Ty Acord: Networking Without Being a Punisher, Music Theory, and Building a Production Career

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Drum Forge. Drum Forge is a forward-thinking developer of audio tools and software for musicians and producers alike. Founded on the idea that great drum sounds should be obtainable for everyone, we focus on your originality, drum forge, it's your sound. And now your host, Eyal Levi.

Speaker 2 (00:22):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast. I'm Eyal Levi, and with me is our special guest Ty Accord. Joey and Joel are actually filming some stuff for you guys, the listeners that I think you're all going to love. So for the first time ever, I'm going solo on this one. Raw dogging it, but so yeah, me and Ty are here. Thanks for being here, dude.

Speaker 3 (00:44):

Yeah, no worries man. It's good.

Speaker 2 (00:46):

Yeah, just hanging out while they film some stuff. I'm really, really excited to have you on here because I first heard about you through our mutual friend Finn McKenty.

(00:59):

He's like my best friend and he's actually been on the show a number of times. I've worked with him a lot and we're really, really good friends, and he introduced me to your old band issues three years ago, and he was like, this is the shit. This is going to actually go places. You need to check it out. And I checked it out and I was like, wow. I was wondering when this was going to happen, when you were going to get actual musicians coming into this style of heavy music, but adding actual pop on top of it, it's such an obvious thing to do. It surprised me why it didn't happen earlier. So when I heard it, I was like, wow, these guys, they understand something about music that the metal bands who try to sing clean chorus don't get, they have actual melodies and actual chord progressions. It actually goes somewhere musically the way that you would hear on a pop record or on what I call real music. And so I was immediately impressed and then I found out that you guys actually do know how to make real music, but you went to jazz school and are an actual musician. So I just wanted to lead with that. So I mean, I'm sure you've probably been asked this a bunch, but I'm sure you're going to say that studying formally made a big difference.

Speaker 3 (02:23):

Yeah, I mean, it's always an ongoing debate because some people are very passionate that you don't need it. And some people are very passionate the opposite way. I think it's just not the same answer for everybody. I mean, me personally, it's something that I was interested in getting and learning and it helps me, but then some people don't need it. But yeah, just for me personally, I didn't want to ever listen to a song, any style of music, and not know what was going on and not know how to recreate it.

Speaker 2 (02:54):

I completely agree. I come from a semi schooled background, so I'm kind of on the side of schooling. However, I feel like I understand why some people are against it in that I'm sure you encountered this in music school, the dudes who practice their scales all day long, and then when they go to do something, it just sounds like what they were practicing, which is scales all day long. Or the guys who learned a little bit of theory or harmony. And then when they go to write, all they're thinking of is in terms of options rather, what options, what can I do here rather than feeling something and writing it. And then maybe when they go back to edit it thinking, okay, what can I do to make this cooler? Their first step is to go towards the theory and that ruins music, in my opinion.

Speaker 3 (03:49):

Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (03:50):

Did you ever go through that phase?

Speaker 3 (03:52):

Well, I mean, not me personally. I noticed that too, and at first I didn't know how to put my finger on it, and I was like, what's different about how they're doing it and what can I do to not ever do that? And that's basically what it is. What you just described is kind of just sitting from a very technical standpoint. And yeah, it's just all about feeling. But me, it was always just like I would feel a certain way or feel something and want to go somewhere, and if I didn't have the tools to get there, I would just get frustrated. So that is why I chose to learn. And I think running into a lot of musicians and this and that, and especially people that don't know theory or use theory, just assume that everyone that is schooled is doing that. Like, oh, you just go by the book and by your brain and you don't go by your heart.

(04:41):

It's like, nah, son. I'm still writing from feeling and passion, but I just want to have bigger toolbox. I want a bigger vocabulary. But, and then of course you can just take that to the extreme and only use your schooling and rules and think of it. What weird thing. I remember being in jazz school and there were those people there. It was like, what weird crazy thing can I do at this part and this part and this part? Like, well, the whole song, how has a whole song sound? And in my opinion right now it sounds like shit.

Speaker 2 (05:09):

Well, what's this crazy thing you can do to evoke an emotion from the listener? I think in my opinion, that's way crazier than any theoretical thing that you can come up with. That's the real challenge. I went to Berkeley, and I don't know if you experienced this, but did you ever have those professors at your school who were masters of the technical side and they would play you their music and it was like maybe the most technically proficient shit on the planet, but God, the worst music?

Speaker 3 (05:45):

Definitely. Definitely. And it's funny, that exists in a bunch of different parallels, especially with electronic music as well. People that are Ableton certified and know every single routing possibility and can design any sound ever. And then you listen to their AP and it's like, what? You know what I

Speaker 2 (06:06):

Mean? Absolutely. That reminds me of when I first moved to Florida to work with Jason Soff. I had to learn Pro Tools because I didn't know it before, and I decided to get a certification and I left after three days. It was like, what are we doing spending all this time on every single thing that the software can do, and in reality, I need to know the 10 things it does best for this specific application. So we didn't do anything with editing drums in that certification. For instance, they didn't teach me the best ways to use Beat Detective to edit together a metal record or something. It was just like this file menu, this menu does this, this menu does this. So yeah, I feel like it's almost a distraction from doing the actually hard work. I feel like when people spend way too much time on that stuff, it's almost, I mean, I don't want to say that it doesn't take a lot of work to learn all that stuff. It does, and kudos to anyone who values learning, but I feel like it's a distraction from the actual hard work of doing something that connects with people.

Speaker 3 (07:21):

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (07:22):

So right now, are you doing more writing than production?

Speaker 3 (07:26):

Well, yeah. So I'm doing I guess a combination of production and writing for other artists as well as kind of my project sort of. I'm not going super hard on anything that's my personal music yet. I mean, I'm doing remixes and releasing stuff here and there, but mainly just want to build rapport and kind of get my feet wet and build relationships and kind of still just develop myself before I go into the world as like, okay, I'm a ready to find artist. So I've been doing some production for this guy, Matt Coma, this singer Gallant and some other people, and just trying to get placements and things like that because I just feel like that is making me a better producer and this and that. So I don't want to just start doing an album right now, you know what I mean? So that'll come later or whatever. Yeah, so basically what I'm doing is just getting in the rooms with a bunch of writers, a bunch of artists, and kind of working on their records and their albums right now.

Speaker 2 (08:33):

I think that that's actually really, really smart. Here's something that maybe you can help the nubs out with because you touched on building rapport and building relationships and how in the music industry or entertainment industry, people always say network, network, network. You got to network, you got to network. But in reality, for a lot of dudes who don't already have a career, networking could mean going to NAM and punishing people with really lame business cards or just doing a really, really bad job of networking. It's actually the opposite of networking. It's punishing.

Speaker 1 (09:11):

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (09:12):

Do you have any suggestions for dudes who don't say they didn't come from a really big band and then move into pop, which makes perfect sense? Say they're starting out and they want to build relationships. Do you have any suggestions for people at that level? Yeah,

Speaker 3 (09:30):

So I guess I've always had kind of a get in where you fit in mentality and also just like when you meet people and meet important people is just knowing how to handle those situations and not becoming the Punisher. My whole start to the music industry, the whole reason I connected with Tyler and issues even formed was because I moved down to California for an internship and I just started working at this label studio. It was Atlantic Records studio in Hollywood, and I was just cleaning trash and things in that. And then that turned into an engineering position. And then when I was engineering, I got studio time and connected with somebody that knew Tyler, this and that, whatever. But basically I just kind of figured out any way to get into the industry and then kind of just grew from there. And obviously that's going to be different for everybody's stories, but I think that reaching out to people, talking to people is never bad, whether it's on the internet or at a show or whatever like that, but it's just going from there is really, really, really the big pivotal part because there's so many people that get in the room or get in a position where they're talking with someone or showing somebody something and it starts off great, but then it just goes to absolute crap because they're either way too overbearing or too desperate or very, very, very obviously just trying to get something out of someone.

(11:05):

And I guess I just always had the mentality that if they don't, you know what I'm saying, if you just treat 'em like a normal person, you just act like a normal person and you're not always trying to just force yourself or force your stuff onto someone. A lot of times people just naturally, I guess to put it very frankly, just like you better, they naturally want to ask you more questions. They naturally want to help you out, and they naturally want to hang out with you, and you find yourself naturally invited to these whatever situations, whether it's a party convention, I don't know, a studio, whatever, invited into these people's lives because you're just a chill dude and people want to work with you. And obviously if you work hard and get your music as good as it could possibly be and impress people, obviously that takes you as well. But I've just seen so many people get to this point where it's like, oh yeah, I met this person and this person, and then I called him 25 times and he never called me back. It's like, dude, it's like, dude, you got to just chill.

Speaker 2 (12:07):

I think that, have you ever heard that cliche about marketing that it takes seven times of seeing a product somewhere on a billboard and then on TV before the average person decides to buy? I feel like that principle could be applied to networking in that if you go into a meeting, meeting someone, I don't mean an actual plan meeting. If you go into meeting someone like at Nam or something with the idea that you're going to get a deal right then and there from this person, that is the wrong way to do it. All you should be hoping to do is to get handshake. Exactly, and to meet someone so that maybe in a few months you meet them again and you remember each other, you had a cool conversation, and then all you do is say, Hey, what's up? Cool meeting you again, talk some more. And then over the course of time, it turns into a relationship and those relationships bear fruit. But I feel like people try to do things way too quickly. And for the dude who's in the middle of Idaho, this is probably depressing news, but I mean, did you move to where the work was?

Speaker 3 (13:16):

Yeah, absolutely. People tell me that all the time. It's like, well, what's going to happen where I am? I was like, dude, I was in that position as well. I packed my bags. I just went, I mean, LA isn't the answer for everyone. Nope. But for what I wanted to do and what I wanted to get into, it was so that's exactly what I did. I just went to where the work was.

Speaker 2 (13:36):

I feel like almost everybody I know who's done something has packed their bags at some point. I mean, we all know the person who made it out of St. Podunk town, but that's such an exception.

Speaker 3 (13:50):

Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (13:51):

Yeah, don't count on that in my opinion. Another thing I find interesting that I feel makes what we're talking about more true is, at least from my experience when I've met people through networking situations, typically the things that bear fruit a year later, were not expected. It's like a year later and going to dinner at some point, stopping through LA at some point and having dinner together, seeing them at a party, all kinds of stuff that leads up to suddenly they know what you do and they think you're cool and someone else that did the same thing you do got sick or is on tour or is working with Janet Jackson on her comeback. I don't know. That would be cool. But yeah, something like that, and then your name pops up. I've never really gotten anything out of hounding somebody.

Speaker 3 (14:53):

Yeah, exactly. People don't like to be hounded. And so many people I run into because I've just brushed shoulders with some pretty big names now just in random things. And every time, oh, this is my main producer, this guy, or whatever, every time I see a relationship built between a superstar and their people, the story is always the same. They were just really cool. We started hanging out, we just vibed. It's like you think, at least for me growing up, I think, oh, only the very, very best guitar player is going to be in the room. Nope.

Speaker 1 (15:25):

It's

Speaker 3 (15:26):

Like, no, this person was just the coolest guitar player. He was on time, didn't hound anyone, and he was talented. So it's like that's always how it happens.

Speaker 2 (15:34):

And if he's awesome, then that helps too. I feel like the skill part is just assumed when people are like, but this person who's so great didn't get anywhere. This world's not fair. It's like, well, actually the world is not supposed to be fair. The world just is what it is, and your skill is not enough. Your skill actually at the highest levels is assumed, and you don't have to be an Olympic athlete, musician, but you have to be good enough to deliver what you're supposed to deliver. And if you can't do that, then the conversation isn't even open to go to the next level. I think a lot of people, they get stuck at thinking that just the amount of time they put into actually getting good at music is enough where it's kind of saying that love is enough in a relationship.

Speaker 1 (16:30):

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (16:31):

Where we all know that it's not. So, alright, so you're an engineer, you're a producer, and I know that you've worked with other guys like our friend Chris Crume, who is amazing. Do you find it difficult to work with other producers, engineers on your projects or do you take a, you put on a different cap or do you work together? How does that work? I know Chris is a strong minded dude and he's a great engineer. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (17:00):

I think it's a combination of just, I mean, my goal is always to work with someone. I've seen people got in the rooms with people where it's like, okay, well I'm going to run the show no matter what. My goal is always to find out how we can work together. And especially with Chris, it's a really good balance of his strengths versus my strengths versus just what he does and what I do. You know what I'm saying? I am a confident producer in the way that I can shape sound, make beats, key parts, things like that. And I can mix as well. But somebody who's dedicated their life to knowing how to get amazing drum sounds is Chris. I haven't, you know what I'm saying? If somebody held a gun to my head and said, look, you have to record this issues album, I could do my best and it would sound all right, but I just like taking the backseat to someone who really, really knows what they're doing in areas that I don't.

(18:03):

And Chris is an expert and has basically my life's span of experience in certain areas that I just want him to shine on. And I don't know, it's very easy for me to just let someone do what they do. It's not easy for everyone, but it is for me, and every time I work with a new person, I always try to find out where they're really good at and what I'm really good at and how we can work, even if we're good at the same things. Sometimes it's cool to just see how they do it, but yeah, I don't know. I'm always collaborative minded and always try to find, I mean, sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes certain people, I get in, we just don't click or whatever, but at least I try.

Speaker 2 (18:51):

I actually totally back that mentality. I was just watching Mark Cuban, he was on Creative Live with Chase Jarvis, the founder, CEO, and I guess he was doing something called 30 Days of Genius where every day he would talk to somebody else who's done just amazing things. And anyways, mark Cuban was on there and he was saying that his whole MO towards working with people is find someone that's good at shit that I'm not that good at, which I think that's brilliant. And I've also done the same thing when I had my band. I tried to be the worst musician in the room, get the people that can do what I can't do. I'm not that great of a shredder, get an amazing shredder or in the studio, I am okay at drum tuning, for instance, but not, I wouldn't call myself an expert. So I have a drum tech who's like the listeners of this podcast know Matt Brown.

(19:48):

He's incredible. Get someone like that to tune the drums. And then my drum productions sound great because I didn't have an ego about tuning the drums. I feel like that's everybody, it's a common thing to say ego ruins things, but I feel like sometimes that's just kind of thrown around what does that actually mean? And I feel like this is one area where we can actually say ego does ruin things because sometimes it is hard for some people to admit that dude is way better at this than I am. So I just have to accept that, but I don't see what the problem is.

Speaker 3 (20:26):

And honestly, something that I also took on a mentality that I took on pretty early on is a lot of people, when they find somebody that's very obviously better than them at something, they kind of do a sort of shutout thing. They get threatened and they're like, oh, whatever it is, denial this and that. They're like, oh yeah, they just don't want to work with this person. Or they try to tear down this person. But I always, it's like, dude, you have to take it as an opportunity to learn because the only reason I'm good at any of the things that I'm good at is because I met somebody who was way better at them at one point in my life. And my immediate reaction was like, okay, cool. You do your thing. I'm going to watch every single movie you do, and I'm going to ask you every question about it rather than have an ego because how the hell am I going to get any better? How am I advance at all if I just pretend like I'm good at this? It's like I can always, always be better. And even if it's something that I'm super confident in it, somebody really, really shows me up, obviously I'm going to be like, damn, I'm going to have my feelings hurt for a second. But then right after that it's like, cool, how did you do that? Show me everything.

Speaker 2 (21:36):

Well, I think that's important to note. Getting your feelings hurt for a second is almost an involuntary thing. You can't control it always. The thing is you can control how you react to it. I mean, in music especially, people are sensitive and I feel like in a lot of lines of work, people don't define their personalities by their work. They don't have that attachment. Someone who's an accountant might not judge his self-worth on how well he calculated numbers that day, right? I mean, I'm sure there are some guys who do, but I was just throwing that out as an example. Not every line of work, there's that personal connection, but in music, audio, entertainment, creative fields, people who do this stuff, that's their identity. Like it or not, for better or for worse, it is what it is. And so getting offended or getting your feelings hurt when someone shows you up is a natural involuntary thing. It happens, but we can control whether we act bitches about it. Yeah, exactly. I think the dudes who can handle it, thick skinned individuals tend to stick around longer in my experience. So when you're writing with people, I'm guessing then that if you're just writing, you divorce yourself from the role of audio engineer.

(23:07):

If that's not your job, you just totally just distance yourself from that, or is it always there?

Speaker 3 (23:12):

In this day and age, since just this style of music and production that I do, it seems like a lot of people, I don't know, it always just seems like you get farther if you can do everything. So I always find myself, it's like, well, who's going to mix it? It's like, well, I mean, I guess I can mix, so I guess I'll mix it. It's like, well, who's going to track the vocals? You see what I'm saying? I can do it. Yeah, exactly. So back in the old days, it was like, okay, and then it's still in the rock a band day, but when it's just an artist and a beat maker, it's like back in the old days you'd be like, all right, cool. We need a vocal engineer, then we need a mixing engineer and a mastering engineer. But these artists coming out now have these managers and no budgets, and they'd rather just put their artists in with one dude that can just do it all, even if it's not perfect at first. So I always find myself assuming every single role in the whole process.

Speaker 2 (24:12):

Well, I think you're seeing that in at least metal too, where mixing engineers now regularly master their own stuff, and producers now regularly write and play almost everything for the bands they record. I feel like there's a big parallel right there, and I feel like you coming from issues probably you didn't experience that quite as much. You guys can actually play your shit and write your shit. But I feel like that whole thing where the producer is a part of everything is becoming more and more how metal and heavy productions are done. And also a lot of it has to do with budget. People just don't want spring the extra 1500 or two grand for an outside mastering engineer. They just won't do it sometimes. So you got to know how to do it. Sadly, I always like getting an outside mastering engineer. I prefer it. So on the writing front, how often do you write and do you get around, I guess, repeating yourself for sounding stale, and what are your methods for that? Are you one of those dudes who's up at nine every morning and writing by 10 to two? Those guys that are for the first part of my day, no matter what's going on in my life, I'm going to write for three or four hours and then fucking coke and hookers the rest

Speaker 3 (25:39):

Of the day. Yeah, yeah. I'm not that calculated, but yeah, actually my main thing is that is a struggle for anybody who writes, it's just getting stale and falling into habit, things like that. There's a few methods that I have, but the main method is just switching it up, whatever it is, whatever that means is switching it up, how you create, where you create, what time you create, who you create with anything. If it can be changed, change it. Just try a different way and you'll get to, at least for me, you'll get to a different destination. And also is learning.

(26:17):

Sometimes I'll just learn a new song, a new progression, and that'll open my eyes up to some new harmony. I'll make a new sound, a new synth patch, and just the sound will inspire me. And then the third thing I do is just listen. I'm so about listening to music and trying to find new music, and I have such a big wide range of things that I like and phases that I've gone through. You know what I'm saying? I've been through a huge acoustic folk phase, love underground hip hop. I went through a super big death metal and hardcore phase, and just going through all these things has just kind of widened my palette more and more. Every new band that I like or artist that I like, and then I just try to just soak it in. And usually when I get down to the nitty gritty, something new comes out of me that I didn't know was there.

Speaker 2 (27:14):

Absolutely. I echo the learning something new. I find that it's not just with writing music. If I'm trying to come up with something for business even, or mixing, I feel like I'm getting stale with mixing. I feel like just learning something new, it's not that the thing that I learned right then and there is going to immediately affect what I'm doing in that say I learned a new technique. That technique might not make it onto whatever I'm working on later that day or the next day. It's just that something triggers in the brain that restarts the creativity. Or I've heard a lot of people say that creativity is kind of like willpower and that it's a depreciating asset and you need to renew it through sleep and through new information. So you only get X amount per day or per period of time, and you have to actively let it regenerate. So I find that by learning something somehow that kind of just rocket boosts it for me.

Speaker 3 (28:26):

Absolutely. That's the craziest. Yeah, what you just said, that's pretty crazy. I'm thinking about it. It

Speaker 2 (28:31):

Makes sense though, right?

Speaker 3 (28:32):

Yeah, yeah. Totally. Totally, totally. Does.

Speaker 2 (28:35):

You know that point where you're writing something or you're just doing something creative and you're feeling it into it, it's like time disappears, you're going for it and then it's done. It's over like's just brain not functioning anymore.

Speaker 3 (28:54):

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (28:56):

So when you get to that point, what do you do? Do you stop or do you try to push through?

Speaker 3 (29:01):

It depends. I always feel like forcing something is bad and it can lead to the results that you're not really stoked on, but sometimes I just need a break. Sometimes if I feel like, no, no, I can't figure this out, I'll power through it. But I guess it just really depends on the situation. I think that especially when you're on a time crunch and you're trying to get something done, it's always good to try to push through. But if you just got to be real with yourself, if it's just not coming, then it's like move on. But if you still feel energized, a lot of times it's like, okay, I just can't work on this idea. Sometimes I'll move to a different idea. And a lot of times ideas just need space. They need either a night or a day to come back and that'll help. But yeah, I guess it just all depends. I

Speaker 2 (29:56):

Feel like I encounter this one tracking drummers a lot, for instance, because you're dealing with how focused they can be, but also how tired they are. And I've noticed that when I'm tracking a drummer that when they get to this point where they're not nailing something and they've gotten past their peak physically, typically they're a good drummer or a pro drummer, they're going to want to keep going because the same mentality that makes them a good drummer is what includes not quitting. So it's like you're dealing with a personality type who has it ingrained that they will not quit like a soldier or something. So they'll go till five in the morning if you tell them to just keep going. But that doesn't mean the takes are going to get better. In fact, they're probably just going to get worse and worse and worse. So typically when I get to that point with other people, I'll cut the session off and not push through, because typically I've noticed that one night of sleep and you can handle that thing that was taking you four hours in 15 minutes when someone's fresh. So I dunno, I kind of feel like work smarter, not harder is a pretty smart thing to do with music. That's

Speaker 3 (31:11):

Definitely something I had to learn. I didn't have that at all before. I was just like, no, you must. I must.

Speaker 2 (31:18):

That's interesting. And I've had arguments with people about this because I also had that when I was younger, the not stopping and everybody great, I know when they were younger had periods of 12 to 16 hours a day every single day, not stopping. And then as they get older, they wisen up and work when they're feeling it really, really hard and develop techniques to be able to feel it when they're not feeling it and all that. But they typically don't redline themselves. But since everybody great tends to have that in common, that at some point they did do the 12 to 16 hours a day, maybe that's part of what it takes to get great. Maybe if they had developed this more moderate approach younger in life, they wouldn't become great. I don't know. What do you think?

Speaker 3 (32:06):

Yeah, I think there's some truth to that. I think getting, I guess if I was to think about it, it would be just getting your, I guess, skill set down. That's the really heavy lifting is those long days, those super, super focused, those I feel like I always think of a jazz player, a saxophone player, you know what I'm saying? He has to run those techniques hundreds of thousands of thousands of times so that when he's creating something now all he has to do is feel it and his fingers just go, you know what I'm saying? He doesn't have to like, oh, okay, and then wait, how do you do a B flat? It's like literally it goes. But at that point in his life is when he can take his time. And that point is when he can be moderate because he's already got just I guess the technical side down, I guess. And it's not to say literally technical because sometimes it's just getting a skill of, like you said, having techniques of feeling it when you're not feeling it, this and that, whatever. It's just, I guess those days and that period is kind of removing all the challenges that'll stand in the way of your creativity, I guess, later in life. So maybe there is some truth to that.

Speaker 2 (33:21):

I remember that I was reading an interview with John Petru in the nineties. I was reading an interview with him, and he said that him and their bassist, I think they went to the same high school or something like that, that they had a pact that each of them would go home and practice six hours a day. And so that way, if they saw each other hanging out later with friends, they knew that if they saw the other guy there that he had already done his six hours and they held themselves to that. And six hours a day is a lot. I mean, I know that some guys are like, you got to do 12, but six highly focused hours over the period of years. You can become the best in the world that way. But I feel like they probably don't practice six hours a day now. Probably not. And that's made possible by those years of being brutal. So I feel like you got to do it when you're young.

(34:21):

If you're in high school and you want to get good at music and you want to do music for a career, stay away from drugs and start practicing now. Because when you get into your twenties, you're not going to feel the same way about it. Life changes, things change no matter what. And by the time you're in your thirties, it's over. If you already did the work and you're awesome, then it's not over. But as far as just having your life set up in a way that you could do six hours a day, which is what it takes, it's probably over, unless you sold some startup at 25 and have 20 million in the bank and you can do whatever. But then, okay, sure. There's always exceptions. And I don't want to discourage our older listeners or anything like that. I mean, there's plenty of examples of people who have done great things at any age, but I'm just speaking from environmental factors when you're in high school or early college, those are the years in your life where typically you have the least amount of shit going on that matters. I mean, you have a social life, but I mean, it's not like you have to pay rent, hopefully.

Speaker 3 (35:35):

Right, right. Exactly. And one thing that was a big slap in the face for me also was especially when you get to 25, when you get to 26, you're going to meet hundreds of people that spent the time that you didn't practicing there. So all of a sudden, you're going to find yourself in a huge community of people that are insanely better than you if you didn't practice. You know what I'm saying? And that's something I guess I didn't realize. I mean, I've tried my hand in many, many things and many different instruments and this and that. And when I got to that point, I was like, wow, this thing that I didn't really, really focus on, these people did, and I can't believe how good they are already.

Speaker 2 (36:16):

I was very, very fortunate growing up because my dad's a symphony conductor and he's pretty well known. And so he was always doing concerts with some of the best soloists in the world. And so oftentimes they'd come to the house just to practice on his piano or they'd come over to rehearse. And so I just kind of grew up around these great musicians and they pounded that into my head from the time I was young that if you don't do this now, you're going to be 19. And motherfuckers that did do it are going to pass you. So don't be a loser. Practice, practice, practice. And I'm really, really glad that that happened. So production is, in my opinion, bigger than it's ever been. It's different in that it's not, it's not a big studio thing. It used to be. I mean, they still exist, but as we know, their numbers are dwindling, but production for the quote common person is now bigger than ever, and it's only growing. And in that you do have some market saturation, but in my opinion, even though there's market saturation, there's plenty of opportunity for people to develop a career. Do you have any advice for people starting out on how to go about developing a production career and actually standing out?

Speaker 3 (37:42):

Yeah, I guess for me it was something where I had to figure out, I guess back to the strengths, just kind of figure out in this big world of production, because it's so wide right now that I really excelled at and what I wanted to do. And a lot of ways I'm still figuring it out, but because there's everything from recording bands to creating jingles to making hip hop beats, and this all falls under an umbrella, but they're all, I guess focused things. I guess it really just depends on the focus that you choose and that you're passionate about and whatever that is. And it may change just to, I guess, just get your feet wet and start any way you can. I think when I was first doing this, I guess not when I was first first doing it, but when I was getting more into metal and recording bands and stuff, I started doing a recording service out of my garage, and I used to record bands for $50 a song, which I'm sure all of us producers have done at some point.

(38:57):

And even though it was small bands and this and that, I can't tell you how much I learned in those years and how much better it made me. And it was just because they were just kids in a band and I was just a kid with a computer, and it was like we were both learning, I guess. And that blossomed into a bunch of other things, I guess. And that was, I guess what built my skillset. And I think back to what we were talking about earlier, if the combination of that building relationships one week, it's this band in two years, it's a band, it's your first band on a label, and you smash that out of the park, and then another band asks you, it's literally just a combination, I guess, of just building that skillset and correctly building those relationships. And if it calls for it, if it's not a band thing, if you're trying to make beats and things like that, if it calls for it, it's also a combination of your location just being where the work is. And for me, it was LA because LA is a place where nobody can get an internship and claw his way to a publishing deal like I did in six years. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (40:09):

I like that you say claw. Well, the reason I'm glad you said that is because people look at the end result, right? They look at you and you're already there. And if they weren't there for the struggle, then sometimes it's hard for them to understand what you did to get there and what it actually takes. And it is important for people to know that in general, your success stories in music aren't like the Pearl Jam story where they got signed to a huge deal within six months of being a band and then became the biggest band in the world. And I'm sure there's a lot more to the story than that. They had a previous band, the singer died. There's a whole backstory, but still those winning the lottery stories, I mean, they're like winning the lottery. It just, someone wins the lottery, but it's probably not going to be you.

Speaker 3 (41:05):

Yeah. It's just not linear it not linear line. You're going to have ups and downs, things and that. I've met so many people that were signed to huge deals for a year, then dropped, and then they've reinvented themselves and they came back as something else even bigger. It's like, it's literally just something, like I said before, it's kind of just getting in where you fit in and just taking every opportunity and setback and realizing how to reposition and just kind of move forward. I guess.

Speaker 2 (41:34):

I call it pivoting. I'm on my third career right now and in music, and this one's bigger than the other two were, the first one was a sign band on the Roadrunner that was cool while it lasted. Then it was producing and engineering and assisting on pretty big metal records. And that was cool. And now it's this whole entrepreneurial online thing that I've been doing, and it's bigger than the other two put together, and it's taken a lot of ups and downs figuring out where I fit in, what I'm good at, what people appreciate for me, what I'm passionate about, and what I'm willing to devote my time to, and redefining myself every step of the way. And I see that in a lot of other people who have done well. It is like you said, maybe band one didn't work out for them or the first record deal.

(42:26):

That doesn't mean they have to quit. That just means they have to figure out where they fit in. There's a lot of factors outside of your control. For instance, if you're an artist and you get that big deal and you have a hit even maybe you're that fortunate, maybe that's all you got because your style of music only jived with the collective consciousness for that period of time. And that's not to say that you're not a good artist or something. You can't control what the outside world thinks. Or if you're a producer who helps us, you're in a trend. In heavy music, for instance, taking it back to what our audience is into, and you produce some bands that change the scene, maybe your snare sound becomes the thing that all the bands want, but the crowd decides they don't like it after two years. It doesn't mean you're not a good producer or mixer, it just means that people, society changed what they were into. And you can either cry about it or you can redefine yourself and keep moving. So we've got some questions here from our crowd for you, if you don't mind answering a few of them. Yeah, not at all. Cool. So here's one from Sean Dorian. He said, what was the production process like on Headspace? How do you know when enough is enough when adding elements to a song?

Speaker 3 (43:45):

Yeah, so I guess that is the biggest challenge, and I guess the biggest learning curve that issues has been as a band. And I started learning from the first record to now, and I'll continue to learn. But yeah, I guess, and there are songs, there are times where I sent stems to Chris and I got the mix back and I was like, yo, mute A, B, and C, because it just distracts, you know what I'm saying? I guess what I'm always listening for is what's the point of the part and what am I supposed to be listening to? What am I supposed to be focusing on? And is whatever I've added or whoever's added, augmenting this part or distracting from this part? And if it's the latter, then it doesn't need to be there. And I found that a big thing is not getting attached to anything, parts, sections, lines. If it's diminishing the song, just let it go. Because at the end of the day, that's the most important thing, is the song. Good.

Speaker 2 (44:53):

I completely agree. So Jake Booth is asking, it's often said that before beginning any creative project, there should be a vision in mind at the end product. Can you describe for us what the vision might consist of in your mind? For example, does it consist of feelings, emotions, or maybe more technical things such as melodies and rhythms?

Speaker 3 (45:11):

Yeah, so I guess I visualize vision and things like that differently in different projects, and specifically with the issue stuff. When we first started, I guess my vision for the band, and this was kind of decided with AJ and Tyler, because we were kind of the three that started the sound was, I guess it was pretty technical. It was just like, so we're going to be a metal core band, so we're going to have heavy parts, melodic parts and choruses. So it's like, okay, the chorus have to be all the way catchy and legitimately good pop courses. The melodic parts should come from bands that I think do melodic parts well and creatively. And at that time we were listening to a lot of melodic card chorus. So it was like TGI, Gideon, a Dalia, things like that. And the heavy parts. I just wanted to be groovy. I was listening to a lot of six periphery, MASU, Gideon, also super groovy band. And I guess I was just like, okay, how can we bastardize these three elements into a band and make every single, I guess element of those things legitimate, not like, oh yeah, this is kind of like a heavy part. No, this is going to be a legitimately heavy part, and this course is going to be legitimately amazing. You know what I'm saying? Mission

Speaker 2 (46:30):

Accomplished.

Speaker 3 (46:31):

Oh, thank you.

Speaker 2 (46:31):

Yeah, for sure. I mean, that was the first thing that I noticed was when I heard it, that the legitimacy is why I was like, all right, Finn, I think you're right about this band. And it's not the genre I listened to, but you can spot authentic no matter what you listen to, you can spot authentic. It was like, it's not some band who listens to pop trying to do heavy and failing or some band that's all heavy trying to do clean and failing. This is actually the right on for every direction it goes.

Speaker 3 (47:09):

I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (47:09):

So Andy Sanchez is asking, going off of the previous question, do you find yourself writing songs just to write them, such as finding random melodies and whatnot, or do you have an idea then work off that?

Speaker 3 (47:24):

So yeah, I guess sometimes we'll start with kind of a straight idea, like, oh, what if we did this type of thing? And then other times something will just inspire us and it'll blossom into something and we don't know where it's going, but it is just blossoming. But yeah, so for example, for examples of that is the Realist is the first single from Headspace and has kind of some funky chords and things like that. And that was all inspired from a Guthrie Govin video that I saw after I discovered who he was at Nam. I know I'm late, but this past No,

Speaker 2 (48:02):

He's good. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (48:03):

He's amazing. So two years ago, not this last Nam, but the one before that, I didn't know who he was, but I saw him walking around at Nam and everyone talking about him, whatever. So I looked him up, saw an amazing video that night, worked out this riff. I'm not a good guitar player, but I can edit. So I worked out this riff, showed it to my brother, my brother can actually play guitar. He made it into another riff or he flushed it out, I guess. And then we were just like, oh, what if this was just a funk metal song? And it created that sound, and we kind of went to the finish line with that idea. It all came from this random inspiration. And then other times, there's a song, Princeton Ave. On our first record, I was literally sitting in church with my mom and this breakdown came into my head and I just was doing this. And then as soon as I left church, I went home and started it. And I didn't know where Princeton Ave was going. And at the end it was just this weird bastardization of heavy and Drake stuff. I don't know, it was weird.

Speaker 2 (49:06):

So Seth Bunsen is asking why he's so cute.

Speaker 3 (49:10):

Tell Seth I was born like this.

Speaker 2 (49:13):

Yeah, it's no work required. So Clark Jones is asking, what does your songwriting process look like? I guess that's a pretty broad question.

Speaker 3 (49:23):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:23):

Yeah. I wish he could have been a little bit more general. I mean, not a little bit less general, sorry.

Speaker 3 (49:30):

It is different. I keep saying, and kind of like the trend I guess I'm saying is every single time I write something I try to do it differently.

Speaker 2 (49:37):

And I feel like you've given enough insights into different ways that you write where that question is pretty much answered. Alright, Alex Kane is asking, what are your top three plugins? Top three, that's

Speaker 3 (49:50):

It. Let's see. Top three plugins. Okay, first one is serum. I think it's an amazing synthesizer and super powerful sounding, and I really like analog sounding stuff. So serum is, in my opinion, the best analog, the most analog. I can get something sounding. So I love Serum. Also, I'm trying to think what else I use all the time. Oh, transient Master by Native Instruments, use that on drums on pretty much every single,

Speaker 2 (50:26):

Is that a multi-band one?

Speaker 3 (50:28):

No, it's literally just like two knobs. It looks just like the SPL one, but it's made by Native instruments.

Speaker 2 (50:35):

I'm going to send you a multi-band one that we make at JST if you have never used this called Transit Line. Oh yeah. It is the same type of thing except multi band,

Speaker 3 (50:46):

Dude, that sounds sick. I would love to try that. I collect these. I have the Trans Mod, the SPL, trans Designer, the Transient, I got

Speaker 2 (50:54):

Dude, transient designers are so cool.

Speaker 3 (50:56):

Yeah, dude. So definitely one of my favorites there. The last one is the Pro L. I just love the Pro Owl favorite limiter.

Speaker 2 (51:04):

Dude, I feel like Fab Filter plugins look like a nice spot. They're so relaxing. You look at,

Speaker 3 (51:11):

Especially the eq.

Speaker 2 (51:13):

Yeah, it's just, you can just look at it all day. It just looks great. So sounds great too. But so Josh Ballard said, how is Headspace so perfect. And on a serious note, how does he determine what elements to add to songs to give them that issues flavor?

Speaker 3 (51:29):

It's a tough one. Yeah, man, it's really tough. I mean, me personally, my job as far as, well, not my only job, but I guess when I was a member of the band, my role as my instrument, I guess was the production and syns and stuff. And that's always really, really hard because I spend so much time in the trenches with AJ and Skye writing the songs and crafting every single part that when it's done, I'm just like, I already like it. It's like, well, what the hell should I add onto it? But I guess I just always try to do things that, like I said earlier, just augment each part and augment the feeling. And obviously my flavor comes from old school soul and stuff, and I really like Gap Band, so those types of scents and Dr. Dre stuff, and I just super soulful, synths and stuff. So I guess that shines through. But I always try to make it augment every single part, and it just comes out sounding like issues when all of us, I guess, are involved in it.

Speaker 2 (52:31):

I feel like that's something that needs to be noted about when you like a band and you like their style. Oftentimes their style isn't something that the artist needs to think about because it's them. It's their own. That's why that person is in the band and that's why you like it. It's because you like their unique take on music. So it is not like George Harrison had to think about what George Harrison leads are supposed to sound like. Right. Or at least I don't think that's how

Speaker 3 (53:03):

It works. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (53:04):

I mean, I don't think that Paul McCartney sat there thinking about, well, this baseline should be more Paul McCartney. Maybe now he does. I don't know. But I feel like what makes an artist great, or part of what makes an artist great, or part of what draws people to them is their unique take on their heart. So it's not really a choice.

Speaker 3 (53:27):

Yeah, exactly. And I think when people start bands and do bands is to just run as far away as you can from being a clone. Don't ever clone a band already that band, and they do it better than you. Unfortunately, you don't know how, I can't describe how badly I want to be in Shuga. I want to be in Shuga. So

Speaker 2 (53:52):

That's exactly who I was just

Speaker 3 (53:54):

Thinking, I want to be in Shuga so bad, but I just will never be, I'll never be shuga

Speaker 2 (54:00):

You and so many other people too. It's just they come on and it's like, yeah, they're the best dude. Absolutely. There is nobody better. Yeah, it's crazy to me how much better they are than their imitators, though. There are bands who have taken the influence and done other things that are really cool, but I'm a huge corn fan, and not just the first album. A lot of people say, I'm just a huge corn fan for, I feel like they've been, even if they're later albums aren't as good from start to finish, there's still great songs from every era. And it's the same sort of thing. It's like you think about all the bands that tried to be corn but didn't even come close. It's just you'll never be that. So why don't you try to, don't you be sitting on. Exactly. Yeah, because corn already got the market cornered on the horn theme. So Ty, thank you so much for coming on. It's great talking to you. Really, really appreciate it. And thanks for sharing and being so open. I know that the listeners will love this one.

Speaker 3 (55:17):

Sick dude, it's my pleasure. I hope anybody listening enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (55:21):

Yeah, hope so too. I know they will, so I'm not even worried about it. So thanks again, dude. The Unstoppable Recording

Speaker 1 (55:28):

Machine podcast is brought to you by Drum Forge. Drum Forge is a forward-thinking developer of audio tools and software for musicians and producers alike. Founded on the idea that great drum sounds should be obtainable for everyone, we focus on your originality, drum forge. It's your sound. Go to drum forge.com for more info to ask us questions, make suggestions and interact. Visit nail the mix.com/podcast and subscribe today.