DAN KORNEFF: Carving Frequencies, Wide Guitar Tricks, and His Two-Compressor Master Bus

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Creative Live, the world's best online classroom for creative professionals with classes on songwriting, engineering, mixing and mastering. Go to creative live.com/audio to start learning now. The Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast is also brought to you by Pro Tone Pedals, the secret tone weapon for guitar experts everywhere. Go to proton pedals do com to take your tone to the next level. And now your host, Joey Sturgis,

Speaker 2 (00:27):

Joel Wanasek and Eyal Levi. This is Eyal Levi and you're listening to the very first Tips and tricks episode of the Joey Sturges Forum podcast. With me is my co-host Joel Wanasek. Mr. Joey Sturgis is out this week, but we still love him and with us as well is our guest host, Mr. Dan Korneff who will be on in a little bit. So you're on the last day of a record?

Speaker 3 (00:53):

Yes, I am. I'm finishing up Righteous Vendetta for Street Smart and I've been in the studio for I think six weeks straight with them. I don't even know, I've kind of lost count. It's been a long time and by the time I'm done mixing this, it'll probably have been about two months. So I'm a little bit stressed out. You know how it is. It's like you never, ever, no matter how long you put into a record, it's never enough time. So if you've got a month to do it, you'll get it done in a month. If you've got two weeks to do it, you'll get it done in two weeks. If you've got six months to do it, you'll use all six months. So I've got a five or six, I don't remember exactly, man, team working on this record and we've all put in a ton of time on it and I think it's going to be really, really cool. But it's just kind of like my singer's flying out today and I'm like, alright, well let's just make sure that we, because I just got the vocals back yesterday and I'm listening to 'em and there's some things I didn't like how the editor did and so I'm kind of just in full freakout mode right now.

Speaker 2 (01:45):

I totally understand and I've always wondered why that is, but I've wondered if it's human nature to just procrastinate, but you're not a procrastinator.

Speaker 3 (01:55):

We've actually been hustling though the whole time just going hard.

Speaker 2 (01:59):

Yeah, exactly. If anyone was to break that misconception that it has to do with procrastination, it's you because you're one of the most methodical, consistent people I've ever met and I've experienced the exact same thing. No matter how long you have on a record, it always comes down to the wire no matter what. And I've had records that last, like you said, six months or three weeks, it doesn't matter. So with that said, why don't we get our guests in so that we can get on with this so you can get back to your recording. We were just talking about something that maybe you can chime in on. Joel is literally on the last day of a record now, and we were just talking about how no matter you have on a record, somehow it always comes down to the total wire. Have you experienced that as well or is it just us?

Speaker 4 (02:49):

That happens with almost every record I do. You just use the amount of time that you have and then you sort of adjust everything to sort of match that timeframe, whether you can finish it in that timeframe or not. But yeah, it happens all the time.

Speaker 3 (03:02):

It's just crazy how it works because I've spent more time on this record than I've spent on anything recently and it's just like, I mean I'm literally freaking out because like I said, I told Al earlier, I just got my vocals back from my editor yesterday and I'm like, oh my God, this isn't time edited writer or I don't like how you tuned this word, or I'm just freaking out and I feel like I have to go back and do it all myself. Even though, I mean he probably killed 99% of it, but just the fact that I found one mistake, now I'm just shaking because my singer flies out at five o'clock today and I'm like, holy shit. And I'm getting stems back from different guys who are programming on it and it's just, oh my God.

Speaker 2 (03:40):

Well I think that one of the best quotes I've ever read about it actually comes from, I don't know if you guys are familiar with him or not from Eric Rutan. He's a death metal producer and he was in, well, is in Hate Eternal was in more of an angel, but he was talking about one of the hate eternal records that he did and he was saying that basically every record ends up having to be taken from him. They're never actually done. So there just comes a point where you got to give it up and it it's done. So

(04:09):

I think that that kind of has to do with what it is no matter what. It'll never be perfect, so you could always just keep on working at it. So with that said, let's get onto some tips and tricks. So I want to start with some questions that we got on the Internets. Mr. John Douglas submitted some really pretty good questions here that I feel like we could start with, but you could talk about this stuff for a year if you had to, but let's just go for your initial reactions to these questions. Just what would be your first instinct? You could write a whole university course on any one of these questions. So I guess first question would be how do you go about carving frequencies or making space in a mix?

Speaker 4 (04:52):

That's a good question. I mean everything you sort of do have to make space for everything that's in that mix. Definitely a lot of high passing, low passing, going on, subtracting from things you want to add to other things. Everything can't all exist in the same space. So for instance, a lot of times in base all carve out or high pass something at 80 even or 70 and then push the kick drum a little bit. Lower guitar is definitely high passing on that to leave more room for low end of the bass. The same thing with guitars, low passing them other than noise, there's really not much more going on above eight K and a guitar. So high passing there will make room for your symbols. That's the usual carving that I'm doing.

Speaker 3 (05:30):

How far do you usually go down low on your guitars? Because I feel like sometimes I hear guys go as low as 5K and then I know guys more in the metal side who filter maybe at 12 or 10. So it's always interesting because I'm kind of a rock dude, so I usually go way down and then I don't know, I guess when I'm mixing metal I usually don't go down. So brutally,

Speaker 4 (05:51):

Yeah, I mean I'm taking it down to probably about eight K, maybe a little lower and it sort of gets rid of the hiss all the fizz. That sounds weird to me in guitars.

Speaker 2 (05:59):

And you want to know there's dudes like Kurt Ballou who will openly say that they don't even use low passes on guitars. They'll just maybe do a slight shelf at 11. So do you ever find that clarity in the guitars disappear? Sometimes they start to become softer that way. Do you have any ways to actually counter that when say you have to do a roll off down to a certain frequency just to get rid of the nastiness, but it ends up kind of taming the guitars a little too much? Do you have a way to counter that? The

Speaker 4 (06:30):

Other thing that I guess I could do with those guitars is a lot of surgical EQ where I'm taking out some ringing and some other sort of harmonics that are not adding to the sound. And I think once you get rid of the stuff that's harsh, I mean I guess you don't have to go down that far. If they start to sound tame, you can back it off a little bit but at the same time get it rid of all the stuff that you don't, gives you more of the option to really crank up and turn up that sound once you have it the way that you want it. So maybe you can compensate with getting soft with just making it fucking loud.

Speaker 3 (06:58):

Dan, is there an area in guitars when you're carving that just absolutely fucking pisses you off on every single mix? For example, Joey and I talk about this all the time in our own private conversations about mixing, I hate like 3.2 to 3.4, sometimes 3.8 k and he hates 4K with a vengeance and we destroy on both of our work. Those frequency ranges just constantly. There's always something in the three, two to three eight range that I just have to fucking cut on everything. It just pisses me off and I hate that frequency and I would remove it from life if I could. So do you have a frequency range that just is the worst thing ever? Every time you hear it you just immediately go to an EQ and just say die?

Speaker 4 (07:37):

Oh yeah, yeah, there's definitely something around the two and a half to three and a half K range is fucking annoying. But not only that, there are equal octaves of that. So the three K range, I'll do a little surgical and then the six K and then the 12 K, just kind of doing dips at each one of those octaves really takes out that frequency range and it's harmonics. It gets really weird there.

Speaker 3 (07:59):

I kind of call that 2.5 area for me that's the ear pressure area. It gives me a fucking headache too. Too much of it. It's just like ugh.

Speaker 2 (08:08):

And I guess that is a really good question. I've seen lots of people arguing about this, but I guess when you are doing surgical eq, is it a normal thing for you to do it in octaves or is that just like when there's a problem that's really, really bad and you just need to basically scorched earth it?

Speaker 4 (08:29):

No, I think that music exists in octaves, it's just how it exists. So if you're doing something in that three K range, check out the six K and the 12 as well and see what's happening there. Usually it will make a big difference up there.

Speaker 2 (08:43):

I've just got to say that I find that six k, dipping some six k is something that almost always happens on guitars that I work on or work on with other people. I feel like it just is going to happen, may as well just cut to the chase and cut that shit. So next question is, so how much processing, I mean EQ and compression do you do on individual tracks versus buses? I guess that would mean more in terms of individual snares instead of the snare group or the guitar bus instead of individual guitar tracks, that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 (09:21):

Right. I think I do a fair amount to each one. So drums all individually get processed compression to tame 'em down a little EQ to carve out things you don't need or add what you want and then all those will go to a bus that either get compressed or eqd or both. Same thing with guitars. I'll do a little surgical EQ on each individual track, then they come out to a bus that has a master EQ on it, sometimes a compressor and then some sort of stereo widening.

Speaker 2 (09:44):

So you use stereo widening?

Speaker 4 (09:46):

Yep, definitely. Awesome.

Speaker 2 (09:47):

The reason I say awesome is because I've heard a lot of trash talk about it and obviously you can go too far with it, but what a great move.

Speaker 3 (09:57):

I'm a stereo widening hater. I used to stereo widen my guitars and I never really went crazy out, but there was a label that I was doing work for once. The owner called me and he's like, dude, every time I put your mix in headphone, it feels like when I crank it really loud, I dunno why he's cranking really loud in headphones, but whatever. So he's, I feel like the guitars instead of coming up in front of my face

Speaker 2 (10:17):

Deaf, that's why

Speaker 3 (10:18):

They go around behind my head and they give me a fucking headache and I'm like, yeah, I kind of just put two and two together. I'm like, I do feel like when I have widener on, it kind gives me a headache. So I stopped doing it and I make up for that width with surgically queue and summing and having a good, I mean I wish I had a console but I mean I use a good summing mixer and I feel like that adds that extra, my guitars just went out 30% that I can't quite get when I'm mixing straight ITB. So I stopped using Widener. That's interesting. I mean I think it's cool that you guys like Randy Staub uses 'em and he's one of my favorite mixers so I think it's fucking great.

Speaker 2 (10:51):

Alright, so the problems I've heard with them and have experienced have been the phase weirdnesses, but I mean I've never heard any of that weirdness in any of Dan's work or Stubb's work. So I guess the next question would be how do you get around the phase weirdness with Widener when you're using them?

Speaker 4 (11:11):

The one trick to that, just don't put a guitar widener on your whole bus. What I do is it's sort of like a parallel process and you have your main guitars, they're still ripping through the bus and then you have a bus of that coming off to the wide era that's heavily eqd and you tuck that up underneath your main guitar sound.

Speaker 3 (11:27):

So when you say heavily eqd, I mean is there any particular frequency ranges you would notch out? For example, would you make it more lo-fi and make it wider in the 800 to 2K range? I mean I've seen and heard just different guys approach it different that you saw. I'm kind of curious how you would approach it.

Speaker 4 (11:42):

For me, I'm not really taking anything away from that. It's more of adding a shit ton of 800 to it, making it sort of bottom heavy really basey and then tucking that up underneath them.

Speaker 3 (11:51):

Sweet. That's something I want to play with with now.

Speaker 2 (11:54):

Yeah, I've actually never really heard it done that. That's very interesting. But I mean that's exactly one of those tricks that you hear people talking about where it can literally go either way with them and it's one of those things where great mixers love it or hate it, but I feel like if great mixers love it, there's got to be some way to do it where it doesn't cause those problems. And let me just say something about a and r dudes, I realized that a lot of them have a great heart and some of them have a great ear, but I remember Andy Snoop telling me that he came to America to, he was on some trip and he was making the rounds in LA and New York and all that and he stopped at one a and r guy's office who would always rail him with mixed notes and he noticed that his speakers just his regular what he listens to everything on speakers were wired out of phase and to fix that for 'em. So it is like you never really know where these people are coming from in the first place. Sometimes

Speaker 3 (12:55):

They think they're mixers too just because they listen to a lot of audio and they know a little bit about like, hey, the guitar should be are too loud or it's a little bit too bright on the high hat, but they think they know how to actually mix a record that can be really fucking irritating to deal with.

Speaker 2 (13:10):

Definitely. Yeah, it just depends on how the neurotic versus good advice ratio that they can provide. Alright, so next question would be what kind of stuff do you automate manually versus side chaining or auto riding plugins?

Speaker 4 (13:27):

Stuff that I would do more of the automatic stuff is ducking a base with a kick drum. So every time that kick drum hits the base, it kind of comes down, makes more room for that kick. Internally, I'll side chain the snare drum and the overheads. That way it kind of knocks down the bleed in those overheads and it brings out the symbols a bit more. I think that's it for sort of like auto stuff and then manually doing rides. It's like to emphasize pieces, make a chorus louder, I'll do a master fader ride riding vocals so they sit in the mix. That kind of stuff you have to do by hand.

Speaker 2 (14:00):

I always thought that those vocal rider plugins and stuff, base rider never really worked right?

Speaker 4 (14:05):

I've never even tried. I don't even know what they do.

Speaker 2 (14:08):

Everybody I know who tried them was like, this sounds like a great idea, let's try this shit. And three minutes later we're like, fuck this. Basically. I really don't know anyone who's had a different experience with that.

Speaker 3 (14:23):

I hate them personally. What's

Speaker 4 (14:24):

The concept behind it? What does it do?

Speaker 3 (14:26):

It reads your track and it makes the automation, so this word in amplitude or RMS, I'm not sure how it calculates it is quieter than this one. So we're going to jack that word and bring this one down. So there's a certain, it's like having a compressor kind of, but it manually calculates it with math and goes through and takes every note and that song or whatever you're trying to automate and makes it pretty much a level within the tolerance that you set in the plugin, which is a great idea in theory, but just, I don't know,

Speaker 2 (14:51):

I guess how it's different than a compressor is that it's not going to affect your tone. I know that you can use compressors to not affect tone. That's not a part of it at all. It's strictly volume on paper, but that it doesn't really do what it says it's going to do.

Speaker 3 (15:08):

Right? Maybe we're just all stupid and not using it correctly.

Speaker 2 (15:12):

That's possible. That's entirely possible. And there's a lot to be said for reading the manuals on plugins and actually doing what the company suggests. I've actually solved lots of my own problems with plugins by just reading the instructions and especially with plugins that are made by non-native English speakers. I'm saying this because waves are not an American company. Sometimes there's things that language wise or process of thinking wise, it is just going to be different because different cultures process information in different ways to read things from front to back or not.

Speaker 3 (15:50):

There's different ways of saying the same thing too. As somebody who's married internationally, it's amazing. Okay, here's a story. I was at daycare the other day real quick and I picked my kid up and the lady was like, your daughter's being really bossy. I'm like, what do you mean? She always says, Papa, you're going to blah blah, blah and I'm going to blah blah, blah. In English, that sounds really weird and aggressive, but in Russian, that's how you say it. You're just like, you're going to blah blah blah. And it's not rude at all. Just like, okay, cool, instead of can you blah blah, blah. It's the same thing.

Speaker 2 (16:16):

My dad's Israeli and he always says, close the lights instead of turn off the lights. Yeah, close the lights. But it's funny and all. But I guess when it comes to a complex operation like a plugin, those types of subtle differences I think in language will translate into how easy the plugin is to understand. And so I've literally solved problems for myself with certain those plugins by reading the instructions or watching their three minute tutorial and being like, oh, why is that button there? That is the weirdest place to put that button, but that button makes all the sense in the world. So yeah, maybe we are, we're just using waves right or wrong, but I doubt it.

Speaker 3 (16:58):

Moral of the story, sell all plugins, get hardware.

Speaker 2 (17:01):

Yeah, true. And speaking of that, what's on your master bus setup?

Speaker 4 (17:06):

Holy shit. Master bus. I have two compressors in series and love it. Hell yeah. Eq. Yeah, I live in compression land, so there are two SSL compressors, so the console compressor into another outpoured console compressor and then into a filltech mastering eq.

Speaker 3 (17:24):

Now do you have those compressors set at different values? Give you an example real quickly. I mix hybrid and I have two summing mixers and I have my instrumental mics go into a bus compressor, which I use in SSLG comp, and then it goes out into another summing mixer where I add in all my vocals and then I compress that in through my Shadow Hills mastering compressor where I use the two compressors in series. So technically I use three and I have them all set at different attack and release times based on what I wanted to do. So I'm kind of curious how you use that if you have two of them. I dunno, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (17:54):

Yeah, well first one is set for sort of impact. So it's going to be a slow attack fast release to make it slam. It could be two 10 or 20 to one ratio, I'm sorry, 2, 4, 10. And then the outboard guy is set more of a peak protector, it's going to be a faster attack, slower release usually at four to one or 10 to one, and the EQ sits in between the two. So compressor, eq, compressor.

Speaker 3 (18:20):

That's awesome. I think that having two hardware compressors on your two bus once you kind of get it down is really fricking cool. You can really cause a lot of damage, but once you kind of figure it out, it's definitely worth experimenting with.

Speaker 4 (18:31):

Yeah, I mean the master bus is, a lot of people are afraid of it and some people just go for it. When I was first growing up, I was very conservative with everything that I did. I always didn't want to do too much damage. And I remember at a young age I had Andy Wallace mix a song for me and I got to sit in and just kind of make notes with them and sit down at the console and you could see very soft guitar came in on the intro. The compressor hit about four DB of gain reduction then and when it hit the chorus it was hitting like 12, about 12 DB gain reduction in the chorus. I'm like, oh, well that's how you're supposed to do it. There it is.

Speaker 3 (19:04):

How hard do you usually go on your gain reduction?

Speaker 4 (19:06):

I mean pretty hard. It usually sits between four and eight on my first compressor, probably a little bit less on the other

Speaker 3 (19:12):

Fucking That's awesome. That's like real man's compression.

Speaker 4 (19:15):

Well, you just kind of live in that land.

Speaker 2 (19:17):

I'm guessing that you're mixing into it the whole time. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (19:20):

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (19:21):

I get that question a lot. That's why I just asked it. It's one of those, well of course you would mix into it a lot, but that's really, really interesting to me that with Andy Wallace, you're seeing it go even to minus 12 because I have grown up around dudes who are afraid of getting more than three or four

(19:40):

And I always felt like there was something missing in those mixes and it just totally makes sense. It's like I remember this one time that Colin Richardson mixed something for me and I was watching, for instance, how he does his Master Fader rides and I see most of the thinking about that being like, so you go up one DB on a chorus or whatever and maybe two db on the final one or whatever, very conservative moves. This guy had the end of the song like six DB louder than the beginning. He was doing some major rides through this amazing Neve board. But I mean it was a big part of how he mixes and he fucking goes for it. It just blows my mind when you find out that the big boys are doing stuff that's just extreme and also in some weird way the kind of extremity that you would expect with a beginner who's just feeling stuff out and thinking it sounds cool.

(20:36):

So going for it before they find out that that stuff is wrong to do. So that's why it's kind of fascinating to me when I find out that really, really big shot dudes will do those super extreme moves that lots of people tuck down on because it's almost like they learned stuff all along the way and didn't let formal education or internet education or stuff in magazines really influence what they thought was right. So that said, let me ask you another question that we've got in here, which is being that you are a heavily out of the box guy, how do you decide between in the box and out of the box as you mix on your console, what are the limitations and benefits of going either way for you and when do you make the decision this is going to be a hardware comp versus software or EQ or whatever?

Speaker 4 (21:27):

Sure, sure. Well, on my console, the only thing that you can automate are the faders. So anything other than that, if I'm looking for a certain sound that I can only get from a plugin if it's an effect or something like that, then as something I'll do in the box, most of my compression is out of the box. I'm trying to think of what I would do or how I would choose each one. I'm not really sure.

Speaker 2 (21:49):

I remember Will Putney writing once he said this online once that the way he decides is if he finds himself using a certain plugin a lot, it goes to the same plugin the same way too many times. Then he'll try to replace it with the real thing.

Speaker 4 (22:05):

Right. Yeah, I mean the only difference being that if you buy a hardware unit, you only have one, whereas a plugin you could have a hundred of them.

Speaker 3 (22:11):

Well, here's a question for you based off that, Dan, do you feel like when you have an analog compressor, and this is something I have a really hard time explaining in words, but I swear to God I can feel it and hear it and it's really obvious to me and because not a lot of guys mix analog anymore, it's kind of like I got no one to talk to about this stuff, so I'm lonely in my experience. I was kind of curious, do you feel like analog compressors act and react differently to audio than the digital emulations? Because I feel like there's a certain, I call it Michael Brower calls it waving. There's a certain movement to a front to back and a pulse and I just call it a movement or an energy. It's like it comes back at you and forward and there's a movement to the audio and the way that the analog compressor acts.

(22:53):

And when I run into a digital compressor, it doesn't matter which one, no matter how I've literally tried almost everything I can think of or find, no matter how good the emulation, it feels like it just flattens. It feels like it doesn't have that movement character to it. It's really like an obscure abstract thing. And for someone who's never heard it, you'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about? But I think I'm either going crazy or everybody else is off on some weird island and hasn't figured it out. So does that make any sense to you? Can you relate to that at all? Am I out of my mind?

Speaker 4 (23:20):

Yeah, no, no, not at all. When I first started, I was all out of the box. As I progressed, I moved to being mostly in the box with some outboard gear and then kind of came full circle again to being mostly out of the box. The headroom is different on plugins. They react differently to gear mostly. It just basically comes down to limitations of processing. If we had infinite amount of processing, we could accurately replicate piece of hardware and it would sound identical to it. But the problem is we don't have infinite processing. We have shortcuts and we have calculated math and stuff like that to sort of emulate what the analog piece of gear is doing. But I remember years ago I was mixing something in the box. It was all completely in the box and it just sounded flat, didn't sound right. And I took off like an SSL emulated plugin on my bus and I patched in the real bus compressor and I'm like, oh, this is it. That's the sound I'm missing.

Speaker 3 (24:15):

I know that feeling. I went up to a place with a full SSL. Do you know Dan Mulch at the Sound Mine?

Speaker 4 (24:20):

I do not.

Speaker 3 (24:21):

Okay. He's kind of in Pennsylvania. He's over by you. So that's why I was curious. And when I went to dance's studio and we took my ITB versions where I used all the same plugins and we compared 'em against just running through the console, I was just like, what the fuck? It was like my guitars were 20% wider and he's literally not doing anything to him. And just, I had the VBC on and I think Stevens Slate makes amazing products, but it just blew my mind how much of a difference there was between the emulation and the real fricking deal. And we just sat back and just a B and I was just like, wow, I'm going to go. I was pissed. I'm like, Dan, you're going to cost me a ton of money now I have to go buy a bunch of hardware to get that sound because I fell in love with it. And ever since I've kind of, I came up mixing ITB my whole life. And then about four years ago I started just buying brutal amounts of outboard and selling kidneys and just every dollar I could muster to pick up some cool gear. I mean, I'm glad I did it. I really just love that sound and the organics of it. It's a different feel. I mean, I love what ITB does, but analog just does something completely different and it's cool to have both sometimes. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (25:23):

I think that what Dan is saying about the limitations of computing is very, very true because another place where you find that is in drum replacement, that's why symbol replacement sucks just about always, but why it's gotten pretty good with actual shells, the amount of instances of a symbol that you need to record in order to get it to sound just like a real symbol is pretty much beyond what your normal computer can handle right now. So it's not that you couldn't figure that out, it's just a little ways away before it'll sound at that point. Just because literally symbol is swiveling and changing in shape and changing in distance and so many different factors going into that sound hitting the microphone that it is just beyond what your computer can handle

Speaker 3 (26:23):

So hard to do. And that's coming from a guy who's got a drum library out. I mean, just like for example, the harmonic buildup on a ride, when they're pinging away on a part, there's that cumulative resonance and you just can't, if somebody knows how to compute that mathematically, please contact me. You got a job.

Speaker 2 (26:44):

And that's what I'm saying though. It's not that it's not possible. I'm just saying that it's computers that maybe the government or Google have some computers that could handle handle it's possible in real time. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (26:56):

Computers.

Speaker 2 (26:56):

So Joel and I were just talking, so you use cubase.

Speaker 4 (27:00):

I do use cubase.

Speaker 2 (27:01):

Awesome. So that said, we have a question here about Pro Tools. I guess it doesn't really count, but I want to see if maybe there's a similar issue. And here I'll read you the question and I just want to see if there's an equivalent. The last few mixes I've done, I've been routing all tracks to a dummy output bus and then use sends for all actual routing. According to Michael Brower's engineer, it's the only way to keep pro tools, a hundred percent phase accurate with tons of parallel processing. So that said, is there any particular methods that you route stuff or route stuff out or in Cubase? Is the phase accuracy just assumed?

Speaker 4 (27:38):

Well, I guess the thing that he's talking about here is delay compensation. So that's the question right there is delay compensation. Cubase itself, when you use external plugins and stuff like that, has an amazing delay compensation calculator. He just kind of hit a button, it pings input and output calculates the round trip and it turns out to be a hundred percent phase accurate. Now as far as in the box plugins and stuff like that, I mean you're sort of at the mercy of what the plugin designer is reporting that the delay compensation should be for your computer to sort of react to that. I'm not really sure how pro tools works, but I believe in cubase innuendo, individual channels can be delayed compensated. But I think once you get to groups and stuff like that, they are not compensated. I could be wrong, but I have found that sometimes if I'm doing parallel processing with something in the box, I'll have to add an instance of the same plugin to other things just to make it all line up. So it could be totally true, but I'm not really doing any parallel processing per se in the computer that's going through groups or stuff like that. So I've never experienced that one.

Speaker 2 (28:43):

And I guess that said, when you're routing out to your console, do you pretty much have it set up the same way every time and then make minor adjustments? Or are you going from scratch every time?

Speaker 4 (28:54):

No, I definitely have a process that I like certain things, certain drum compressors and the guitar widener and bass and stuff like that. So it's sort of like I have everything sort of patched in the way that I like it, add that to whatever they give me.

Speaker 2 (29:07):

The reason I'm asking that is because we got a question that says, how do you feel about recalls since you're mixing on a board?

Speaker 4 (29:13):

Yeah. Well, I mean the console has total recall. You got to take notes on all the stuff that you have outboard. I know we live in a society of a DD where people want you to open up a song and change one little thing and print it and be exactly the same. A lot of people request that kind of stuff, but at the same time, you sort of lose the idea that what you're doing is precious. They sort of think that you can recreate and make anything at the drop of a hat and have it be exactly the same. But what we do is precious and you really have to think hard about, well, do I really want to ride up that one high hat hit to compromise, maybe everything else changing.

Speaker 3 (29:50):

Get a good assistant.

Speaker 4 (29:52):

Yeah, a good assistant

Speaker 3 (29:53):

That takes care of the recall problem. I mean, mine's awesome. He has sheets and he just boom, boom, boom, boom, done. It's not even that big of a deal. I also don't mix on a console, so it could be harder.

Speaker 4 (30:02):

Well, I mean all in all, it takes about 30 or 40 minutes to set up a mix to recall a mix from your notes. So it's not the end of the world if there are recalls. I just kind of wait until the end of the mix session and then we go back and make adjustments on songs. And usually by the end of that time, 12, 14 days, people sort of not get used to, but they don't freak out about something that they may not have liked. They live with it. And then sometimes it's, there's a huge fucking disaster and you got to recall it. And you spend half the day fixing a song.

Speaker 2 (30:30):

Do you get recalls ever months later?

Speaker 4 (30:33):

The only recalls that I've gotten way later are like radio mixes or radio edits, stuff like that. But I've never finished a project and had it sit around for months and then make changes and then put it out. Usually it's in and then it's out.

Speaker 2 (30:46):

So it's part of the process. It's just part of your general mixing process. I'm sure that that just forces you to commit that much harder, which is a great thing to do anyways.

Speaker 4 (30:57):

Yeah, yeah. I mean, usually what I like to do is get in early, mix the song, have it out to the band by dinner, go home, have dinner with the wife, come back, they have mixed notes, make adjustments, print it, and then go home.

Speaker 2 (31:08):

Wow. If only everything was that quick and easy. That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (31:13):

Well, it helps to tell the band up front like, listen, I'm mixing this on a board. It's all analog. You guys need to commit. If not, piss off. I'm not recalling a month from now, or I'm going to charge you up the ass. And then they go, okay, cool. And it's amazing how decisive people quickly get when you give them a little bit of, listen, I'm not going to let you just walk all over me and this isn't going to be like that. I can't just hit load and then print to raise the high head at 0.2 DB and add 0.2 at eight K. It's not going to happen. So

Speaker 4 (31:40):

Just

Speaker 3 (31:41):

Let's get it right and do it correct the first time and be decisive and live with it. It's not the end of the world if the high hats a half DB two, quiet on the record. Literally no one cares. But

Speaker 2 (31:51):

Yeah, that handles a lot of those mixed notes where it is just one guy wanting something different, but not necessarily better.

Speaker 4 (31:59):

Yeah, I mean, one thing that I learned from doing this a long time is that you have to coordinate everybody, get everybody on the same page. Let them know what's happening. And one rule that I usually tell bands is that you can make any comment you want, but you cannot comment on your own instrument. So if you're a bass player, you cannot make a fucking comment on the bass. If everyone else says there's something wrong with the bass, then maybe there's something wrong with the bass. If you're tweaking out about something, it's probably personal and no one cares about it. I

Speaker 3 (32:24):

Feel like that should be put on a poster board and every studio around the entire world

Speaker 4 (32:28):

And

Speaker 3 (32:29):

Laminated and a light should be directed on it, so it draws attention to it.

Speaker 2 (32:34):

Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah, it's old school shit. That's a great sentiment. I mean, it's crazy though, how when we do mixed critiques, we can tell which instrumentalist in the band mix the song. If it's a vocalist mixing his own stuff or the drummer is the dude in the band doing it, you can always tell from the mix because that's where it leans. The vocals are too loud or the bass too loud or whatever. So it's amazing how true it is that you need to get people to stop focusing on their own instrument and listening to the bigger picture. But that said, I think that's all the questions we have for this one, man. You want

Speaker 3 (33:14):

To do a rapid fire maybe?

Speaker 2 (33:16):

Yeah,

Speaker 4 (33:16):

Do it.

Speaker 3 (33:16):

I'll name an instrument and you'll be like, all right, here's my favorite, or whatever. I feel like that's something kids would definitely be interested. Like dude, Dan Eff uses X on his guitars. That's all I'm ever using ever again.

Speaker 4 (33:30):

Tracking or mixing,

Speaker 3 (33:32):

Whatever. We'll leave that element to mystery for it. So alright, I'll name off an instrument. You tell me in five seconds, what would be your go-to? So kick drum.

Speaker 4 (33:43):

Kick drum, beta, 52, SSL, mic, pre compressor, eq, DRA to tape vocals, vocals screaming SM seven to tele Funken mic pre to 1176 to a Gates SA 39. Singing is a little more delicate like a C 12 into the SSL or a Neve mic pre to 1176.

Speaker 3 (34:04):

Distorted guitar.

Speaker 4 (34:05):

Distorted guitar 57 in a Royer 1 22 tele Funken V 6 76 mic pre no compression, right to the computer

Speaker 5 (34:13):

Base

Speaker 4 (34:14):

Base. Geez, I love the sand amp stuff. RBI is

Speaker 3 (34:18):

Pretty high five on that one.

Speaker 4 (34:19):

Just has a natural tone to it. RE 20 on the cabinet, usually an LA four compressor on all those guys. Right to the computer.

Speaker 5 (34:27):

Djembe.

Speaker 4 (34:28):

Dude,

Speaker 5 (34:29):

I'm kidding.

Speaker 4 (34:30):

I was going to say, I've recorded a lot of these Spanish metal bands. They got 'em in there. It's crazy.

Speaker 5 (34:35):

Alright, djembe, let's go.

Speaker 4 (34:37):

All right. 4 21 on top, D one 12 on the bottom. Something really hard like the SSL Mic pre compressor. Awesome.

Speaker 3 (34:44):

Thank you, Dan. That was awesome.

Speaker 2 (34:45):

Thank

Speaker 4 (34:45):

You. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (34:46):

Man, just want to tell you how much we appreciate you being on here for our very first Tips and Tricks episode.

Speaker 4 (34:51):

That's awesome. I love this shit.

Speaker 2 (34:53):

So that said, man, we're going to sign off now, but thanks again. Thank you. The Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast

Speaker 1 (35:00):

Is brought to you by Creative Live, the world's best online classroom for creative professionals with classes on songwriting, engineering, mixing, and mastering. Go to creative live.com/audio to start learning now. The Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast is also brought to you by Proton Pedals, the secret tone weapon for guitar experts everywhere. Go to proton pedals.com to take your tone to the next level. To ask us questions, suggest topics and interact. Visit m academy com and subscribe today.