Diego Farias: Winning Latin Grammys, Kemper vs. Axe-Fx, Polishing a Trash Can

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Joey Sturgiss tones, creating unique audio tools for musicians and producers everywhere. Unleash your creativity with Joey Sturgiss tones. Visit joey sturgis tones.com for more info. And now your hosts, Joey Sturgis, Joel Wanasek and

Speaker 2 (00:00:22):

Eyal Levi. Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast. I am Eyal Levi and with me is special guest Diego Farias from Volumes. He's a producer out of Los Angeles and you know him for working with bands like Veil of Maya, Chelsea Grin, animals as Leader Structure Straight from the Path Bermuda, and of course all the volumes albums, but he also makes Beats and works on all kinds of different genres of music and was even the recipient of two Latin Grammy awards for his work with Juan Gabrielle, including Album of the Year, which is the highest honor you can get. Comes from a musical family, son of Gustavo Ferez, which is a very, very accomplished Latin music producer. I mean, pretty cool background. You've got there, man. And thanks for being with us.

Speaker 3 (00:01:18):

Thank you, brother. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:01:19):

Yeah, my pleasure. And nice that we finally could meet up and do this because we've been trying for over a month.

Speaker 3 (00:01:27):

Yeah, it was tough. I was on the road and things just, I'm glad it finally happened.

Speaker 2 (00:01:33):

Likewise, and sorry I missed you at Nam last week before we started recording, Diego was telling me that he went to Nam, but it tired him the fuck out. And I feel you on that because man, I feel like Nam takes so much energy out of me. I think it's not just the walking, you have to be constantly on talking to people nonstop for hours and hours. Plus you're surrounded by so much noise. It's like a giant guitar center on steroids with drums going at all times and from all directions.

Speaker 3 (00:02:15):

Oh yeah, man, when I got back home, I just went one day, but when I got back I was beat. I went straight to bed and I even felt it the next day just from, I don't know, man, just you exert a lot of energy for

Speaker 2 (00:02:28):

Sure. Well, this was my first year going as I guess an exhibitor because I work with JST and we had a booth. You had a booth and I wasn't tied to the booth or anything, but I still had to be there part of the time. And man, it's fucking intense because I guess when I would go as a musician, I always had the option of hiding if I felt like hiding, I could just go back to my hotel,

Speaker 4 (00:02:56):

But

Speaker 2 (00:02:57):

Not this time. So do you feel like going is worth it for you though at this point, or was it ever worth it for you?

Speaker 3 (00:03:05):

Yeah, a hundred percent. I think it's really cool to go check out. I kind of spend most of my time in the software section. It's cool to see all these plugin companies come and they showcase what they're about to release this next year. And sometimes you get to use and hear plugins that aren't even out yet and software that isn't even out yet. And then cool people come and give speeches. It's cool to come watch and learn. It helps you stay intact with what's up and coming this year. And it is just for us nerds. That's nerdy musicians. We get a kick out of it.

Speaker 2 (00:03:38):

I guess the talk now is what Slate just announced. Did you see that?

Speaker 3 (00:03:43):

I saw some of it. Yeah. It's like a virtual recording studio.

Speaker 2 (00:03:46):

Yeah, it looks pretty ridiculous. I feel like that was the main talk of, I guess everyone that I know. That was the number one thing that they were talking about was the virtual recording studio.

Speaker 3 (00:04:00):

It seemed interesting. I talked to the dudes over at Slave for a little bit. I guess they have an interface coming out and it works good with their virtual recording mic, the mic they put out that models every other mic and it's pretty accurate. It's crazy. I don't know how they did that, but I'm sure you sound like you know more of it than I do.

Speaker 2 (00:04:19):

No, I'm actually trying to get the info out of you because I didn't get a chance to actually go to the Slate booth. So tell me if I'm right. So this thing works with their microphone and has probably models a bunch of preamps too, right?

Speaker 3 (00:04:36):

Yeah. I'm not sure if it models preamps. I'm assuming it does, but I guess it's the first time plates releasing an interface. I guess it's synchronized with the microphone. They release the virtual microphone. It models like it's like a microphone. You buy it and you can model a U 87, U 47, a whole bunch of mics. And I remember a couple years ago I went to NAM and they had a real fat U 47 next to the Slate one and they had 'em together and he would, Steven Slate was recording audio into them and then he'd play it back and you couldn't tell the difference. It was scary. Good.

Speaker 2 (00:05:12):

And I love that technology is at that point now. I remember when I guess the first wave of modeling stuff came out and it was such a disaster like with the original pod or there was actually on tires. I believe they make autotune. They first made a microphone modeling software where it was supposed to do that in 2005 or something. But it was terrible, man. It was fucking awful. And so I just remember for the longest time, all this modeling stuff was just a joke. And then I got a Kemper in 2012 or something right before it was released and I was like, wow, yeah, this is the future. It's actually good now.

Speaker 3 (00:06:01):

I use Kemper on our new record and I was blown away by, it's crazy how fast you can get shit to sound good on it. And that's what kind of sold it to me because I've been an Ax Effects user for a while now, and I just with X effects, I have to spend a lot of time dialing in tones. And I felt like with the Kemper, we downloaded some profiles and then tweaked them a little bit and within 15, 20 minutes we had a recordable tone that we could actually, some of it might've even made it to the final mixes.

Speaker 2 (00:06:35):

So you didn't actually even model an amp, you just downloaded tones?

Speaker 3 (00:06:39):

No, yeah, we just downloaded profiles online.

Speaker 2 (00:06:41):

Do you remember which ones? Because I know the audience is going to be curious about that.

Speaker 3 (00:06:47):

I think, I don't remember the exact names, but they were 51 50 modelers. We downloaded a bunch of PV stuff for the heavy tones. I think it was Brown face for some of the clean tones. But actually a lot of the leads we ended up using guitar Rig five just because I feel like Guitar Rig five, the way it sounds, it kind of sits for lead work. It kind of sits nice and mixes and it is cool. It has all the built-in delays and effects. And to have that all in a plugin is just kind of like, I don't know. It's better for you. It's easier for my workflow.

Speaker 2 (00:07:19):

I've never used Guitar Rig five, but Oh really? The guys, yeah. But it's just for some reason there's so many different amp sims out there. That's just the one that I've never used.

Speaker 3 (00:07:31):

No, it's great. It's great. I mean, I know Joey just released a new one that I love that one too. I just got it.

Speaker 2 (00:07:38):

The Jason Richardson Tone Forge.

Speaker 3 (00:07:40):

Oh, I haven't gotten that one yet, but I have the Ben Bruce and then I think I have the OG Tone Forge.

Speaker 2 (00:07:47):

So do you have guilty pleasure?

Speaker 3 (00:07:50):

No, I don't. Wait, is that the original

Speaker 2 (00:07:54):

Guilty

Speaker 3 (00:07:55):

Man is the one I have. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:07:56):

Yeah, it's good. But Guilty Pleasure is different. I'll make sure you get that. And the Jason Richardson one.

Speaker 3 (00:08:03):

Cool.

Speaker 2 (00:08:04):

Yeah, I'll send you that after this podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:08:06):

Yeah, it's funny. I was just talking to Jason earlier today. I hit him up. I had some guitar questions for him,

Speaker 2 (00:08:13):

Like playing questions?

Speaker 3 (00:08:14):

No, just some guitar spec questions because he knows everything about Ernie Balls. He made me get an Ernie Ball back in the day, four years ago. We were on the first tour he did with Chelsea Grin and on that tour he convinced me to get an Ernie Ball. He is like, no, I was playing Shechter at the time and he made me buy one. And it's funny, I mean I'm with Ivanez right now, but I tracked a lot of the heavier stuff on the Ivanez, but a lot of the lighter stuff and there's a lot lighter stuff and a lot of the solo work on our new record, it's all done with an any ball.

Speaker 2 (00:08:46):

I think that they make great guitars, great strings, great basses. And we're going to hang out with Jason this coming weekend for now, the Mix and

Speaker 3 (00:08:56):

Really?

Speaker 2 (00:08:56):

Yeah, because Taylor Larson's doing it. And we're going to Maryland to hang out with Taylor, but Jason lives there too, so he'll be with us. I want to try one of his guitars. I haven't gotten the chance. So tell me more about Guitar Rick five though. Because from I've only, it's one of those plugins that either guys I really respect use it or guys that I know totally suck use it. No,

Speaker 3 (00:09:25):

I mean I was an OG use man. I've been on guitar for a minute now. The first volume zep, the concept of dreaming, that's actually all that was a hundred percent guitar, R three. And then for Via, we used GTR and guitar R three and we kind of blended that. And then for no sleep, I used Ax effects.

Speaker 2 (00:09:43):

Dude, you're the second guy to tell me on this podcast that they used GTR. The other guy was Michael Keane.

Speaker 3 (00:09:51):

Really?

Speaker 2 (00:09:52):

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:09:53):

Yeah, it's great. I mean, it's great for tracking demos. It is low latency, it does have a sharp sound to it, like a high mid thing that it kind of bugs me sometimes. But honestly what I was for a while on my template, my go do template for writing for volumes or for whatever band I had, guitar rig, no, it was GTR and I would go to shredder and I'd keep everything at 12. And then I put the Pro Tools Gate Expander, and on that expander there's a preset called Noisy Instrument. And you click that lower the threshold just a little bit, and then I'd run it through a plugin eq, like a WA Renaissance EQ six. I cut off some low end and boost a one or 2K, a couple db, and then I just run the GTR shredder preset on 12. And it sounded great.

(00:10:45):

And honestly, I think we put out one of the volumes, the Vale Pre-Pro, which some people think it sounds better than the final mix. That's just straight GTR on shredder with literally at everything at 12 o'clock. I think I might've boosted tweaked the trouble knob a little bit, but that was cool. But back to your question, with GTR, I love GTR. I don't know if it could compete with the Kemper for final mixes, but if you're just on the go and you have a laptop with you or whatever, it's a great portable plugin that gets the job done. There's an amp modeler on guitar five, I think it's the ultrasonic, and I use that a lot. And then it has this psychic delay and it's like a stereo delay and it sounds really nice. I love it for leads. The notes resonate really well. That's what I like about Guitar five or just all the guitar rigs, the notes you play, even when you have a heavy tone, they resonate well and you can hear the notes. And so you could still be heavy, but it keeps it musical and it allows you to keep that balance where it's heavy, but you're playing notes at the same time, so you want 'em to be heard.

Speaker 2 (00:11:55):

So there's a high ratio of note to I guess, distortion.

Speaker 3 (00:12:00):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:12:00):

Or I don't know what to call that, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Just a lot of note in the tone.

Speaker 3 (00:12:06):

Yeah, it is something I find with plugging guitar amps, the notes resonate well, but especially in Guitar five,

Speaker 2 (00:12:13):

I think it's because with Amp Sims, the entire tone is built off of a di, right? It's not a microphone picking up air. It's actually the pure guitar signal. So I feel like sometimes with Amp Sims even, there's so much note in there that you can sometimes hear the clean, you can hear the di through the amp sim even.

Speaker 4 (00:12:41):

And

Speaker 2 (00:12:41):

Sometimes I feel like I need to EQ that out, but once you EQ that out, you have the perfect amount of note with distorted tone.

Speaker 3 (00:12:52):

It's cool. That's the advantage of using a guitar sim in my head. Obviously over the years I've gone back and forth, back and forth, back and forth because a lot of, for the volumes records on the final mixes for everything that we've released other than No Sleep, and I guess feels good. Our latest single, it's all been guitar simulators. I definitely back them. They're a good route. But I mean, honestly, nowadays with Kemper now you have Kemper and Ax effects. You can't really fuck with those.

Speaker 2 (00:13:24):

No, not really. I mean, so with my Kemper, most of the tones that I used were actually modeled from Amps. And I guess when it first came out, lots of guys didn't trust that it would sound good. And I was working at a studio called Audio Hammer, and we had a lot of older school death metal bands coming through and bands that were like Amp purists, and we would do these abs with them. This is the model tone, this is the 51 50. Guess which one is which? And they would typically guess it wrong because we could get the Kemper to sound better than the Amp often.

Speaker 3 (00:14:05):

Yeah, I'm not surprised, man. I've had the same results with Kemper. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (00:14:10):

And you can use it on the road.

Speaker 3 (00:14:12):

You could take it on the road with you. And there's something about the Kemper that even the ax effects doesn't have the artifact. Something about your tone, the artifacts, it has the same artifacts you would hear on a reamp if you're miking it up. It's crazy what they did. I don't know how they do it, but I definitely back Kemper a hundred percent, especially for studio, because in the studio it's kind like you're putting everything under a magnifying glass. People are going to be hearing it through their car stereos and headphones and isolated environments. So it's a huge advantage.

Speaker 2 (00:14:48):

It's the only one of the amp sims that I know of where the Guitar amp purists that I've had to work with will sit down and plug in and be like, wow, it feels like an amp.

Speaker 3 (00:14:59):

Oh yeah, for sure. And I'll even go as far as to say that I feel like even Ax effects can't reproduce that as well as Kemper. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:15:07):

I agree. And it's interesting what you said about ax effects that you feel like there's so much more tweaking involved. Me and Andrew Wade were talking about this at some point that it feels like with ax effects, you can sit there for two hours and just tweak and tweak and tweak, and it doesn't necessarily get better. It just gets different. It's

Speaker 3 (00:15:31):

Annoying. Yeah, I can agree more for sure.

Speaker 2 (00:15:33):

It pisses me off like, what am I doing? I feel like a guitar tone, you should be able to get it within 15 to 30 minutes. That's

Speaker 3 (00:15:43):

What I'm saying. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:15:44):

If you don't get it that quickly, something's wrong. Maybe you're using the wrong guitar or you pick the wrong amp or the wrong pickups or the wrong player, just something's wrong. And unless if you're using an ax effects, and then it might take you two hours or three hours.

Speaker 3 (00:16:05):

Also, what happens is if you're sitting there dialing in tones, man, after 30, 45 minutes, your judgment is impaired.

Speaker 4 (00:16:13):

Yes.

Speaker 3 (00:16:14):

It's like you don't have that energy. You're not looking. It kind of gets washed away after 45 minutes of just tone searching or whatever. But I've done some gnarly sessions with ax effects, man, I remember for no sleep, I did a couple days straight where I was eight hours a day, just the whole day. All I did was just dial in tones and work on the same patch. And that's why I want to started using Kemper. And we got a tone in 20 minutes. I was like, holy shit. No. Yeah, this is my jam right here. But I mean, X effects is cool. It's really cool for live, because once you dial in that tone, it's great that it works with midi. So I have all my MIDI patch changes programmed on the computer, and I have that hooked up to my X effects, so I don't even have to do anything. They just change for me. And it's really great with effects. You get stereo effects, you get really nice reverbs. You can think a producer, like an engineer, the way you would mix with your ax effects. So it is cool. It is like a computer for the guitar. So it's cool.

Speaker 2 (00:17:16):

I do love its effects. I will say that. And I do love its ax at it. That program is fucking sick. Yeah, for sure. I wish that a Kemper had something like that.

Speaker 3 (00:17:29):

They just have the profiler, huh?

Speaker 2 (00:17:31):

Yeah, and I haven't seen anything quite on par with Ax at it.

(00:17:38):

If you're a creative person and you want to, okay, so I feel like the kinds of tones that we're talking about being tough to make on the acts effects or rhythm are your straight of head rhythm heavy tones. Those are the ones that I have a hard time with. But when it comes to making crazy sounds or something or cleans or whatever, I feel like you can get really creative shit with the Axe effects if you use ax at it, if a creative person can really have a good time with it. But when it comes to the standard tones, like your meat and potatoes, the tones that are going to be like 80% of your guitar tones on the album, I'd rather not use an ax effects.

Speaker 3 (00:18:20):

No, for sure. See, that's where Kemper really, in my opinion, based on my experience, that's what it really excels. And that's like I'm a simple guy, man, don't really, I'm not too crazy with effects. I love delays. I love reverbs. I love compression. But all in all, you can do a lot of that post. And if your meat and potatoes, the way you set it isn't set or it's not right, it's kind of like everything else is secondary to that.

Speaker 2 (00:18:48):

So let's switch gears. I want to talk a little bit about how you balance things in your life, because you work on a bunch of different things. I mean, you've got a band, which is a real band, not just some local band. You're in a band that's one of the well-known bands in the genre. You

Speaker 3 (00:19:08):

Tour a lot.

Speaker 2 (00:19:10):

Tour a lot, yeah. Active. But you've also got a production career. And lots of times people who are in heavy bands also produce heavy bands, which you do. But at the same time, you have a whole other career working on hip hop or Latin music, and it's so hard for metal guys to get work outside of metal. But it seems like that's just what you do. How do you balance all that? That's a ton of shit.

Speaker 3 (00:19:38):

Yeah, man. I mean, I feel like initially, man, I'm kind of like an a DD person in a good way. I think it's, my mind works in kind of blocks. I do play in a metal band, and we are established, and I've toured with the band for the last five, six years, and it's been a hell of a ride to get it built up. But growing up in my family, I was always around a lot of different styles of music. My bass was always recording and production from an early age, I never wanted to be limited to one genre or one thing. And even when volumes was first taking off back then, I was still, even though I was producing volumes and recording other bands, I still, I would record hip hop or I would start pop projects with singers in my area or anyone I knew.

(00:20:36):

I've always been working with people that like music. And from working with other people, I learn a lot. So it's kind of just always been a thing. And it is cool that five, six years down the road, it's all kind of paid off and it is just like things take time to build and some things kind of blow up faster than others. And I think volumes just kind of got out there. And then later on now that my other stuff is kind of gotten shed some light, people are starting to realize, oh shit, this guy also does other stuff. But balancing it all, it's a huge challenge because I'm always going on tour and it's always, things are always hectic, but it's kind of like I just, as soon as I get back from tour, I just focus and force myself, force myself to focus on my other projects and balancing things out, scheduling things out the right way.

(00:21:32):

But I think, dude, at the end of the day, it all comes down to my passion for music, man. I just love doing this shit. So when I wake up, whether it's metal, hip hop, pop or whatever, I'm stoked to do it. At the end of the day, if you go on tour for two months and you're at home for two, three months, if you wake up and work on music every day, that's two, three months worth of work. And eventually through the years you end up allotting a lot of time to different things. The last year I started working with this rapper, pya, and he kind of gave me a shot at making beats for him. And that was really cool, man. And honestly, having this studio and just knowing my way with engineering and just being proficiently trained, engineering and producing, knowing my way with software and listening to a lot of different types of music. I don't really listen to metal. I kind of get my metal fixed just from writing volumes and touring. But obviously when I first started the band, I was a huge, that was mostly what I listened to. But even before I even got into metal, I was listening to a lot of hip hop, a lot of rock.

Speaker 2 (00:22:42):

So would you say that volumes has just always been one piece of the pie? I guess just one piece of all these different things that you do. And like you said, it just happened to take off first so people know you for it, but you've always done a ton of stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:23:02):

Yeah, yeah. I've always been deeply passionate about hip hop, deeply passionate about honestly pop. And like I said, honestly, I learned a lot from working with other people. So when I was a kid growing up in high school and I learned how to record, I started recording bands and then I'd just find other people that were cool at music through school or through friends or local musicians, and I would just work with them. And I learned a lot just from sitting in the studio, seeing the way people approach music. Also always putting myself in a situation to where I'm forced to get better. It's beneficial to surround yourself with people who keep you on your toes, who are just as good, if not better than you.

Speaker 2 (00:23:51):

Dude, I kind of live my life by that. When I was in a band, I tried to be the worst musician in the band, and it worked for us. I mean, we got signed and everything, and I feel like all of that is due to I put together a fucking awesome band because the goal was basically, if I'm better than you, you don't belong in this band. Not that good at guitar, in my opinion. And with my business now, I kind of feel the same way. I want to be the dumbest dude in the room with my partners, and I'm always blown away by how smart they are. And I feel like

Speaker 3 (00:24:28):

It's a good position to be in because it is. You're always learning. And it's kind like the school of life. I absorb so much from working with other people, man, it's crazy. That's kind of been my school, and obviously growing up with my father who has all these, he does a lot of stuff, and he gave me a good peace of mind growing up. When I first picked up a guitar and I was first starting to play, he told me real musicians played a click practice to click, learn your songs, everything you're playing, have a tempo, learn how to keep it right. But even with saying that, I took what he would tell me, and obviously everyone's their own person, and he was never really in the medal. I kind of got, honestly, my big brother got Gus, who's in volumes, a singer. He got me in the medal. So I have to thank him for that.

Speaker 2 (00:25:19):

So do you think that working, I mean, growing up with a dad who's as accomplished as your dad, is that that pushed you or do you think it's more just you were around it? So you got into it? The reason I'm asking is because my dad's a pretty well-known orchestral conductor, and so I grew up in that environment just around lots of classical soloists, always going to concerts, traveling for concerts, music all the time. And even though it was imposed on me some, I just gravitated towards it. I wanted to do it

Speaker 3 (00:25:58):

100%. Man, I feel like I'm so lucky. I was born into this environment where I had access to recording studio and people with the knowledge of music. But aside from that, I got obsessed with music regardless of that, whether I would've had that or not. I got obsessed with music at an early age, so I just took everything I could around me and learned as much as I could. I remember as a kid, by the time I was 12, I was freaking out at the fact that I could be around a recording studio. So by the time I was 12, 13, I was already using Pro Tools and going to the studio and bugging the engineer, just annoying the shit out of him, asking every single little tiny question, kind of getting in the way of things. That definitely helped me out. So I'd say it's definitely both. I also had friends growing up that their families might've not been musical, but their love for music and their passion drove them to learn everything. Because you could have all this stuff around you, but if you're not motivated and you're not driven to learn, to really struggle and push yourself as hard as your peers or the people that you want to be push themselves personally, you won't get there.

Speaker 2 (00:27:20):

There's definitely, I guess, an advantage to being born into it

Speaker 3 (00:27:23):

Oh percent,

Speaker 2 (00:27:25):

But it doesn't guarantee you anything.

Speaker 3 (00:27:27):

It doesn't guarantee you anything. You still have to learn and struggle, but having that information readily accessible is a huge major key to learning. But if you don't have it accessible to you, as easy as people like you or I did, you have the internet nowadays, you could go to school and you got to just really try man and really think for yourself. And no one's ever going to lay anything out. No one's ever going to hand you anything. You kind of have to, not kind of, but you have to go out there and get it's going to. And then even if you do accomplish shit, people are going to try to fucking, there's going to be situations and rocks along the road, however you want to say it. There's just going to be, you got to learn from your failures. No one's perfect. Everyone's going to fuck up at some point with any little things, small things. It is how you learn from your failures, I think allow you to succeed.

Speaker 2 (00:28:25):

Everybody gets knocked down. I think that there's definitely a misconception about whether things can get handed to you in music. I don't think they can, because at the end of the day, you're only as good as if you're a mixer. You're as good as your last mix. And it doesn't matter who your dad is. What matters is the mix good. If you're a guitarist, you're only as good as your guitar playing and know nothing. But what you put into your guitar playing is going to make you a better guitar player, and that's what you get judged on. So

Speaker 3 (00:28:58):

No one can hand you talent, no one can hand you. You have to just work for it, man. And there's no way around it.

Speaker 2 (00:29:05):

So it's interesting to me that some of the things that your dad gave you are very, very practical. That's some of what my dad gave me too. I remember when I was in high school bands, he would come watch our show and be like, you need to not worry about this band and just worry about getting good at your own personal level, because I guarantee you that none of these guys are going to be making music when they're adults. And I'd get so mad at him and be like, but we're going to make it. He'd be like, he'd be like, no, you just need to worry about your own level.

Speaker 3 (00:29:45):

Yo, that's so reminiscent to what I feel like my dad would tell me as a kid.

Speaker 2 (00:29:50):

They're right.

Speaker 3 (00:29:51):

Yeah, dude.

Speaker 2 (00:29:52):

The other one was when my band, I thought my band was good, and I say, my band were better than all the other bands we play with. And he'd be like, why do you compare yourself to the worst bands? What do you sound like compared to the best bands? And then I'd be like, now I want to kill myself.

Speaker 3 (00:30:08):

No, exactly. Yeah, man. It's like my dad would always tell me, higher your standards, higher your standards. There's a big world out there. There's a lot of different music out there. And yo, going back to the thing where you told me how I balanced everything growing up, my dad always told me, yo metals just, or not even metal, but just don't limit yourself to one genre. Diego. There's a huge world of music out there. You should go to music school, you should go do this, go do that. Try doing this. And that for sure had a huge influence on me because from a kid, even though I had this whole side of me that was like, yo, all I want to do is, I mean, at one point in high school, I was like, all I want to do is medal. This is what I love this.

(00:30:53):

I got it down. It's fucking, or not even I got it down, but I'm so passionate about this and I love it. Even then, I'm really thankful I had my father to tell me, Hey, there's other stuff out there. So in the back of my head, I'd always be like, fuck. Well, I should also try learning other music that I love. And that's the thing for me, maybe I kind of always stuck to what I was really passionate about. And thankfully I was really passionate about production. So aside from playing guitar production and engineering was always a huge passion of mine. So getting in the car and listening to the radio. When you listen to radio songs like Yo, the Production and engineering on that is, that's top level. So even as a kid in high school, I could relate to loving radio music or stuff I heard on the radio, or I used to take drum lessons and guitar lessons. So I'd always look up. I was a huge drummer fan. Look up videos of Vinny Kada, Dave Weel, Steve Gad, guitar players on YouTube, like Chris Roderick.

Speaker 2 (00:31:57):

You just absorb it all like a sponge.

Speaker 3 (00:31:59):

Yeah, man. And I was just always into a lot of different shit, and I'd kind of always jump in from different worlds. I'd be like, if I was a drummer, what would be my idols if I was only a drummer or I guess the drummer inside of me always looked at these drummers as idols. And then the guitar player inside of me always looked at these guitar players as idols. And then the producer inside of me always looked at these, Dr. Luke Max, Martin Timbaland, all these crazy cats. They've just always been on my radar, and I just love it all, man.

Speaker 2 (00:32:32):

So it sounds like you get obsessed with different things. Like say you get obsessed with drummers. Do you then just go and find drummers for a period of time, maybe a week or a night or a month, just spend all your free time on it?

Speaker 3 (00:32:52):

Yeah. I used to take drum lessons and my drum teacher would, this guy named Emerson, Emerson Wall, great guy. We used to just sit in his room and he would just teach me about all these great drummers, and we'd just watch videos and I would just be so amazed. And then as soon as the video was done, he would break down something they were doing and be like, all right, this is the exercise, the peral that they were doing or whatever. And it would just be so cool. For me, it was so much fun. I was a little kid in a toy store.

Speaker 2 (00:33:20):

One thing that I've always thought is that modern producers need to be musicians. And back in the day, in the analog days, there were engineers that were just engineers because there was a lot more actual technical science to it.

Speaker 3 (00:33:39):

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:33:41):

In the original days, people were fucking lab coats. But that's all changed. There is technical science to it, but I think that the job of a producer engineer now, it's a lot more intermingled with actual musicianship. And I feel like one thing that producers should do is learn various instruments. And I did the same thing. I took voice lessons, I took drum lessons, guitars, my main instrument, but I also took bass lessons, orchestration lessons. And I think that guys who want to get good at this should do that too, because it will open up your understanding of music in a way that nothing else will.

Speaker 3 (00:34:22):

Oh, 100% yo and something, man, piano is an instrument like,

Speaker 2 (00:34:26):

Oh yeah, piano that one too.

Speaker 3 (00:34:29):

Yeah, I used to take piano lessons and I never picked it up. I did the guitar. But now that I'm heavy into other styles of music where my guitar is not the main instrument, a piano is such a valuable asset to arranging and music production and just writing songs. I mean, if you just take a look at the instrument, the way it's laid out, it makes more sense. It's easier for the human brain to grasp notes on a piano than it is on a guitar where it's just kind of like you have the same note, five different, in the same tonal range, in the same octave, like five different places on the guitar. And with a piano, it's just a group of 12 notes completely repeated. And it's like the pattern is the same. I don't know. But what I'm saying is it's like a lot of the music you hear on the radio, a lot of other styles, a lot of music is written on piano. And the way chord music theory was written, I'm pretty sure it makes most sense on a piano, or it makes more sense on a piano to me than it does on a guitar.

Speaker 2 (00:35:32):

Guitar is a very counterintuitive instrument, actually. It's not a good instrument for writing. I mean, it's good for writing metal and stuff like that, but for actually writing music, music that doesn't necessarily involve a guitar a hundred percent of the time, it's a really shitty instrument.

Speaker 3 (00:35:54):

Yo, honestly, I didn't want to say that, but honestly, I agree with you. It kind of doesn't make sense. It's kind of retarded if you think about things. Theoretically, a major chord is just you have to look at the guitar and count frets, whereas a piano major chord, it's like, alright, boom. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:36:11):

Exactly. The way that the chords lay out on a guitar, you have to get into all kinds of weird chord shapes just to have normal chords.

Speaker 4 (00:36:22):

Yes,

Speaker 2 (00:36:22):

It's not designed for ease of use, basically. Also, notes don't sustain. So it's hard to write a good melody, a good simple melody with long notes on the guitar because the lack of sustain on a guitar the way that say a voice would have, it's hard to mimic that.

Speaker 3 (00:36:42):

And also, if you think about it, man, on a piano, you can hit 10 notes at the same time you have 10 fingers.

Speaker 2 (00:36:47):

So

Speaker 3 (00:36:48):

With a guitar, you have six notes, so you're within just with that, you're kind of limited. But I mean, with that being said, sometimes restrictions allow creativity. I know piano players that my buddy Ro, who I work with a lot, he's a really great piano player and he's classically trained, and I had him come in and co-write volumes, his album, and we ended up doing, I think one or two songs in the album. And it was cool. He bought this little shitty Casio at Toys R Us, like a $40 Little Casio, and he liked it because it limited the notes he could play. And in that within itself, we were able to capture some really cool ideas, stuff we didn't even end up using for volumes, but we were just recording really cool stuff. And it's cool to see how limiting yourself in a way could spawn a creative result.

Speaker 2 (00:37:41):

Well, I think limiting yourself is a lot, is very similar to the concept that we actually teach in production. And mixing of committing to sounds quickly. It's a similar sort of effect that it has on the brain, because when you know that you're going to commit to a tone, you actually are forced to make it as good as you can right then and there, then move on. And

Speaker 3 (00:38:03):

That's the best way to work, bro. I've honestly, after my whole life of working on music and producing, I can definitely say it's the best way to work, and I'll let you finish.

Speaker 2 (00:38:14):

Oh, so I was just going to say that, but that imposes a limitation, and I agree it is the best way to work. And with writing too, one of the hardest things that I think people have with writing is a blank DAW or a blank page, like how to start something. And by imposing limitations, it's a lot easier to not only start, but commit to something and feel good about it.

Speaker 3 (00:38:40):

Yeah. One thing I would say, going back to the engineering and production aspect, yo, the last couple years I've been really honing in on doing vocals, and I've gotten the opportunity to track somehow end up in some really cool situations. Last year I recorded this song, broccoli for This Artist Drum, and we kind of recorded it in 20 minutes.

Speaker 2 (00:39:01):

Nice.

Speaker 3 (00:39:02):

And we released the songs. He released a song on SoundCloud, and dude, it blew up and it's all on the radio, just went double platinum. And it just got nominated for a Grammy, and I would've never expected that to happen. It was very nonchalant. He improvised the hook on the spot. And with that being said, lot of, with the engineering of everything doing those sessions, I learned it was, the sessions were being done at a studio in Hollywood, and I think it was this dude named Yeti, and he was, all these cats are really dope, really good engineers. And so when I opened up the sessions to work on the songs, I noticed they were only using one or two plugins, and the mixes sounded really good. I was like, damn, these mixes sound better in mine. I'm using five 10 plugins to get the same effect. And that kind of helped me learn like, oh shit, just opening up one EQ and opening up one compressor, knowing what the hell you're doing with that compressor and the eq, and just getting it to sound like good on the spot. It is a major key to producing a good final product and doing your job as an engineer and getting shit to sound like good, quick.

Speaker 2 (00:40:14):

Absolutely. I definitely think that there's a lot to that. And now the mix, we've now had a lot of guest mixers on, and it's amazing how, and Kyle Black, who's worked with you guys, we had him on, and he's the perfect example of being simplistic and making things sound amazing

Speaker 3 (00:40:35):

Somehow. Yo, that guy is an amazing ear man. He's been mixing. I had to mix volumes, his album and yeah, I'll let you continue. He's great mixer. Great and great guy.

Speaker 2 (00:40:44):

Well, I actually wanted to talk about that a little bit because the thing that blew me away was just how simple his mixes were, but how incredible they sounded like when he started dialing in drums on the state champs, on Nail the Mix. First of all, he worked very, very quickly and he didn't have chains and chains and chains of plugins. He was very, very simple with what he used, but it was very, very specific and it made it sound great. And I think that there's a lot to that, exactly what the tool does and what the source tone needs and how you're going to use that tool on that source tone for the best result. It's not guesswork. You know exactly what you're going for.

Speaker 3 (00:41:33):

Yeah, man, knowing how to use a compressor and having a good ear listening carefully to stuff and tackling problem frequencies. And honestly, I like doing a lot of subtractive, what I've been doing a lot, but just knowing how to use your tools. And when we were talking about limiting yourself, knowing how to use these tools, compression EQ properly, it really is a major key man to getting a good mix, to being successful as a producer, to just doing your job. Right.

Speaker 2 (00:42:04):

Tell me a little more about watching about working with Kyle. Actually, I'm curious about that because it's interesting to me that he worked with you guys because he's not known for that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:42:15):

Well, I've worked, done all the volumes mixes in the past, and this time around me and Brandon Paddock produce all volumes and stuff. Well produce the last record, and we were planning on mixing it ourselves, but volumes took a long time on this album. I really wanted to, well, we went through a vocalist change, but aside from that, I really wanted to, we wrote 25 songs and only used the 10 best ones. And I really wanted to make sure with this album that all the songs were great, and they were, there's no cookie cutter shit.

Speaker 4 (00:42:47):

So

Speaker 3 (00:42:47):

With that being said, after a year and a half of hammering these songs out, I felt like we were kind of burnt out on it. And I listened back to our mixes and I liked stuff about 'em, but they just weren't, I felt like we had just listened to the songs way too much, and the product was kind of like 75, 80%, 75% there sonically, but it's still, or maybe 80%, I give us a good 80%, but the last 20% to get the last push on the mixes, I just thought it would be good to give it to someone else. So I was thinking about it. But that being said, I was on my way to Brandon's one day, and I was listening to state champs and I was like, damn, yo, this record sounds great. This record sounds amazing. I wonder who did this.

(00:43:30):

And then I pull up to Brandon's and we start working and he's like, oh, hey, my buddy wants to grab Sushi, my buddy Kyle. I'm like, cool. And on the way there, Brandon told me, he's like, oh yeah, he did state champs, and I think he worked on some of the Pierce Veil stuff back in the day. And I was like, yo, for real, Brandon, I was just listening to those mixes on the way to the car, I mean, on the way to your studio. And as I was listening to the mixes, I was like, damn, it'd be cool to get whoever mixed this State Chance record to work on volumes. I bet he could get the way I picture these songs sounding final in my head. I bet whoever did this to state champs could get him to sound right, complete the vision.

(00:44:06):

And so we met up with him, and then he ended up coming over to Brandon's studio later that night, and he heard the record, he heard the songs, and he really liked them. And we were kind of on a time crunch, and so we needed help. We were like, yo, can you at least mix one song so we could get it out and have it be the single? And he was down, man, and he did a test mix, and it sounded incredible. And he made the final mixes sound the way I envisioned them sounding. So I really applaud him for that.

(00:44:40):

We're not like me and Brandon being producers and building this work of art for the last year and a half, and us being so technical ourselves and being in charge of finalizing so many other mixes for other people and for ourselves. We have a very specific vision. And Kyle was just able to come in and boss out and get the songs to where they needed to be. But yeah, working at his studio, he had a really cool setup. He's using a lot of analog gear. He was running through a summing bus, and yeah, it all just synchronized pretty well.

Speaker 2 (00:45:16):

When's it coming out?

Speaker 3 (00:45:17):

Album should be out within the next couple months. It's pretty much done. I actually have to send Kyle some files today for him to wrap up the album and send off to Mastery next week.

Speaker 2 (00:45:26):

Nice. He played me some of it when he was at my place for Nail the Mix.

Speaker 3 (00:45:32):

Oh, for real.

Speaker 2 (00:45:33):

I made him, I forced him to, I put a gun to his head. He sounds incredible.

Speaker 3 (00:45:39):

I'm happy he showed you, man, yo. And I got to see the nail, the mix for state champs because yo, I love that mix, man.

Speaker 2 (00:45:46):

Oh, after this podcast is over, I'll give you access to it for sure.

Speaker 3 (00:45:52):

Please do. Yeah, man, Kyle's incredible. That album just blows me away. And what he did with this new volumes album is just so sick. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:46:01):

I agree. He played it for me before I knew what I knew he was good. And of course, we don't have chumps on Nail the Mix, so it wasn't, I knew he was good, of course. And State Champs sounded great, and so we add him there, but I didn't know what a badass he was yet until, because I hadn't watched him mix, and I was honestly a little curious to hear what it sounded like with him doing metal, and it sounded great.

Speaker 3 (00:46:31):

Yeah, man.

Speaker 2 (00:46:31):

And it sounds unique too. That's what I like about it. It definitely sounds unique, but it also has this pop kind of polish and the vocals,

Speaker 3 (00:46:40):

And that's what I wanted. I mean, Brandon's a really poppy producer too. I think he did some stuff with Albert Levine, and he used to work for John Feldman. So the record had that edge to it, and he was able to keep that and keep it fortified, but blend it in to with all these heavy tones and rocky sound. So we ended up with a really, the record really, it gets really heavy, but it's like when it needs to be poppy, it's mixed away. A radio song will be mixed.

Speaker 2 (00:47:11):

I feel like I'm hearing a modern Lincoln Park in a way,

Speaker 3 (00:47:15):

And that's how I've always wanted my stuff to sound like always being a production geek and nerd. When I'm listening to Britney Spears records or whatever's hot on the radio, I always listen to that. Even when I go to the clubs, I'm listening to the music, I'm like, damn. I love the way the vocals sound. I love the way the drums sound. I love the way they hit you. All the frequencies are so, everything's so separated. It just sits really nice. Nothing's harsh, but everything's super clear. So I've always, that's why I picture metal sounding like the perfect metal mix sounding, but it's so hard to do that with metal because technically you're taking all these fast drums and heavily distorted guitars and screaming and yelling, shit that doesn't sound clean is the opposite of clean, clean and smooth, and you're just trying to polish it and make it sound clean and smooth. So it's so tricky, and it is definitely a challenge to get it to sound the way it's supposed to sound.

Speaker 2 (00:48:12):

I agree. I honestly feel like metal, the big sounding metal stuff is the hardest stuff to mix because it's wrong. It's just arranged wrong. Everything about it's wrong. It's all noise, it's all fast, it's all in the same frequency ranges. So much distortion, so much double bass, heavy guitars that are tuned down to who knows what interfering with the bass. Screaming vocals is just wrong,

Speaker 3 (00:48:43):

Bro. In a way, mixing metal is like polishing a trash can.

Speaker 2 (00:48:48):

Totally.

Speaker 3 (00:48:49):

I've always said that. I'm like, yo, but it's cool in a way. It totally is that, and it plays tricks with your mind. That's why that's huge, huge, huge shout out and respect to Joey Sturgis because his mixes are like, I feel like he's always had that exactly what I'm talking about. He's always had that. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:49:09):

He figured out the equation for sure.

Speaker 3 (00:49:11):

Yeah. He gets med to sound clean and poppy the way it should be. And when I say poppy, I mean just every frequency sits the way it's supposed to. It does in rap or a rap or pop song, but at the same time it's metal.

Speaker 2 (00:49:29):

But it sounds huge.

Speaker 3 (00:49:30):

Yeah. Nothing's harsh to the ears, and his mixes are really smooth. But yeah, I don't know how he's, he's a boss man. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:49:36):

It's funny because I think a lot of people used to shit talk his mixes. I'm going to say that all he did was use presets or whatnot, and it's like, why don't you try to mix a metal album to sound the way his do? And now that we've done nail the mix with for a while now, and we've done it with some of his mixes, we've gotten to hear people try to do it, and yeah, it's not so easy when it's

Speaker 3 (00:50:04):

Not so easy, huh? Yeah, no, for sure, man. Yo, I remember back in the day, even when we were finishing volumes mixes, when I was finishing volumes mixes, I'd be listening to Sturgis and I'd be like, damn, fuck. How is he getting his shit to, I'd just be sitting in my room like, yo, what the fuck is he doing to get this shit? Sounds so good. And I would just be trying going back and forth, and it's like, yeah, man, he's a man.

Speaker 2 (00:50:29):

He's definitely a wizard. I've been paying attention. And I think that there's definitely, his EQ abilities are superior to most people. He's got an incredible ear for that. So he knows, he gets some very, very interesting looking curves happening

Speaker 3 (00:50:50):

Really.

Speaker 2 (00:50:51):

And they always sound incredible, and he has a very, very extreme, but I guess well thought out concept of dynamics. He nails limiters super hard, and he's very aggressive with it, but he does it just right. And so it pushes everything to the front like that. But you combine his understanding of dynamics with his ability to eq, everything gets pushed to the front, but in just the right balances, it's crazy. It's definitely wizard level stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:51:28):

Yeah, man, damn. Yeah. Recently working on different styles of music that aren't metal that are kind of more naturally good sounding to the ear, like a female singer over a nice piano or in some good drums. Working with Prema samples and stuff, it's given me a chance to step back and reevaluate EQing and compression from a different perspective from Zero again, and kind of just focusing on just making things sound musical and doing that for a while. And then going back to Metal. It's given me a great edge to look at metal in a more musical way and focus more on musical things as opposed to the way notes resonate and the way everything, I don't know, just, fuck, what am I trying to say?

Speaker 2 (00:52:18):

Well, I think that that's where a lot of metal guys lose the plot in their mixes, is that they spend so much of their mental energy on the frequency balance that they forget about the music. What the Best Mixers have is a combination of the two. So the songs still hits emotionally as much as,

Speaker 3 (00:52:40):

Yeah, man. And also as opposed to me focusing on, Hey, how heavy can this sound? Or how hard hitting can it sound? Or focusing on something like that, that's not really, it's better to focus on the overall picture. Alright, what's this song even about? Let's think about all the layers this song has and how it would be the most beautiful way to bring things out as opposed to trying to be all about how heavy it could sound and how much bass it could sound and how fucking, because naturally when you get in a medal, at least for me, I just always love that part about it. But if you focus more on the other things, it allows,

Speaker 2 (00:53:21):

I think it allows those parts to hit harder.

Speaker 3 (00:53:24):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:53:24):

A good example is that, yeah, tuning down or adding strings to your guitar definitely can help things sound heavy, but there's also some bands that don't tune down that low, that still sound just as heavy. And it's because the music is written in a way where it's emotionally heavy and the production, whoever produced and mixed it knew that and captured the right spirit. And some of those bands sound just as heavy as bands that have 17 strings on their guitar and Tune eight octaves below the base.

Speaker 3 (00:54:03):

No, for sure, man, ADA.

Speaker 2 (00:54:05):

Yeah, you can't even hear it.

Speaker 3 (00:54:07):

I agree, man, yo, so much of this music shit, so much of recording and producing, it's so much about Emotion man, and capturing the right vibe in the studio. That's why it even boils down to your energy in the studio, man, the way you communicate with people, what type of energy you bring to people. At the end of the day, you're capturing a performance from someone. So that's a performance in every aspect of the word. You want to encourage the right emotion and energy from the people you're recording, and that's the most important part. If you get that right, then you don't have to spend all this time trying to wondering why something doesn't sound good or just the way everything's captured, in my opinion. And especially when it comes to recording vocals and writing songs, which is something, when I was doing a lot of metal, I didn't really, or focusing on a lot of metal, I didn't really, it's easy to pass that because doing a lot of guitars and editing guitars and chopping stuff up. But when I started doing more vocal editing, I mean vocal engineering and producing, that's just something that I noticed and I started paying more attention to. And now going back to the metal world, I made sure to pay attention to that when I was recording the guitars for the New Volumes album when I was writing the songs, I focused a lot on the emotional aspect of the music.

Speaker 2 (00:55:28):

Well is Case in point the broccoli session that you were talking about where you guys nailed it in 20 minutes,

Speaker 3 (00:55:35):

Dude? Yeah. I mean the whole song I guess after. Alright, so most of the song was written in 20 minutes, buddy. Alright, so my buddy Jay Graham, he was the producer and along with my buddy ro ed, and Ro is a keyboard player. So Ro started playing some things on the Keys, and Jay Graham told he saw him playing something and he was like, yo, keep playing that. So we recorded it in and then Jay Graham programmed some drums real quick. We recorded into Pro Tools and then Drum listened to it and he was like, all right, I think I got, alright, start recording me. So I recorded him over the hook and over the beat and he just improvised the hook and it was all so quick. But hold on, I'm fucking getting distracted. What did you just ask me? I just went off.

Speaker 2 (00:56:24):

No, no, I was asking, I want to hear about the broccoli session anyways, but we were talking about how one of the things that you learned from other music is just letting things be musical. And by letting things be musical and focusing on the beauty of it all, you don't have to spend forever worrying about how it sounds and all these dumb technical things. Then you said that the broccoli session was so quick. I feel like that's a perfect example.

Speaker 3 (00:56:52):

Oh yeah. Especially with that whole realm of music, it, it's so based on what you're feeling at the time, and it's like that song was based on drum feeling happy and smoking some weed. He was smoking a joint and he was thinking about, oh, what should I write about this? Oh, these girls always try to smoke my weed. Alright, I'm, he's just like a happy dude. And he just went in the booth and recorded some shit about girls smoking his weed and boom, that was it. But I think the reason the song came out so good was so successful because the vibe in the room was right. Everything was good, everyone was on point. And shout out to Jay Graham and Ro great producers.

Speaker 2 (00:57:36):

I feel like in metal, it's hard to get those vibes sometimes because everything is so cut up and so I guess sectioned and riffs are built, but that's why if you're working with artists that are really good and everyone's really good at what they do, you can have moments like that.

Speaker 3 (00:58:00):

Yeah, man, that's honestly, yo, I feel like with these bigger sessions, these bigger songs, you just have a group of five motherfuckers who know what the hell they're doing. Everyone in that room knows what they're doing. And when you have that, it's just another level of workflow. So there's some mastery

Speaker 2 (00:58:19):

Involved

Speaker 3 (00:58:19):

Working with animals as leaders a couple of years ago, that's a perfect example of that happening in Metal. All those dudes are just really gnarly at what they do. And to center Javier chosen, Javier and Matt have a really good vision as to what they want their songs to sound like. And they're all really, they play a lot. We didn't spend time focusing on bullshit. It was just all, everyone just kind of got the workflow and I

Speaker 2 (00:58:51):

Love it when it works that way.

Speaker 3 (00:58:52):

Yeah, man, everything was just really easy going and every time someone has something to say, it's productive. Obviously we're not spending time getting crazy takes because Tosin and Javier are so good at guitar, but I feel like that's the best music is made that way. That's why it's harder with some of these bands or these smaller bands, they might have one or two really good dudes and then the rest, if someone's in the room that isn't up to par but then still stops the session or stops things to say stuff. I hate to be that guy, but it's just, just from experience. I've seen it work one way. I've seen it work with broccoli. I've seen it work with animals as leaders.

Speaker 2 (00:59:34):

I mean, sometimes you just got to be a bastard.

Speaker 3 (00:59:38):

Yeah, man, you just got to be fucking good at what you do, man. You got to take this shit seriously. It's a career. This is your career. You want to be proficient at what you do. You want to be good. But yeah, I love surrounding myself with people that, like I said, I think are better than me.

Speaker 2 (00:59:56):

It makes a huge difference. So I'm wondering, so I want to ask you a little bit about Juan Gabrielle because getting a Grammy for, that's no small thing, and I was wondering what was it like, first of all working with your dad on that?

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):

Man, it was an honor. Alright, so he started doing Juan Gabriel right before he passed away. The last couple albums, like Rest in Peace, he just passed away six months. It's been a hard time for all of us.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):

I can't imagine.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):

He released a couple albums where the last albums he released, he was Rereleasing and Rerecording his songs and having my dad reproduce them. But he would team up with another artist. He would get a feature on the song to sing the song with him and have these artists maybe even write a new verse in the song or Resing one of the hooks or whatever it is, it's a duet. He was doing duets with artists. So on the first one we got a bunch of cool artists and we got Fifth Harmony on one. And like I said, since I've always been heavily into doing pop or hip hop or whatever, and I'm going out there, I'm always current with music and what's coming out. My dad had come to me and asked me if I could mix and produce the fifth Harmony Duet with Juan Gabriel. So I took the song and we worked on it and I got Brandon involved too, my buddy Brandon Paddock who co-produces volumes with me. And we did this song and it came out great and it was like an EDM version. It was like a dance song. So I pulled up kick samples from vengeance and

(01:01:40):

Clap samples or whatever and referenced it to whatever was on the radio at that time. We did a good job and I think I also did one other track on that one, but at the end of the day when everything came out, those tracks did really well. So on the second time around the single for the album was this, it was called Lara and it was an old song Juan Gabriel had released in the eighties and we got this guy named Jay Vin to rap on it. He's like the Drake of Ton. So that being said, my dad knows I'm going to clubs, I'm listening to radio and I did a good job on the last one. And so he came to me, he's like, Diego, you kind of about this style of music better than me. You're more in tune with what's going out.

(01:02:23):

And obviously through the years, him hearing my work with volumes and doing all this stuff, all these bands I produced and all these artists I've been producing, he's obviously developed a trust like, yo, I trust you. This is a huge project. See if you can bang out the ton part for Jay Vin to rap over. And I called my buddy dj, okay, who's a well-known dj and I had him send me over some Retton samples, layered them in, finished the song and I sent it. I sent it to my dad and he sent it out to Juan Gabriel and he sent it out to Jay Baldwin and they heard it and they liked it. They liked my work, so they approved it and that was that man. And we finished that song up and then he came to me and asked me to do two more songs, one with this artist named Huene and one with another one called B Rubio. So the one with Weine was a total dance remix. And I ended up just doing the whole thing. I mixed,

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):

It just worked out that way.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):

I mixed and produce the whole song. But with the Huene one, we also had other people turn in mixes and they didn't tell Juan Gabriel or anyone like, oh, this is Diego's mixer. He just got three or four mixes and they chose mine.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):

How did that feel?

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):

Incredible, man. I was really excited. I put on a lot of work and I can't even believe we won the Grammy bro. That shit is just crazy. Yeah, seriously. It's crazy. We won album of the year and fucking we won Best Regional album, but that's the story behind that. So even with the Juan Gabriel stuff, even with my dad trusting me with all the work and everything, I still was up against other people. So I feel really blessed that they chose my mix and I was able to be part of such a legendary project. It was like a biggest thing I've ever worked on.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):

Yeah, man, it's huge. So I'm wondering, did you have to get into a different Headspace to record that stuff and to mix that stuff, I guess different Headspace than what you do with say volumes or do a lot of the same principles and techniques work across the genre gap for you?

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):

I definitely had to get in a different head space working with clean sounding stuff. With EDM music, the samples are like with metal, when you're miking up drums, you're spending all this time trying to EQ a snare, trying to EQ a kick, just getting raw samples to sound good. Whereas with this stuff, it's kind of like you're not really worried about that. It's like you choose the samples that sound good enough and if the sample doesn't sound good enough and you have to spend time EQing it, it's probably not or drastically EQing it, it's probably not the right sample. So like I said, going back to the musical aspect of everything, this is where I'm really just focusing on the music, how good do the vocals,

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):

So it's more vocal oriented and it sounds like it's more about the big picture than about the small details because the small details sound like they're provided in a way.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):

I just chose really good samples. I didn't spend time mixing and compressing the samples, they just sounded good from the get-go. I kind of focused all my energy on synth work, finding cool synth Nexus two vanguard, getting that stuff to sound really wide and open and vocal, mixing delays, reverb, and also structuring the song. Well, honestly, a major key to that was like, alright, where do we put the drops? Where are we going to build the song up? That's a huge part of it too. Getting all that right and making sure the song feels right. And it's like you got to kind of picture yourself like, all right, you're in a club dancing, what do you want to hear? What's going to make people dance? So it's a hundred percent different mentality with metal, you're just, when I write for volumes, I'm picturing all, I'm in front of a whole crowd, I'm playing with my band, what's going to get this crowd going with this stuff? It's like, alright, I'm in the club. What's going to sound good in the club? So with me, I just kind of live through, I use real life experiences to guide me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):

That makes sense. Well I guess you're getting a different reaction out of the crowd, I guess in one case they're dancing and in the other case they're slamming into each other. But I mean, sounds to me it's the same goal in the end, which is to ignite them emotionally enough to where they start moving their bodies.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):

I think that's the name of the game with EDM and that's something I want to dive into, start doing more with one of the tracks, one of the three tracks I worked on, the Juan Gabriel record. I, like I said, I mentioned my buddy dj, I had him come by and I learned a lot of stuff from him. He just does EDM stuff and he's well established in the EDM world, but kind of seeing how he would stop the song and be like, alright, let's put a drop here and then, alright, let's choose these samples. And just seeing him do his thing, like I said, I always learned so much from working with people, so doing that track. And then I actually had collabed on another track on the first Gu Gabriel record with dj and I saw him work and I saw him come in and he's like, all right, let's try using these samples. And I paid attention to what type of samples he was using, how they hit, how much bass they had or whatever, how they sounded. So I kind of used that to kind of guide me with the We Scene remix that I did on the, that helped me learn about this style a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):

Makes sense. So in your experience, is the world of Latin music production or just Latin music much different than the world of American music? And can you give any insights into why or how?

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):

Yes, it's definitely way different. I mean, I'd say yo radio music is all the same. American radio music, Latin radio music, you're just trying to get people to dance. But when it comes to doing radio or dance, Latin music and metal, those two are huge, very different with volumes. I'm writing for people to mosh to, I'm picturing myself on stage, whereas with the Juan Gabriel stuff, I'm kind of picturing myself at a club, what would I want to hear? What's going to get girls dancing? You're writing music for people to dance to, not to mosh to, so the whole vibe is different. The whole aesthetic of the song and genre is just different. And you're obviously writing music for a different crowd of people.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):

But besides that, then it sounds like for you on your end, working on Latin music isn't that different than working on American pop or anything, or American dance music?

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):

They have similarities. I guess Latin music is based on, you have ranchero, you have reggaeton, and then you have a bunch of different types of, you have cumbia, a bunch of different types of Latin music. So at the end of the day, in my opinion, the way I see it's you're just trying to get people to dance and alright, if you're doing an American dance song, you're taking more influence from r and b and hip hop. Whereas with a Latin song, you still want to get that same effect, but you want to use these aspects of Latin music, of reggaeton or whatever it is, but you're still trying to get the people to do the same thing with American radio music and Latin radio music. They're similar. It's definitely, there's a bigger difference between American metal music and American radio music than there is between American radio music and Latin radio music.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):

Makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):

Different cultures revolve around different styles of music and you're drawing influence from these different cultures. At the end of the day, you're getting people to dance, they're going to be, these songs are going to be played in clubs. You kind of want to write these for that environment.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):

So you just know what the, I guess though the thing that is in common and between all the styles is that you know what effect you want to have on your audience before you even start.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):

Yeah, that's with any musical job. If you're writing for a commercial, you got to see the commercial and see what the commercial is about and fit into the type of vibe. If you're doing a car commercial, you might want to add some rock and roll guitar in there and a cool guitar solo. If you're doing a prescription drug commercial like Zoloft or something, you probably want to write really soothing and comfortable and like music, something that makes someone feel safe as they read all the side effects might cause whatever the fuck. But yeah, I mean with dance music, you want people to dance to it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):

Perfect. Alright, so we have a question from Jamele banner, which is can you discuss your hip hop production slash beat making styles? Some?

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):

Yes, sir. So with hip hop Man, with hip hop and any radio genre to begin with, for me it's all about Prema samples. If you get the right samples, it is the make it or break it. You could have a great song, but well, I mean, that's how I work because I'm such a nerdy producer engineer, I want my shit to sound. That's why I even started recording in the first place. I want my shit to sound really good. So that being said, with hip hop, once I allotted, I spent the right time and allotted and found the right samples off of working with other people or doing sessions, getting stems, mixing stems, taking kicks from stems. I was mixing and buying packs online. I gathered a collection of the right samples that I like. And now when I make a hip hop beat, I just pull up the folder and I drag and drop and I don't have to mix anything.

(01:12:19):

I don't have to EQ kicks or snares, nothing. You just kind of have to level everything out volume wise. And with that being said, I've learned a lot from this guy, Jay Graham, who I've been working with. I've been engineering for him, and he produced a broccoli joint. So seeing him work in the studio and kind of how he does stuff, I had already been doing things a certain way, but watching him work kind of reassured me. All right, here's an established producer in this realm working with these big artists, and he works that way too. He's got everything set, his samples knock off the top. He's not spending time queuing or really fucking with kicks and snares, obviously he still EQs stuff and sort the eight oh eights and whatnot. But what I'm saying is I'm used to metal where it's like you're really spending time hammering those drums and getting to sound right with this, if you're going to EQ or do something, it's something very subtle. If you have a lot of bass, if you have your eight oh eights knocking and you're high hats are going fast, you might want to roll off a little bit of the low end on the high hats so that they don't make your 8 0 8 wobble so that they don't conflict.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):

Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):

So yeah, that's the take I take. Well that's my take on making hip hopies, working with Prema samples and also finding really cool s synths. There's a lot of really cool s synths that sound good right off the bat. Nexus two, Electra X, you have purity. Those are all more hip hop synths. You have Vanguard, you have Silence, Omnisphere, there's just Palis is endless. So working with really good synths too is really inspiring. If you open up a cool synth and it has good patches from the get go, it's inspiring. You just hit a note and it's like, oh, whoa, this is cool. And it just kind of, I don't know, it's easier for you to envision a song once you hear a note or I mean a sound or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):

That was actually kind of the next question from Jack Hartley, which was, what are some of your favorite soft synths and plugins for ear candy and additional production?

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):

Oh, for sure. I mean, yeah, all the ones I just mentioned were really good. Contact has really good ones. If you buy Complete 10, it comes with a shitload of libraries. So you have evolve mutations, you have action strings. Trillion is really good for base

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):

Trillion is pretty good. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:14:47):

It's almost like, unless I have a really amazing base, I use Trillium because it's just not worth it with record. Oh, that's one thing I just want to say, yo, when you record base, it's all about how good the base is. Once you record with a really good base, you realize, oh shit, you just got to plug it in and then maybe throw a little bit of an EQ and a compressor if anything. But if it doesn't sound really good when you plug it in, I don't want to deal with it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):

Yeah, thank you for saying that. I think not only the bass, but the person playing it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):

Yeah, for sure. A hundred percent. Especially with finger bases, it's a huge, huge aspect of bass.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):

Here is one from Rodney aba, which is, how did you get into the composing side of things for artists?

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):

Well, initially the only reason I even started recording was I was writing my own stuff and I wanted a way to remember it and not forget what I was doing. But what happened was I started recording and then I'd go, listen, when I first started recording, I remember as laid down had just really shadows our security, and so I started recording stuff and that album came out along with a couple other albums like Miasma Black Die or Murder and a Despise Icon or whatever. But I remember just hearing those albums, I was like, damn, yo, I need to get my stuff to sound. If I could record something and it sounded this sick, it would just be the coolest thing that could ever happen to me in my whole entire life. So I kind of made it my life goal to somehow get what I was recording, to sound that good to sound like an album.

(01:16:33):

And then that's how it all started. And then that just led me onto so many other things. But what I'm saying is that I started, I was composing stuff and that's how I even got into recording. So I guess naturally I've always been a composer and I guess everything else came secondary to me, even though at certain points in certain projects I've been involved in, I haven't been the main composer, I've been more of a producer or a mixer or whatever it is. But initially that's where I started. So it always revolves, I mean, it always comes back to that at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):

So you were a writer first.

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):

So it just makes sense that your writing skills will be utilized and exploited by the people you work with. And that's something that I've noticed, but a lot of the producers I know who end up writing on people's records or songwriters to begin with, they write music, they enjoy writing music. And so it's just a natural thing because when people work with them, they have ideas to share, and the artists like their ideas because good at it. So I think that people who want to do that more, they just need to write more music and get good at it and just make that a thing you do. If you want to write music for artists first, start writing for yourself all the time and just get good at writing so that when you are working with artists, your writing chops are, let's just say, are developed so that you can give them good ideas.

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):

I mean, yeah, man, if you're working with an artist, if you can't even write for yourself, what are you going to offer them? Why? And this is something I want to say, I experienced things from both sides. I'm an artist and I'm a producer, so I've been in the situation where I'm the artist in the room and I've been in the situation where I'm the producer and the artist comes first, man. I see a lot of producers, maybe even in hip hop or other realms, they value themselves more than the artists or they kind have this stigma to where they think they're more important than the artist. So therefore they kind of do things. They put themselves first in a weird

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):

Controlling

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):

Way. And it's like, first off, if you're a producer and you feel that way about an artist, you shouldn't even be working with them. You should be working with people that you respect. And if you don't, then I don't even know why you're working with them. But ooh, going back to the question, yeah, it's always important for the producer. So when you're a producer, all you're doing is you're offering your talents to the artists. So however they want to utilize your talents, you help them out. So that's what I like doing when I'm a producer. When I'm working with an artist, it's like, alright, they have the vision and any way I can help them get there or I can help fill in the blank spots of their vision that they haven't figured it out yet. That's how I like helping them. And I think

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):

That makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):

Yeah, artists are grateful for that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):

That's how I've always approached it and how I've always seen it work. And then the thing is that once you do that enough, then you might develop a reputation as a writer. And if you get repeat business, if you wrote for them the first time by just doing it as part of your production services, you might get asked to help. And if the word gets around a dude like Drew Falk for instance, who mainly just writes, but he also produces people talk and that's how you get this work. But originally it just starts as you filling in the blanks for people.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):

Exactly. So you fill in the blanks and then people start realizing like, oh damn, this dudes look really good at this. And then they talk about you and they let it be known. So with that being said, yo, your reputation, your word of mouth, it goes a long way. It's always you got to be a good person, good friend, good. Aside from being talented, it's important to have good morals so that people want to come back and work with you, even if you're really good at what you do, if you piss the people you're working with off, it is just common sense. Who's going to want to work with someone who they don't like. So it is just way more beneficial to your talents to always just sociable person man, and keep good morals

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):

And approach it from a standpoint of how can you help? Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:21:18):

Yeah, for sure. And one thing, the thing is every artist wants something different, man. An artist could come to you and be like, Hey man, can you just write this for me? In which that case, alright cool, alright, this is what I'm asked to do. And then you go in and do it. And every artist kind wants something different. But I think as a producer, when I'm brought in as a producer, that's the first thing I do. I'm like, alright, what is this artist? What does he want from me? And then along the road you might find out that he wants things he didn't even know he wanted from you or he or she wanted from you. So I love producing and I love helping the artists out. And I think being my own artist in a way, it's taught me how to produce because it is helped me put myself in their shoes and been like, Hmm, yo, if I was doing volumes, what would I want a producer to come in and help with? Or even though I'm also obviously heavily involved with producing with volumes too, but I like having someone else to come in and help me sort out my ideas or whatever and kind of bounce ideas off of and also learn. I learn so much when I work with people.

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):

Makes sense. So here's a question from Moon, which is how was the process like for composing physical education with animals as leaders?

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):

It was sick.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):

Good answer.

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):

We were in my room and Tosin and Javier had been, they came over to write and Tosin brought a guitar and he plugged in and he's like, yo d, I got a cool riff. And it was that first riff.

(01:22:49):

So we ended up recording that. And then Tosin had a couple other riffs. And what we did is we recorded them separately and then we ended up piecing 'em together. And I just programmed a lot of the drums and well, when we were writing, I programmed all the drums. Obviously Matt Garco went in and being the beast, CS made them super, super sick. But initially, yeah, MI Tosin and Javier put the song together and we structured it and then Javier wrote that, which to me, that part of the song that's kind of like the vocal line, that's kind like the hook. So it is the hook. So that was really fun. And that was another situation where everyone kind of knew what the hell they were doing and was really, the song just came out, man, it wrote it. There was no forcing, we didn't have to restructure stuff, we didn't have to go back.

(01:23:42):

And I did a lot of the synth work and I helped compose one of the leads and then I composed a lot of the drums. But it was a wonderful experience working with those two. And I learned so much. And at the time I was so, Javier is just such a good guy. Javier and Toon are such good guys. They saw me do the volume stuff and they saw me do the production for that, and they were off the bat, they were like, yo, we should do some shit. And me, I had been taking lessons from Toon and I really looked up to them. I still do. And it was just such a honor for me to be able to work with such talented musicians and have them show respect back and want to collaborate and create something so cool. So I definitely, I learned a lot,

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):

Man. It is always awesome when you can work with people that you admire and they're all also cool and they treat you with respect. It's like, yeah, this is what it's all about. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):

Man, definitely an incredible experience. I love to work with him again.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):

Awesome. Well, Diego, I'm going to end the podcast now. Thank you so much for coming on and for sharing so much with our crowd. You've been an awesome guest and I can't wait to hear the new volumes. And maybe we can have Kyle Black come back on now the mix and do a volumes track.

Speaker 3 (01:24:59):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):

That'd

Speaker 3 (01:25:01):

Be awesome. Well, thanks for having me, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):

Thank you

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):

So much. This episode of the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast is brought to you by Joey Sturgis's tones creating unique audio tools for musicians and producers everywhere. Unleash your creativity with Joey sturges tones. Visit joey sturgis tones.com for more info. To ask us questions, make suggestions and interact. Visit URM academy slash podcast and subscribe today.