JOEL WANASEK: Fixing Common Mix Mistakes, The Value of Brutal Feedback, and Why Metal is So Difficult

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast. And now your host, Eyal Levi.

Speaker 2 (00:08):

Welcome to the URM podcast. Thank you so much for being here. It's crazy to think that we are now on our seventh year. Don't ask me how that all just flew by, but it did. Man, time moves fast and it's only because of you, the listeners, if you'd like us to stick around another seven years and there's a few simple things you can do that would really, really help us out, I would endlessly appreciate if you would, number one, share our episodes with your friends. Number two, post our episodes on your Facebook and Instagram and tag me at al Levi URM audio and at URM Academy and of course our guest. And number three, leave us reviews and five star reviews wherever you can. We especially love iTunes reviews. Once again, thank you for all the years and years of loyalty. I just want you to know that we will never charge you for this podcast, and I will always work as hard as possible to improve the episodes in every single way. All we ask in return is a share a post and tag us. Oh, and one last thing. Do you have a question you would like me to answer on an episode? I don't mean for a guest. I mean for me, it can be about anything. Email it to [email protected]. That's EYAL at m dot A-C-D-E-M-Y. There's no.com on that. It's exactly the way I spelled it. And use the subject line answer me Eyal. Alright, let's get on with it. Welcome to Mix Crip Monday. I'm Eyal Levi, and with me is co-host Joel Wanasek. Hello, Joel.

Speaker 3 (01:47):

Hello Al. How are you? Good,

Speaker 2 (01:48):

Man. It's been a minute since we've done a mixed script Monday, hasn't it?

Speaker 3 (01:51):

Yeah, that's because I hate doing mixed Mondays because critiquing is kind of like a negative thing and I'm a positive dude and I understand the value of offering good feedback for somebody, but at the same time I hate doing it because it's like I feel like what I'm doing it, it's negative and I'm not trying to be negative. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (02:08):

I agree. One of the reasons that I haven't done this in a long time is because I don't like what could be seen as shooting down people's mixes, but I just want to say that we're not shooting down your mixes. I just want to open up with that. Feedback is one of the best things you could possibly get in your life if you want to actually get better at something. And so when I give feedback, I try to be as straightforward and honest as possible, even if it hurts to hear it, it's a really, really good thing. I know that in my life when I've gotten feedback from people, it was the best when they were just to the point about it. Nobody gets helped by yessing them or kissing their ass or beating around the bush. If people are submitting their mixes to the octagon, they are hoping to get some feedback so that they can get better.

(03:08):

And so if any of this sounds harsh, I don't mean the mixes, I mean our feedback, if any of this sounds harsh, just know that we are doing it with love and with the hope that the people who we are crit get better and actually learn from this. So I'll say this, we're not just going to crit your mixes. Those of you who we picked all get a free month of enhanced with one contingency during that month of enhanced, you have to book a one-on-one with Joe Scaletta. All three mixes, well, all three mixers get a free month of URM enhanced. Now, how did we pick these mixes? They're just chosen at random from the octagon. That's literally all there is to it. But should we get into it or is there anything else you want to add before we jump right in?

Speaker 3 (03:59):

I mean, I'm ready to go other than just saying the best mentors are the most that are the hardest on you, and I think it's good. People need their ass kicked for once in a while in a positive way.

Speaker 2 (04:10):

Yes. I mean, dude, seriously. Have you ever benefited from someone who could help you not being straightforward with you?

Speaker 3 (04:20):

You mean the mental I've had in my life, two people in particular were the most brutal human beings I've ever dealt with. I mean they, I would come in, one guy in particular would just scream and swear at me for an hour and a half, and I loved it. It was great because it really helped me and the band I was working with at the time to really just be focused and get our stuff together. So I like somebody that's really, really hard on me. I think it helps all of us grow.

Speaker 2 (04:45):

Yeah, absolutely. So if any of you listening take this hard or whatever, all I can say is try not to, to just listen to what we're saying, approach your mix with that in mind and give it another go. So first up, we have the mix of Jason Richardson's Upside down by Mr. Sean Faria. We'll play a couple minutes of it and then we will start our crits.

(07:13):

All right. That was the mix by Sean Faria. And I have a bunch of notes that I took on it, but I think that we should go a topic at a time. So I'll tell you the first thing I hear and then we can talk about what you're hearing too. And to me, there's two huge issues or three. First of all, there's a ton of frequency masking going on, and we can get into specifics on that. The bass guitar is way too loud, and then the balances, the choice of what is middle ground foreground and background is just all over the place. What are you thinking?

Speaker 3 (07:57):

Okay, this is going to sound harsh, but the entire mix doesn't work at all in my opinion. And what I mean by that is that if you think about a mix, think about a house. You start off with a basement and the basement foundation is poured when concrete, and then on top of that goes the wood structure and then the roof, and then the rooms, and then the drywall, the electric. So to me, there's no cohesive balance. It sounds instead of a mix, I feel like I'm listening to a bunch of random things fly around my head at random times that have no relation to each other, meaning not

Speaker 2 (08:29):

Always the eq. That's the big issue is because there's so much stuff going on in this track that without it being carved out just right, it's just like a way, it's tsunami of shit, of just musical stuff. It's produce.

Speaker 3 (08:46):

But a good mixer could really polish that. I'm sure Taylor's mix is killer on this, but it's

Speaker 2 (08:51):

Unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (08:52):

What happened, I think when he was mixing this is he didn't get the right foundation. He built on the wrong foundation, and as a result of it, for example, the base is so obnoxiously loud, it completely doesn't gel or fit in at all. It's not like the tones individually are bad, it's just that nothing works together because the balance is so out of whack that it's almost hard to hear the EQ decisions in the masking. So if he would've built the foundation a little more solid between the drums, the guitar, and the bass, and then started getting with all the fancy ear candy that comes in and out, I think it would be a much better thing. So I would actually, if I was mixing this and this is my mix, I would just reset all the faders start just by focusing on those elements and try to really get that down and then come in with all the ear candy and start placing it in because to me, the foundation is just completely not there. And it's the only way I can think of fixing it.

Speaker 2 (09:43):

I agree. And I have some specifics on balances that Sean May want to look at. We talked about the bass guitar being way too loud and that's number one, but also the symbols are buried but inconsistently buried. So I'm hearing the big symbols like China's on quarter notes or splashes or whatever they are, but on any of the intricate patterns, like when Luke Holland is a great drummer and he's a very detail oriented drummer and there's all kinds of detail all over this song, and he does all kinds of really cool patterns between his hats and the ride, and I can't hear any of that. If you compare it to Taylor's mix, that stuff is, it's not very loud, but you can hear and feel everything at two minutes. There's a tremble effect on the guitar that's just like, it's not even there at two minutes, six seconds when there's big held out chords, they're literally drowning out everything at 2 37.

(10:39):

The classical guitar is basically drowning in reverb. You can barely even tell that that's the lead line, that that's the feature in that part. When Tim from Pia has his guest spot at three minutes, 30 seconds, you can't even really hear him. And having Tim from Pia on the track, that's obviously meant to be featured, that is a big deal, but you wouldn't even know that he's on there at about four minutes, 30 seconds. I call it the Zed part. It's just not percussive enough. It doesn't jump enough. If you listen to how punchy the kick is on the original, it really, really drives it. But the volume of the bass guitar on this just completely eliminates any of the energy, any of the punch. And I hear the baseline super loud and it's a cool baseline but no kick. And so I could go on and on and on and on, but basically there isn't one moment in the song where the balances aren't somehow messed up.

(11:40):

What I would do, just to piggyback off of what Joel said, is for every part in the song, since there is so much going on, it's always changing, go section by section and decide what the most important elements are. What are you supposed to be focusing on? And you're in luck because there's already a mix done and released that was approved by the artist. So you already, you have a guide already as to what the most important elements are. Don't try to change that. Why would you change that? Jason Richardson already signed off on the original mix so you know exactly how he's envisioning hearing this. And you always got to keep the artists in mind. If you're mixing something that hasn't been released, you're kind of doing a lot of guesswork, but when you're doing a nail the mix, you already have the mix that's been released to use as I would consider it a really, really good rough or really good production mix and use that as your guide. You have anything else to add, Joel?

Speaker 3 (12:50):

I mean, I think that's all spot on. I would say this may seem obvious to some people, but really when you're working with an artist, think about what that artist is famous for and Jason Richardson is a guitar player, and given the other powerful players on the track that have big names still it's track. So the song should be about Jason, unless there's a feature, and I don't hear that on the balance. Why is the bass player the bass instrument, and I don't know who played on the track or if it's programmed or whatever, but why is that louder than the guitars or Luke or, you know what I'm saying? It shouldn't be because that's not what it's like. The spotlight has shined in the wrong thing and you got to pay attention to who should be in the spotlight on the stage. Only one person can be in the spotlight at a time.

Speaker 2 (13:32):

Yep, absolutely. So I suggest, like Joel said, just zero it out, start all over. I guarantee you that if you focus on this stuff, it'll be better. Hey, everybody, if you're enjoying this podcast, then you should know that it's brought to you by URM Academy, URM Academy's mission is to create the next generation of audio professionals by giving them the inspiration and information to hone their craft and build a career doing what they love. You've probably heard me talk about Nail the Mix before, and if you're a member, you already know how amazing it is. The beginning of the month, nail the mixed members, get the raw multi-tracks to a new song by artists like Lama, God Angels and Airwaves. Knock loose OPEC Shuga, bring me the Horizon. Gaira asking Alexandria Machine Head and Papa Roach among many, many others over 60 at this point.

(14:25):

Then at the end of the month, the producer who mixed it comes on and does a live streaming walkthrough of exactly how they mix the song on the album and takes your questions live on air. And these are guys like TLA Will Putney, Yenz Borin, Dan Lancaster to Mattson, Andrew Wade, and many, many more. You'll also get access to Mix Lab, which is our collection of dozens of bite-sized mixing tutorials that cover all the basics as well as Portfolio Builder, which is a library of pro quality multi-tracks cleared for use in your portfolio. So your career will never again be held back by the quality of your source material. And for those of you who really want to step up their game, we have another membership tier called URM Enhance, which includes everything I already told you about, and access to our massive library of fast tracks, which are deep, super detailed courses on intermediate and advanced topics like game staging, mastering low end and so forth.

(15:23):

It's over 500 hours of content. And man, let me tell you, this stuff is just insanely detailed and enhanced. Members also get access to one-on-ones, which are basically office hour sessions with us and Mix Rescue, which is where we open up one of your mixes and fix it up and talk you through exactly what we're doing at every step. So if any of that sounds interesting to you, if you're ready to level up your mixing skills in your audio career, head over to URM Academy to find out more. Okay, this second mix is by Brecken Phillips. Let's listen.

(17:56):

That was the mix by Brecken Phillips. And when I was getting my notes together for this, I actually, I hate to say it, but I had to stop listening to this one because it was really painful. The high mids and eyes were literally making my ears hurt. And I don't mean that in a judgmental way. I didn't like the mix. It made my ears hurt. It literally made my ears hurt. There's a super painful high end in it. You can really tell at about 35 seconds when the band comes in. And I would say that the biggest offenders are the snare and the kick. So they're not only too loud, but the high end is so jacked on them that every single time you have a snare hit, it just kind of hurts my eyes a little bit. What about you, Joel?

Speaker 3 (18:48):

Okay, I think we agree. I mean, the first thing I noticed right away is the eq. I mean, aside from the balance being off and drums in space to bring it back from a couple of years ago, I think what happened is this, he got into it and he eqd the kick in the snare, so freaking bright and just outrageously transient that he had to crank everything else to match the top in which he still, the rest of the mix for that level of brightness is actually undercooked, but it's already super harsh and super bright in the guitars as a result of that. And the result is it just way overbearing? So the first step one is take the drums way down in volume, take the top end and roll it back considerably, and then you'll be able to get the guitars, bass and everything else to work together and to sound better.

(19:33):

I mean, the drums are just too cliquey and disconnected. It's like a good thing to think about is symbols and drums. Even in the loudest kick drum snare drum mix I've ever heard in my life that's mixed by an Alister, it still sounds like a drum kit where the drums are connected to the symbols and they gel and they lock. When I listen to this, I hear kick drum snare drum up here and everything else way down here. And it's literally, it's just like a kick and snare solo. And again, whose song is this? Is it Luke Collins Foot in his snare hand? No, it's not. The song is Jason Richardson's song. That's a funny way to put it. It's not a kick in snare solo. This isn't drum and bugle core.

Speaker 2 (20:12):

Have you ever been in a band practice where the drummer is getting set up and they hit the snare a few times and it literally hurts your eyes? Do you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 3 (20:25):

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (20:25):

You're standing there and it's like, oh shit, it hurts my face. That's what this reminded me of. It reminded me of being in a band practice and physically feeling it in my eyes. So that right there, it's not a good sign. And I do agree with you about overcooking something and then having to overcompensate. This is something that happens a lot when I'm listening to people's mixes. They'll overcook the low end, for instance, it'll get unruly. And so instead of fixing that, they will boost the shit out of the high end and the mids and you end up getting a mix that's not only farty and tubby and unruly, but also painful, like the weirdest combination of elements. But I agree with Joel, bring the snare and the kick down. Roll off some of those or just reduce those highs that you boosted and kind of go from there or just start all over.

(21:29):

With this in mind, I don't think there's anything wrong with starting all over. And I remember earlier in the week, there was somebody in the group who was super discouraged about having to start over. And what I was thinking, and I even said this in a comment, was that if the greatest mixers in the world got discursion enough to quit whenever they had to start a mix over, there wouldn't be, those people wouldn't be professional mixers. Every single great mixer, I know everybody has some percentage of mixes that they restart, and some of 'em will tell you that every single mix just about or 90% of the mixes they do. And these are people that you listen to, you love their mixes, they don't feel like they really have a mix until they have mix the song hated their life and started from scratch. And then that round two is where they feel the mix really comes together. There's some of the very best mixers in the world do that. So when we say to start again, we don't mean that as a bad thing. Oftentimes that is what you need to do. Anytime I've done it, it comes out better.

Speaker 3 (22:42):

I have a very good short relevant story. I'll keep it concise. Last Friday I was mixing a band that's been on several very large labels and they've worked with mixers like Colin Brit. I mean they've been through the whole big budget gamut and I'm mixing a song for them and they self-produced it and the singer had the wrong mic for the voice. So it took me four hours of mixing and about eight different types of vocal chains that I had to custom create to literally figure out and find the right sound to get this awesome. I wanted to pop my eyes out and smash my head through the wall. But when I got done with it, the singer said, this is the best I think I've ever sounded. And I'm just like, oh. So I had to restart the vocal mix literally eight times over four hours just to get something that was acceptable to my ear. And then I basically got on the phone and I made him spend like $8,000 on a new chain. So next time he sends me a song to mix, we don't have that problem ever again. So perfect timing.

Speaker 2 (23:35):

That's the thing to do anytime you don't like a mix, just make someone spend $8,000.

Speaker 3 (23:41):

He's got to get the right mic and the right, you know what I mean? What he's got isn't working at all.

Speaker 2 (23:45):

He's

Speaker 3 (23:46):

The pro, so he's got the money.

Speaker 2 (23:47):

Yeah, I get it. We talk a lot about ears first, ears over gear, et cetera, all that stuff. And while I do very much believe it, gear does matter and there is a certain point where you're not going to get the result you're after with the wrong gear. Now that's not to say that if you're sucking that you're going to not suck if you get different gear, but it's more that if you're going for something very, very specific and you're just not nailing it, it definitely could be a gear issue. It could be

Speaker 3 (24:25):

This case. It definitely was. Alright, should we jam the next one?

Speaker 2 (24:28):

Yep, let's move on. Okay, this last one is by Theo Rego. Oro. Or I'm sorry if I didn't pronounce it right. My bad. Alright, here goes.

(26:36):

All right. I'll read you my notes just based off of the intro. The low end in this one is too big. However, this thing I was talking about earlier, making the low end too big and then compensating with the high end, you can really hear that on the click, I mean on the kick because it's way too clicky. And what I'm noticing when people make the low end too big, what they do is, so they'll compensate by adding too much painful, high and mid information, and they will make things way too punchy. Sometimes things can be too punchy. This one is actually so punchy, it's hard to focus. And if you compare it to Taylor's mix, Taylor's mix is actually pretty punchy, but it's nowhere near as punchy as this. It's overall way, way, way warmer. I do feel like the mastering chain is absolutely nuking the shit out of this. What do you think, Joel?

Speaker 3 (27:37):

Yeah, I mean, I agree. I actually have a slightly different take on the bottom end. So the first thing I noticed is that the mix is pumping a lot in terms of the compression. And then as I start listening and analyzing, the low end is weird to me because for you it might feel big and punchy, but to me it feels kind of weak and thin in a weird way. But it's pumping the mix compressor. So I've got a pretty good sub and maybe I just didn't jam it loud enough.

Speaker 2 (28:04):

I agree with you. I didn't think that it sounded big in the good way. I just hear a lot of low information and it's inconsistent and unruly.

Speaker 3 (28:12):

Yeah, it's like it's out of control down there. And then the drums, again, the balance is way off in this mix in a lot of things. So if we go up the chain here, the drums are super cliquey. It's like a kick drum solo almost. But the thing that got me the most is that I like that he balanced with Jason Richardson in mind and made it about the guitar player. But the problem is he overcooked it and made it like the Jason Show. And for Disregarded, it's like a mixing for Christian rock radio. It's like band vocals and it's like, well, hold on, can we just bring the vocals on a little bit so we can even hear the band? And I feel like the guitars are just swallowing the mix and as a result, the leads and the guitars, they don't gel and they feel like they're out of space and they're a little bit harsh in the frequency range.

(28:57):

So it's a weird combination for me because it's like the drums kind of don't really work and the bottom end is pumping and isn't really working. And the guitars are super loud, but they're a little harsh and they completely don't gel together in terms of the space and the ambience. So this is another one where I bring everything back down, hit reset, and try to reframe the house and the structure from the beginning. I hate to be three for three today on this, but I would readjust the way that I'm approaching this if it were me

Speaker 2 (29:22):

Three opportunities to turn these into killer mixes, though. It's

Speaker 3 (29:26):

True. Yeah. Don't get discouraged by hitting reset. I mean, it happens all the time.

Speaker 2 (29:30):

Yeah. Now I want to remind everybody that Sean Brecken and Theo all get a free month of enhanced on the condition that you take a one-on-one with a Joe Scaletta to talk about this mix and take it to the next level. And in order to claim your month of enhanced, just go to urm support.com and submit a ticket and we will get you that month of enhanced if you would like it to be featured. Meaning those of you watching, if you want to be on mixed script Monday, the way to get on mixed script Monday is to just post your mix in the rock toon and we will pick it out of there that it's all you have to do. And I realize that it's kind of scary to submit for something like this or to, it's like asking to basically get beat up, but I guarantee you, Sean, Brecken and Theo are all going to be better for it. You have any final thoughts on all this, Joel? Yeah. I

Speaker 3 (30:34):

Mean, look, this is a really hard song to mix, period, because it's, like I said, from a production and arrangement point of view, it's almost a dumpster fire. I mean, there's too much shit going on for most genres of music. Obviously these guys know what they're doing and they have their stuff super dialed in and they're able to pull it off. But I feel like this would kill 98% of producers. So even being able to sit down and have the guts to get in and try to mix something like this and really putting in the time, I think shows a lot of strength and courage and it's a very good and positive thing. So this song kicked your butts, but honestly, this song will kick a lot of people's butts. This is not an easy song to mix. This is one of the hardest things because it's not like you've got a simple Panera riff and a really nice simple groove drumbeat and a fat base. You're all over the place with all types of elements and ear candy and intricate parts, and it's shred city. So this is a really, really hard song to mix. It's really challenging. And at the end of the day, despite how the mix has turned out and where they can improve, it takes a lot of patience to mix something like this. And I think it's a great challenge, and that's how you get better by challenging yourself. So you just got to keep working at it and you're going to improve.

Speaker 2 (31:38):

Yeah, absolutely. I will just echo that. This is definitely some of the hardest stuff you could ever try to mix, so I would not take it too hard. But don't be too hard on yourself. Just try again. Metal is already the hardest genre on earth to mix, but when you add all these different elements that shouldn't work in a metal song at this kind of speed, it's a real fucking challenge. Just keep trying. This is the stuff that will make you better. Alright, thanks for watching everybody. We will see you at the next mixed Crip Monday. I just want to remind everybody that to be on Mixed Crip Monday, all you need to do is submit your mix at the Rock Toon and everyone who we pick is going to get a free month of enhanced with the condition that they take a one on one with Joe Colletta.

(32:29):

We'll see you next time. Alright, then another URM podcast episode in the bag. Please remember to share our episodes with your friends as well as post them to your Facebook and Instagram or any social media you use. Please tag me at al Levi URM audio at URM Academy, and of course tag our guests as well. I mean, they really do appreciate it. In addition, do you have any questions for me about anything? Email them to me at al at URM Academy. That's EYAL at ur dot aca DMY. And use the subject line answer me Eyal. Alright then. Till next time, happy mixing.

Speaker 1 (33:10):

You've been listening to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast. To ask us questions, make suggestions and interact, visit URM Academy and press the podcast link today.