OLA ENGLUND: The Secret to Sweden’s Metal Scene, Using Cheap Guitars, and Simple Home Recording

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Creative Live, the world's best online classroom for creative professionals with classes on songwriting, engineering, mixing and mastering. The Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast is also brought to you by Ernie Ball, the world's premier manufacturer of guitar strings, bass strings, and guitar accessories. And now your host, Joey Sturgis, Joel Wanasek, and Eyal Levi.

Speaker 2 (00:00:26):

I figured he's been waiting around for a little while right now, so fuck introing him. Let's just bring him on. What do you guys think?

Speaker 3 (00:00:33):

Sounds good. Get him on. Okay,

Speaker 2 (00:00:34):

Cool. Let me get him in this call.

Speaker 3 (00:00:36):

Hello?

Speaker 2 (00:00:37):

Hey, Ola. How are you doing?

Speaker 3 (00:00:38):

All good. How are you guys?

Speaker 2 (00:00:39):

You know?

Speaker 4 (00:00:40):

Fantastic welcome.

Speaker 3 (00:00:41):

Let me just say I love the Swedish accent. I think it's awesome. Who is that? This is Joey.

Speaker 5 (00:00:48):

Okay, cool. Nice to meet you finally.

Speaker 3 (00:00:51):

Oh, I love the Swedish accent. I'm actually weirdly attracted to Swedish stuff for some reason.

Speaker 2 (00:00:57):

To Swedish men.

Speaker 3 (00:00:59):

No, not men. Not sexy. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 5 (00:01:02):

Maybe it's our voices. They're very deep and

Speaker 2 (00:01:05):

Well, you guys speak English better than most Americans. That's the thing.

Speaker 5 (00:01:10):

I mean, they teach us English, like British English from third grade in middle school or preschool. That is so, I mean, the reason why I have more of an American accent is basically because I've been hanging with more Americans than,

Speaker 2 (00:01:29):

Okay, well, lemme tell you something about British English. Go

Speaker 5 (00:01:31):

Ahead.

Speaker 2 (00:01:31):

They think that it is the original English. I'll give him that, but take a guess. Out of all the American dialects, and this is true. This is not just me talking out my ass. Out of all the American dialects of English, which one do you think relates the most to the original English?

Speaker 5 (00:01:52):

I have no fucking idea.

Speaker 2 (00:01:55):

Somebody take a guess. Just take a guess. Is it northern Southern California? What? There's so many different dialects of American English. No one knows

Speaker 4 (00:02:04):

I have an opinion on this.

Speaker 3 (00:02:05):

I would say it's probably northern, if I had to guess wrong

Speaker 4 (00:02:10):

Southern. Let me tell you something about Southern though. I was reading a book on economic trends or something, and you know that the entire southern slang and subsequent ghetto culture language is a derivative of ulcer Scottish language from the 18 something following migration patterns. I don't know. It was a completely stupid book to read. It was really boring, but

Speaker 2 (00:02:31):

No, no, but that's exactly the point. The English that in America has made fun of the most is actually technically the closest to the English that's considered to be the best. That's

Speaker 3 (00:02:44):

Right. There we

Speaker 5 (00:02:44):

Go. Fucking

Speaker 2 (00:02:45):

Weird. But I actually think Swedish English is the

Speaker 5 (00:02:48):

Best. There are different kind of Swedish English. My English is very Americanized because I've been in American band and I've been having American friends, but then they're the real ones that don't really, they don't put on the American accent at all. Like a guy like per Nelson who goes like, it's so swish. It's insane. And you can definitely hear, because the sws have a kind of singing and when we speak,

Speaker 2 (00:03:18):

We have him coming on. So are we going to need a translator?

Speaker 5 (00:03:22):

No, but I mean it's going to be a lot of fun. I mean, I think it sounds fun. He talks so nice and I mean, I love that guy. He's one of my better friends actually.

Speaker 2 (00:03:32):

What's interesting though, another thing about you damn Swedes is why the fuck are you guys so good at music? You're better than us at English. Your standard of living is way higher than here. That's also proven. Why are you guys also good at music? I know that we only hear about the five bands that are awesome and you have a thousand more that suck, but still the bands and the musicians, and not just in metal, I mean in lots of different genres. The groups from Sweden that come out that are good are really fucking good. There's something in your water. Do you know anything about that?

Speaker 5 (00:04:15):

I don't think it's the water. I think it's the long winters. I mean, it's the summer in Sweden. It's like two months, three months at Tops is the Swedish summer. And I mean, the rest of the time is basically just a gray sludge where everyone's just walking around being, I'm exaggerating, of course, but I mean, everyone's pretty much in a depression state. And I mean a lot of people also in Sweden, I mean the government subsidized being in bands and shit like that. So I mean, if you're a band, you can apply for getting your rehearsal space paid or I mean, there's a lot of, they really like to help out the cultural society in Sweden. So I mean, I think it's mostly because of the winters, because we don't have anything else to do. We're not going out or anything like that. So a lot of people starts playing instruments,

Speaker 2 (00:05:09):

But it's not like we have an amazing group of musicians coming out of Maine or something. We have places with long winters. It's not like we have a great music scene in Alaska.

Speaker 4 (00:05:23):

We

Speaker 5 (00:05:23):

Might

Speaker 4 (00:05:23):

Just know and knows about it.

Speaker 5 (00:05:25):

Exactly. I mean, it's kind of weird because everyone says that, okay, Swedish metal or Swedish music in general is very high regarded and it actually makes it easy for us just because we're from Sweden. A lot of more, I would say more people would probably listen to my music rather if I was from, I mean Slovakia, and I mean, if the quality would be the same, more people would listen to my music rather than a guy from Slovakia.

Speaker 2 (00:05:55):

Yeah, well, they'd give it a chance first, but that doesn't mean they'd keep on listening.

Speaker 5 (00:05:59):

No, definitely not. But I think still that people would probably expect the Swedes to be better, even if the music is basically the same.

Speaker 2 (00:06:10):

Well, there are great musicians everywhere, but the thing is, when there's a concentration of great musicians, it says something. I think it's interesting that your government values aren't enough to support musicians. I don't think that that's not related to the quality of life that Sweden has as compared to other countries. And

Speaker 5 (00:06:31):

I mean, Sweden has been doing that for a very long time. I mean since the seventies or something like that. So I mean, you have all these badass guitar players from that area. I mean, Sweden is not that big. We're like 9 million or something like that. I mean, that amount of people, there are a lot of musicians and a lot of good guitar players came from the eighties or something like that. I mean, a lot of those people got help from the government. And I mean, I think it's because we've been having it for so long. So it's really grown into it's

Speaker 4 (00:07:06):

Part of the culture. I

Speaker 5 (00:07:07):

Mean, we're very used to it. I mean, it's definitely part of the culture and that might be it. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (00:07:13):

It's not part of the culture here, man. If musicians were getting those kinds of grants from the government on a regular basis, there would be a whole movement calling them all kinds of terrible things and saying that they're stealing from society when I don't know. In fact, I feel that art enhances society, but

Speaker 5 (00:07:35):

But that's definitely a totally different culture. I mean, it's not easy to just bring it into your system. It's the same thing if we're going to start talking about gun loss, I mean, you already have the guns. It's going to be super hard to just remove that. I mean,

Speaker 2 (00:07:52):

Wow. Someone who's not from America who gets it. That's crazy. Yeah, exactly. We have a country of 330 million people and there's 300 million guns in the streets already. I

Speaker 5 (00:08:03):

Got seven.

Speaker 2 (00:08:03):

You have seven? I have three.

Speaker 5 (00:08:05):

It's always like that when Europeans are like always, yeah, why do you have all these guns and blah, blah, blah, and gun America, blah, blah, blah. I mean, you're already there. I mean, it's not easy to fix. So I mean, it's not just removing all the guns. It's not going to solve anything really. I,

Speaker 2 (00:08:24):

And in fact, the cliche is true. If you take it away from people like me or Joel or whatever, then who's left with them?

Speaker 5 (00:08:32):

It's definitely the same with Universal Healthcare. I mean, it's the exact same thing basically. And how it's not as easy for you guys to implement into your society. I mean, it's trying. Yeah, you're trying. I know.

Speaker 3 (00:08:46):

Yeah. Well, I think I became initially fascinated by the game Minecraft, which I was a fan of Minecraft when he was still selling it $1 on a regular PayPal account, and it was like, give me $15 and you can have the game for the rest of your life. So I was an early adopter and I became fascinated with Notch. Who is Marcus Pearson? Is that how you say his name? Yep. Pearson. And that's good. Then he started gaining additional staff and I started following the staff and they were all Swedish, and so I just became interested in that way. But yeah, there's definitely something about Swedish people that's fascinating to me because they seem to do things on a higher standard level

Speaker 2 (00:09:44):

And they take six week vacations

Speaker 3 (00:09:46):

And the country, like you said, the vacations being like, isn't it mandatory or something like that. It is in Russia.

Speaker 2 (00:09:55):

And you guys all have saunas in your houses? Well, I mean, not all of you, but come on.

Speaker 5 (00:10:01):

I mean, yeah, on the contra side, there will definitely be a sauna in your house for sure. I mean, that's amazing. Swedes are the only people in the world that calls it something else rather than a sauna that has his own,

Speaker 2 (00:10:14):

What do you call it?

Speaker 5 (00:10:16):

We call it, hang on, just need to switch on to my Swedish mode

Speaker 2 (00:10:24):

Tutu

Speaker 5 (00:10:25):

Bus. I can't

Speaker 2 (00:10:26):

Do it. It's

Speaker 4 (00:10:26):

Like they call it Banya in Russian.

Speaker 2 (00:10:29):

Is it a normal thing in Russia that everyone has a banya in their house in their backyard?

Speaker 4 (00:10:36):

No, but it's popular to go to Banya Americans. We go to the bar and get drunk in Russia, they go to Banya. So a bunch of dudes get half naked wrap towels around themselves, go sit in the heat, pound beer and alcohol and bullshit. And that's what they do. And that's one of the social conventions there, how dudes hang out.

Speaker 2 (00:10:55):

Well, they do that in Sweden too, except they have these in their houses.

Speaker 5 (00:10:59):

Yeah, I mean it's more like if you're home at someone, some guys place. I mean, it's not like you're going to go to the sauna place or whatever. I mean, it's like if you're in someone's countryside home, you go and have a beer in the sauna. Definitely. And then you jump naked into the ice cold water and then go back up and into the saunas.

Speaker 2 (00:11:18):

Yeah, I've done that in Sweden. It's awesome. So I just want to know, do you think that happier people make happier music?

Speaker 5 (00:11:26):

Yeah, definitely. I mean, a lot of people, I would say probably get inspiration from tragedies and bad things happening to them or life situations or whatever, but I definitely feel like if you're living a good life and you are happy with how you live and how you work and all that, I mean, I think that's a bigger inspiration. Definitely. Yeah, I definitely think that it's important rather than having just negative experiences with your country or whatever.

Speaker 3 (00:11:56):

Now, see, this is where I might disagree a little bit because I think what I've noticed is a lot of the great music that I've worked on came from a place of extreme negativity, and then when the artists start to succeed on that material, they come back and they have to write new material

Speaker 5 (00:12:14):

And it's gone

Speaker 3 (00:12:15):

And they start to go downhill because they don't have that original inspiration.

Speaker 5 (00:12:20):

Yeah, I can totally see that. I mean, it makes sense, but I mean now I'm not talking in me in general. I mean, just music in general. I think of course, I mean, if they're having a better life, if they have a hit record that sells a lot and they get a better life, then there's other stuff happening to the equation. I mean, they're like, okay, let's release another album. They might not have the same passion or they might have more interest in the actual money from the album. I mean, it's also another reason why we talked about it earlier, why there's so many good bands coming out of Sweden. It's basically because the scene over here is so oversaturated with bands. So in order to stand out, you definitely have to up your quality. And I mean, it's definitely in Stockholm at least, and Goberg of course, there's so many bands trying to play. There are not many venues. I mean, the actual venue scene and going to a Mel show in Stockholm, it's not that big. I mean, there's just a handful of clubs and I mean, everyone's fighting for this spot to play that club or whatever. I mean, there's so many bands and I mean the scene is super saturated. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:13:40):

But let's take an equivalent of that, which would be LA kind of where everybody's fighting. Everybody in music thinks they need to go to LA to have a career. And guess what? Most LA bands kind of suck. You take an equivalent type of situation. There's similar number of people in LA as you guys have in your entire country, and there's no tradition in LA of doing not just popular music, but superior music. I think that there's something else that you guys have going on, but that said, since we're talking about happy life and all that, you're a family man and you do a million different things. You've got your YouTube channel, which YouTube channel can be many different things. There's definitely negative stigma with YouTube hacks, but there's a few people who do it well. And in what you do, I think there's only two people in the world who do it. You do it and it's you and our good friend Keith Marrow, and I know that it takes a lot of work to write the music, do the demos, make the videos. You're a father, you've got your own band, you're in the haunted, you're a sick guitar player. How do you do all that?

Speaker 5 (00:15:02):

Well, I mean,

Speaker 2 (00:15:04):

You can't be depressed and do all that.

Speaker 5 (00:15:06):

No, no, no. I'm very happy. I mean, all the YouTube stuff started when I was having a job. I work as an accountant, actually. What? That's awesome. So I had a regular desk job like eight to five, and this was before I had kids, but I had a dog and stuff like that. But I mean, then I started doing the videos, and that was purely out of passion. I mean, I did it on my spare time. I borrowed amps from people in Stockholm and I drove around every weekend. I went to someone's place, two hours out of town, went back, I borrowed this amp, went back to my place and recorded the amp, and then the day after, I would go back and return the amp. And I did this for a good while. And I mean, it was just because I do love gear

Speaker 2 (00:15:56):

For good while. Do you mean years? Months?

Speaker 5 (00:15:58):

No, this was probably one year, one or two years maybe. And I mean, I love gear so much, at least I did back then. So I did all of this out of passion. So later when I discovered, okay, I was actually able to make a little bit of money out of this, and I actually went to, this was 2012, I went to Nam in Los Angeles, and that was still the first time I was even out in public as the YouTube ULA guy. And I went there and I was supposed to record demos and shit like that. And I got there and people went up to me and thanked me for my videos and recognized me, and I was like, holy shit. I mean, this was the first time I was out in public and people recognized me and I was like, okay, I really think I am onto something here. So when I got home from them, I quit my job and I just needed to see how far I could push this YouTube thing. And I've been doing it for so many years now. I've made it more efficient. And I mean, I'm kind of stopping doing the YouTube thing. I'm doing it less now because I have bands and I try to concentrate on stuff that makes me happy, which is basically writing music and go out and go out play and all that.

Speaker 2 (00:17:20):

Interestingly enough, Keith feels the same way.

Speaker 5 (00:17:23):

Yeah, I mean, the thing is that everyone and their moms are doing demos now, and it's exactly the same thing. It's oversaturated with gear demos on YouTube now. And I mean, both me and Keith were probably first with doing what we do, and that's why both of us gained the recognition. And I think both of us do have the opportunity now to become someone else rather than the YouTube guy. Because I mean, for me, when people are referring me to the YouTube guy, I know where I come from. I know why that has made me recognizable, but I mean, I rather be remembered for the music and for the Mel, but

Speaker 2 (00:18:06):

YouTube is just an infrastructure. If you don't have good stuff going through there that catches people, it's going to fail. There's millions and millions of videos going up to YouTube every single day. So to actually develop a following, it's not an easy thing, but I feel like you skipped something between borrowing all those amps and getting to the point where you're at Nam and people know who you are. You have to learn how to make good videos in the process too, and that's a whole other thing. Yeah,

Speaker 5 (00:18:40):

Of course. I mean, I was making videos every week, so I always wanted to up my game. I mean, okay, this video was good. How can I make it better? The next time I bought cameras, I bought gear, it's studio stuff, and I just try to up my game all the time, and eventually you just become a master at your trade. I mean, this is the same way I learned about production. Basically, I was just trial and error and just trying to learn everything myself. I mean,

Speaker 2 (00:19:15):

So you didn't go to school for video?

Speaker 5 (00:19:17):

No, but I've been doing it since 2008 now. So I mean, it's like when you learn Photoshop, I mean, I wasn't as good of a Photoshop artist and 10 years back, and I didn't know anything about production in the start of 2000, but I mean, I forced myself to learn, and that's basically how everyone does it today.

Speaker 2 (00:19:36):

So started in 2008 doing this stuff, 2013 is when you realized that it's

Speaker 5 (00:19:42):

2012.

Speaker 2 (00:19:44):

Okay, so four years later you realized this might have some potential, and then I met you in 2013 and your life became amazing.

Speaker 5 (00:19:53):

Yeah, yeah. Okay. I met you and my life was amazing.

Speaker 2 (00:19:58):

Yes. Just like that. No, you see, you guys are great at English. But the reason I wanted to bring up the length of time is just to illustrate that no matter what you're doing with music or creative arts or building a business, this shit don't happen overnight. You may have only heard of Ola in 2012 or 2013 or recently, but the reason you even know about 'em is because of the years and years that went into it. Like anything else that requires a high level of skill.

Speaker 5 (00:20:34):

And I mean, the reasons I got to join six Feet under that was just like two months after I quit my job was basically because Chris saw my videos and the same thing goes with the haunted. I mean, the other guitar players saw my videos. So I have those two gigs to thank for my YouTube videos.

Speaker 2 (00:20:55):

Well, and that's the other thing that I think that you and both Keith share that makes everything you've done with the videos legitimate is you got accepted by one of the old school death metal bands and then the Haunted, and that just says right there that it's not just YouTube, you're the real deal. And just same way that Keith has conquering dystopia with Alex Rudin Ger and Alex Webster and Jeff Loomis. I mean, how much more credibility do you need? So with that said, let's talk about some guitar shit.

Speaker 3 (00:21:32):

I'm curious, what do you look at when you're looking for the quality, the build quality of a guitar? I know there's a lot of different guitars you can get built from all over the world, and I'm curious, what do you think is the best and what is it that you're looking for to determine what is the best?

Speaker 5 (00:21:53):

I mean, it's just basically, first impression is a very important aspect for me. I mean, as soon as I put the guitar in my lap, I can definitely feel like, okay, this was not built right or it's not built for me. I mean, you feel it in certain guitars. I mean, even these $5,000 guitars, you can put those in your lap. It's like, okay, and I don't even have to strum a cord or anything. I just sit with it and I feel like, okay,

Speaker 2 (00:22:26):

It's imbalanced or something.

Speaker 5 (00:22:27):

No, or it just feels off. It doesn't feel loved.

Speaker 2 (00:22:33):

Do you find that sometimes the really small boutique, super expensive companies have tougher time meeting good quality standards than some of the bigger manufacturers?

Speaker 5 (00:22:47):

I wouldn't say that. I mean, it's some certain, some custom shop guitars from various custom shop builders or brands. I mean, some of them are just out of this world. I mean, you can feel how well built it is. You can feel like all the joints, definitely. One of the first things I look at is just joints between fretboard and body. And I mean, you can see that's usually where the quality kind of, if there's a problem with joints or any ugly lines or anything like that, you can definitely feel like, okay, that sets the tone of the whole guitar and how well-built it was. And I mean, some custom built guitars just feels like

Speaker 2 (00:23:33):

Now, do you mean custom built as in the Washburn Custom Shop or do you mean

Speaker 5 (00:23:38):

Yeah, I, yeah, definitely. If we take that as an example, I can feel like when I take that guitar, I can definitely feel like, okay, this was made by people that actually care to make this guitar good and make it play well. But then again, I've got that kind of feeling when I've been sitting down with a $500 guitar as well. But then again, if it's from a series of guitars, an exact copy of that first $500 guitar, if I try another one, that one can be an absolute dud. So I mean, it's definitely up and down,

Speaker 2 (00:24:24):

But I'm sure that people aren't sending you the sweatshop made models. I'm sure they're sending you the ones that they actually care about or I would hope they are.

Speaker 5 (00:24:35):

I mean, to be completely honest, I'm not going to make this a Washburn. They're super awesome, but I mean, the guitars that I'm playing live are actually the sheep ones because if I bring my US guitars, I'm just going to break 'em and hit 'em into cabs and shit like that. It's already happening. That's

Speaker 2 (00:24:57):

Smart. No,

Speaker 3 (00:24:58):

That's good. That's a good thing to talk about too, because there's situations where you want to have a guitar that's dedicated for performing on a higher standard in the studio that doesn't get used in the live environment where it gets all beat up and messed up. Yeah,

Speaker 5 (00:25:17):

Exactly. Mean or stolen. The first Washburn I got was a white US custom shop, and I was super happy. It's super awesome place. Amazing. And I brought it live, and when I got home, I noticed that the case had got some bump into it and then open it up and it had a ship on the head stock, and that sucks when it's one of your favorite guitars. So that was like, okay, I'm not going to bring any of my more expensive guitars on tour. It doesn't make sense. And I mean, I bring all the sheep AST guitars on tour now. I mean, as long as they have the ever tune bridge and the pickups that I want, and I'm not really that picky with guitars, to be honest. I mean, as long as they play well,

Speaker 2 (00:26:12):

I mean, do you really think that the intricacies of tone that you would get from a slightly better guitar than a really good guitar will make any difference live anyways?

Speaker 5 (00:26:24):

Not at all. I mean, to be perfectly honest, I even recorded the last Fear album with my cheap guitar because that's the guitar I've been playing the most. And I mean,

Speaker 2 (00:26:38):

So it felt best on your hands?

Speaker 5 (00:26:39):

Yeah, I mean, it's not that it sounded the best. I mean, I went through guitar to guitar just to try which one sounds the best, but I mean, I'm getting the best feeling out of this guitar because it's the one I'm most used to and mean for me, that's more important to have the performance being better than the actual sound of the guitar. I mean, basically all the guitars sound the same because they're built the same. They're all set neck and they all have the same body, wood and all that, so it's not a big difference at all.

Speaker 2 (00:27:09):

Well, I mean that just goes back to the thing that we always say, which is the majority of your guitar tone is in your hands. That should be the priority. Whatever makes your hands play best. So if you're just echoing what we always say,

Speaker 5 (00:27:22):

I agree. I mean, that's also one of the curses I would say with me and my YouTube videos is that people are always writing like, yeah, Winola records an amp. It's basically sounds the same from demo to demo. And it's hard because that's the way I sound. I mean, I'm not trying to make every amp sound the same. It's just like my way of playing definitely shines through a lot of the amps.

Speaker 2 (00:27:52):

So real quick, when I was younger, my dad was very involved with ve.

Speaker 4 (00:27:57):

I love ve

Speaker 2 (00:27:58):

And everyone knows about him through his ALS and his strats, but I've sat with him on a tour bus playing through a little pig nose amp, Pret warming up. He sounded exactly the fucking same, but Joey, people say that about you as well, or they say that about Andy Sleep's productions. I think that people like to say that about people's work, even though it's not always true.

Speaker 3 (00:28:22):

Well, the other problem you get is you get people who, well, I get people that I work with who are a fan of what I do, and I might think like, okay, well I see what you guys are doing and I think we can make that interesting by doing it this way. And they might be like, well, we don't want to do it that way. We just want to do it the way you normally do, how you did this record or how you did that record. And I will get pigeonholed into having to do whatever the artist wants from me. I don't get the luxury of, I can't just reinvent myself every album because the people are coming to me for a specific sound or a specific reason.

Speaker 2 (00:29:04):

Do you think that's the same with Yola, that if you get hired to do a video, they're expecting what you do and they're not expecting you to give them something where you suddenly give them a Grateful Dead hippie jam band song?

Speaker 5 (00:29:20):

I mean, it definitely depends on what type of gear I'm trying. I mean, if someone sends me an orange champ, I mean, it's not like I'm going to slam an overdrive before and make it sound like every other amp win an overdrive in front of it. I mean, I guess people want to hear how the orange actually sounds, so it definitely feels like, okay, if I do an orange amp, I might do a sludge type of song or whatever. I mean, you definitely have to change it up for what type of gear you're trying to demo. I mean, but mean it's always the same. I'm using the same guitars, I'm using the same gear, I'm recording with my apogee and my cabin. It's always like an SM 57. I mean, it's going to sound the same in a mix together with bass and drums. They will sound even more the same.

Speaker 2 (00:30:16):

That brings up an experiment you did with Keith that I want to talk about, and correct me if I'm wrong, I seem to remember that you guys did an experiment just to prove this point where you both played the same song, through the same exact shit, just to show that two different players sound completely different with everything else the same.

Speaker 5 (00:30:39):

Yeah, I mean, I think it was once, I think Keith and I did one of my feared songs and we played through the Nosco, like Seymour Duncan Nosco pickup or something like that, and one of us amped it. I think it was Keith actually. And whenever it's Keith's part, it sounds like Keith, and whenever it's my part, it sounds like me. I mean, it's weird how it's

Speaker 2 (00:31:06):

It's true.

Speaker 5 (00:31:07):

No, it's not weird, but I mean it's

Speaker 2 (00:31:09):

A fact of life.

Speaker 5 (00:31:10):

Exactly. It's true. Yeah, that definitely showcased how the same equipment can definitely sound so much. It can differ so much. I mean,

Speaker 2 (00:31:22):

So in a way, it's good that you're using the same guitars and the same 57 and the same, if anything is different, it'll be the head you're showcasing.

Speaker 5 (00:31:32):

And it depends, I mean, a lot of people are expecting me to change it up. People have different expectations of what a test is. That's a good point. I mean, a lot of people are, they want to see me demo the same setup, just switch out the app or this pickup or whatever. And I mean, it's hard to make everyone happy, so I just do whatever works for me or whatever I have set up at the time. I mean, you're never going to win exactly at this. So I mean, it's like you just do what you feel is right and hope that people will enjoy it.

Speaker 3 (00:32:08):

You get on Gear Sluts and I follow Steven Slate on there, and I'll read through his little comparison things and he'll be like, okay, well we're going to compare this analog piece of gear with this plugin algorithm. And people are like, they go through the whole thing and Whoa, you didn't do the test. They get mad with the outcome, pick the one that sounds like the actual hardware, and they end up picking the plugin. They get all pissed off and he's like, Hey, it was a blind test. And they're like, yeah, but you didn't do this, you didn't do that. So I totally get it. And I think there is a lot of people that believe you need to have the most expensive guitar and the most expensive amp to get a great tone, and it's just simply not true.

Speaker 2 (00:32:53):

Not true at all. I do that test too with on my clients with the Kemper because a lot of the bands that I've recorded have a lot of purists in them who hate digital gear, hate this, hate that. And so I'll be like, okay, here's A and B one's a 51, 50 one's a 51 50 profile I made. Tell me which one is real. And typically they like the Kemper better, strangely enough, pisses them off. So let's talk about guitar tone. So we agree that it's primarily in the hands. Do you have any sort of practice routine or warmup routine or just ritual or anything that you do to get yourself in the mode to sound awesome or stuff you did before that led you to always sound awesome whenever you just plug in a guitar? What are you doing on guitar? What are you focusing on in order to get your tone?

Speaker 5 (00:33:56):

I mean, it's not like I have a ritual to make my tone awesome. I just plug in.

Speaker 2 (00:34:03):

Well, by ritual I don't mean drawing a pentagram and invoking Satan. I mean a ritual of the same 30 minute warmup you do every time or something.

Speaker 5 (00:34:16):

I mean, it's like, don't really, when I'm home recording, I don't really warm up at all. I mean, that's something I do when I'm out on tour and just to get warmed up before a gig, it's usually I want to have one hour where I can just sit around and just play and usually alternate picking up and down and just stupid stuff just to get the fingers going. But I mean, at home when I'm recording, it's like, yeah, I don't really bother warming up just to record. I take my cup of coffee eight o'clock after I drop my kid off at daycare. I just go in and pick up the guitar and start recording from where I left off the day before. And I, it's not as romantic, you would think. I mean, I'm just trying to make my time efficient as I can. And I mean,

Speaker 2 (00:35:09):

Actually think it's pretty romantic actually to already be at the point where you can just plug in and go.

Speaker 5 (00:35:14):

But I mean, I'm not playing over my ability, so it's not going to be a problem for me to start recording. I mean, sure, if I'm recording solos, yeah, sure. Might take a full day before I nail the solo. But usually for rhythm and this usual stuff that I do, which is basically okay, 90% what I record is our rhythms. And I mean that's automatically, I've been doing it for so long, so I don't really need to warm up.

Speaker 2 (00:35:45):

What were you about to say, Joey?

Speaker 3 (00:35:47):

I was going to say if you're, you're an athlete who does running and sure there's some stretches you need to do, but for someone that doesn't run at all ever, they would have to warm up and stretch way more than someone who does it every day. So I think the point is, if you're playing guitar on a regular basis, then I would assume that you would have to do a lot less warming up before you record and stuff. And I think the reason why you do want to warm up on tour is because you go from zero to a hundred in three minutes,

Speaker 4 (00:36:28):

Cold hands suck.

Speaker 5 (00:36:30):

Yeah, I, and then you're playing intensively for one hour. So I mean, it's not when I'm home recording, it's like, okay, record, delete. It's always pauses everywhere. And I mean, it's not like you're going to get tired in your arms or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (00:36:45):

So was there ever a time period in your life where you just practiced your fucking ass off?

Speaker 5 (00:36:50):

I mean, not to the point where I'm going when all John Petru and play like six hours a day. I mean, I've been playing for so long, I've been playing since I was 13 years old and I'm 33 today. So it's like I've been playing for 20 years and it's not like I've been practicing like an addict. I've just been doing it for shorter spurts through since 20 years. And

Speaker 2 (00:37:24):

Well, lemme tell you something that John Petru she said that echoes what you're saying. John Petru has always said, and I'm probably going to get the quote wrong, but that you get a lot more benefit if you play two hours a day every day than if you do six hours and then take a few days off and six hours and take a few days off. And I know a lot of guitar players who echo that, and Joel is actually one of the sickest guitar players I know. So what do you think about that?

Speaker 4 (00:37:54):

Well, it's not how long you practice. And I'm a guy that used to play 12, 13 hours a day just practicing things like speed picking. I mean, I took it to that level. I'm very, very obsessive. And I would say that what's the most important thing with practice is not the length of practice, but that you actually have a focused goal when you're practicing. So you're not just sitting there noodling, screwing around, dicking off. If you want to get better, you have to force yourself to get better and you have to get a game plan. It's like having a business plan, okay, how are we going to market this product? You figure out a strategy and then you work towards it and you execute. It's the same thing with practicing. You have to know what you want to accomplish, why you want to accomplish it, and what are the steps to get there.

(00:38:34):

So you could practice 20 minutes a day, but if it's a intense 20 minutes where you're focused, you're going to yield a much higher result than someone who practices six hours a day and just noodles. So I would say that I agree. I think that practicing in consecutive days is important, but you should definitely not overdo it. You can wear out your joints. That's something I kind of did from practicing too long as you get a little tendonitis. Well that and editing drums in the studio didn't help that at all. But I'm definitely a fan of practicing every day, but having a focused and intense practice versus just needlessly wandering.

Speaker 2 (00:39:10):

Well, I know that when I was practicing all the time, I had everything divided into 15 or 30 minute segments and I always had a goal for the day, the week, the month always. And I got even harder about that when I went to Berkeley because when I went to Berkeley, I thought I was going to get there and be surrounded by some fucking amazing people everywhere. And granted Gus G was in my dorm and James Malone from AIS was in my dorm. And so there were sprinklings of greatness here and there, but overall, most people sucked ass. And there were all these guys who practice 12 hours a day and they fucking suck. They're terrible. And it's like, what are you doing? How are you putting in this much time and just sucking. It's just because they sit there and they're like all day long not thinking about anything other than how high can I get this metronome marking? Not how clean can I play it at this speed? Just how fast can I get it all day? Most of them got injured.

Speaker 4 (00:40:12):

Let me interject and say cleanness is actually a function of slowness and a lot of people don't understand this. I spent a long time breaking down speed picking because for me it was a very, very difficult thing on guitar. And literally in a period of three weeks, I went from being able to pick slow to picking really fucking fast and cleanly. And the difference is I always tried to play as fast as I could and it was kind of sloppy. And I'm like, yeah, this isn't working. You have to go back to basics. So the way your neural tree grows in your brain when you're learning a new skill or if you're trying to unlearn, is you have to take something really retardedly slow with perfect technique and repeat it ad nauseum for a long time, then do it over a series of a couple of days, and then you start building that neural pathway.

(00:40:55):

Like this is how you move every little micro movement perfectly. And then when you speed it up, that neural pathway is now reinforced, so the speed will then correlate to what you've just trained into your hands. So you'll pick up speed, but you'll have that cleanness that you trained. And a lot of people glaze that they don't care. They just want to try to play as fast as they can. And I used to see this all the time. A guy will look at me sweep and like, dude, you're hitting three of the notes out of the 27 in that lick. What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:41:23):

Top note, bottom note,

Speaker 4 (00:41:25):

It used to piss me off. I'm a guy that actually learned to play all the notes. And it's all about learning to do it slowly and practicing it very perfectly every single time until it becomes a habit. And it's way harder to unlearn something that you've done incorrectly than it is to just do it right the first time. So that's something I used to harp on very, very much back in the day.

Speaker 2 (00:41:46):

Well, with all that said, okay, so for Olas case, because Ola, you just told us you're not into the John Petru shit, you're mostly play rhythm, so you will do solo sometimes, but

Speaker 5 (00:41:57):

Definitely

Speaker 2 (00:41:58):

There are times when you still need to learn new things like when you join a new band like the Haunted or six feet under. So how do you work that into your schedule and do you have a process for learning other people's stuff to the point where you can actually be good enough to get into yet another legendary band?

Speaker 5 (00:42:20):

The times that I've seen that my playing has progressed has been the times where I've joined new bands because I've been forced to learn someone else's music. The process that I have is basically before I even pick up the guitar, I just take all the songs that I need to learn and put 'em on my iPod or iPhone or whatever, and I just etch them into my skull. I mean, I listen to 'em all the time, every day, every night, and just to learn the songs exactly by heart in my head.

Speaker 2 (00:42:57):

Kevin Talley, who you were in a band with who I was in a band with who's one of the best death metal drummers ever who has filled in for just about every death metal band you can imagine, has learned entire sets for bands like Devil Driver Gojira, black Dahlia, murder on Plane Rides. And his first step is to do what you do, which is listen to it constantly so that it's ingrained to the skull. So just want to say, you're not the only one who does that. So okay, go on.

Speaker 5 (00:43:25):

And after that, when I know the songs by heart, I mean even the drums, I'm listening to all the instruments, not just the guitars. And so I know what parts after that when I know them by heart and I can basically sing along to the song, I pick up the guitar, and I mean, the process of learning the guitar parts are going to be so much easier when you know the songs by heart. And I mean then just picking out the songs is just super easy after that. It's always different when there's another guitar player who's written the music. So I mean, in that sense, it's very important to listen to know the songs by Hardy, even before trying to pick up the guitar, because it's going to be hard enough as it is just learning the music.

Speaker 2 (00:44:11):

And so then once you actually sit down with the guitar, then what's next?

Speaker 5 (00:44:15):

That's when I just start to pick out the songs I've always been doing. I mean, when I started playing guitar, I didn't have tabs or, I mean, I didn't have slow down apps or whatever. So I learned Pantera songs, just using Ear, and I mean, just trying to go back and forth and just trying to hit the notes and just try to transcribe the music with my ear rather than just trying to find a tab or notes. I don't know, any theory or anything like that. So I'm not,

Speaker 2 (00:44:47):

But you hear it, that's more important anyways.

Speaker 5 (00:44:50):

Yeah, I think in the end I think that's a better way for you to learn the guitar and I mean to discover the fretboard of your guitar as well. I mean, after a while, you're going to know exactly if you hear a tone where it, it's at from going from say like a simple e chord and you hear an interval of some note, and you'll definitely know where that note is if you've been doing it for as long as I've been doing it. So I mean, for me to transcribe a song, it's kind of a quick process as long as it's an easy song.

Speaker 2 (00:45:28):

Well, I'm sure that those ear skills that you developed have enabled you to be able to record so well and be able to focus on tone and get the parts right, because you have the ears in that spot. That's why you can just sit down and pump this stuff out. I'm talking about the videos and all that,

Speaker 5 (00:45:49):

And the thing that I've been doing it for so long, I mean, it has been my hobby since late nineties. And I mean, I've been trying to write riffs every day since the late nineties. So I mean, I have a lot of shit riffs in my past, but now when I try to write a riff for example, it's like, okay, I know exactly when it's a good riff or I can just scrape some other riff. So a lot of people ask me how to write riffs right now. It just comes naturally really, because I've been doing it for so long and I know beforehand if it's how to not write a shitty riff.

Speaker 2 (00:46:29):

Here's a question. Have you ever gone into the studio and been recorded by someone else?

Speaker 5 (00:46:34):

I have back in my first band. This was the late nineties.

Speaker 2 (00:46:43):

I was going to say, you don't mean six feet under

Speaker 5 (00:46:45):

No, because then I record myself at home in Sweden.

Speaker 2 (00:46:49):

So in all reality, you've been good enough to record on your own that you don't need to go to a studio at all?

Speaker 5 (00:46:57):

No, I mean, I like that instead to be able to record at home and not bother anyone else with my routines or I like having the ability to go grab my coffee whenever I want to go take a piss or go play video games and go pick up my kids from daycare. I don't want to bother anyone and take someone else's time. With the latest haunted album when we went to recorded drums, I always like to go and be in the studio as the songwriter and recording the drums. So I mean, it's more of me trying to be efficient, basically recording all my shit at home. So

Speaker 2 (00:47:44):

Let's talk about your rig at home. Let's talk about some hard recording stuff. Efficiency is key to you, you get great tones. So what's your setup?

Speaker 5 (00:47:52):

Yeah, it's basically been the same for the past year, so I'm always been using the Apogee stuff for recording. Even for recording di, I've always been using the instrument input, like the high Z input on the Apogee, and they've always been really clean and always been sounding awesome when I'm amping. So right now I'm using the Apogee Quartet, and this is, I've been using Beringer Truth monitors or speakers for the past two or three years.

Speaker 2 (00:48:29):

Don't tell Bobcats

Speaker 5 (00:48:32):

I actually switched from Gen X

Speaker 2 (00:48:34):

Now. That's interesting. Why did you do that?

Speaker 5 (00:48:36):

I was just having a hard time with the Gen X. I really try to like them and really try to make my shit sound good with them, but I was struggling and then I heard the Beringer and it's like, yeah, I mean, I dunno, they just sound better to me.

Speaker 3 (00:48:52):

Yeah, this is my argument against Bobcat Kaz is that I don't give a fuck. You could have half a million dollars speakers, but if you don't interact with them right then, who cares? Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:49:02):

Exactly.

Speaker 3 (00:49:04):

You could have $20 speakers, but if your mixes sound awesome,

Speaker 2 (00:49:07):

Yeah, who

Speaker 3 (00:49:08):

Cares? And that's working for you, then who cares? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:49:10):

So what about your guitar setup? Do you have it perma micd or do you mic it up every time?

Speaker 5 (00:49:16):

Usually I do mic it up every time, but right now I have a Randall ISO cabinet, like a four by 12. It looks like a regular four by 12, but it is actually an enclosed speaker with a micro

Speaker 2 (00:49:30):

Now Did you modify it at all?

Speaker 5 (00:49:31):

No, not this one. I had the old one that's like the classic isolation cabinet, which is basically just a big box with a one Celeste vintage in it. And that one I did try to mod because it was so boomy and really boxy sounding, and I used it and I mean, it's all right, but I mean at some point it was really hard to dial away that boxiness.

Speaker 4 (00:49:59):

Yeah, I've used that too. I had the same experience,

Speaker 5 (00:50:02):

And this four by 12 is actually a bit better and I haven't modified it at all.

Speaker 2 (00:50:07):

Wait, wait, wait. It's a four by 12 iso?

Speaker 5 (00:50:09):

Yeah, it's shaped like a big four by 12. This is new since last year.

Speaker 2 (00:50:15):

Oh,

Speaker 5 (00:50:15):

Wow. And inside it's a one by 12, so I mean it basically looks like it's four by 12, but it's an isolation cabinet.

Speaker 2 (00:50:23):

Well, one thing Andy Nee taught me is that a big part of the tone that comes out of miking a guitar is the actual shaking, the actual vibration of the cabinet itself once you get it going. So them making it into a four by 12 style makes a lot of sense to me.

Speaker 5 (00:50:43):

And I mean, I'm not having the same boxiness problem I had with the previous Randall Isolation cabinet, so right now have my microphone set up in there and I don't touch that setup at least. And then I just have a very many amplifier heads by the side of it.

Speaker 4 (00:51:07):

Here's a question for you, Ola. When you mic up an amp, what are you usually listening for? For example, if you're towards the center of the cone, you're going to get a lot more brightness where if you go to where the dust cap meets the center, you get a little bit less. Or if you go out and towards the sides, it's a bit darker and there's a lot of different theories. And I feel like when I was learning to mic cabinets, this is something that took me years to dial in, what to listen for, where all of a sudden you're like, yeah, that's going to translate great in a mix. So what do you usually listen for when you're miking a cab? Because no one can deny the tones that you get. I

Speaker 5 (00:51:39):

Mean, the thing that I've discovered is the way that I mic my speaker now is basically to fit the sound of my hands because it's not going to sound the same. If Keith Merrill was playing the same rig that I have at home, I would probably mic it different. I've been miking it for miking cabinets for so long. I mean, what I found is that my kind of sweet spot, it's just outside the center. So I mean, the microphone basically just touches the center of the speaker. And for me, that's the most pleasant part of, gives the most pleasant sound basically for my kind of playing I, keeping it simple, I mean, I like having just one microphone and not having five on a cabinet because if I have five, I will never be able to get satisfied with any combination. I mean, if I have too many options, I'm going insane. So I like having the one microphone only and I mean just outside the center cone, is that what you call it, the cone or the center?

Speaker 4 (00:52:50):

Sure, yeah,

Speaker 5 (00:52:50):

Just outside. That's like my sweet spot. I would say at least for a V 30 speaker with a T 75, I like to have it just a bit further out actually. So it's definitely differ from speaker to speaker and from who's playing. Actually,

Speaker 2 (00:53:12):

Let's talk about one mic versus many, because I think the cliche term of phrase goes, if you can't get a good sound with 1 57, you don't know how to get a good sound.

Speaker 4 (00:53:24):

Oh man, this gets me fired up.

Speaker 2 (00:53:26):

Yeah, let's talk about it.

Speaker 4 (00:53:28):

I mix a lot of records. I clear usually more than 50 songs a month. And what really pisses me off is when people send me a multi mic setup where they've got five mics going on and every single one of them sounds like shit. And it's like, if you can't get one to sound good, what makes you think that putting three more shitty ones to sum into that is going to make it sound good. Now some dudes pull it off and get amazing tones, for example, will Putney I think is fantastic at that, but a lot of the best tones I get to mix where I'm not like, okay, I need to reamp this, this sucks, is usually where somebody just has a single per track and there's one performance, so it's just one mic and they committed something and usually those guys seem to have it a lot better than the guys who send me five mics and Rand.

Speaker 2 (00:54:16):

Well, something interesting was I was watching a SDOs Place video where he is talking about getting heavy guitar tone and it had five different microphones and I didn't think the tone was all that great. I mean, I think that he's amazing and that show's amazing. But it's interesting to me that the sickest heavy tones I've heard are generally, like you said, one mic

Speaker 4 (00:54:41):

Wait, Dave Sato was telling people how to get a heavy guitar tone.

Speaker 2 (00:54:44):

Yeah, there's one of them that fuck's all about getting a heavy guitar tone.

Speaker 4 (00:54:48):

Don't want. I love Pesto's Place and I think it's a great show and I have the highest amount of respect for Dave and what he does there. But I feel like in the heavy guitar game, there are maybe 20 to 50 guys in the world in terms of producers and mixers and stuff that continually rip out six shit, for example, sneak or Colin Richardson or Ola, you rip really amazing sounds and it's like the guys who got there didn't get there by accident. So it's like when I think of great guitar tone, I think of those guys. So when somebody else that isn't known one for getting great guitar tone, I dunno, I hold it to that standard. I'm like, all right, well Andy Snips, guitar tone sound like this, and then there's everybody else's kind of, if that makes sense. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:55:30):

Well, the guitar tones in a lot of pop mixes I'm talking about heavy tones are not that good.

Speaker 4 (00:55:36):

Oh, they're terrible. Yeah, usually, usually. But then again, you go like Active rock and those guys know how to get really awesome guitar tones. So just, I don't know. I think that if you're producing hip hop and pop and shit like that, you probably shouldn't be teaching people how to mic heavy guitars, but I'll keep my opinions to myself.

Speaker 2 (00:55:56):

Well, I just think that in the more traditionalist recording approach, which is completely opposite of metal, because metal breaks almost every single rule imaginable in recording, they tend to, the idea of having a ton of microphones on there, all kinds of condensers and ribbons and all this shit,

Speaker 4 (00:56:18):

It's an ego thing. It's like, okay, I was reading this thing about Frank Phillip Petty when he was recording corn. He's like, yeah, man, we used five mics on the kick drum to get that sound. And I'm like, fuck off. You used five mics, you grabbed a sample, you may have blended five mics into a thing, but you grabbed one sample, replaced one of those tracks, and boom, there's your sound. You know what I mean? People like to overly complicate things because it's an ego thing. It makes them feel better. Like, oh, I'm using five mics. Look at Migo. And the band is sitting there going, oh yeah, dude, that's so cool, man. He used five mics to get our sound. Whoa. And it's like a pothead moment where you're just like, no way. So I believe in simplicity. I used to overcomplicate a lot of things, but then I realized it was just me wanting to feel better about myself and had nothing to do with the actual results that I was getting. So once I started simplifying in my career, I started getting a much better result. And yeah, it didn't look as cool, but I dunno, that's just my 2 cents on that. You're

Speaker 2 (00:57:16):

Not looking at a record or looking at a guitar sound in the end product, though. You're listening.

Speaker 3 (00:57:22):

Should we talk about the comparison of analog real tones with mics versus amp simulators?

Speaker 2 (00:57:30):

Absolutely. Because I mean, Ola, you've got your own amp, the Satan Amp, but you've also worked with a lot of Sims and did the thing for Menace. You do Sims stuff as well. Do you find a big difference between the two?

Speaker 5 (00:57:50):

Well, I basically use Sims when I'm mostly, when I'm just demoing or doing writing songs and stuff like that. I mean, for me, it's very convenient to use the Sims because then I can go out on tour with my small computer and I can get the same sound in my songwriting with the Sims, I mean, but the problem is that I have my amp and my sound, and the problem is that I can't really get away from that using the Sims because that's just the way that I sound. I mean, a lot of those sims sound super awesome, but the thing I was talking about, my curse with the way that I sound with my hands is that I think a lot of other people sound way better than I do with the Amp Sims. I mean, for me, I'm using Amp Sims for demos and if I'm doing less metal stuff, but when it comes to doing the haunted or feared and stuff like that, I need to have the amplifier and the micd cabinet because it's just something I've always been doing. And I mean, I feel the most comfortable doing it that way.

Speaker 2 (00:59:03):

I think it's you're a player

Speaker 5 (00:59:05):

Maybe.

Speaker 4 (00:59:06):

Do you feel like there's a difference response? Because when I pick up an amp sim, the way it reacts to my pick attack is very different than how a Real Amp does. And I can feel it right away just on how the palms or just the intricacies and the way that I riff. And it's something that, to me, playing through a sim feels weird until I play through it for a very long time and then it starts feeling a little bit more natural. But when I go back to a real amp, I'm always like, oh yeah, no, that feels right.

Speaker 2 (00:59:34):

Well, I mean, I'll just say as a guitar player that I'm very much into Sims, especially when I'm recording other people and hell, I've used Sims to record my own stuff as well. But as a guitar player, there's a big difference when you're plugging into a rig that's fucking going like an original 51 50 micd up properly has something that a sim doesn't have. And I do think there's something in the response that's different.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):

I also think though, that Sims have something that amps don't have too. It's just a different size. Totally.

(01:00:15):

What I noticed a lot with the Sims is there's just way more consistency. And maybe that's the one thing that people actually don't like about the Sims is that they are too consistent. But when I have a certain chord being played and going through the sim and it's being played at a certain velocity level, it has the same sound every single time. Whereas in the analog world, that doesn't really happen. You've got a lot more variance, especially because there's air moving as well. So I think that they both deserve a spot in the world, and they both have their strengths and weaknesses in their pros and cons.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):

Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):

And so it's just interesting to hear someone who's embracing both sides like me, I don't really use a lot of real amps, but I'm not opposed to doing it.

Speaker 5 (01:01:07):

I think a problem that I have is that people are expecting me to record the amps, so I won't get away using absence because people are definitely going to hear it and

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):

Well, it's where you started. You started with the real amps.

Speaker 5 (01:01:22):

Exactly. And people expect that. And I mean, if I would go and use absence on a haunted album, I mean, it would probably sound awesome, but then again, people wouldn't expect that from me. So I kind of probably painted myself into a corner

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):

With that one. Yeah, it's the same thing with my productions. I can't go into some analog studio and record an album on tape because people don't expect me to pitch forks.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):

I want to just tell you guys something from my Florida experiences. We have a massive arsenal of amps down there. I'm in Atlanta right now, but in Florida, basically there's a room where all my amps, all of Mark Lewis's amps and all of Jason Sukkos amps, they're all there and they're all piped into a room that has cabinets with a bunch of mics, different cabinets and all that. And it's kind of like amping heaven. There are a lot of amps in there, all kinds of stuff. From the basic dvs to your amps there, Ola to my Bogner Sanos, lots of fucking stuff. And sometimes I will go Reamp in there, and I still like the sim tone better. So I feel like there's always room at the table for both. The technology has come so far for Amp Sims, so we're not liking the world of the Pod 2.0 anymore, which actually was okay.

Speaker 5 (01:02:57):

That was amazing. At the time though,

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):

It was very amazing at the time,

Speaker 5 (01:03:00):

Call Diamond Plate,

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):

The world has advanced and digital technology is much further along than it used to be. So I think what it comes down to in a lot of cases is what makes the player that's being recorded play the best? What's going to feel the best for him? Because as a guitar player who really worked hard at guitar, I'm very sensitive to the way something feels when I'm playing through it, and the feel is definitely not the same. However, when I'm recording somebody else, I often prefer Sims because it's easier for me to get the job done.

Speaker 5 (01:03:38):

Just a small detail. When I'm tracking guitars or tracking di, I actually monitor through my ax effects, so I'm not actually monitoring from using my Amps, I'm using Sims and stuff like that all the time. It's just like the end amping for the actual end product where I'm using the apps or when I'm just for shits and giggles sit around and just play guitar at home. And

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):

That's how I use my Kemper too. And the thing though is I feel like the Kemper and the ax effects do respond a lot closer to Real Amps than Fully Software. Now, that's not true a hundred percent of the time, but I do feel like, I mean, we're talking about $2,000 hardware units. A lot of work came into it, and especially with the latest Kemper firmware, it just responds a lot more like the real thing. What about other aspects of your mixes? It's not just about guitar tone.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):

Well, I can say one thing because we worked on that sample for Menace, and I could tell that a guitar player had mixed it.

Speaker 5 (01:04:47):

Oh yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):

You can always tell those things. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:04:51):

Well, I mean it's like for a demo of an Amps sim, the guitar should be allowed.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So definitely warranted in that scenario. Yeah, but what exactly do you use? I guess you're a hundred percent in the box or are you not?

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):

What do you mean? In what sense? With other stuff?

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):

So in the box means you don't use outboard summing gear? No, you don't use an analog board, you don't use a console.

Speaker 5 (01:05:20):

Everything is in Logic. The Apogee is all I have that is outboard. The one thing that connects me between my for amping is the torpedo reload, like a Reamp box.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):

I've heard a lot about that. I have no idea what it even is.

Speaker 5 (01:05:41):

It's basically a DI box, a reamp box, and Attenuator at the same time. So I mean, it's basically, yeah, that's actually become a pretty center piece of equipment of my setup because nowadays I track all my DI through there and I re-amp everything through that as well. So the two key pieces of gear that I have is that torpedo reload and the Apogee, I would say. Other than that,

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):

Do you use the Attenuator on it?

Speaker 5 (01:06:14):

Not really.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):

I was going to say you've got an ISO cab, why would you need

Speaker 5 (01:06:17):

To? No, but it has, if you want to be able to crank, and I mean a lot of people that are recording at home don't have the ability to crank their apps, and it just gives you the option.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):

Let's talk about Attenuators for a second. If anybody here has had experience with them, my experience with them, and now this might be outdated, but my experience is that they destroy amplifiers. Amplifiers blow up, literally. Maybe the technology is better now. So I'm talking like 10 years ago?

Speaker 5 (01:06:47):

I think so. I mean, I've tried the THD back in the past and what they're called, they're called

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):

Hot Plate.

Speaker 5 (01:06:55):

Hot Plate, and I haven't had any problems with those, but I think as long as you use them moderately, it won't sound like ass or I don't think they'll blow up. I think the problem is that people are turning up their amps way too loud when they're using the Attenuator. So I mean, I think that might be one of the reasons why they blow up.

Speaker 4 (01:07:19):

Well, there is only one volume setting for any amp, and that's obviously all tens. So

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):

Every set, every knob all the way up at all times.

Speaker 5 (01:07:29):

So I mean, you still need to be careful it's still a living piece of gear that you're working with. I mean, in the same way that you wouldn't crank a one by 12 cabinet with a hundred watt amplifier. I mean, it's the same basic principle I would say.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):

So don't be an idiot, basically.

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):

I mean, just be careful. I mean, you don't have to fucking, your amp doesn't sound the best when it's cranked at fucking three. I mean, it's not,

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):

Your car doesn't run the best when you floor it all the way and try to go the top speed.

Speaker 5 (01:08:08):

No, so I mean it's be moderate and with your master volume and you'll be fine.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):

Okay. Are there any plugins that you favor over others?

Speaker 5 (01:08:18):

I'm a very big fan of the Stock Logic plugins.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):

Thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:08:21):

All the That's awesome. Shannon Lee Hugs the compressor has been, I mean, they've really upgraded the compressor. I think it was the last update. They did a full makeover of the compressor, and I also use their multi pressor and the multi-bank compressor, and I've also been a very big fan of their ad limiter, but I just recently started using the Fab filter.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):

They make good stuff,

Speaker 5 (01:08:52):

At least where they're limited. When I was mixing the Latest Fear album, I just tried a whole bunch. I bought a bunch of limiters just to try 'em out. A lot of slate, a lot of stuff like that. And I mean, I think the Fab Filter one was just the one with most transparency, I would say. I mean, it's a really good one. I like that one a lot

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):

Once you figure out the attack release on it. I think that that actually is a really, really good one. I'm glad you said that though, because one thing that we try to impress upon our listeners is that just like if you can't get a good tone with the 57, you can't get a good tone if you can't make it work with stock plugins for the most part, you're not going to be able to make it work with more expensive plugins. The stock plugins are good enough for just about everything. Now, of course, there's plugins that'll get you a certain tone color or more advanced stuff that you can definitely get into, but at the very fundamental level, you should be able to work with all stock plugins and still get a killer result.

Speaker 5 (01:09:58):

Yeah, I mean, when I started, I couldn't really afford plugins. I mean, when I was sitting with Cakewalk nine or whatever, I mean, you used what was there, and I mean, I've been using Logic for probably 12 years or something like that, so I'm very accustomed to it. And yeah, I mean, just the channel EQ is super awesome. I love doubt and

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):

Let me change, unless you guys want to talk about stock plugins and stuff a little longer. I know we're almost out of time, so there's just one more thing I want to bring up because this is something that a lot of people are trying to get into and it's exceedingly more important with every passing year, and that's video and okay. The reason I want to bring this up is because I know that Keith went to school for it, and obviously he was better than everybody else and got himself a career before he even graduated school. You say you didn't go to school for video and you just got better by doing it a lot, but what on Earth made you even think that it was important to do it all the time? And what kind of tips would you recommend for audio people who want to get into making video? I don't just mean making gear demos and stuff. I just mean people who want to be able to take more video and incorporate that into what they do because it is a fact of life. You need video now.

Speaker 5 (01:11:28):

I mean, like we talked about before, I mean the music business is so oversaturated with bands. I mean, you have to have a video of some sort. I mean just to promote yourself and I mean, it's a lot more appealing and it's probably going to be a lot easier to keep people's interest. I mean, their attention up with having a video rather than just, yeah, hey, come listen to this SoundCloud clip that I did. I mean, I think it's so important that people can watch you. I think a lot of people want to see you perform and nail whatever you are playing or whatever. I mean, it's in an oversaturated world. I think just having videos or just trying to be on every social media just to be a virus is definitely something you have to do to be able to stand out.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):

What did you do to get better at it besides just doing it a lot? Or is that what you did?

Speaker 5 (01:12:33):

My kind of luck, I would say was that I was one of the first ones that actually did it. So I saw a very quick gathering of people that watched my video, so I was like, okay, let's just keep on doing it and up the pace and up the quality. I was probably the first guy who did these videos in high definition at the time, people didn't have high definition cameras. And I mean, just that and trying to just up my game all the time and just trying to force myself to become better and just edit better and just make everything sound better or look better. I mean, I bought lights. I made everything look better. You just don't sell for the bedroom video with dimed lights and just you sitting in playing on the side of your bed. I mean, it's just try to up your game a little bit, put some effort into it. I mean, it's pretty simple.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):

It's just, I mean, the info's out there

Speaker 5 (01:13:33):

And it's for free. I mean, these services are free right now. I mean, Facebook is free and it's basically free marketing if you know what you're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):

Yeah, if you have good content, the infrastructure is there for you to get it out to people. It's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 5 (01:13:49):

It is an excellent era to live in if you're like a bedroom guitar playing guy or whatever. Like I said, it's oversaturated with both awesome and shitty material, but I mean, it's definitely a Darwin thing. The Strong will survive. I mean, those will pop up, and those are the people that are going to last.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):

Is there anything you've got coming up you want to promote? Any Cool Amps, guitars, albums, any?

Speaker 5 (01:14:16):

Oh, I do have a bunch of cool guitar stuff coming, and also of course in the AMP department as well, but nothing I can talk about. Of course, other than that, I'm working on, I'm currently writing an upcoming haunted album, so we're kind of trying to do that one quick. And other than that, I'm out touring the summer doing some festivals and shit like that. I'm trying to have a bit of vacation and try to spend some time with my family and hopefully also get some time to play some video games because I haven't been into that for a while.

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):

Yeah, vacation is good for the soul, man.

Speaker 5 (01:14:54):

Yeah, I know. Vacation for me is amping and playing video games at the same time,

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):

So you don't take the six week Swedish vacation.

Speaker 5 (01:15:07):

I mean, you can really, when this is your style of living. I mean, I did when I had my regular day job, but right now it's like there isn't really a vacation. Vacation for me, I would say is when you go on tour or go play festivals because you, someone tells you what to do and yeah, sit on this, share over here and put your ass on this bus, I mean, and go here, put your guitar on and play this show. I mean, there's a plan beyond everything and for me,

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):

So when your mind is free of having to cultivate the plane. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:15:45):

Yes, exactly. And I can't really do the, there's no wifi or whatever. The wifi is shot, and I mean, I can't be on Facebook. That's definitely my vacation when I'm out playing with the haunted because someone else is taking care of me. I'm like, I'm back being like a baby and just sitting around and just waiting for someone to tell me what to do, and that's awesome for me. I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):

My one experience of being a session guitar player on a tour was fantastic. All I had to do was show up and kick ass on guitar. I loved it.

Speaker 5 (01:16:18):

Yeah, exactly. I mean, the six feet under gig I had was awesome because the songs were easy. I just played rhythm guitar. I mean, some songs only had two riffs, and it's basically for, it was so awesome. I could drink, and I mean, I can just hang and just chill and just rock the fuck out. I didn't have any solos to worry about or anything like that. It was super awesome. That

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):

Sounds great. Well, Ola, thank you so much for coming on. It's been awesome talking to you as usual.

Speaker 5 (01:16:46):

Definitely. Oh, thank you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):

Yeah, I think our audience will really, really appreciate this. We've got a lot of guitar players and obviously everybody who records has to record guitar players, so it's great to get the perspective from a guitar player who records and how you go about it.

Speaker 5 (01:17:05):

Yeah. Thanks a lot, man.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):

So thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:17:07):

I hope something I said made sense.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):

Absolutely. At 10% of it, at least 10% of it made sense.

Speaker 5 (01:17:13):

That's kind of my ratio right there, like 10% is what makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):

Cool. Well, thanks, man.

Speaker 5 (01:17:19):

Oh, thank you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):

Yeah. Well, I'll be talking to you soon, man. Have a

Speaker 5 (01:17:23):

Take care of yourself. Bye-bye. See

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):

Yeah, see you. The Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast is brought to you by Creative Live, the world's best online classroom for creative professionals with classes on songwriting, engineering, mixing, and mastering. Go to creative live.com/audio to start learning now. The Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast is also brought to you by Ernie Ball, the world's premium manufacturer of guitar strings, bass strings, and guitar accessories. Go to www.ernieball.com to learn more. To ask us questions, suggest topics and interact. Visit urm academy.com and subscribe today.