Author: Finn McKenty

Mike Mowery is the president and managing partner of Outer Loop Management, a company he co-founded in 2004. He has managed a number of influential artists, including Periphery and We Came As Romans. A constant creator in the music business space, Mowery also founded the Jabberjaw podcast network and co-hosts the Managemental podcast with industry veteran Bill “Blasco” Skeen.

In This Episode

Veteran artist manager Mike Mowery joins the podcast for a super real discussion about the most important, and often trickiest, part of the music business: relationships. He and Eyal get into why the old saying “never burn a bridge” isn’t always realistic and how navigating conflicting interests is just part of the game. They explore the difference between fighting over one slice of pizza and adopting an abundance mindset where everyone can get their own pie. The conversation offers some seriously practical advice for producers on how to network effectively at events like the URM Summit, whether you’re an introvert or an extrovert. They break down how to approach your heroes without being an annoying “punisher,” the right way to follow up after an event, and why the connections you make with your peers are often the ones that will matter most in the long run.

Timestamps

• [8:12] The reality of “burning bridges” in the music industry
• [9:53] Living in the “gray area” and controlling what you can control
• [13:18] The “fighting over a slice of pizza” analogy for competition vs. abundance
• [17:52] Losing relationships is sometimes an unavoidable part of progress
• [19:54] How close friends in the industry can get “murderously angry” and still be cool
• [23:17] Why “it’s just business” can be a frustrating excuse
• [28:16] Being proactive when you see a relationship issue developing
• [31:53] Why an event like the URM Summit is full of serious, dedicated people
• [34:00] Advice for both introverts and extroverts on networking
• [35:40] How to avoid being the annoying “convention punisher”
• [40:46] Blasco at the Summit vs. Blasco at NAMM: understanding context
• [44:35] Why talking to fellow attendees is just as important as talking to instructors
• [47:35] The art of the follow-up: When and how to reach out after an event
• [50:50] The “three-times” rule for following up and when to stop
• [53:10] A real-world example of persistence: Booking Jens Bogren for Nail The Mix
• [59:12] Using unconventional methods (like Instagram DMs) to make contact
• [1:00:59] Why asking to “buy someone lunch” is often a bad networking move
• [1:03:52] The difference between being busy and being productive
• [1:07:51] Why relationships alone aren’t enough; you still have to deliver value

Jasen Rauch is a guitarist, songwriter, and producer who has navigated nearly every corner of the music industry. He’s currently the guitarist for the massive rock band Breaking Benjamin, a role he’s held since 2014. Before that, he was a founding member and key songwriter for the band Red from 2004-2009. His journey began in the early 2000s as a Nashville studio intern, where a powerful work ethic helped him move up the ladder. His knack for songwriting soon led to a publishing deal and a wide range of production work with artists like Korn’s Brian “Head” Welch, Pillar, and Fireflight, and even film score collaborations.

In This Episode

Jasen Rauch breaks down his incredible journey from scrubbing toilets at a Nashville studio to playing guitar in one of the world’s biggest rock bands. This episode is packed with real-world wisdom about what it *actually* takes to build a sustainable career in music. Jasen gets into the nitty-gritty of being a producer, explaining his role as a “translator” between the band and the label and sharing killer strategies for decoding A&R feedback to keep projects moving forward. He makes a powerful case for why work ethic, intense preparation, and solid people skills will always get you further than raw talent alone. He also offers some seriously grounded advice on balancing the demands of touring and studio work with family life, and why the path to success is rarely a straight line. It’s a masterclass in versatility and the professional mindset required to thrive.

Timestamps

• [5:43] The value of humility, work ethic, and starting from the bottom
• [8:51] The potential downsides of formal recording schools
• [11:00] The “arrested development” of professional touring musicians
• [16:27] Why being a “great hang” is more important than being the most skilled crew member
• [19:42] How picking up a simple piece of trash led to a huge opportunity
• [25:29] The producer’s role as an interface between the band and the label
• [28:31] A case study in decoding what an A&R guy *really* wants
• [35:08] How Jasen’s songwriting skills led him to join Breaking Benjamin
• [41:53] His process for starting the songwriting process with a new artist
• [44:10] Navigating bands who are resistant to outside writers
• [49:15] Juggling a high-level career and family life by navigating “seasons”
• [50:14] Why you should almost never say “no” early in your career
• [58:26] Thinking of creativity as a muscle and studying other creators’ work
• [1:04:57] Why preparation is the most critical part of production
• [1:07:09] The producer’s job is often more reactionary than proactive
• [1:12:33] The character attributes of a successful, professional band
• [1:17:15] Advice for taking your career from the bedroom to the big stage
• [1:22:23] The production process behind the Love and Death record

Producer, mastering engineer, author, and podcaster Jesse Cannon has a seriously diverse discography, having worked in various capacities with artists like The Cure, Animal Collective, The Misfits, Dillinger Escape Plan, Brand New, and NOFX. He’s also the author of the popular music business book Get More Fans and Processing Creativity, and hosts the podcasts Off The Record and Noise Creators.

In This Episode

Jesse Cannon drops by for a wide-ranging chat that’s all about the psychology and mindset required for a long-term career in audio. Using Ross Robinson’s work with Korn as a jumping-off point, Jesse explains why capturing pure emotion often means sacrificing technical perfection, and how to know when that trade-off is worth it. He dives deep into the art of handling client feedback, explaining how to differentiate between “good faith” and “bad faith” arguments and why developing a toxic attitude towards mix notes will absolutely destroy your career. This isn’t just about stroking egos; it’s about learning to see limitations as creative tools. Jesse also shares some of his personal productivity hacks for juggling a massive workload, from time management philosophies and using a “failure list” for motivation to finding creative inspiration in completely unrelated fields like film sound and the workflow of a high-efficiency restaurant kitchen. This is a must-listen for anyone looking to level up their client relations and personal effectiveness.

Products Mentioned

• Soundtoys Decapitator
• Soundtoys Kramer Master Tape
• Focusrite Scarlett
• TextExpander
• David Allen – Getting Things Done
• Sonos
• Rode NTG4 Shotgun Mic
• Sound Devices Field Recorders
• Zoom Field Recorders
• Dropbox

Timestamps

• [5:35] Ross Robinson’s production philosophy and compensating for a band’s weaknesses
• [8:58] The “divergent stream” concept for dealing with artists
• [11:51] How even technically proficient bands like Muse get sloppy during emotional moments
• [14:28] Taking limitations and client feedback as a creative tool
• [16:22] Why a toxic attitude towards feedback will ruin your career
• [18:12] The psychology of pointing the finger inward vs. outward
• [20:45] Why getting mad at clients for not knowing engineering terms is dumb
• [22:24] Differentiating between “good faith” and “bad faith” client arguments
• [25:50] The pros and cons of hourly vs. all-in budgets
• [31:52] Jesse’s new audio documentary podcast series for Atlantic Records
• [36:33] Time management tips for juggling multiple projects
• [37:25] Using tools like TextExpander to save time
• [40:17] Using a “failure list” to motivate self-improvement
• [42:38] Using New Jersey’s one-party consent law to record landlords
• [47:58] Why people around you might make fun of your self-improvement journey
• [54:30] How “Chance favors the connected mind” and finding inspiration everywhere
• [57:21] How the efficiency of a restaurant kitchen can improve studio workflow
• [1:00:14] Using a shotgun mic from a film kit on a drum kit
• [1:10:05] Why networking plays out in the long term, not the short term
• [1:17:17] The ultimate goal: making great art (and money) with your friends

This episode features producer Machine and Chris Adler. Machine is a producer, engineer, and mixer known for his work with Lamb of God, Clutch, Fall Out Boy, and Mindless Self Indulgence, and for mentoring top producers like Will Putney and Josh Wilbur. Chris Adler is the founding drummer of Lamb of God, a Grammy winner for his work on Megadeth’s Dystopia, and has also played with bands like Testament and Protest the Hero. He is also widely recognized as the business-minded entrepreneur behind Lamb of God’s success.

In This Episode

In this killer conversation, Chris Adler and Machine take a deep dive into the making of Lamb of God’s landmark album, Sacrament. They get real about the creative conflict that defined their early work together—the band, fiercely protective of their sound, and Machine, a producer from outside the metal world with a fresh perspective. They break down how that initial friction ultimately forged a unique sound, turning a simple verse line into the iconic anthem “Now You’ve Got Something To Die For.” They also get into the nitty-gritty of the album’s production, detailing the deconstructed drum recording process where shells and cymbals were tracked separately to achieve maximum clarity and impact. Machine reveals the story behind the signature typewriter kick drum sample, born from a failed attempt to emulate a Meshuggah tone that resulted in something even better. Beyond the studio talk, Chris discusses the entrepreneurial drive that’s essential for a sustainable music career, touching on his latest venture into band management. This one’s packed with technical insights and psychological strategies for any producer looking to push boundaries.

Products Mentioned

• GarageBand
• Pro Tools
• Meinl Cymbals
• Zildjian Cymbals

Timestamps

• [0:05:32] Using GarageBand as a creative tool for kids
• [0:11:20] Nature vs. nurture in musical talent
• [0:24:35] Machine’s initial perspective on metal as a genre outsider
• [0:29:42] Why Lamb of God hired a producer from outside the metal scene
• [0:32:42] The band’s original (and confrontational) approach to working with a producer
• [0:38:30] Machine’s critique of mainstream metal production at the time
• [0:43:43] The psychological warfare of making a Lamb of God record
• [0:47:53] The story behind the anthem “Now You’ve Got Something To Die For”
• [0:55:57] A producer’s need to see the “end game” before starting a record
• [1:00:24] The producer’s role as a psychologist
• [1:02:54] Advice for bands on how to interview and challenge potential producers
• [1:17:02] Raising the stakes for Sacrament and bringing in more ambitious production ideas
• [1:26:10] The deconstructed drum recording process for Sacrament
• [1:30:59] How separating drum parts allowed for a better performance
• [1:40:50] Using tempo mapping to preserve the natural feel of the songs
• [1:59:07] The origin of the typewriter kick drum sample
• [2:04:42] Chris Adler’s new management company and the band Dyscarnate
• [2:09:13] The entrepreneurial mindset required to sustain a career in music
• [2:15:31] “T-shaped” vs. “I-shaped” people in the music industry