BRIAN SLAGEL: Getting Signed to Metal Blade, The Psychology of Artists, and Biggest Band Mistakes

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, and now your host, Eyal Levi.

Speaker 2 (00:00:08):

Welcome to the URM podcast. Thank you so much for being here. It's crazy to think that we're now on our fifth year, but it's true, and it's only because of you, the listeners. And if you'd like to see us stick around for another five years, there are a few simple things that you can do that would really, really help us out and I would be endlessly appreciative. Number one, share our episodes with your friends. If you get something out of these episodes, I'm sure they will too. So please share us with your friends. Number two, post our episodes on your Facebook and Instagram and tag me and our guests too. My Instagram is at al Levi urm audio. And let me just let you know that we love seeing ourselves tagged in these posts. Who knows, we might even respond. And number three, leave us reviews and five stars please anywhere you can.

(00:01:03):

We especially love iTunes reviews. Once again, I want to thank you all for the years and years of loyalty. I just want you to know that we will never, ever charge you for this podcast, and I will always work as hard as possible to improve the episodes in every single way possible. All I ask in return is a share post and a tag. Now let's get on with it. Hello everybody. Welcome to the URM podcast. My guest today has already been on the podcast once, episode number 1 57. His name is Brian Slagel. He's the founder and CEO of Metal Blade Records. This dude is a complete legend. Last time he came on it was to promote his book for the sake of heaviness, but it's been a few years and I wanted to talk to him again. I mean, this is the dude who started Metal Blade in the early eighties in his garage and basically helped discover Slayer and Metallica. And if you don't know Metal Blade, well, you've been living under a rock because they're home to some of the biggest names of metal such as Amman, Marth, behemoth, the Black Dahlia, murder, cannibal, corpse, gore, and countless others. I'll stop talking. I welcome Brian Slagel back to the URM podcast, Brian Slagel. Welcome back to the URM podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:02:17):

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:02:17):

I'm just curious, how is life at Metal Blade during all this and how is life for you?

Speaker 3 (00:02:25):

Interesting as it is with everybody, I think

Speaker 2 (00:02:27):

I'm sure

Speaker 3 (00:02:28):

Surprisingly metal blades doing okay. We were, obviously, everybody was unsure as to what was going to happen when going into all this stuff, and we were really concerned about our European operation because they shut down everything. We're associated with Sony in Europe and our plant is in northern France, next to Spain and Italy and all that stuff. So we were shut down completely for about a month with zero sales, which was not good, but the German government did help us out quite a bit. And then once open back up again over there, sales have skyrocketed. In Europe, it's predominantly physical still, so it's interesting that it's done so well. We're hanging in there in the states too. We're doing what we can. I mean, we're lucky that we have an extensive catalog, so that helps us with the streaming stuff. And we're also doing a lot of reissue and vinyl and anything we can on catalog stuff, so we're hanging in there. Obviously very concerned about the bands. They're not able to tour or anything obviously until at least the early part is 2021 and who knows beyond that. So we're doing what we can to help them out and trying to get them doing stuff so they can sell their merchandise, but we're hanging in there as best as we all can.

Speaker 2 (00:03:48):

Are you finding that you need to help manage their mental state more than usual?

Speaker 3 (00:03:55):

Yeah, some of them for sure. I've talked to everybody. I mean, I think for the most part, most of them are doing pretty well, but I've definitely had a couple friends and artists who are, especially those on the East coast in the New York area where it was really terrible. Yeah, they're definitely struggling for sure. I've played a dime store psychologist a few times, but

Speaker 2 (00:04:19):

Yeah, it's interesting because once this hit, I went into overdrive on podcasts and started doing them three or four times a week as opposed to once. And so I've talked to a lot of people since March and I've noticed that there's two camps, there's the one camp that are being totally entrepreneurial. This is an opportunity, it changed my plans, but I'm going to make new plans and make the best of it. So there's that category of artists and producers. And then I'm noticing this other category where it's doomsday and I feel like there's seems to be no middle ground between it, but I've noticed that even though it is true that this sucks for everybody equally, the ones that are kind of confronting it head on, they're doing pretty okay overall, especially mixers.

Speaker 3 (00:05:14):

Yeah, I think certainly look, everybody's in the studio recording now. They don't have anything else to do. So yeah, that sort of stuff I know is people are producers and engineers and mixers are all doing pretty well now. And it depends on the bands. I mean, we are pretty lucky on some of our larger bands. Some of the main guys have significant others that are luckily still employed, so that's a big help for them.

Speaker 2 (00:05:38):

That helps. So kind of back to the local days.

Speaker 3 (00:05:41):

And then there's a couple bands that in all honesty have been working for a long, long time nonstop, and they're just using this as like, wow, we actually get to have a real break and just kind of chill out and relax for a little while. So everybody's hanging there. I think the biggest problem that all of us face is just the uncertainty of when things are going to get back to somewhat normal, especially in the concert world, really. No, there's no clue on that and how that's going to happen, who's going to be the promoters, what are going to be the venues, all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:06:19):

Do you have a prediction?

Speaker 3 (00:06:20):

I wish I did. I'm concerned. I'm especially concerned for independent venues, which are struggling mightily and a lot have already gone under. I think there's a prevailing hope between a lot of people I talk to in the business that as far as the live shows go, that we're hopeful that we might see the return of local promoters or regional promoters, which we saw in the nineties. So in the northeast you'd have an independent promoter that's doing shows and having promoting them at his smaller venues and stuff, or her smaller venues. So we'll see. I mean, that's what we're hoping, but it's so hard to tell at this point.

Speaker 2 (00:07:01):

What do you think of these ideas like the herd immunity fest where, you know what I'm talking about that a bunch of it's a new metal. Bands basically are playing a festival I think in Wisconsin next week or something. Have you heard about that?

Speaker 3 (00:07:21):

Yeah. I'm wondering though, because there's been a few of those Sturgis, for example, where they were going to do some of these things and then they just don't ever happen or they fizzle out or it's difficult to do any of that stuff. Even the streaming stuff is crazy. So I don't know until we see something happen and how it works, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (00:07:42):

Yeah, I wouldn't feel comfortable going to one of those shows.

Speaker 3 (00:07:46):

Yeah, I think a lot of people right now on any level of sporting event, anything on a large scale is a little scary. I mean, there's a million different research on this thing and all this stuff, but one thing that a lot of the doctors tend to agree is that it's not easily transferable for the most part, but they're finding that there are super, super people, I guess they call them, that can transmit this to many people. So clearly if you have a large crowd, the odds of that happening are pretty bad. So I think I, anybody's a little freaked out about being in a large crowd at the present time.

Speaker 2 (00:08:24):

Yeah, I'm not even into being in a small crowd at the present time.

Speaker 3 (00:08:31):

Right. I think that's pretty much everybody's vibe at this point. Stay away.

Speaker 2 (00:08:36):

I would hope so. What about release schedules? I remember that when this first started, some bands and movies too delayed their releases. The Bond movie got pushed. It was going to come out, I think the 8th of April. It got moved to November. The Christopher Nolan movie got moved back. I realize we're in a different industry, but I know that some album releases got pushed back and then some went forward and bands that typically do a lot better didn't do as well. And I know that the theory is that nobody was interested in buying records at that point in time. It's not like those bands suddenly lost 75% of their popularity overnight. Have you guys delayed your release schedules at all or has that played in

Speaker 3 (00:09:28):

A little bit? We had, so right when everything started shutting now a black dollar murder record coming out and we really couldn't stop it. Everything was pretty much set in motion. It's too late, too late, and the band wanted to put it out. So it did pretty well. The D two C did pretty much what we did on the last one, which were really big numbers. The overall numbers were certainly down just because of the climate, but their chart numbers were huge. And also I was talking to Trevor lead singer from Black Dahlia, and he was saying in a weird way, it wasn't bad on a couple levels where he had so much time to do press because normally you, you're running around, you're getting a tour together, you're doing all this.

(00:10:10):

He had nothing to do but sit at home and do press. So he did a ton of press and a lot of things. So whereas maybe the numbers on that record weren't what they were normally, but they were pretty close. But I think just the overall branding of the situation and kind of the way they took advantage of it, hopefully in the long run we'll help them. And we put out a few other things that did surprisingly well too, especially chart numbers in Germany, we put out an Igor record and a Sir un record. I mean nothing huge, but some bands that have a little bit of a name and all those records did actually really, really well. So we've done some reissues, like I said, we did a bunch of martial fate reissues and King Diamond and stuff that did really well, but we did have to delay a few things. We had a fate ho six feet under and armored Saint albums coming out, all of which we delayed. They were going to be out summertime ish, and we moved them to the fall. But those aren't too effective in terms of touring because those bands don't do a lot of touring.

(00:11:10):

So we kind of felt comfortable doing that. But there's a couple other bands that we're trying to get records out in 2020 that clearly they can't because the tour component is too big a part of it. So that's move to next year, which is going to be crazy.

Speaker 2 (00:11:24):

I could see how Black Dahlia murder could release a record and still do fine in this time period. They have that audience and that credibility.

Speaker 3 (00:11:34):

Oh, sorry. And it was early too. It was I think in March, so it was kind of before things got spread out too long and everything else, so it did. Okay.

Speaker 2 (00:11:43):

Can we talk about Igor for a second?

Speaker 3 (00:11:45):

Sure.

Speaker 2 (00:11:45):

Man. First of all, how did you guys find that? And second of all, I think that's the most inventive stuff I've heard since Mr. Bungle in the nineties. It's insane.

Speaker 3 (00:11:58):

Yeah, so they're kind of part of this interesting scene called Synth Wave, and they're not particularly really into that, but that's kind of this bands like Perturbed and Dance with the Dead who are super cool, and it's just this mixture of electronic EDM style with metal. And Igor is a little bit different. They have some of that, and the main guy in the band is a dj, but they have an actual band so to speak, and they're doing some really interesting things and it's so different that you don't know when you do something that different, you're not really sure what the response is going to be. It could go anywhere from people thinking it's really cool to a lot of people saying, I'm not into this, but we found, or both, or both. But we found that band almost universally. The response was incredible. I was even quite honestly blown away about how positive it was, especially in the metal community. And they've gone on and done a bunch of cool stuff. Another stamp of Approval Corps grinder sang track on the new record, which

Speaker 2 (00:13:00):

That was so cool.

Speaker 3 (00:13:01):

Certainly helps. And it was incredible. I never would've thought something that that would really work as well as it did, but it was great. He had a great time doing it. And yeah, they're a really interesting band because it's so hard these days to find things that are unique and different, but they're definitely doing something very unique and very different and the response so far has been awesome. So we're super happy with them,

Speaker 2 (00:13:23):

Man. What I loved about that course, grinder Track two was the guitars weren't even full out, high gain, heavy ass guitars. It was almost like a rock tone, but it was still just insanely heavy.

Speaker 3 (00:13:38):

It worked. It really worked and it was just such a cool thing. So yeah, they're a fun band, but another record that kind of came out in the beginning of all this stuff, but it did really well. And now I think the hard part is trying to keep people getting their attention still with everything else going on, obviously.

Speaker 2 (00:13:56):

How do you come across something like that and say, I think I'm going to give this a shot. Then you got the business side to consider as well, and that's pure art.

Speaker 3 (00:14:06):

Yeah, well, we had it. The staff actually found that band and brought it to me and they were really into it. There was a really great underground buzz. The guy in the band was really cool, really wanted to be on metal blades, so I was like, yeah, let's take a shot. It's interesting, and I love taking risks. I love signing bands that you would never think that we would sign. We could have done a lot of that over the years trying to bend the boundaries of metal, I guess. So I was into it, but I was also a little unsure of what the reaction was going to be like I mentioned earlier. But it's been incredible so far. So yeah, that was, our staff did a great job flushing that one out.

Speaker 2 (00:14:50):

You know what? I think it is lots of times when you get an artist that's that heavily into electronic, when they start mixing metal, the metal is kind of almost like an afterthought. Whereas in Igor's case, it's definitely not an afterthought. It's legit metal combined with legit electronics and whatever the hell else gets thrown in there, but it's all legit. That's the thing about it. That's kind of why I compare it to Mr. Bungle because whenever they blended styles, everything was done exactly right for the style. Whereas a lot of bands that blends styles, they kind of half-ass things here and there. They'll be really good at the metal part and then they'll throw in Aladdin part, but it'll be a half-ass ladin part. But Bungle everything was a hundred percent legit. And with Igor, I'm hearing everything a hundred percent legit, which is why I think that every single person I know who's heard it, whether or not it's their style of music, they think it's incredible. And the videos too.

Speaker 3 (00:15:54):

Yeah, a hundred percent. And that guy's a real artist and he's got an amazing background of influences on music that he's really into and that whole thing works really well. So that's a fun one for sure. And their live experience too is really cool too.

Speaker 2 (00:16:09):

What's the story with the videos? Because those seem high dollar, high concept.

Speaker 3 (00:16:15):

Definitely high concept, but we found, and they've got some guys that they work with that are able to do this for pretty inexpensive, so they're not super expensive videos. You find a lot of like-minded art people that, especially we've done this with videos over the course of time and we had the first video that the guy that did 300, the movie 300 did was a l board of video. We've had other video directors who they're kind of way into movies and TV is through music video. So you see a lot of that.

Speaker 2 (00:16:47):

Okay, me and my director of marketing were looking at that and we were like, this is not just a friend of theirs with a video camera. Whoever's working on this knows exactly what they're doing and is probably doing it because he or she loves the music, not even close to amateur or sometimes metal videos aren't the highest quality videos. This is as good as anything you would see out of a pop hide dollar video. So we figured there was some sort of a seriously pro crew on that

Speaker 3 (00:17:29):

And the people doing it are super into it. So all that stuff helps. Anytime people are really into what they're doing, it's going to show. I think art-wise

Speaker 2 (00:17:37):

It's impressive, man. On that topic, I don't know if we talked about this before, but this is something that always comes up and I'm sure you've been asked this a million times, but I have to ask, when you're looking for a band, how normal is it for it to just show up on the doorstep and you're good to go as opposed to getting filtered through trusted sources?

Speaker 3 (00:18:04):

So it's changed a lot over the years, obviously I would say even back to the early days, 99% of the bands we signed usually come from somebody. Obviously in the first few three years, people are just sending me tapes, what I was doing it myself and I was just listening to everything and we were signing stuff from that. But since then, it really comes to, there's so many bands out there and so many different ways to get it. Rarely if would somebody would give me a demo at a show or just cold send it in that we would work with it most of the time. And this is what I tell bands now too, it's like if you want to get signed or you want to get noticed or even just get an audience, where we find out about bands are from local promoters, people who do podcasts, people who do magazines, radio, anything that's within the industry usually is how we find out about Ban Somebody we know in whatever city it is around the world. We'll hear a ban and know them because we work with them on whatever level record store, it could be anything. And they'll say, Hey, you should check out this band. And that's really where we hear stuff. And then once we do somebody in the company checks it out and then it kind of goes, everybody listens to it and everybody's into it. It lands on my desk and I'll say kind of yay or nay. So that's more or less the process. It's been that way for quite a while now.

Speaker 2 (00:19:23):

The reason I'm bringing this up is that even though it's been brought up a lot, we have a lot of new listeners and a lot of younger people who may not know this already. And the evidence I have is just from watching our online communities and then also still getting hit up all the time to check out people's music. And when I get the chance, I try to tell them that that's not the way to go about it, that just about every single band I've ever worked with had on nail the mix known they got noticed because of what they were doing on their own first. There's a couple outliers for sure, but that's generally, if there was to be a set path, I think that would be the path.

Speaker 3 (00:20:10):

Yeah, a hundred percent. And it's been that way for a long time. I mean it has to happen. I think if it's going to happen, it has to happen as organically as possible and that's usually the most successful bands are, and you just kind of come from the ground up because it used to be that there was LA had a scene or San Francisco had a scene, or Sweden had a scene or whatever it was. But those sort of things in the new world don't really exist anymore. Bands are coming from everywhere and there's not really a specific area that has a scene anymore. So that's why it's even more important to organically do things and like you mentioned, just have somebody wherever you're at, get into it somehow.

Speaker 2 (00:20:46):

My theory as to why there aren't scenes, I mean there's a number of factors. So I've thought about this is that back in the day, it was virtually impossible to have a band with people outside of your immediate area. Whereas, and I remember that when I was trying to get my band together, it was close to impossible to find anybody good enough in Atlanta. So I had to get Kevin Talley from Maryland, I had to get Amal from Alabama. I had to do what people just do normally now. But I think because of that, because so many bands have people from so many different geographical areas, it doesn't come together into a scene like the Bay Area where people are just swapping in and out of bands, always playing with each other. Dudes have been in three of the famous bands and you don't see that anymore. I think for that reason.

Speaker 3 (00:21:43):

And the internet too, you have the internet and the availability to find people from other parts of the world to be in a band before it's just if you were in LA you just had to find the best players in LA for a weird way. I think that worked for a while because what would eventually happen in a lot of these cities were the best players would end up finally in the same band and that would make them really good.

Speaker 2 (00:22:03):

The cream rises to the top kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (00:22:05):

Now a lot of times you'll find there'll be one really great guy in a band and then the rest of the guys aren't all that good. So it's a little tricky sometimes

Speaker 2 (00:22:14):

Since you don't have scenes to look at. I guess that makes it that much more important to have the staff and other people filter it through because you can't just say, alright, let's look at la. What are the top drawing bands in LA or the bands that have the most going on. It's so spread out

Speaker 3 (00:22:34):

And it's a worldwide thing now, just bands from everywhere and we just don't physically have time to listen to everything that even we try to listen to everything that people turn us onto. But it's difficult usually if it comes from a couple of different people or a trusted source somewhere and said, Hey, we heard about this band from somewhere, you guys check it out, then that's what we try to do.

Speaker 2 (00:22:58):

So you know how investors will often say that they're not investing in a company, they're investing in the founder. That's kind of a common thing I've heard from a lot of venture capitalists and people who do that sort of thing. It's less about whether or not that one company it's going to take off anybody's guess and more because they believe that that person is going to do something amazing at some point. Do you kind of look at it that way? What level, how much is it what this band is doing now versus what you think the brains in the band will be able to do in the future?

Speaker 3 (00:23:35):

Well, I mean it's a little bit different for me because it's twofold. Number one, people ask me, what do you look for in a band? Really there isn't anything I say. It's just if I listen to something, I like it and I just, it's a gut feeling there. That being said, you do have to talk to the people in the band and make sure they're cool and that they have the right head on their shoulders and they're into it for all the right reasons. So it's a little bit of both. I mean, I think if we hear something that we really like, unless we talk to the band and they're really not together, we would work with them. But you want to have that balance of working with good people because we're really lucky right now between the staff that we have and all the bands we have, everybody gets along, the managers. It's a really good situation now where it took a long time to build this and I think even just in the metal community, it took a long time to get there, but now everything's really good and you don't want to upset the apple cart, so to speak, by working with a difficult artist. But there's very few of those these days. But every once in a while you'll come across somebody that you'll like what they're doing and you'll talk to guys in the band and be like, they might not have the right perspective on things.

Speaker 2 (00:24:45):

I've heard a lot, and I want to know if you think this is true, that back in the eighties people tolerated much more bullshit. There was a lot more money to be made. So basically they were making enough money to put up with oversized egos. But then again, when I talk to people who were around back then and they talk about the bands that were doing great, always, even if they were nuts, they always had the right kind of vision and the right kind of band members. Do you think that that's a myth or true that people will tolerate less bullshit now than before?

Speaker 3 (00:25:25):

I think it's a couple things. I think that bands know and people know a little bit more how to act. It's become more of a business, so you can't get away with being a crazy partier or just difficult to deal with because eventually people will not want to deal with you. So I think that's a lot less now than it was back then. And I just think it was just bands and the scene growing up. Some people just had certain attitudes about things and they felt that they were going to, they were deservedly going to be where they were. Some of it worked out, some of it didn't. I personally never really, we had the opportunity a few times to work with some bands that I knew were going to be difficult. So I learned early on that that's not really, it's kind of a waste of everybody's time. So we kind of let some of those bands go somewhere else. Just for me personally, the headache's not worth it. Now other people, I mean I talk to managers and labels all the time who actually like to work with that sort of stuff. It's a challenge for them and they really like the artists, so to each his own, but it's way less now than it was back then. That's for sure.

Speaker 2 (00:26:35):

I call it the stress to money ratio. At what point is the stress not worth the money of dealing with a certain situation?

Speaker 3 (00:26:45):

100%.

Speaker 2 (00:26:46):

I was reading a book about narcissism, a couple books about it lately. Just I got curious about the topic. It was saying that there's a healthy amount that an artist or anybody successful needs because they need to be confident enough to be able to put their stuff out there. Then at the same time, it goes too far, it becomes a mental illness, it's pathological and needs serious treatment, and it's kind of a spectrum like anything else. But it's an interesting balance from what I read. Where do you the sweet spot is for an artist being confident but not feeling entitled?

Speaker 3 (00:27:26):

That's a difficult one. I think for the most part, and this isn't just bands that we work with, I think this is in the metal scene. I mean, everybody here is really into the music, and we all kind of grew up watching these bands from the seventies, eight eighties that we loved. And most of them start out as fans and continue to remain fans. So I think that keeps people's feet on the ground a little bit more than it used to be. But there is that fun line I've read. One thing I did early on when I was learning how to run a label I guess and deal with people was I couldn't understand why some people would react a certain way to a certain situation. So

Speaker 2 (00:28:06):

What do you mean?

Speaker 3 (00:28:07):

Well, you would have you talk to a band and say, Hey, what about this or that? And they would have a really weird view of what they wanted to do. And there were always a lot of friction sometimes in between bands. And so I read a lot of psychological books just to kind of deal with, okay, if this situation is happening and this person is reacting to it this way, why is that and how can you guide it to where it needs to be? And that was really helpful for me because dealing with a lot of look, I mean, look, in all honesty, a lot of metal kids come from not the best backgrounds. So you've got some, and this is the outlet that clearly makes them all part of the family that we are, but I learned a lot from that. And narcissism is a big part of that too. And you're right, you have to have the confidence to do it, but you also still have to remain with your feet on the ground as much as possible. And I think for the most part, like I said, it's that way now. I can't think of too many artists that in the metal world now that are too out of control on that.

Speaker 2 (00:29:08):

Was that a huge learning curve for you when you decided that I got to figure this shit out? These fuckers are crazy.

Speaker 3 (00:29:18):

Oh, massively. And even just in business, because you're dealing with people in business and not really understanding why they're reacting or why they're doing things in a certain way and getting some sort of knowledge about that stuff was really helpful. Then you understand why people are acting and reacting the way they are. And like I said, it makes it a lot easier for you to figure out what's going on than before. It's like, well, what do you mean you're not going to do that tour? That tour is the best tour you could ask for. What are you talking about? Then you kind of figure it, oh, okay, now I see why they don't want to do it.

Speaker 2 (00:29:48):

And I remember one thing that used to come up a lot was when I was producing and even when I was in my band, I was helping people get placed in bands. Like for instance, a band would lose a lead guitar player. And just because I know a lot of great lead guitar players, they'd come to me and would ask if I knew anybody who could leave a local band or something. For instance, I help Ryan Knight get into ais and then as you know, he went on to Black Dahlia. There's lots of examples like that where I introduced a band to somebody who was too good to be in a local band. But something that came up often, often enough for me to mention it was that most of the time the dos in the local bands didn't go for it because they were too scared to disappoint their friends. And that blew my mind. I could not, that was one of the reasons I started reading about this stuff too. It just did not make sense to me that, man, you practice eight hours a day, you have been for 10 years, you're incredible. You want to do this for real. I just got you a gig with a band that's doing it for real and it's on nuclear blast or metal blade or something like that, and you're turning it down because you don't want to disappoint your high school friends. That's craziness.

Speaker 3 (00:31:12):

Yeah, we see a lot of that and that's, I think one reason you don't see more bands become more successful quickly because there's a point in time where if you're in a band and you start out and you get a little bit of success, you kind of have to make that commitment to, I want to do this. I want to go out and tour. I don't care if I have sleep on somebody's floors. And back in the early eighties when all this started when I was starting out or Metallica or Slayer, on and on and on, we all just loved the music and you kind of just didn't care about anything other than your love of the music. And we just wanted to do this because we love the music so much. Everything else, forget girlfriends, forget family, forget your high school friends. Forget anything.

(00:31:53):

You just have this laser focus on what you want to do because you love the music so much. And now obviously you get the internet and a lot of other stuff out there, but now I think a lot of bands lose that focus or they get pulled in a lot of different directions because there's so many different things you see and you hear that you just don't have that laser focus and drive that a lot of us had back in the eighties, which is again, one of the bigger reasons why I think that the scene as big and as well doing hasn't gone farther than it could potentially

Speaker 2 (00:32:28):

Actually was reading Duff MCC Kagan's book, it brought up something really, really similar that I remember from a Slipknot documentary that came out like 15 years ago. Have you read Duff's book?

Speaker 3 (00:32:39):

Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 2 (00:32:40):

So you know how he's talking about how they kicked out a couple members because they just were more comfortable at home and no matter how nuts their lifestyle was, everybody was in it for the same exact reasons. It's crazy enough that they jelled musically, but even crazier that five people with the exact same goal found each other. And then I remember watching that Slipknot documentary from 2005 or 2004 where they were talking about what was different about them than the other bands, and they said that nobody in the band wanted to be that guy that let everybody else down. So I was just thinking crazy enough that this band is awesome because that's already rare, but then that's like the lottery finding nine people that are on the same page. How insane is that? And I think that that right there is part of why it's so crazy to try and make it as a band is not just the music, it's finding people in that head space.

Speaker 3 (00:33:49):

Oh, a thousand percent. Because to really be successful, you've got to have all the band members on the same page and going in the right direction. The management, the label, the lawyers, the booking agent, everybody's got to be on the same page. I always make this analogy of it's like a car with four wheels if all four wheels are going the same direction.

Speaker 2 (00:34:08):

Dude, that's what you guys told me when you did sign my band is I remember that.

Speaker 3 (00:34:12):

Yeah, you're going to go

Speaker 2 (00:34:13):

Fast. I agreed.

Speaker 3 (00:34:14):

And if not, it's not. I mean, it's pretty simple. And people go, oh, okay, I get it now. But yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2 (00:34:19):

You guys were right by the way.

Speaker 3 (00:34:20):

But yeah, and you're right about that too. There's so many factors that have to happen to be a successful fan and yeah, it's amazing how sometimes it happens.

Speaker 2 (00:34:30):

Hey everybody, if you're enjoying this podcast, then you should know that it's brought to you by URM Academy, URM Academy's mission is to create the next generation of audio professionals by giving them the inspiration and information to hone their craft and build a career doing what they love. You've probably heard me talk about Nail the Mix before, and if you're a member, you already know how amazing it is. The beginning of the month, nail the mix members, get the raw multitracks to a new song by artists like Lama, God Angels and Airwaves. Knock loose OPEC shuga, bring me the Horizon. Go Jira, asking Alexandria Machine Head and Papa Roach among many, many others over 60 at this point. Then at the end of the month, the producer who mixed it comes on and does a live streaming walkthrough of exactly how they mix the song on the album and takes your questions live on air.

(00:35:22):

And these are guys like TLA Will Putney, Jens Boren, Dan Lancaster to I Matson, Andrew Wade, and many, many more. You'll also get access to Mix Lab, which is our collection of dozens of bite-sized mixing tutorials that cover all the basics as well as Portfolio Builder, which is a library of pro quality multi-tracks cleared for use in your portfolio. So your career will never again be held back by the quality of your source material. And for those of you who really want to step up their game, we have another membership tier called URM Enhance, which includes everything I already told you about, and access to our massive library of fast tracks, which are deep, super detailed courses on intermediate and advanced topics like gain, staging, mastering, low end and so forth. It's over 500 hours of content. And man, let me tell you, this stuff is just insanely detailed.

(00:36:15):

Enhanced members also get access to one-on-ones, which are basically office hour sessions with us and Mix Rescue, which is where we open up one of your mixes and fix it up and talk you through exactly what we're doing at every step. So if any of that sounds interesting to you, if you're ready to level up your mixing skills in your audio career, head over to URM Academy to find out more. When you start to see, say you have a band that you've been working with and you start to notice things that maybe they don't notice internally or they notice, but they don't want to talk about it, for instance, two of the members are starting to be a drag. At what point do you feel comfortable getting involved if you feel like this is going to derail this project?

Speaker 3 (00:37:06):

I'm usually pretty honest about stuff, and I'll give my opinion pretty bluntly when it comes to stuff like that. It depends on the situation of the band, if they have management and all that sort of stuff. Because the first thing you would want to do is go to the manager and say like, Hey, are you aware of this? And sometimes the manager even come to you and say, Hey, I want you guys to be aware of this. And then we'll kind of talk about a plan. But it's usually pretty simple. You just sit down with everybody and as long as these guys are in the right spot, you can usually figure that stuff out. It doesn't happen that often luckily, but it does happen a few times. I think the bigger problem that we see is once a band starts to get to happen, starts doing well, is again that commitment to the band.

(00:37:51):

And we've seen this a few times over the years where one of the guys in the band, you'll have a band that's really great, one guy that drummer in the, it doesn't matter who it's, but one of them be like, I know my girlfriend says she didn't want me on the road all the time, or my parents say I need to go to school. And what I try to tell her, because I've seen this happen, millions, not millions, but many times over the years, a lot, yeah, you'll see a guy and he'll bow out because it's like, oh, I got to do this or that. And inevitably you'll see them against sometimes that was the biggest mistake I ever made. And I try to encourage them, just go for it. I mean, you've got a little window here of a couple of years where you have this opportunity, you should go for it. If it doesn't work out, you can always go back to school. You can always go back to something else, but you're not going to have this opportunity ever again. So you should really, really go after it. And most of the time it'll work, especially if the circumstances around the band are good.

Speaker 2 (00:38:49):

What I've noticed too, in those scenarios where they leave over a girlfriend, the girlfriend usually dumps them once they're out of the band without fail, it bums me out so much when I see that happen because they sacrifice their one real opportunity for something that 99 out of a hundred times will be over within three months. I think that it's not because their girlfriend only wanted them because they're in the band, but I think because that confidence that they had from doing what they actually love went away and now they're what delivering pizza or which I've seen many times and they get depressed and they get dumped. So word of warning to people listening, don't ever leave a band over a girl, in my opinion,

Speaker 3 (00:39:41):

And look, in all honesty, if it's a real relationship, she should want you to be successful on both sides.

Speaker 2 (00:39:48):

Well, I think it also goes down to the idea that if you're going to have a relationship while you're in a band, really this applies for entrepreneurs or anybody who does something that requires crazy amount of hours and a different kind of lifestyle. You have to be with somebody that gets it or it's probably not going to work

Speaker 3 (00:40:12):

On the other end. It's incredibly difficult for women who are in metal bands too, because

Speaker 2 (00:40:16):

I can imagine

Speaker 3 (00:40:17):

Just the discrimination, number one, and it's a hard thing to be in that world. And again, they have to have a partner that's supportive of them and understanding of all the stuff that happens too. So it goes both ways for sure.

Speaker 2 (00:40:33):

Oh, I know exactly how jealous guys can be of their girlfriends that are in bands. I've heard all about it. Yeah, it's just as bad. The thing is though, I guess the most important thing is to be honest with yourself because sometimes it is true that the lifestyle of being in a band or doing something like that just isn't for everybody. So I think also at the same time, maybe it is a good idea to quit. Have you ever encountered that where you've noticed that someone actually is making the right choice by bowing out and going onto a better thing?

Speaker 3 (00:41:13):

Yeah, I mean, look, that's a tough one, but yeah, I mean, we've had guys in vans that have gone on to be doctors and lawyers and successful business people and stuff, so sure, but they all loved their time doing it, and just for them, maybe the timing wasn't right and they had another opportunity. So you see that and look, my attitude is always like you have to do what makes you happy. So if that's going to make you happy, then by all means go for it. But you also want to make sure that we talked earlier that if you are going to make that move that you're really fine with leaving this away. It's not just a frivolous, frivolous move to do something, but like I said, if you have a real opportunity to it, go do it. It counts people and a couple of big realtors and a lot of people that used to be in bands are doing good stuff out there.

Speaker 2 (00:42:03):

Yeah, that's my story too. Stopping being in a band was the best decision I ever made.

Speaker 3 (00:42:09):

It could be that way.

Speaker 2 (00:42:10):

It was for real. So zero regrets about that. Okay, so speaking of quitting, this is something I think about a lot. I've always thought that just as important as it is to stick things through, even when it gets hard, it's just as important to know when to quit something because there are some ventures that are just doomed to fail. For instance, I started a beard oil company for Metalheads, and everything was awesome about it. The product was great, my partners were great, the branding was great, marketing was great, everything was great except Metalheads were not into it. And so it didn't matter how good it was, it's just interestingly enough just not the right crowd. And I would've on paper, I thought it would've been, whereas with URM, there was always momentum from the beginning, like the five and a half years we've been around the whole thing. I mean, it's been the hardest work I've ever done, but the whole thing has just been momentum from beginning till now. And so I know what it's like with my band too, where you try really, really hard, but just the stars aren't aligning and it is what it is. So with that in mind, when do you know when it's time to call it quits with a band, A band that you really love, for instance?

Speaker 3 (00:43:28):

I think it's pretty easy. I think if you start going backwards in terms of album sales or concert tickets or any of that sort of stuff, that's when you have to start taking a look at things and see where things are going. Now I've also seen situations where we've put out a record by a band that really liked that didn't do as well out of the box as we thought it was going to do, but the band was still doing well, and we tell them, just be patient. And that's worked out pretty well. I remember one time we had a band that put out a record that the last record did really well and this one didn't do as well. It was a variety of things that had happened. And they were on the road, they were on one of the festival tours, and every time I die, I was out there and Andy Williams from Every Time I Die, he was one of the best people on the planet, was talking to them and they were really bummed out.

(00:44:17):

He says, what are you guys bummed out about? He said, well, you didn't do as well as you thought we going to do. Well, you're going to go out and play in front of a thousand people right now until you go to a room and nobody shows up. Then be thankful that people are here to watch you and things will work out. And I think that was a huge help for their confidence. Even we were trying to tell 'em to calm down, but just a fellow musician that said that was really good. So sometimes you have to look at that, but in the long run, if things start to go the other way on every level, then you have to really take a good look at what's happening and make a move there. I think unfortunately, a lot of times it becomes where somebody involved just isn't into it anymore, the agent, the manager, the band members, or even the labels. And if somebody's not into it, then that's the first sign that you should probably maybe not keep doing it, which sucks because for me, that's horrible. Anytime we have to do that, we love all the bands and label and it's a bummer to not be successful. We want everybody to be successful.

Speaker 2 (00:45:23):

It's just impossible. There's no way that everybody can be.

Speaker 3 (00:45:27):

I know you can't bat a thousand, right? Damnit?

Speaker 2 (00:45:29):

No, actually I use that analogy a lot because I mean, just think about what's considered a grape adding average in baseball. It means that you're fucking up seven out of 10 times and then you're considered great.

Speaker 3 (00:45:44):

Yeah, I know, right?

Speaker 2 (00:45:45):

On baseball,

Speaker 3 (00:45:45):

Well, at least I will say in music, if things don't work out for bands, and we've seen this happen over the years, at least they put out one or two records that were really good and they've left a legacy there that they can look back on and say, Hey, I was in this band and we put out a couple of really good records. And especially the way things are now with streaming stuff, people could listen to your music at any time very easily. So your legacy really sticks around, which is cool.

Speaker 2 (00:46:11):

I think that's a gift that I wish more people appreciated because just the fact that you get to do it at all is already nuts, I think. I mean, we're surrounded by people who have done it. I think sometimes I have to remind myself that even though I've been around people who have done it forever, now that's still the minority. Like a tiny, tiny, tiny minority that's super, super rare. Even to just be a band who puts out two records and does some tours is already crazy.

Speaker 3 (00:46:44):

Yeah, the percentages are pretty low of that for sure, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (00:46:47):

Yeah, absolutely. So on the topic of producers, because our audience is mainly production people, I'm curious what it is that you're personally looking for when finding a producer or a mixer for a band, or do I know that from experience that you do get personally involved with that? I remember you coming into the studio during Y Chapel and several times when I was in Florida, whereas I know that some label people swing completely the other way. So I've had experience with you showing up. I remember showing when doth was mixing, but then I remember on the other hand, other label people, all they wanted was the record delivered and that's it. So being that you are on the end of it, of being involved and actually giving a shit, where does picking a producer come into it for you?

Speaker 3 (00:47:52):

It's interesting, and it varies on every band. I think it depends on where you want the band to go in terms of what the band's vision is and what your vision is in terms of what direction they want to go into sound wise. Because look in the middle world, I dunno, 30, 40 producers, engineer guys that do most of the work. Same thing with the mixers.

(00:48:16):

And a lot of it really depends on a couple of things. Number one, do you like what they're doing? And really the band's decision is the final decision, obviously, because the ones that have to do it, they're the ones that have to have the relationship and feel comfortable with whoever they're working with. So we'll chime in and say like, Hey, I think these three or four guys would work for this. Or we think, like you mentioned, white chapel. White Chapel likes to go in different directions sometimes. So we say, well, maybe we want to do something a little bit different. Amman, Mars is probably one of the most interesting bands when it comes to producers. And I like their attitude of things because they don't want to stay with somebody too long because they get too comfortable. They want to be challenged in the studio. So you'll see that they move around a lot. They'll use Jens Boger for a couple of records and they use Andy sne and then they use Jay Ruston, the last one. They Want

Speaker 2 (00:49:08):

All Fucking Titans

Speaker 3 (00:49:09):

I know, and all amazing producers. So it's good. But I think that's an interesting attitude, and I think that's one of the reasons why they've been so successful is that they want to be challenged in the studio. They don't want it to be comfortable. They want that extra kind of, especially of a new voice and a new guy that says, well maybe try this and you'll get some ideas from that. So it really just depends on the band. And I think the biggest thing is they've got to call the producer and talk with him and vibe with him because if you can't vibe with the producer, then it's not going to work. And I could tell you, I think Jason Soff is the perfect guy for you guys, but if they don't vibe with him, then it's not going to work or pick a name.

(00:49:52):

But then other times you'll give. I said usually we'll give a band suggestions of three or four guys that we think might work for them and then just up to them to reach out and talk to the guys and see whoever they feel most comfortable with. And that's generally the way it goes. The only time I really kind of poke my nose in, I don't do it too much during the recording process, the art of the band, and I don't really get too much involved in that. But I will poke my head up during the mix just to listen to what the mixes sound like, if it's going the right direction, if I think something should change a little bit. But honestly, I think I do that a lot less these days because these guys, all of them out there are doing such amazing work that it's pretty rare that I'll get something and I'll go, oh, I didn't really like that mix. I'd say, I don't know, 95% of all the records I've got in the last five, seven years that have been mixed. That all sound great. And maybe I'll mention a little tweak for something or a little tweak in the mastering, but there's a lot of guys right now doing a lot of stuff at a really high level, which I think is definitely helping the metal scene for sure.

Speaker 2 (00:50:55):

That actually is one of the reasons that I wanted to start your m and nail the mix was because I remember around the year 2010 or something, we were in the middle of loudness wars and it kind of felt like metal production was starting to get super stale. And I remember that we'd be working on some cool bands sometimes, but that was like 20% of the time and the other 80% of the time it was just the same thing over and over and over and over. And you were starting to get all these records that were sounding identically fake, and you combine that with an explosion in home studios, so you're just getting this super homogenized sound and metal. And I felt like that was really, really hurting metal because when I got into it, bands sounded unique. And that's what I got into it for was you could identify, and this isn't like me being like music was better in my day. I think music's awesome now, but I remember that every band when I was growing up, they had a signature. I felt like somewhere around 2010 ish, even though there were some grates, obviously there were always grates. It started to get a little weird there. I felt like someone kind of needed to step up and helped that next generation of producers learn how to do it for real because they didn't have the huge studio system to rely on or mentor in and pass on the art from the people who do it. Great. So

(00:52:32):

I'm happy to hear that you feel that way. I feel that way too. I feel like metal production has gotten incredible over the past five years. It's just getting better and better and better.

Speaker 3 (00:52:43):

And I think you're exactly right on everything you just said. And I think part of the problem though, I think with the bands too, a lot of the bands say, oh, I love the way this record sound like, I want it to sound like that. And a lot of bands would end up just sounding the same, like you said, and it got for a couple of years it was. And I would try to tell the bands, you need to sound like yourself or somebody different. If you love Black Dahlia murder or Lama God or whatever it is, that's cool, but don't try to sound like that. And I think now we've gotten into a range now where you do have a wide range of bands and even the new bands coming up have different sounds and different techniques, and there's a lot of great guys out there making great music and then producing it as well.

Speaker 2 (00:53:24):

I think part of it was because nowadays it's common for every band to have one or two producers in the band. They all have their pro tools, rigs or whatever, pick your daw. But that kind started around 2008, 2009, where it went from a band going into the studio to do the whole record to just doing drums. Then the band records guitars on their own. It comes back for vocals maybe. And then the mix and that just started to become more and more and more the norm, as you know. So I think that you started to get a lot of amateurs taking the place of what the pros used to do. And it's just kind of a normal thing that when you're first starting out as something artistic, you're imitating. All musicians do that. I think all producers do that when they're first coming out. So I think it was kind of a byproduct of the home studio revolution that you just started to get. I mean, you've always had copycats, but now the copycats were getting their shit released all the time because they were trying to save money and it just kind of was a thing.

Speaker 3 (00:54:37):

And I think now people, especially bands and everybody realizes the importance of a good producer too now. So before I think you're right, they're trying to cut a little bit and thinking that they knew too much. Now I think that they're like, okay, there's a lot of really great guys out there and we realize this is an important component to what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (00:54:55):

Do you ever get a situation where the band's like, we want to do it ourselves, pocket the money, and you're like, I get it, but not the best idea.

Speaker 3 (00:55:04):

Oh yeah, that happens and we argue and sometimes we can get them to see our way and sometimes we can't. And it's unfortunate because there's bands out there that I think have huge potential to go even further, but either they don't want to spend the money or they just want the control of everything and think they can do it themselves. And it sounds not right, but it's not as good as it could have been. And it's not as common as it used to be, but it still does happen.

Speaker 2 (00:55:33):

Am I correct that Igor is self-produced and mixed?

Speaker 3 (00:55:36):

Yeah, but that guy, I'm trying to think who mixed that record though. If somebody else mixed it, but that guy, look, there are people that really know what they're

Speaker 2 (00:55:44):

Doing. That's the exception for sure.

Speaker 3 (00:55:46):

The guys like him that know exactly what they're doing. It's going to be amazing. So it goes both ways.

Speaker 2 (00:55:51):

Yeah. Okay. So when you get to know a producer or a mixer, what is it about them that A will make you say, I don't want to work with this person again, or B makes you say, I do want to work with this person? Again,

Speaker 3 (00:56:06):

Pretty rare that we would say we don't want to work with somebody again. I think the only two things that would happen there, and it's pretty rare that that happens, would be just if the band had a bad experience for some reason with them. But that's super rare. The only other one would be just that we didn't feel that the sound that we wanted to get didn't happen. But for the most part, it's pretty rare. I think one thing I like about a lot of guys that are doing stuff now, and I'll give you an example of Jay Russin is also a good friend of mine.

Speaker 2 (00:56:34):

God, he's so good.

Speaker 3 (00:56:35):

What he does that I find really fascinating because he's all over the gamut. He will do pop stuff, he'll do rock stuff, he'll do metal stuff, he'll do super metal stuff. And it all sounds different. There's a certain sound that he gets, but everything sounds different, but good. And I think that's a big thing where there was a minute or two you've mentioned in the early 2000 tens where everything started to sound the same. Even some producers would start to sound a little bit too the same with Jay. Everything sounds different. I do notice that a lot with the way people are going now that you find that less and less, you'll hear one guy and it'll go, wow, I didn't know he did that record didn't sound like something he did. It was different.

Speaker 2 (00:57:17):

I had Jay on about a month ago. I love his philosophy and one thing that I think is interesting, well, not interesting, it's just awesome about him is he knows exactly who he is as a producer, we were talking about how if the band wants him to write parts for them, that's not who he is. He's there to make the band sound like the best versions of themselves. And he's super, I think just as clear as any artist should be about their vision, he's as clear as possible about who he is as a producer mixer. And I think that that's part of why he's so great. I think he's not trying to do stuff that's not him to do.

Speaker 3 (00:58:06):

And I think that, and for whatever reason, I mean, not that I was a great producer back in the day, I certainly wasn't, but I just do what I had to do. But I do have very opinion about what I think sounds good when you get a record back or what I think stuff should sound like and every time Jay does something, what he's doing and how he's mixing exactly what I would like stuff to sound. So we're on that same page. And he's also such a good dude.

Speaker 2 (00:58:35):

I consider him in the top three of living current metal mixers.

Speaker 3 (00:58:42):

A hundred percent. I agree.

Speaker 2 (00:58:43):

Yeah, he's unbelievable. So I don't want to take up your whole day. I have a few questions from our listeners if you don't mind me asking.

Speaker 4 (00:58:52):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:58:52):

Cool. So this is from Dan Serif, which I'm sure in your opinion, will heavy music ever make a return to the mainstream? And if yes, what would it take for such a massive cultural shift to happen? And if not, what do you believe caused the downfall and cultural coolness of heavy music or even rock in general?

Speaker 3 (00:59:12):

Well, I tend to look at things as a pendulum swinging. I've been doing this a long time and certainly when in the 1980s when we were all starting out and Wired Ma was starting out. I mean, none of us ever believed in a million years that bands like Maid n Metallica stuff would be as massively huge as they are now. And metal still is in terms of concert tickets is still either number one or number two in the world. So mainstream wise, in terms of live music, we are way bigger than a lot of the other genres are, but we don't have that mainstream acceptance from the press and the magazines and all that sort of stuff that we used to have do I think that can go back? Absolutely. I think it's slowly moving in that direction. Like I said, it's a pendulum and I think a lot of times what happens now is it's happened over the many generations is you're kind of like, I don't want to listen to what my older brother or sister listens to. I want to listen to something different. And you go in a different direction. And we're kind of seeing a little bit of that now where the younger fans, there's a lot more younger fans listening to this music now than there has been in the past. So I think that there's a definite possibility as time goes on that we can somewhat return to the mainstream. But like I said, if you look at concert ticket wise, number one or number two in the world,

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):

So I have a theory about this too. Basically URMs the biggest online platform for production and we only do rock and metal pretty much. We rarely go outside of that. My world, that's the world we know. And if we were to start doing hip hop, I don't know anyone in hip hop, I don't know what's cool in hip hop. I like some of it, but this is the world I know. And lots of times people have been like, when are you going to start doing bigger music? And every time that we've tried, it's been a bomb. We'll have a band like Lepers on and it will annihilate like a country artist that's sold 15 million albums. You get eth on or per any of these bands are between The Buried and Me and they annihilate when we have more mainstream acts on, we had Fallout Boy on which I actually love Fallout Boy, but that was not a very big month, and if you were to go just by mainstream sales, you would say you got Fallout Boy on that's going to crush all these little metal acts. And man Shuga, opec periphery goes, they annihilate the bigger bands for us.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):

The hardcore fans are there where the mainstream stuff, the fans are there, but they're just very, they're into it when it's convenient for them. I guess

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):

It's a specific kind of audience and I think if you go going to Nam is the perfect, it's like evidence that this genre of music is a lot bigger than people realize. It's just bigger in a different way. If you go to Nam, notice how much of that real estate is taken up by rock and metal as opposed to other genres of music. It's disproportionate to the, if you were to compare the record sales,

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):

Yeah, it's coming back around for a while. You would go to a guitar center and everybody was in the DJ booth by DJ stuff and not the guitars and now you've kind of seen it swing back a little bit. Hopefully.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):

Yeah, I'm hopeful. Alright, one from Scott Bennett. There have been several major regime changes in the music industry since you started Metal Blade 38 years ago. What has it been like riding those waves and what do you believe gave Metal Blade? Its staying power.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):

Yeah, it's interesting. I think you have to adapt and we've been pretty good at adapting. I learned very early on that if you don't adapt, you're not going to be around for too long. I grew up with vinyl law, I was a big vinyl fan. I still have a huge collection of vinyl and when people started telling me vinyl's going away, you have to stop manufacturing. I'm like, no, that's never going to happen. And we just kept manufacturing vinyl and eventually we got it all returned and almost bankrupted the company. And the lesson that I learned there was, okay, you need to start adapting and whatever comes our way, we have to adapt to it. And I think we've done that pretty well over the years. Whether it's changing of the types of things that you do to sell the music, whether it's cassettes, CDs, vinyl, everything else, or the whole file sharing thing or a whole bunch of other stuff. We just have adapted to whatever you can do to survive and don't not be afraid of that either. I think people got afraid when something was happening with file sharing for example. It's like, well, you use that to your advantage and you adapt to make things work.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):

Did that scare you when it happened?

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):

A little bit. I mean, it was interesting, but I understood it. I understood why people were doing it. And in a weird way,

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):

Lars was right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):

Well, he was right. But in a weird way, what it did do though was it opened up music to more and more people. More people had access to music than ever before. And that's kind of now mitigated to where the streaming world is, where for 10 bucks a month you can listen to anything you want. And the access to music that we didn't have before is a huge help for us for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):

From Johan Carlson, what are some of the biggest mistakes you see new and up and coming bands doing in your opinion?

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):

Oh boy, there's a lot. First of all, getting involved with the wrong people. That's number one.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):

Like the wrong team.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):

Yeah, the wrong team. Like I said before, that's probably the most significant part of it. Also, I think that you still have to pay your dues, and I think a lot of bands think that there's an easy shortcut to being successful. It's like, well, we've seen bands on their first tour and go, well, I want a tour bus, or I want a really nice van. It's like, wait, what? Metallica Slayer, Exodus, AMGA testimony, on and on. I mean, those bands first tours, they were sleeping on people's floors. You have to kind of pay your dues. And a lot of bands just think that they're going to put a record out and all of a sudden be super successful. So you have to be ready to do this because you love the music and you love what you're doing, not because you think you're going to have easy overnight success. And so I think those are the two biggest issues I see with bands these days. And keep your social media going.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):

Yeah, man, the whole thing about bands getting with fan managers for instance is such a, it kills me when I see that because I think to myself, what do you even need a manager for at this point?

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):

Yeah, I get it. It's hard. There's not a lot of good managers out there, but I think that, and the other thing that the key for the band members, it's one guy in the band has to know somebody about business and has to know what's going on because you have to remember that we all work for the band agents, producers, labels, we all work for the band, not the other way around. I think a lot of times the bands think that they work for us, we work for them. So it's really on them to have somebody in the band that looks out for their best interest first and don't listen to what everybody else says.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):

People come to me and they're like, what publicist should I hire? And it's like, you haven't done anything. If you don't have a story, you can pay a publicist $5,000 a month and if you don't have a story, they're going to have nothing to help you with. And it's the same thing with managers and labels.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):

Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):

Well, Brian, thank you so much for coming back on. It's been a pleasure talking to you again. And please stay healthy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):

Yeah, you do the same and same thing. Everybody out there stay healthy and enjoy the music and yeah, thanks for having me. It's fun as always.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):

Yeah, maybe we'll hang out before 2022 or something.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):

Yeah, right. Get out of our else.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):

All right, man. Have a good one. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):

Alright, you too, man. Take care.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):

Okay, then another URM podcast episode in the bag. Please remember to share our episodes with your friends as well as post them to your Facebook, Instagram, or any social media you use. Please tag me at a ar Levi URM audio, and of course, please tag my guests as well. Till next time, happy mixing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):

You've been listening to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast. To ask us questions, make suggestions and interact, visit URM Academy and press the podcast link today.