Billy Decker: Becoming fearless, Nashville mixing secrets, and handling difficult clients

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast. Brought to you by tele Funken Electroacoustic Tele Funken. Electroacoustic has been following the tradition of excellence and innovation set forth by the original tele Funken GM BH of Germany that began over 100 years ago with one foot rooted in the rich history of the brand and the other in new microphone innovations for both stage and studio applications. Telefon in electro acoustic is recognized as one of the industry leaders in top quality microphones. For more info, go to tunk.com. This episode is also brought to you by Fascination Street. Mastering Studios have your songs mastered by Jens Boian and Tony Linn. The engineers that mastered bands like Ope, dmu Borg, gear Arch Enemy creator, Sura Amman Marth, and many more. By using the coupon code UR M1 eight in the online Mastering configurator, you'll receive a 15% discount on your order. The code is valid for the rest of the year. Visit www.fascinationstreet.se to learn more and book your mastering session today. And now your host, Eyal Levi.

Speaker 2 (00:01:14):

Welcome to the URM Podcast. I am Eyal Levi, and I just want to tell you that this show is brought to you by URM Academy, the world's best education for rock and metal producers. Every month on Nail the Mix, we bring you one of the world's best producers to mix a song from scratch, from artists like Lama God, Ms. Suga, periphery The Day To Remember. Bring me the Horizon, opec many, many more, and we give you the raw multi-track so you can mix along. You'll also get access to Mix Lab, our collection of bite-sized mixing tutorials and Portfolio Builder, which are pro quality multi-tracks that are cleared for use in your portfolio. You can find out [email protected]. Also, I want to take a second to tell you about something I'm very, very excited about and it's the URM Summit. Once a year we hold an event where hundreds of producers from all over the world come together for four days of networking, workshops, seminars, and of course hanging out.

(00:02:07):

This industry is all about relationships and think about it, what could you gain from getting to personally know your peers from all over the world who have the same goals as you, the same struggles as you, and who can not only help you with inspiration and motivation, but also with potential professional collaborations? I've seen a lot of professional collaborations come from the summit in the past, and speaking of networking and relationships, there's no other event where you'll get to learn from and hang out with some of the very best in the production business. You could go to something like Nam, but good luck getting more than five minutes with your hero at this. You actually will get to hang out, like hang out, hang out. Just a few of this year's instructors are Andrew Wade Kipa, Lou Blasco, Taylor Larson, Billy Decker, Canan, Kevin Charco, Jesse Cannon, and more seriously, this is one of the best and most productive events you will ever go to.

(00:02:59):

So if that sounds like something that's up your alley, go to URM summit.com to find out more. Hello and welcome to the URM podcast. I am Eyal Levi and this is an episode that needs no real introduction because my guest needs no real introduction. His name is Billy Decker. If you're a fan of URM or this podcast, you know exactly who he is. He's one of the most world-renowned country music mixers with over 35 million albums under. His belt is crazy. I mean, he hasn't mixed 35 million albums, but the albums he's mixed have sold over 35 million copies. He's got something like 14 and number ones just a laundry list of who's who, top country artists. He's been on nail the Mix before he is come to our summit. What can I say? Man? I just love the guy. I'm just going to get right to the podcast. Enjoy Billy Decker. Hello.

Speaker 3 (00:03:54):

Hello aal. How are you sir?

Speaker 2 (00:03:56):

Doing all right. I've missed you.

Speaker 3 (00:03:59):

I can't say the same. I can't say the same.

Speaker 2 (00:04:01):

Life was better without me.

Speaker 3 (00:04:03):

It's been the best two months of my life. Not talking to you every single day like we used to. No, I'm teasing. No, I've missed you, my friend. Come on. We've been out in the desert in Vegas racing dune buggies for crying out loud.

Speaker 2 (00:04:15):

That was kind of fun.

Speaker 3 (00:04:16):

That was awesome.

Speaker 2 (00:04:17):

Do you like doing stuff like that? Stuff that could kill you?

Speaker 3 (00:04:21):

Yes, yes, because I had cancer and I didn't die, so now I think I'm Superman. So if you see me trying to jump between buildings or racing motorcycles or deep sea diving or something like that, my wife's like, you're not invincible, so stop thinking you are. But it seriously gives you a new lease on life, so you just don't want to waste any time.

Speaker 2 (00:04:45):

Did you used to do that kind of stuff before the cancer

Speaker 3 (00:04:50):

But not quite as much now? I'm totally think I'm like a superhero. I can bounce bullets off my chest and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (00:04:58):

Have you tried that one?

Speaker 3 (00:05:01):

I tell you what, the way Nashville's getting me these days, dude, it's almost as bad as Atlanta as far as the traffic and the crime. I mean, you turn on the TV and it's like three people a night are getting killed in this town.

Speaker 2 (00:05:13):

Wow.

Speaker 3 (00:05:14):

It's crazy. Yeah, it's really growing, getting dangerous too. You got to be careful.

Speaker 2 (00:05:17):

So maybe it's a good thing that you can bounce bullets off your chest.

Speaker 3 (00:05:21):

Yeah, and I've been thinking about, I make cutting boards and that's my hobby, but I was like, you know what I need to do? I need to be like Ray Donovan or Denzel Washington, the equalizer, the guy that just goes out at night and stops crime and saves people and just something. Why not? Why not?

Speaker 2 (00:05:41):

So what's the craziest thing that you've decided to do hobby wise that has just freaked the shit out of your wife? Like anything like honey, I going skydiving

Speaker 3 (00:05:51):

Her. I tried to build a forge in my fire pit in the backyard and melt some metal and tried to see if I could make a knife out of some old iron, you know what I mean? And she's like, what are you doing? And I had three bags of charcoal out there and it's like 95 degrees and I'm sitting here sweating my ass off trying to melt metal. Were

Speaker 2 (00:06:13):

You successful? No,

Speaker 3 (00:06:14):

Absolutely not. It was horrible. I burned up a big patch in my backyard and it was not a good endeavor. So the fire got a little out of control, but hey, that's what we do.

Speaker 2 (00:06:27):

What about stuff like skydiving? Any interest?

Speaker 3 (00:06:30):

Yeah, I haven't tried skydiving yet. I love the ocean, so I definitely do the swimming with sharks and all that kind of stuff. I've done that before, but I think I would be more in line with going without a tour and just doing it on my own, I guess. You know what it is. I think I don't have fear. I mean I still have fear, but it's almost like I'm not afraid of a lot of things anymore. Does that make any sense? It's kind of hard to explain, but it's like once you all of a sudden have no fear, I don't want to say I don't have fear. I mean everybody's got fear. It almost is. Like me and my wife were walking our dogs the other night late at night, super super dark in our neighborhood and we've got these two dogs in another part of the neighborhood that we were walking by and one of 'em just comes barreling out and I literally just looked at this dog.

(00:07:26):

It was a huge dog and it was in one of those electronic fences, so you can't tell or you don't know if it's going to breach into the street where we were and just start mauling you or your wife or the other two dogs we had. And I literally just looked over to the dog and my wife just took off. She was like, ah, and grabbed the one dog and took off running and all I did, I had the other dog, I just turned to my right and I just pointed my finger at the dog and I just did the, what was that dog whisper dude on tv, the Caesar Milan.

Speaker 2 (00:07:57):

Caesar Milan,

Speaker 3 (00:07:59):

Yes. And all I did was I went and I pointed my finger and I went stop. And the dog just stopped and looked at me. You

Speaker 2 (00:08:04):

Showed him who's who

Speaker 3 (00:08:05):

Exactly

Speaker 2 (00:08:06):

Got decorated

Speaker 3 (00:08:08):

Probably three years ago. I would've been ahead of my wife running down the street, but this was just like, nah, okay. A dog's coming at me, pointed at me. He just stopped.

Speaker 2 (00:08:17):

What do you think it is, do you think? Is it a conscious thing or did just like a switch get flipped in your head? It

Speaker 3 (00:08:24):

Was a switch. Yeah, it was a switch just when, I think we went over this one other time, but when you're told that you might die, you just all of a sudden reevaluate and everything just kind of changes for the better. It's not superhuman or anything like that or I don't think I'm a superhero, but it's like,

Speaker 2 (00:08:45):

I don't know.

Speaker 3 (00:08:45):

I don't want to say an awakening. That sounds cheesy,

Speaker 2 (00:08:47):

But it's kind of like that.

Speaker 3 (00:08:49):

It is, it is. And you just kind of chill out. You mellow out, you don't let the small stuff bother you anymore, and I don't think I'm afraid of much anymore. You know what I mean? I could be walking down an alley and somebody jumps out and it's like, oh, okay, take your best shot. I've been there before, done that. Whatcha going to do? Kill me? No, I'd beat cancer. You ain't going to kill me. And I'll probably get a couple swipes in. So

Speaker 2 (00:09:11):

Were you saying that if it came to an undersea tour with a group, you'd rather just do that by yourself?

Speaker 3 (00:09:20):

Yeah, they have those swimming with the sharks and they put you in the cages and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:09:26):

That's just horrifying

Speaker 3 (00:09:27):

Too. I think I'd be more or willing to just dive in by myself and see what happens. I'm not looking to kill myself, but it's like, yeah, I don't know what it is and I don't want everybody out there to go, oh, Decker has no fear. I'm going to go try to run him over with a car or something like, or test it. And like I said, it's almost like an awakening and you just don't let stuff bother you or get worked up anymore, which I think has made me a even more likable dude in the recording studio and a more chill mixing engineer. I've always been the kick me, may I have another type of dude, but now I really am. It's like, man, you can come in and scream and holler and I'll recall something 9 million times and it really doesn't bother me. Now

Speaker 2 (00:10:15):

At the beginning of people's careers, I guess you may not even call it career yet, there's a lot of fear involved with, and I see this all the time, a lot of fear involved with saying the right thing, saying the wrong thing. Am I approaching the right person? Am I fucking it up? Fear of sending things to clients, just all kinds of fears involved. I mean we all kind of go through it to some degree, but do you wish that that phase of your career you had this level of freedom from fear back in that stage, or do you think that that stage was crucial, helped you become who you are?

Speaker 3 (00:10:56):

What do they say? Hindsight's 2020, you can't ever go back, but if you could, you would do something different. I think everything I've done has probably helped contribute or made me who I am. So you never want to go back and change anything.

Speaker 2 (00:11:11):

Yeah. But let's just say that someone kind of like you who's outside of you who's maybe 25 years old, who's has the same goals as you would've had, but is exhibiting those fear-based behaviors that slow someone down, would you wish for them that they had this sort of awakening that you've had? Do you wish that they would just approach life and getting their career going in a more fearless way? Or do you think that it protects you from doing dumb shit at the beginning?

Speaker 3 (00:11:43):

Yeah, I would. Boy, that's a good question. You know what? Because half of what made you who you are is when you do screw up it because then you learn and then you decide to do something different. So if you bypassed all that, I'm not sure you would progress as fast as if you had all the answers or I'll say yes, but let me preface that with always do your homework before you do dive into something like that. And what I mean is I always give that example of how I called Bob Clear Mountain back in the day before I called Bob Clear Mountain. I knew everything about Bob Clear Mountain, you know what I mean? So I wouldn't step in a pile of whatever when I was talking to him if that phone call got through. So I would say yes, remove the fear, be fearless. That's a great way to be, but

Speaker 2 (00:12:39):

Not stupid.

Speaker 3 (00:12:40):

Don't be reckless. Be fearless but not reckless. And always do your homework first. So if somebody is going to cold, call me, do me a favor and at least do a little research to find out what I've maybe mixed or maybe haven't mixed. So when you're referencing something going, Hey, I wonder if you could make that sound like Dustin Lynch's voice if possible. It's like, hello, I mixed his LA single or his last single. Of course I can. You know what I mean? So don't go into situations blind, always do your homework before you're going to leap.

Speaker 2 (00:13:12):

Have you found though that now the combination of doing your due diligence and having a more fearless attitude almost makes you unstoppable in a way? It

Speaker 3 (00:13:21):

Does. It does. And what's funny is my wife has read a couple articles since then and listened, believe it or not, she actually listened to one podcast that I did and somehow it came up that the person interviewing me was like, oh, and he's so humble. And my wife was like, what? And her sister-in-law even listened and they're like, what? Humble decker's, the farthest thing from Humble at home. And I just thought that was funny because I don't want to say there's two mes, but you do tend to get a little less on, I guess like how come everybody's saying all this stuff when you're at work, but when you come home, it's like, I know this side of you and it's like, well, it's because it's almost like my job, and that's what I do. And I run out of being nice to everybody at work and I come home and I'm screaming at all at home. I'm all out of patience. I've been patient and nice all day. So it's like

Speaker 2 (00:14:24):

I've been hiding the monster all day long. Yes,

Speaker 3 (00:14:27):

The ones that you love always take the brunt of it. And I'm totally being facetious when I say that. Me and my wife are going great, going strong. Kids are good, family's good, everything's great. But it was just funny like, yeah, my sister even saw that and she was like, humble. What the hell? But that's what your sister-in-law's going to say in your wife.

Speaker 2 (00:14:48):

Do you think that you've taken on more projects or have you become more selective about which projects to take? Developed a sense for this is with the finite amount of time we have on earth, maybe not take this project.

Speaker 3 (00:15:03):

No, no. I'm still, that hasn't changed. I take everything for the most part. I mean, I don't want to say I take everything, but that's what I do. So I almost have another side slogan where it's like have audio we'll mix. So my job is just to take what people give me and try to make it as best that I think I can. So I don't care if you're from Idaho with a deal, Idaho without a deal, Nashville with a deal, Nashville without, it doesn't really matter. I mean, I literally make my living mixing. So I very rarely say no to anybody, and it's just because that's the way I like to work and I like to be too busy. I do my best work is when I'm under the gun and under pressure and I've got the phone ringing and mixing left and and trying to fit in a lunch or just grab a quick cup of soup and a bag of chips or whatever. I like the chaos, believe it or not, when I don't have that, I almost crave it. I want to be too busy.

Speaker 2 (00:16:09):

Have you added an assistant into the mix yet?

Speaker 3 (00:16:11):

Nope. Still running solo. I do have a gentleman that will come in and bounce my versions for me, and I guess if you want to say he's my assistant, sure. But yeah, for the most part, I'm still just the way I've always come up, that's the way I've operated and I'll probably go out that way. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (00:16:30):

I mean assistant as far as he comes in after you're already done and just does the vocal up, vocal down, instrumental, et cetera. Correct.

Speaker 3 (00:16:38):

And a lot of times if I am in the middle of something and we need vocal overdubs a lot of time, he'll cut all the vocals for that in the evenings. You know what I mean? And then it'll be ready, he'll tune it, comp it, and get it ready to go, and then I just come in and mix. So for the most part, I still just mix, mix, mix, mix.

Speaker 2 (00:16:55):

Let's talk about the definition of mix because I feel like it's a fluid definition because there's some times where I hear certain people say, I'm mixed. That's all I do. It's an extra charge for any edits or whatever. Then there's other guys who are like, Hey, my name goes on the final product, so whatever has to be done has to be done and I'll just do it because what the fuck? And then every kind of variation in between. What's your stance on, I guess, where the line is for mixing and at what point do you start doing harmonies on stuff or what's the line for you? Where do upcharges come in? When is it no longer just mixing?

Speaker 3 (00:17:43):

For me, I have done it for so long where I started out in the trenches just doing demos and sometimes you would need a harmony. Sometimes the vocal needed comped, sometimes it needed tuned everything. I always like to get it just raw because I have a special way, I like to clean stuff and I'm used to it, so it doesn't bother me at all. So I would say all of the above, if I get called to mix, that encompasses taking whatever they give me and making it as best I can. The other day there was a song that I did that the chorus didn't feel as big as I was hoping it would. So I called the producer and I said, would you mind if I laid some power chords in there to just kind of fatten it up? I'll run it at half volume.

(00:18:28):

I'm going to use, it was a country song, and I said, I'm going to run a drop B tuning or a drop C, almost like they do in metal, and I'm just going to throw just straight diamonds in the chorus to fatten it up and I'm going to do a stereo pass. And he was like, whatever you think you need to do to make it just pop, go for it. He's like, I'm all on board. All on board. Now there's other times when maybe somebody wouldn't like that, but I always ask first, and in this instance he was like, absolutely do it. So I did it. They loved it. You can barely hear it, but you can feel it. It just fatten it up. And I took no credit, don't want credit. I consider that just part of making it sound good. There's another song that needed a harmony. There was a girl singing a third above, but it needed that fifth below. So I just did it. I didn't mention it. I didn't tell 'em. They just said, it sounds great. It's like, okay, cool. So for me it's just whatever. I could care less. I just do the job.

Speaker 2 (00:19:27):

I've always kind of seen it that way, except there is a line I'm trying to figure out what is the line though.

Speaker 3 (00:19:32):

I've never been pushed even close to it, you know what I mean? I'll get people that say, Hey, could you tune that vocal onm? Sure, no problem. And I'll just

Speaker 2 (00:19:40):

Do it. I'm trying to think. To me, I think the line ends up being rhythm guitars need to be redone for the whole album or something like that. Something where it's like, okay, I'm going to have to sit down and learn these parts. We're not talking just like power chords. We're talking intense metal riffs. I'm going to have to learn how to play these well and all the harmonies and really go for it.

Speaker 3 (00:20:02):

To me, that would be part of being a engineer producer as well. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (00:20:08):

Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (00:20:08):

Yeah. Now I'm talking just mixing, purely mixing. Now, there is a guy in town who is a mixer, and his name's John Kelton, and I've heard that he's a phenomenal bass player and has actually replaced a few bass parts if it wasn't up to standards or whatnot, you know what I mean? But for the most part, I would say I am nowhere near the musician that Nashville is spitting out on a day-to-day basis. So if somebody said, Hey, redo this guitar part, I'd be like,

Speaker 2 (00:20:37):

Huh, well, one guitar part is fine. And actually I could see getting away with dropping bass on an album because it's so quick. But recording rhythm guitar is a painstakingly slow process though.

Speaker 3 (00:20:51):

That's why I can't even imagine.

Speaker 2 (00:20:53):

And I'm saying that has happened though. I have gotten records to mix where the guitars were so bad. I mean, we could have said you guys need to redo them, but they're the ones who sent the bad guitars in the first place.

Speaker 3 (00:21:06):

In the first place. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:21:07):

Yeah. Them redoing it doesn't mean they're going to come back. Better learned that when I asked the band to resend guitars, redo them, and they came back just as bad. It's like, oh yeah, I mean, it's the same people. Why would it get better? Good lord.

Speaker 3 (00:21:20):

I mean, I'll get something that maybe I don't think sounds as good as something else, but yeah, I've never gotten to the point where I've actually replaced anything other than adding some stuff. I will say I fixed drums all the time, you know what I mean? I'll fly fills around and stuff. If that, oh, that feels sucks. Yeah, I'll steal Rob from Paul to pay Peter or Peter from Paul, whatever that saying is, and I'll even create add a kick or here or there or something like that to make it feel better or fly some Toms. But as far as getting into what you've said, no, I've never had to do that. And

Speaker 2 (00:21:58):

The standards are really high in Nashville.

Speaker 3 (00:22:00):

They are. They are. And usually, like I said, even the worst stuff I get is probably better than 95% of a lot of the rest of the country just because the quality of musicianship here and there is a standard.

Speaker 2 (00:22:14):

I feel like a lot of people aren't in Nashville, don't understand what I mean when I say that The standards are really high. It's a beautiful thing, man. It's great. I love it. Even if it's not my preferred genre, whenever I've been there and on the tracks that you gave us for now, the mix, man, it's just the musicianship and the arrangements and just the engineering, just everything about it. Even if it's not from you couldn't tell the difference between the hit track or the demo track. Everything had the same level of care and love put into it. It was great. It was very inspiring.

Speaker 3 (00:22:52):

One of these days, what we should do, and maybe this will be something that nailed the mix or like a URM will do specifically for Nashville, is we should seriously attend and film a song from start to finish. You know what I mean? Even if it's a demo song so everybody can see the process, and literally it would take less than a half an hour from start to finish. You know what I mean? For one song,

Speaker 2 (00:23:18):

I believe you,

Speaker 3 (00:23:19):

It might be kind of a neat thing we'll have to do one of these days.

Speaker 2 (00:23:23):

I'm just laughing at half an hour for a song just like, holy shit,

Speaker 3 (00:23:27):

Start to finish.

Speaker 2 (00:23:28):

It seems like you, Nashville folk appreciate it. Am I right or are there people who take that for granted? That's just not like the rest of the world.

Speaker 3 (00:23:37):

I myself have gotten where I almost take it for granted now where if something doesn't happen in six or seven minutes, if it takes nine, I'm like, what? What's wrong, dude? What the hell's wrong with you? Or if they don't get it on the first time down, you're just rolling your eyes like, oh God, what a crappy day. It takes two times instead of once.

Speaker 2 (00:23:58):

It's kind of amazing. I definitely think that more people should spend time in Nashville, even if they don't want to work on country, they should spend time in Nashville just to get a dose of what high standards can create.

Speaker 3 (00:24:11):

Yeah. Well, you know what? I'll take it upon myself, the initiative, and I seriously will, one of these days I'll film, even if I just have to call one of my buddies doing a demo session, the same players, they're just not making single or double scale master, but it's the same exact people doing the exact same thing in the exact same studio. They're just not making as much that day. So I'll film from start to finish, that'll be an eyeopener, and everybody will then be able to go, oh, okay, now I see, I get it. Instead of just hearing us talk about it, they'll actually be able to see and hear it from conception to boom.

Speaker 2 (00:24:46):

Yeah, let me end on that. That sounds so cool. We've done conception to completion stuff, but in the heavy music world and songs are not done in 30 minutes.

Speaker 3 (00:24:57):

Yeah, I was going to say 30 months.

Speaker 2 (00:24:59):

Yeah, 30 months. 30 days. 30 days on an album, 60 days on an album. I mean, even with the really good players, we've got some killer players. It's just not that fast. It's very impressive. It gives me hope. Honestly, the way Nashville does things gives me hope. The way that you guys do things is in line with why I started going down the path of music in the first place. Yeah, yeah. It's weird. It's like when I was there, I felt a kinship with not so much with the music man, as you know, that's not my genre, but I felt a kinship with the people and their craftsmanship and their work ethic and the seriousness that they took it with. I don't mean serious as in they don't have a sense of humor or can't get along, but there's just, I take pride in that work and they take it seriously. They're doing important work and that level of commitment, it speaks to me. I thought it was very inspiring.

Speaker 3 (00:26:05):

Yeah, I've actually been doing the reverse though, and trying to do a few more projects. You guys do just build it back almost like the rock world in the rock days where you one instrument at a time overdub, and it's been a lot of fun for me lately. You know what I mean? I'm still doing country music in the genre, but I'm just, instead of five guys in a room and 1, 2, 3, go and we're done. In five minutes I'll bring in the acoustic guitar player, overdub the electrics, overdub the banjo, overdub the bass, do the drums just to a work tape with a vocal and a click.

Speaker 2 (00:26:45):

No, that's great. But that doesn't mean that your standards are dropping or anything. You're just doing it piece by piece, but at the standard that you're used to.

Speaker 3 (00:26:53):

Yeah, everything's still the same. The quality, the mics, the players, all that good stuff, but it's just I'm approaching it more like your world rather than mine. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (00:27:02):

Why is that? What is it about that approach that's attracting you?

Speaker 3 (00:27:06):

Just the attention to detail. I mean, when things get going, a lot of times you can just miss stuff. You know what I mean? I mean, think about it, you're grabbing a record on the second take and that's it. So it's either we go in and edit it and have to fix it later, or we can just piece it together, maybe take a little bit longer. I mean, I got so used to doing the five guys, wham bam, thank you that it's been kind of fun to just go back and slow down a bit and really dive in and be able to take just a little bit more time and get the music exactly where I want it.

Speaker 2 (00:27:43):

And you have been working on more rock stuff, haven't you?

Speaker 3 (00:27:46):

I have. Since appearing on your show. I've gotten a few more calls and kind of been dipping my toes in that water. It's been a lot of fun. Your

Speaker 2 (00:27:53):

Rock mixes sound great, man.

Speaker 3 (00:27:55):

Thank you. I really enjoy mixing that format. And if I'm not mistaken, that first thing I did, I sent to you and said, what do you think? Remember that about nine months ago, maybe a year ago I sent you? I said, Hey, I'm kind of tapping this type of format. What do I need to do? And you're like, A, B, C, D. And I'm like, okay, did it and sent it back. You're like, there you go.

Speaker 2 (00:28:20):

What is it about that genre that appeals to you?

Speaker 3 (00:28:23):

You know what? To be honest, I really, really like female fronted rock bands. And I think what I like about that, the genre, I love the heaviness and just the power. I just like, maybe it's the intensity and the reason I think I gravitate towards female fronted rock bands is to me, the female bands always have a little bit more melody mixed in. You know what I mean? Even if they're screaming, they always seem to go a little hookier in the chorus, which I love. And that's not to say every time in every female band, I mean, I'm sure you could point to 10 bands right now that it's just there's not a lick of melody. It's just me. Yes. But the ones that I have listened to, I don't know. I just find it really easy and nine times out of 10, I don't even get to meet the band. I just get stuff sent to me. But I really like the melody when a female is either harmonizing with herself or whatnot, and the chorus gets real poppy, but yet it's still a heavy band. I love that type of stuff. I just got done doing a band that had three girls in it and it was really heavy, but in the chorus, they always went a little poppier and that was just for me. That was cool. I really enjoyed that.

Speaker 2 (00:29:43):

And is it a different approach for you than your normal mixes?

Speaker 3 (00:29:48):

The only thing different was I used different samples on the drums. Other than that, everything else was the same vocal chain, electric guitars, bass. I know you're supposed to split the bass and distort the top and the bottom. I did not. I still did what I do for country base, and maybe that's what made it sound a little different is I didn't have that real rattly distorted base just with the pick. Couldn't hear quite as much pick attack as a lot of bands in that genre have. But I did change the samples around and got a little more your world rather than mine,

Speaker 2 (00:30:21):

But

Speaker 3 (00:30:22):

I treated 'em all the same. I just use different samples.

Speaker 2 (00:30:24):

So do you dislike Clangy bass?

Speaker 3 (00:30:26):

No. No, no, no. I like it, but I don't know how to do it very well, so I just revert, reverted back to what I know and it seemed to work, so I don't get the whole splitting it in half and making the top jangly in the bottom. I know how to do it, and I've tried to do it, but I just can't make it work as good as probably half the students out there on URM.

Speaker 2 (00:30:49):

I've had a hard time with it too at times. Sometimes I prefer just using one bass and making the sound that way at times. I've had difficulty when you split them, getting them to sound still like one instrument. And I've had that talk with Andrew Wade as well, where sometimes when you do the sub-base as MIDI and then a hundred and up for the bass guitar or whatever split you have, sometimes it's weird. Sometimes it's weird. Sometimes it's hard to get it to sound like one instrument. Sometimes it's not hard, but it's definitely a challenge at times.

Speaker 3 (00:31:27):

Oh, I love learning new things and new tricks and techniques, but I tell you what, if I can't master it after doing it this long, if I can't figure out how to get it to sound good in about a half an hour, I just give up and go back to what I know how to do.

Speaker 2 (00:31:41):

Fair enough.

Speaker 3 (00:31:41):

I'm like, okay, I quit. I ain't wasting no more time on that unless it's something I really want to chase. Then I'll put the time in or cheat and just call you guys and say, give me some settings.

Speaker 2 (00:31:53):

It's not cheating, man. I'll tell you why it's not cheating. We've been doing these nail the mixes for a long time. Now we're on episode 37 already, and people could be, not be people who are going about this the wrong way have been copying settings since the beginning, and if all there was to it was copying settings, we'd have 5,000 Joey Sturgis's or whatever, or 5,000 Billy Decker's or several thousand. But we don't because there's so much more to it than just the settings, the thought process behind the settings and those settings are just about that one moment in time solving whatever unique problems that mix had. So when people are copying settings, yeah, okay, there's the settings, but what about the rest of the picture? Are you even understanding what that's all about? Now, in your case, you would understand that's different, but I'm just saying from the student's perspective, I don't think that they're really cheating by doing that. It's not helping them that much.

Speaker 3 (00:33:02):

True, true. And you know what else is cool is like you just said, after you've been doing this for a certain amount of time and say, I am running up against something that I can't figure out. For me to look at a setting and actually know the ins and outs, the A through Zs after doing it this long, that's almost for me getting to peek behind the green curtain and go, oh, okay, I get it. I know how to do this. I just didn't know that particular thing. So it is probably easier for me to just grab a setting. Then I can actually look at it and go, okay, I should have been doing that at that frequency rather than there. I was doing it there, but if I go up 20 hertz and start high passing the base at 70 instead of wherever, a hundred or 90 or something like that, oh, it's like, okay, yeah, yeah. That setting came from say a all levy and I like his record and that's what he was doing. So okay, I get it. I get it. So it's even more fun when you know what a compressor does and you see a setting from somebody that you enjoy their work. You know what I mean? It means a little more to me rather than just go, oh, okay, that's setting from compressor vocal A, but if you know how a compressor works to be able to see what you did to me, that's even cooler. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:34:26):

Absolutely. Once you've done the work and gotten into some, we've always got room to grow, but let's just say you've put in the work and have become an advanced or upper intermediate level mixer to where you're doing all right, then I think these nail the mix sessions would be way more valuable actually. That's why when people actually ask me, is it good for beginners or advanced people say all the above because they're going to get different things depending on where they're at. I feel like you just said you specifically, you already know how this shit works. You don't need any of that stuff on nail the mix, but there might be this one thing that you're just beating your head into a brick wall over where who knows? Daniel Bergs strand may have just covered it and boom, there you go. You understood it in a way that maybe a beginner wouldn't understand it, but it made perfect sense for whatever problem you were having. And there you go. That right there made it worth checking out the whole show just for that one thing that you've been beating your head against the wall over.

Speaker 3 (00:35:31):

And I know this isn't like an infomercial.

Speaker 2 (00:35:34):

No, no, that's not.

Speaker 3 (00:35:35):

No money's getting exchanged hands here, but I actually have had a few things where I've had questions and I've snapped up a couple previous nail the mix gentlemen or guests that you've had on there, and I actually fast forwarded through some stuff till I got to that part I was having trouble with and was able to zoom in, and I didn't watch the whole episode, but I did watch a couple things from guest A or guest B, and it was great. It got me over the hill. So yeah, whether you are a beginner or you've been doing this or you're halfway down through your career, it doesn't matter for me, I was able to grab something and I've done that with about six or seven nail the mixes now late at night, I'll just grab me a, I'm on an IPA kick these days. I'm not advocating drinking, but I guess it's better than sitting around watching the news all night.

Speaker 2 (00:36:26):

Well, I mean in the interest of full disclosure, in case anybody doesn't know, yes, this podcast is by the same company that does nail the mix, but if you've been listening to this podcast long enough that we rarely ever even talk about nail the mix on the podcast like it's mentioned in passing, and we very rarely even go into it. We don't really use it as a promotional vehicle

Speaker 3 (00:36:50):

For

Speaker 2 (00:36:51):

Nail the mix, not very often, at least maybe in the pre-roll ads or something, but not generally with guests. So if I'm talking about nail the mix with a guest, it is just because it's relevant to the conversation that we're having

Speaker 3 (00:37:06):

At

Speaker 2 (00:37:06):

The time. I just felt like I had to say that. So that said, so you grabbed five or six of them and you contacted the guys themselves, the actual mixer?

Speaker 3 (00:37:16):

A couple times I did, and a couple times I actually just fast forwarded to, I watched Anali one where I was having trouble with this one thing and I watched what he did. I watched a Kae Chico one, and then I watched, I think I did watch some of that Daniel one. I've watched yours in the past. I've watched some of Joey's. Dude, I'm telling you, everybody's got something that they're great at. We're all good, but we all get one little thing that we're great at. Now, whether it's in audio or not, I don't know, but somebody that listens go, yeah, I might not like Decker's drums, but I tell you what, he can mix a vocal like none other. So I like going in and finding these things that those dudes are great at and borrowing from them or implementing it and what I do.

(00:38:03):

That's half the fun. You know what I mean? That's how I think I learn. I ask questions, I watch other people. So I would encourage anybody that ever wants to keep on going, and that also goes back to that other question where I said, I always like to stick my neck out and maybe cold call somebody or something like that. Do your homework first before you call, because nine times out of 10, if you've got a question for me, watch nail the mix. I spent eight hours just telling you everything I know. You know what I mean? And a lot of times I'll get late night phone calls and stuff, and I love it. I love talking to people all over the world and stuff like that, but it's like if they would've just watched the first three minutes of the vocal chain, I lay it all out right there. I could have saved them tracking me down for the last three weeks and ping ponging back and forth on emails and stuff. So yeah, do your homework first and then if you're still stuck, by all means you can hit me up. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (00:39:03):

And sometimes I feel bad about that. That irritates me a little. It irritates me a little if someone needs to hear an answer from me of something that's so clearly been put out there, but you know what it is, it's because so much work went into, whether it's in a fast track or in a nail, the mix, so much work goes into that, into getting that information out there for people. It's like, dude, I like, it's not that. I don't want to tell you it's that I did all this fucking work for you, and you can just go watch it. There it is,

Speaker 3 (00:39:38):

And you can pause it and rewind it if you, no, and I don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything like that, but if you get that response from me, if you do hit me up and I say, you know what? It will be a lot easier for you to go to this click here, and I lay it all out, rather than me spending a half hour telling you the exact same thing where you can stop, rewind, fast forward, zoom in, get the exact settings. So that's what I mean. Do your homework first and do that for anything in life. Just research what you're diving into before, try to find as much out for yourself. Then if you're still in trouble, then you make the Bob Clear Mountain call. If you can't get over that hump, then call the Kae Chicos, the Kevin Chicos.

Speaker 2 (00:40:25):

Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (00:40:25):

That's what I would suggest. And then they'll be more receptive to help you rather than if you're just asking them a broad list of questions. If you spend the time to try to figure it out on your own and do as much research with that person and say, Hey, I saw where you did this, this, this, this. It's still not working. What do I do? Oh, yeah, then that's easy.

Speaker 2 (00:40:46):

Yeah, they'll take you way more seriously. Speaking of people to cold call or make friends with or whatever from nail the mix, man, I don't know if you've seen Machines Session or know him yet. I'll happily introduce you guys, but his nail, the mix that just happened this past weekend was fucking good

Speaker 3 (00:41:07):

Off the charts.

Speaker 2 (00:41:07):

Yeah, man. One of the top five, I think.

Speaker 3 (00:41:09):

Oh, that's great.

Speaker 2 (00:41:10):

Oh yeah, dude, it was so good. I don't want to sound jaded, but I've been to just about all of 'em. I've been to like 35 out of the 37, and I always learned something in them always. So again, I don't want to sound jaded, but at this point in my life, either through my studio career or now the mix I have now watched and been in the room with lots and lots and lots and lots of really mind blowingly good mixers. I've been around a lot of it, and so it's rare for something to come along that just wows me for something to come along and impress me. That happens every time because everyone we have on now, the mix is impressive. Okay, sure they are. But man, for something to come along and floor me like that and just be like, holy shit,

Speaker 3 (00:42:03):

That's fun, isn't

Speaker 2 (00:42:04):

It? This is the dude. Yeah, man. Not only is it fun, it's like invigorating.

Speaker 3 (00:42:09):

Yeah, I was going to say, it reminds you why you got into it. It makes you want to go, oh, this is awesome. I love my life. At least this week. It makes you remember that.

Speaker 2 (00:42:19):

Yeah, it did. I highly suggest that episode and I'll introduce you guys. Oh,

Speaker 3 (00:42:24):

Please do. I

Speaker 2 (00:42:24):

You, I think you guys would become friends.

Speaker 3 (00:42:26):

You know what? That same exact thing happened to me when I learned about parallel compression. That was my moment. That was my machine moment when parallel compression was explained and I finally clicked in my brain. That's when everything got fun for me.

Speaker 2 (00:42:43):

I can see how that would be one of those things. Oh, speaking of he's got this parallel thing he does in there that's just like, holy shit, this insides outsides thing. That's what it's called. The total outsides or whatever. Really? He's got to check it out.

Speaker 3 (00:42:58):

Yeah, I will. I will. I'll definitely, I haven't had a chance. I've been kind of wrangling one of my rental properties.

Speaker 2 (00:43:05):

Yeah, I heard,

Speaker 3 (00:43:06):

Yeah, I got a piece of property. I'm just kind of getting it ready to roll and fixing it up and stuff like that. So that's been kind of consuming my time other than mixing and whatnot. But no, I remember you posting some stuff and telling me it was great, and I got to see some photos of his studio down there, and it's all that wood and stuff down in Texas and Oh, I love the rustic thing.

Speaker 2 (00:43:29):

Well, okay, here's something else about you guys that I think you would connect on. He built that place from the ground up. That's his construction.

Speaker 3 (00:43:40):

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (00:43:41):

Yeah, and it's a very clever studio. We've all been in these multimillion dollar rooms with the 97,000 channel SSL and all that stuff, and that's cool. Those studios are cool. I mean, no knock in those studios. That's awesome. But his studio is, he designed it to be the kind of place where a band can go play together and just be totally disconnected from the rest of the world, and he could capture everything in a way that wouldn't be, I guess, detrimental based on the fact that it's live recording or whatever. So he has it set up in a very, very clever way to where you can do anything you need, but it's all in one room, and there's just this amazing vibe, and it's just, I'm not doing it justice. Matt. It's like a mad science lab and he built the fucking place. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:44:38):

I'll definitely check that out.

Speaker 2 (00:44:39):

So you're coming to the summit?

Speaker 3 (00:44:40):

Of course.

Speaker 2 (00:44:41):

I'm excited about that. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:44:42):

That'll be fun this year. That'll be a good one.

Speaker 2 (00:44:44):

I don't know if you're aware, and if you're not, then you're going to hear it here first, but you're on opening night.

Speaker 3 (00:44:53):

I had no idea, but I will be ready, I think.

Speaker 2 (00:44:58):

Yeah, we'll talk about it. You and Joel will be opening it. I figured that Joel will. Wow. Everybody with just the fucking presence of Joel.

Speaker 3 (00:45:08):

Oh, he's great.

Speaker 2 (00:45:09):

We figure that then you can Wow. Everybody with remind them the other reason they're here because coming for two things, they're coming to make friends and network and turn these relationships that they have online into real life things, but they're also there to watch some of the baddest motherfuckers in audio do their thing and learn from them. So I think laying down a vulgar display of power mixing wise in that first evening, I think we'll set the tone very nicely.

Speaker 3 (00:45:41):

Oh, that'll be fun. That'll be fun. No, I'm looking forward to it. So I had a great time last year, and this year I'm about 15 pounds lighter just because I didn't come off prednisone for five days, you know what I mean, after beating cancer. So I was huge. I was all puffed up, and I had just finished my last chemotherapy

Speaker 2 (00:46:02):

Weren't a huge compared to me, but I'm 60 pounds lighter.

Speaker 3 (00:46:05):

Oh, I know you've been dropping weight. It's good Lord. You can look awesome,

Speaker 2 (00:46:10):

Or still a long way to go, but it is, yeah, 60 down since then and probably another 30 by the time we meet up. That's

Speaker 3 (00:46:18):

Great, dude, that's great. But you know what? It was a great time last year, you know what I mean? Got to meet a bunch of cool people, and I'm looking forward to it this year. I think a lot of the same people are coming back. I've talked to a few that are returning this year.

Speaker 2 (00:46:32):

You mean audience members?

Speaker 3 (00:46:34):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:46:34):

I'd say that we've got like 65%, 70% return rate on the audience members and a whole lot of new ones. I mean, there's way more people this year. We've got at least as of now, 50 more people than last year.

Speaker 3 (00:46:50):

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (00:46:51):

So it's already a sizably larger group.

Speaker 3 (00:46:54):

Oh, that's going to be really, really fun. I've kept in touch with a lot of, should I say students or attendees? What's the correct

Speaker 2 (00:47:02):

Students, students, students, attendees, whatever. Well, I mean, I think that's really cool though. That's one of the things that we've always said about the networking aspect is that obviously you wouldn't have kept in touch with weirdos or whatever, but you actually made some buddies there

Speaker 3 (00:47:18):

Who

Speaker 2 (00:47:18):

Have now kept up with you,

Speaker 3 (00:47:19):

And every time somebody comes through Nashville, I do my darnedest to make sure they can swing by. There's been a couple times on the weekends when somebody's like, Hey, Decker, we're in town. Me and my buddies, or me and my wife we're from the summit, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh gosh, man, I'm out doing, I got a list of honey dos. Dude, if we would've done this during the week, that would've been great, but for the most part, everybody that's hit me up, I'd like to think that they were able to swing by and at least grab a beer, at least say hi. Went out to dinner with a couple folks that I met at the summer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've tried to keep in touch through Facebook with a lot of 'em, and even some of the moderators and stuff I've kept in touch with. Even one of the photographers that was down there filming some stuff for the summit last year, I've kept in touch with them as well. So it's been cool. I met a bunch of really cool people and have turned them into friends. I can be honest.

Speaker 2 (00:48:19):

That's great. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:48:20):

I

Speaker 2 (00:48:20):

Mean that's the point of the whole thing. We were, we don't make any money off it, man. It's a strict break even at best. It's

(00:48:28):

Really expensive for us to put on. So the way that we look at it is what can we do to make this real life? We do think we're better than modern recording schools, but the thing that they have over us is real life that a real facility, this is our answer. This is how we can take things off the internet and help people make actual friends out of that online peer group and give them a chance to actually talk to these instructors that have come on now the mix and actually network and in a situation that is for them as opposed to Nam, where Nam, if you're going up to your hero, you're going to be in a line. You might get five minutes with them and it's not for you. They're at Nam for them for whatever reason. This is all about the attendees.

Speaker 3 (00:49:22):

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. My only regret from last year's summit is like I said, I had just finished up chemo and I was still taking all those steroids for my last chemo thing, so I couldn't drink a drop of alcohol of any kind, and I had so many people going, dude, can I buy you a beer? Can I buy you a shot of whiskey? I was like, no, better not. Back then, I was keeping it on the down low as well, just to make sure I got through all that cancer nonsense, which I am back a hundred percent. Everything's all good,

Speaker 2 (00:49:54):

So great. Nobody

Speaker 3 (00:49:55):

Has to worry about anything, but this year I'm going to try to double down and get back all that whiskey and beer I left last year.

Speaker 2 (00:50:03):

That's great. Well, real quick, man, we've got a few questions from the audience. Do you have a moment to

Speaker 3 (00:50:09):

Answer? Oh, absolutely. Come on, start firing 'em.

Speaker 2 (00:50:11):

Okay. Well, you did kind of answer this one. Okay. But just in case you feel like elaborating. Alexander Carpets says, how's your health doing, Billy?

Speaker 3 (00:50:21):

Like I said, a hundred percent I have to go back every six months and just get a PET scan for the first couple years, but the last one I just had, the oncologist was like, dude, it looks like you didn't even have cancer. So I'm a hundred percent, a hundred percent. Thank you for asking. That's too cool of you. Andrew

Speaker 2 (00:50:41):

Ruben Sanchez wondering, do you ever feel frustrated with work and life balance? How do you manage to do both?

Speaker 3 (00:50:49):

Reuben, I look forward to seeing you again, buddy. I remember you very well. When I don't work enough, I get frustrated. When I work too much, I get frustrated. So I would say get a hobby. That's why I like all that woodwork and stuff with those cutting boards you guys always see me talking about or making. I also just, believe it or not, I like just mowing my grass. You know what I mean? So working in the yard that takes it out of you. I would say just make a balance and once you find a balance, everything's fine. What's funny is if work is slow, the other day it was like, I've always said this, the dream is dead. Everybody hates Billy Decker phone hadn't rang for three days. I got nothing to mix. So my wife's like, well take the day off, blah, blah, blah. So I took the day off. The phone rang five times, and I've got work for the next three weeks. You know what I mean? So it's weird how when you're not out there just thinking about it or waiting for it, it happens. So I would say find yourself a hobby or just get away from it and keep the balance. It always works out. It always will work out.

Speaker 2 (00:51:55):

Here's a cool one, man, this is a good question, and I've wondered about stuff like this too, because people are nuts. Let's just be real. People are nuts. So here's one from Matt Kool, which is how have you dealt with disgruntled clients? What are tactics you use to diffuse the situation to keep everyone happy and continue to stay motivated through the rest of the project?

Speaker 3 (00:52:19):

As far as disgruntled clients, I will say what I always say, and I do the same thing today, the client is always right, even when they're wrong. Your job as a recording engineer or a mix engineer is to provide a service. It doesn't matter what they say or what they do. All you're contracted to do is provide that service. Now, if you've got to go above and beyond, it doesn't matter if they berate you, belittle you, if they're not happy, it doesn't matter. All you're doing is providing a service. I always tell everybody, this is the music business, not the music buddy. So provide the service. Do whatever you have to do to keep your phone ringing and to keep the clients happy so that they tell other people and they come back. What you're doing today, tomorrow, you get to move on to a next project.

(00:53:07):

Say you're finishing up a project, or in my case, I mix a different thing every day. I get to move on and start mixing another record. So the client has to live with this. It's their music for the rest of their life, let's say, okay, this is their life, that's their career. My career is just to provide a service and to do the best I can. I am not going to lose sleep or get in a battle over, say a kick drum volume or kick drum sound. I put it a certain level. The client comes in and says, dude, I hate that kick drum sound. It's way too cliquey. It sounds metal. This is a country record. And I say, well, I learned that on nail the mix. Call aol. It's his fucking fault. Don't talk to me. No, I'm not going to do that. Of course, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to say, oh, it's too clicky. Okay, let me dole it out.

Speaker 2 (00:53:54):

I can't wait to get that phone call.

Speaker 3 (00:53:57):

Let me bring the volume down. My point being is I'm not going to sit there and argue with them. It doesn't matter. You know what I mean? They're the boss. I'm the employee. Now, maybe if you were in a producing slash engineering thing where you had some backend money, and I don't want to say more vested interest, but more long lasting interest, then maybe your opinion would matter more in a situation like that. But nine times out of 10 for me, I just say absolutely and I just do whatever I can to keep 'em happy. I would not sit there and argue and whine and moan, and the last thing I'm going to do is get on the internet and start bitching about it. Good Lord, do not air dirty laundry on Facebook or on the internet. That's the dumbest thing to do.

Speaker 2 (00:54:46):

I completely, completely agree.

Speaker 3 (00:54:49):

Oh, I've seen that so many times. It's like people get on there and they start bitching about something they were working on that day, and I'm like, okay, you just ended your career.

Speaker 2 (00:54:59):

Have fun. I had a big falling out with somebody a few years ago and that somebody went on the extreme offensive online about me, like all kinds of lies and just brutal, brutal stuff. And my inclination was to jump in and tell the truth

Speaker 3 (00:55:20):

What

Speaker 2 (00:55:21):

Actually happened. I was really pissed. But I remember from my dad, when my dad had a problem in the nineties, he had a problem with the musicians union

Speaker 3 (00:55:33):

Where

Speaker 2 (00:55:34):

Some contract renegotiation stuff and it got real nasty. Real fucking nasty.

Speaker 3 (00:55:40):

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:55:40):

And he never sank to the level, never attacked anybody in public, never took the bait. And I just decided, I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going there. I'm not going to say a word. I mean maybe privately to very close friends if they really do think that these lies are real. I'll explain to my friends what happened. But otherwise nothing, radio silence.

Speaker 3 (00:56:04):

And I bet that situation disappeared faster than you could snap a finger at, didn't it? Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:56:09):

It could have been faster, but it had a lot of energy to it, so it took a while to dissipate. I mean, I'm sure I haven't heard the last of it yet, but it's pretty much gone at this point. And I can only tell you that if I had responded,

Speaker 3 (00:56:24):

Oh, that old saying silence is golden, there's some truth to that, isn't there?

Speaker 2 (00:56:28):

Yeah, exactly. Let that flame burn itself out.

Speaker 3 (00:56:31):

Yeah. It's so much easier to just take the high road, kill 'em with kindness and just move on to the next project. So there's always going to be problems, but just don't be an adult. Don't sit there and squabble and argue, and I'm right. You're wrong. Nobody cares. You know what I mean? Do your job, get paid and move on to the next project. That's the best way to deal with it.

Speaker 2 (00:56:53):

And if someone's disgruntled, it might be a hundred percent their fault. Sure. But it also might have to do with something that you did that's entirely likely. And so very rarely are there situations that are 100% one person's fault. When we're talking about interpersonal relationships, there's usually a series of events which leads to somebody being disgruntled. And so it really does help, in my opinion, first of all, not online, in person or on the phone. It helps to hear and understand and really empathize with this person or understand where they're coming from. They might just have misunderstood something you said or misunderstood a direction you wanted to go or whatever It could be. A lot of problems, often don't need to be problems and a little bit of communication can solve them. Now, some problems will always be problems and

Speaker 3 (00:57:52):

Got

Speaker 2 (00:57:52):

To defend yourself, but I do believe in deescalation and by owning up to things that could be your fault, and just

Speaker 3 (00:58:00):

Putting

Speaker 2 (00:58:01):

Yourself in the shoes of the other person and understanding why they might be mad about something because shit, they might be right.

Speaker 3 (00:58:07):

I've got a really novel idea. How about you don't lie, you don't cheat, you don't steal, say what you're going to do and then do it. Oh wow, what is that? Like a new That's

Speaker 2 (00:58:19):

Crazy, man.

Speaker 3 (00:58:20):

That's crazy. Is that a new concept?

Speaker 2 (00:58:22):

Come up with that yourself.

Speaker 3 (00:58:23):

Yeah, who did? My dad and mom and I tell you what, they raised me a certain way, so maybe I have an advantage over someone else, but I guarantee you that's a pretty universal concept out there. So just be a good person. I mean, come on, think about it. It's not that hard.

Speaker 2 (00:58:44):

And if you approach things from that paradigm of being a good person,

Speaker 3 (00:58:48):

Even

Speaker 2 (00:58:49):

When you do fuck up and piss someone off and are the party at fault, it's a lot easier to resolve the scenario.

Speaker 3 (00:58:57):

And

Speaker 2 (00:58:57):

Then also, if it's not your fault, and so other person's fault, approaching it from I'm going to try to be the best person possible,

Speaker 3 (00:59:05):

Will

Speaker 2 (00:59:06):

Keep you from doing things that will escalate things. It'll help you help the other person off the ledge or you know what I'm saying? It'll help you find a win-win.

Speaker 3 (00:59:17):

Yeah. And remember, word of mouth is going to be your best calling card better than anything. So say you're sorry if you're wrong, if you screwed up, just admit it. Say you're sorry, fix it and move on. It's that easy. It's not rocket science

Speaker 2 (00:59:32):

Saying you're sorry is very powerful.

Speaker 3 (00:59:33):

Oh, good lord. I do it every day at home. Of course. That's why I've been married for 26 years.

Speaker 2 (00:59:40):

There you go. There's the secret.

Speaker 3 (00:59:42):

All right, next question,

Speaker 2 (00:59:42):

Ryan Carrow is wondering, what keeps you motivated to keep pumping out these chart topping albums? Are there ever days where you just don't feel it? Do you take the day off if that happens to you, or do you just push through it a

Speaker 3 (00:59:55):

Little? Both. What keeps me going is hearing something that I can't do and then trying to figure out how to do it that keeps me going. What also helps me barrel through is yes, there are days where it's just like, oh, I'm done. My ears hurt, I'm done. And sometimes, yeah, I'll cut out early and just go, it's a music business. There's nothing that needs to be done today that we can't do tomorrow before business hours. So if I'm burned, everybody burns out. But as far as keeping motivated, I have a pretty easy time because it's a really, at the end of the day, if you stop and think about it, I get paid to listen to music all day long and just play with music and I enjoy it. So that makes it really, really easy. There are other jobs where I'm sure people feel the same way.

(01:00:46):

It doesn't have to just be in the music business. I always tell everybody I got the greatest job in the world. But in essence, if you love what you do, you have the greatest job in the world. But finding stuff that I can't do and then trying to figure out how to do it keeps me motivated. Also, every once in a while, producing an act keeps me motivated. So if I'm just mix, mix mixing, sometimes I need that creative, the urge to create and watch something grow from inception to finished product and I'll dive in. And I've actually been doing a little more of that lately than I have been, but I've been doing it more in the rock world, you know what I mean? Because in country, I don't want to piss off my buddies that hire me, so I don't want to tread their lane or tread in their water. So I try to do it in maybe another format or something.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):

Pressure and fear helps me,

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):

But I don't have fear. So remember I have

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):

No fear anymore. For instance, with the summit coming up, the summit is like 95% me in terms of putting it together. So some guys might make a graphic or two, somebody might run some ads or some shit. But when it comes down to it, I'm doing all the work for that thing and it's on me, man. That's fear. If the fear of it not being ready,

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):

That kind of thing, no, it's not fear. You're not like fear like watching Halloween, like the Michael Myers is chasing, not that kind of fear, but

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):

Maybe it's pressure.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):

There you go. That's better because last year I thought everything ran like clockwork. I thought it was smooth as silk. It was one of the more,

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):

Actually the other guys were scared and didn't know if I was going to be able to do this.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):

I thought it was fantastic as far as the coordination and the timing and the layouts, and I mean, you had me fooled, dude. Good lord. I thought you had event coordinators for days helping you with that bad boy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):

If only the problem this year is that everyone's so comfortable with the job I did last year than I'm getting even less help.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):

Oh, there you go. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):

But it's going to be fine.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):

Maybe we are talking real fear. No, it'll be awesome. It'll be great. Dude.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):

We've gotten new challenges this year because there's more people. So we're not going to be busing back and forth to the studio because we can't fit in those studio rooms anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):

That's

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):

Not an option. As you know, there was barely enough room last year, so it's all going to take place in the hotel, which is both a blessing and a curse. So having to build a control room inside of a hotel

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):

On stage is

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):

Quite an interesting thing. So here's one from Jack Hartley.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):

Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):

Even though you have an amazing system of templates and have been a Jedi ninja level chart topping mixmaster for years, let me say that again. Jedi ninja level, hold on. Jedi ninja level chart topping. Wow, Jedi ninja level chart topping, mix master for years. Do you ever have those days where you just feel like your ears are off and nothing is working for you?

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):

Yes, absolutely. One word answer yes happens to everybody. And then what you do is you either cut out early, come back the next day. I tell you what, get a good eight hours of sleep that will really help. You know what I mean? If your sleep is not on, then boy, I tell you what, I do not work good unless I've had at least eight hours to decompress from the day before. So for me, every day is like going to a rock concert, you know what I mean? I probably monitor too loud, but I think we all do. I go up and down of course, and then flip over to the boombox, but I need at least eight hours for my ears to feel unclogged or clear or whatnot. And if that doesn't do it, then you just power through. Just take breaks. But yeah, absolutely. And sometimes I'll be mixing and even with the templates and stuff like that, and it just doesn't sound like it should sound. So I am lucky where I'll do multiple different projects in one day. So if something's not working, you know what I do? I hit save, close, open up the other one, start rocking on maybe a different genre, and then all of a sudden I get into a vibe, everything starts clicking and I can go back to the other one. It's like, oh yeah, I should have done this.

(01:05:23):

Mixing is almost as much a state of mind as it is a state of hearing or state of ears. If you get rid of a lot of extraneous stuff. If you're in a funk or a rut, shut the computer down, change the channel on the tv, get up, go grab something to drink, make a cup of coffee, tea, whatever. Take a shot of whiskey. I don't care. Just get yourself out of it and then, or take a break, come back and take a break. Or to be honest with you, you know what I've done a lot of times I will put on some music that I'm not mixing, listen to that, get into a vibe, and nine times out of 10, it's a heavy vibe. So I'll listen to something angry that'll piss you off, make you want to go to the supermarket and punch old ladies in the fruit aisle or something and then come back and start crushing it again. The crushing the term crushing comes from Joel

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):

And he does crush.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):

Oh yeah, he crushes all the time. There you go. Joel, there's your shout out.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):

Kirk Wells says Billy, my man. What are your thoughts on parallel compression? I've recently been trying it on my drums and I really like the way I can manipulate the transient coming through. I noticed machine uses this technique on his mixed bus prior to hitting his stereo out channel to have an inside and outside. He smashes the inside and leaves the outside, so he is still able to still have those transient poke through. Have you tried parallel on your mixed bus like this before? You haven't seen it yet, so I would say that you should watch his episode

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):

To

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):

Fully

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):

Get it. Oh, I'll definitely watch. And that is what sounds like Jedi mixmaster stuff, not what I do. The only thing I parallel compress is the drums, and I don't run any symbols or the high hats through it, so it's just kick snare toms, I've got a smash track, an unadulterated track, and then those go into a drum bus and then they go right to the two mix. And the only other thing I parallel compress is the background vocals. That's it. So I know a lot of people do instrument buses and parallel and they're set up and what I've found is there's about 90 million ways to skin a cat. And as long as you end up with a skin cat, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how you get there. And if it sounds good, if your skin cat sounds good, then it's right.

(01:07:53):

So machine may need to do the parallel inside outside thing for him to be happy with it. Me, I don't even know what that means. So I tend to just be happy with what I do and I can get my stuff wide and stuff. And then I know a couple other dudes that have so much paralleling on, I can't even route it. I've opened up their sessions and I'm like, good lord, what is going on? And I've tried different ways and different methods, and the thing I found is there really is no right or wrong way. I know guys that use no parallel compression and their stuff sounds awesome. And I'm like, well, how in the world did they do that? And it's just all about balancing. So like I said, there's a million ways to get there. It's just find the way that's good for you and then boom, you're there. As long as you get there, who cares how you get there?

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):

I agree. So Eric Burt's wondering, despite having such a quick workflow and the decorator, you've always seemed willing to embrace change and try new things. Can you give us an example of a new plugin or technique you've tried recently that is a staple of your workflow currently? Also, is there one that you tried and couldn't find good use for?

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):

Yes, I tried a fab filter something and I hated the interface so bad that I gave up after about three minutes of using it. So to me, easability of using and if something looks cool, you almost may be able to sell me on a plugin almost like an infomercial, you know what I mean? If I see a bed that looks cool late at night on tv, I'm going to order the damn thing even if I haven't slept in it yet because it looks so cool. So I guess that's the power of graphics and advertising. As far as plugins go, one plugin that I use that is now a staple, I'll be honest, is Joey, your partner? Joey Sturgis's Gain Reduction. I used it on Rodney Atkins new single, which is at 38 this week. And I used to always use an 1176 on my vocal chain and four to one super slow, super fast. I have now started using gain reduction on it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):

It's a good plugin.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):

It really is. And you know what I like best about it? It's one knob. All you do is lift up the, I forget what it's called. Is it the threshold or no, it's slay the slay button. All you do is lift up slay and it just starts working. So I used it on Rodney's, he loved it, and after hearing it back on the radio, I'm like, wow, that really takes your vocal and just pulls it to the forefront. So I've started using that. So there's an example of one that was easy to use that looks cool, and the other one, I'm sure fab filter is great, but I couldn't figure out how to use the damn thing. So I was like, fuck it, I'm throwing it away.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):

I mean, there's no one size fits all. Fabio Deus is wondering, are there any recent mixes you've done with metal genre metal drum samples that went undetected by us? And how do they differ in your technical approach from say, working with your usual sample set?

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):

That's funny you ask. I mixed a song by a guy named Sam Hunt and he had a song called Downtown's Dead. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I take that back. I did that too, but I didn't use, I'm thinking of another song back to the Rodney Atkins thing. There is a breakdown Fabio toward the end, right? Oh gosh. It's right before the vocal breakdown in the song's called Caught Up in the Country. I didn't use a metal sample, but I did use a sample that was given to me by Mike Shipley, God Rest his Soul that he actually made and was on the Hysteria album for Def Leppard. It was the snare drum, and I think I'm one of probably four people other than the other three that have it. But anyway, I actually blended that Def Leppard snare drum into the breakdown and I ran it about half volume.

(01:11:58):

If I ran it way up. It was so out of context, it didn't work, but it works. It's the, it's pour some sugar on me snare, you know what I mean? And I ran that at half volume and it just sits in there. So cool. And you almost have to, if you don't know what it is or if it's there, you'll never detect it. But now that I just let the cat out of the bag, that's my homage to the great Mike Shipley mixer who passed away, who I looked up to from this time, probably got into music and actually got to speak with him. Never met him in person, but I spoke with him over the phone. So that's one example of me hiding something in a country mix. How about that?

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):

That's pretty cool. That's

Speaker 3 (01:12:42):

Kind of fun.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):

I know sometimes you'll send me screenshots of when you've used my drums for my pack on my drum forge on a country tune. It's always like, yes.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):

I still, I actually, you know what? I didn't know that counted, but you were incorporated about four months ago. Everything I've done in the last four months, maybe five.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):

Oh wow. That much. I was totally not trying to give myself a shameless plug more so just that it humbles me when you do that. It's like, wow, okay,

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):

Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought we talked about this on another, otherwise I would've mentioned that. But yeah, I blended in your Toms, I fell in love with your Toms and now have been using them. Oh gosh, I guess I've been so long ago for me, I've forgotten about it. They're just loaded into trigger and they're just firing off. So yeah, yours were the only ones I could find that were giving me that snap that I was looking for, you know what I mean? And your stick attack. I blend in three different sounds and yours is the one that you're hearing the stick attack on.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):

Got it. I'm glad you liked them, man. I'm really happy with how those Toms came out.

Speaker 3 (01:13:52):

Oh, they were great. They're great. And I think you shared them with me probably, I think it was after the summit and I was complaining about something, one of our late night chats or something. We were talking over Facebook messenger or something and you're like, Hey, I got a set of Toms, try these out. And I ended up doing it. It was fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):

That was one of the last things I worked on before going all in with this. Well,

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):

You might have to come out of retirement for a drum pack here in the near future.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):

Well, I will. There's a drum pack I recorded for Drum Forge that Matt Brown and I did together, which is from the ground up and it's really, really good, really, really good. And it's just been sitting in limbo waiting for drum forge to get a programmer. I don't feel braggy by saying it's really good because shit, if it never comes out, then at least I got to go down saying that this drum pack I made was fucking awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):

Well, your Toms already are awesome. You've heard 'em on Country radio.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):

I think you'll like the Toms especially.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):

No, I'll use 'em. I'll use 'em. I like what you do. So come on.

Speaker 2 (01:14:59):

I actually got a lot of shit back when I was recording from some guys because of how I liked to record Toms, but I record them in a way that makes them almost mix ready. Whereas I find that your typical Tom microphone like a four twenty one, I mean you can always get it there, obviously it's a classic, but they don't pop out of the 4 21 mix ready. I always feel like they sound kind gross and you have to do a lot of work to 'em and that just bugged me. So for mine, I always try to get them straight off of the microphone, pretty close to mix ready and yeah, I don't know. It's cool. I hope it comes out. I do have another question here though. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):

Please. Is

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):

By Will Douglas, how do you approach the mastering segment of your mixes? Do you tend to send off your mixes for mastering or do you have a go-to mastering chain you like to use?

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):

I do two mixes. One with a clipper inserted in my chain and one without, and then the one without, I call Unmastered that they can send out to mastering and I just take off the limiter, the L three at the end of my chain and then the one if they do want it mastered, then I insert a clipper right before the L three and there you go, tap the L three just a little harder and that's it. Anybody that's seen the nail of the mix or has ever worked with me in the past knows I kind of am backwards where I run my master fader lower and my individual channels hotter rather than master Fader unity, gain up a zero and go into that lower level. I don't know why I do that. It's just how I've always done it and obviously it's worked, so who cares?

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):

Whatever works.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):

Yeah, exactly. So no, just throw in a clipper of your choice and just to get a little extra volume and it'll kind of square off the not clip like distorted clip, but a clipper as far as like JST clip or Event Horizon, Brian Hood hit me to that one. There's a million of 'em out there and that's pretty much it. My mixes are already loud and they're pretty well limited and compressed anyway, so it doesn't need much every time. I do send a mix a lot of times to a mastering house, especially not here in Nashville because the guys here in Nashville know what they're getting. If I send them something they're already, they know it's going to be 99% there, so they just kind of clean it up if there's any trouble spots. But a lot of times if I send something up north or out west, a lot of times they call back and say, Hey, could we have three db a headroom and loosen up that? And I'm thinking no, because I don't want you to fuck it up, but I always comply because why? That's what we do. So I give them three DB of a headroom and ship it out and keep my opinion to myself. Does that answer that

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):

Question? That's a very good answer. Before we get off here, I'm going to break some rules, but I want to talk about something that we've been talking about for a while. I just want to get some audience feedback and some audience direction on it. As you know very well, we've been talking about the idea of doing a country nail the mix. Correct? For those of you listening, the idea of the country nail the mix is not instead of the other nail the mixes, it's just so I don't want you metal heads or something to suddenly panic and be like, you're taking my medal away. We're not taking your medal away. I promise your medal will not be taken. But we were talking about the idea of possibly adding on top of that country based nail the mix more Billy Decker, and also getting some of Billy's amazing friends on, so like I said, more Billy Decker as well as Billy plus his friends, and really delve into this genre more because as we were saying before, the standards are just so high and these mixes sound so amazing.

(01:18:58):

And to be able to have it taught in the way that now the mix is taught, I think would help you guys tremendously. It's something that I'd like to get going in the next year. So I want to get just some response. If you're in the Private Producers club, which is the private Facebook group for now, the mix subscribers, just tag me or Billy and let's talk about it. We'd love to hear some of your ideas for it and what you'd like to see happen because remember, like I said, this is not, we're not talking about doing February is Country month or something like that. We're not looking to do anything instead of anything else. We're thinking about adding on a whole new thing. And so we want to hear some feedback from you guys and get where your heads are at about it. I think it would be a great thing, but let's hear what you guys think. And with that, do you have anything to say about that, bill?

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):

I think you also mentioned, and it might be good to get some feedback on this too, of actually actually having me host a few of those country nail the mix, just because

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):

I didn't mention that yet with Billy as the host.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):

Yeah. So it might be kind of interesting to see if people would be into that as well, or if they're like, no, we can't stand Decker. We hate his voice. We know how damn handsome he is, but we don't want to see him anymore on camera or hear his voice.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):

I mean, I think the idea of having you host Nail the mixes with some of the top dudes in country or pop country would be amazing. And of course for everyone wondering there us now the mix, we would URM would be there to make sure it's just as good as everything else we do.

Speaker 3 (01:20:53):

Yeah. In a way it may be cool because I've kind of blended or blurred the lines between rock and country already by stepping into your guys' world. So if somebody does say we're doing a country nail the mix and they chime in with a question about say, splitting that bass guitar, you know what I mean? I'll be able to relay that in maybe a country way, whereas somebody that didn't know what was going on with the country world that knows we don't do that here sometimes. You know what I mean? So it might be kind of cool just for me to be able to, not moderate, but be able to understand a metal question and turn it into a country question. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):

Yes sir. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:21:41):

So just food for thought,

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):

Guys, please do talk to us about this online. We want to hear your thoughts. I personally think it'll be a phenomenal thing. We're doing it either way, but I want to want to get your feedback on it. We always like to know where you guys are at. But Billy, thank you for coming on the podcast again.

Speaker 3 (01:22:03):

Thank you for having me. Always a pleasure to talk to you and my 4,500 friends out there in URM Land.

Speaker 2 (01:22:10):

All right, man, well, we'll be seeing you soon. Awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):

Talk to you later.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):

This episode of the Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast has been brought to you by tele fun electroacoustic Tele Funken. Electroacoustic has been following the tradition of excellence and innovation set forth by the original tele Funken GM BH of Germany that began over 100 years ago with one foot rooted in the rich history of the brand and the other in new microphone innovations for both stage and studio applications. Tele Funken, electro Acoustic is recognized as one of the industry leaders in top quality microphones. For more info, go to tunk.com. This episode was also brought to you by Fascination Street. Mastering Studios have your songs mastered by Jens Ian and Tony Lin. The engineers that mastered bands like Ope di Bo, gear Arch, enemy Creator SE Torah, am Mono Marth, and many more. By using the coupon code UR M1 eight in the online Mastering configurator, you'll receive a 15% discount on your order. The code is valid for the rest of the year. Visit www.fascinationstreet.se to learn more and book your mastering session today. If you like the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, make sure you leave us a review, subscribe and send us a message if you want to get in touch.