Joey Sturgis, Joel Wanasek & Eyal Levi: Building a Studio on a Budget, Hardware vs. Plugins, What Gear to Buy First

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Line six. Line six is a musical instruments manufacturing company that specializes in Guitar, amp, and affects modeling and makes guitars, amps, effects, pedals and multi effects. We introduced the world's first digital modeling amp and we're behind the groundbreaking pod multi effect, which revolutionized the industry with an easy way to record guitar with great tone. Line six will always take dramatic leaps so you can reach new heights with your music. And now your hosts, Joey Sturgis, Joel Wanasek and Eyal Levi.

Speaker 3 (00:36):

Hey guys, welcome to the Joey Studies Forum podcast, and today we're talking about how to get the most bang for your buck, and this is a tips and tricks episode on basically how to spend your money wisely on hardware versus software because now that seems to be a option for us based on where technology has taken us. Plugins are getting better every day, but hardware is still around and also still has a purpose. So I'd like to start with EQ because I feel like a lot of hardware EQ isn't necessary, especially if you're trying to budget yourself and you're like, okay, what should I buy? I would go with EQ plugins all day, but maybe you have a different opinion and let's consider the fact that for a clarif, you can get the plugin version as well. So I'm curious, what do you think, Joel? Because you've got a lot of outboard gear. Wait,

(01:33):

Wait. That's one piece I would buy. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (01:35):

That's a pretty awesome piece. You would buy

Speaker 2 (01:37):

Eq,

Speaker 3 (01:37):

The cla eq for sure. Yeah. Sorry, Joel. My name's not Joel, but I just had to stick up for that piece.

Speaker 4 (01:43):

Yeah, that piece. Fricking slays. But to be honest, I would actually change the direction of course here, and the reason I'm going to say that is because if I had to start getting into gear, I would focus on first getting a really good two channel input, meaning converter microphone pre, because that's going to literally do 90% of your work. So before I even start getting into EQ or do I need an outboard compressor for tracking or et cetera, I would start there. So maybe it makes more sense to start there.

Speaker 2 (02:11):

The big problem there though is the cost of admission is so high. I mean, getting a nice DA is into the five figures.

Speaker 3 (02:20):

No, if we're talking about a two channel that's budget conscious, but really good, they can get an apogee for 600 or 700 bucks as opposed to like,

Speaker 2 (02:32):

Yeah, you can't record drums with that though.

Speaker 3 (02:35):

No, but if we're starting at just two channels or something,

Speaker 4 (02:39):

Here's the thing, right? 90% of the stuff you're going to record except for drums like guitars with a di bass, with a, a vocalist, maybe like a standup bass, a horn, maybe a solo violin, an acoustic guitar, a shaker, a tambourine, 90% of the stuff that's going to come through your door can be done on one or two channels. So if you really want to focus your bank for the buck and buy something that's a little bit nicer or even upper mid range, I would really just say the priority should be on just getting a good preamp or two and then a good set of converters because that's going to literally, like I said, 90% of your audio is going to pass through those, and then if you are doing a drum kit, you can always get something cheaper. I used to have this, I had a stereo pair of MyTech converters, which were super high-end stereo, or sorry, mastering converters, not stereo, super high-end mastering two channel ad, and then I had a Beringer eight channel just absolutely nonsense, converter preamp thing that was super cheap, and I'd run all my stuff that would be triggered through that, but I would capture my symbols and my overhead through the really high quality stuff.

(03:45):

So for me, I mean, like I said, an EQ in terms of outboard would be literally one of the last things that I would purchase because I usually don't like to EQ into the computer unless I absolutely have to.

Speaker 3 (03:57):

Yeah, I feel like outboard EQ is one thing that you do once you have good converters, once you have good preamps, once you have some good compressors, then it's like, okay, well maybe it would be cool to put some of these APIs in my lunchbox or something, but I feel like that's way down the line. I'm going to echo what you just said. If you're starting at the bottom and you're not going to record drums or whatever, most bang for your buck is to get a really good two channel interface that's hopefully expandable. Then if you are going to record drums, I would split it into two different units. One that's higher quality and one that's lower quality for the throwaway tracks. Throwaway tracks being like Jill said, trigger splats, talk back, all that stuff that doesn't have to be high quality and then just keep expanding from there. I think the most important thing of though is that whatever you get, be expandable.

Speaker 4 (04:53):

Yeah, absolutely. That's what I really love about the lunchbox concept. So you can go out and buy a, well, I'm looking at one right now. For example, you can buy, I think it's like an eight slot, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 slot lunchbox from API now for 420 bucks, which is really, really reasonable. And if you want to start getting into EQs and compressors and things like that, there's so many cool options for that and you don't have to pay for that extra power supply and all the stuff that comes with it. So for example, when I bought a Neve brought Averil Mod 10 73 EQ with additional EQ points, you had to buy the power supply for a couple hundred bucks on top of the mic pre. And what's cool about stuff in a lunchbox, it's like if you buy an EQ or a preamp or a compressor, you just plug it in and it works.

(05:37):

You don't have to shell out another couple of hundred bucks. So if you're going to go down that route, I feel like the lunchboxes have insane value now. It definitely has it's opponents. Some guys say that they're really underpowered and lunchbox gear isn't as good as the freestanding stuff and things like that. There's a lot of definitely strong arguments from people who design gear for a living and get super tucky about that stuff, but the stuff that I've used in the lunchbox has all sounded really good to my ears, so I'm not going to say that they're right or wrong.

Speaker 3 (06:07):

I've tested that out a few times and I have found that the mount versions of certain pieces were better than the lunchbox versions, but also I almost feel like sometimes it's an unfair comparison because especially when you're dealing with knockoffs, there's so many different versions of every piece now that I feel like there's almost too many variables there. But in general, I do feel like I can get a little bit more out of the rack gear, but the lunchbox gear is perfectly fine.

Speaker 2 (06:45):

You definitely want to consider though bang for buck if you could get one EQ plugin, it can be put on many, many tracks versus only having one EQ lunchbox insert that can only be used on one track at a time,

Speaker 4 (07:04):

Or you could track everything through that one EQ and get that extra 10% that the plugin's not going to give you. So I, I would say the cheap way to get into that sort of price point or get around that limitation, again, it's a compromise. You have to EQ going into the box, but if you want to be budget conscious, that's definitely a good way to kind of circumvent that issue.

Speaker 2 (07:24):

It also locks you into a certain type of processing you're processing, you're doing your EQ before. If you're going to put a compressor plugin inside the DAW somewhere in your mix and you've tracked your EQ on the way in, then all of your EQ is pre compressor and that's puts you down a certain path. Whereas post compressor EQ is a completely different thing and that won't be available to you if you do it that way. So those are some things to consider in that regard.

Speaker 4 (07:52):

Yeah, I think a good starting point, if you're going to buy an outboard EQ and print EQ into the box, find something that's very musical that doesn't have a lot of really surgical options to it, so something that's tone shaping, that's got a nice sound to it. For example, the tone of looks, tilty cues are really awesome. It's one knob and you can brighten or darken things and you still get some of that nice sound and transformer, or sorry, op amp, I'm not an electrical engineer, so excuse that whatever goods are in the box, I think it's amps in those that people, but they have that certain kind of tone and stuff so you can kind of impart that. I'll give you an example. I have my Shadow Hills mastering compressor and it has three transformer options and each one kind of has its own special sauce and magic that it's really good for and that it excels at, and I'll just track through it even if I'm not using any compression or EQ or not, it doesn't matter to me. I just want the tone of that transformer on the audio because it just makes, it does that thing and gives it that sound, which to me is favorable to my ear

Speaker 3 (08:53):

For sure. Now, one thing that I really think is important is kind of not buying new gear, especially when you're dealing with compressors in eq. Just get well-maintained use gear. It's way, way cheaper and the well-made stuff pretty much lasts forever. Do you feel the same way though about converters and interfaces and stuff?

Speaker 2 (09:17):

I would say for some of the heavier duty gear compressors I think have a long lifespan, a lot of things that don't have tubes in them, like solid state gear, all that kind of stuff, definitely get it secondhand because what's the point in buying new, unless you're trying to do some sort of tax asset depreciation strategy or something like that. If you're just trying to get some gear and get started and get going, take a look on eBay and take a look on Craigslist and all that kind of stuff. I think that's

Speaker 3 (09:51):

Reverb.com.

Speaker 2 (09:52):

Yeah, vintage King, that's another one right as well. Vintage Audio King or something like that.

Speaker 4 (09:58):

Vintage King sells new gear. I mean they have some old stuff, but it's usually consoles and really rare compressors that cost way, way too much money to be discussing on a budget oriented podcast.

Speaker 3 (10:10):

Yeah, vintage king is the crazy shit.

Speaker 2 (10:12):

Some gear you're limited to used only. I mean, it's kind of like you're not going to go out and buy a new U 47 today, but you might be able to find one that somebody else has used for years. So it just depends. But yeah, it's secondhand is a good way to go about a lot of this stuff.

Speaker 4 (10:29):

I've bought some gear secondhand, but I'm one of those guys. I like to have everything new because I take very, very good care of my gear and all of my stuff is pristine and I like knowing that when I get it, it's my responsibility a hundred percent I'm not getting the used car. But again, it's not the most budget conscious thing to do, but in the long, long-term, if you take really good care of your stuff, you don't smoke in your studio, you're not dumping beer all over your compressors and stuff like that on a weekly basis and any other sort of shenanigans. I think that there's a longer long-term value in terms of having stuff because you know that you've taken care of it and it's going to last you longer than an LA two-way that's been kicked down the stairs a few times.

Speaker 3 (11:09):

Well yeah, you have no way of knowing that if you're buying it used, but I mean I feel like that's why you need to vet where you're getting it from for sure.

Speaker 4 (11:17):

Absolutely. So let's talk about microphones because I feel like microphones are a question I see a lot on the forums where kids want to know what's a good budget condenser or dynamic or I'm doing singing vocals, what should I get? Should I get a condenser or dynamic or what do you guys think?

Speaker 2 (11:35):

Yeah, I mean a good large diaphragm condenser is nice to have because it can do a lot of things and it depends on your workload, but for someone like me who has the workload I have, I have the task of micing, all kinds of different things. I might need to mic some hand claps, I might need to mic up a clock, I might need to mic up a bat being shoved into a car. There's a lot of different random things that I need to record, so having a large diaphragm condenser is great for that and they're useful for vocals and guitars and a lot of people don't reach for an LDC on guitars, but you'd be surprised. It sounds really good and I'd start with that. If you don't have any mics, definitely start with an LDC.

Speaker 4 (12:20):

Can I chime in on that because I feel like LDC and budget are a very, very tricky thing because I would rather have a really good dynamic Mike than a really cheap LDC because the quality of the LDCs in the very, very cheap realm absolutely is dog shit and I've mixed enough records,

Speaker 2 (12:40):

But I never, yeah, I'll just say this, I never said get a cheap LDC. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (12:45):

So now there is a price point and maybe that's in the five or $600 range or whatever where you can find some good stuff. For example, stellar audio makes some really fricking awesome large diaphragm condensers like the CM five, the CM six, and my assistant Joe turned me onto them and they're awesome. They sound really, really good and they're very high quality clone remake mikes on Chinese donor bodies, but I think they're all handmade and stuff like that, so the quality is really good and you can get a really good result, but I feel like in general you have to spend a little bit of money on a large DIAM condenser mic, but in my opinion, it's better to save up a little bit, a couple extra paychecks and get something that's going to do a great job. Again, you don't need to buy a $3,000 Norman, but you can get something that's going to do well that isn't going to break the bank, but it's definitely worth it to save up the extra couple of hundred bucks and get something that's going to make you happy that you're going to be able to use for five to 10 years as opposed to something that you're going to want to replace next year because the budget MXL, the guy at Guitar Center talked to you into that specs the same as E 87 sounds like shit.

Speaker 3 (13:48):

I got to say though, if they're going to save the money on that and then just get a cloud lifter or whatever, it's kind of dumb, it's kind of pointless.

Speaker 4 (13:56):

Yeah,

Speaker 3 (13:56):

No, seriously, I almost think that you should divide, say you only have 1200 bucks to spend tops or something or a thousand or whatever, rather than get a really expensive bike and a cloud lifter, I would go for a workhorse mic and a better preamp so that you can have the best of both worlds kind of.

Speaker 4 (14:24):

Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, there's a lot of LDCs that are good price where you can be like a thousand dollars to $500 that are going to produce great results that are going to be awesome workhorses.

Speaker 2 (14:35):

I use the a t 40 40 like a lot and it's below 500 bucks. Yep,

Speaker 3 (14:42):

That's a good one.

Speaker 2 (14:42):

The whole asking record, all the vocals are the at 40 40, and I'm not trying to say it competes with a manly or anything like that by any means, but I think you can make gold records without U 40 sevens and without $5,000. So

Speaker 4 (15:04):

I've had some $5,000 that have actually sounded like absolute horseshit because they were the wrong mike for the wrong vocalist, for example, that manly referenced cardio. The black one is an awesome mic. If you have a female pop singer, it's super airy, but when it comes to anybody who's really SY or lispy, oh my God, it sucks. It's the wrong fit. Fit literally. Yeah. Or like a T LM 1 0 3. I absolutely hate that mic on so many singers, just so many struggles with it over the years.

Speaker 3 (15:35):

Yeah, just the other week I was in LA doing a monuments bootcamp filming and with the vocalist we shot out some mics and we ended up going with an SM seven B that just works with him, but we definitely shot out like a U 47 and stuff and some other super expensive microphones and great singer, great studio, great gear, everything but the super expensive microphones just sounded like brittle shit on him. So just because it costs a lot doesn't mean that it's going to sound like it costs a lot on the wrong source.

Speaker 4 (16:10):

Now that being said, when it works, it'll blow your fucking mind off.

Speaker 3 (16:15):

Yeah. When it works, yeah,

Speaker 2 (16:17):

That's the one thing you want to keep in mind is that some of these revelations are these discoveries. They don't happen overnight and they don't happen immediately. Sometimes it takes a little bit of time with the gear or with the plugin to discover its true value. So keep that in mind. You're not going to get the full story from a review and you're not going to get the full story from trying it for a day. What else could we talk about? We could talk about compressors because I feel like having, this is a big debate here, having a hardware compressor versus a software compressor. Obviously I think this is one of the areas where the difference between the two can be one of the biggest gaps right now because it is very hard to replicate what an analog compressor does exactly until our technology gets a little bit better. But we are at kind of a point right now where you can get away with the ness LG comp and it sounds great. However, it's one of those units where it makes sense to buy one because you're going to have one SSLG comp in your mix, maybe two if you do if drum bus. So maybe it does make sense to have the real thing. What do you think, Joel? Because you actually own one?

Speaker 4 (17:32):

Well, I've got three, two bus compressors. I've got the G comp lunchbox, I've got a roll music, 7 55 RMS Super stereo compressor, which is kind of like a more aggressive one. And then I've got the Shadow Hills, which has an Opto and a VCA side, so I guess that one's actually technically due. So four, I will say that I'm a huge fan if you're going to buy some hardware, get into hardware. To me the most important place to start would be on the two bus because the two bus affects everything. So if you are going to buy a bus compressor, you're going to get a lot of bang for your buck out of it because it's literally going to be on every single element of your mix every time you mix. And so it's a really good return on your investment and there is something really magical about a two bus compressor in my opinion.

(18:18):

Now I will say, let's talk about tracking here for a second. If you're going to buy a tracking compressor, and I feel like this is important because it's similar to my opinion on eq, I think it's important to have a tracking compressor if you want to compress going into the box to get more of that analog compression sound, not to screw it up, and it's really easy to do. So for example, I'll never track in through my 1176 Es because sometimes you get the release time or the attack time wrong and you're fiddling around and you can hit the wrong timing and then you're paying for it in the mix and it ruins all of the tracking performances. However, I am a huge, huge, huge lover of opto compressors, especially like the Shadow Hills is awesome, and some of the other ones that are a little bit more modern like the LA two A in my opinion, are a little bit slow.

(19:05):

But you can track into a compressor like that at a nice, I think two to one or three to one ratio, and you can kind of slam into your stuff and really get some of that magic, but you're not going to screw up the attack and release times of your audio and it's really hard to mess up and it's always going to sound good and add that sauce. So I think that's a really good bang for the buck is if you want to buy a compressor and you're afraid to screw it up later because you're tracking guitars for example, or tracking bass and you haven't even mixed your drums or framed them yet or your vocals or whatever, or tracking vocals any situation, starting with a good optico compressor will allow you to track in, get some nice dynamic control and analog tone, but it is not going to screw up the attack and release times in a way that are going to be unfavorable to whatever tempo of the song that you're in and it's not going to be counterproductive when you're mixing.

Speaker 3 (19:54):

I feel like a distressor is one of the very best tracking compressors ever made.

Speaker 4 (19:59):

It's amazing. But like I said, it's easy to screw up the attack and release now that one in particular compared to at 1176. The cool thing on the distress is you can really, really hear what the attack and release sound was. So it's a little bit harder to screw up, but you can still screw it up and I've done it before, so

Speaker 3 (20:18):

As we evolve, but I've had way more hits than misses with that one.

Speaker 2 (20:26):

I think the whole idea with compression, for me, I do really like having the options. So I don't like to track with compression at all. I really want to be able to experiment with compression after the fact, and I want to be able to put it up against my guitar mix, put it up against my vocal mix, what is my snare getting lost now try a heavy hand on the limiter now what is my compression? You got to consider those kind of workflows situations when you're talking about your budget because you want to make sure that you don't spend all this money on a compressor and then be limited in terms of how you can use it in your mix, especially considering that you can only, if you buy one compressor, you can only use it one time unless you have to go in and spend the extra time to commit it to recording it in and all that stuff.

(21:18):

So I don't have a lot of experience with that. So my perspective is coming from in the box point of view and I'm thinking I love the fact that I can have a virtual compressor and I can copy it and paste it as many freaking times as I want to. So for me, the cost of admission would have to fight with that ability and it would have to just sound so amazing for me to decide that it was worth spending the money on. That said though, I do like the points that you're talking about, how using it on the two bus is very important. That's your most important place to focus, at least in terms of compression where you should spend your money. I definitely agree, especially if you're someone who has to go in and say, I need the ozone advanced thing because I want to do my own mastering and now I don't have any money left over for compression or maybe I don't have any extra money to go in and buy other processors, spend the money on the expensive mastering processor and then spend a little less on the compression side for your hardware.

(22:24):

So if you're going to go out there and get mastering processors, hardware units, you're going to be spending five figures easy. Oh

Speaker 4 (22:32):

Yeah. Oh my god, it's ridiculous. So

Speaker 2 (22:34):

I mean drop a thousand bucks on ozone advanced or whatever, then go and get your bus compressor and now you have a pretty cool mix two bus chain that we could say, and I think that will be more bang for your buck rather than trying to buy both hardware, mastering processor and hardware compressor or trying to do even the mastering processing on hardware side with a virtual plugin. I think even that is not going to be the most bang. So consider that. And I like what you said earlier about tone shaping queue. That's a really good idea to put money towards, especially for your two bus.

Speaker 4 (23:16):

Yeah, I was just going to say that if you're going to get an eq, I would start off just getting a bus compressor, getting a good bus eq for example. I bought a manly massive passive, which is incredibly expensive. I think they're like four or $5,000. However you, it's got a sound and a mojo and more importantly, every time I turn it on or use it or like a Clara or whatever, my whole mix goes through it. So you're always getting the benefit of that on every single song, every single mix, so then it makes the investment more worth it. Now a budget eq, you can buy an API or something like that and you're going to get a really, really awesome sound.

Speaker 3 (23:52):

Yeah, the clarif isn't three or $4,000 either.

Speaker 4 (23:55):

Oh yeah. It's a very affordable EQ and it's really, really amazing what it does to the top end. And again, digital EQ plugins are pretty awesome, but there's something about the way it adds air. For example, I really like on the clarif, it's got that silk mode, which is like a 40,000 hertz somewhere up there bell, but when you crank that thing really high up the bottom of the bell and the curve of it kind of lifts everything else below it and it just gives that mix that air that is so hard to get with a plugin. So it has that sparkle. That's the only way I can explain it. It just does what it does and it does it really, really well. And it's not insanely expensive.

Speaker 2 (24:37):

No,

Speaker 3 (24:38):

It's great

Speaker 2 (24:39):

For those of you doing lots of mixing and lots of mixed recalls, definitely consider the recall ability of this gear. I think there's a whole process to that where if you have to jump around from mix to mix and you have a lot of different outboard gear being set up, it's a pain in the ass. Takes a lot of extra time. Definitely consider that in your budget when you're purchasing the gear.

Speaker 3 (25:00):

If all you're doing though is a two bus compression and two bus eq,

Speaker 2 (25:05):

It's not too bad.

Speaker 3 (25:06):

Clarif is a pretty simple unit and most people leave their two bus hardware compressor pretty much the same from mix to mix.

Speaker 4 (25:16):

Yeah. Once you optimize

Speaker 3 (25:18):

It. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (25:19):

Once you get the gain structure and find the point where it really pops and moves and you figure out where to hit it and you get back from it, you learn its curve, you learn how it moves and et cetera, you're getting to the optimal range back, definitely. There's no point to mess with it unless you get some crazy example of a song that just does not settle into those two bus settings.

Speaker 3 (25:41):

Yeah, I think that one thing that podcast listeners may have noticed over the past few months is that whenever we've had very intense analog guys who do a lot of modern mixing come on, they generally treat their hardware like presets. They kind of have their hardware do one thing and one thing only, and it's pretty much dialed in with a few change, a couple things here and there depending on the source material. But their tools are basically set up to do one thing and one thing only.

Speaker 4 (26:21):

Well, here's the thing though about that because sometimes you'll find a setting or a series of settings so you'll have a distress or whatever and it works really good on a bunch of different things, but suddenly you just love the way it sounds on base. No matter what you send through it, it always sounds great or maybe it's snare drum or whatever. There's usually a couple of instruments or something that you're going to habitually hit with the piece of outboard and what's going to end up happening is you're just going to fall in love with that particular unit on that source material. So once you get that and then you've got the gain structuring, then you just adjust how hard you hit it and stick with it and stay. So definitely certain pieces of gear are going to have certain areas and qualities that are really going to shine to your ear when you hear them and you're going to be like, that just sounds amazing to me. For example, I love tracking into the shadow hills with the steel or the nickel transformer on vocals. There's just something about it depending on the singer that it just, when I don't have the opto on, it just feels lackluster to me and it's missing that extra 15%. So it always gets used on tracking vocals no matter what, no matter what the chain. Same thing. I love the manly EQ on the massive passive on vocals because it just has a certain curve to it. That sounds awesome. 99% of the time,

Speaker 3 (27:41):

By the way, with the stressor. I really like Optim mode for tracking vocals.

Speaker 4 (27:45):

Yeah, the stressor. I mean it's just such a good compressor. I mean if I had to recommend one compressor, that was a good starting one before you get into the world of outboard, it would have to be a stressor. I mean they're like, what, 1350 or somewhere around there in terms of price. So it's expensive, but it's not like a $9,000 shadow hills.

Speaker 3 (28:06):

But for as many different things as it can do, it's just a great in and of itself is bang for the buck. Normally Swiss Army gear sucks. If a piece of gear is meant to do 10 different things, it'll do them mediocre should generally stay away from Swiss Army gear. That's kind of a Swiss army compressor. That's actually good.

Speaker 4 (28:28):

Yeah, it does everything good. Yeah, I'll make a whole record with all those stressors Any day it'd replace all one for me.

Speaker 3 (28:36):

How cool would that be to have all stressors?

Speaker 4 (28:38):

I wish I should just buy 30 of them and then nail the mix all stressors. God, that would be so awesome.

Speaker 2 (28:47):

So yeah, hopefully. I mean I think that's a good start in terms of how to spend your money wisely.

Speaker 3 (28:55):

We did leave one crucial thing out.

Speaker 2 (28:57):

What's that?

Speaker 3 (28:58):

Monitors?

Speaker 4 (28:59):

Monitors.

Speaker 3 (29:00):

I mean that doesn't count as outboard, but I mean

Speaker 4 (29:04):

It's a major purchasing decision and it should be addressed. So what do you guys think they

Speaker 3 (29:07):

Should be doing that before they start buying EQs or compressors?

Speaker 4 (29:12):

Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (29:12):

Is all I'm getting at.

Speaker 2 (29:13):

Yeah, I definitely agree. I think your listening environment is your biggest obstacle in terms of getting successful results, your room, the way it responds and your speakers and what's coming out of those speakers. And if you don't have a relationship with your speakers, I mean you should break up with your girlfriend and go buy a pair of speakers and build a relationship with them. Because

Speaker 3 (29:38):

I was going to say, take them on a date.

Speaker 2 (29:40):

Yeah, that's the most important thing, man. Aside from all this other stuff that we're talking about, I have

Speaker 4 (29:46):

What about snuggling with them?

Speaker 2 (29:47):

Yeah, I would take him to bed, do some cuddling, get to know 'em a little bit here because my mix has improved drastically. When I moved from what I had, which was my friend's set of speakers, he had a Beringer 2031 and they were just gaw awful. They hype the mix, they make everything sound cooler than it really is and it really screws you over because you think everything sounds good and then you go and hear it outside and you're like, oh, that's bad. I got the Adam a sevens around that turning point and was like, holy crap, everything has changed in my world. I'm hearing everything so much more realistic. And then I switched to the A seven Xs, which has better base response and then I was like, holy shit, my mixes are way too compressed. So that just those stepping stones going from the Beringer 2030 ones to the Adam A sevens and then from the Adam a sevens to the A seven Xs was like three milestones. And I am almost afraid to get another pair of monitors and have another massive milestone of like, oh, maybe getting a pair of barefoot and going, holy shit, the low end is screwed on all of my mixes. But the point is, get a great listening setup up so that you can actually hear what the fuck you're doing. I mean your ears are the number one pinpoint of everything that you're doing.

Speaker 4 (31:09):

So I think this summarize a good order is you want to get a good pair of monitors, then probably work some sort of good chain. So a good preamp, a good converter, maybe two channels. And again, you can always slave out cheaper units and then after that you can start adding some sort of outboard if you want to. And the best bang for the buck would definitely be to go right away to the two bus and then after that start doing things that are going to be used a lot in tracking

Speaker 2 (31:35):

And

Speaker 4 (31:36):

In terms of mics, get a good LDC, save up the money and a good dynamic. And I think that's a pretty good starting point

Speaker 2 (31:44):

And build out from there and really just try to get every time the opportunity comes to where you can get a mic and you notice the contention point added on. What about plugins? Because I think

Speaker 3 (31:57):

Before we go to plugins, lemme just say that just to kind of recap. One thing is start with the stuff that you do the most. So you're going to be using converters and interface the most. So you start there listening to stuff the most. So you start there and then just go down from there. That way you'll actually be able to use your gear intelligently. I just see a lot of people do shit out of order and that's kind of important if you want to get bang for the buck. Sorry to cut you off.

Speaker 2 (32:29):

No, it's fine. And then for plugin budget, I think everyone's struggling with this one, including us. I think having a great mastering plugin if you don't have access to other mastering engineers is a great investment. You definitely want to have some good solid price worthy stuff there because if you are working with free mastering processors, most likely you're probably not getting great results. I've tried a lot of stuff out there, it just does not compare to the stuff that you pay for down from there. I would say a nice solid pack from probably waves is almost required. I don't know if you agree, but I really feel like those are just solid. You need a good solid pack of waves plugins to really do some work.

Speaker 4 (33:21):

You can get a lot of mileage out of stock stuff and I mean if you guys have been watching Nail the Mix, you'll definitely notice that we can really kick a lot of ass with just whatever we have without overthinking it. But there's some really indispensable stuff in that waves like the L one or the linear MB or

Speaker 2 (33:39):

Q 10.

Speaker 4 (33:40):

Yeah, Q 10. That just is really, really cool. C one,

Speaker 3 (33:43):

I want to address something because a lot of people talk shit about waves and a lot of people think that there's better stuff out there and so they're going to avoid waves and like to argue about it on forums. It's another one of these dumb forum arguments. And yes, maybe there is a better version of an 1176 made by UAD for instance. Sure, UAD plugins are great. There's a lot of great plugins out there, but there's a reason for why successful mixers have been using Waves since Waves came out and that a lot of their plugins haven't been updated really. And people still use them. They work, they work really, really well and very efficiently and you should own them. I really do think they're indispensable. Maybe I'll should stop being assholes about it. That's a very scientific way

Speaker 2 (34:40):

To put it. I think there's a reason why nobody goes out and says, here's another Q 10 plugin because waves already mastered it. So think about that.

Speaker 3 (34:50):

Yeah, I mean look, if you're getting a recreation of analog gear, sure, try out a few different ones, but also know that just because the UAD one might be better than a waves one, the same thing exists in the analog world. When people try to remake analog gear that was already created, the original might be better than the knockoff version that you get tomorrow might be better than the second version that the original company made. The same thing exists in the analog world when people try to recreate analog gear, but for plugins that are specific to a plugin company like you guys said, like L one or Q 10 or whatever they are what they are,

Speaker 2 (35:34):

They're

Speaker 3 (35:34):

Not going to find something else that does it quite the same.

Speaker 2 (35:37):

Exactly. So hope you guys enjoyed this episode, tips and Tricks, and you will spend your money more wisely. If you have any additional questions based on what you've heard in this episode, please visit the Private Producers Club and ask us and a post and we'll try to get around to answering that soon. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll catch you next time.

Speaker 1 (36:01):

The Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast is brought to you by Line six. Line six is a musical instruments manufacturing company that specializes in Guitar, amp, and affects modeling and makes guitars, amps, effects, pedals and multi effects. We introduced the world's first digital modeling amp and we're behind the groundbreaking pod multi effect, which revolutionized the industry with an easy way to record guitar with great tone. Line six will always take dramatic leaps so you can reach new heights with your music. Go to www.linesix.com to find out more about line six. To get in touch with the URM podcast, visit urm.com/podcast and subscribe today.