Author: Finn McKenty

Neal Avron is a Grammy-winning producer, mixer, and instrumentalist who has spent decades working with some of the biggest names in rock. His extensive discography includes landmark albums with artists like Fall Out Boy, twenty one pilots, Linkin Park, Weezer, Disturbed, and 30 Seconds to Mars, showcasing his knack for shaping massive, impactful records.

In This Episode

Neal Avron gets into the real-world psychology of making records at the highest level. He shares his approach to navigating the turbulent dynamics between band members, explaining how to manage egos and ensure everyone feels heard—even when their ideas aren’t working. Neal discusses the importance of acting as a mentor, knowing when to push an artist, and when to shut a session down to preserve both the project and the people involved. He also touches on how his background as a musician and producer informs his current work as a mixer, the challenges of working with sessions from less experienced producers in the modern era of home recording, and the mindset required to build a sustainable, long-term career in music.

Timestamps

• [3:06] Navigating band member egos in the studio
• [4:28] Why drama often leads to the best songs
• [5:37] Coaching artists through difficult mental states
• [7:01] Why shutting down a session for a few days is always worthwhile
• [8:43] The necessary role of an artist’s ego
• [10:05] The trick to capturing a “live” performance in the studio
• [12:45] How Neal gets a feel for a band’s dynamic before a project starts
• [15:43] The producer’s job is to be “everything to everyone”
• [17:46] The X-factor of production: Knowing when to get out of the way
• [19:44] The “look busy” complex and why a song written in 15 minutes can still be great
• [24:15] How being a musician and producer has made him a better mixer
• [26:58] Mixing in the “wild west” of home recording
• [37:07] The mixing approach for 21 Pilots’ “Blurryface”
• [42:33] Challenging a band (like Fall Out Boy) to write better songs
• [48:50] The responsibility of making records that support a band’s entire crew
• [52:04] Neal’s career evolution from studio tech to producer
• [56:38] Fantasizing about a simple 40-hour-a-week job
• [1:01:39] How having kids forced him to find a better work-life balance
• [1:06:26] Why you have to be willing to put in the insane hours when you’re young
• [1:21:52] How fully-formed demos have changed the pre-production process

Nick Pilotta is URM’s Production Manager, the guy behind the scenes making sure everything from Nail The Mix to our courses runs smoothly. Before joining the team full-time, he got his start interning with producer Andrew Wade and has worked as a mix assistant and assistant engineer for producers like Sean O’Keefe. He keeps his production chops sharp by working on music with his own band and taking on select outside projects.

In This Episode

URM’s Production Manager, Nick Pilotta, returns to the podcast for a chill but super insightful conversation about the mindset and psychology behind a modern audio career. He and Eyal get into the realities of hitting creative plateaus—that frustrating point where your skills just seem to stall out—and discuss how to bust through them by strategically changing your variables. Nick also shares his personal journey from working unsustainable 18-hour days to embracing a healthier, more structured schedule, emphasizing the importance of setting boundaries to improve not just your mental health, but the quality of your work. They also dive deep into the crucial human side of production, covering everything from managing client relationships and handling pressure to developing the soft skills needed for tense studio situations. Nick opens up about dealing with major disappointments, like a band breaking up right after an album is finished, and how to reframe those “failures” as powerful learning experiences. Plus, he gives a fascinating look into the problem-solving that went into transitioning Nail The Mix to a high-quality remote format during the pandemic. For anyone wrestling with burnout, self-doubt, or the day-to-day grind, this episode is packed with relatable stories and practical advice on building a sustainable and successful career.

Timestamps

• [00:02:56] How Nick’s audio skills apply to his URM work
• [00:04:42] Staying current with production trends even when not mixing full-time
• [00:07:37] The feeling of breaking through a production plateau
• [00:09:29] Applying the psychology of breaking fitness plateaus to audio work
• [00:12:18] Adhering to a schedule in a chaotic industry
• [00:14:45] Overcoming the mental block of needing to finish a project in one sitting
• [00:19:17] Learning interpersonal skills by “modeling” a mentor’s behavior with bands
• [00:22:37] Why the human side of production is often harder than the technical side
• [00:24:41] How to know if you’re mentally suited for high-pressure studio situations
• [00:28:26] Chasing the “endorphin high” of completing a difficult project
• [00:30:26] The gut-wrenching feeling of a band breaking up after you’ve finished their album
• [00:33:42] Finding the positives and lessons in a project that “failed”
• [00:38:13] Gaining perspective by imagining your problems from an outsider’s point of view
• [00:41:54] Distinguishing between valid concerns and just sweating the small stuff
• [00:45:44] The “4 AM test” for deciding if something is worth worrying about
• [00:54:27] Letting things play out vs. staying in control
• [00:59:31] The importance of taking a real vacation to reset your brain
• [01:03:33] Understanding the mindset of “hyper-achievers” like Will Putney
• [01:05:48] The thought process behind pivoting Nail The Mix to a remote format
• [01:17:19] Overcoming the “fear of starting” a new creative endeavor like a Twitch stream

Buster Odeholm is a Swedish producer, mixer, and multi-instrumentalist who has become a major force in the modern metal scene. As a founding member, guitarist, and primary songwriter for Humanity’s Last Breath, he helped pioneer a sound defined by crushing low-tuned riffs and dense, atmospheric production. He is also the drummer for the influential djent band Vildhjarta and has mixed for a wide array of artists including Sworn In, Reflections, and thrown. He is currently producing the much-buzzed-about band Alt.

In This Episode

Buster Odeholm is back for another killer Q&A session, getting deep into the nitty-gritty of his production workflow. He kicks things off by discussing his recent in-person production work and what makes him decide to invest his time in an unsigned band. He then dives into the art of drum programming, explaining how being a drummer gives him an edge and sharing his philosophy of finding the sweet spot between a dynamic, human performance and the consistent power of triggered samples. Buster also breaks down how he manages producer ego versus a band’s vision, his method for memorizing Vildhjarta’s insane drum parts, and gives an incredibly detailed look into his process for creating complex live show files—from automating mutes for stutter effects to using automated EQ on pitch-shifted guitar parts. This one is packed with technical insights on making modern metal sound massive, both in the studio and on stage.

Products Mentioned

• Pro Tools
• Reaper
• GetGood Drums

Timestamps

• [2:07] Producing the band Alt in person vs. remote mixing
• [3:32] How to identify an unsigned band with potential
• [5:55] The challenge of programming drums as a drummer
• [6:28] Viewing the computer as a virtuosic instrument
• [8:08] The most common mistake guitarists make when programming drums
• [11:34] Where Buster finds inspiration for innovative sounds
• [13:33] Transitioning from mixing a band to producing them from the ground up
• [14:50] Suggesting different guitar neck positions to get a thicker tone
• [17:38] Prioritizing mixing over playing in his own bands
• [18:43] Buster’s process for learning and memorizing Vildhjarta’s complex drum parts
• [24:25] Does he think about “emotional intent” when mixing?
• [27:27] Balancing his own production ideas with the band’s artistic vision
• [29:26] How to give direct, honest feedback without destroying the relationship
• [33:23] A deep dive into creating complex live backing tracks
• [35:37] Using Reaper to automate mutes for inhumanly tight live stutter effects
• [36:42] Automating EQ on pitch-shifted guitar parts for live shows
• [37:52] When and how he uses reference tracks in his mixing workflow
• [39:19] How he handles poorly recorded tracks from a client
• [42:01] What he looks for in drum sample libraries
• [43:45] His non-methodical approach to creating synth and atmospheric parts

Dan Swano is a producer, mixer, mastering engineer, and musician who has been a formidable force in European metal for decades. From his Unisound AB studio, he has shaped the sound of iconic albums for bands like Opeth, Katatonia, Dark Funeral, Ghost, and Marduk. As a musician, he is known for his work in pioneering melodic death metal band Edge of Sanity, as well as Nightingale, among many others.

In This Episode

Dan Swano drops in for a seriously insightful chat about the realities of a long-term career in audio. He breaks down why he ditched attended sessions for a remote-only workflow, giving him and the client the space to make better decisions. Dan dives deep into his monitoring philosophy, explaining why he trusts one set of speakers and a familiar pair of headphones over multiple references, and makes a strong case for why knowing your system is all that matters. He also gets real about the loudness war, admitting it’s a necessary evil that’s gotten easier to handle thanks to better tools. The conversation covers the evolution from needing big consoles for “client appeasement” to the power of a minimal, in-the-box setup. He shares some killer tips on using “future plugins” in unconventional ways and explains how his early “say yes to everything” attitude landed him gigs with bands that would go on to define entire genres.

Products Mentioned

• JH Audio In-Ear Monitors
• Empire Ears In-Ear Monitors
• FabFilter Pro-Q 3
• Universal Audio Pultec EQ Collection
• TC Electronic Finalizer
• Soundtheory Gullfoss
• oeksound Soothe2
• oeksound Spiff
• Anexwaves Noise Reduction Plugins
• U-He Satin

Timestamps

• [5:20] Why Dan prefers working remotely over attended sessions
• [8:18] The problem with huge, expensive studio monitors
• [12:00] Why he prefers one set of speakers and headphones over multiple reference monitors
• [17:42] The myth of not being able to mix or master on headphones
• [23:31] Dan’s experience with super high-end JH Audio in-ears
• [30:30] How your subconscious gives you the right mix direction in the first five seconds
• [33:23] Dan’s thoughts on the loudness war and how it degraded audio
• [38:45] Cutting vinyl from full dynamic range masters
• [44:26] Why you don’t need a big analog console to make modern music
• [47:04] The old days of “client appeasement” and needing big gear to look professional
• [53:53] The importance of total recall and why he prefers working in the box
• [1:03:27] Mixing the first Dissection album on a PA console
• [1:07:19] His go-to EQ: FabFilter Pro-Q 3
• [1:09:59] Using “future plugins” like Gullfoss in unconventional ways
• [1:15:25] Abusing Dolby and DBX noise reduction plugins for creative effect
• [1:22:16] How Jens Bogren ended up producing Bloodbath’s “Nightmares Made Flesh”
• [1:31:12] How saying “yes” to every project led to working with Opeth, Katatonia, and Marduk
• [1:53:37] How mixing super-dense death metal makes mixing rock feel like a luxury
• [2:01:04] Why it’s crucial for bands to provide reference tracks
• [2:05:11] The challenge of referencing a mix from a lesser-known but brilliant engineer

Kevin Thrasher is a guitarist, songwriter, producer, and engineer who masterfully juggles life on the road with a high-level studio career. He’s best known as the lead guitarist and a primary songwriter for Escape the Fate, but he has also built an impressive production resume, working as a full-time engineer for Travis Barker and collaborating with artists like Machine Gun Kelly and super-producer John Feldman.

In This Episode

Kevin Thrasher breaks down how he navigates his dual roles as a touring musician and an in-demand producer. He shares the awesome story of how a session with Escape the Fate led to him becoming Travis Barker’s go-to engineer, emphasizing the importance of professionalism and just being a cool hang. Kevin gets into the nitty-gritty of his modern workflow, detailing how skills honed in metal—like managing phase and complex arrangements—translate directly to producing today’s genre-bending pop-punk and rap-rock. He discusses the specific challenges of this new world, like controlling massive low-end and blending live drums with trap beats. He also drops some serious wisdom on the mindset required to succeed, from learning an entire set in four days for a tour with Avenge Sevenfold to the value of not burning bridges in a surprisingly small industry. This is a super insightful look into a modern, multi-faceted music career.

Products Mentioned

• Avid Pro Tools
• Apple Logic Pro

Timestamps

• [3:13] Juggling a band, engineering for Travis Barker, and producing other artists
• [5:00] The story of how he got hired by Travis Barker after an Escape the Fate session
• [8:32] Why being a “cool hang” and knowing when to speak up (and when not to) is crucial
• [14:22] Starting out with music-related day jobs like being a stagehand
• [17:38] Using URM Academy to level up his engineering skills
• [20:36] The difficulty of maintaining a production career while on a 200-show-a-year tour schedule
• [23:25] The modern songwriting process: turning improvised jam sessions into hits
• [27:20] How working with a world-class live drummer changes the production process
• [29:52] Why the skills you learn producing dense metal mixes translate so well to other genres
• [32:03] The biggest mixing challenge in modern pop-punk/rap-rock: controlling the low end
• [33:50] The technical puzzle of blending live drums, samples, and trap beats into one cohesive unit
• [37:31] His method for learning an entire setlist in four days before a tour with Avenge Sevenfold
• [38:35] The “one day at a time” mindset for tackling overwhelming tasks
• [47:30] A tour nightmare: losing all in-ears while opening for Mötley Crüe
• [53:19] Dealing with being starstruck when A-list artists walk into the studio
• [59:38] Advice for up-and-coming producers on how to get started and build a reputation
• [1:03:00] Why you should never complain about clients or mix notes on social media
• [1:05:51] A lesson in not burning bridges: the time he got fired from an Escape the Fate tour, only to be hired back a year later