Kyle Black: Mixing Volumes, The Producer Hustle, and Vocal Compression Secrets

Speaker 1 (00:00:01):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Focal Audio, the world's reference speaker. For over 30 years, focal has been designing and manufacturing loud speakers For the home speaker, drivers for cars, studio monitors, for recording studios and premium quality headphones, visit bocal.com for more information. And now your hosts, Joey Sturgis, Joel Wanasek and

Speaker 2 (00:00:28):

Eyal Levi. Alright. Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast. I am Eyal Levi and with me is Mr. Kyle Black. Hello. Hello. Welcome back. We're going to be doing a part two here to the other podcast that we did together, which you guys heard last week because we just have so much to talk about that Fuck it. Here, we are just going for it. So why don't we just get right into it. Sounds good. Mixing while you're sick. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:00:57):

We're both doing it right now.

Speaker 2 (00:00:59):

Well, I'm not mixing. That's the difference. You are. I always, whenever I mix, if I get, I guess you have to go, you have to weigh deadline versus how bad of a job you're going to do. How do you deal with it when you're stuffed up and you can't hear? Right.

Speaker 3 (00:01:16):

Well, right now, no, that's the problem. Right now I'm not feeling it. So what I'm trying to do is get the basic parts of the mix done.

Speaker 2 (00:01:24):

You're not feeling it as in, you're not feeling mixing?

Speaker 3 (00:01:27):

I don't feel like mixing, but I have to because there's a deadline. So what I'm trying to do is blast through two or three mixes and just get the meat of it down. I know I'm not really hearing things right. I'm stuffed up and I'm congested, so it feels like I'm kind of not hearing much high end or something. So I just want to be careful that I'm not boosting too much high end. So I'll probably just revisit it in a couple of days and make sure it's all good.

Speaker 2 (00:01:59):

Well, there's a lot of structural work you can do on a mix.

Speaker 3 (00:02:02):

Exactly.

Speaker 2 (00:02:03):

Without having to have the most, I guess, sensitive parts of your hearing intact. I think,

Speaker 3 (00:02:11):

Yeah, for the most part I'm just pulling in the settings from the other songs with the drums and the guitars and the bass and making sure it's all there and getting that balance right and I'll revisit it, get the detailed stuff. So

Speaker 2 (00:02:25):

At what point do you say, alright, nothing's happening today?

Speaker 3 (00:02:33):

Probably never. I mean, it's got to get done right.

Speaker 2 (00:02:37):

You've never taken a sick day.

Speaker 3 (00:02:39):

Very rarely. Like I told you yesterday, I did yesterday, but I did not want to,

Speaker 2 (00:02:46):

Man. I had this one stretch in 2013 where I was getting chronic migraines every single day for a month and a half, and I solved the problem. It was dietary

Speaker 3 (00:02:59):

Really.

Speaker 2 (00:03:00):

But yeah, I just needed more greens that cleared it right up. But in the meantime, while it was happening, the medication was actually making it worse. So I was getting, was called rebound headaches, which is, forgive me if there are any doctors or people listening if I get this wrong, but what I believe is that either the medicine doesn't actually cure you of what's causing it. So as soon as it wears off, it comes back even stronger. Or you're also getting a slight withdrawal from the medication so it comes on stronger either way, it makes the headaches worse. So they were just getting worse and worse. And I was editing drums for a band called D Side, the death metal band, the classic death metal band. So it was like blast beats and double bass at high fucking tempos.

Speaker 3 (00:03:56):

Oh boy.

Speaker 2 (00:03:56):

For when I was getting the worst migraines imaginable

Speaker 3 (00:04:00):

For

Speaker 2 (00:04:01):

A few weeks straight, that was hell.

Speaker 3 (00:04:04):

Right.

Speaker 2 (00:04:05):

I still got it done.

Speaker 3 (00:04:05):

That's good. Were you able to hit it at any point? Not having a headache to kind of just make sure you were doing that's too bad, but I'm sure you did fine. Well,

Speaker 2 (00:04:15):

People like the record and good. I mean, the migraine spell lasted six weeks and the editing on that record took me two weeks, which was longer than usual.

Speaker 3 (00:04:25):

Gotcha, gotcha. Do you drink a lot of coffee?

Speaker 2 (00:04:28):

No, but I drink Red Bull.

Speaker 3 (00:04:30):

Gotcha. How much?

Speaker 2 (00:04:32):

Like two or three a day. Got it. That sounds like a lot. I used to drink way more. I used to drink way more.

Speaker 3 (00:04:37):

Yeah. I mean I drink way too much coffee and I definitely know that if I don't drink enough water I'll be getting headaches, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (00:04:44):

Yeah, man. See that's the thing. It's things like that. If I drink enough water and I make sure to consume enough greens

Speaker 3 (00:04:52):

And

Speaker 2 (00:04:52):

All that, I never get those problems, but the minute that I forget to do any of that stuff, headaches return.

Speaker 3 (00:04:58):

Dude, greens suck. I hate greens. You got to. But

Speaker 2 (00:05:04):

Dude, Joel, Joel loves them. The thing is, man, I hate the way they taste, but I feel so much better when I consume massive amounts of them. It's not placebo or anything, man. I feel like after three or four days of consuming mainly greens, I have a clarity of mind and I feel lighter in my thinking and headaches are gone. That's cool. And I just feel great. Good. And I can feel the opposite as well. Got it. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:05:39):

I'll

Speaker 2 (00:05:39):

Give it a

Speaker 3 (00:05:40):

Shot.

Speaker 2 (00:05:41):

Eat your greens boys and girls. So you're a busy ass dude. Yeah, man. Which I now know because I've been talking to you for a few months now. I mean, I knew you were busy before and you have a manager. I do. At what point did you get a manager? And the reason I'm curious, we don't talk about management too often on this podcast, but it's a question that our listeners ask quite a bit is when should they get a manager? Is a producer manager worth it? What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3 (00:06:16):

Yeah, man. So I've had a manager for about two years now and his name is Brad Wiseman. Great guy. Check out. Hi Brad. Yep. And how it happened was, I dunno, a few years ago I was doing, I had a great year and I was doing all these pure noise bands and I was doing a lot of bands that he was actually working with at the time. So he had just heard my name and whatnot and he approached me and at first I was kind of weary about it. I was doing well on my own. I didn't have really a need for anyone to step in and help me get more stuff, but he was pretty persistent about it. So we kind of held off for maybe a couple months or a half a year or something, and then I had released this Comeback Kid record and then he loved it and he hit me up again and he's like, dude, we got to do this. And at the time I was really into the bands that he was working with as a booking agent and I liked his drive and his passion and his interest in me, and I also liked his taste in music. I liked the path that the bands he was working with were going down and I just wanted to be a part of that and I thought it would be a good idea to join forces with him basically.

Speaker 2 (00:07:49):

So you thought that his preexisting niche was one that you wanted to be a part of?

Speaker 3 (00:07:57):

Absolutely, yeah. I mean it was something that we were both ending up in not working together. He was working with similar bands that I was working with and it just kind of was a match that made sense just to kind of have each other's backs and hitting approaching projects from different angles is so valuable. And having someone who talks to band managers and band booking agents and stuff like that, just hearing my name kind of in the back or just from a different angle, like I said is very helpful. But you were doing fine before that? I was, but he's definitely taps into a scene that I can't be around a hundred percent. Even though we're working in the same vein, there's still aspects and people that I have means of getting in touch with or stuff like that. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (00:08:59):

Absolutely. So you did it when it made perfect sense Exactly. Almost organically.

Speaker 3 (00:09:04):

Yeah, absolutely was. And it's been working out.

Speaker 2 (00:09:07):

I think that where a lot of guys go wrong is that they try to force it. Sure. They think that if their career is not going well enough that that's a step they need in order to get their career on track. And I don't think it works that way. I think it's more of a thing where your career grows to a point where it makes sense that to get to the next level of growth you need to take on a business partner but before, but you have to be killing it to get to that point.

Speaker 3 (00:09:39):

I agree. I mean, one thing that I think about often is, and that maybe some people make a mistake that people make, is assuming that just because you have a manager, it means you're set. And that is not really the case. I mean, you still got to put in, you got to do your hustle even though I got a manager. It is the same for bands. Sometimes bands, they start doing well and they get a manager or they get a record label and they get lazy. They stop doing what got them there in the first place. You know what I mean? I think the trick is working hard as you do and then just finding someone that helps put fuel in the fire that helps put fuel in the fire, just gets it going harder. You can't be lazy,

Speaker 2 (00:10:29):

Which honestly is almost impossible until you're at a national level in my opinion.

Speaker 3 (00:10:34):

Sure.

Speaker 2 (00:10:34):

I mean, we're not talking about a business manager or a studio manager. We're talking about the fabled artist manager who is also taking on a producer as an artist, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (00:10:49):

Yes.

Speaker 2 (00:10:49):

I got a manager, it was managed for a while by Blasco, who's a really cool guy. I love him. And we didn't part ways, we didn't part ways or anything, I just switched directions and started doing this stuff full time

(00:11:06):

And I don't need management doing this, kind of charting my own path here. So it kind of is what it is. But the reason that I brought him on was because I was starting to get more and more bands and then I was working with other producers, so I was also doing bands for these guys and then also getting my own and shit was starting to get crazy. And they're starting to be conflicts of interest where I work as an engineer for one producer for a band that's managed by the same guy who is hiring me as the head producer of another band he manages and by and then getting dicked on payment on the one that I'm producing because I can't speak up and ruin the relationship for the producer I'm working under on the other project, if that makes sense. Put me in a real weird situation with politics and stuff and getting paid. So I hired a manager to come in and get me paid and it was at the point where I couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't send more emails, make phone calls or anything. I needed someone else to step in and handle it for me. It had gone beyond the point of what I could do.

Speaker 3 (00:12:29):

And that's a really good point or a good aspect of having a manager to where they can deal with business stuff and negotiate deals while you're being creative and doing what you got to do.

Speaker 2 (00:12:44):

Well, there's certain things that, it's almost like when managers fight with each other, they kind of know that it's all in sport in a way. They'll fight over a contract and then they'll go drinking. You know what I mean? Absolutely. They'll see each other out on the town and they'll be friends again. Whereas if you fight with somebody's manager like you as the producer or the artist fight with somebody else's manager, you could be burning a bridge. So it's good that if you're going to do battle that you have a manager do the battle for you.

Speaker 3 (00:13:23):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:13:23):

Definitely. Yeah. They just have this unspoken thing where they can fight with each other and still be cool later.

Speaker 3 (00:13:31):

I know it's kind of weird. It's a weird world.

Speaker 2 (00:13:34):

The music industry is a strange place and until you're in it and understand how all these little intricacies work, it can seem very, very weird to some people.

Speaker 3 (00:13:46):

Question for you though real quick. Your manager, is he someone that you pursued, liked what he was doing, liked what he was working with and pursued him? Or was he someone that approached you and said, Hey, I like what you're doing. I'd love to manage you.

Speaker 2 (00:13:59):

I went up to him. Cool. But the thing is that we had known each other for a really long time. My band did.

Speaker 3 (00:14:06):

That's great.

Speaker 2 (00:14:07):

Yeah, he plays bass for Ozzy Osborne and my band did Oz Fest in 2007 and we developed a relationship way back then. And so we've always been in touch and kept up with each other for years and years. So it wasn't like an out of the blue thing. I just hit him up and in an email I was just like, Hey, this is what I'm working on. This is how much money I'm owed right now. It was in the five figures. I was like, I need help. Do you want to do this? And we agreed right then and there. So there was no real crazy courtship or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (00:14:44):

Yeah, it seems like the good management relationships are the ones that when you're working with guys that you trust, you got to trust that they have your back and are doing the right thing for you and that you have a good relationship.

Speaker 2 (00:15:01):

It's interesting you say that though, because I feel like that trust shouldn't be blind. You should always be looking out and making sure that whoever you're working with in the music industry that their best interest is actually your best interest

Speaker 3 (00:15:19):

And

Speaker 2 (00:15:19):

That there's no conflicts of interest because conflict of interest is a very, very real thing. And if you can examine a situation and examine a relationship and come away from it and say to yourself, I trust this guy, I don't see any conflicts of interest, then fucking hang on. That's a good relationship. So now that you're not dealing with all the business stuff, has it freed you up to have any more of a personal life?

Speaker 3 (00:15:50):

No. No. No, not really. I mean the business part of this business really not the majority of handling emails and negotiating deals and try and find work is certainly important, but it's not like

Speaker 2 (00:16:11):

It wasn't taking that much time for you.

Speaker 3 (00:16:12):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:16:13):

So do you have a personal life? I don't, no. I'll just straight up say I

Speaker 3 (00:16:19):

Don't have much of a personal life. Most of my personal and friendly relationships are music people. When I go and hang out, I'm usually going to shows with people who are in the business or are my friends. I certainly consider them friends, but I don't have a girlfriend and my close friends live kind of far, so I do have my cousin who lives down the street.

Speaker 2 (00:16:51):

I feel like it's a lot easier to work when there's no girl in the picture.

Speaker 3 (00:16:56):

Yeah, that's something we should talk about here. It's certainly easier to work and I've been single, but not, it's not the greatest thing though, right? You feel like you mix and you work and you love life and things are great, but the only thing that'll make it better is if you had a partner.

Speaker 2 (00:17:20):

I don't know, talk to me. And the reason I say I don't know is because I guess I've had relationships straight for about 10 years, so I had no moments of single hood.

Speaker 3 (00:17:34):

Got it.

Speaker 2 (00:17:34):

And so this time around I kind of was like, I'm going to seize this and grow my companies and really try to, and by the time I get it with someone else, I want my whole life to look completely different. And so

Speaker 3 (00:17:53):

Now's the time to do it when you're single, right?

Speaker 2 (00:17:55):

Yeah, exactly. So I've been kind of really, really focused and now the mix has been growing crazy and some other things have been growing and it's really, really exciting and I don't feel like there's room for anybody else right now. So it's like when I go to sleep at night, I don't have that. It's weird. I know the feeling you're talking about and I have felt that way in the past, but I don't now because I

Speaker 3 (00:18:23):

Gotcha.

Speaker 2 (00:18:23):

This feels right. It feels like if someone was in my life, I wouldn't be able to give them what they needed, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (00:18:35):

Sure. Yeah, I know what you mean.

Speaker 2 (00:18:37):

So maybe later

Speaker 3 (00:18:38):

I hear you. Well, how long have you been single for

Speaker 2 (00:18:40):

Over a year at this point. Okay.

Speaker 3 (00:18:42):

Same over a year. You definitely get so much more work done when you're single.

Speaker 2 (00:18:47):

It's crazy.

Speaker 3 (00:18:51):

Work is hard and it's harder when you have a girlfriend, but we all got to figure out how to make that work. And I think the answer is just like you got to work even harder. You know what I mean? You got to be able to wake yourself up at eight in the morning because right now that I'm single, I'll start at 11 or noon and work until midnight. But if I had a girlfriend that would not be would fly. No. Yeah. So when you get that girl, I guess I'm going to have to start waking up super early and put in my 12 hours and get home so I can hang out with the lady.

Speaker 2 (00:19:34):

Dude, Joel gets up at like five 30 every morning.

Speaker 3 (00:19:37):

Oh, he has a kid too. He has three kids.

Speaker 2 (00:19:41):

Wow. That's serious. And he gets into the office by eight, I believe, and he's out by five. He does family stuff. He's like Dad of the year. He goes back to the studio at nine or 10:00 PM after the kids are asleep and he is hung out with his wife and does a few more hours.

Speaker 3 (00:20:03):

Well that's great. That's a great example of what you'll need to do when we're all men.

Speaker 2 (00:20:09):

Yeah. When we all grow up. Even though he's younger than me, is he? How old is he? I don't know, but I know he's got to be younger than me. I don't know. I'm 37. I know he's not 37. I think he's like 34, 33, maybe 30. Got it to 25. I don't know. I honestly have no idea what his age is, but I am pretty sure that he's younger than me, but he's definitely a hell of a lot more grownup than me.

(00:20:39):

Maybe that's what it is. I just don't want to fucking grow up and I know that at this point if I get into something serious, I'm going to have to act like a grownup. Right, me too. One thing though about relationships is that I have noticed that it is really, really hard to build a career and have an intense relationship at the same time. And I know a few people who have managed to pull it off, but by and large, most people I know who have had to really devote themselves to something and to make it in music, you do have to really devote yourself to it. It's very, very hard to keep that going. And I've seen a lot of people fall off of their career because they were afraid of losing a relationship, which then eventually fell apart. Anyways. So my advice to people, especially younger cats out there between the ages of 18 to 28 or something, put your career first because in all likelihood that girl's not going to be around in a few years, but if you worked your ass off, your career will be right.

Speaker 3 (00:21:43):

And if she's the right one, she'll stick around and she'll understand.

Speaker 2 (00:21:46):

Yeah, there is that too. But I wouldn't even worry about it being the right one. That's kind of what I'm thinking now. I hear you. Well, I also know a lot of dudes who thought they had the right one and it fell apart and then they reinvented themselves past after divorce and then only then started what they consider to be their lives. Like my friend Ryan Bruce,

(00:22:11):

He was on the podcast last May and he was in, you guys might know him as fluff from his YouTube channel, but he was some sort of something at Boeing for 10 years, had a wife everything, got a divorce, got fired, all that, and now suddenly he's like got a successful YouTube channel, a successful band works for Positive Grid is making a great living with music stuff and he completely reinvented himself. It's kind of either reinvented himself or got to live life on his own terms for the first time. And I've seen that a few times and so I dunno, I just think that people should put more focus into themselves. Focus on yourself.

Speaker 3 (00:23:07):

I hear you.

Speaker 2 (00:23:09):

Unless of you're Joel and you have kids,

Speaker 3 (00:23:11):

Right? I mean once you have kids and a wife, it's all,

Speaker 2 (00:23:16):

Yeah. Changes everything.

Speaker 3 (00:23:17):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:23:17):

So, alright, let's want to talk audio.

Speaker 3 (00:23:21):

Sure.

Speaker 2 (00:23:22):

Always. Alright, so what are you working on? Can you say,

Speaker 3 (00:23:25):

Yeah, working on this band called Volumes. Have you heard of them? Oh,

Speaker 2 (00:23:29):

You're working on volumes

Speaker 3 (00:23:30):

Right now?

Speaker 2 (00:23:30):

Yep.

Speaker 3 (00:23:31):

Yes sir.

Speaker 2 (00:23:32):

Yeah, I know volumes is,

Speaker 3 (00:23:34):

It's a really, really interesting and special project for me and I think there's a lot of cool things to be said about it. How I got it, what it's like mixing it, all that jazz. What do you want to start with?

Speaker 2 (00:23:47):

I want to start with that. I'd like you to come back on Nail the Mix in a few months and do a volume song.

Speaker 3 (00:23:53):

Cool.

Speaker 2 (00:23:54):

Now that we got that out of the way. Okay, so this is interesting to me. I had no idea it was volumes and you're known for what you're known for. You're not known for this genre of music, and so how does that happen? A lot of people have trouble getting outside of their own genre. That's why I want to know how the hell that happens.

Speaker 3 (00:24:14):

Sure. So I mean, I've made it a strong point personally to not be pigeonholed in any type of genre, although I love hardcore and metal. I don't want to be the metal guy or a metal guy, you know what I mean? But I would still love to mix it. I do a lot of pop punk, but I really don't want to be the pop punk guy. I just want to be a great mixer who mixes great songs and bands. So I've put a lot of effort into reaching out to different genres constantly. If I think the band is great, no matter what kind of style it is, I'll reach out and pursue and I won't be nervous. I'll try and find stuff that I've never done like folk or something. I haven't done that recently, but I would hit it up if I liked it.

(00:25:14):

So I think that's an important aspect and that's probably one of the reasons why I have this record. I pursued it. I thought it was great and I really do. I do think it's great. The way I got it was I know the producer, his name's Brandon Paddock and he actually works up the street from me. I work in North Hollywood and there's a ton of guys around here like Eric Ron, Brandon Paddock, Mike Green, Courtney Ballard. We're all working in the same vicinity and we often hang out, go get drinks and stuff. So anyways, one night I was hanging out with Brandon Paddock, what had happened.

(00:25:53):

I did some stuff with set it off and we've just been friends. I think there was one time where I think I texted him, I was like, dude, great job on the set it off record. I think it sounds awesome. Let's hang out and just talk music. And then we ended up going to sushi and he brought this guy named Diego who was in the band volumes and we just had sushi together and talked. We ended up going back to their pad and they showed me this song, or they basically showed me five songs on the record and I just kind of was blown away. And we hung out for about an hour or two, just talked music, talked about the mix. They asked for my opinion on a couple things. And anyways, basically I was like, you guys got to let me do a spec mix on this record. There's no way. I'm not going to let you not, there's no way I'm going to not let me make a spec mix.

Speaker 2 (00:26:49):

I'm not leaving this room until I get this spec mix.

Speaker 3 (00:26:53):

Exactly. So load those fucking files up, put it on a hard drive and let me have it. So basically that's what happened. I mean, I didn't get the files that night, they weren't quite done with it, but I let it be known that I wanted to do it, hit 'em up like a week or two after a couple times. I'm like, Brandon, make sure you get me those files. Let me do a spec mix. So I really didn't expect them to like it, but I was hoping they would. And Brandon Paddock himself is a fantastic mixer and fortunately he was open to letting me do a spec mix. Sometimes producers just don't want to hand it off, and I was lucky enough for him to allow me to do a spec mix. If everyone likes it in the camp, I could potentially score the record and that's exactly what I did. So they liked this mix that I did, and the rest is history. Here I am mixing the whole record. It's on Fearless. It's going to be awesome.

Speaker 2 (00:27:56):

I thought that Diego did their mixes.

Speaker 3 (00:27:59):

Dude, Diego is killer. Diego is such a talented kid. He did a lot of these rough mixes I think, or I don't know if they're actual mixes or whatever or what I'm hearing. But Diego's killer. He also, apparently he just produced the number one rap single in America on iTunes or something like that. It's called B Broccoli.

Speaker 2 (00:28:19):

Did he? Okay, so there you go. I thought for some reason that he was the guy that did all that stuff in volume. So maybe he's just smart enough to know that you should have someone else mix your band maybe.

Speaker 3 (00:28:31):

So apparently they had burden working on the record for a year and they had it where they had it and they were doing, they needed to get the record done too. I'm sure that kind of helped where it would just be the right decision to get it mixed by someone else. And

Speaker 2 (00:28:51):

With very, very few exceptions, I feel like even if you know how to mix, mixing your own band is a bad idea. And mind you, we've just had Ali from periphery on Nella Mix and he mixed the periphery record, which is his band, and it sounds incredible. So that's the exception I had in mind. Of course it can be done, but I just feel like it's real hard to get a bird's eye view of your own work when it's your music too. Maybe it helped that he was the bass player, nothing against bass players, but maybe Well, just because maybe someone else was writing more of the music or something.

Speaker 3 (00:29:38):

Right. Yeah, no, I hear that bass players usually are the guys who are holding it down, making sure everything's right and solid.

Speaker 2 (00:29:48):

They're the secret weapon of the secret badassness

Speaker 3 (00:29:53):

Basically,

Speaker 2 (00:29:53):

But not typically the main songwriters. Sure.

Speaker 3 (00:29:56):

Yeah, that was me in my band for sure.

Speaker 2 (00:29:58):

You were the sauce.

Speaker 3 (00:29:59):

I don't know about the sauce. I would just say the, how would you call it? I don't know, the core of the apple or something.

Speaker 2 (00:30:08):

The balls and thunder.

Speaker 3 (00:30:09):

Yeah, the thunder balls. Something like that.

Speaker 2 (00:30:12):

So with this volumes, what's challenging about it?

Speaker 3 (00:30:16):

Oh yeah. So let's talk about that. It is a challenging record for sure. The challenge to me is it is a genre that I don't normally do. So making something extremely heavy and aggressive, I can do, I love doing, but it's not something I often do. So on top of that, they're kind of taking a pop approach to the music.

Speaker 2 (00:30:46):

I was going to say, it's not just super heavy, it's futuristic and smooth and slick.

Speaker 3 (00:30:53):

Exactly. It's very melodic,

(00:30:57):

But they have very heavy vocals and very heavy music, so it's like gen rock mixed with pop music. I honestly feel sometimes that I'm mixing two different genres of music here. Normally I would take a heavy band and bury the vocal and just make sure the drums sound huge. The guitars sound huge, the bass sounds huge and kind of tuck the vocals behind the drums or something. But the vocals are the focal point. So trying to make the mix sound huge and heavy with vocals that are on top and upfront is extremely challenging, but it's a lot of

Speaker 2 (00:31:38):

Fun. What are some of your ways to get around that challenge?

Speaker 3 (00:31:41):

Long days of mixing, really just trying to, what are my challenges tool wise? Let me think. A lot of parallel. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:31:49):

Yeah. Let's talk technically. What are you doing to overcome that?

Speaker 3 (00:31:54):

Honestly, the thing to overcome it is to do something that I'm not used to doing, which is just pushing the vocals up and making sure every single word is heard and the S's aren't too crazy. That's also tough when you got really loud vocals, you got to figure out how to tame the S's. But technically how I do that, geez, I don't know, A lot of parallel compression, a lot of desing on the vocals. I guess figuring out the right kind of reverbs to where the reverb isn't making the mix sound muddy against all the wide guitars.

Speaker 2 (00:32:31):

Are you doing a lot of automation or are you mainly getting it to push through via expert compression and volume, or are you doing a lot of automation as well? No,

Speaker 3 (00:32:45):

I'm not a big automation guy. I like to get things eqd and compressed correctly to where it's flying through the mix and it's not changing much level, it's just holding it down. And so your mixing is just really loud all the time kind of thing. But for vocals, yeah, I mean I'm doing some parallel compression with an 1176. I'm using Joey Sturgis's gain reduction. Oh, that thing's a beast, that thing's crazy. So one thing that they love about their mix is just the super upfront vocals. And I was using all these different compressors, trying to hear every little piece of the vocal, like the breath and the spit and all this stuff. And Joey's plugin definitely makes that easy to do.

Speaker 2 (00:33:36):

That's what it's for really. No, that's exactly what it's designed to do really.

Speaker 3 (00:33:42):

Yeah. Yeah. It's working and I honestly not trying to sell his plugin or anything, but it really, I probably wouldn't have been able to get the vocal so upfront and spitty and snotty without that particular plugin.

Speaker 2 (00:33:57):

Well, it's designed as a vocal compressor and it's designed to be able to replace a huge chain of compressors that he would use as

Speaker 3 (00:34:09):

Gotcha.

Speaker 2 (00:34:10):

His way to get vocals to just be super aggressive but super upfront without being ruined. So I mean, that's what it's designed to do. And it's also secondary goal is for a situation where you're not recording into a stressor or some really good analog outboard on the way in. Maybe you're just recording into a preamp or an interface or something. It's supposed to be able to be brutal enough to kind of take the place of it though I like it. I like sending vocals through a distress, then an 1176 and then into the computer and then gained reduction.

Speaker 3 (00:34:54):

That's super in your face right there.

(00:34:57):

To add to what I'm doing to the vocals now, that's all kind of coming to me. I'm mixing the vocals. Like I said, they're like pop e, it's pop. So in a way I feel like I'm mixing a Britney Spears record or something on this gen rock stuff. It's super crazy. Anyways, I'm doing a lot of high-end boosts, like 12 K, 10 k, making the top end really crystally clear. A lot of different stages of compression I guess. I think I've got probably R compressor, Joey's plugin, a D Ser, and then the SSL channel, which I do all my EQing on, and that has the slow compression on it too. And then on top of all that, I have parallel compression.

Speaker 2 (00:35:49):

Yes. So it's pretty quick about the slow. I prefer the slow on the SSL channel. Joey loves the fast, I hate the fast, I don't like

Speaker 3 (00:35:58):

The fast.

Speaker 2 (00:35:59):

I hate it, hate it.

Speaker 3 (00:36:01):

I use the slow because right at the end, because I like the idea of making of to my ears. I'm sure it sounds different to different people, but when you have a slow compressor at the end that the very first word of a phrase will punch out to me. You know what I mean? So on the downbeat of a chorus, it'll be like a DB or two louder than the majority of the phrase. And I think that's kind of cool. It adds to the excitement to the mix. I have a lot of things with slow compression right at the end, like a drum bus, my base. So whenever the downbeats of chorus has hit or whatever, it just flicks at you

Speaker 2 (00:36:47):

And I guess that's your way of getting around the classic automation trick of automating up the downbeats.

Speaker 3 (00:36:56):

Sure, yeah, absolutely. I will literally only use parallel compression on my drum bust to make sure the downbeats are stronger than the rest. And

Speaker 2 (00:37:05):

You do that by using slow attacks?

Speaker 3 (00:37:07):

Exactly, yeah. And you know what, if I want the drum bus to be more sustainy and compressed sounding, I will work it in, you know what I mean, with a separate compressor, but there'll always be something at the end that's just chopping two or three dbs off or something.

Speaker 2 (00:37:26):

So speaking of the multiple stages of compression, is that something, do you do the multiple stages at low ratios or low gain reduction, like maybe two db here, then two db there, or are you just going for broke?

Speaker 3 (00:37:43):

I don't really have a set rule. I just kind of go for what feels right. But I usually end up with the first compressor on a vocal would be to just level it out a little bit. The second one would be probably a little more aggressive to get the breath and the snot kind of coming through pop on a dsr. Sometimes I'll have a DSR first in the chain. Sometimes I'll have two DSRs on the vocal one first and then one after the compressors, like compressing different high-end frequencies. And then the last one will be that slow, the slow one.

Speaker 2 (00:38:27):

So tell me if this is a good description. So the first one is kind of corrective

Speaker 3 (00:38:33):

In

Speaker 2 (00:38:33):

That it'll tame crazy peaks

Speaker 3 (00:38:36):

Or

Speaker 2 (00:38:37):

Whatever. The second one is where you get tone and attitude from by bringing up the snot, like you said, and the aggression. And then the last one is where you get that punch

Speaker 3 (00:38:49):

On

Speaker 2 (00:38:49):

The downbeats from. Totally. So the reason I'm spelling that out for people is because you're not just throwing a shit ton of compression on because CLA does it or something. Each one is playing a specific role.

Speaker 3 (00:39:05):

Yeah, I mean understanding that compression and what it's doing and why is what you got to know to be able to use multiple compressors effectively. Really.

Speaker 2 (00:39:18):

Yeah, totally. Well, I think when you're first starting out, you don't know what any of them do and you just, yeah, you just

Speaker 3 (00:39:27):

Go for it. You're like, fuck, that sounds cool. But yeah, it took me so long to understand compression. I didn't know what the hell I was doing, what the hell is attack and release. It took me five to 10 years to really, not to discourage anyone out there, but

Speaker 2 (00:39:46):

That's what it takes. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:39:48):

I mean you really got to zero in and use your ears and try a lot of different things and use different compressors and twist those knobs and try and figure out what the hell you're hearing. Read material, listen to these podcasts. It's tricky, but it's so much fun when you know what you're doing. Another cool trick I do with compression on this record too is side chaining effects, side chaining, like vocal delay and delay throws. So can you imagine what I'm doing at that aisle?

Speaker 2 (00:40:22):

So where is the compressor? Is it on the vocal or is it on the delay?

Speaker 3 (00:40:27):

The compressor would be on the delay.

Speaker 2 (00:40:29):

Okay. And is it triggering off of the vocal?

Speaker 3 (00:40:33):

Correct.

Speaker 2 (00:40:34):

So that when the vocal goes out, the delay gets louder?

Speaker 3 (00:40:36):

Correct. That's cool. That's one of the funnest things to do for me, especially with delay effects.

Speaker 2 (00:40:46):

And this is, again, I feel like I'm learning a lot about your style right here. So you're doing a lot of stuff that some guys might do via automation. You're just getting your compressors to do that for you.

Speaker 3 (00:40:59):

Exactly. Definitely.

Speaker 2 (00:41:01):

Actually, I did a reverb course for our URM enhanced level, and I went through that exact technique. I love that technique. It's great. That's so cool because it is perfect. I like really, really textured and busy delays. But they're, the problem with those, as you well know, is that they will muddy up a mix in a heartbeat. So the real trick is to get them out of the way when the actual material is out front, like the guitar solo or the vocal, and to then let them be awesome delays once the vocal or solo is out of the way. And yeah, I found that that side chain throw trick is fantastic, dude. So fun

Speaker 3 (00:41:48):

And the you could fuck with the release and the attack on that kind of stuff and make it feel like it's being thrown at you literally if you slow down the release and it'll kind of come at you a little slower if you want it right in your face right away, you just make the release really fast. If you want the delays to feel like it's punching during a vocal, then you lay back on the attack and you let it cut through a little bit if you want. It's fun stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:42:23):

What's interesting to me about using compressors for throws, you could do this all with volume automation. You could, and I've done it plenty of times, but there's something about setting the compressor properly, which I don't know, it feels like the sonic feel of it when you get it right, I think is way cooler than anything I've been able to nail with volume automation for some reason. Maybe I'm just not that good at writing Awesome volume automation or something.

Speaker 3 (00:43:00):

I totally agree. I mean, that's what I mean. It's like you can screw it that side chain compressor and do whatever you really want it to do and come at you in a different way or put an effect on it or whatever.

Speaker 2 (00:43:17):

So you started talking about compressors on drums real quick.

Speaker 3 (00:43:22):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:43:23):

So do you use a lot of parallel stuff on drums too?

Speaker 3 (00:43:28):

Yeah, I mean, I'm not a huge parallel guy. I know a lot of guys are for sure, and I do use parallel compression, but it's not an end all be all kind of thing to me. For drums. I'll usually have a mono compressor just compressing the snare and kick together, and I simply use that to make the kick and snare snap a little bit more, or depending on how I set it, it has a little bit more sustain on the kick and snare, but I'll throw that down the center. I won't overthink it and then I'll go up and down on it if I want that kick and snare to feel like it's more in your face.

Speaker 2 (00:44:10):

I think that when a lot of people read the words, put them through a compressor to glue them together, you feel like you know what that means. But those words in and of themselves are kind of deceptive. It's almost like a feel thing, like a timing thing kind of.

Speaker 3 (00:44:29):

Sure.

Speaker 2 (00:44:31):

Obviously it doesn't change the timing, but you can change the emphasis of how the beat feels by how you adjust the compressor. And so by putting two rhythmical anchors through a compressor together, kicking a snare, I mean those are your anchors for the whole song. You can adjust how they feel together. You can glue them into a feel.

(00:44:58):

Joel did a course called Hearing Compression, where it's mind blowing how well he describes it, but he goes through how to do that on a distress for vocals, guitars, drums, but really that's cool. It's the only time I've ever seen someone really display in detail like crystal clear how a compressor can affect your perception of the timing and of the feel of the music. Interesting. It's really crazy. That's rad. One of my favorite uses for parallel is just to get sustained, especially for corrective measures. Like say you get a drum recording, that's pretty good, but for some reason the room's just not long enough. Or the symbols, maybe the drummer hit super hard, so hard that he caused the symbols to kind of choke themselves out a little bit. You know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 3 (00:45:56):

Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (00:45:57):

And

Speaker 3 (00:45:57):

You're looking for more sustain.

Speaker 2 (00:45:59):

Yeah. Yeah. I find is great for that. Just blend it in nicely. I find that that's a good one.

Speaker 3 (00:46:07):

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean sometimes I'll do that too. It kind of depends on what you want to do to the drums and if you're looking for that sustain. So how do you go about doing that? What will you send through and what will you set that compressor to? Will it be fast or slow or release

Speaker 2 (00:46:26):

Attack? It'll be fastest as fuck attack. I mean, it'll be fast.

Speaker 3 (00:46:32):

So you chop off the transient

Speaker 2 (00:46:33):

Oh yeah. It'll be fast attack and a slow release and it'll be kind of obliterated on the gain reduction just to where by itself it's going to sound like a distorted, flattened poy mess. Shit, basically. Well, the thing is, if you do it on really, really good compressors, with good rooms, it actually sounds really fucking cool. But the way to describe it would just be dirty and pumpy, but then just blend it in really quietly under the normal rooms or overheads until they just start to sound longer. Right. That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (00:47:23):

I just started doing, I'd never really did, what's it called, bus compression? Drum bus compression. I've only started to do that recently in the last couple months, but I'll always end up using some kind of compressor that has a mix knob on it so I can kind of do what you're talking about. Still keep my idea of the parallel compression for the attack, which has very slow attack, so it's snap cracking, but then using the idea that you're having on a mixed knob on the drum bus, that's cool.

Speaker 2 (00:48:07):

So you blend in the sustain to taste

Speaker 3 (00:48:11):

Exactly

Speaker 2 (00:48:12):

As they would say on message boards.

Speaker 3 (00:48:14):

Right. To me, it's so easy to kind of fuck up your drum and just make it two in your face. And I don't love that. And I try to keep my master mix not too compressed. Actually, one of the things I was going to talk about on the nail the mix thing is what I'm doing with my master bus, how I'll go back and forth from a limited mix and an unlimited mix, and I'll make sure it sounds both or good in both worlds.

Speaker 2 (00:48:51):

That's great that you're planning on talking about that because people really are, I don't know, it's like the final mystery of life or something is the masterclass. Everyone's always curious about it.

Speaker 3 (00:49:06):

It's such a world and it's so hard to deal with. I can talk about it for hours. We can talk a little bit about it now or we can wait until now.

Speaker 2 (00:49:14):

Next. Yeah, let's talk about it. There's nothing, there's nothing that we will talk about now that isn't going to be explained in a million times more detailed on nail the mix just because you have the DAW in front of you and people can hear what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (00:49:30):

So I guess I'll just get started. I mix with, I'll constantly go back between my limited mix and the unlimited mix. In my opinion, it needs to sound really good in both worlds and level matched or not level matched well, sure, yeah. It can be level matched, but I mean my limited one. Yeah. Yeah, it could be level matched for sure. I know in the end it's going to get mastered and it's got to get limited and it's got to get loud and competitive. So my mix mix will usually tend to have drums super loud, not super loud, but louder than you might think. And then, but not obnoxious. It can't sound stupid. It can't sound like it's not mixed.

Speaker 2 (00:50:23):

Let's talk about that for a second because is something that a few years ago used to trip me up as a mixer was what volume do you set it at when sending to mastering? And then I first started when people would tell me, my mentors would tell me, you want the snare poking maybe 1.5 DB louder than you would normally have it. I would try that, but my ears weren't that sensitive yet, so it didn't sound like enough. So have them like six DB louder. And the mastering engineers would be like, dude, turn your drums down. So then now that I'm a lot more developed, that 1.5 or two DB louder on the kick and snare, man, I totally hear it. It's so much louder, but it's still not so loud that it doesn't sound like a mix. It still sounds like a mix, just the drum up mix.

Speaker 3 (00:51:13):

Exactly. When you fuck with a real mastering engineer who does a great job, I have noticed that the ones that I love and the bands usually love are when they don't fuck with your mix. And it doesn't sound different. It just sounds really loud and just in charge.

(00:51:32):

But overall, the blend is pretty much the same. It's your mix, but better. Yeah, just bigger and louder. And so here's a funny story. It actually happened to secrets on State champs. I had been mixing like that and my drums were really loud and they got Ted Jensen to master it, and there was a song or two where I got it back. I'm like, holy fuck, that sounds like my mix, the unmastered version of my mix just extremely loud, you know what I mean? And I kind of freaked out and I was like, God, the drums sound so loud. And I actually ended up reprinting two mixes. One of them was Secrets with the snare drum a little loud, and it cost me a couple hundred bucks personally because

Speaker 2 (00:52:29):

Ted Johnson is expensive,

Speaker 3 (00:52:32):

He ruled, it's actually embarrassing how much it costs to get him to master it.

Speaker 2 (00:52:39):

I know he mastered my band's record once.

Speaker 3 (00:52:41):

Yeah, it's amazing. But totally worth it. But God, when you're dealing with that kind of money, you really need to be working with a label that is willing to invest a huge amount of money to get it mastered like that. Anyways, totally rad. My point is, when you screw around with mastering engineers like that who know what they're doing, they are going to make your mix. The master's going to sound like your mix. So my point is your foam master, it's just got to sound good in both worlds.

Speaker 2 (00:53:20):

It's funny, man. The time that Ted Jensen mastered my band's record, Colin Richardson had mixed it and I didn't understand how it could possibly sound better than Colin's mix. And when Ted did it, it wasn't a million times better, it was just louder and cooler,

Speaker 3 (00:53:40):

But it

Speaker 2 (00:53:40):

Was still his mix,

Speaker 3 (00:53:41):

Right? His sound and great engineers is like, well, specifically his sound. It's like it gives you that extra edge when it's coming through streaming sites and Go on now, what were you going to say?

Speaker 2 (00:53:57):

I was just going to say it wasn't like this grand transformational event where it was like the zero became the hero suddenly.

Speaker 3 (00:54:05):

Right? Yeah. That's how I felt too. Getting it back. They fucking ruled though, man. That was cool.

Speaker 2 (00:54:13):

Yeah, it's like the Midas touch almost. It's weird. How do they not touch the mix? How do they keep it sounding like your mix but make it sound so much better but not get intrusive and it is crazy. I

Speaker 3 (00:54:30):

Don't get it. Yeah, it's some kind of magic they're doing. The thing that blows my mind is getting it super loud and making the drums still feel punchy and transient heavy. Kind of just blows my mind.

Speaker 2 (00:54:41):

Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:54:42):

That's it. I dunno. Did that help with the bus thing?

Speaker 2 (00:54:45):

Yeah, I believe it did. Cool. I think that a lot of people are trying to master before they're ready to master maybe and are fucking with the master bus also just on a mixing level before they're ready, meaning they don't have good balances yet and they're kind of relying on the master to fix a lot of their mixing problems. And

Speaker 3 (00:55:13):

Let me add to that. I find that people are using, they're trying to beat previous recordings or they're trying to get louder than other things, which they can and are doing in a lot of instances, especially with this new slate stuff and Joey's thing, that shit is loud. Everything, it gets it really loud, but at the same time, you kind of got to step back and maybe listen to it at a low level and really make sure you're doing the right thing to your mix before you keep twisting those knobs harder and harder. Sometimes I feel like if you're totally squishing out the dynamics of your mix, you're losing a lot of excitement.

Speaker 2 (00:56:00):

And the thing is, too, so for Dale, the mix subscribers, if you watch Joey mix something for instance, and he goes to town with his limiters and all that, he's removing the dynamics in that way, but he's returning them back through his automation and through all the other stuff that he does. So he has a whole process to where he likes to remove dynamics and then he likes to control them completely. So it's not that it's a completely lifeless mix. If anything, this mix is slam. So definitely I think a lot of people don't realize that there's a second part to that process. You're not just limiting the shit out of things. You're taking out the dynamic range so that you can add it in later and you are supposed to add it in later. How do you do that? You don't add it in through a lot of automation lots clever wizard stuff. Interesting.

Speaker 3 (00:57:03):

That's cool. See, that's something that I don't do, but it's super interesting to hear that he's doing that. I know he masters his own stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:57:12):

Yes. He gets down to syllables and cutting out all the syllables on a certain and putting them on their own track and giving them their own eq, and he'll automate EQs and automate. He automates everything. It's crazy.

Speaker 3 (00:57:31):

Cool.

Speaker 2 (00:57:31):

So the thing is that in order for him to do that consistently and reliably, there can't be movement in the tracks already.

Speaker 3 (00:57:40):

Gotcha.

Speaker 2 (00:57:41):

Right? So he's going to be adding the movement in through his little wizard works. So if you're watching Joey and all you do is throw on the limiter because he does it, you're missing the whole other part of why he's awesome. Interesting. Yeah, he should do a course on that, man. Has he ever done a mastering course? No, he hasn't done mastering. But one thing I am that I did tell him I want him to do and he agreed is they're called Fast Tracks. They're these mini courses that we do on our URM enhanced level. They're like 90 minute, two hour long courses on one topic. And I really want him to do one on automation, specifically his style of automation. It's crazy. Cool. That's rad. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:58:34):

If I had to put, I had love to see that. I was going to say if I had to, me too, for the kids out there who are interested in doing that, because mastering is such a intense and real job, if they get a chance, learn the craft for sure from guys like Joey or whoever or invest some of that budget that you're getting paid to do that record, find a mastering guy and try it out. And here's a little secret. You could get spec Masters from a lot of different guys.

Speaker 2 (00:59:12):

A lot of guys that are really awesome will do spec masters. There's a guy in our group that you might know him. Mike Kian.

Speaker 3 (00:59:21):

No, I haven't heard of

Speaker 2 (00:59:22):

Just because Dan Eff and stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:59:25):

Of course

Speaker 2 (00:59:26):

Dan Eff turned us on to Mike Kian. He calls Mike the next Ted Jensen. So Joel has had him master stuff and some guys in the group have, and he's incredible. So anyone who's a subscriber can hit him up. Rug Planet mastering, he's phenomenal. We're probably going to have him do a mastering course. He's just great. But yeah, you should check this dude out, man for corn F to give him that kind of endorsement says a lot, I think. Definitely. For sure.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):

Good stuff. I love mastering

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):

You.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):

I mean, I appreciate the art so much. It's real.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):

So have you ever had that experience of hating mastering though, of getting your mixes back and being like, what happened?

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):

Of course. That's why I have so much appreciation for the guys that do it. Well, it's almost like getting someone choosing the guy who's going to mix your record. It's not as strong as that. But different guys will master different ways, and some of them I like, some of them I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):

Yeah. Well the thing is, if you make the right choice, it might not be as impactful as the mixer, but

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):

Not

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):

Far off. If you make the right choice.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):

If the guy nails it and then so does the mixer. You're golden.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):

Absolutely. There's some guys out there who are, they got their stuff on the playlist and it's either super loud or it sounds really squashed sometimes when you're hearing stuff on playlist. And if something sounds really squashed and almost like lo-fi or something compared to others, it's probably has to do with a mastering engineer.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):

I agree. So let's change topics real quick. There's something I wanted to ask you about that. This also is something that comes up with our subscribers a lot. We try to vary things up on the mix and one month we'll have periphery. Next month we'll have you doing state champs. We had a machine head before then we had pop rock one month, and most of our subscribers like that, but some of them are into the genre they're into. And so they'll get bummed out that something that isn't their particular favorite thing is coming up. And I always tell them not to look at this as though you're a fan boy, getting some tracks to have a fanboy time on. Look at it as though practice for the real world. Because in the real world you don't always get to choose where your mixing paychecks are coming from, and you don't always get to work with bands you love if you do wonderful. But it's not always going to be that way. So I'm just wondering what your feelings are on taking gigs for money that you might not necessarily versus just working with bands you love and how you balance that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):

Got it. Yeah, that's tough because it's really tough to consistently work with bands you love, but it's certainly the goal and something that everyone should strive for. There are gigs that I take that I don't necessarily love, but I'll do it because it's a paycheck. But that's just, you got to be working all the time and you're not always going to have that band you love in every time. So did I answer that good at all?

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):

Yeah, I think so. The thing is the lights aren't going to keep themselves on and to make a living from mixing, you need to be mixing a lot. The days of getting $30,000 to mix a heavy record, it's kind of over for the most part.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):

Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):

And I am just saying, I remember when some guys I knew were making that to mix something and it's like, that's awesome and all, but in all reality, to be a mixer, you have to mix all the time and likelihood you're not going to like that many bands if you're fortunate enough to some of them. Cool. So what are you going to do the rest of the time, you're just not going to take the work. If you don't take the work, you're going to fall behind in your career. Other people are going to get the gigs and one thing is going to lead to another, and you won't be as in demand and you'll lose your momentum. So it's a choice. Do you want to do this as a hobby or as a career? And if you want to do it as a career, you got to just say yes a lot, even if it's not your favorite band. That's

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):

True. That's true. But at the same time, you do need to be selective though, just to add to it. What I mean by it's difficult is trying to find the balance of or saying yes and no at the right time. That's something that needs to be developed and figured out, but I do think the end all goal is to work with bands and music you're passionate about or else you're not going to love what you're doing and you're going to start doing a poor job.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):

Yeah, of course. I'm not suggesting that people hate their lives, right? But I mean, now you're coming to a point where you have the skills and the ability, meaning in your career to be like, Hey, volumes, you got to let me do a test mix. You're going to let me, and you have the skills to pull it off, but you didn't always. Right. There was a time when you weren't as good of a mixer and you didn't have the kinds of connections that you do now where maybe you wouldn't have gotten the volumes record, I don't know how many years ago, but there was that time in your career because all of us start at the bottom, right? Yes. You would've had to say yes to a lot more stuff back then just to keep the lights on, I'm assuming.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):

No, definitely. I mean, for sure. I totally agree. I would probably say that the month or two before I got the volumes thing, I was probably working on something that I didn't particularly love or wasn't as passionate about or something. It definitely happens. I think that the way you help gauge that, I think is setting the right price for your service. If it's something that you don't particularly love, but they're willing to pay a price that you'd be willing to do it at, that's important to figure it out. That's

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):

A good way to put it too, because there comes a point where if you're getting paid enough, how bad is it really? You just mix some music or record some music. Go on. Totally. There could be way worse things you could be doing with your day, and so I'll just say that one of the things that comes with a successful career is the ability to have more control over who you work with. That's hashtag life goals sort of thing, is getting to the point where you can chart your own course and work with people that you feel passionately about, but to get to that point, you're going to have to, I think, have a wide range of clients and just get good at a bunch of different things. Totally. Do death metal one month and pop punk the next, and just get good at it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):

Yeah, for sure. Keep the range wide. When people ask me what kind of music I work on, I say anything under the rock umbrella, whether it be metal or punk or emo or acoustic or whatever. As long as it rocks, I guess acoustic doesn't rock all the time, but you know what I mean. If it has guitars and stuff, yeah, keep that range wide. Definitely don't be narrow-minded when it comes to mixing.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):

And with that, Mr. Kyle Black, I'm going to cut this episode off. It's been cool. Amazing having you on for part two.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):

Yeah, that was fun.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):

Yeah, can't wait to hang out. Do out in Orlando three? Yeah. Well, part three is going to be our q and a session, I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):

Sweet. That'll be fun.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):

And then we'll do part four on Nail the Mix.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):

Cool. Thanks for having me again. I appreciate it. That was a lot of fun. Likewise, man. Thank you. Cool. The

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):

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