WILL PUTNEY: Modern Metal Workflow, The Secret Weapon of a Heavy Mix, Vocal Production Psychology

Eyal Levi (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, and now your host, AAL Levy. Welcome to the URM Podcast. Thank you so much for being here. It's crazy to think that we're now on our fifth year, but it's true, and it's only because of you, the listeners. And if you'd like to see us stick around for another five years, there are a few simple things that you can do that would really, really help us out, and I would be endlessly appreciative. Number one, share our episodes with your friends. If you get something out of these episodes, I'm sure they will too. So please share us with your friends. Number two, post our episodes on your Facebook and Instagram and tag me and our guests too. My Instagram is at al Levy urm audio. And let me just let you know that we love seeing ourselves tagged in these posts.

(00:00:55):

Who knows, we might even respond. And number three, leave us reviews and five stars please anywhere you can. We especially love iTunes reviews. Once again, I want to thank you all for the years and years of loyalty. I just want you to know that we will never, ever charge you for this podcast, and I will always work as hard as possible to improve the episodes in every single way possible. All I ask in return is a share post and a tag. Now, let's get on with it. Hello everybody. Welcome to the URM podcast. I am Al Levy and I'm here to talk to you about something very, very exciting. It's a course we've made with Will Putney called How It's Done, which is a start to finish production course that covers his entire method, his entire style, start to finish with two incredible bands, dired his murder and fit for an autopsy.

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There's never been anything like this ever released besides my monuments bootcamp, but this takes it quite a few steps further. And the course is available now final week of October, 2020, and I just wanted to tell you guys about it because it's going to close up. Just so you know, this podcast episode Will's about to come on. This is not just a plug for the course. I want it to be upfront that we're going to be talking about the course. Full disclosure. However, we also talk about a lot of Will's philosophy towards production and mixing. So even if you have no interest in the course or you already bought it or whatever, if you're a fan of Will's or just a fan of great production, I still think you'll get a lot out of this episode. That said, I introduce you, will Putney. Alright, will Putney welcome back to the URM Podcast.

Will Putney (00:02:39):

What's up, man? How are you

Eyal Levi (00:02:40):

Doing? Very, very well. Enjoying month nine.

Will Putney (00:02:44):

Yeah,

Eyal Levi (00:02:45):

I

Will Putney (00:02:45):

Feel you there. I noticed you have less beard today.

Eyal Levi (00:02:50):

It's one of those things where there's less of me overall and I'm enjoying the way my face looks.

Will Putney (00:02:58):

There you go. Well, congrats on that.

Eyal Levi (00:03:00):

I mean, you did the same thing too, right?

Will Putney (00:03:02):

Yeah. Probably not to the extent you just went through, but

Eyal Levi (00:03:05):

No, no. You didn't have a biker beard, but you had a bigger beard before you dropped all that weight.

Will Putney (00:03:12):

Yeah, I guess I, I did. Yeah. Now that I think about it, it just works better now. Keep it tight now

Eyal Levi (00:03:18):

The sexy closer. Cut.

Will Putney (00:03:19):

Yeah, there it is.

Eyal Levi (00:03:21):

Well, you know what it was, okay, so I was hanging out with a girl and we were watching Hoarders and some dude was in one of the interviews. He had this super wild beard, just like nasty beard, and she was like, look, he's got your beard. And I was like,

Will Putney (00:03:41):

No. Oh no. Yeah, it's like a sign. I

Eyal Levi (00:03:43):

Love it. Yeah, I got that weird sinking feeling in my stomach and it was like bummer.

Will Putney (00:03:47):

Yeah. Well, you're wearing it well, so

Eyal Levi (00:03:50):

Thank you.

Will Putney (00:03:52):

Bit of a life upgrade. That's cool.

Eyal Levi (00:03:53):

Thank you. I appreciate it. So reason I wanted to do this is because we just released the course we made with you how it's done. I just wanted to talk about it for a little bit because people who are in URM know about it and anyone who's seen the ads or seen the posts has seen about it, but I'm sure there's some people who only listen to the podcast who would be pissed off if they didn't hear about this. Since it closes in five days from now, I know that I'll end up getting some pissed off emails. I just wanted to tell them about it. So I'll just give you guys an intro. If you've seen my Monument bootcamp, which I know a lot of you guys have, that we basically took monuments start to finish on a song and it was really cool, really proud of it.

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Great for 2016, and that's what we based, what we did with Will off of. However, there's one big difference with two big differences. First of all, it's Will, not Me and Will is way better than me. But then there's also the other fact, and here's me not being funny. The thing with monuments is that we were rerecording a song that was already released, so there's no pressure on the band. They just showed up, got paid and played. It was pressure on me to make a cool course, but no pressure, no real life kind of pressure. This situation of the course we made with Will was a real life situation where things were on the line. We're talking about a band's career, the label's, expectations, fans' expectations, and obviously will's expectations for what's going to come out of it. And you throw those elements into the situation and that changes everything because then you're not just sitting there trying to curate a tutorial or something. It's actually literally what the name is, how it's done. So that's the big difference I think, which also will, by the way, is pretty amazing that you didn't go nuts having to both deal with them and deal with us

Will Putney (00:05:57):

With. Yeah. Well, I've been multitasking for a number of years now, so you get some time management skills under your belt in this career. It didn't break me mentally. I thought it potentially could have. It was okay. And I think doing it with a band that I was comfortable with obviously helped a bit too. If it was a bunch of strangers walking into the studio for the first time, I feel like that would've been a more tense version of this course. So it was cool that I had my buddies on board for the ride with Me Too. I feel like maybe they cut me a little slack, but regardless, I mean, we were literally under the gun to make a song in a few days that didn't exist beforehand. And yeah, we did it and you got to record it all happen.

Eyal Levi (00:06:41):

Well, so, okay, so in case I didn't mention it, the band in question is th artist murder Sikh Australian band. If you haven't heard them though, I'm sure you've heard them. If you're listening to this podcast, and I mean you guys have a longstanding relationship, so the rapport was there. I'm sure that if it was a bunch of strangers, this would not have been possible.

Will Putney (00:07:00):

Yeah, I think we still could have done it. I think it would've been

Eyal Levi (00:07:04):

I under those time constraints,

Will Putney (00:07:05):

Different bands have different personalities. I mean, that's how I work. So whoever, now that I kind of think about it, whoever walked through the door, we were getting it done in that amount of time. And it doesn't really matter, I guess if they're my best buddies or I don't even know them, that was the project that I got hired for so enough, we would've enough, we would've got it done. But yeah, I think it was a little more, I think just the fact that I was with my friends kept me from going insane. But yeah, it was really intense. I've never been so under the microscope while simultaneously trying to do my job. There's literally, I couldn't touch a knob without Nick being like, what are you doing? Can you move over? Can I get an angle of that? It was like every step of dialing tones and working through the whole process of producing a record, I was like, oh, I have to explain myself why. I go, I didn't think about that, how that was going to add time to my day. Just think about performing, think about all the tasks you perform in a day and then stopping after each one to talk to a camera and say what it is you're doing. It's like that time adds up, man. That was not factored in for sure.

Eyal Levi (00:08:17):

Not just that, but making sure that you're doing it at the right angle so that it can be filmed. I

Will Putney (00:08:21):

Was like, oh yeah, we'll just go with the flow. And then I realized we all did right off the bat, like, oh, no, no, we have to go into detail in each part. So every task that goes into making a record now, it takes three times this long. But it was a cool experience. It was a nice challenge to see if I can knock it all out. I like that we did it with an international band, like the flights are booked, there's no turning back. It's not like, oh,

Eyal Levi (00:08:49):

Got to get it done.

Will Putney (00:08:50):

You guys could drive home tomorrow. Yeah, we really had a deadline. So yeah, it was cool to see it. It was cool to see it all play out.

Eyal Levi (00:08:58):

How did you manage to keep yourself in the flow while having to basically split your brain between doing the actual, not doing some half-assed job for a tutorial, doing a real job for real recording while also not just half-ass explaining things, actually explaining things. How did you balance that in your head, giving 100% to both?

Will Putney (00:09:26):

Well, I wanted to make the course as cool as possible, so it was like I signed up for it. I knew what I was in for. I didn't want to half face it, really. So to me, it was as important as making the record. If I say I'm going to do something, I want to try to make it as cool as possible. So I'm just driven by my own, my sort of drive to put out cool products and make cool records and just do everything as best as I can. So it doesn't really, I don't feel like I was going to cut corners for me. It's hard to cut corners at anything that I'm going to put my name on, and I didn't have to really think about it. I was just like, oh, so

Eyal Levi (00:10:07):

It's just a job,

Will Putney (00:10:08):

Just job. It's just job. This is just the way I have to do it if I want to get it done. So I always believe in it doesn't matter if it sucks, it only matters what the end product is, what people hear, what people watch. So getting that whole process to me is just a means to an end. So it was like, well, you just have to do it this, this is how it comes out. Good.

Eyal Levi (00:10:29):

If people are curious, just go to nail the mix.com/how it's done. It closes November 2nd, 2020, so yeah, you don't have much time. But that said, so the course is divided up into eight sections, pre-pro guitar, bass vocals, drums, editing, mix prep, mixing. Some of these sections are super, super fucking long, but I just wanted to talk to you a little bit about what's in each of the sections just so people know. There's one thing that I should mention first, there's a second band and it's your band fit for an autopsy. And the reason, tell me if I'm articulating this well, reason that we have fit for an autopsy in there, besides the fact that fit for an autopsy is cool is because th are as awesome as they are, there are stylistic limitations, just there's trappings in that genre. You can make the most badass art record in the world, but it might be missing a few of the things that you would normally do on 70 other records.

Will Putney (00:11:42):

And I feel like honestly, we could have supplemented it with a variety of different bands to show some other techniques. Art is a very extreme metal band that has a particular sound, and if you only learned, I think this course gives you a pretty broad education based on what some techniques could be to record, get guitar tone, get drum tones, mixing techniques that could apply across the board. There's plenty of that, but the actual source material is a bit pigeonholed in a sense where there are limitations to what we would do. Yes, it's extreme

Eyal Levi (00:12:19):

Metal.

Will Putney (00:12:19):

So I just knew my band was around and I was like, you know what? There's a couple things that I can mix into this course that fit does that tha Art doesn't do in sonically and stuff. So I just use that just to grab some extra detail to fill in some of the gaps. And like I said, it could have been interchangeable with a lot of different bands, but I knew there were a couple crucial things where I was like, if I'm going to put a recording class out, we have to cover this, and if we're not doing it with iar, then at least I've got to get somebody else in there to sort of supplement it.

Eyal Levi (00:12:50):

We made sure that it's comprehensive and not just how to make the most badass extreme recording, but just how to actually do a badass recording period.

Will Putney (00:13:02):

I like the holes that we filled in with the supplemental material, and I feel like now I have, if you're into any kind of production that I do, I feel like it gives you a bit more insight for a few of the other tricks and stuff.

Eyal Levi (00:13:14):

So let's talk about Pre-Pro for a bit. It's a pretty good section. One thing that I've noticed is that while I personally think that pre-pro is, I've always thought it's maybe the most important thing without, it's like you're trying to build a house on a shaky foundation. Doesn't matter how nice your walls and furniture are, shit could just crumble. I've always seen pre-pro that way, and from watching you do pre-pro, you go pretty deep in there. You do whatever's necessary. So could you talk to me a little bit about your philosophy regarding pre-production?

Will Putney (00:13:50):

Sure. I mean, I do agree with you. It's probably the most important part of the record because bad songs just make bad records. There's no way around it. The earliest and most critical step of fixing bad songs or taking good songs and making them better or as good as they can possibly be is, and I think a lot of people don't put a lot of stock in it because they're not used to that kind of environment in a studio. Or maybe they hadn't seen a producer who was that. But I mean, a lot of the great producers, all my favorite producers put that value in pre-production too, and for the right reason. It's really where all the problems get solved, all the songs take shape the right way, the themes of the record, the whole vibe. It's where you check all the boxes to make sure you're going to have a good record before you even start to record.

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And there are sessions where I've spent longer in pre-production than actually tracking a record because it just needed to work or it was more important, or we were just in that kind of groove and things were going the right way. And I've definitely put a lot of stock in that. And even in this particular course, I mean, Diar didn't have a lot of time to really prepare a song. This was a squeezed in between touring and stuff like that, and they were in and out so fast that when they got in, we did a ton to how that song started to how it ended. It's two different songs

Eyal Levi (00:15:17):

And you get to see the whole process.

Will Putney (00:15:19):

Yeah, I mean, sometimes a band just kicks ass and they come in and everything's great and it's easy, and sometimes you have to sit there and write a record. It really runs the gamut of, it could be so intense at times, and I feel like it's the necessary step to make a good record.

Eyal Levi (00:15:42):

I think it also needs to be said that it's not just a creative thing, it's also a technical thing and logistical thing in the pre-pro, even if the band does have their shit together, and well, most bands you work with have their shit together. Let's just say the music is totally ready, but you still need to map out the record. You still need to prepare exactly how many heads are going to be needed, whatever technical stuff you're going to have to worry about. It's a lot better to figure that out upfront than to be wasting time during the session to do that. So I think that there's also, there's both the creative aspect of pre-pro, but then the technical aspect of just setting yourself for a job that requires resources.

Will Putney (00:16:29):

Sure. I tend not to think about that stuff anymore. We're in such a groove at the studio with sort of the technical side and prep side of things that those usually just become afterthoughts to us. So I never really talk about it, but mean we, there is so much of that that gets done on day one, day two of the record where we like clockwork, we just iron out all these things, all right, how do we get 10? Where's your session? What's it look like? How do we build our session? Are we doing this live? Are we doing this in the computer? What kind of gear do we need? What shape are the instruments in? Do you have all your shit? Do you need to go to the store to get more strings? Do you need your base intonated? All of those little things. We go through all of it at the beginning of the record.

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We solve all the problems as fast as we can right away so we could just get to work. And so on week two, when we're right in the middle of something, we don't realize like, oh, okay, we can't work today. We forgot this thing needs to get fixed, and now we're just going to sit around. So it definitely, it really helps you streamline your workflow for the rest of the record once you get all that tech stuff out of the way early. But yeah, it's like when you find that balance, I mean, you see us go through all that on this one song with the course, which is great because when you get in that rhythm and you're making a lot of records and you get all this stuff done efficiently, it's really nice. You can just get to work fast. And I think that's really why we have things set up to run so efficiently. We don't want to get bogged down with technical stuff anymore. We just want to make records and do the thing we are passionate about doing. So yeah, I am happy with all the detail we went into on that side too in the course.

Eyal Levi (00:18:17):

Yeah. Just a side note, one thing I've noticed about creative professionals that I've known in my life, whether it's like a fine artist or a video maker or a director or a producer or professional musician, whatever, the ones who are prolific tend to have a way to get all these technical, like the annoying tasks, very systematized and out of the way, and they put real time into it. And I'm into just having a system to where you don't even have to think about it, you just do it at the beginning of a project so that you can put the max brainpower into what actually matters, which is the art you're creating.

Will Putney (00:18:59):

Sure. I mean, there's a really great section in the course with Jim, our guitar tech, where he kind of goes through the crazy level of detail on how to set up a guitar and all that. And I realized a few years ago, I get kind of into native guitar, I could restream a guitar, I can do all of these things. But I realized a while ago, I was like, I should get an expert. I should streamline my time so that I can just focus on being creative and making the songs. And it's like, so we have all these little systems in place at the studio where different people have different tasks, and once a record comes in, we see what we need and it all gets split up and it gets done as efficiently as possible. And it's been great working like that because I don't want to sit there for six hours and intonate a guitar and Polish frets and work on a tru rod when I could be trying to make this song better.

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That's what the band really hired me for. They don't care who sets the guitar up if it's set up correctly. So we learn to be more efficient by prioritizing what's important on a record and just having other experts get other things done. And you'll kind of see where you should put your, I think a valuable part of this course is being able to see how I prioritize time and what I put stock in. And learning that through the years of making records is making me definitely a more efficient producer because I've discovered where I should put my strengths and where I should let other people handle certain things. So it's a pretty interesting way to look at it in that sense.

Eyal Levi (00:20:36):

Well, I think one of the keys here that you said is you do know how to kind of set up guitars. You could get away with it if you needed to. It's not like you don't know how. However you recognize that there's people who, this is actually their full-time job who love being airs or guitar techs who will do an incredible job and people are hiring you for a certain reason. And that reason isn't to set up their guitars. I think knowing exactly how to delegate and use your time wisely is a very, very imported skill to pick up. I think actually early on in a producer's job, they feel like they have to take on every single role, which there's no way you can be an expert at everything. That's just, there's nobody that's an expert at everything.

Will Putney (00:21:26):

We talk about the value of time a lot, and when we're looking at projects, we kind of sit down and think about that. All right, we could do this. It would take this long, but what if we just did the thing we're good at? That's what we always say. Or we could just do the thing we're good at and then it pays the bills and that pays for that. And there's a give and take with some of that stuff. But the value of time and what you're actually really good at and what people want to hire you for, I mean, you have to maximize that for people because then you give the bands the most attention. You can stay in a creative space longer. You're not sidetracked with details that you might not need to be involved in. And I think the bands appreciate it more too. Just more available to them.

Eyal Levi (00:22:11):

Yep. Alright, let's move on. Talk about guitar some real quick. Sounds interesting. Anybody nailed the mix.com/how it's done? Alright, the guitar section, you go pretty deep on it. One of my staff members who we make their staff members watch everything so that they know how to communicate it to people.

(00:22:30):

And one of the things that this guy said, and this is someone who has had a legit career with guitar gear repping it to large stores, and he actually, he's one of those dudes who knows guitar gear, knows guitar tone. And what he was saying was that he thought he kind of understood how to get guitar tone, but the level of detail that you took things to with the multiple amps, the multiple mics, the multiple cabs, and worked it all in a cohesive way, it showed him a level that he didn't know was possible. So let's talk about your guitar approach. A little pretty intense.

Will Putney (00:23:11):

Yeah. Well that's nice. Tell your staff member thank you. But to me it doesn't seem that crazy.

Eyal Levi (00:23:19):

You just do what you do.

Will Putney (00:23:21):

But it's been the evolution of where I learned how to kind of dial guitar tones and the multiple amp thing. Obviously a lot of people follow me know that I used to work with machine. This is some of the theory behind tracking that came out of his studio earlier on the way, the phase interaction between multiple mic sources sort can create a denser guitar tone and how you use different mics or different amps, different placements to sort of EQ your source signal guitar tone. So for me, it's always revolved around finding the right amp and the right guitar, the right amp, the right pickups. We sort of have enough knowledge in the world when a band walks in to know, okay, this kind of setup will probably be cool as a starting point. And then using the array of mics that we have in different positions and stuff and shooting, doing some pretty detailed shootouts to see what's going to be the best result for this particular thing. And you learn your tricks over the years and stuff. So I guess I get to skip a few steps in a video because it's not 10 years of me shooting out every piece of gear and every mic.

Eyal Levi (00:24:36):

And besides what good will that do anybody they need to put in their own 10 years,

Will Putney (00:24:42):

You just see some go-to spots where I've already landed with my own homework. And I think that's pretty cool because it's a bit of a cheat sheet in a way where it's like, Hey, it took me a long time to figure out these couple combos work really cool for this and here it is. But yeah, it's always back to your ears with guitar stuff for me, because I've heard lately, man, I've heard such cool guitar tones with such simple setups and I know we have a lot of gear and it's a pretty intimidating thing if you're not really a full-time producer, you're not as deep into guitar research as we are at the studio. But a lot of it is, you'll see in the videos too, is me just listening to what's happening and trying to make a decision based on what I think is just cool sounding.

(00:25:33):

And in the end, sometimes I'll notice I'm using one mic and maybe two mics, but it's like I've muted and unmuted on my mixer and I found something that I think sounds good and it's not overly complicated. In the end, the setup is complicated. I want to try all these things and I have the options to change the blend between amps and the blend between microphones and all this stuff before I commit to a sound. But it could be a very simple setup still. I get asked about guitar stuff a lot. That's why I wanted to get there with the conversation because it doesn't always have to be complicated. Sometimes there's a simple setup that kicks ass, but you do see a pretty deep one on this course, which was cool because how we work through it. And then the next phase of incorporating pedals and how different overdrives and distortions can change the character of the same ampt tone. So part by part you can sort of have a slight vibe change in your guitar tracking without fully breaking down a setup is pretty useful stuff too. There's a lot in this and I'm glad we went deep enough.

Eyal Levi (00:26:42):

The interesting thing about what you said about how sometimes a guitar tone is just simple. One of the things that actually I think is really valuable about this course, if nothing else, if you get nothing else out of it, is seeing how somebody who's at the top of their game decides that something's good enough and something's not. Because at the end of the day, say the guitar tone you arrived at is super complex or say that it's super simple like a 51 50 with a 57 on a recto cab or some shit like that with a tube screamer like the standard fare that can really kick ass sometimes either way, no matter which way you took to get to the final result, you're ending at a final result that your ear tells you is good. And where I think a lot of people go wrong is they don't know how to decide what's good.

(00:27:37):

They don't understand either. They don't understand what good is yet or they haven't learned to trust themselves or they don't have a guide. I mean, you had a mentor, lots of people had mentors, Andy Sne had a mentor, he had Colin Richardson. A lot of producers who have done very well at some point in their career had somebody who, even if it was for just six months or something, who kind of helped show some of the really important ropes. And so I think if someone is kind of just on their own in a basement somewhere, just kind in the dark with nobody to show them this is what a good take sounds like this is what a good tone is. Oftentimes I find people will get one and then just overshoot it completely, or not even get close at all, but not know the difference, which is the key, not know the difference and not know how to know the difference.

Will Putney (00:28:33):

Yeah, I mean I've seen that before and sometimes we work with people unfortunately where I'm like, this guy's really talented, but he actually just doesn't know what's cool. And you kind of have to figure that out. And I think it's like you have to study producers or records or productions that you like and you have to ask yourself, why do I like this? What is cool about this? And then it's that internal homework that you do through the years where you're trying to find your identity in this world. You kind of have to just find things that you like and understand why it's cool. And I think that gets lost on a lot of people initially. And I think it can create confusion when you go into producing a record because it's like what you makes this band cool? What kind of sonic landscape can you provide that's going to make this a cooler sounding record or make this band sound cool?

(00:29:29):

And yeah, I learned early on that it was important to figure these details out before I let bands trust me with their music because you don't want to be an unqualified person in that field. It takes a lot of your own research to follow what's happening in production, what trends are cool, what isn't cool, what you should avoid played out, what's oversaturated. I could hear a record and know if I think people are going to like it by the production sometimes, and then it usually checks out because I'm like, we stayed dialed into this kind of stuff. So it's on a cultural level too, aside from the technical side of it, and obviously working with a producer who's cool or trying to learn from your favorite guys and see their tips and see what they like is a valuable part of it. But a lot of it's just understanding the culture of the scenes you work in so that when you sit down you're

Eyal Levi (00:30:31):

Like,

Will Putney (00:30:31):

Oh, I like this. It's kind of like this thing that this band does or this reminds me of this era of tones. And it's like understanding all of that stuff. It all goes in, it should all be swimming in your head when you get in front of an amp or a microphone and you start to design guitar tones or design productions.

Eyal Levi (00:30:52):

So what I'm hoping is when people see the guitar section is not that they say, I have to have a rig exactly like this and then try to imitate it because I think that if they try to do that, they're going to be disappointed because they don't have your particular brain wiring that got your tastes and cultural understanding to the point where your rig is just an extension of how you hear things. But what I would like for them to see is A, that this is possible. B, this is how you come to your decisions. And hopefully they can learn from that and it can guide them on how to make their own decisions and how to come to their own conclusions on what they like and what they don't like, rather than just see what you're doing and try to copy it. That's not going to work anyways.

Will Putney (00:31:44):

And I use a lot of gear in this course. I've just been acquiring it over the years and I pick up stuff that I like, but

Eyal Levi (00:31:52):

You don't need it though.

Will Putney (00:31:52):

You don't need it. And I didn't always have all this stuff. It was like I had all this stuff yesterday. It's just been me picking up pieces over the years when I was able to afford to if I got paid to make records. But a lot of records that people like that I make, I had a third of this, a quarter of this stuff, and it's like I'll do a mix today and compare it to some of the older stuff and I'm like, they're both cool. It didn't matter that I have more shit now. So there's a lot of gear coverage in this course. I do want people to understand where the strengths of analog gear can really be and how I use them to do things that I prefer over the computer, but just because I prefer it by that little bit, it doesn't mean it's the only way to make something sound good. And I'm sure that's a redundant topic at this point now with the URM people, but I don't want people to be intimidated by

Eyal Levi (00:32:46):

It never gets old.

Will Putney (00:32:48):

I just don't want people to be intimidated by all the stuff we use in the course. None of it really is necessary to make a cool record. It's just extra sugar on top because I've prefer certain things.

Eyal Levi (00:33:01):

Let's not forget you also use an amim on the course too.

Will Putney (00:33:05):

Sure. Yeah.

Eyal Levi (00:33:05):

So you don't just use the tube stuff or the analog stuff. You use plugins, you use a lot of stuff that everybody can afford.

Will Putney (00:33:17):

Yeah, I'm on really economically friendly stock logic plugins on a lot of channels on this mix. And my am sims half the guitar tone probably in the end. And yeah, there's plenty of stuff in the box that's cheap, free or affordable that gets you pretty damn far with this production.

Eyal Levi (00:33:39):

Yeah, I want to move on topics, but just at the risk of getting redundant, I just want to drive this home. You're not using that gear because you need it, you're doing it because you like it, and that's a very big distinction.

Will Putney (00:33:53):

Yeah, absolutely.

Eyal Levi (00:33:54):

Yeah. Alright, so well first of all, nail the mix.com/now it's done. The base section in my opinion is really, really cool because we show obviously how you did it for art, just kind of a standard way about going about things, but then also did this whole section with all the pedals and the cabs and all that. And so it's actually a very robust base section. The reason I'm bringing this up is because I feel like base is one of those elements in metal production that is so crucial. It's, in my opinion, it's like the hidden weapon. It gives guitar teeth, it makes the drums hit harder, it pulls everything together. It is like the difference between an album being a eunuch or not, but it's overlooked. It's overlooked and almost an afterthought a lot of times and it's anything but an afterthought for you.

Will Putney (00:34:54):

Sure. I definitely, I like to have base heavy productions. If you hear a record and there's not a lot of base on, it's just because somebody else is telling me to turn down, not me. But yeah, late towards, I don't know where it was, maybe five or six years ago, I realized that I wasn't paying attention to base as much and I think it changed so much for me. I think it's when I had switched monitors that changed how I was looking at my low mitts and I realized that there's so much more cool stuff I could be doing here. I was like an NS 10 guy forever, and then I was jumping around between monitors, but a lot of what I really noticed on all of them was like, oh wow, the base picture is so much more dynamic and I hadn't really been prioritizing this as much as I should be.

(00:35:43):

And I really invested in figuring out how to come up with cool new bass tones and tricks and things like that. And now really happy with, I really think it helped me level up on my productions over the past few years for sure. And on this one, we definitely go through a few different ways. I can do stuff using pedals, using the plugin, some of the amp stuff. It's a little bit of everything in a really cool way. But I do think it's one of the most important parts of metal productions nowadays too. It is that hidden sort of secret weapon on why stuff hits hard and sounds heavy. And it's funny, we always do, we typically do bass after guitars, and even when I'm dialing guitars, sometimes I'll put some demo pre-pro bass in because I'm like, the picture's now incomplete to me until I hear bass in the band. And we always say, when we finally get to track bass on a record, we're like, okay, now it's when the record starts to sound good.

Eyal Levi (00:36:54):

I always used to feel the same way.

Will Putney (00:36:56):

Yeah. So yeah, I wanted to capitalize on that feeling now, like, yeah, this is the part that makes this feel complete now to me. But yeah, it was awesome to go through all that stuff. On the course base is one of those things where now I'm in the honeymoon stage of all the exploring of base still

Eyal Levi (00:37:15):

It is so much fun. One of my favorite sections in the course is that part with the pedals. And look, there's nothing wrong with this. I know that a lot of people, tools users for instance, will put it in a di dial the sand amp, get a sick tone and just roll with that and that's fine. There's so many great records have been made that way. But the sonic palette that you had available to you with the pedals and changing settings from part to part of each of the song and really, really getting in there with tweaking that base tone and just getting it amazing before it was even recorded. Not just putting in a di and dialing in a sand amp and thinking, I'll tweak it later. Getting incredible base tones that each match the part you're on before you even track them, I think should be, I hope, very eyeopening to people who don't realize that A, you can do that, or B, who hear a lot of people who have been around a while be get the tone at the source and they're like, oh, those old guys.

Will Putney (00:38:25):

Yeah, for bass, for me, and even for guitars, for anything, you want to hear back what is as close to the finished product as possible. It helps me make decisions easier on takes that are good or bad. It doesn't reveal surprises later if you get into a reamp situation or you try to redesign something. A lot of this was about getting good tones right off the rip because that's a lot of how I produce records. If I have the choice, that's usually how I like to make records. So yeah, it's really crucial for bass, especially based in th art where there's sort of this grinder more high-end style tone. The hands and the take is very affected by listening to how the attack hits with the bass and the drums on this particular production. If I put a different bass tone over this and then went to redesign it later, I might've been left with a bass performance that doesn't work anymore.

(00:39:25):

So it was like I knew we had to have something right off the bat that was really, really close to being done sounding. And I like to take that approach with most of my tracking. But with bass, it's definitely one of the most critical instruments nowadays like that. But yeah, the pedal, my favorite part of pedals has now been bass distortion out of everything I do with all the little toys I have and stuff, lining up all those pedals and having that low end interaction change from part to part in a song is one of my favorite parts of the sound design nowadays. So I'm really glad we got that in this course.

Eyal Levi (00:40:03):

And we've been doing a sneak preview webinar thing for this where we will play different clips from throughout the course interspersed just to show people what's in it and there's a little bit of the base section and every time it gets there, the fucking chat lights up.

Will Putney (00:40:22):

That's awesome.

Eyal Levi (00:40:23):

They love that shit. I really think that even though it's overlooked, the moment that somebody actually understands, they hear it for the first time, how cool it can be and what a difference it does make. You can never go back. I think

Will Putney (00:40:40):

The most, my phone blew up last year with people wanting a nerd out was when a four year strong put a single out and it starts with bass, it's like a bass and drum thing, and I got so many messages that more than any record I put out last year for sure of people like, dude, that bass tone, that bass tone, that bass tone, I'm like, when the fuck did everybody start caring about bass distortion? It was cool.

Eyal Levi (00:41:04):

All it takes is hearing a cool bass tone. People love it.

Will Putney (00:41:08):

That was the hit of last year for me with all the engineers out there. It was so funny. But yeah, it's just a bass guitar and a fuller time and everyone's like, this is amazing. I'm like, alright. There.

Eyal Levi (00:41:20):

I also think is, it's hard, man. I think it's a hard instrument to wrestle. It doesn't always play nice.

Will Putney (00:41:27):

It's the one that makes things amazing or it ruins stuff. It's like the fine line between a good balance mix with all the things you want and then mud and bad. I don't even know how exactly it's an advanced instrument to mix into a record for sure because of where the core frequencies of it sit and how it needs to be treated to work with everything. But when it does, it's the best.

Eyal Levi (00:41:58):

Absolutely.

Will Putney (00:41:58):

I'm glad we got to flex as much as we could with some of the base stuff in this course. It is pretty valuable

Eyal Levi (00:42:06):

For sure. And nail the mix.com/how is done is where you picked the course up. You mentioned drums, so let's move on to drums. You didn't do drums first on this, which interestingly enough, I actually think that's the way techniques evolve over time. Order of operations. I think that we're going to enter a time period maybe a few years from now, 10 20, who knows where the norm is to do drums last

Will Putney (00:42:37):

For certain genres,

Eyal Levi (00:42:38):

For certain genre, for certain genres, of course.

Will Putney (00:42:40):

Yeah. Yeah. There's plenty of bands I work with where we get their tempos and takes off of initial live performances

Eyal Levi (00:42:50):

And that'll never go away. But I guess what I mean is the idea of doing drums last is not going to be a weird thing.

Will Putney (00:42:59):

So where it really applies is when bands write in computers because things are mapped out, tempos are there, you can make the adjustments there, all the files are there. There are a lot of bands that just build their whole records and computers now, especially in metal, a lot of kids in this world, that's how they start their writing processes now. And then it gets broken out to the rest of the band and the drummer works on the midi and the guitar player writes a part and it's all getting worked on in a computer. So when it's like that, and it's not even at a point where a band could even play it yet, it makes sense to just stay in the computer for that level of pre-production and then doing drums last. It helps you maximize the amount of time you still have to play with the arrangements.

(00:43:46):

It gives the drummer more time to actually learn these songs that he maybe never played because his guitar player wrote Impossible Parts in a death metal laptop project and now he has to go figure it out and then we have to go back in and change tempos and drum parts. So it makes sense, but it's this evolving thing in a computer that lets you have the flexibility to play with your record all the way through the end. Once you do drums, it sets a lot of stuff in stone. It is the one downside to doing drums first is that in a week if we have an idea, it's not so easy to go back and recut a drum part. If you're fortunate enough to be able to leave a drum session up for a month, that's cool, but most people aren't. I mean, I can't even really do that at the studio.

(00:44:35):

We've run into that before where we're like, damnit, I wish we had the drum information from when we did drums first to be able to make this edit. But now it's like a pain in the ass or it's impossible. And being able to live in a floating tempo and arrangement scenario with a laptop, it does give you all kinds of flexibility. So I do see a lot of bands I work with doing that now. It's probably kind of split down the middle. I'd say half the bands I work with we're doing drums last at this point in the other half is kind of more of a traditional band in the room approach still. And they both work and they both have their pros and cons. There's really no one right answer for any of this stuff. It's just whatever's going to work with the personalities and band you are working with. But with the th art one, clearly it was great to do drums last because they had just come in and no one had even learned this song or played it. We were still developing the song in the studio. So finishing a song and then 15 minutes later handing it to the drummer being like, all right, let's go track it. It's just not in the cards for this. So

Eyal Levi (00:45:43):

It seems ridiculous when you put it that way.

Will Putney (00:45:45):

Yeah, it's insane. If we just finished a song that he had never played ever in his life because the pre-production was in a computer, what benefit would we stand to gain from, okay, let's start trekking drums right now he doesn't, he may not have even heard what we did yet, and so we did him last. It gave him a couple days to sit at rehearse, workout drum fills. He caught some tempo stuff that us dumb guitar players kind of put in. He's like, Hey, this is a little off the rails here because I'm playing it now. And Jesse's very good, but he's like, this is on, there's a speed issue here. You guys overdid it. We're like, okay, you're right. We did. We're idiots. We play guitar. So we were able to work on the song still with him, and then a few days later we had a better temp set up. He knew what he was doing. We had a much more efficient drum session and it came out way better because we did drums last. So in this case it was great.

Eyal Levi (00:46:46):

And just for people wondering, we go into the micing, we go into the tuning, we go into everything that you would expect basically. It's a pretty detailed section.

Will Putney (00:46:59):

It was a very thorough drum session, especially with the type of drumming in th art too, aside from how we capture the sounds, the post-treatment of the drums and the editing section is really awesome too. I mean, these are difficult drums to work with, so it's definitely as advanced as it could get as far as how do you make sense of this chaos? You get to really see our version of everything on how we could handle this.

Eyal Levi (00:47:27):

Yeah, the editing section is dense too, for sure. Just out of curiosity, man, I feel like I want to know your opinion. My opinion on editing drums, especially these kinds of drums, is that there's the technical side of it, of course, where you have to know how to edit drums, but you also have to have a musical understanding of how these types of drums are supposed to feel and what a drummer is intending to do.

Will Putney (00:47:55):

Yeah, there's a good balance in this genre of needs to be tight and competitively modern in that sense. But I like when records sound like I'm listening to a drummer still and not, oh, that's clearly just edited drum machine style production. Those feel very sterile to me and some people like them. But for the way we approach productions is we try to leave stuff if we can. When we do these types of drum sessions where they're last, we already have a lot of stuff to the grid. So it does get tricky because this style of record was designed to be tight on the grid. It's technical death metal, it's just what it is. But with some other records, we can be a little looser and especially if we're doing drums first, it's a lot easier to let the guitars play to the drums then that are a little off the beat or off the grid and looser and some records we've done.

(00:48:51):

We only fix what's broken. We don't even get into some of this beat detective stuff and how dense the editing is in this course doesn't even exist with some records. We just get takes and we're like, oh, that's good. Maybe just bump that one. Yeah, okay. That's done. And that's the super musical side of drum editing. That is fun. And you have to understand where a pocket sits and how to even out a performance without over editing. It can get tricky, but I don't know if you've noticed, but most of the people who I'm fortunate enough where over the past few years I haven't had to do a lot of the editing because I have a great engineer, Steve, but even before him, a lot of the people who edited drums for me or for machine were drummers. A big part of that was like, I'm just going to have the drummer do it.

(00:49:40):

He also understands what's correct, what sounds good incorrect. There's just the nuances to it where you have to choose what can be left alone and sound good. And then the balance between making stuff edited to be tied enough to be technical death metal in this world and stuff, you can go too far and leave records too loose and kids think it's sloppy and they don't understand that that's just how a drummer sounds. So we've lowered the bar on metal production where it has to be so tight and we just created it's producer's faults. We just created all this for ourselves. 20 years ago, somebody just should have went, no, we can't do that to the right band. And then we all wouldn't have this step anymore.

Eyal Levi (00:50:23):

The burden would've been lifted. But alas, here we are. The thing too is I think you also have to know what the limitations of the software are and so where the software's going to do dumb stuff. So that's why you had to musically understand what you're doing too. Even if you're just doing something that's a hyper technical grided record, you still have to have a musical understanding. You can't let the software decide for you. It'll make some weird decisions.

Will Putney (00:50:53):

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't even thinking of it like that, but yeah, I mean, having any of the kind of automated beat, detective style drum editing things, they can't just go on their be let off the lease. You have to comb through all of that every step of the way. Same with laying samples or mini notes or some of the face stuff. All the technical stuff will get into with editing and mix prep where it's like there is no one-stop solution that's super easy and automated. You just have to go manual and make sure everything's right by hand.

Eyal Levi (00:51:29):

Yeah, no way around it. Alright, nail the mix.com/how it's done. Let's talk about vocals. It's weird to say this because it's all so important, but I feel like in lots of ways, man, if that's not nailed, no one's going to listen to it.

Will Putney (00:51:43):

Yeah, it's what makes a band good or bad. That's what we always say at the studio. It's like the band could kick ass if the singer sucks. The band sucks and vice versa. We used to say it was drummers, but now we think it's now it's just singers. That's really what

Eyal Levi (00:51:59):

The singers,

Will Putney (00:51:59):

Yeah, I mean there is no hit song without the vocals being good

Eyal Levi (00:52:05):

Even in death metal

Will Putney (00:52:06):

And nothing connects with kids more than the right lyric, and that's like how you make songs translate and yeah, other than the pre-production stage, I think the vocal stage on records is probably the most important part.

Eyal Levi (00:52:22):

I think just like Bass, what I noticed is you get it sounding pretty mix ready. I mean, you do other stuff to it too, obviously, but it sounds pretty damn there before you ever hit record with a vocalist. I've noticed.

Will Putney (00:52:37):

Yes. It's like what we talked about before, just getting the source tones set up the right way so I can hear takes the right way. It's very important for vocals because the way I use compression and the way for screamers, the way they push into certain stuff is a part of where I can hear the voice break in a certain way. Where based on that, I'll decide on what takes I think are cool. And it's like if I came in with a much drier signal that wasn't beat up like that, I wouldn't notice certain intricacies in the vocal and stuff later if I applied that kind of processing. So I do get it pretty much there. I mean, my vocal chain plus the actual analog chain plus the few plugins on the computer, I'd say 99 out of a hundred times doesn't change in the mix. I'll add some EQ or I'll put some effects on, or I'll do the bells and whistles to it. But the actual way, it sounds like the way it's perceived, how much compression and distortions on it and stuff, it rarely even changes much. It's kind of like what that take I got is what? That's it. What sounds like, and that helps me make really, I think it helps me make the best decisions possible when I'm auditioning takes or vocals.

Eyal Levi (00:53:54):

I think also, man, vocals are such a psychological aspect. Again, making a record is psychological period, every aspect because dealing with something that's personal to all of the musicians that their whole personal identity is wrapped up in this. But vocals takes that to another level talking because the instrument is the person's body, so it's them. And so I think that the process of getting them sounding like the best version of themselves and hearing themselves that way before they really start tracking is a huge part of getting those takes that are legendary. They need to feel like a legend.

Will Putney (00:54:41):

A lot of getting what you need out of vocalist is mental, aside from a guy actually losing his voice and stuff. The difference from day to day between a guy who killed it in the studio and a guy who didn't have the greatest day we're going to go back and recut vocals and stuff. It's usually in his head. It's usually how he was feeling at the time and how that led to getting the right take out of him. And I think they're offering the crazy ones.

Eyal Levi (00:55:10):

Well, like an actor or something.

Will Putney (00:55:12):

So I try to get him a starting point that they just feel really good about where as soon as they sing or scream into the microphone, they're like, oh, this awesome. And it just immediately empowers them. They just feel like they're ready to go. And having stuff sound weird, just is that early catalyst to just start getting into their head about, it sounds weird. Is it because I sound weird? Or is it because it's this? And it's just like as soon as they start second guessing what they're doing, you start seeing the takes get worse and yeah, it's such a human instrument compared to everything else that happens in a record. You really have to cater to that in some way. And you see in the art session like,

Eyal Levi (00:55:57):

Oh man, he's such a beast.

Will Putney (00:55:58):

We keep it so fun though. And the vibe with, the way I approach that is we just have fun because CJ is a big ball of fun and he just lives, if he stays happy and just lives in that world and we're having a good time with it, he never even has a second to think about, am I doing good? It's like over before, it's not a mental thing because I'm sure he knows what we're doing and he's confident enough in his vocal abilities to not worry about it Anyway, he's a great screamer, but you can see that we don't, I don't even really give him a second to think about what's happening

Eyal Levi (00:56:35):

And don't let him get in his head just beast out.

Will Putney (00:56:38):

Part of it is like that dude gets warm and we get it because when he's in that right spot, he's one of the best. And I just want to grab all that as fast as possible. It's a fast vocal session for sure, but we saw when it was there and we just went for it.

Eyal Levi (00:56:55):

Well, I think it's good to show that sometimes things happen quickly. I don't think that how long something takes indicates

Will Putney (00:57:03):

Cutting

Eyal Levi (00:57:04):

Corners or anything. And I actually think that that's a fallacy that a lot of musicians and producers subscribe to that they feel like they need to spend longer on something so that they feel like they're actually getting worked done. When reality send, the magic just happens quickly and you have to understand it when it is happening and go with it.

Will Putney (00:57:24):

All of my favorite vocals on my records, we are usually like, oh, we got that in an hour or less for sure. My top 10, these are my favorite vocalists, these are the coolest things they've done. Those things happen fast, all of them a hundred percent because you get the guy in the right state and he's got the right tool and instrument ready to go and all the good shit happens like that. So I've had dudes singing the type of tracking process where we're supposed to be singing a line at a time and all of a sudden someone's on fire and I'm like, you're doing the whole go. You're doing this whole part now. And the way we normally take a more clinical approach to, oh, I'll just punch a little bit so you can get your breath and reset and let what in theory would make some of these screaming vocal takes better you abandoned because you're like, whatever you're doing right now, just keep doing that. Stop. And we wind up ripping through stuff fast sometimes. So

Eyal Levi (00:58:24):

It's cool. Yeah, it's a fun vocal section and one of the things that you guys do is he'll do a take that's just so damn evil and you guys will just laugh and then just keep going. It's awesome.

Will Putney (00:58:36):

There's not many that get near CJ as far as the ability to do that, so it's always hilarious to hear on a raw level like that where you're just,

Eyal Levi (00:58:46):

It's like Jesus Christ, man, what is living inside of you?

Will Putney (00:58:50):

He's wild. And it's funny because it barely matches. It doesn't match his personality either. So that's why it's hilarious to me. We're just goofing off and having fun and talking about silly stuff and then the scariest thing I've ever heard fills my ears and then we go back to making jokes and I'm like, it's just a hilarious process. I mean it's a ton of fun to do, but it's definitely like, yeah, I mean you'll see it in the course. The way you capture that lightning in a bottle moment is sort of what to look for and how to do that. I mean, I'm lucky I get a guy like cj, but it's going to happen with a lot of singers out there for people who are, it's just more of a how to keep somebody in a good mental state while they're tracking. I think that's very invaluable stuff. Even

Eyal Levi (00:59:35):

With a vocalist who's not as good as cj, if you could keep them in a good mental state, you'll get way better results.

Will Putney (00:59:41):

Quick tip, I know you can't see this, but you can see this spin drift seltzer.

Eyal Levi (00:59:46):

Yeah,

Will Putney (00:59:47):

So it's seltzer but it's with real fruit juice now. I dunno if we were just on the vocal subject. Pineapple juice is really good. A little bit of pineapple juice is really good for a screaming vocalist because it naturally helps you produce more mucus. It kind of lubes the throat off stuff. I

Eyal Levi (01:00:01):

Didn't know that

Will Putney (01:00:02):

Too much is bad because the acid, you'll start to get the acid reflux and stuff, but just a little bit of pineapple juice and makes you kind of snotty in the throat and it's good to help gargly distorted stuff, but you don't want a cup of pineapple juice that's too much.

Eyal Levi (01:00:17):

So that's just enough.

Will Putney (01:00:18):

So this is like 10% pineapple juice and it's delicious and you can just sip on it while you trek.

Eyal Levi (01:00:26):

Well, thank you. Does it taste more like pineapple hinted sparkling water? It's

Will Putney (01:00:31):

A pretty thorough pineapple taste. It does taste like you're drinking pineapple juice, obviously it's got a little watered down vibe because it's a seltzer, but they're very good and I've converted a few guys who don't even like seltzer Brian from Knock Loose the last, I fucking

Eyal Levi (01:00:46):

Love it.

Will Putney (01:00:47):

The last session we did, he hates seltzer. He calls these pineapple feedback of the bubbles. He thinks it's feedback. It's like feedback in my throat. But yeah, he had a dry day and it wasn't going great and ripped a spin drift and then we killed it. So there we go.

Eyal Levi (01:01:07):

That's what people used to use whiskey for.

Will Putney (01:01:10):

Well, if you're a straight edge guy in a hardcore band, you're

Eyal Levi (01:01:12):

Drinking south. I was going to say this is a good health conscious way to get the same result it

Will Putney (01:01:18):

Sounds like and you get hydrated because it's basically all water, which is as we know, the most important part about staying healthy while you're recording vocals. So this is a two for one deal. Yeah,

Eyal Levi (01:01:29):

I'm not so sure that the whiskey approach is the best.

Will Putney (01:01:33):

I've definitely worked with guys who could only sound good with a shot of whiskey.

Eyal Levi (01:01:36):

Oh yeah, it happens.

Will Putney (01:01:38):

I don't recommend it, but I've seen it. I've seen it work. So yeah, I don't know. I've got a few of those sad souls who need their bottles so they can get it out of 'em, but I wouldn't recommend it for the listeners.

Eyal Levi (01:01:54):

Spin Drift.

Will Putney (01:01:55):

Yeah.

Eyal Levi (01:01:55):

Alright, so let's talk about mixing and mix prep. So this mixing section is long. It's actually longer than you nail the mix. It's longer than any nail the mix. The reason I'm mentioning this is because nail the mix is awesome, but the problem with nail the mix just inherently built into nail the mix is the format limitations. We've got a day so there's only so far we can go with certain things like sure we could take two or three days but nail the mix. We book a day and it's what we can get done in that amount of time and hopefully we can be as thorough as possible, but there's no way to possibly talk about everything in that amount of time with someone who is very intricate with their mixes. You're knock loose nail. The mix is great. I thought it was fantastic. But this is an order of magnitude deeper than any nail, the mix mixing section. I'm saying that for people who have been subscribed to nail the mix forever and are like, cool I love Will, but I already saw is nail the mix. Why do I need to see this? Well, first of all, the automation section is eight hours long. The automation section alone is the length of an entire nail, the mix for starters.

Will Putney (01:03:14):

Sorry. That's crazy.

Eyal Levi (01:03:16):

No, thank you. Thank you. Because actually that's something that it nailed the mix we've been asked for more of, but again, because of the limitations on time, by the time it gets to automation, there's two hours left. It is what it is.

Will Putney (01:03:35):

Honestly, a lot of my time spent mixing is in the automation stage and it's like I do really like what we did with the knock loose nail the mix, but

Eyal Levi (01:03:44):

It was great.

Will Putney (01:03:45):

Also picked a song that was very simple that didn't require a ton of automation and then that genre naturally is a living breeding live animal and needs a little less in that sense compared to a record like a art record. So I knew that going into ITAR wasn't going to be able to show this side of what we really do to that extent. So we spent a lot of time on some cool global stuff with the not glue nail mix, which I think was really valuable too. And we do cover all that too. But then yeah, the detail of technical metal mixing, it might be one of the more detailed styles of music in that sense. The amount of work that you would actually put into the automation side of things on these types of records, for me, they're the most intense ones and it's why it's part of the main reason why we picked this band to actually do this course is because I know how crazy these mixes are. And I was like, well this is the final level shit. If I could show how I really worked through a track like this, this is about as advanced as it gets in that sense.

Eyal Levi (01:04:53):

Which by the way, let me just add that we've included the loose session as a bonus.

Will Putney (01:04:59):

Oh, that's cool.

Eyal Levi (01:05:00):

So for people who want to check that out. So the thing about Nail the mix too, where this is different, much like my Monument bootcamp where we were rerecording a song that had already been released. So with Nail the Mix there isn't the pressure on the mixer to be doing a mix that's going to be released. It already happened. So obviously they want to do a good job because we're paying them and not just that they're professionals so they don't want to do a bad job and also they're on camera so they don't want to do a bad job for personal pride reasons obviously. But in this scenario you're actually mixing it in real life. This shit hadn't been released yet, so there was a different kind of pressure on the situation than nail the mix.

Will Putney (01:05:46):

It definitely took a bit of confidence to go, well we're just going, this is just kind of what it's going to be when we're done here. I'm not really going back on this. And I did have a deadline for it and everything. So yeah, after the session we did one recall and I tweaked some mastering stuff and it was done.

Eyal Levi (01:06:07):

So it's the real thing. Yeah,

Will Putney (01:06:08):

It's pretty much the real thing I did. I want to be transparent because I like being, I want people to know exactly what they get. But all of the work that went into this mix minus there was one recall with some global tweaks and a final mastering adjustment is from what you saw in this course. And then that happened and then that's the final song. So I think a few days after you guys left the IR got back to me and I made that one little change and then that song was done. So it really actually happened like this, which was cool, mean when I signed up to do this, I even told you I don't actually know where this goes. And we had a deadline, Nick, who did a great job filming all this was only out here for

Eyal Levi (01:07:01):

Shout out to Nick Palata Your Beast.

Will Putney (01:07:03):

He was out here with a flight booked and everyone was going home for the holidays and stuff and it was like it kind of had to get done. And I even told you like, Hey man, I don't know where this ends. I don't know if I'm going to get, because sometimes I'll sit down and I'll dial up a mix that I think kicks ass in a couple hours and sometimes it'll take me a week.

Eyal Levi (01:07:21):

I think this took you three days, right? Yeah,

Will Putney (01:07:24):

Somewhere in between an hour and a week. So it worked out and we got it done. But yeah, definitely, I played with it for a couple days and on day two I'm like, God damn it, I don't even know if I'm going to pull this off yet. I'm not stoked on the mix yet. I was going through it and I, I've made a lot of IR records that all have different, the production's a bit different from record to record and there's a lot of pressure on making sure I do as good as I did when I had a whole doing a single is annoying because when you're doing a full record with a band, I've done four with ir, now you got 6, 7, 8 weeks to tweak and do the minor things and this was like crash course stuff. And now I'm sitting down to a mix with a band that's very important to me whose productions I've slaved over for literally months in the past. And I'm like, oh cool, I got three days to make this sound as good as some of those. So it is very challenging, but I really threw everything I could at it to try to accomplish that. And I'm stoked with the way it came out. I'm actually just shocked I was able to get it done.

Eyal Levi (01:08:34):

I'm not shocked. The thing too, just to bring this back again to how it's different than now the mix and now the mix again because somebody is already doing something that they did once, even if they're going from scratch on now, the mix, they already did it once. And so there isn't the pressure there. You don't get to see the back and forth of when they get to a place, maybe they're not happy with it. They need to retool it. And the reason I'm bringing that up is because a lot of people who are learning how to mix will mix something and then hate it and then go back to the beginning and think that there's something wrong with them when in reality that's something that every mixer goes through. Maybe not on every single mix they ever do, but that's a common thing to get to a certain point and then be like, no, got to rethink how this is structured or something. And yeah, that's a common thing.

Will Putney (01:09:32):

It happens to me, that's part of it all the time. All the time. And I'd say three out of four mixes, I don't get it going on the first go. I'm like, I got to come back and hear it the next day and then hate it and go, this sucks. What did I do wrong? How do I, and then start to backtrack more and stuff. I am guilty of it all the time. The most common thing I do is I get my gain staging wrong. I still get my gain staging wrong where, I mean I have a lot of levels to it with the setup that I have and how I mix, but I'll be fighting it for an hour and then I'm like, I'm hitting something too hard and it's shitty and blown up now and I got to figure out why. And then it's like this fight to back off some of the things and see where it got bad, but it happens to me all the time and it happened to me since the first mix I've ever done and it happened to me literally yesterday. So it's definitely, it's very rare. You just turn all the faders up and it's perfect. And I think it's pretty silly to think that when you sit down to do a mix every time that that's going to happen. That's crazy.

Eyal Levi (01:10:43):

Yeah, that's the exception. So, alright, I want to wrap this up real quick. I just want to tell people what they get with this. So again, go to nail the mix.com/how it's done. This closes on November 2nd and the way we run our courses at M is they open and then they close. And the reason we do that is because we like to run our courses the way that you would like say you were taking a class at a school where everybody goes at the same pace, only a section per week. The reason we do that is because if we were to release it all at once, you motherfuckers would binge it and you wouldn't get anything out of it because our courses have way too much info in them and then you'd wonder why you didn't get any better and you'd get mad at us.

(01:11:38):

And we actually want people to improve from these. And we've just seen, if we put it all out at once, people will skip to the cool shit at the end. They won't actually go through it and incorporate everything every step along the way and really, really take it in. So by doing it like this, not only are you forced to take it slow, but you also have the opportunity to interact with the community at the same time who are all going through the same things. So if it was open all year round, you could just get it like in March and somebody in July and somebody now you're not going to have peers going through it at the exact same time to bounce off of having people to bounce stuff off of and to talk to while you're working on this kind of stuff is super important, especially for those of you who are not working in a studio or are not in a city with a bunch of peers or whatever.

(01:12:34):

And this internet is all you have for communication with other people who are also trying to do this. So that said, how it's done Includes is over 75 videos, a bunch of PDFs to go along with it. Multitracks raw multitracks for both songs. That includes the samples and the DI's logic sessions for each will's tonality, presets that are used in the songs. Guitar and bass tab drum mid, there's going to be now for the first, if you're listening to this in 2022, this doesn't count. This only counts for the 2021 release. Will's going to do six weekly q and as in the private group for an hour. So that means that those of you who are taking the course can ask Will about stuff in the course. And of course that means that there's a private Facebook group just for people who got the course.

(01:13:29):

This is cool. We're doing a nail the mix style mix poll with the th artist murder track with a ridiculous and I mean ridiculous prize package. I'm going to just read you off some of these prizes. So there's a pair of one fifteens from Amon Universal Audio Apollo Solo Creation Audio labs, MW one snare, weight Brass number five with Pro Prolo, sorry, Perro Labs Rouser Tune Track is giving us SD three and Easy Drummer Avius Audio. PSPE 27 sure is giving us some mics like 57, 57 lg, some earbuds. Ernie Ball donated something they're calling the Player Pack, which just a bunch of cool guitar stuff, $500 gift card from ever Tune STL Tone Hub will Putney's Sooth two, an Origin Effects Cali 76 and the Fab Filter Mastering bundle. So somebody is walking away with a sick fucking prize, not just that, it's ridiculous. That's like what,

Will Putney (01:14:32):

Six seven grand. And so that's the craziest prize pack. That's awesome,

Eyal Levi (01:14:36):

Dude. And the am

Will Putney (01:14:37):

Can I enter the contest?

Eyal Levi (01:14:41):

Well you've already got some Amon.

Will Putney (01:14:42):

Yeah, but I got to be room, let me see if I can beat myself. Yeah, damn.

Eyal Levi (01:14:47):

Yeah, it's a ridiculous prize package. And also this, what I'm about to read actually is for everybody. So everybody will get discounts at the Ever Tune online store from Creation Auto Labs, from Origin Effects STL tones. There's a special deal actually on Will's plugin, empirical labs, snare way, and Avius audio that's all listed on the site inside of the members area for the course. Of course, like I said before, you get Will's knock loose session, which is really, really great. And that does include the knock loose multi-tracks. And just because we love you guys, we're throwing in three months of URM enhanced. So why that's good is because while this course is super comprehensive, it's not like a tutorial, this isn't like the be all end all course on how to tune drums or some shit like that. It includes tuning drums, but this is more about capturing will's process and how will does things, it's not a tutorial, it's more of a masterclass, if that makes sense.

(01:15:54):

So there's some things which you might want to know more about. Very, very detailed techniques on tuning drums. Well that's why you want our URM enhanced library. We have that kind of stuff. There's incredible use of compressors in this course, but if you want to go even deeper than that, go into our FastTrack library. So if you use them together, use the fast tracks as a supplement to all the great info and order of operations and big picture stuff you get from Will's course. That's how it's done. So keep in mind all the tactics, tips, tricks in the world aren't going to do shit for you if you don't have a bigger picture to tie them all together with. So it's important to get both that overview on how to approach an entire project and then also have a bag of tricks that you can have at your disposal for whenever you do have a problem you need to solve will. Yeah.

Will Putney (01:16:55):

Cool.

Eyal Levi (01:16:56):

That was improvised too.

Will Putney (01:16:58):

That was pretty good. Thank you. It's like you've done this before,

Eyal Levi (01:17:01):

Once or twice,

Will Putney (01:17:03):

Like we had said before, this is just how I work, this is how I make records and there is no one-stop shop for any of this stuff. So whatever you can do to further your education and learn from different people and pick up different techniques. I mean, it's a lot of how I learned stuff was just figuring out how other people do things too that aren't me. And even to this day I still get outside mixes that come in and I'm like, this is cool. How did he do that? And then I learned something new. So there's a never ending quest to get better and pick up new tricks and tips from people. So continuing to do that, not just for me, but anywhere is the way you move forward.

Eyal Levi (01:17:46):

And I think that we all know of that stereotype of the music person or the audio person who has gotten older and stagnated and maybe they were good 10 years ago or 15 years ago or prominent in their scene, but they kind of just leveled off. You see that a lot with bands that had some potential at some point, or a producer who just got stuck in a certain thing and then just never went past that point. And this is not a knock on anybody more. What I'm saying is what I've noticed in common between those types is that at some point they stopped being curious about how to keep pushing it further and they stopped being interested in, oh, what's that guy doing? Oh, that dude's fucking awesome. What's going on there? What's this latest technique that seems to be what's going around or whatever. What the fuck is this sooth plugin everybody's talking about people who care stay current and are always trying to learn and realize that the path is never over, never ends.

Will Putney (01:18:57):

That's true.

Eyal Levi (01:18:58):

That's

Will Putney (01:18:59):

Very true.

Eyal Levi (01:19:00):

Will, thank you.

Will Putney (01:19:01):

Cool. Thanks man. Appreciate it as always. And

Eyal Levi (01:19:04):

Yeah,

Will Putney (01:19:05):

Bye. My course. It's good.

Eyal Levi (01:19:08):

It's really fucking good. Cool. Alright, nail the mix.com/how it's done. Thanks for listening guys. Okay, then another Uur M podcast episode in the bag. Please remember to share our episodes with your friends as well as post them to your Facebook, Instagram, or any social media you use. Please tag me at al levy URM audio and of course please tag my guests as well. Till next time, happy mixing. You've been listening to the Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast. To ask us questions, make suggestions and interact, visit URM Academy and press the podcast link today.