KRIS CRUMMETT: The 2000s Post-Hardcore Scene, Designing a Studio From Scratch, The Psychology of Producing

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Creative Live, the world's best online classroom for creative professionals with glasses on songwriting, engineering, mixing and mastering. The Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast is also brought to you by Sound Toys and audio effects developer dedicated to bringing color, character, and creativity to the world of digital audio. And now your host, Joey Sturgis, Joel Wanasek, and Eyal Levi. Alright,

Speaker 2 (00:00:28):

So welcome to the Joey Sturgis Forum podcast again. Here we are. We've got a really cool dude on with us today, Mr. Kristopher Crummett. I like to call you crumpet or trumpet. That's what I call him. That's what they called me in

Speaker 3 (00:00:44):

Line high school preschool. So it makes sense. He's going to punch

Speaker 4 (00:00:47):

You in the nose,

Speaker 3 (00:00:48):

Joey. It's pretty normal. I don't know how people put the P in there, but it's anyone who announces my name, there's, they take out an M and add a P.

Speaker 4 (00:00:57):

You should hear what people do to my last name. Holy shit.

Speaker 3 (00:01:00):

I can imagine.

Speaker 5 (00:01:00):

Well, Joel, with your last name, I didn't even know how to spell it For the first six months that I knew you.

Speaker 4 (00:01:07):

It's exactly pronounced as it's written. It's really simple, but no one can get it. So yeah,

Speaker 5 (00:01:12):

But going back in time, whenever I have to update a link or something and I see where I wrote your name, I noticed I got it wrong a lot a while ago. I went on a mission to fix it. But yeah, your name's rough.

Speaker 4 (00:01:25):

I'm going to get a cool stage name, but the problem is my first name is Joel, which doesn't lead to very many cool stage names, so I'm kind of screwed.

Speaker 5 (00:01:33):

Yeah, you're fucked.

Speaker 2 (00:01:35):

So Chris, I got a story and I want to know if you remember, do you remember the first Prada record?

Speaker 3 (00:01:41):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:01:43):

Bit. I wonder how many people know this. So yeah, the whole thing went down with Prada and I did their first album, and at that point in my career I had no, well, first of all, it wasn't a career at that point. I was just recording bands in a garage, but I didn't know how to master and the label was pretty worried about it. I think we employed you to do it right?

Speaker 3 (00:02:05):

Yeah, and I'm not sure that I knew how to master back then either to tell you the truth, but I tried.

Speaker 5 (00:02:12):

Yeah. What year?

Speaker 2 (00:02:14):

I think it was 2005, 2006

Speaker 5 (00:02:18):

Maybe?

Speaker 2 (00:02:18):

Yeah.

Speaker 5 (00:02:19):

Oh wow. Way back.

Speaker 2 (00:02:21):

Yeah, it was a little ways back. So yeah, I always remember that that was a very motivational moment for me because I didn't like the fact that someone else had to do something that I wasn't capable of doing.

Speaker 3 (00:02:31):

And

Speaker 2 (00:02:32):

It kind of

Speaker 3 (00:02:32):

Like, which is why I started doing that stuff

Speaker 2 (00:02:34):

In the first place, really put a boot in my ass to fucking figure out how to do some mastering. So thanks for that. And also thanks for the great job you did. I think you made the record sound a lot better. So yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:02:48):

It was a cool record to work on. It was definitely a turning point in music and with a rise, the label I'd been working with for a long time and it was honestly one of the first records that I had mastered for someone else. So I'm glad that it actually turned out and that it motivated you to get better at your craft.

Speaker 2 (00:03:09):

The other thing too that was interesting about that time period is there was sort of a lot of people talking about you because you did that drop Dead gorgeous. And I just remember we were driving in the car and they're like, Joey, you got to hear this record. This is awesome. And they'd show it to me and I'd be like, fuck man, that sounds awesome. How do I do that?

Speaker 3 (00:03:30):

I remember having some conversations about that record early on some A OL instant Messenger chats. A OL. Hell yeah, dude. So awesome.

Speaker 4 (00:03:38):

It just got 1999 in here.

Speaker 5 (00:03:41):

Oh yeah. A OL chat was the thing in 2005. Yeah, that kind of blows my mind that you guys knew each other and this was a whole thing back then because honestly I had never even heard of that band until 2010 or something. It come from such a different end of the heavy spectrum that what you guys are talking about. I have no memory of it whatsoever. I didn't even know it was going on. It shows you where I'm at. Well,

Speaker 2 (00:04:09):

They were kind of the start, I think, to the success of Rise because they got sold off to a different label and it was for a large amount of money.

Speaker 5 (00:04:18):

Well, I know now what they are. It's funny with a lot of those rise bands on the part of the metal scene that I was in, nobody took those bands seriously at all.

Speaker 2 (00:04:29):

Oh yeah,

Speaker 5 (00:04:30):

Absolutely. Yeah. We didn't realize that they were actually really big bands and that it was a massive movement in music that was going to kind of take things over. We just thought that it was some silly shit with bands with funny haircuts dancing around and doing techno.

Speaker 3 (00:04:48):

Yeah, and why the fuck are there keyboards all of a sudden sort of thing. I mean, I remember kind of thinking that too. I remember making that Drop dead record and being like, what is going on sometimes and being like, how funny can we make this? But then it's like, this is actually pretty freaking cool and I got it once we were really in it, I got it. I got what they were doing and it was different for me too. I come from a eighties metal to grunge to loving Vagrant records bands and stuff. Wasn't really in touch with the mid 2000 scene stuff, so it was interesting being thrown into that. But it's pretty cool because I kind of know what you're talking about because I watched all my friends be like, what the fuck are you doing? Who are these bands you're working with? What is going on? It was like Drop Dead gorgeous. And then Devil Wears Prada was clearly into Drop Dead and doing their thing. And then those two bands and Rise kind of spawn this whole new genre of music that grew and got huge.

Speaker 5 (00:05:51):

The moment when I knew that shit was changing was when my band, who's a death metal band, was out on tour with some hardcore bands like Acacia Strain and Ja Cowboy, which at that point in time was a Death Corps band. This was in 2007. And we just got done playing a super violent set with people breaking each other's bones and all kinds of gang violence and seriously a pretty scary show. The moment we got done playing the house, music comes on and it's Blink 180 2 and the entire crowd started singing it. And it is just the strangest thing ever for me because growing up you'd go to a heavy show and that would never happen. Nothing like that. Ever.

Speaker 3 (00:06:37):

Oh yeah. Hell

Speaker 2 (00:06:37):

No.

Speaker 5 (00:06:38):

Yeah, that's like alternate universe stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:06:41):

Well, you got a melting pot going on and I noticed that the same thing happening when asking Alexandria first came to work with me and I didn't know who the hell they were, but they knew who I was from my space and I started recording their songs and I'm like, man, this is so weird and I just can't wait to get this done and get it out of my life. And it turns out to be the biggest band that I ever worked with. So

Speaker 4 (00:07:07):

I remember that back in the day. I had kind of a interested experience at the scene the first time. It was right around that time when that stuff was coming out and I was giving a guitar clinic and the clinic guy set me up with some random legion hall show. Since you're in town, you got a bass player and a backtrack, you want to just come play some show at the bar that we put together? And I'm like, yeah, sure. So I had nothing else to do. We walk in and there's all these kids with pink belts on and really tight jeans and really dumb hair. And I'm coming from a Swedish metal background. I was a thrash metal dude and all that stuff. And I walk in, I'm like, what the fuck? So I get up there and I'm playing my shred show and everybody just sitting there with looking at me, I'm crazy, like instrumental shred guitar. And then they started bowing down and moving their fingers like spaghetti. It was just really weird and awkward and I got off stage and then all of a sudden the next band comes out and it just starts playing opens and everybody's just throwing all these ninja moves and punches and I'm like, what the fuck is this? I had no idea. Just came out of nowhere. I'm like, there's like 300 kids here throwing back fists. When did this come in?

Speaker 5 (00:08:12):

Yeah, it came in and it never went away. Actually, I have a question for all of you guys in here based on how weird everyone thought this stuff when it was happening, and with asking Alexandria being the biggest thing you've done unexpectedly. So have you guys felt ever that you can't really tell when you're working with a band whether or not anyone's going to care? I'm just asking because I've worked on so many records where I've been like, yes, this is so fucking good and then nobody cares. And then work on one where the band basically is a local band that got a record deal where you have to just surgically construct everything. And

Speaker 2 (00:08:51):

I know exactly where you're going with this

Speaker 5 (00:08:53):

And you're like, God, this is so horrible. And then it gets huge.

Speaker 3 (00:08:58):

I don't think the answer is that simple, honestly, for me, I think there's a couple levels of that definitely. I've had the experience where a band comes in and I'm like, what the fuck? What am I supposed to do here then? But by the time the record's done or we're getting into the mixing process, I know, you know what I mean? You hear the music, you hear the songs, you hear what people are going to like about it. You're taking a shower and singing these songs and you're like, what I, this is actually pretty awesome. You get that emotional connection with the songs and that's when you know that it's going to have some sort of level of success. But I think it's actually easier to identify when something's going to be successful when you start to attach yourself at the end. I feel like a lot of projects where from the get-go, not a lot of projects, lemme take this back, some projects where from the get-go I'm like, I love these songs. This is amazing. I'm emotionally attached to it. I don't know if by the end I have as clear of an understanding of if I'm just attached to the music or if I know that it's going to be popular, if that makes sense.

(00:10:09):

So there's both those levels and then there's records that are awesome and the label loves 'em and just the timing isn't right. IE closure in Moscow, bands like that that I've worked with that I know I made an awesome record. I know it's amazing, but it wasn't the right time.

Speaker 2 (00:10:26):

I definitely feel what you're saying. Al and Chris, I've experienced that on many, many, many projects. There was this before their eyes record that I did and I was like, man, these songs are amazing. I don't see how this can't succeed. And of course it flopped because they didn't have the right marketing team. Nobody knew how to position it on radio. They didn't have the money or the backing to get anywhere with that kind of mentality. Anyway, so it really comes down to just, there's two things to it. There's two sides. You've got to have great material, but you also have to have, at the end of the day, the material is a product and you have to have somebody that knows what to do with that. So I think there's bands that come along who have a great social following and a great fan base. They might not be the most talented musicians in the world, but that fan base is how it enables them to push a product onto those people. And those people already love whatever it is, and they just are attracted to it and they'll take to it. So it's a two-way street. Definitely.

Speaker 5 (00:11:31):

And I think that there's a third level to it as well, which is that the band itself has the, I guess the emotional fortitude and maturity to not implode.

Speaker 2 (00:11:45):

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because being in a band is completely difficult and hardcore.

Speaker 5 (00:11:51):

It is when you get to the touring level. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (00:11:54):

And I think one of the toughest things about that is to, one of the parts of creating good art and creating really emotional music is being somewhat emotionally unstable. Absolutely. Then you have to be a stable team and you have to sell your product like Joey said, and you have to stick together. And that's a tough thing for bands for sure.

Speaker 5 (00:12:15):

Well, it takes a certain kind of person to be able to turn it on when it comes to expressing the art

Speaker 4 (00:12:22):

And

Speaker 5 (00:12:23):

Then turn it off when it comes to taking care of business. Well,

Speaker 4 (00:12:26):

That spawns a question here for you, Chris. So when you have situations like that in the studio, for example, because it can get just as difficult in the studio making a record with certain members of certain bands versus on the road when you have to live with them, how do you deal with those really, really difficult people that are just intent on my way or piss off? I know everything, everybody else in the band is an idiot and so are you Mr. Producer, we're doing it like this. What strategies do you like to employ to deal with? I would call them troublemaker band kids, guys, whatever.

Speaker 3 (00:12:57):

Well, I mean if that really happens, I just have to lay down the law pretty much. And there's a little give and take with that too because sometimes they're not wrong. So you kind of have to know when to play along and when to put your foot down. But honestly, I've been pretty lucky to not deal with very many people like that over the past 10, 12 years. The bands that have guys that are more like when I was younger and getting less important projects and guys that really hadn't been around the block. You know what I mean? At this point in my career, I rarely face problems like that.

Speaker 5 (00:13:38):

I have noticed from personal experience that typically with few exceptions, and there are obviously exceptions, but with few exceptions, the more pro and seasoned a band is, the less I've seen that kind of stuff happen. The highest I guess, frequency of that that I've ever dealt with has been with baby national bands. It just got signed. Egos are bigger than my house, but they don't know shit because they're basically a local band that just got their deal.

Speaker 3 (00:14:11):

Yeah, they've just been fast tracked.

Speaker 5 (00:14:13):

Yeah. Well, I mean some of them put in the work to get signed and

Speaker 3 (00:14:18):

I

Speaker 5 (00:14:18):

Just mean when they're making that transition from being an unsigned band, they could have been touring regionally and have a large following online and all that. But just I feel like when a band first gets that contract and gets a corporation behind them and gets the validation of being signed, especially when they're really, really young, it can do numbers for how they behave and how important they think their opinions are. But actually I think it's very wise of you to say that those types of people aren't always wrong. Sometimes I've noticed that the guy in the band who has the strongest artistic vision can be hated by the other guys for whatever reason. And

Speaker 1 (00:15:04):

Sometimes

Speaker 5 (00:15:06):

Majority rules is a bad idea because sometimes it's the one guy that's making the most trouble who's got the best musical idea. So it's important to be able to figure out which situation is which.

Speaker 3 (00:15:18):

Exactly. That's a really important part of being a producer to me, is to be able to assess the situation and know how to work with each person in the band separately to make sure that you get what you need out of the band. And it's not a majority rule situation. It's actually rarely a majority rule situation. And that's the other side of dealing with the guy that wants everything his way is dealing with the other four guys that want their equal say, you know what I mean? So you're dealing with this guy who knows and he's confident that all his ideas are right. But then you also have to balance out with these guys who are upset because honestly, the people you're talking about are not adults. A lot of these bands that are just getting signed, they're not, man. I mean when I was 22, I was not really an adult.

(00:16:09):

I was 22, I could drink, I could do whatever, but I was also freaking jealous and selfish and all those things that still carry over from being a kid. And so they haven't learned to work as a unit yet, and you have to balance the two sides and amplify it. And it's not a majority rules thing. Half the time the guy who knows everything demoed everything in his bedroom and that's what got them signed, found a bunch of musicians or he has guys that play, but they didn't even play on the demos and now all of a sudden they want to say, and that might not necessarily be the right move. So you got to know what moves to make. That's all.

Speaker 4 (00:16:45):

Yeah, I was going to say that there was a study I read or heard about, or I don't remember what the exact source is that I had heard that the brain isn't fully developed enough until you're around the age 25 ish to really understand fully to make decisions and weigh their consequences like a hundred percent and wrong. Thinking about the long-term consequences of if I do this then this. So kids kind of have that disconnect where they're just like, oh, I'm just going to do it. Fuck it. And that's definitely, I think a great point that you brought up Chris in the studio is being a producer puts you in a unique spot psychologically because it's like a game you have to be a shoulder to cry on as well as sometimes a badass, and you have to learn how to, I wouldn't say manipulate, but sometimes manipulate, but massage everybody into a team that's going to take the group of kids that you're working with and get a synergistic effect that's greater than the sum of each individual and make a record out of it. And that's just one of the fine arts that we can talk about all day, but you have to learn

Speaker 3 (00:17:47):

And you do have to manipulate and you're not manipulating people, but you do have to manipulate the situation to make sure that it works. You're right, you got to massage a little bit and you got to cater well. I think a lot of people compare it to babysitting or something or parenting. That's a somewhat condescending way, but it is true, but it's kind of a condescending term.

Speaker 2 (00:18:09):

Yeah, I've noticed, I'll be very careful not to say sort of in my mind, I always know, okay, I know exactly what I'm going to do to this record, but I'm not going to say it right away because I need to sort of figure out who's going to be the person that's against that and does that person really matter to the equation. Or the other side of it too is they're an underdog. Is there somebody in the band that does have really good ideas, but everyone shuts him down just because of where his rank is within the role

Speaker 3 (00:18:37):

He is the drummer or he is like the bass player or something or Yeah, or he's the new guy, or

Speaker 2 (00:18:40):

You got to figure out how to stand up for that person and figure out when that's appropriate. Exactly.

Speaker 5 (00:18:46):

I have definitely seen that happen a number of times where the most talented guy in the band, believe it or not, is the bass player or the drummer and bullshit. No, I have seen it plenty of times and they have trouble getting their ideas out because the guitar players are like, I'm the guitar player, I should be the one getting these ideas out. So yeah, walking that line is definitely interesting. So I guess Chris, how do you handle it when I guess you have to have somebody track stuff that isn't the guy who's accredited for tracking it. Like say you have a drummer that's a better guitar player than everybody else in the band. How do you go about approaching that so that you keep the piece?

Speaker 3 (00:19:32):

Really the most important thing with situations like that is honesty. There are some bands where the guitar player knows that the drummer is a better guitar player than him. Maybe the singer or the bass player wrote the songs. And so it makes more sense for that person to play guitar and it's just understood that way and it's not a problem. And then there's some bands with egos and stuff, but really the best thing and what you have to do is just be honest with people, whether it's taken as hurtful or not, it's never meant to be, but you got a guy who just can't play a part and there's someone else in the band who can do it regardless of what instrument it is, you just have to tell him You can't beat around the bush. You can't wait forever or put it off. And one of the easiest things to do is just have him play the part, play it back and just say, does this sound good to you? Do you feel good about how this is sounding because blah, blah, blah, and we know he can do it. Should we just let him try? Stuff like that. You don't have to be mean about it, but you do have to be upfront and you do have to be kind of blunt about it. Yeah, just be real.

Speaker 4 (00:20:39):

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:20:40):

Everyone has the same goal. Everyone's trying to make a good record, so that's just what you have to do.

Speaker 5 (00:20:46):

And I've noticed oftentimes in a situation where the guy who's the most talented isn't the guy who's supposed to be playing that instrument, that guy might not have the confidence to step up to the plate just because of the band dynamics. So I feel like sometimes you need to even encourage them to get out of their comfort zone and come track the part.

Speaker 3 (00:21:12):

Definitely.

Speaker 5 (00:21:13):

Yeah, I've just noticed that. I hear you with the honesty thing, but I feel like sometimes going back to reading the situation, I feel like sometimes I have to maybe pull the wool over their eyes and maybe do it myself or do it when they go out with the guy That's actually really good because there's just in some cases just they just won't understand. Even if you do tell them upfront. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:21:40):

No matter how good of a mediator or how much you understand about psychological tactics or whatever, sometimes there's no way around it.

Speaker 3 (00:21:51):

Yeah, definitely. And what you're saying Al and Joe is that's kind of outside the bubble of being honest to people. It is that I'm talking about. If you're talking about having someone else in the band play a part, then I feel like you really do have to be upfront with other people. Otherwise you're just setting this band up for disaster. If you're having band guys go behind other band guys' backs,

Speaker 5 (00:22:15):

Oh no, you're right. You're right.

Speaker 3 (00:22:16):

That's a little weird. And I think that's what I meant by the honesty thing, and I do try to be upfront about it, but if there's people that just aren't hearing it and I have to do something after the fact, then it's done and no one ever knows and it doesn't matter because it's them who get the credit and it's all fine record's, good. Doesn't matter.

Speaker 5 (00:22:35):

You're absolutely right with that. One of the things that you never want to be accused of is plotting band members against each other.

Speaker 3 (00:22:43):

Oh no.

Speaker 5 (00:22:44):

Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:22:46):

Absolutely not.

Speaker 5 (00:22:47):

It's important to realize that while one guy might be a lot more talented than the other guys, as soon as the record is over, they are going to have to live in a van or a bus together for the next 18 months pushing this. And if you set a chain in motion of events that is super negative and destroy their relationship and they break up as a band, it hurts you because the record won't get the push that it needs. And

Speaker 3 (00:23:14):

What was even the point of making the record in the first place?

Speaker 5 (00:23:16):

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (00:23:17):

Chris, you're building a new studio now, right?

Speaker 5 (00:23:19):

Yep.

Speaker 4 (00:23:20):

Why don't we shift gears and talk a little bit about that. I had just finished a build in January this year, and I did a little mixing suite and overdub, it's kind of like a vocal booth and a little lounge, and I feel like building out a studio or even a control room poses a bunch of challenges and design things and stuff like that that are quite foreign to a lot of people. When you sit down and start thinking about what makes a good room and how do I isolate it and what's the best way. So why don't you talk about that a little bit. I think it'd be really interesting for the listeners to see what kind of goes into doing a build quite the intimidating feat to do

Speaker 3 (00:23:57):

It is a pretty crazy thing to do, and I don't think you realize how intense it's going to be until you're done. It's pretty relentless. It never stops. You're always running into problems no matter how much you think things out, there's always something that's going to creep up and you're going to be like, how did I not think of that and this and that. I actually built a brand new building from the ground up, like dug a hole in the ground, poured a foundation, did the walls, did everything. And that was because I built on residential property. I have a pretty large chunk of property here in Portland, and I chose to do it this way because I wanted to own something. I've been paying rent for so long in places and seeing the rent go up and how much I was paying, it was kind of killing me. So I kind of opted to do something a little bit smaller that I could do the way I wanted and have it actually be a worthwhile investment. So I built a 1200 square foot building that's concrete block cement foundation. It's like 16 foot ceilings in the center sweet on scissor trusses, and it's pretty cool. And I actually had help from a guy that some of you guys I think know Andreas Magnusson.

Speaker 5 (00:25:18):

Oh yeah. Oh

Speaker 3 (00:25:18):

Yeah. He's been my fricking little fairy godmother father thing, the good devil on my shoulder, I guess just anytime I've had questions about stuff, he is built a bunch of studios and has a lot of knowledge. I have built one other studio and I had no clue what I was doing back then. It was like 12 years ago. So this is the first time I really got to build something with some knowledge and a budget to do things the way I wanted. So

Speaker 4 (00:25:46):

My first studio that I built was kind of the same situation. It was in my parents' basement and what I built, and I had absolutely no idea what I was doing until I tried to reamp the first guitar and realized it was shaking the whole damn house or a drum set. And then I was like, oh my God. So when I get in the next place, I'm going to actually know what I'm doing. And it's amazing how just not understanding simple things like an MSM wall or having two sets of studs with an air gap and knowing how to do that. You can make a simple mistake just by not understanding the basic fundamentals of, what's the word I'm looking for? Noise transfer and acoustic. I hate to use soundproofing because that's the wrong word for it, and I can't think of the word, but you know what I'm talking about. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:26:27):

But yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about, building a room that is as soundproof as possible, but you're actually building it as a soundproof structure and not soundproofing a room

Speaker 4 (00:26:39):

Rooms within rooms.

Speaker 3 (00:26:41):

Yeah. That's why I wanted to start from the ground up is I looked into getting a building and most places around here have wood floors like Trus floors, so that's impossible.

Speaker 4 (00:26:54):

Well, I've got that situation right now.

Speaker 3 (00:26:56):

Did you overcome that with a floating floor? No.

Speaker 4 (00:26:58):

I'm on the second floor of a building, and actually I made two mistakes when I built this place. So I'm picture, maybe it's like 1200 square feet or something upstairs, and I have 600 and the guy across the hall has 600. And when he built his studio, he didn't have any sort of, he's just a put foam in the corner of the room and it'll stop the sound kind of guy, and I'll just put a bunch of it

Speaker 3 (00:27:19):

And

Speaker 4 (00:27:19):

I'm just like, holy shit, you got to go read John Sayers, dude.

(00:27:23):

So we're on the same deck, and I was kind of freaking out because I'm like, okay, I can't afford to build a floating floor. I spent I think maybe 25 or so a thousand dollars on my half of the building just doing 600 square feet correctly. And I didn't want spend another five to 10 just to put a floating floor. And so what I did, which was a mistake, but it did a really, really good job. If he's recording drums across the hall, they're amping guitars super loud. I can barely tell if I hit play on my speakers. I don't know anything or even notice anything unless the drummer's super brutal, hard hitting dude. But basically I put down a layer of, oh, what the hell is it called? Ho homicide, whatever.

Speaker 3 (00:28:05):

Yeah, the paperboard. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:28:06):

Yeah. It was great for floor impact on the wood floors, and it was awesome when somebody's running or walking down the hall for stopping that. But it's like the guy said to me after I had already paid to do it and laid it down that it was like a sponge and I should have done a layer of green glue and added more plywood on the floor, which would've stopped some of the resonance flanking noise that had come through from the other room.

Speaker 3 (00:28:28):

That

Speaker 4 (00:28:28):

Being said, I made that mistake and it actually wasn't that bad. I can barely hear what's going on and I've got really good isolation. So I kind of got lucky situation.

Speaker 2 (00:28:37):

So Chris, how are you managing? You're working on issues and stuff right now, right? Yeah, we just finished up instruments, so it's like how are you managing that plus building a studio?

Speaker 3 (00:28:48):

It was ridiculous. We moved in day one of issues. They had a film crew here and all the band, and we just moved because my studio was in my house for a while, which is a long story. This whole thing, the whole new studio was supposed to be built a year and a half ago, and I just ran into all kinds of obstacles. So I basically was working out of half of my house for a couple years and day one, we just picked up everything and moved it in and spent all day moving into the studio, which wasn't actually done.

Speaker 4 (00:29:21):

Wow.

Speaker 3 (00:29:21):

So I got it wired the week before I got it wired. I got the doors in, we put all the doors in the night before they got here. The is still unfinished, concrete and stuff, but we did make that record in the studio, which is really cool. And now I have a lot of work ahead of me to finish things up. We didn't even have lights, we just had lamps and stuff for

Speaker 5 (00:29:42):

Most of the record you to pull everything out in order to finish the floor and then set it all back up. Fun

Speaker 3 (00:29:48):

Sort of. Actually, all I really have to do is move things to one half of the room and then back to the other. It's not going to be as crazy as it sounds, but it was worth it to make that record in here. I spent a lot of time making sure that this live room sounds really, really cool, just in its actual shape and form. Part of my motivation was to have it ready for that record and we got set behind. If you're building a studio, do not set goals, but don't expect to be done anywhere near the timeframe that you think you're going to be done.

Speaker 4 (00:30:19):

Isn't that the truth?

Speaker 3 (00:30:20):

Yeah. Just every obstacle that could be will show itself.

Speaker 5 (00:30:24):

So when you're figuring out the shape of a room, like a live room from scratch, how do you go about making sure that it will sound good? Actually,

Speaker 3 (00:30:34):

For me, there was two major things that I was considering. Well, there's three and one isn't totally complete, and that would be the actual physical surfaces. But the two main things that you can't affect once it's done are dimensions and the overall size and shape. And part of the factor that went into why I built a room this exact shape and size was just different studios that I've worked in over the years and having a mental bank of what rooms that I liked drums and guitars in and what size and shape of rooms that I really didn't like drums and guitars in. And so I had that in my mind. And then when deciding what I could build within the entire structure, you know what I mean? Obviously limited by the size of the whole structure. I played with the numbers. I think it's like Bob Gold's room calculator, correct me. I'm probably totally wrong if you Google room calculator.

Speaker 4 (00:31:32):

Yeah. There's certain ratios,

Speaker 3 (00:31:33):

There's a mode calculator, and I basically just messed with all the dimensions until I had something that had the least modes and the flattest eq.

Speaker 5 (00:31:42):

And did you say that you have an angled ceiling in the live room?

Speaker 3 (00:31:46):

I do. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (00:31:47):

You said it's 16 feet at the top?

Speaker 3 (00:31:49):

Yep.

Speaker 5 (00:31:50):

Every drum room I've worked in that's gotten a great sound has had an angled ceiling.

Speaker 3 (00:31:55):

Yeah, totally. You don't want that straight flutter from sealing the floor. You want a hard surface on the floor that's part of a cool sounding drum room, but you don't want that direct flutter. I also have one wall that's offset by a 12 degrees.

Speaker 5 (00:32:09):

Is there any special material that you're putting on that wall that you've offset or

Speaker 3 (00:32:14):

Not that wall in particular, but right now I just have some simple real traps up, which is kind of a bandaid for the time being. But I'm building a slat diffuser on probably about 30% of the room. And then the wall that's directly across from the wall that's going to have the slat diffuser is going to be stone and the stone's going to be offset. So it'll work like a diffuser, but it'll also be like a cool reflective surface

Speaker 4 (00:32:41):

Stone is really cool. That first room, we did drum forge and had a back stone wall, and I really enjoyed recording the kit by it and listening to the reflections off it. I don't know, stone has a certain vibe to it with the diffusion characteristics,

Speaker 3 (00:32:57):

It's really cool because it kind of splays sound if you do it right, if it's not just like flat tile, if it's actually a rough surface. Yeah, staggered surface. It just splatters the sound. I don't know how else to explain it. Just splatters the sound. It sounds really cool. Definitely. And

Speaker 5 (00:33:12):

Are you keeping the floor concrete or it wood or?

Speaker 3 (00:33:15):

I'm for now. I did a lot of research and asked a lot of guys who build studios for a living, and most of the people I talked to said that there's really not a huge difference between a sealed hardwood floor that's hard enough to protect from things scratching it up and stuff a ton to concrete. They're really similar densities, not exactly the same. But I think from what I've heard, the wood versus concrete thing, there's kind of a myth built around it. They're not exactly the same, but it's not this crazy. I think a lot of people equate concrete floors to their basement or their garage, and this is not your basement or your garage. It's a pretty rad sounding room.

Speaker 5 (00:33:56):

My drum room that everyone seems to has concrete floors, they don't realize that because stamped concrete and it looks like hardwood, but it's actually concrete.

Speaker 3 (00:34:03):

Oh, cool.

Speaker 5 (00:34:04):

Yeah. Awesome. It sounds great in there. I did put down some plywood sheets where you set the drums up and that actually sounded kind of cool, but it is a pretty big room and the rest of it is the stamp concrete and yeah, it sounds great. I think that the reason that people associate the concrete floors with a shitty basement sound has to do with everything else that's on those floors. Yeah, it's not the actual concrete floor that's the problem.

Speaker 4 (00:34:34):

Well, the absorption characteristics of concrete and wood by the numbers are almost identical. I've seen a few charts comparing them and seen a lot of people at the CS forum make the same argument that Chris is making that it doesn't matter. I mean, I've been in your drum room, Al, and I'll vouch that. It sounds fricking amazing. It's a great sounding room. So you got stamp concrete then there it is. Proof is in the pudding.

Speaker 3 (00:34:58):

And I think if you really want to think about that wood sound, it's more actually in the walls and stuff and I'm going to have a lot of wood on the walls and that's part of building a s slap diffuser. You have those softer woods that have a different absorption than a hardwood floor. And that's another misconception that's kind of the opposite of the basement thing is you go into this studio, it's got hardwoods, you see the hardwoods, they're beautiful, and you're like, oh man, it's those hardwood floors that sound so cool. But it's actually the finely tuned room and the softer woods that are decorative, but also there for room EQ purposes. And it's all that stuff. It's not the hardwood floors that are making everything sound awesome, but they

Speaker 4 (00:35:38):

Look nice. They look so nice.

Speaker 3 (00:35:41):

They do look nice. I know, I know. I mean, I'm not saying I'll never do it, but right now it's not really in the cards.

Speaker 4 (00:35:47):

Just get the cheap laminate stuff. It looks good. And if you buy a decent quality, it's pretty durable. That's what I did in here and I'm really, really pleased that I did it because it looks awesome and it wasn't super expensive.

Speaker 3 (00:36:00):

Yeah, I did that in my last room in the last studio that I was renting. I might do that in here, but I kind of have it in my mind to do a lot of wood on the walls just for aesthetics to do a lot of wood on the walls. And then we're going to grind the concrete down enough that you see the pebbles a little bit and then seal that. Oh,

Speaker 4 (00:36:17):

Cool.

Speaker 3 (00:36:17):

That's just kind of what I have aesthetically in my head.

Speaker 4 (00:36:21):

Well, that sounds like it's going to be a beautiful room

Speaker 3 (00:36:24):

As long as it's not carpet's going to cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 5 (00:36:30):

And what about with the control room? How big is it and how did you come to those dimensions? What were you looking for when you built it? What's the big idea?

Speaker 3 (00:36:43):

The big idea with the control room is that I wanted to build a room that just like the live room that was as done from the get go as possible. So I have walls that are splayed 12 degrees, both sidewalls. I have the front half of the ceiling is angled down at I believe 20 degrees. Can't remember the exact number we went with. We had to change it a little bit at the last minute because of an air duct that we kind of messed up on placing super stupid complicated situation. It happens anyways, so I've got basically a room that looks like a trapezoid and goes towards the back. So the main thing that I have to do in the room is just build a huge back wall diffuser because the room itself pushes all the frequencies to the back, which was important to me to build a room that I didn't have to bandaid something into, try to make it sound good. And also we dropped the ceilings in that room. That posed sort of a problem, but we had to do that because of the room shape and the modes. So the ceiling in that room is actually 12 feet where it's flat,

Speaker 5 (00:37:46):

So lemme get something straight. So you think that panels are band-aids?

Speaker 3 (00:37:51):

No. Well,

Speaker 5 (00:37:52):

Maybe.

Speaker 3 (00:37:53):

I mean, if you're trying to build a perfect room, yeah, it's not a bad thing if you can't build from scratch,

Speaker 5 (00:37:58):

Fair enough. But you're going from the point of view that if you build it right, you don't need any of that shit.

Speaker 3 (00:38:04):

You need less.

Speaker 5 (00:38:05):

Fair enough.

Speaker 3 (00:38:06):

Yeah, I would say the same. You need less. You're working from a different starting point basically, and there's no reason not to. It wasn't any more expensive to build the room in a shape that sounds better from the start because the shape of the room, the size of the room, the size of the ceiling and the angle of the walls all play into the frequency curve of the room. So it's easier to, I guess, bandaid that to how you want it to be perfect or to make the exact room you want as opposed to building a square room or you end up with a cube. There's all kinds of crazy modes that you'll have to work with to eliminate as to where if I build a room that has almost no modes and pushes all the frequencies to the back, I'm working with a much easier room to treat, I guess.

Speaker 5 (00:38:52):

I mean it's the same thing as when trying to mix a project that was tracked. Well, your mix is going to end up a ton better. So let's just take a scenario where, say you couldn't build your own studio and you had to rent a room at some other place or whatever the situation is. Say you were just starting up and in a bedroom or whatever, what steps would you take to I guess not quite band-aid, but actually perform as much surgery as possible on the room so that it didn't make you insane?

Speaker 3 (00:39:26):

That's a tough question. One thing I would say is avoid expensive soundproofing or sound fixing products and get online and figure out how to do DIY stuff. You can build a diffuser for like 60 bucks that goes on your back wall, that will spread all the frequencies out so they don't bounce back at you. You can build acoustic panels for a 10th of what it costs to buy them prebuilt. So that would be my advice is get online.

Speaker 5 (00:39:58):

I agree with you because not just is it cheaper, but if you go with the super expensive route on a really shitty room and you're kind of a beginner at all this, you're going to be taking a salesman's advice on what to get for your room. They'll run it through their company's room calculator and tell you, okay, you need this here, this here, that there, and then you just buy it. And that's not necessarily going to solve your room. So if you go the DIY route, you're going to have a lot more budget to work with. That's important. Taking into consideration that you might put stuff up and it won't solve the problem. It might not be the right approach.

Speaker 3 (00:40:40):

And you know what Elsa's I think is really important about the DIY route, and I've been in a bunch of different studios and different situations. I've made records in cabins and just done the studio thing all over the place. And the coolest thing about the DIY route and knowing how panels are built and all that stuff is you could tip a couch on its side and put it in the corner when you're making a record in a cabin that has this weird base frequency. You kind of get this understanding of how to create something out of nothing as far as making a room work. And also most of that DIY stuff, when you build it, you can take it apart. So say you're just starting in your bedroom at your parents' house, are you going to be in your bedroom at your parents' house in a year or in two years?

(00:41:27):

You got to think about that and you don't know where you're going to be. So it's cool to have panels that you can take apart or travel with and we'll work in the next room as opposed to, like you're saying, you go to Guitar Center and they type in what you need for a certain size room and you get the RLX Grand Master package or some crap and you realize that one, it's not doing much at all for anything other than high frequencies and two, it's not going to work in your next room, so you got a bunch of useless crap.

Speaker 5 (00:41:57):

Well, even with real Traps, just because it says that it does something on the website doesn't mean that that's exactly what you need. So you might need more, you might need something else. You might need diffusion instead of high frequency absorption somewhere, stuff like that. You're going to have to be playing around a lot with it. So it's best to be very conservative financially. So obviously you like to think things through very much, and I want to take this opportunity to segue into something else we wanted to ask you about. You do really modern sounding records, but you are known for being a very analog oriented guy and for just having a sick hybrid setup, I guess, how do you, I guess, maximize your efficiency and keep a fast turnaround time and keep things sounding modern when relying on actual physical gear? How do you make it work for you? You definitely do make it work for you.

Speaker 3 (00:42:58):

Well, there's a few key things there. Running well, understanding the gear is really important. Something that can really waste time is if you get in that mode of trying to find the perfect piece all the time and every record, you're using something different because buying and selling stuff constantly, you got to know the gear. You got to know exactly what you're going to use it for. I mean, it is just like plugins really. It's not that different. Most of my gear runs in real time through a hardware insert, and most of it I've actually, in the last few years, because of exactly what you're saying, I've been, I look at gear in two ways. Either it's stepped or deined or I'm never going to touch the knobs. So recall has to be easy. It could be the best piece of gear in the world, and if it doesn't fit in one of those two categories, I'm probably not going to buy it. I'm probably not going to use it because I do have to either be able to recall it really fast and really accurately, or it just has to be able to sit there and do its thing and I feed volume into it. If it's a compressor or something in different ways that are automated on the computer, I'm with you on that. It's not like I'm turning knobs all day and every song I'm changing stuff. It's all pretty dialed.

Speaker 5 (00:44:10):

I feel like that's the only way to really fulfill the time demands that are required these days.

Speaker 2 (00:44:17):

I heard Chris Lord Algae. I mean, first of all, he has his room set up so that if you need to change the compressor, you just use a different one. He has multiple compressors, he has 'em all set certain way and they never change. So if he needs more, like whatever, I want this knob turned a little bit more this way, then instead of turning the knob, he actually just plugs in a different one.

Speaker 3 (00:44:38):

Yeah, 11 76, 9 or 10 or something.

Speaker 2 (00:44:41):

Exactly. And then I've also heard that he has three identical rooms so that he can be working on three songs or three projects at the same time. So recalls aren't a problem.

Speaker 3 (00:44:53):

Life

Speaker 4 (00:44:54):

Goals, man,

Speaker 3 (00:44:56):

That's incredible.

Speaker 4 (00:44:58):

A big thing with analog gear is each piece kind of has a sweet spot and gain structuring where it sounds the best and functions the best for whatever instrument that you like. Its curve on. And once you kind of find that range, it's usually you want to optimize that piece of gear, and there's almost no reason to take it out of that sound because it does it so well that it's just an issue like Chris said, of just driving the right amount of gain into it and getting that initial gain structuring down and figuring out where the tone of it is the best in the response and all that stuff. That's half the battle with gear and that's it. It's like a preset then at that point. And it does one thing and it does it amazingly and it has a certain sound. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:45:39):

That's exactly how I treat it. I have some gear that's like the designated knob twisting gear effects and stuff like that that I get more hands on with, but that stuff I just print. I've got a chaos pad. It's not like I'm going to try to recall a chaos pad part or something. I just record it back in and then's done. And you have that part and it's good to commit sometimes too. Then you can move on and get things done.

Speaker 5 (00:46:06):

Are you running Pro Tools or a different DAW?

Speaker 3 (00:46:09):

Yeah. Pro Tools 10.

Speaker 5 (00:46:10):

Do you have a template mix or template routing session or something where it's all just laid out with your iOS and you load it and you're good?

Speaker 3 (00:46:19):

Yeah. Yeah. Sort of. I have template sessions that are basically just the buses. I don't necessarily usually template the separate tracks, but I have my drum bus set up and all my vocal sends set up and all that stuff that's always just there that I can import easily.

Speaker 5 (00:46:41):

Yeah, I could imagine that that would take, well, I know that it would take forever if you had to redo it every single time.

Speaker 4 (00:46:48):

Yeah. Well, why don't we jump into, before we hop into some questions from our listeners, why don't we do a rapid fire segment. So I'm going to fire off some like a word, like say vocals and then you can tell me what your go-to is gear wise. Yeah, sure. What change does Chris like to use? What are your favorite pieces? It could be in terms of tracking or mixing, whatever you prefer.

Speaker 5 (00:47:09):

Yeah, whatever comes to mind.

Speaker 4 (00:47:10):

So I'm ready when you are.

Speaker 3 (00:47:12):

I think I'm ready. Slightly afraid. Start with vocals. Oh, vocals. For years, it's been a tele funken into some kind of awesome preamp, into a stressor, into an eq, into my inward connections rack, and then a DS or sometimes another EQ

Speaker 4 (00:47:32):

Kick

Speaker 3 (00:47:32):

Drum. Oh man, there's no answer. I have 10 different mics. I use dw. There's my answer. Dw

Speaker 5 (00:47:42):

Dw and a good drummer, right?

Speaker 3 (00:47:43):

Good drums, good drummer.

Speaker 5 (00:47:45):

Okay. Snare,

Speaker 3 (00:47:47):

Toma, Tama, either Bell Brass or my Monarch going into an SM 57 or a Sennheiser MD 4 41 into some kind of awesome pre-amp in the mix. I'm doing an ELO of EQ into a distress or an 1176. And then probably more eq,

Speaker 4 (00:48:06):

Bass guitar.

Speaker 3 (00:48:07):

Oh, good. Sounding bass into Lately it's been a sadowsky preamp into my custom built sour sound. One 50 head or an amp. Peg S VT two from 1983 into an eight 10, and I run a di, but I usually just use the amp tracks and I compress it with a stressor. Drum bus. Drum bus stressor.

(00:48:32):

Hell yeah. Yeah. Stressor, distress. It's always, so I have a dry bus, a stressor bus, and a leveler bus and a leveler is kind of like Devil lock for you guys who have the sound toys, plugins. And sometimes I actually, I do a Devil lock bus and a level or bus, and when I'm already crushing with the level, or I turn on the Devil Lock bus for choruses or the bridge where it's supposed to explode. So I'm just crushing the shit out of it all the time. Sick. And that's with 14 DB of compression at 20 to one on the distress as well. Jesus.

Speaker 4 (00:49:08):

Yeah. Distress. You can, I mean, that's where they sound best though. You can beat the shit out of them.

Speaker 5 (00:49:12):

All right, well here's one. What about bottom Toms?

Speaker 3 (00:49:15):

Never.

Speaker 4 (00:49:16):

Okay.

Speaker 5 (00:49:16):

Never bottom.

Speaker 3 (00:49:17):

Toms Never. When Danny Carey comes in here, maybe I'll get into that.

Speaker 5 (00:49:23):

Okay. Overheads

Speaker 3 (00:49:23):

Cool. Then KM 80 fours or KM 180 fours.

Speaker 5 (00:49:28):

Okay. Guitar Miking, heavy distortion rhythms.

Speaker 3 (00:49:31):

SM 57, SM 57, sometimes a second. SM 57. If it's not super chuggy, I'll use a Royer 1 21. Pretty much. No EQ or anything else after that? Usually

Speaker 5 (00:49:43):

Acoustic guitar.

Speaker 3 (00:49:44):

Oh, either like a nice LDC tube mic or a KM 84 and a distress distress six to one Best acoustic guitar compressor

Speaker 5 (00:49:55):

Orchestra in a metal song.

Speaker 3 (00:49:59):

A real orchestra. Of

Speaker 5 (00:50:01):

Course not.

Speaker 3 (00:50:03):

Oh, okay.

Speaker 5 (00:50:03):

No, I'm kidding. Whatever comes to mind.

Speaker 3 (00:50:05):

Yeah. Well, whatever the EQ and reason is, no. Yeah. Small condensers spot mics. Actually, that's interesting. I'll be quick because it's quickfire. If you're trying to have strings cut over really big guitars and stuff, mic closer and do room mics. If I'm doing something that's supposed to sound nice without the music or it's acoustic, my close mics are probably going to be like three or four feet further back than they would if I was recording metal. Also high that or low past that buzz, because strings sound terrible when you can hear that crap.

Speaker 4 (00:50:43):

Alright, the last and most important one, how do you like your steak cook? I don't eat beef.

Speaker 5 (00:50:48):

Whoa. Okay. There it is. He doesn't, that's my answer too.

Speaker 4 (00:50:53):

Mind

Speaker 2 (00:50:53):

Blowing.

Speaker 4 (00:50:53):

Yeah. At least it's not well done. Well,

Speaker 2 (00:50:57):

Yeah. No, you get kicked out of here if it's well done. That's

Speaker 3 (00:51:01):

Right. No, I like my lamb burger medium. I have little blood's. All right,

Speaker 2 (00:51:08):

That's good.

Speaker 3 (00:51:09):

Alright. It's better than well done. That's real, man. I don't want a crispy piece of toast. You don't want a crispy crumpet. Oh, sick burn. You'll get a pale of water to put out that fire.

Speaker 4 (00:51:22):

We've been setting that one up the whole episode.

Speaker 5 (00:51:26):

Alright, so we've got some questions from the crowd we want to ask you. And one, I was telling you about this, there's one guy that's actually been on the podcast and is one of my production and mixing heroes asked 15 questions for you.

Speaker 3 (00:51:44):

Okay.

Speaker 5 (00:51:45):

So Dan Eff, right? So

Speaker 3 (00:51:49):

Yeah, I like Dan.

Speaker 5 (00:51:50):

Yeah. He's got a ton of questions for you, so

Speaker 3 (00:51:54):

I'm kind of scared.

Speaker 5 (00:51:55):

No, they're really good questions, actually. Oh,

Speaker 3 (00:51:57):

Okay. Yeah,

Speaker 5 (00:51:57):

So you already answered one of them, so I'll go right onto the next one. Dan Corn is asking is what's one piece of gear that you think every engineer should own?

Speaker 3 (00:52:07):

Distress, really good monitors distress, but also monitors really good monitors if we're talking about outboard gear distress. Absolutely. I

Speaker 2 (00:52:15):

Like the monitors answer. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:52:17):

Because your outboard gear is no good if you can't hear what it's doing exactly.

Speaker 5 (00:52:21):

Well, Jeff Sakic is asking, I would like to know what his monitor choice would be if he didn't have the Barefoots.

Speaker 3 (00:52:27):

I don't have the Barefoots anymore, so that's a perfect question. I sold them about six months ago when I had the opportunity to do a couple mixes on a pair of Amon two eighteens with the Amon AMP 500 amp, and they're amazing. They're the flattest. Easiest to mix on. Speaker. I'm not going to get into terms for sound because it's ridiculous, but I did two mixes and my first mix was really well received, or the first mix for each product project was so well received that I had never quite nailed it that quick, or at least that I was that happy with it translating and being exactly what I wanted. So I sold the Barefoots and I kept the Amon. So

Speaker 2 (00:53:11):

Would you say stay away from Barefoots?

Speaker 3 (00:53:13):

No, definitely not. I made great records with them for seven or eight years and honestly, so one of the things is I had Gen one micro main 20 sevens and before the Amons, they were the best speaker I'd ever used and I've used a ton of different speakers and I kept trying other stuff to see if there was something better and the Barefoots were at that point, I couldn't find anything else I liked better until I went to Barefoot, who's in Portland, and they showed me the mini Maine 12, which is really one of the most ridiculous speakers I've ever heard. And after I heard that, it was really hard to get that sound out of my head and I will probably buy a pair of those some days, but the Amon were kind of a bridge between what I was using in the past and this crazy sound I heard that made me feel like everything else sounded like shit, which was honestly pretty frustrating. I blame Barefoot for me selling my barefoot. They're great people though. Barefoot are amazing people for

Speaker 5 (00:54:10):

Sure. Yoyo Barefoot, you're good people but me. I'm going to ask you what I think that guy meant in his question. I think what he meant was if you had to buy budget monitors, what would you choose?

Speaker 3 (00:54:20):

Oh,

Speaker 5 (00:54:22):

I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.

Speaker 3 (00:54:23):

Yeah, that's probably a better question. Well, depends on what the budget is because there's all kinds of different levels and it depends on the kind of stuff you're mixing. Give me a narrow it down.

Speaker 5 (00:54:34):

Okay. Let's say you've got 1500 max to spend on two monitors and you do heavy stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:54:41):

I would say buy some atoms that are in your price range. I'm not a huge fan of the upper tier Atoms stuff, but for that budget, I don't think I've heard anything that's quite as decent.

Speaker 2 (00:54:52):

I think you said they're fun to listen to, which I'd like. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:54:55):

Exactly. I think that's one thing you really have to judge when you're in speakers of that price range. You're probably not going to find something that's super true, but you got to buy something that's not going to fatigue your ears and is really enjoyable to listen to.

Speaker 5 (00:55:09):

Dan Cornif again is asking, is it difficult working where you live and how do you separate family life and business life?

Speaker 3 (00:55:16):

Well, it was really difficult when the studio was inside my house, but now I'm probably about a hundred feet away from the house, which is still very close. I feel like it's improved my family life. It's far enough away, the doors shut, it's soundproof, it's its own world when the doors are shut and I feel like it's honestly improved my home life because I don't have to drive all the way back to the studio every time someone needs some little thing that's huge. If I need to do something at my house, if I need to freaking do laundry, I can take two minutes to put the laundry in the dryer and stuff, and it's been a lot easier, honestly. It's been a lot, lot easier.

Speaker 5 (00:55:55):

All right, and I guess Dan Cornif again is asking, what's your Desert Island plugin?

Speaker 2 (00:56:04):

I bet it's not a mixing plugin.

Speaker 3 (00:56:06):

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. What kind of question is that? I don't know one plugin could do. I mean, I guess if I'm on a desert island and I have to mix a bunch of records, I mean maybe VMR, is that cheating? Because there's like five plugins in one? No.

Speaker 5 (00:56:20):

Hey, that's not cheating. That's not cheating. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:56:22):

That's what I would say. I wish if Sound Toys had version five out with its frigging all in one plugin thing. I might say Sound toys, but

Speaker 2 (00:56:30):

Speaking of that, one of our lucky subscribers will win a free copy of Sound Toys version four native bundle, and you'll also get the upgrade to Sound Toys five native bundle for free. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:56:43):

That's rad.

Speaker 5 (00:56:44):

That's

Speaker 3 (00:56:44):

Awesome. Because they make amazing plugins.

Speaker 5 (00:56:46):

Yeah, they're great. Yeah, that's this month's giveaway, so. Alright, Dan Cornif again is asking, what grounding scheme do you run at the studio?

Speaker 3 (00:56:59):

The one the electrician put in.

Speaker 4 (00:57:03):

Okay. Well you can't punt on that. He builds his own gear. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:57:07):

Yeah. Alright,

Speaker 5 (00:57:08):

Dan Cornif again. What's your method of data backup?

Speaker 3 (00:57:13):

I'm a drag and drop guy. I have two hard drives that I drag and drop stuff too at the end of the night, and then I let two go. I have two dragon drops and then I clear the third one, if that makes sense. I don't know how to explain it. I don't have anything fancy. I don't use time machine or anything like that, and I've never really had an issue with files, but obviously that stuff catches up with everyone at some point.

Speaker 5 (00:57:37):

Yeah. My catch up point was lightning.

Speaker 3 (00:57:39):

Knock

Speaker 2 (00:57:40):

On wood, please. Freaking

Speaker 5 (00:57:41):

Hell yeah. Mine was lightning and from that point on, I started doing backups that were not connected physically to my computer. Crack

Speaker 2 (00:57:50):

Cloud.

Speaker 5 (00:57:51):

Yeah, it was a horrible, horrible event.

Speaker 2 (00:57:53):

I got really annoyed with that. I know some of the people that listen to this, use that, what is it called, the one you recommend? Crash Plan. Crash Plan. I started Crash Plan. I was really excited about it, and then I went to actually go through the motion of actually backing something up and it doesn't support network hard drives, so can't use crash plan.

Speaker 4 (00:58:16):

Well, why don't you get on normal human computers that aren't like

Speaker 2 (00:58:22):

I'm literally physically out of space. I have to use a network hard drive because my computer can't hold any more objects inside of it.

Speaker 5 (00:58:32):

It will literally burst at the seams. Yeah. So next question, Dan. Corny again asking Strangest miking technique you've ever used.

Speaker 3 (00:58:44):

Done some weird stuff. I did a record where we did a whole section of vocals through an acoustic guitar pickup, which was like a pizo pickup, which actually turned out incredibly awesome. I don't know, I feel like I've done some weird stuff over the years.

Speaker 5 (00:59:03):

That's a pretty good one.

Speaker 3 (00:59:04):

Yeah, IRO microphone's a cool thing to do if you're ever looking for that effect. Strangest micing technique for a guitar man. I don't know if this is strange or not, but I find myself putting an SM 57 in the middle of the room pointed at the ceiling when I want a rad room sound, but I don't know, super weird.

Speaker 5 (00:59:27):

I've done that actually. I have done that in my drum room. Tracking drums maybe 15 feet away from the drum set

Speaker 3 (00:59:34):

In

Speaker 5 (00:59:34):

Just a random spot has worked great. I guess another one on that topic is at the very back corner of my room, put a microphone SM 57 facing into a symbol that was on its side. It was on a mic stand. The mic stand went through the hole and the symbol and the symbol was basically a saucer picking up the drum set from across the room. And then

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):

Did that sound cool?

Speaker 5 (01:00:03):

Yeah, actually, surprisingly it did.

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):

Yeah. But what preempt did you use and why?

Speaker 5 (01:00:07):

API. Alright, good choice. Here's another one from Dan Corn. F. How many hours do you typically work in a day?

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):

30. All of 40,

Speaker 5 (01:00:18):

30 or 40 hours a

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):

Day? Yeah, it varies. It's always at least eight and usually stops at 16. I try not to go past that and I try really hard to only work six days a week. I've actually just recently hired an engineer, so I'm hoping to bring this down a little bit, but I work a lot

Speaker 5 (01:00:42):

Clearly. All right. Dan Cornif, again, drummer, pet peeves.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):

Guys who are worse than me. I don't know. I like that answer. Those good? Yeah. I got a lot of little drummer pet peeves guys who try to be flashy, but completely lack fundamentals, like being able to center their hits and be consistent with velocities. Guys who don't tighten their symbols enough and just let 'em wash around and flip flop everywhere. That's probably the most annoying thing for me.

Speaker 5 (01:01:15):

That one bugs the shit out of me too. I

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):

Just got angry listening to that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):

I have two packs of felts sitting around just to stack people when they try to pull that crap on me.

Speaker 5 (01:01:24):

Yeah, same here. Okay, here's another one from Dan Cornif. Favorite songs to reference when mixing.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):

Actually, one of my number one references is Nothing Wrong by Jimmy Eat World. That mix is completely different than every other song on futures, and there's something about it that if I reference it, my mixes turn out. Awesome. And I've been referencing that since it came out, and that's still one of the only songs I reference, honestly. I know that's weird. It doesn't matter what type of music, it just gives me a focal point and for some reason that works.

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):

So you only reference to one song

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):

Sort of.

Speaker 5 (01:02:01):

Okay. And you,

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):

I mean, I referenced stuff within the genre as well, but for some reason that song is my go-to, to reset my brain to know where I'm at. It's my North Star.

Speaker 5 (01:02:15):

You're not the only guy I know who does that. Actually. I know a few guys who will reference one song throughout the years. They've referenced that one song just because they know it. So that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):

Yeah, I know everything. It's the North Star. I know everything that where I'm going from it, so it all just works. Finn has a question. Oh, Ben asks, how can I tell Chris and Craig from Rise Apart? I think Craig is 0.5 inches taller than me. He's much more physically fit, and I think those are the only two ways aside from that we're identical.

Speaker 5 (01:02:57):

And last question, and this is from Dan Cornif again, and what's the most ridiculous request from a band?

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):

Oh, geez, man. See, I try to block stuff like that out of my head, so I don't hate my job, man. I've definitely had some ridiculous requests trying to access the old memory vaults here. Damn. I don't know if I have a good answer for this. I think I'm way too good at blocking out bad memories.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):

I'll cover one in just because it's funny. The most ridiculous thing a band ever said in the studio to me is I had a local band in within the first two years of me recording and the kid gets out of the vocal booth, I'm mixing, I stop it, he turns to his buddy and goes, dude, now that we have a good recording, we can be dicks to people. This is thick. What

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):

The

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):

Fuck? That's amazing. I just turned around and I'm like, wait, that's incredible. Are you serious about it? Obviously they didn't get very far, but wow. So there you go.

Speaker 5 (01:04:03):

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, that's a great attitude step. Definitely win.

Speaker 4 (01:04:10):

You got to leave it on a

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):

Positive note.

Speaker 5 (01:04:11):

Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):

I was thinking more along the lines of can we take a break from vocals so you could go pick up my girlfriend from the airport? That's what I was thinking. I've actually gotten a couple of those. That was great.

Speaker 5 (01:04:28):

As a matter of fact, I've gotten in that one as well.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):

Actually, I had one a long time ago when my studio was at my parents' house and bands would come from out of town and they would have to rent a hotel room and they'd all stay in the same hotel room. One time I had a drummer who claimed that he couldn't drum unless he slept in a room alone and asked if he could sleep at my parents' house if they had a guest room, and that he would need to sleep in that guest room or he wasn't going to be able to play the next day, and that was God. That's actually totally one of the most ridiculous requests I've ever had.

Speaker 5 (01:05:11):

Yeah, it is ridiculous that

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):

Redefines imposing.

Speaker 5 (01:05:13):

How did you deal with that?

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):

I said no.

Speaker 5 (01:05:16):

Okay. Did he play drums the next day?

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):

Honestly, not very well, but there was a lot of drugs and alcohol involved in that guy's situation too, so I have a feeling it wasn't sleeping alone in a room, and I think that he definitely would've been doing his lonely drugs, whether he was alone or not.

Speaker 5 (01:05:41):

Do you think that he would've played better if he had slept in that room?

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):

No, absolutely not. No, I don't think it would've changed. That's

Speaker 5 (01:05:51):

One of the craziest things I've ever heard, really. I've had some pretty crazy experiences with bands too, but I've already talked about them on the podcast. But definitely having to become people's show fair thing is among my top pet peeves for bands. I actually was asked to do it so much that it became, one of the things that I always brought up when negotiating with a band is they're going to have their own transportation.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):

It's like one of your stipulations.

Speaker 5 (01:06:20):

Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):

It's good. It's good. I don't get that that much anymore, but yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:06:26):

Well, you got to realize that since the place in Florida is in my house and they're staying in my house the whole time, like five, six weeks or something.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):

That's rough.

Speaker 5 (01:06:38):

Yeah. If they don't have transportation,

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):

Then you don't have a life.

Speaker 5 (01:06:41):

Exactly. Because Joel and Joey have been to where that house is. There's nothing near it, so they could walk a few miles in the summer in Florida, but that doesn't usually pan out very well. So yeah, I definitely make them have transportation. So with that, dude, thank you for coming on.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):

Yes,

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):

Thank you, Chris.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):

Of course. It's been awesome. Thanks for having me. Is there anything you want to plug? No.

Speaker 5 (01:07:12):

Cool. Well, thanks for coming on, dude. It's been a pleasure as always, your rule and thank you. Good

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):

Hanging out guys. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):

Talk

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):

Soon.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):

Alright,

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):

Take it easy. The Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast is brought to you by Creative Live, the world's best online classroom for creative professionals with classes on songwriting, engineering, mixing, and mastering. Go to creative live.com/audio to start learning now. To ask us questions, suggest topics and interact. Visit Ur.