BILL HUDSON: Hitting rock bottom, getting sober, and joining Trans-Siberian Orchestra

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by two notes. Audio Engineering two notes is a leader in the market for load box, cabinet, and mic simulators garner the days of having iso rooms or having to record an amp at ear bleeding volumes to capture that magic tone. The Torpedo Live reload and studio allow you to crank your amp up as loud as you want, but record silently. Check out www.two-notes.com for more info. And now your

Speaker 2 (00:00:32):

Host, Eyal Levi. Alright, welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast. I am Eyal Levi, and with me is Mr. Bill Hudson, guitarist for the Trans-Siberian Orchestra. How are you doing?

Speaker 3 (00:00:45):

I'm great, man. How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:00:46):

Doing great. Happy to talk to you. Sorry that I was such a flake the last two days, but shit happens. This shit happens. I'm not normally like that, but I wanted to bring you on here because you've kind of achieved some pretty incredible things and we have a big subscriber community who, some are doing great, some feel really down on themselves who maybe they got into recording or music, they feel like they got in too old or they have too many things stacked against them, or they just came to this country and have no money and don't know anybody or whatever. And you basically, I don't want to sound rude, but you came here, you're a fat alcoholic and you worked your way from local bands to being completely clean, looking like a model and being in one of literally the biggest bands on the planet. I know you own a house now and drive a really nice car, and so it's kind of like you are living the American dream basically. The same thing that my parents did and that I know a lot of great people have done, and you've done it in just a few years, which is really, really impressive. So I wanted to talk about your journey and your transformation and how you got the willpower to fix yourself and overcome not just personal obstacles, but geographical obstacles and music industry obstacles.

(00:02:26):

So first off, congrats on everything.

Speaker 3 (00:02:29):

Thank you very much, man. And I appreciate the words immensely. It means a lot. And actually hearing a little bit, I will tell you why this is another accomplishment for me. It's funny because as you were talking about the difficulties that most musicians face, I've been through each and every one of the things you said. I was born and raised in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and like you said, I was a fat kid. I grew up, but I went to Rich Kids School, you know what I mean? And I wanted to be a metal guitar player in 1997 when kids are all into electronic music in Brazil, and there was a lot of, back then society was a little different too. So Bowling Wasn wasn't a monster. It is now where people bully another kid, he gets reprimanded or whatever. Back in my day, if you're a fat kid, you're supposed to get bullied. That was kind of the culture, especially in Brazil.

Speaker 2 (00:03:33):

And it's not like you didn't have a huge support system of celebrities defending

Speaker 3 (00:03:40):

You back then. Yes, exactly. That's what I mean. In fact, the celebrities were telling you to lose weight. That was the thing. At the same time, I got really into rock music and I always identified myself with the American culture. It's something that a lot of foreigners say, and I meet a lot of foreigners here all the time that say that too. It's like, well, I started watching American movies or listening to American music and I wanted to make it in America. And I mean, that's kind of what it was. But at the same time, I also, my favorite music back around that time, and well still to this day was European Power Metal. Nothing like the American market

Speaker 2 (00:04:29):

Back then. The American market for hard stuff was like new metal,

Speaker 3 (00:04:34):

Like biz. It was really big at the time. And those bands and well, I love the first Lincoln Park cracker. I love a lot of the corn stuff, but I didn't get a lot into New metal. And especially being a 15-year-old fat kid from Brazil who played guitar fast, that's the last thing I wanted to listen to. So I liked Halloween, I liked Stradivari, and I basically was on my own. I had no friends or girls, didn't have any interest in me, so I just practiced guitar all day. That's basically what I did. And I was talking about the American culture thing. At the same time, I was thinking, how is it that a big country like this one, nobody can make it in music, especially heavy music out here when we have URA and we have GRA and that's it, nobody else. But the main reason that from my point of view that bands weren't able to succeed in Brazil was because Brazilians were basically only open to bands that come from outside. Now, I did a podcast with Doc Coyle, and when I brought this up, he's like, well, New Jersey is the same way. So we used to say, we're not a local band. I'm like, you don't understand. You don't understand any band that here in the US gets a hundred people or less. We'll get 2000 people in Brazil, any band, but no bands in Brazil can get any success because of the mindset that they have that the foreigners are so much better.

Speaker 2 (00:06:13):

Dude, I can tell you from my experience, basically anywhere south of Mexico. That's true. Without fail. I was on a tour with Dark Funeral once, the black metal band. Okay, so you can guess. Yeah, exactly. You can guess how some of those shows were in the us. I mean, some of them maybe had 250 people and the bad ones had 30 people.

Speaker 3 (00:06:40):

It

Speaker 2 (00:06:41):

Was one of those tours, and we go to El Salvador and it's like 3000 people.

Speaker 3 (00:06:47):

Dude, it's really ridiculous. It's a weird mentality that I've never been able to figure out. Even being out of Brazil for over a third of my life now, I go back with the bands and people speak English to me and I respond in Portuguese. I'm like, dude, I'm Brazilian. We met 10 years ago at this very bar, but it's so weird. It's a very odd thing to try and explain to a foreigner, and I never succeeded at it.

Speaker 2 (00:07:16):

So you had to get out?

Speaker 3 (00:07:17):

Yeah, essentially. Oh, especially because too, what was going on at the time was anger was really big, and the reason they were really big was because the only rock magazine in the country was their manager too. So any other album that came out, they trashed in the magazine and put anger in the cover. So I'm like, you can't fight that. You can't fight that system. And then people in Brazil, oh, whatever, we don't need it. No, you fucking do. They're the media. You don't fight that. There's two things you can do. Either you can just not be a musician or you try to play the game. And that's when I figured out that I had to either go to Europe or the US either or my favorite music was European, but I figured the language would be a problem. So I was like, well, yeah, eventually I'll learn German or whatever, but I speak English, not perfect, but well enough to communicate right now. So maybe I should try to get to the States

Speaker 2 (00:08:18):

And it's in a similar time zone.

Speaker 3 (00:08:20):

Yeah, yeah. Actually, the culture was another thing too, because now knowing Europe as well as I do, I'm like, if I try to move to Germany back then, I would die of depression because I wouldn't see be any Walmart or 24 hour stores or credit cards. I'll just go crazy. If I did it back then,

Speaker 2 (00:08:44):

Yeah, the US is definitely a lot easier to assimilate into,

Speaker 3 (00:08:51):

Dude. And plus it is the best place to live because he's got everything. He is, got a little bit of every culture. It is amazing. So I started trying to figure out a way to get to the US because I couldn't just come out and not have anything, although I did try that and I came here for six months and didn't really do much. I went to MI for three months, didn't like it, and

Speaker 2 (00:09:20):

Why not?

Speaker 3 (00:09:20):

Oh man, that's one of my biggest regrets. I just thought it was too good.

Speaker 2 (00:09:26):

You thought you were too good?

Speaker 3 (00:09:27):

Yeah, honestly, I thought because in Brazil where I was, nobody really played guitar, so it was really easy to just play some fast in lick and have people freak out. So I came here with that mentality that was that good. And I went to MI and I did, did a few classes, but the material itself at the time, maybe I was a little more advanced than that, but it was the whole experience that I missed out on. And when I went back to talk about actually doing a clinic there, I saw it. I'm like, fuck, I should have studied here. Because it is a great experience. It is a great way for you to play with other musicians as opposed to just a computer. It's a great way for you to figure out that you're not that good,

Speaker 2 (00:10:22):

Which is important at some point in time. I remember when I went to Berkeley, I got a quick dose of reality, which was really good. It inspired me to get a lot better at guitar because in my dorm or Gus G and James Malone, James Malone from ais, in case anybody was wondering,

Speaker 3 (00:10:46):

They used to have a guitar duo back then too, right?

Speaker 2 (00:10:48):

Yeah, exactly. That's when they started that, and I think it was Firewind that James Malone was in. And so those two guys are on my floor, and they're way better than I ever got a guitar. And so it was just like, boom, you're not as good as you think you are to get to work.

Speaker 3 (00:11:10):

That's exactly it. I actually got accepted at Berkeley too. I had to make that choice too, between going to Berkeley or MI back then. And I figured that MI would've been a better choice because of the location, which years later I learned wasn't that important. But again, from Brazil hearing that when you go to America, if you want to be a musician, you want to be in la, you want to be in New York. I just bought into the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (00:11:42):

So you went and you thought, fuck this.

Speaker 3 (00:11:45):

Then what happened? And

Speaker 2 (00:11:46):

What happened?

Speaker 3 (00:11:48):

I didn't like it. And basically I couldn't figure my shit out. I couldn't figure out a way to stay, and I had to go back to Brazil because my visa expired. So I went back and at this point, I'm already 20 years old and I didn't do much with my life, and my parents are like, what are you going to do? I'm like, I want to live in America. I don't want to be here. There's nothing for me here. I hate these people. I don't fucking want to be here. And then my parents, they're like, okay, but you got to figure out something. You went to school, you quit school. I mean, what the fuck are you going to do? Well, around that time, I started looking around on MySpace because again, I was aware that power metal was not a popular style in the States, but I always figured, well, if there was one band, just one that tried to do that, people would pay attention. And oddly enough, I ended up finding this band. At the time, their name was Odor, and they had just gotten assigned to Metal Blade, and right underneath that they had a Guitar Swan ad. And I'm like, okay. I mean, fuck it. I figure Metal blade again, point of view of a Brazilian, oh, they're signed. They're to a metal blade. They're going to be huge. Again, I'm living in Brazil. That's beyond my reality to get signed to Metal Blade.

(00:13:12):

And I sent them an email and I said, whatever I want to try out for the position. And I get an email back saying that they have someone. And I emailed them back and I said, unless you have Steve Vibe a better choice, dude, I gave me an audition. And then he sends me drum tracks, just program drum tracks into the songs. And he's like, okay, well record yourself. Play over this and send it back. And this is 2004. So videos weren't that common or 2005 or whatever it was. So I did, I recorded all.

Speaker 2 (00:13:43):

So he wanted you to make a video or

Speaker 3 (00:13:46):

Any sort of recording. And I had at the time, I'm pretty sure it was Sonar four or something, and I recorded myself playing the songs and sent it back and Oh, yeah. And then he's like, well, where are you from? We were based in Nebraska. And I was like, where the fuck is Nebraska? That was literally my first reaction. I'm like, I know, dude,

Speaker 2 (00:14:10):

I still don't know where Nebraska is.

Speaker 3 (00:14:12):

It is at the dead center of the country, dude, two states above, two below and two each side. It's the dead center. Yeah, it's incredible how central it is, but I was like, I don't care. It's the United States. I don't give a fuck where it is. So for some reason, well, not for some reason, because I had been there a little bit too in Florida. I told them I was in Florida, and when I said that, the reaction, I was like, wow, you live so far. I'm like, wow, what if I tell them I'm in Brazil, man? Tell them the truth. Yeah. Well, so we kept talking online and scheduled an audition. I'm like, I'll tell you what, man. I'll come out for an audition. You don't have to worry about me. I don't even need a place to stay, because my parents did want to help me out. They just wanted to help me out, do the right thing. They just didn't want me to go. But I was like, Hey, let me come to the city, get me a hotel and all that. My parents hooked me up and am like, okay, I'll go out there and I'll get the job, and then we'll figure it out. And then we did the audition. I got the gig, and that was my entrance here. Yeah, it's a small band. It's a band that just got signed, but that was light years away from Mario's, even my reality.

Speaker 2 (00:15:29):

How did you find them?

Speaker 3 (00:15:30):

MySpace.

Speaker 2 (00:15:34):

Well, how much time did you spend searching?

Speaker 3 (00:15:36):

Wow, that's an interesting question because nobody's asked me that. Yeah, I spent a lot of time searching the search power metal term, but it had to be a power metal band from the us. Those were the two things that needed to happen for me too. Wasn't going to try to, A lot of my friends at the time were saying, well, if you want to move to the States, you want to play whatever new medal or the stuff, what was going on at the time. And I never thought that you cannot serve an audience. You cannot serve something to an audience that you don't really have. I never believed the whole, it's like right now with Jen, I'm seeing all these guys that play dream theater music saying, oh, man, I'm going to start playing Jen to make money. You're not going to make money. You're not going to do it. How do you know that you wrote a song when you hate it enough? It's true.

Speaker 2 (00:16:32):

That's a great way to put it.

Speaker 3 (00:16:33):

It is. But that's how I felt back then. I'm like, how the fuck am I going to play corn music if I hate that? I don't hate corn? But if that's not what I want to do, I needed to find a band that fit my style at least to have a good template to show everybody else how I can play guitar. That was kind of the thinking of the time. So I must have spent no joke, like, oh no, two weeks, three weeks, every day looking on MySpace.

Speaker 2 (00:17:04):

Yeah, that's what I figured. That must've been quite the search, because first of all, finding a power metal band in that era in the US

Speaker 3 (00:17:13):

And

Speaker 2 (00:17:13):

Then finding one that's actually pretty good,

Speaker 3 (00:17:17):

Because

Speaker 2 (00:17:17):

I'm sure you found a lot of local bands where the dudes were like 45 years old and were absolutely horrible.

Speaker 3 (00:17:25):

Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah. There was a lot of those. And it's funny because at that time, from that search, I found two bands that I wanted to contact them, and another one that even though they were in Power Metal, they always came off on the search all the time. And now I'm really good friends with them. It's the absence from Jeremy cl.

Speaker 2 (00:17:42):

Oh, yes.

Speaker 3 (00:17:43):

So that was another band that kept coming out, and I would listen to them and be like, this is not power metal. Why do they keep coming up? But I kind of liked them, and I started emailing with them back then before I ever had a career or anything. But Salvador ended up working out, and the next step was to move to Nebraska. And even though, yeah, it wasn't the coolest place to live, I still say that it Americanized the fuck out of me because I meet other people from Brazil, and I dunno, I always think that they're not quite in the culture. There's always things that are off. And especially here in Florida, in California, dude where I lived, nobody, there was no person with an accent. It was so

Speaker 2 (00:18:36):

Well, they had a Midwest accent,

Speaker 3 (00:18:39):

Which is really considered the standard why PayPal has their call center out there. They say that the people in Nebraska speak the standard English. That kind of is true. That's the way my wife speaks. She kind of talks like a telemarketer. But it was funny, I got out there and I would meet someone and this person would call me the next day, Hey, well, actually that was my wife. Hey, will you talk to my sister? I'm like, why? Well, she doesn't believe I met someone from Brazil. I talked to. I'm like, hi. What'd she say from Brazil? Yeah, I'm from Brazil. She starts laughing. I'm like, what's so funny? Oh my God, the accent ha. It was a new thing for those people. And I lived there for three years, so I learned all the terms. I moved to California. I used to call soda pop. I learned all the terms. I learned to be American living

Speaker 2 (00:19:42):

Nebraska. Was it a big culture shock for you, or

Speaker 3 (00:19:44):

Was it fun? No. Well, I liked it because I wanted to be American. I was a fanboy of America my whole life. I was the kind of guy that, yeah, America's right. I was born American then than I am now being an American citizen. And it was the right place for me to move to considering how much I hated in my current culture. And I did not like the code, but I was glad that I could finally say, I live in a place that snows because it doesn't snow. In Brazil, we only know that shit from movies. First day I saw Snow, and Dude, this is like when phones took pictures, but you couldn't really see it as you took it. You just pointed at it and click. And they look at it, flip phones, and I took a picture in the snow and sent to my mom. It was the first time I ever sent a picture message because I was like, look, I'm in the snow. I was like 21, 22 years old. It was super exciting. And then that same, oh yeah. And another thing was I really liked the Berian Orchestra, and the week I moved there, they ended up playing in Omaha. And so it was the first show I saw too in the us.

Speaker 2 (00:20:59):

Were they huge back then?

Speaker 3 (00:21:00):

They were, yeah, they were. Yeah. They were playing the same venue they played today. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:21:06):

Okay. So they were already really big.

Speaker 3 (00:21:08):

Oh, yeah. They were already really, really huge. But I went and saw the West Band, which is not the band I did the tour for,

(00:21:16):

But it is the band that had all Petre and had Johnny Lee. Those were the sabotage guys that I wanted to see. I was a huge fan of Sabotage growing up. That was one of my favorite bands, and that's really why I went to see TSO that time. I was like, because Sabotage stopped playing 2002 and basically just became TSO. That's what most of their fans still to this day don't get too. They just became TSO, that's the same band. But they started doing so good that there was no reason to do sabotage. But I mean, that's the closest thing you ever see to it. So I moved to America the same week, they're playing the place. I'm like, oh, that's amazing. I want to go see it. And that was a pretty life-changing first week for me. I remember seeing the show and being like, I want to do that. The,

Speaker 2 (00:22:07):

Well, was it your first time seeing a massive rock show?

Speaker 3 (00:22:10):

No. No. I saw, but you know what it was, it was the first time seeing a massive rock show without the hysteria of Brazil. I had seen Maiden in Brazil. Dude, it's insane. I'm not sure how the Beatles were, but I'm pretty sure they were in It's

Speaker 2 (00:22:30):

Similar,

Speaker 3 (00:22:31):

Yeah, dude, maiden.

Speaker 2 (00:22:32):

It seems similar. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:22:33):

Maiden has more power while in Brazilian soil than the President. They can shoot someone in the face and they wouldn't go to jail. It's like their plane gets close to landing, the airport has to shut down. It's ridiculous. So I've seen Maiden in Brazil. I've seen, dude, I've seen, the first show I've ever seen in my life was Michael Jackson in 93. I was 10 years old, and my mom sent me with my babysitter. I really wanted to see the show.

Speaker 2 (00:23:04):

So what was crazier Iron Maiden or Michael Jackson in Brazil?

Speaker 3 (00:23:08):

Oh, Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson. Well, but then again, perspective, it was the very first time I was seeing the international show. So for me, everything looked huge. And plus we had seats. We weren't really down there close to the show. I could only see through the binoculars, whereas I've seen Maiden a couple of times, but Maiden, I was already a little older, not by much though. The first time I saw Maden, I was 13, and it was with Blaze Bailey. But dude, when they came on stage, I started crying like a baby, and I couldn't understand why it was ridiculous. Well,

Speaker 2 (00:23:51):

I have a question about those big South American shows that I've always wondered, which is, with all the poverty in South America, and I know this firsthand, I've got a lot of family in Mexico and been there a lot,

Speaker 3 (00:24:06):

And

Speaker 2 (00:24:06):

I've just always wondered, how do the people afford the shows? Because when you see the shows, I know how poor people are, but when you see a hundred thousand people show up to a massive show, did they save up all year for it,

Speaker 3 (00:24:23):

Brother? That's one of the main questions that musicians in Brazil ask, because have you ever, I'll give you an example. I don't know how into that style you are, but have you ever heard of a band called Hi From Brazil?

Speaker 2 (00:24:37):

No, I haven't.

Speaker 3 (00:24:38):

Dude, there are band. They're so popular in the power metal gender that I heard about them here in the us. I had never heard about them in the States in Brazil. I mean, sorry. They'll play the US and do bullshit, a hundred, 150 people show or whatever, but they'll do a whole tour in Brazil. They cannot get 20 people to show up. And me with that perspective, I did an interview in Brazil this one time like this, and I was talking about it. I'm like, how do you guys have a band like that? And you don't respect it? This is fucking bullshit, blah, blah, blah. Why are people not showing up to their show? And then someone gets on the chat online, it's like, well, you're expecting that we have money to pay for every show. I'm like, when these guys play, it costs you the equivalent 10 American dollars when Metallica plays, it costs 300 American dollars, but you're there at every Metallica show.

(00:25:31):

And then the guy said, well, it's not the same thing. I'm like, that's the basis of the problem. That's based of the problem. Well, it's not the same thing, but I mean, come on, man. You say it is the same with the merchandise, with the bootleg merchandise in Brazil, people, we wear these bullshit bootleg shirts instead of buying official merchandise saying that don't have money. But when Metallica plays, they will pay 1600 AI's to be in the VIP area, and it will sell out the first day. So that is the question that everyone asks because everybody in Brazil is broke, is broken until Metallica comes to town. They're broken until Iron Maiden comes to town, they're broken. Just Bieber. There was people camping six months before in front of the stadium. Six months. Six months. Six months. And you know what happened? Jesus, two days, dude, this was hilarious. This was all over the internet. Two days before the show, the police simply switched where the line was. So everyone that was first for six months now had to get in line like everybody else. Why? That's so cruel. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, that's the way it is. In Brazil, nobody has money, but everybody has a bunch of money. My mother,

Speaker 2 (00:26:51):

Where does it come from? Don? Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:26:53):

Exactly. I don't know because these people are broke. Normally, these are people that you go out to a bar and be like, Hey, buy me a beer. But they'll have VIP seats to Iron Maiden. So it's odd. I mean, also, here's the thing, man, Brazil, and I don't know if the rest of South America is like that, because I've only been took play. I don't know a lot about the countries, but in Brazil, there's no such thing as a middle class. The style of life that I have here in America, owning a house, owning a car with my dog, with my wife, and I can pay for all my shit that doesn't exist in Brazil. If you're at that level, you're super rich in Brazil.

Speaker 2 (00:27:35):

It's the same in Mexico.

Speaker 3 (00:27:39):

If you can buy a car, well, that means probably that you have four. There's not a person in Brazil that has a car. You either have four or you have none. And so all these, and there's a lot of rich people there, unlike not a lot of people know this, but I don't, at least from my experience, there's more people with money than without money in any given situation in Brazil, as opposed to here in the States where everybody's basically the same between, I dunno, the fucking 40 grand a year and 80 grand a year. That kind of money doesn't even exist in Brazil. 40 grand a year, eight grand a year. No, you mean 200 grand a year or 10 grand a year? Yeah. So it's basically these people. It is these rich kids and all that. But I mean, that's what drives the market in Brazil. That's why Brazil is such a good market for any band. Man. I've been to Brazil with Vital Remains a death metal band that we played this place that was, I don't know, 1500 people, 2000 feet

Speaker 2 (00:28:47):

For Vital remains. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:28:49):

Well, I mean, we weren't headlining. Okay. We were headlining, but Christian was, he was us a malevolent creation. And Christian

Speaker 2 (00:28:58):

That's like good for a hundred to 150 people in the States.

Speaker 3 (00:29:02):

Oh, in Brazil, it was like 600, 700, and my hometown was like 1200.

Speaker 2 (00:29:07):

Back to your life in Nebraska. How long did you live there for?

Speaker 3 (00:29:12):

Three years. Three years. I moved there in 2005, and I left in late 2008. So yeah, three years. I was there basically at first for the band, of course, because that was the thing too. Even though I used the band as a stepping stone to get to America, so to speak, things started happening for the band back in the day. We had an album out that had a good first week. We were on Headbangers Ball for like nine weeks or something with the first video. And we toured this trivium. We toured this bullet for My Valentine, their first US tour. We were supporting that tour. We did all the remains. We did Loud Park in Japan. The label was really pushing us. The label loved the band, but internally, it was a fucking mess. We were stupid kids that should never have gotten signed to begin with. But as things started happening, I stayed. I was like, well, I mean, fuck, we are always going to be on tour anyway. Who cares where I live? I'm paying $300 rent. But then when things didn't work out and stuff went to shit with that band, and then I'm like, okay, now this place is really starting to suck.

(00:30:29):

Okay.

Speaker 2 (00:30:31):

Were you guys just touring a lot less and

Speaker 3 (00:30:34):

No, no, no. We had serious internal issues that yeah, basically nobody got along. And as we started, because Brian Sle really, really liked that band and really trusted that band for some reason, because we were not ready, and our egos started just getting out of control. All of us, myself included, all of us, and we're thinking, we're these huge rock stars when we're a fucking band playing first on a big tour. So we're hauling our gear, but acting like big shots because we're playing for 1200 people who are there for trivia.

Speaker 2 (00:31:16):

You want to know which bands I've had the most trouble with?

(00:31:20):

I think in my recording career, it's always the baby national bands. And people seem to say that the biggest egos are with local bands, and that's partly true, but if you really want to get the crazy egos, you got to get the baby band nationals because they are in that first stage of being signed and touring. And so it's all new, and they haven't felt the pain yet of having to stick it out. And so they think they're huge, and they think they're the rolling stones. The egos are out of control. I've definitely seen that before with a smaller national bands.

Speaker 3 (00:32:08):

If you talk to Eric Rutan about this band, bring it up, odor, he might freak out in front of you, because our time in the studio was ridiculous, man. It took two weeks for the drummer not to be able to record, and we finally programmed it.

Speaker 2 (00:32:25):

Oh, he tried to

Speaker 3 (00:32:26):

For two weeks, dude. And they don't,

Speaker 2 (00:32:31):

Let's talk about this a little bit, if you don't mind, because well, we talk about recording a lot on this

Speaker 3 (00:32:37):

Podcast,

Speaker 2 (00:32:38):

And one thing that lots of guys who don't understand why you have to end up programming drums sometimes is we tell them that you should know how to program drums. Because at some point, you're going to be in this situation where the drummer is just not going to be able to do it for whatever reason. Maybe his leg got cut off in a tank accident, but probably not. It probably just fucked around and didn't practice and anything in between. But you're going to end up in this situation where it's better to just program than to try. But how did it go on for two weeks?

Speaker 3 (00:33:16):

Dude? Honestly, I don't remember much because also it was my first experience in the studio, but I do remember a full day of trying to place the mic so the drummer wouldn't hit them. I do remember another full day of drummer trying to play the first song, but, well, I mean, you as a producer, I'm sure you deal with this a lot. A lot of drummers think that they can play at a certain speed, and when it comes to it, they really cannot play at that speed, but they can popcorn feed it. So when it comes to a slower speed, they'll be like, well, I actually think it's easier to play faster than slow. No. All that means is that you cannot really play that fast because the speed that you're able to play, the speed that you can maintain, don't tell me that you can play at two 70 if you do two bars at two 70, and then it's, unless you can maintain every single hit there, you cannot play that speed. So at least that's how I see it. But

Speaker 2 (00:34:22):

That's how I see it too. It's the speed you're comfortable at, not the speed that,

Speaker 3 (00:34:25):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:34:26):

Exactly. Yeah. Not the speed you're falling apart. Apart

Speaker 3 (00:34:28):

At, exactly. So this drummer, he was young and he got a lot of praise for being young. He was 16, and all these songs were around 200, 2 10, which for power metal constant, 16th notes is tiring for a drummer. But I remember, yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:34:45):

Because that's at the speed where you actually have to use muscles.

Speaker 3 (00:34:50):

Yes, you actually have to play. You can't bullshit it.

Speaker 2 (00:34:52):

You can't do the rapid twitch thing.

Speaker 3 (00:34:54):

So I remember a full day of trying to get this one song that it was at 1 75, and then the drummer kept saying that it was too slow, but the demo was programmed that 1 75, this is the speed that we should be playing this song this whole time, just because we slop it live. Well, right now, you're in the studio. You have to actually play it, and they just couldn't do it again. Like I said, we were not ready for the studio. None of us was, the songs weren't even ready back then. And after, maybe it wasn't two weeks, but it was easily a full week, and then a few days on another week of trying to get the drummer to record skipping songs. Okay, well, this song doesn't work. Which one can you play? Oh, I can play this one. All right, let's try that one. Oh, fuck. That one is not really happening until finally we ended that program, but Eric really didn't want to, and there's a lot of the beats that are from the drummer cut and paste, but the Kicks are our program. I did it. I spent the night doing it. He's like, all right, can we do it all in a day? I'm like, I guess I can.

(00:36:06):

I sat with the laptop and I did all the drums in one night, so I know what is and what isn't programmed on that record. And the funny thing too about that album is because if you listen to that album and you listen to Cannibal Corpse's skill, they were made at the same time, in the same studio, in the same room with the same gear. And the difference in sound is humongous, and it's just because they were ready and we were not. That's a good example of the musician making the difference through the same producer and studio and gear.

Speaker 2 (00:36:43):

Oh, that's dude. When people get obsessed with gear and obsessed with what kind of amp or what kind of compressor or what board are you recording through? And they focus on that more than the actual players. It's so dumb. The players make the most difference out of anything in the studio. The players make the most difference for sure. And that's the perfect example. I've had that same thing happen at my studio where we have a drum set up for one band and then have to record another band on the same drums, same setup, same microphones, everything.

Speaker 3 (00:37:22):

And

Speaker 2 (00:37:22):

It just sounds

Speaker 3 (00:37:23):

Completely different. This record versus the cannibal always pisses me off. I'm like, how is it the same? That's because we were a bad man, but you live and learn. Honestly, that experience, that experience and all the bullshit that happened internally was what made me move into the more of the session side of it. And session is not even the right word for what I do. I do a lot of touring, but people call session any guy that's not in the band and just gets paid to play. But session to me is the guy that does studio sessions, which I do too, but not as much as touring.

Speaker 2 (00:38:00):

So of being a, what's the word? A side man. That's the other term for it. That's not for metal. But I've always thought of a sideman as being the guitar player that gets called in to save the tour or save the record.

Speaker 3 (00:38:18):

Yeah, that's been me quite a few times.

Speaker 2 (00:38:21):

So you were like, man, being in a band sucks.

Speaker 3 (00:38:25):

Yeah, man. Honestly, that's what happened because I had all the bad experiences thrown at me at once on my first experience. It was like every single thing about this sucks. Every single thing.

Speaker 2 (00:38:40):

I bet you guys were making no money too, right?

Speaker 3 (00:38:42):

Oh dude. Okay. That one, for example, we went out Metal Blade booked as a tour, like a test tour bullshit bars around the us. You guys are going to drive all your gear and play these bars. The thing they do to break in a band, and when we were about two weeks before leaving or whatever, metal blade is like, you guys got everything ready? The merch, oh, we don't really have merch. We need that. Oh, man. Okay. No. So I'm giving an example of the kind of experience we had. So I had this girl, I knew this girl that made t-shirts, just made t-shirts out of her house or whatever, and I got maybe a hundred or 200 made quickly because I knew her, and then the guys didn't like the shirts and didn't want to pay for it. I'm like, you know what? I'm going to pay for all this and I'm going to make all the money.

(00:39:34):

Everybody cool with it? Yeah, sure enough, all the shirts sold out. I made all the money. Then they got pissed that the tour ended and I had money and nobody else had money. I was like, wait a second. I said this at the beginning that I was going to pay for the shirts, but I was going to make all the money, but it's the band. You wouldn't make the money if it wasn't for the band name. It is a product. It's a fucking T-shirt that I sold, like a store you were offered to chip in. You said, no, so you don't make any of the money. Is that really too hard to understand? Dude, that kind of shit. I was like, I just can't deal with that. I want to be in a band. I want to play shows, but I really don't want to deal with that shit. So that's when I started. I was like, I'll go after the big dogs. The big dogs will need guitar players. Instead of doing all this lag work and doing bullshit band tours, I'll go play for the, they already did that.

Speaker 2 (00:40:28):

So at this point, where were you in terms of lifestyle? Were you drinking a lot? Were you still a fat kid?

Speaker 3 (00:40:36):

Oh my God, yeah. I became an alcoholic on this tour, on this first fucking breaking tours that we had before that I drank some, and I had a few drunken episodes or whatever, but one or two when we started touring and we had tour support and yeah, I will always thank Metal Blade for this too. They didn't put us through this just, fuck you, go do it. No. They were giving us good to support too, which I never heard of since. But when that started happening, I was like, you know what? I have a label that wants to keep me on the road. What do people do on the road? They fucking drank. Fuck you. And I started drinking a lot around this time, dude, I destroyed my life on this tour, and it took years to recover, but it was the access. You're playing a venue.

(00:41:28):

The guy feels bad for you, gives you a bottle. Well, what the fuck are we going to do? But all of us in the band at that time had that problem. I was the only member of the band that had not gotten a DUI. Holy shit. Yeah, we were all in. Remember Nebraska? You know, what the fuck do you do there? But yeah, it started getting really bad around 2006, 2007, 2007, I got kicked out of the other Remains Bus for telling their tour manager to fuck off on camera Drunk, drunk. He's like, Hey, bill slowed down. I'm like, ah, fuck off, dude. Fucking dude had the camera going and got that on camera.

Speaker 2 (00:42:07):

Holy shit. So man, I bet that went over great at the label.

Speaker 3 (00:42:11):

Oh yeah. Oh my God. No. But it wasn't just me. I was probably the worst. I'll say that. But it wasn't just me. It was all of us.

Speaker 2 (00:42:21):

So you guys were like that first out of five band where everybody is just a disaster drunk, just like coming on the headliner's bus, telling him to fuck off, probably eating all their food and just,

Speaker 3 (00:42:34):

Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I ate a whole bag of Doritos the same day of their Doritos. I cracked it open. I'm sorry, guys. If anyone from that lineup of all the Remains is listening, I'm really sorry for that tour. I haven't drank in five years, guys. But oddly enough, we ran into them again in Japan. We did a festival with them a few months later, and they were cool, but I mean, we were still being drunk assholes in Japan too. But they were cool about it. They still talked to us. They had gen base at that time.

Speaker 2 (00:43:06):

I remember her. She was cool.

Speaker 3 (00:43:07):

Yeah. And it was Jason's, I think he's still in the band, right? Jason Costa. It was his first tour

Speaker 2 (00:43:14):

About the drinking. My first year of touring. My drinking kind of got crazy too. It never became a habit. But during the tour time, the amount that I got comfortable drinking is unbelievable. I can't fathom drinking like that anymore. It was ridiculous. And I remember at one point when we were on a Yeager tour and consuming at least a bottle of Yeager a day plus whatever else other people would give us at one point being like, I got to slow down today. I'll only drink a bottle of wine.

Speaker 3 (00:43:52):

Wow, that's a lot of control.

Speaker 2 (00:43:57):

But I was sharing a bus with somebody who said they didn't drink anymore, but drank a case of wine a day.

Speaker 3 (00:44:03):

Is that someone that we both know?

Speaker 2 (00:44:05):

Probably.

Speaker 3 (00:44:07):

Oh, no. No. It's not that one guy that we both know. The one that starts with R and finishes with Alf.

Speaker 2 (00:44:14):

Oh, no, no, no, no. It starts with a D.

Speaker 3 (00:44:18):

Oh, no, he does that. I don't drink anymore. But he's putting down the

Speaker 2 (00:44:23):

Case. Well, I'm a mutual friend. I was at the studio at the same time that he was at the studio back in his drinking heyday and

Speaker 3 (00:44:35):

D side.

Speaker 2 (00:44:36):

That

Speaker 3 (00:44:37):

Was he doing D

Speaker 2 (00:44:37):

Side? Yeah. And oh my God, dude, I was never that bad. Not even close. That's a whole other level that I never even, my definition of drinking a lot doesn't even touch the level of drunk that he got to. And it's kind of horrifying.

Speaker 3 (00:44:58):

And I know you're listening to this, so we are talking about you because you're an asshole and we don't want you to do that.

Speaker 2 (00:45:03):

No, but I mean, does he still do that?

Speaker 3 (00:45:06):

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:45:07):

Holy shit, dude.

Speaker 3 (00:45:09):

He says he doesn't.

Speaker 2 (00:45:10):

Dude, dude, you got to stop. I love you. We're talking almost 10 years ago that I experienced this. I was like, holy shit. It actually inspired me to drink less.

Speaker 3 (00:45:25):

Yeah, good, good, good man. Because that's how he gets, that's how he can get, and Brother, with me drinking was literally all that I've accomplished. It's easy to pat myself in the back and say, I came from Brazil and I did all this in America, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But dude, all that I've accomplished was destroyed also by drinking.

Speaker 2 (00:45:54):

How so?

Speaker 3 (00:45:55):

On tour, dude. I mean, first of all, I started getting so big, physically big. And again, I'm not talking shit about fat people. I'm saying that I was so out of shape and unhealthy that I couldn't really be a good guitar player or be hired by anyone. There was no reason for anyone to give me a job when I looked and played the way I did, even though I still had that huge ego that I told you about. I thought I was the basket guitar player in the world. It is funny that you mentioned Gus and Malone because the tour that made me stop was with them with both. Well, Malone was not on the tour, but without Is without him. The one time he didn't do it.

Speaker 1 (00:46:40):

Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:46:41):

I remember that. I remember, yeah, it was F Fred of Fury, and I did that tour. I did Not Firing Night Rage, which is Gus's other band. And so they were first, and I was playing that tour too, and within three days, everyone hated me. Everyone thought I was an asshole. Three days Gus came up to me, he's like, dude, you got to stop, man. You're fucking it up. I was just being a complete disaster. And I had gotten the gig because the guitarist that was in Night Rage, who's now in Amaranth, he couldn't do it for whatever reason. And he called me about it, and it was a good opportunity because it was also Gus's spot before, you know what I mean? So it's basically playing for Garcia's other band for our upcoming guitarist. It was a good opportunity, but I blew it. I played like shit. I acted like an asshole every day. And then the last show was on the Thursday in LA where I lived at the time, and I started drinking after the show, and I woke up the Wednesday after. So I had a six day drinking binge at home by myself after a tour.

Speaker 2 (00:47:58):

So you lived in LA at the time?

Speaker 3 (00:48:00):

Yeah, I did. Most of my US time was spent in la. I lived there between eight and last year.

Speaker 2 (00:48:06):

Alright. I want to ask you some details about this. When you say you were being an asshole, what do you mean? If you can remember?

Speaker 3 (00:48:14):

No, I mean, you mean shit that I did? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:48:18):

I just want to get some perspective on what level of disaster we're talking.

Speaker 3 (00:48:22):

Okay. Peabody's in Cleveland or wherever that venue is. I got so drunk. Some chick pissed me off. I wonder why I ripped out the gumball machine out of the floor and was trying to take it into the bus. Holy

Speaker 2 (00:48:40):

Shit.

Speaker 3 (00:48:41):

The bus that was firing and I rage together. So the headliner and the opening event together because, and I was trying to bring the fucking thing there. Kept getting into shit with a tour manager, just being a general dick to people. Now, there's a lot of things that people tell me that I don't remember falling in front of a venue and then people clapping because it was funny as shit rolling down some. I know that was a different tour. Was it firing? Yeah. There's a story of some venue in Canada that's upstairs that I rolled down the stairs up to the front door where all these fans are coming in. This was even before the show. So dude, pretty high

Speaker 2 (00:49:26):

Disaster level.

Speaker 3 (00:49:27):

Yeah. Yeah. Pretty high disaster level, man. Over

Speaker 2 (00:49:31):

What span of time?

Speaker 3 (00:49:32):

Well, the first tour was 2006 and I got ridiculous the next year, 2007. The other remains thing I told you is barely six months after I'm living in the country.

Speaker 2 (00:49:46):

Okay. And at what point did you quit drinking?

Speaker 3 (00:49:50):

That was after this ING tour. I just told you with the six day drinking binge. I woke up the week after and I was like, wait, did I just drink for a week at home? During that time, I figured out that I got kicked out of the rainbow, which I mean with Scotty dude, which is Lenny's best friend. We both got so drunk. We told some people to fuck off. They were spending money. We got kicked out. I don't even remember going there, let alone getting kicked out. And I just figured out everything I did. My wife was like, my wife had to go rescue me from my hotel because she didn't want me home. I was too drunk. So she sent me with the band to the hotel. The band was from Sweden, so they had a hotel. I had to stay with the band, but then apparently I punched the mirror in and the hotel kicked me out. So I'm out in the street having my wife have come pick me up out in Hollywood like three in the morning.

Speaker 2 (00:50:45):

So you, you're on tour with a band. You come home and your wife doesn't want you home because

Speaker 3 (00:50:50):

Of be interrupt because you're such a

Speaker 2 (00:50:52):

Disaster. That right

Speaker 3 (00:50:54):

There, that's crazy. She's like, just come home tomorrow because you're too fucked up.

Speaker 2 (00:51:03):

Because normally when you get to see your significant other on tour, it's like, what's the soonest I can see you? We need to spend every moment together. We haven't seen each other in a month or something. And she's like, dude, fucking don't even come home.

Speaker 3 (00:51:20):

Yeah. She called to me a few times that back when I drank, when I was coming home from touring, she was always like, well, yeah, cool that he's coming home, but now hell's going to start again. Yeah. I remember sometimes, Hey, it's two days till I get home. Oh, cool. Now it's not like that, but she says that it's a lot of things that she didn't tell me when I was an alcoholic, and she only told me later. I was like, well, maybe if you told me all this shit before, I would've stopped, but probably wouldn't. Probably not. Shit happens when it happens, when it has to happen. Oh yeah. And during this tour, there's another catalyst man, and this is a very important one that I will tell for the rest of my life. During this tour, I got an audition. Okay, now you are too close to this audition, so I'm not going to disclose any names on your show.

(00:52:16):

But I got an audition during this firing tour, and I had to basically fly back. I don't remember what it was, but it was a show in Atlanta. Then flew back to LA for the audition and then fly back and catch the show in New York the next day. Somehow I made it all work, and I think I killed the audition. And the kid that came in after me did not and got the job, and I was like, really? Did I really fly cross country for this fucking thing? And I didn't get, yeah, he was in LA and I lived in LA at

Speaker 2 (00:52:56):

The time. I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about,

Speaker 3 (00:52:58):

But I was on a tour. I flew back from Atlanta, oddly enough, from Atlanta. Were you at that show at the Masquerade?

Speaker 2 (00:53:05):

No. Maybe I'm not

Speaker 3 (00:53:08):

2011.

Speaker 2 (00:53:09):

I don't know. No, I must have been in Florida, but I'm pretty sure I know what you were auditioning for

Speaker 3 (00:53:15):

And I can tell you later, but at the end of the day, it was a really good thing. I didn't get it because it didn't do anything, but I got pissed off and I was like, why the fuck did I not get it? And then I looked, dude, I remember I went in the bathroom, in the plane, look myself in the mirror. I'm like, of course. Why would they pick me? Look at me. It is like I'm 50 pounds overweight. The other guy was in shape, look good. Even if I played better than the other guy, it's what they need. You know what I mean? This is not what anybody needs. I was like, think about it as a company. What product am I selling here if this is what I'm selling? Well, I wouldn't give myself a job either. So that tour and that particular audition thing, I was like, okay, fuck this. I'm stopping because I need to get in shape. I can be the best guitar player in the world, but if I look like this, nobody's going to give me the job or treat me the way, the way that I think that they should. So I stopped drinking on January 1st, 2012. But with that in mind, I never

Speaker 2 (00:54:28):

Wait. So that's a dude from 2006 to 2012. That is a long stretch. I'm amazed that you're still in the industry.

Speaker 3 (00:54:37):

Well, that's the thing. There's a lot of, okay. I don't think I was really in the industry up to 2012. I knew some people, but nobody really took me seriously. Fair enough. We know people in common that know who I am, but don't really take me seriously because they remember me from back then, and that's okay. I don't hold it against them. But the thing is, when I, it's crazy, man. When I stopped, I was like, okay, I'm going to work. This is what got me thinking about law of attraction and shit like that, quite honestly, because I didn't really believe it until I was like, okay, I'm stopping drinking on January 1st, 2012 strictly so I can get in shape and get hired to be in bands. There was no other reason, no other motivation. I did not give a fuck about my health. I wasn't trying to get healthy. Those people, oh man, I was going to kill myself and all that. I did not give a fuck about any of that. I didn't think it was that bad. I did not think I was an alcoholic until after it stopped.

(00:55:49):

So I was like, okay, I'm going to stop drinking because I'm not an alcoholic so I can stop. And at the time I was in Brazil and I'm like, I'm going to lose 10 pounds. Let's see if I can lose 10 pounds because drinking, there's no way I'm going to go to the gym. And I eat. I'm a fat eater anyway. I like Taco Bell. I like eating crap. So I'm like, the way I eat, if I drink and don't work out, well, there's no way that's never going to work. So I'm going to stop drinking, see what happens. The first day, dude, I was so nauseated, but I still went down to my parents' building.

Speaker 2 (00:56:28):

Were you hungover much? Because you January 1st, so I'm assuming that New Year's Eve was

Speaker 3 (00:56:35):

Oh, yeah, because it was in Brazil at my parents' house, and I got so drunk that I was trying to kick some of my parents' guests out for whatever reason. I mean, people, my parents' age too, be like, you guys get the fuck out of my house. I don't know why. I still don't know what happened. My parents don't really know either. But I got that drunk and I woke up the next day. Oh yeah. And I was a morning drinker too. I like to leave the bottle so I could grab it the next day, if I remember. So I woke up and the bottle was there and fucking, I grabbed it. I'm like, ah, man, am I really going to fuck that up? And then I am like, okay, one day I won't do it. And I went straight downstairs to where they had some gym equipment, they had a treadmill, and I went on the treadmill. I was like, well, this is the only thing I really know how to do. So I did 30 minutes of treadmill and I felt amazing after. I'm like, wow, holy fuck. I should be doing this all the time because I hate the treadmill. But at the end of it, I felt like a sense of accomplishment that I hadn't felt in a while. It was like, wow, I actually did this. It's like, well, it's like when you as a producer, you finish your song. It's like, you know that feeling? I made this shit.

(00:57:55):

That was that feeling for the first time in a long time for me. And I'm like, well, I mean, let me keep trying to go. And I brought up the law of attraction shit because I was trying to work on my look and my look only. Okay. I wasn't too concerned about my guitar playing. My guitar plane was fine. I was concerned about looking good. And one year after, exactly one year after, on January, 2013, ESP came out with a catalog with me on the cover without having me play a note. It was my look alone that got that. It wasn't the plane. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, I was invited. They offered me an endorsement after seeing me at the Rainbow. The person at the time was just basically on the way I looked, based on the way I looked. I had just come out of another endorsement deal, but I tried to get back with, and I had an upcoming tour, which is, there's that too.

(00:58:57):

I was leaving for my first tour since the firing tour. I was leaving for my first summer tour, and I went to the Rainbow basically for a going away party. And there ESP offered me and I was like, well, you know what, man? I just tried to get some guitars from this company I used to work with and they're not willing to help me out. If you guys are, I would love to listen. And I came to the office the next day before flying out, and there we got the deal and me and the president became the vice president. Jeff Moore became really good friends. So when I came back from the tour, we had dinner and he sat right there. If you play half as good as you look, you're going to be a star. And I'm like, dude, what the fuck? That's exactly what I was trying to do. And I mean, just because I put all that energy from quitting drinking to start working out to eating right and all that, that's exactly what I got.

Speaker 2 (00:59:54):

So how hard was it to,

Speaker 3 (00:59:56):

It wasn't hard, dude. It wasn't like I say to this day, I tried to stop drinking many times. In fact, it was a joke. Oh yeah, Bill's going to stop drinking. Okay, you can ask any of my friends. I tried. I tried, I tried, but I would always go back to, and then I would be, oh, maybe I'll just drink because I hated beer, but I was like, maybe I'll just drink beer and a shot. But I hated beer and I loved the shot. So I would do one beer a shot, and I'm like, maybe I need another shot. And then there it goes. So it never worked. It never worked, never worked to slow down, never looked to stop. When I finally got pissed off about that audition and then the drinking danger with a week after, it was something I could grab onto. I'm like, okay, either I'm going to get in shape or this is going to keep happening. So from that point on, it was extremely easy, man, I can't even explain how easy it was. Some of my drinking friends, I still have the same friends, I still have the same circle of friends, and some of the drinking friends are always like,

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):

They probably like you a lot better now.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):

No, everybody does. There's people that did not like me before and like me now a lot, it's impressive enough that I look at it and I'm like, is that really me? Was it really me? Back then? It was weird, man. It was weird. The second I got pissed off enough, it just happened like that. And then things started and it happened exactly as I thought it would. I'm like, okay, the second I look good, I'll start getting calls. I don't know how it's going to be, but I will and did, and I did. And right now I'm turning down jobs left and right. It was like for a guy that couldn't even get one job in 2011.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):

So by 2013, you're on the cover of the ESP catalog and you've quit drinking, you've lost the weight, you've been hitting the gym, you're looking good. What happens next?

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):

Well, in 2012, in the summer of 2012, I did the first tour with Circle to Circle. Now I'm pretty sure that your listeners won't be two familiar with that band, but what it is is the singer for Sabotage and also the Ian Orchestra, and it's basically like his band. When Sabotage stopped, that guy started playing again. They were one of my favorite bands. And also one of my goals in America was to get involved with that music. Ian Orchestra is what they are. But I started playing with this singer and he had a European tour in 2012 in the summer. So that was basically my comeback to the industry, but sober. And it's funny because one of the things I used to say was that I wanted to play V before I turned 30, and I was 29 that year when I played VOC with them.

(01:02:46):

That was the first show of the tour and also my first show sober. And from then on, I started running into people I met before on tour and running into and just making new contacts. From then on, it was really networking because the next thing to happen after that, the a and r for ESP at the time had a band on his own and he went out to Europe and took me to play for him. So I made some more context then, and I just started doing the sideman thing. People started calling me, and then I spent a period in la, I think this was the end of 2013, I believe, beginning of 2014 where I didn't have any gigs. And then that's when I got hooked up with Tommy Vaxt to do the Westfield Massacre thing. And around that time, I wasn't really touring and it was my new attempt at doing a band.

(01:03:45):

It was me, him and Tim Young, and we had another guitarist, really good guitarist, Rick DeMarco, and basically it was just me and Tommy, the music. Me and Tommy wrote the music. I think it was six or seven songs, maybe it's eight, I don't know. And then we started rehearsing with the band. But again, I started, then I started getting calls to do other stuff with the Sabotage people. The Ian Orchestra came to. I came around the same time I started talking to them, and I just didn't have time to do that anymore. I also played during this time, oh yeah, during this time too, I started playing with John Oliva, who's the main guy in sabotaging, the guy that writes all the music for the Ian Orchestra, not Paul, you the guy who just died. Now him, John Olivo is his partner music. He's the guy that writes most of the music, and he has a band on his own that's called John Olivo, Spain. He doesn't really play a lot, but he does festivals sometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):

Yeah, I've heard of them. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):

He does like big festivals. He doesn't like touring for whatever reason. But I did one important festival with that band, and I think that's really what cemented TSO and talking to me and considering me and all that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):

So let's talk about TSOA little bit, and just to recap for people, you did a lot of proving yourself in the side projects, I guess you'd call them the TSO side projects before.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):

Yeah, I've been with everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):

Yeah. So you put years in lots of different sessions of being around those people before you got offered the TSO gig, right? Correct.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):

It

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):

Didn't just come out of nowhere.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):

No,

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):

Because I'm just saying that because generally none of these great opportunities ever really come out of nowhere. They're usually, at least in my experience, they're usually a result of a couple years or more of knowing people and working with them on smaller things and developing a relationship until eventually the bigger thing happens. So you said that that tour cemented it, and what did they offer you an audition?

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):

Well, it was a few different things happening at the same time. First of all, to get a little bit into the history of this, John Oliva, the guy I just mentioned that I played for, the main guy in Ter Ian Orchestra, his brother Chris Oliva, died in 1993, and he was one of my favorite guitars. Of course, I started playing in 1993, so he wasn't when he died, but over the years, I became a really big fan of that guy, and I had a very similar style of playing as he did. So for this show, this festival that we did that I did with John Prague Power in Atlanta, actually we were headliners in 2014, we were playing one of the most famous sabotage albums called Streets, and I've known that album so well my whole life. I knew how to play note by note, like the solos, everything.

(01:06:59):

Everyone that played with John before had gotten close, but not really quite getting it. And he sat on an interview, on an interview to some magazine that I was the closest he had ever heard from his brother to play like his brother. And I mean, that thing got a lot of attention in the camps, if that makes sense, in the people, in the people within the people related. Well, who the fuck is this guy? He just came out of nowhere, which is not really true. I had played already with Zach in Circle to Circle, who's also the other singer for Sabotage. So I was already going up the steps, so to speak, when he said that it got a lot of attention, got a lot of their fans pissed off too, especially, yeah, because an older band, their band Sabotage is from, their best album is from 91, so their stuff is from 86, 87.

(01:08:03):

I'm 34 years old, their fans, but I caught some flack from that, but John told me that the trans orchestra was this thing, and they had other musicians on the backup end and people working around them. There were other ways to work with them, but you kind of had to get in, but he's a really important part of it. So I figured if there ever will be an opportunity, it will come through him. Now. When I started rehearsing with him and he said the thing about me playing his brother's solos and all that, at that same time, Joe Hsra got the job at White Stake, who's the guitarist for the East Band. It happened at the same time. I was in the studio with John as this hit the press, and I just looked. I remember just looking at him and showing him, I'm like, okay, so something should happen now, right? Still didn't hear from them, nothing. But I kept working with John. John just said, dude, trust me. I kept working with him, kind of. Yeah. And then I started hearing from other people in the organization. Then I started, Al Petra started talking to me. Al Petra was also one of my favorite guitar players growing up. For those who don't know, he played Valles Cooper. He was in Mega Dad for a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):

Oh, yeah, he's great.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):

He's the main guitarist in TSO, and I started hearing from him and he started talking about me in the interviews. I'm like, okay, something's going to happen. But because still nobody was calling me. Then one of my best friends who unfortunately passed away last year was one of the tech in TSO, Kyle, and then Kyle started saying that he started hearing my name from Higher People, and I'm like, okay, well, when are they going to call me? Then eventually I got a call one day, and they didn't really tell me why, but they said, we're going to fly you out to Florida, going to play for us. They never called you an audition. There was never a point where I was challenged to play this or that, you know what I mean? I just kind of played them and hung out with them. There was never like, okay, let me see you play that. There was never that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):

So you just went and hung out and you guys played some and

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):

Yeah, I mean, I knew a lot of the music, so I just sat and jammed with him, but I was never under the microscope or

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):

Anything. Well, I guess you had already passed a bunch of tests.

Speaker 3 (01:10:42):

That's kind of what I see. But then I still didn't know what was happening until, because they also had the Ian Orchestra and Sabotage, which is something that didn't hit the American Press. It's so weird to me, the Ian Orchestra and Sabotage in 2015, where the headliners of V, and when I say the headliners is we played both stages at the same time. Both of them we're playing the same song in both stages. There's like 20 musicians, 40 singers.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):

Wait,

Speaker 3 (01:11:15):

Wait.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):

At the same,

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):

The biggest production at the same time.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):

Synced.

Speaker 3 (01:11:19):

Yeah, synced. 90,000 people saw that it was the biggest production of all the history of Vacuum Open Air, and it was nowhere to be seen in the American Press.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):

I never even heard of that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):

Yeah, look it up. I'll send you some videos. Yes, it was ridiculous, man. It was six weeks of rehearsal every day.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):

Yeah, we'll put the videos. Hey, we're going to put these videos for you listeners in the show notes if you want to see what he's talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):

Then when I saw that announcement, I knew that they were going to need all four guitar players because they were going to do the show at the same time. And then I started seeing the Whitesnake tour dates, and then I saw that he was playing that day. I'm like, oh, they're going to call me for that show. They're going to call. And they did. That was my first show with them, really. And more and more nuts than that is that I played on the Sabotage Stage. So Sabotage stopped playing 2002 and did this one special show in 2015, and I was the guitarist for that. And then on the other stage was the Trans Siberian Orchestra and we're playing the same song. And that, for what I understand, was kind of like my audition ish. It is like, okay, well, we've seen him on stage. We can take him on tour now.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):

Quite the audition.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):

Yeah, dude, that was pretty insane. Yeah, but it was amazing, dude. And you guys as producer, you would love the way we did it. I mean, I don't know the technical aspects, but the way we do Morris Sound here in Tampa.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):

So we rehearse the Morris Sound, one band in each recording room, and then the engineer in the middle mixing. We all play two clicks and all you not really seeing everyone that you're playing, you're playing with during rehearsal. It's quite a trip.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):

That must have sounded crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):

It sounded just like the album. There's four guitars, there's two drums, two basses, there's four keyboard players, 20 singers, and these 20 singers is Russell Allen from Symphony X, Jeff Scott Soto from Stein, Zach Stevens, of course, from Sabotage, Nathan James from Glorious. So it's all pretty heavy hitters. And again, nowhere in the press in the us.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):

Wow, what a crazy production.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):

Yeah, he was pretty nuts.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):

So after that, you're in the band?

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):

Yeah. Well, I mean, I am in the organization, but for example, I didn't do it last year. Joe was back last year. So last year I was basically helping with the backup band, which is guys that literally sit at home waiting for someone to break a leg. So I did rehearsals with them.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):

So how many bands are there in this organization?

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):

There's two at the same time touring. There's a east and a West. They're mirror images of each other, even look wise, kind of. And they play the same notes, the same parts, the same music, everything. And then there's a third band that's backup, and some of the drum, actually both drum tags are also in the backup band. And then there's these guys, there's a bass player, there's a couple keyboard players, and they rehearse with the real band just in case. So everyone needs to be ready. Every guitar player has to know both parts. You never know who's going to go down. Keyboard players, same thing, have to know both parts. There's a backup. I don't think there's a backup violinist, or at least I haven't met one, but there's violinists in both bands. Dude,

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):

That's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):

Oh yeah. It is depressing to come out of that tour after the last tour day when you're flying home and you have to do all your shit. That's depressing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):

You have to go back to real life. You know What blows my mind about TSO? How is that style of music so big in the us?

Speaker 3 (01:15:24):

It's crazy. And it's not really as big in Europe either,

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):

But it's like power metal, like eighties stuff, and it's huge.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):

I mean, dude, some of the songs that we play, they're sabotage songs. They're songs that I was rocking out as a kid. So it's

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):

How I don't understand. How is it so big?

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):

I don't understand either. And the fan base is amazing, man. It's like their fans year round. They're not people that just come to the show and that's it. Because that's what I used to think, because I've seen ts o quite a few times as a fan, and I used to think that most of the people in the crowd were coolest to, they didn't really know what metal was and all that. But I mean, they are fancier long. They write about it, they post videos. They're quite incredible. And they do end up in the heavier music because of that. I'll give you a great example. I know a fan, I don't know her age, but she's in her sixties. She's older, and she sent a picture from a Slayer show because she went there to see Konik with Testament, because Konik had my position before. Well, my position, not anymore I guess, but Konik had the same position for 13 years, guitar player, really, as far as the fans are concerned. So because she's a fan of Konik, she went to see Testament and ended up at a Slayer show, and now she likes Slayer.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):

Amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):

So yeah, there's a lot of that. And there's families, but there's a lot of musicians too. I noticed that a lot of the people that come, they know exactly what was going on in the show. What part? It's quite incredible. But I think that this may even sound like poetic a little bit, but I think SSO is bigger than the music. It's bigger, definitely bigger than the people in it. It is like the Nutcracker. It is a Christmas tradition, and it's not going anywhere after Paul's death. It's because the people come, they bring their families, they know the show, they look forward to it. Dude, we played Erie, Pennsylvania. That was the first show, and my mom flew in from Brazil to see me. We're at this restaurant and the person's like, oh, will, are you going to see TSO tonight? I'm like, oh, I'm actually playing with TSO. It's my first show tonight. She's like, wow, that's cool. But did you know that the city that we basically stop and wait for the T SSO show all year? It is crazy like that. The city, all these people, they're a big community too.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):

I think this is funny. So when you were in a tiny band, you were a big ego man, maniacal asshole, and then you get into

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):

Thank you because that's exactly what I was.

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):

But then you get into this huge band and you're humble about it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:42):

Well, I think that everything happens for a reason or the way it has to happen. I was not ready to be in a band like that when I drank. Absolutely not. If there's a big song and I'm not doing the solo and I'm 25 years old and drunk, I just fuck you. You don't respect my playing. That's the kind of guy I was, but I don't know. But the most humbling thing about it, man, it's to me about TSO and why I will never take it for granted or think anything like that is because I got some of my favorite musicians in the same band, guys from different that I like from different projects as a kid. And you got to understand, man, I grew up in Brazil, so I mean these people are like Arnold Schwarzenegger to me. It's like more, they're more important.

(01:19:35):

It's like T ts o. Russell Allen to me is the best singer since Dickinson. He's the best singer in metal in a long time, and he's one of the T SSO singers. But as a kid, I also had an Invi tribute band where I played as Above So Below, and I am a Viking, and now I'm playing with the original singer in the same band and then keyboard players. There was only one keyboard player that I was into as a kid. It's this guy called Vitali Capri. He's Ukrainian, not very popular, but the best at shred keyboard player type. He's also in T sso. All of a sudden I'm in this big band, but all of these different idols are also in the band. How the fuck do I ever feel like I'm like that I'm not The cool guitarist in the band is someone I brought. I literally bought a guitarist because he was playing that on stage and I saw it as a kid. How do you ever feel bigger than that?

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):

That's incredible. So you're in a situation where every time you go play with these people, it's like, fuck yeah, I get to play with my heroes.

Speaker 3 (01:20:44):

Yeah. Chris Caffrey was a very important influence for me as a kid. Here in my wardrobe. I have a guitar, a Jackson, Randy Rhodes that I bought because I saw Sabotage in Brazil at a stadium as a kid. It is 1998, and he was playing a Randy Rose, and I'm like, wow, I want a guitar like that. So that birthday, I asked my parents for that guitar. I still have it. I still play, and now I play in a band with the guy. So there's no way to ever feel bigger than that. There's no way to ever not be humble about that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):

And as a result, also, I know you just bought a house, what was that, maybe a year ago or something?

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):

Yeah, I moved in November. Not even a year.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):

November, not even a year ago. And you have a nice house, nice car, good life. You did it.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):

Yeah. That's how I see it. That's how I view it, man. There are things in my career that I miss that I'm like, okay, I wish this happened. For example, my name and my face are better known than my guitar playing. I'm known as the guy that plays in the bands and does whatever. But that was the go for a while because my dad was always really, really, really, he was like, well, you want to be a musician. That's cool, man, but you got to make a living doing it. You can't be like this guy. I mean, I'm no disrespect, but dad's seen. My friends in Brazil basically become bums because they didn't make it in music. So the whole, to make it thing is abstract. But to me, for a while it meant that I'm able to buy a house that I'm able to live off of music however it is, because I am not really, I have a egotistical relationship with music in a way I want to perform. You said something, man, you said something a long time ago. I don't remember where it was either. It was a long time. It was before we met. It was before we talked. But I've seen you say something about how if musicians are chasing success, they will never get it. But if they're just doing it because they can't help but perform, then they'll be okay.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):

What I meant by it was that in order to have the drive to get great enough to where you're going to even have a chance in this world and to be able to stick out all the shitty parts of the industry, especially when you're first getting going, you have to really want to do it. You won't survive otherwise.

Speaker 3 (01:23:28):

But I think there's another aspect that I don't hear a lot of people touch on that that's how I read your message anyway or your thing anyway, was that a lot of people are very artistic about their music and meaning they have something to put out. I'll give you an example of the most artistic guy I know in metal right now that's Devin Thousand. He needs to put that shit out. He hears that shit in his head. It's driving him fucking crazy. He has to put that out. He doesn't matter if someone will buy it or not. My relationship is a little different. I like performing, and when I say performing, I just mean stage presence wise. I mean performing, playing guitar. I like playing guitar, but I also playing things that I know how they're supposed to sound, and I have fun making them sound really good. So I have this one part, this one of the solo. I will sit three hours and make that sound right, which is with the I Am Morbid with the Morbid Angel songs. That's coming in very handy because a lot of the rifts are like, yeah, you're playing the note, but you're not making it sound right. So I don't really have a lot of art to put out there. I don't have a lot of message. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):

Yeah, not, I think that it doesn't just show up in one form. I think that Devon Townsend is one type of artist, but I'm sure that he will readily admit that there are guitar players that are way more accomplished than he is.

Speaker 3 (01:25:08):

I would love to be in his band playing the parts that he's telling me to play, probably more than having to come up with the parts myself, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:25:16):

It makes perfect sense. I mean, look at classical musicians who don't really compose their own parts. People going to say that they're not artists.

Speaker 3 (01:25:28):

I see myself more like that. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (01:25:30):

I mean, are you going to say that someone who can play a Beethoven concerto isn't an artist just because they didn't write it? Of course not. It's called Performance Art.

Speaker 3 (01:25:40):

And dude, even, it's funny too, because I'll use Westfield Massacre as an example. Tommy came up to me, actually, we were introduced by a manager that thought we would be a good match and were, I thought the album was awesome, but I didn't really care too much for the music that he wanted to do. I mean, it is not my style, but I listened to the album to Divine Heresy. I, well, I listened to stuff that he did, and then I listened to some Fear Factory and I came up with the album, but those were set rules. Okay, this song has to sound kind like this song has to sound kind of like this song has to sound kind of like this. Oh, I like this part. I heard some other band that, a more modern metal band or whatever. I was like, oh, that's a cool part. So I kind of ripped off that one part. I'm like, oh, Tommy, singing over this would work great. It was labor, if that makes so to speak. It was labor, it was splitting parts together that finally sounded good, but based on who I'm writing for, it's not really, oh, this is what I love. This is what's inside of me sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:26:53):

It sounds like what you love is the physical act of fucking being awesome at guitar.

Speaker 3 (01:27:01):

So just performing and sounding good at what something wrote. Here's how your music will sound the best. That's kind of what I figured out about myself because whenever I tried to do things and start bands and stuff, it never worked, man. It never

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):

Worked. Dude, you know what? I think it's really important and mature to figure that out. There are a lot of guys, I am not going to name someone, but I know someone who I think is one of the best guitar players alive, and I think that he should have the gigs. He's good looking and he's fucking incredible. He's always been incredible. All the guitar players look up to him, but he's not a good writer. He never has been, but he's always been a phenomenal sideman, just incredible. He can play your stuff, not you, but he can play other people's music so great, and he brings so much to it, but he doesn't want to be that. He wants to be known as a writer too, and that has, in my opinion, fucked up his career because he's never been comfortable as just being a sideman where I feel like if he embraced it and loved it and admitted that that's what he was great at, he'd be like playing for Celine Dion or some shit. He'd be in the top bands at this point.

Speaker 3 (01:28:35):

It's really funny you say that because that, if I had to point out, one thing that I think is missing in my career is that the writing aspect of it, because for example, how do I put this without sounding like a total asshole? I see a lot of people freaking out about guitar players that I listen. I'm like, okay, I could do that, but I don't want to do that. I'm not being mean, I'm not being mean, but it's just guys that people think I see achieving a lot with solo music especially that I'm like, I want that. I would like to have that sort of recognition as opposed to being the sideman, but it's so much work, and if it's to just do music like that, I really don't want to do it. So I'm constantly in this existential crisis of like, yeah, man, you know what? I'm touring the world. I'm doing all this, but I'm not talking about me. You know what I mean? That's why I use the TSO Sabotage thing as an example. That was a huge fucking deal in Europe. We did a press conference for 300 people, holy

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):

Shit.

Speaker 3 (01:29:52):

But the fact that the US press didn't give a shit really did bother me. So I'm like, okay, I think about this sometimes. I'm like, should I be trying to write some other music and be in a band like that, but then I'm going to end up on this festival and doing this and fuck that. It's too much work. Let me go get let go play at page shut up. That's kind of what happens in my head every single day. You know what I mean? This is why right now as we speak, I have a singer in Europe recording two songs for me that I'm going to try to release as a solo artist, but they're still vocal songs. They still very much sounds like band. It's power metal, and it sounds like it should be a band, but I'm going to try to release it just as a solo artist and see what happens. Luckily for me, we are in the internet age where I don't need to do a whole album to try to do that. But

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):

Also you're going to try to do that and see what happens, but you're not going to ruin a work opportunity just because there's no writing involved. So this other guy I'm talking about ruined opportunities with bigger bands because they didn't offer him a writing position.

Speaker 3 (01:31:08):

Oh, man. See, I don't think that's very smart.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):

No, no. And especially because he's not a very good writer, but he's an incredible guitar player, so he should have taken those gigs and just accepted it because what he can do on guitar, very few people can do. So he should have just accepted it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:33):

It's funny you brought this up because with the first band I mentioned the whole time, the metal blade band odor, that was kind of the mindset I had back then. It pissed me off that the one guy was writing all the music, but it never occurred to me that every single opportunity that came to that band from the record deal to the trips to Japan, to all the stupid medal court tours we did. All that came out of his writing. So if his writing was working, why was I feeling offended that he wouldn't let me write? How much better can he get than where it is right now if it's working? Just let the guy do his job play guitar. That's not how I thought at the time, and that's why I had really big problems with the guitar players, and I love the guy now. We better friends now, and I always tell him, I kind of wish back then that I let you lead the band because it's your band. It is your band that got signed. It is your band that got the opportunities. Why the hell did I think that I could do better than you? That's stupid. Well,

Speaker 2 (01:32:42):

That's maturity talking.

Speaker 3 (01:32:43):

Yeah, but that's like I'm saying that 10 years later, that was literally 10 years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:32:48):

Well, it's interesting what a little perspective can do, but that perspective, I feel has allowed you to now be at a point where you are living the dream. So it's important to know yourself,

Speaker 3 (01:33:02):

And I don't like saying living the dream yet, man, I don't feel comfortable yet. You know what

Speaker 2 (01:33:06):

I mean? Well, you won't ever feel comfortable. Hopefully,

Speaker 3 (01:33:09):

I, I've had three years of good income, which was what I had in my head, enough to get a house or whatever, but I'm like, okay, but if I have a good schedule until mid 2018, but I'm like, what if I don't get anything after? That's always buzzing in my head, man. Well,

Speaker 2 (01:33:29):

Yeah. That's the eternal struggle.

Speaker 3 (01:33:32):

Yeah. Well, I just thought that, man, when I buy a house, things are going to change. No, now I freak out. Now it's like, oh fuck, I don't have to pay rent now I got to pay for a house. Fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):

Yeah. It definitely changes things.

Speaker 3 (01:33:46):

It's funny how obvious that is, but it didn't really hit you until it happens.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):

Well, I mean, dude, I just had blasko on here, and even though he is actually living the dream, he still doesn't feel like any of it's set in stone, and he still feels like it could fall apart at any moment and still keeps that hustle alive.

Speaker 3 (01:34:12):

I always wonder if we ever reach a point where that doesn't happen if someone like Blasko feels like that, and I know that Gus does too, and he was in the same band until recently. It is like, when is he good? When do you feel safe in music? It probably never happens.

Speaker 2 (01:34:30):

Probably never.

Speaker 3 (01:34:32):

And yeah, man, I'm sorry to hear that your friend doesn't recognize. Unfortunately, not everyone can be a songwriter. Not everyone can be Steve Harris. There's six people we made, and there's only one Steve Harris. I always say that,

Speaker 2 (01:34:47):

Dude. But also, not everyone can be the guitar player that gets hired. Exactly. There's only one or two positions and any band for a guitar player to come in. It's not like being an amazing guitar player is not easy, so accept it and love it. And by the way, on the topic of does it ever go away in music of the feeling of needing the next gig? My dad is in his sixties Symphony conductor, very successful, and he's still trying to get the next gig always.

Speaker 3 (01:35:23):

Who's your dad?

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):

His name's Yoel Levy, YOEL.

Speaker 3 (01:35:27):

That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:35:27):

Yeah, but I'm just saying, I don't think it ever goes away if he's in his mid sixties and he, by all accounts has made it, but he's still hustling.

Speaker 3 (01:35:41):

Dude, that's amazing. I would like to talk about that off the air after.

Speaker 2 (01:35:44):

Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:35:45):

I didn't know you had a conductor data. I went to school to be a conductor. Oh,

Speaker 2 (01:35:49):

Interesting. Yeah, I'll tell you all about it. But Bill, thank you so much for coming on here and being so open. This is a great episode.

Speaker 3 (01:35:58):

Oh, I'm glad, man. Yeah, sometimes I think I talk too much. That's what a podcast is for. That's awesome, man. And yeah, I appreciate, oh, you know how I said at the beginning that being in your podcast was actually something that I considered an accomplishment, specifically because of the audience that you reach. Okay, so I mentioned how I'm doing all these things, but Revolver isn't talking about me. Now, your audience is exactly the audience that I don't reach. I know for a fact that most of the people listening to this have never heard of me before, and now there's enough of like, wait, what the fuck? How come that they'll go and check it out? Everything I do, even the gigs this summer, I'm doing, I Am Morbid, which is a death Metal audience is Morbid Angel fans, and I'm doing Udo Dirk Schneider from Accept, who's also a power metal for US standards is also power metal. I do not reach the younger kids. I do not reach the Super producer kids. So thank you very much for having me here, because this is important for my company, for me.

Speaker 2 (01:37:06):

It's a

Speaker 3 (01:37:06):

Pleasure. This is really good. Thank you very much, man.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):

Yeah. And all of you guys listening who haven't heard of Bill, now you have, and go check him out. That's right. Telling me sexy.

Speaker 1 (01:37:16):

Yep, that's right. The Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast is brought to you by two notes. Audio Engineering two Notes is a leader in the market for load box cabinet and Mike simulators. Gunner the days of having iso rooms or having to record an amp at ear bleeding volumes To capture that magic tone, the Torpedo Live reload and studio allow you to crank your amp up as loud as you want, but record silently. Check out www.two-notes.com for more info. To ask us questions, make suggestions and interact, visit nail the mix.com, nail the mix.com. Nail the mix.com. Nail the mix.com. Nail.