ROBIN JE, LUKE EDWARDS & IVAN AGUILAR: Mixing in Untreated Rooms, Winning with ‘Vibe’, and Fast Workflows

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by two notes. Audio Engineering two notes is a leader in the market for load box, cabinet and mic simulators. Gunner, the days of having iso rooms or having to record an amp at ear bleeding volumes to capture that magic tone. The torpedo live reload and studio allow you to crank your amp up as loud as you want, but record silently. Check out www do two-node.com for more info.

Speaker 2 (00:32):

And now your host Eyal Levi. Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast. This is going to be an experiment of an episode in the past on Nail the Mix, we used to do something called the Winner Circle Chat where the person who won the mix poll for that month came on livestream with us to kind of talk through what they did because we think that it's a cool thing to have the people who win the competition share a little bit of what they're doing. Maybe it can help some of their friends out. Maybe it can get more people in the community talking. Maybe it can just make everybody hate each other and everything fall apart and we die. But hopefully it just makes for a better learning environment. However, we stopped doing those because they kind of sucked. It was really hard to get people in time zones way different than our own on a video stream.

(01:29):

It was hard to account for their quality of internet, and it was hard to account for their ability to speak English. And I don't want to sound bad, but when you have a live stream with lots and lots of people going, if the person can't really complete sentences too well, it's a very, very big downer. Whereas on a podcast, you can edit things and take your time. So we're trying to do it now as a podcast and instead of me talking to one winner, we're talking to almost everybody who placed. So we have two polls every month. One of them is the top 20, and then we have 30 through 50. And that's not to say that we only have 50 submissions. We actually tend to get over 500 submissions a month, but we divide them into two categories, like I said, top 20. And then the secondary poll, which is mixes 30 through 50, and me, Joe and Joel pick what we think should be those top 50 out of around 500 mixes and it's pretty grueling.

(02:38):

Then the group votes on what they think is the best anonymously, and we end up with four winners. We end up with first place and second place out of the top 20 poll and then first place and second place out of the secondary poll. And so right now I have three out of the four winners of May, 2000 seventeens. Nailed the mix pole. It was for a sen track called the silver String. We've got Mr. Robin je, Mr. Luke Edwards, Ivan Aguilar. And then one guy decided not to be here because he just couldn't make it, Mr. Andre Bensi. But you're forever in our hot Andre. That said, we're going to take this hour or however long it takes to answer some questions that were submitted by other participants and to just shoot the shit about what it takes to make a winning mix. So first person I want to talk to, just because you've placed so many times in these is Robin. Robin, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (03:43):

I'm doing fine, thanks. How are you doing?

Speaker 2 (03:45):

I'm great. Thank you for being here.

Speaker 3 (03:47):

Awesome.

Speaker 2 (03:47):

I want to address something real quick with you. How many times have you placed in the polls?

Speaker 3 (03:53):

In the polls? I think I placed around 10 to 12 times.

Speaker 2 (03:58):

And how many times have you won?

Speaker 3 (03:59):

It's four top 20 with this one, and I think I won two secondary polls.

Speaker 2 (04:05):

So you've won the top 24 times?

Speaker 3 (04:08):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:08):

Okay. And

Speaker 3 (04:09):

Two secondary. And then I got the producer pick the first month.

Speaker 2 (04:13):

That's right, I remember that. And then the rest of the time, the other 10, 12 times you've placed in the top 20 or whatever, but just didn't win.

Speaker 3 (04:21):

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (04:22):

And then the rest of the time you didn't even make it in

Speaker 3 (04:24):

Exactly. It was like from, I think it was the state champ month from that month I didn't place on any of the polls until this sales month.

Speaker 2 (04:37):

And why do you think that is? I'm wondering, because a lot of guys don't understand why they don't place in the polls, but you're someone who has placed multiple times, one multiple times, but then you had a stretch where you were getting nowhere with these polls. What do you think happened? Did your mixes suck or were you just not focused on them or just not your songs? What do you think it was?

Speaker 3 (05:02):

Yeah, some of my mixes, I didn't feel they were super great, but I like to see that if I don't make it to the polls, the song wasn't for me. I wasn't the right person to do it. I couldn't give it the right vibe, the right feel that it needed. So that's basically what I feel when I don't get to the pole.

Speaker 2 (05:27):

And how much do you think about it once you don't make it in?

Speaker 3 (05:32):

Well, I like to go through the top 20 to kind of see and to kind of hear when you're going through the top 20 compared to your mix, you can kind of hear the vibe and the sound that the song needed. And sometimes when I compare, I can notice that my mix was way different.

Speaker 2 (05:56):

So maybe you just got the totally wrong vibe or something.

Speaker 3 (05:59):

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (06:00):

Vibe is important. And Ivan, is this your first time placing?

Speaker 4 (06:04):

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (06:04):

And you've been with us for quite a while.

Speaker 4 (06:06):

Yes.

Speaker 2 (06:07):

And so let me ask you this, what did you do differently this month than other months? Did you do anything differently?

Speaker 4 (06:14):

No, I didn't. I just mixed it the way I usually would and this time I placed.

Speaker 2 (06:20):

So there's nothing that, there's no change to the workflow, it's just after months and months of mixing your mix finally placed. Exactly. And what about you, Luke? Have you ever placed before?

Speaker 5 (06:34):

Yeah, I actually came second in the top 20 for the machine head month.

Speaker 2 (06:38):

That's right.

Speaker 5 (06:39):

And I think I placed another time in the top 20. I can't remember which month it was for. And I think, yeah, for the date I remember month I was in the secondary poll.

Speaker 2 (06:50):

Okay. So you've been, you've placed in the polls four times it sounds like, and then won something twice?

Speaker 5 (06:58):

Yes. Yes, you're right.

Speaker 2 (06:59):

Okay. That's a pretty good record. That's actually a really good record. Thanks. I'll ask you the same thing here. Did you do anything differently

Speaker 5 (07:08):

Than

Speaker 2 (07:09):

You normally would?

Speaker 5 (07:09):

I think I literally do something different every single month. I like to experiment and try things. I think I've tried a little something from every single mixer that I've seen every month, just tips and tricks that they suggest and I try it out and if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. And yeah, I also pay very close attention to the polls and try and judge and reference to Myrek where was I lacking in that sort of sense? And I use that to progress in the months to come. And I don't get super bummed out about it if I don't place, because to be honest, this whole mixing thing is actually quite subjective. A lot of people have different approaches and different things that they enjoy. So it's not like my mix is the best and you cannot disagree. It's like I really like this mix and maybe next month I'll like a different style. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (08:06):

Absolutely. Well, that's one thing that I wish that more people would take to heart, that it is purely subjective. And when we pick our top 50 or whatever it is subjective, it's what we like the best. And so

Speaker 5 (08:21):

Some

Speaker 2 (08:21):

People disagree with us, but this is not something that's set in stone, as in we picked these mixes, so they're the best. We picked those mixes, they were our favorites. And that's very, very different than favorite versus best is two completely different things. Totally.

Speaker 5 (08:39):

There

Speaker 2 (08:39):

Kind of almost is no best when it comes to this stuff. But I do think that what Robin said is super important, which is that when he didn't win, oftentimes he would analyze the mixed poll and realize that his submission sounded completely different than the winners. Not necessarily better or worse, just completely different. And in that it just emphasizes how important it is to understand the vibe of what it is that you're mixing. And it's not just about everything finding its own space frequency wise, but also has a lot to do with how much do you actually feel the song and portray it. So I have a question here from Mr. Jack Hartley. I'm going to ask it to you first. Ivan, then Robin, then Luke. So Ivan, this is from Jack Hartley, which is how do you typically approach mixing and nail the mix track? Do you aim to reinvent the wheel and try something new each month? Or do you stick to your tried and test workflow and go for results? You want to hear also what's been the most challenging month of nail the mix for you so far and why? And what's been the most important thing you've learned from taking part in nail the mix?

Speaker 4 (09:57):

First thing, thanks Jack for the question. So I don't really do anything different. I just import the stems, I take a quick look at them and I just start mixing. And I do basically the same I would with a mix for a client or a mix for my band. What was the second part of question? Sorry?

Speaker 2 (10:19):

What's been the most challenging month of now, the mix for you so far and why? That

Speaker 4 (10:23):

Would probably be the machine head month, which is the one I joined because of the track count basically. And that it was my first month mixing and I should really mix it again just to see how much I've improved.

Speaker 2 (10:40):

Was that your first time mixing ever?

Speaker 4 (10:43):

No, I had been mixing for three or four months, but nothing serious.

Speaker 2 (10:49):

So this was your first time mixing with a deadline on a crazy session with a crazy track count and competition with a bunch of other people who were also mixing? Yeah,

Speaker 4 (11:02):

Exactly. Got

Speaker 2 (11:03):

It. And yeah. And then third part of the question, what's the single most important thing you've learned from taking part in now the mix?

Speaker 4 (11:10):

Less is more. At least for me, I try to keep stuff really, really simple and I try to guide myself with my ears.

Speaker 2 (11:18):

Isn't it interesting that most of the best mixers have pretty small chains to their plugins?

Speaker 4 (11:27):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (11:27):

I mean not always. Sometimes they can get some pretty lengthy ones going, but for the most part they use as few tools as possible as well as possible. And so Robin, how do you typically approach mixing a nail to mix track? Do you aim to reinvent the wheel or try something new each month or do you stick to tried and true test workflow?

Speaker 3 (11:49):

Well, I have a set of templates that I use all the time and sometimes I just know what the song needs and then I know which template I will use and I can see how it sounds and I can change some samples and maybe do some small things. I could go and do some experimenting, but I like to mix as fast as possible just to move on and not think too much about it.

Speaker 2 (12:19):

I think that if people watch the month when Billy Decker came on or have watched any month where Joel mixes, there's a lot to be said for mixing very, very fast. And also I want to point out that a lot of the guys who have come on to do the live mixes on now, the mix, the only reason that it took six hours is because they were talking the whole time. In reality, a lot of those mixes would've been done in two hours. So almost all the guys that we have on mix really fast. It's just if we were to say don't talk, don't explain what you're doing, just go for it. I think it would be pretty crazy.

Speaker 3 (12:57):

Yeah, I like to, after the deck a month, I really went into my templates and try to improve them to make them more time efficient. My templates are like, some are for just import live stuff. I have a template I used for Salesing that I just imported the live drums and then some samples than I were done. But some of my templates are like they requires a little bit more time because I have to print samples and bounds and change that and change that and it can kind of take up to 20 minutes and that's kind of too long just to get the samples going, in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (13:42):

I love that. That's too long because even a few years ago that would've been considered really fast.

Speaker 3 (13:51):

I want to step up my game so I can be as fast a sticker because that was insane.

Speaker 2 (13:57):

And again, keep in mind that he was talking. So I got to watch, whenever we do nail the mix, we always show up a day or two in advance to set up and test the stuff and all that. While we were setting up the cameras and our gear, he just was like, fuck it, I'm going to mix some songs. So I got to watch him mix songs from start to finish and it was literally like 30, 45 minutes and he's done. And it sounds incredible.

Speaker 5 (14:27):

That's insane.

Speaker 2 (14:28):

It's insane because you hear how good the result is.

Speaker 3 (14:30):

I know. Yeah. My goal is to him for I can bring out the first mix to a client within one to two hours if it just clicks with my template. But if it doesn't, I have to make tweaks and then it can take up to three, four hours before they first mix.

Speaker 2 (14:48):

That's still pretty fast. Robin and Luke, what's been your most challenging month of now the mix so far?

Speaker 5 (14:56):

Well, I think my most challenging month was the first one. It was the one with Neck Deep. That was the first month where I really started mixing. Before that, I was just doing basic stuff. If I had an idea I would record myself playing guitar. But this was the first month that I actually was mixing a professional band with really well recorded tracks and all that stuff. And I kind of didn't know what I was doing to be honest. I was just kind of slapping things together and seeing what would happen. And I actually ended up running out of time and I didn't submit that month, but that was a good learning curve for me. I learned to work faster, to go with my gut, more to trust my decisions, and then also referencing and just taking advice from different people, what they liked, what they didn't like and that sort of thing. I think my second month was definitely the good Jira month, which was actually quite recently. I struggled with that quite hectically if I'm honest. But yeah, it was still a good learning experience.

Speaker 2 (15:56):

What was tough about it?

Speaker 5 (15:57):

Well, just for me personally, I was struggling to get the low end, right? Because when I listened to all the people in the top 20 there, low end was just crushing and it was sounding great and it was just so mixed well with all the other instruments. And it wasn't like it was loud, but it wasn't overbearing and I struggled to get that balance.

Speaker 2 (16:16):

Low end is oftentimes one of the absolute hardest things

Speaker 5 (16:20):

To get right? Oh yeah. Yes, totally. Especially in metal.

Speaker 2 (16:25):

Well, yeah, definitely in metal. So Ivan, here's one from Joseph, which is what kind of room are you mixing in? Do you have any sort of treatment?

Speaker 4 (16:34):

No, I'm mixing in my bedroom, actually. Same

Speaker 2 (16:38):

Now. Okay, so three dudes mixing in bedrooms, but what does that mean? Because I've seen all kinds of different bedrooms. Do you guys have treatment? Are you mixing in headphones? Are you using monitors? What's up?

Speaker 4 (16:51):

Well, I'm using just some J-B-L-L-S-R three oh fives, no treatment, no sub, no anything.

Speaker 2 (16:59):

And are those, I'm sorry, are those monitors or headphones?

Speaker 5 (17:02):

Yes, monitors.

Speaker 2 (17:03):

Okay. What about you Luke?

Speaker 5 (17:05):

Yeah, I have zero treatment. I do have a sub though, which I've brought in a couple of months ago. It's like your basic home theater service, not even that good like Andrew Wades, but it really, really, really changed my life.

Speaker 2 (17:20):

And her wage is a basic home theater sub too.

Speaker 5 (17:22):

Yeah, but his is a little bit more expensive. Mine's like a ghetto sub, but it really does the job. If I can say one thing to anyone listening to this is you seriously need to listen to Joel and everyone and just get a sub because it really actually helps you so much just perceive what's going on down there. It made my mixes improve by at least 50%.

Speaker 2 (17:49):

I've always liked mixing with a sub. I know some people don't use one and more power to them, but in my opinion, they're getting good mixes despite not having a sub, not because they don't have a sub.

Speaker 3 (18:02):

What

Speaker 2 (18:03):

About you Robin? Well,

Speaker 3 (18:04):

I'm in a room with no treatment, but I use monitors, but it's a Swedish maid and my headphones are the focal spare pro. And I kind of like to start with mixing with the headphones and start to reference in the monitors because I like to use the headphones. I can get my low and right in my headphones because I trust them that much because I've used them a long time. And if I hear a tight low end, then I know it's tight in my mix and I like to walk around the room to hear the low end sweet spots and I can take a mix that has cereal, low end, and here in those sweet spots that it has no low end, then I know and I can check with my mix. And if it has, then I know it has.

Speaker 2 (18:55):

So we always tell people not to mix in headphones. However, you can mix in headphones if you do it right. And one of the keys a lot. Yes, exactly. One of the keys if you're going to mix

Speaker 5 (19:08):

Or if your name's Robin.

Speaker 2 (19:09):

Well, he references a lot. I mean if you're going to mix in headphones, you need to reference your reference game has got to be on point.

(19:18):

You can't just mix in headphones. I mean I don't suggest you do it all, but some people just do it anyways. And they do. Hey man, Ali does too. And his mixes sound great. And I know that Will Putney has also mixed some great sounding records and headphones. I think that it's one of these things where it's just not ideal. It's not the best way to do it, but proof is done in pudding. Done, yes, it can definitely be done, but the thing that all of those guys have in common is they have great reference material. And if you hear what Robin is saying that he still does walk around the room with speakers and check for the low end. So take that to heart guys that are listening. I don't want you listeners to be like, see they use headphones and it's fine. I can just use any headphones and not work on my referencing or anything and it'll be fine. They said it's fine.

Speaker 3 (20:13):

Yeah, and you kind of need to have the right headphones as well.

Speaker 2 (20:18):

Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (20:19):

I would never be able to mix in another pair of headphones than the focals.

Speaker 2 (20:23):

Those are pretty good.

Speaker 3 (20:24):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (20:24):

I do like them

Speaker 3 (20:25):

And they're very honest. So if you listen to a mix and it sucks, then it sucks.

Speaker 2 (20:34):

So Ivan, what was a month where you thought you had a killer mix but you didn't make it to the top 20? And then when you went back and re-listened to your mix that didn't make it, what do you think caused it not to be chosen?

Speaker 4 (20:51):

Well, I think that would be the periphery month. I thought I had an awesome mix. I was going to win the poll for sure. But

Speaker 2 (21:01):

You just knew that you had it.

Speaker 4 (21:03):

Yeah, and then the next week I just listened back to it and it was horrible. Yes, my low end was out of control. There were no highs. It sounded really, really, really muddy. So yeah,

Speaker 5 (21:19):

I know that feeling.

Speaker 2 (21:21):

Have you done that too, Luke, where you are like, yeah, going to, I got this in the bag, I'm going to win. And then it's like you don't even place and you're like, what the fuck? And then a week later you listen and you're like, damn, my mix sucks.

Speaker 5 (21:36):

Exactly what's happened to me and more than once.

Speaker 2 (21:40):

Well, okay, so what's one month where that happened?

Speaker 5 (21:43):

That was the Chelsea GR month actually. I was convinced that I was going to do really well and I didn't. And then I listened to the mixed back a few weeks later and my kick low end, which was crazy. It was out of whack. I dunno why I boosted the low end so much on that, a ton of other things. But yeah, that was just one example.

Speaker 2 (22:08):

Do you remember what a few of the other things were?

Speaker 5 (22:10):

You mean about the mix of that month that I did wrong?

Speaker 2 (22:13):

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (22:14):

Well, I think it was just comparing to the other mixes and I guess the vibe of the song. It wasn't as blended. There wasn't balanced, well, it wasn't a mix, it was just kind of instruments in space. I found that for this track it needed to be really well glued together, one big machine moving forward. And I didn't really accomplish that for that month.

Speaker 2 (22:38):

And why do you think it is that at the time you thought that it was amazing and you couldn't hear that it was disjointed sounding?

Speaker 5 (22:48):

I guess I just mixed it the way I like to hear songs. I like to have the kick hit you in the chest really hard and I like the snare drum to be slamming, have a good crack. And I did all that stuff that I really enjoy and I was digging the mix and I referenced it a lot. Even I think Robin actually gave me a courtesy crit and he also digged it. And then when we submitted and the results came out, I found out in place. It was kind of disappointing, but at a later point I could actually understand when comparing to everyone else's why I didn't make it. And it was the subjective thing. It wasn't really like you were wrong, it was just like you can improve here, here, here and here

Speaker 2 (23:32):

Sometimes. One thing I've noticed that a lot of the students who submit do, which I think is wrong, is that they work on the mix for too long and they work on it too long

(23:46):

Every day. And then also too loud. And so here's a four instance. We had one of our admins, Rodney, he came to the mix and he sat there and Bo listens to, he monitors very quietly, you're supposed to, we always say to, and Rodney was blown away by how quiet, quiet really is. He's never been in a room with actual quiet mixing the kind that we tell people to do. So when he heard us talk about mixing quietly in the past, his version of what quietly meant was way louder than what we meant. And so if a lot of people are doing that and are mixing too loud for too long, their perception of what their mix sounds like is gone. So their opinion is not based on reality anymore. And I think that lots of the students are doing this to themselves without even realizing that they're doing this to themselves. And so then once they get a break for a week or two or three, then they can finally hear the mix for what it actually is. So here's one for you Robin. This is from Tom Farrin, which is how often, if ever, do you use side chain or parallel compression?

Speaker 5 (25:01):

Oh, this guy. The king of parallel compression.

Speaker 3 (25:05):

So parallel compression, I had different periods when I did different things with parallel compression like a year back from now. I kind of used parallel compression on each shell drum. I used one for snare, I used one for Tom, I used one for the kick and I just did because I like to have that natural compression. You can slam them without it noticing too much. And side chaining, I love to side chain my kick to the base so it kind of ducks. And you get that if you do it right, you kind of get a more, if you have a live kick, you can kind of get that consistent sound.

Speaker 2 (25:54):

You

Speaker 3 (25:54):

Get that kind of when the bay ducks, you get it more tight kick sound. So it kind of gets that consistent. I like to call it the Joey kick. It just stays through and kicks in the face every time it comes like yeah,

Speaker 2 (26:11):

That ultra consistent

Speaker 3 (26:12):

Low end. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (26:14):

So

Speaker 3 (26:15):

I like to do that with side shading, but that's the only siding shading I do.

Speaker 2 (26:20):

You actually made a video about parallel compression

Speaker 3 (26:24):

And that's how I like to use parallel compression nowadays, just to use one sustained parallel compression and then one master to slam the whole kit together.

Speaker 2 (26:37):

So if you guys want to see the video that he made on parallel compression, just look in the show notes for this episode and we're linking it. It's really good. Here's one and this one's for you Luke. This is from Patrizio, Jesus, which is what do you guys do for a living? If you don't mind me asking, also, where does music fall in your lives? Is this mostly recreational or do you all have professional goals? And we'll start with you, Luke.

Speaker 5 (27:03):

Okay. My day job is actually, I'm a technical customer support associates. I work for Amazon Web Services right now. So yeah, I mainly do it and computer stuff, if you can dumb it down to that. And yeah, music is my main passion in life really. It's always been a passion project. I'm in two bands at the moment and I'm actually busy recording an album for each of them at the moment. And it's going pretty well. I don't do music as a full-time job or even part-time. It's mainly for the passion of it. And I mean if it one day gets to the stage where people are coming to me, I start getting clients and charging for it and it becomes a sustainable job, then I'll totally do it. I mean, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would be doing what I love for money. So yeah, that's where I'm at.

Speaker 2 (28:00):

And what about you, Ivan?

Speaker 4 (28:01):

Well, I'm only 19, so I just had my last exam yesterday for, I'm doing a programming course. I'm trying to do mixing for a living, but I still have a long way to go.

Speaker 3 (28:16):

And Robin, I'm a student, but I study over the internet, so I'm basically home all day being able to prove in my mixing and well, my main income is from school and then I get to

Speaker 2 (28:35):

Get Wait, your main income is from school?

Speaker 3 (28:36):

Yeah. Your school pays your money. Yeah, it's like fucking,

Speaker 4 (28:42):

I want to go to that school.

Speaker 5 (28:44):

Yeah, me

Speaker 4 (28:44):

Too, man. Jesus.

Speaker 3 (28:46):

Yeah. If you want to explain this, you get a certain amount of money.

Speaker 5 (28:51):

Oh, like an allowance?

Speaker 3 (28:53):

Yeah, exactly. I'm studying at the university and I can only get money for a certain amount of weeks. I think it's 240 weeks. Some you can get money for. And then I have a small student loan to kind of pay off things and just to make me go by. But the worst part is during the summers that I don't get any money at all. So then I try to get as much mixing jobs as possible so I can make it through the summers and I mix. Well not, but if you would take it to a job scenario RO maybe 25%,

Speaker 2 (29:32):

But you're definitely going for a hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (29:35):

Yeah, totally. I'm starting to getting bigger clients and so yeah, it's going better. Congratulations. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (29:43):

It's only a matter of time. Here's a question and we can start with you Robinson. We're already talking to you from Bruno Rio, which is what made you decide to start recording and mixing Any memorable moment that you want to share as a lesson for those starting out? Thanks and congrats.

Speaker 3 (30:01):

Oh, it was actually during my high school days, my teacher, I went to a special forums program that had it, that had music and video, but I chose the more music path and he kind of forced me into, he wanted someone to be more involved into recording. And so me and my friends start to record and then I had to mix them and I felt it was so fun so I can just start it. And then we had a band together, so we had that as a final school project. So that was my first real mixing experience and that's how it started. And from there it just grew more and more, but didn't go serious until around the podcast started and one year after that the podcast started, I started to really take it more serious. I noticed I was getting much better.

Speaker 2 (31:14):

So next question, Ivan. This one's from John Gansler, which is what is it that you find the most difficult to overcome in your mixes?

Speaker 4 (31:23):

Probably spending too much time.

Speaker 2 (31:26):

That's a good one.

Speaker 4 (31:27):

Now I am spending much little time with my mixes. I used to mix for three or four days.

Speaker 5 (31:36):

Same. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (31:37):

Just for a song. Yeah, a lot. And now I've pretty much boiled it down to one or two hours.

Speaker 5 (31:43):

Nice.

Speaker 4 (31:44):

Yeah, I think that's the main thing. Yeah, that's

Speaker 2 (31:47):

Great. What about you Luke? Yeah,

Speaker 5 (31:49):

I'm the same. I used to spend freaking days, weeks on a mix until I was sick to death of that song. But now I've made my workflow much faster using, I've only recently started using the whole template vibe and that sort of thing. And yeah, I spend about the same as Vin, like an hour, two hours on a song in total. And then the rest of the time it's just referencing or listening on different systems, maybe some automation tweaks if I find something's a bit spiky on a different set of speakers or yeah, that kind of thing. That's

Speaker 2 (32:24):

Great. Robin, here's one from Jake La Roche, which is when mixing guitars, what do you focus on the most? Is it the relationship with bass, the overall tone, vocal support or rhythm power? Those are just some ideas. Thanks guys.

Speaker 3 (32:37):

Well, guitars is the most fastest part for me. I just kind of load up tone and then I do my usual mixing and then I leave it from there. And then the way I don't know, but the way I mix things kind just seems to gel together well, even though I use a lot of additive stuff as of late. So I kind of like to add more and more. And then I don't catalog frequencies. Maybe if it's too much mid range or if vocals are clashing with the guitars or the overheads. I kind like to just cut off some of the three K, but that's basically it. I don't think too much of it. So kind just go with the flow.

Speaker 2 (33:30):

Moral of the story is don't overthink things. Trust

Speaker 3 (33:32):

Your gut. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (33:34):

Yeah, I mean I feel like that's been a consistent theme with everything we've been talking about, which is spending less time mixing, getting through things quickly, making decisions and don't overthink things that will lead to better mixes.

Speaker 5 (33:48):

Yes, that's been my biggest lesson throughout nail the mix is just moving forward and trusting your gut.

Speaker 2 (33:54):

It's good to learn how to do that. I feel like too many times guys find it easy to question themselves and listen over and over and over and they just get into this weird spiral of negativity and the mixes don't get better. From that point on, all that happens is they start to sound weirder and weirder and weirder. Luke, here's a question for you from John Garcia. Was there anything in B'S live mix that really surprised you? For instance, how differently he solved the problem or got a sound?

Speaker 5 (34:24):

Yeah, definitely. I found it's so interesting how many parallel chains he had and when he was mixing the drums, it actually made sense to me in the end why he would do that. Then you can fine tune every single aspect of your drum tone with just a bunch of faders and he pretty much got the sound he was after really quickly and it was a great sounding mix altogether. That's what really surprised me is just how many different parallel chains you had and that sort of mixing style. I already liked it.

Speaker 2 (34:54):

Do you have anything to add to that, Ivan?

Speaker 4 (34:55):

No, I think pretty

Speaker 3 (34:57):

Much the same. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:58):

Oh you Robin.

Speaker 3 (34:59):

I was very impressed by when he said he basically replaced all the drums.

Speaker 2 (35:05):

That surprised me too.

Speaker 3 (35:07):

Yeah, I was like, when I referenced the mix when I was mixing it, I was like, damn, you got those drums sound really good? How did it do it? And then in live mix he was like, yeah, but I decided just to scratch that. And

Speaker 5 (35:22):

You're kind of like, ah.

Speaker 3 (35:24):

Well yeah,

Speaker 2 (35:24):

But at the same time they don't

Speaker 5 (35:26):

Sound fake. No, they don't. Sounds natural.

Speaker 2 (35:28):

Yeah, they sound great. They just sound really good. So to me what's really impressive is that he got them sounding that good and natural and flowy was such a good vibe, a hundred percent replaced. If you had asked me before that day, do I think that these are a hundred percent, 50% or 0% replaced? I would've said 25 to 30%. I would say it's mainly natural, but with some samples for reinforcement, but not a hundred percent

Speaker 4 (35:59):

For sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:00):

Holy shit.

Speaker 3 (36:01):

Yeah. Kind of like the neck deep month with Wade where he used samples just to lift up the lounge live

Speaker 2 (36:09):

Runs. Yeah, that's what I thought it was like. And it just goes to show that there's no right or wrong when it comes to using a tool like samples. It's all in how you use it. Samples doesn't mean that your drums have to sound fake or a machine gun or drums in space. That's just a bad use of samples. Just like when you tune vocals, it doesn't mean that it has to sound like Cher or T. It doesn't have to sound that way. It can sound that way, but it doesn't have to sound that way. It's all in how you use it. And so when people start to criticize the tools, it weirds me out. Like the tools completely independent of the use for it. You don't judge an inanimate object like a tool judge, the person using it.

Speaker 5 (36:56):

If there's anything I hate in this world, it's like this elitist attitude towards anything like mixing. And

Speaker 4 (37:03):

It's

Speaker 5 (37:03):

Like, you can't do this. That's not right. You're going to go to mixing jail. And it's like, what dude? I'm mixing a song

Speaker 3 (37:16):

And when people clashing down on samples, I say a big producer doesn't use them. Just look at CLA.

Speaker 2 (37:24):

He

Speaker 3 (37:24):

Uses samples and I bet you'll listened to some for one or anything else. He's done. Green Day for example.

Speaker 5 (37:33):

Oh, green Day. Oh my word.

Speaker 3 (37:35):

All on the American Idiot album, they kick to say one shot. So I didn't actually know that. I

Speaker 4 (37:40):

Didn't know

Speaker 3 (37:41):

That. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (37:41):

There you go. I mean, there you go. It's all in the hands of the user.

Speaker 4 (37:46):

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (37:48):

The users who determines if something is good or bad, not the tool itself. The tool is just a tool. But yeah, there's a lot of weird elitism in a lot of audio groups and audio in general and you know that we try to avoid that shit in our little neck of the internet. I fucking hate that stuff.

Speaker 3 (38:10):

Yeah, it's an endless discussion that will never

Speaker 2 (38:13):

End. Exactly. Just go in circles eating its own tail and for what are people even really arguing? Most of the time the people arguing don't know what the fuck they're doing when it comes to mixing, you

Speaker 5 (38:25):

Listen to one of their mixes. Yes.

Speaker 2 (38:27):

And that's the thing that, what the hell? Yeah. Well that's sometimes why when I used to engage these people, I don't anymore. I haven't for a while. I'd be like, alright, I want to hear your mix.

Speaker 5 (38:39):

Send me a mix tape fem.

Speaker 2 (38:40):

Yeah. Before I listen to another word that you're going to say about samples or not samples, I want to hear your best sounding natural drum mix. And if you don't have one, shut the fuck up. And to the people who are all about tube amps are so much better than Kempers or whatever.

Speaker 4 (38:58):

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:59):

And hey man, I love tube amps. I've got some great tube amps of court and I grew up on those. They're fantastic. However, the Kempers also fantastic and I find that most guys who talk shit have never even used a tube amp in their life. They wouldn't know how to mic up a cabinet if it landed on their fucking mom. So that's why it's just pointless to argue with these people online. And that's why we just totally don't even allow that stuff on our groups or in our community. It's just pointless and negative. And we prefer that if someone's going to have a really strong opinion, they better be able to back it up.

Speaker 5 (39:37):

I love our community.

Speaker 2 (39:38):

Yeah, community's great. Okay, from Dominic Koenig, Robin, how much time do you spend on listening to rough tracks before you start mixing? Do you take notes while doing it? How do you feel or approach gut mixing and how do you imply the gut mixing to your template workflow?

Speaker 3 (39:56):

I never listen to rough tracks. I just import 'em and see how it sounds in my

Speaker 2 (40:00):

Template. Boom. What's the right, what's the point of even listening to the rough tracks?

Speaker 3 (40:03):

Yeah. Well, I don't know. I don't get a vibe from listening to rough tracks. If I listen to a clean di, I can't tell how it's going to sit in mix.

Speaker 5 (40:16):

Okay. I'm a little different to you guys when the stems are released for the month. The first thing I do is download them. And I listen to every single, well, not every single track, but I like listening to the Diaz. I can actually hear the quality, how much she it has and how I also listen to the snare drum and all the different mics. And I like listening to how it is dry before I actually dive into all the EQ and compression samples and all that stuff. But yeah, that's just a freak.

Speaker 3 (40:44):

Yeah. I really enjoyed listening to the drum tracks from

Speaker 5 (40:48):

Dick. Yeah, those are amazing.

Speaker 3 (40:49):

Those were really amazed about how they sounded. I was like, oh man, this sounds nothing like rock

Speaker 2 (40:56):

Tracks. Yeah. The standards in Nashville are unbelievable. Well, here's thing I kind of fall in between where you guys are. I completely understand from the aspect of speed mixing to where in all reality you really don't need to listen to the raw tracks. There's really no point. Just bring them in and if there's a problem, deal with the problem once the settings are on, because that's what you hear, that's what the listener hears. They hear a mix plenty of times where you'll hear a problem in a raw track and then you throw an amp on it or something. You throw a mix on it and the problem's gone. However, just because I like to know how good things are or sometimes check out raw tracks just because I want to hear what someone's room sounds like or something. Or I want to hear if they submitted a shitty sounding di. Or in the case of Andrew Wade, I know that his di are some of the best I've ever heard.

Speaker 5 (41:57):

I can agree on that

Speaker 2 (41:57):

One. So I'll always check out his di

Speaker 5 (41:59):

Yes.

Speaker 2 (42:00):

Yeah, I'll always check out his di just because it's so good sounding. I just want to hear it. That's all. I just want to hear it. Andrew

Speaker 5 (42:07):

Wade's di sound like liquid six. They do.

Speaker 2 (42:11):

I don't understand why they sound that good, but they really do sound great.

Speaker 3 (42:15):

Got that weight touch.

Speaker 2 (42:16):

Yeah, which is a great touch. But the thing is, and I got to say that there's been plenty of times where I get a raw track and I hear it and I'm like, oh, it sounds like shit. And then I watch somebody else mix it and make it sound incredible. And that's why I've kind of decided that I don't really listen to them too much because I've seen too many mixers take things that I thought sounded bad and made it sound really, really good.

Speaker 5 (42:42):

Yeah, true that

Speaker 2 (42:43):

To where I'm with Robin. I'm with Robin on it. Just put the settings on it. Go from there. But sometimes curiosity gets the better of me. So first of all, congrats to you guys and to our missing winner, Andre Bei for having the balls to submit month after month and for winning. Thank you guys for being a part of our community. It means the world to us. And do you guys have any last words before we kill you? How about you Luke? I'd like to thank the family.

Speaker 5 (43:17):

Yeah. Thanks fam. No, I love this community so much and I, I've just learned so much from the beginning and I will pretty much never, I'll never unsubscribe from your M because it's just the stuff here gets you, you just can't get anywhere else, I think. And for the price, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (43:36):

Well, thanks for being a part of it. Anything else you guys want to add any messages to the listeners or just go fuck themselves and die

Speaker 3 (43:45):

BURM or be

Speaker 1 (43:47):

Nothing? That's right. Yo. The Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast is brought to you by two notes. Audio Engineering two notes is a leader in the market for load box cabinet and Mike simulators. Gunner the days of having iso rooms or having to record an amp at ear bleeding volumes to capture that magic tone, the torpedo Live reload and studio allow you to crank your amp up as loud as you want, but record silently. Check out www.two-notes.com for more info. To ask us questions, make suggestions and interact. Visit nail the mix.com/podcast and subscribe today.