TREY XAVIER: Running Gear Gods, the ultimate overdrive shootout, and music theory for metal

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by the 2017 URM Summit, a once in a lifetime chance to spend four days with the next generation of audio professionals and special guests, including Andrew Wade, Kane Churko, Billy Decker, fluff, Brian Hood, and many more. The inspiration, ideas and friendship you'll get here are the things that you'll look back on as inflection points in your life. Learn [email protected]. The URM podcast is also brought to you by heirloom microphones. Heirloom microphones are high-end condenser microphones with something that has never been seen in the microphone industry, a triangular membrane with our patented membranes and our tailored phase linear electronics. Your recording and live experience will never be the same heirloom. Our microphones will help you discover clarity. Go to E-H-R-L-U-N-D SE for more info. And now your host, Joel Wanasek and Eyal

Speaker 2 (00:01:04):

Levi. Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast. I'm Eyal Levi with Joel Wanasek. Joey is out on vacation on some yacht, somewhere with Leonardo DiCaprio. Leonardo DiCaprio, Leonardo DiCaprio and him are partying. And we've got Trey Xavier from Gear Gods here as a guest. What's up? What's up? Hello, Trey.

Speaker 3 (00:01:26):

Hey guys. What's cracking?

Speaker 2 (00:01:27):

They're on your yacht, right?

Speaker 3 (00:01:28):

Yes. It's a six 60 footer. What's a good number? I don't know.

Speaker 4 (00:01:35):

Just the higher the better. Your yacht has to have a yacht. That's all that matters. Like the Russian oligarchs just be like, I have a yacht with a yacht in it. I don't even know how big it is because it's the size of a football field.

Speaker 3 (00:01:45):

They have a 7,500 foot yacht, and in the pool in the yacht is a smaller yacht.

Speaker 2 (00:01:49):

Actually, have you seen the pictures of the yachts that have the boat inside of them?

Speaker 4 (00:01:55):

No. Yes, they're amazing.

Speaker 2 (00:01:57):

Yeah. So what you were just saying is actually a real thing.

Speaker 4 (00:02:00):

Holy crap. Yeah. Has that.

Speaker 2 (00:02:02):

Yeah, it's pretty great. Now, I believe that 60 foot is the minimum length for a yacht. I could be wrong, it could be 60, but I believe that in order for a boat to qualify as a yacht, it has to be 60 or more. So actually

Speaker 4 (00:02:16):

Basically small time.

Speaker 2 (00:02:17):

Yeah, 60 foot I think is a small time yacht. I think you've got to be talking 150 foot to

Speaker 4 (00:02:24):

Dang

Speaker 2 (00:02:25):

Be bawling. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:02:26):

Titanic or GTFO.

Speaker 3 (00:02:27):

I'll put it this way, I pretty much max out at a canoe. I mean, I know how to pilot a canoe and that's, what's that, a 10 foot? It's like a micro yacht. That's how I like to think of it.

Speaker 2 (00:02:42):

Upgrade it from a kayak.

Speaker 3 (00:02:44):

Yes.

Speaker 2 (00:02:44):

Alright. That's pretty cool. I

Speaker 3 (00:02:46):

Think it's more like kayaks and canoes are the sharks and the jets of the small boat world. So it's your one or the other. And then if you see someone in one of the other ones, you have to have a knife fight, which is really awkward on the water.

Speaker 2 (00:03:01):

So speaking of knife fights, do you and Alex ever knife fight?

Speaker 3 (00:03:06):

We come pretty close sometimes we're roommates, so it's like, what is it? They say familiarity breeds contempt,

Speaker 2 (00:03:15):

Which

Speaker 3 (00:03:15):

Is not true. I mean, we don't hate each other by any stretch. It's like brother fighting, which is also weird because his actual brother lives here too. So I'm kind of like,

Speaker 2 (00:03:26):

Maybe you need to get rid of that guy. If anybody listening, yeah, we'll kill or Adam, if everyone listening is wondering, Alex that we're referring to is Alex Nala, our subscriber and also writer video guy for Gear gods.net

Speaker 3 (00:03:42):

And yeah, he's our pro audio reviewer as well. Pro audio and keyboard reviewer.

Speaker 4 (00:03:47):

Now, we've already established this though on prior podcasts, so I should say that Alex is actually on Omnipotent in is Everywhere because he somehow won the contest. He got the mixed CRI in this, and it was all by a random occurrence and it was crazy. We were like, what the hell? Why is Alex just everywhere? You can't avoid Alex. He's just there.

Speaker 2 (00:04:06):

Oh, that's true. He was also at my creative live in California.

Speaker 4 (00:04:11):

He was in Nam.

Speaker 2 (00:04:12):

Yep. He's just everywhere. He's under my bed right now. Just waiting

Speaker 3 (00:04:18):

For that moment.

Speaker 2 (00:04:19):

Yeah. So what month was it that we created his mix? We created his mix that because it was, well, first of all, I'm just going to say that we didn't know it was him. We didn't know that it was a member of your posse that

Speaker 3 (00:04:34):

We were, it would've been meaner if we knew though. Yeah. He's my partner in crime too,

Speaker 2 (00:04:40):

In general. We didn't even know. We just

Speaker 3 (00:04:42):

Serial collaborator.

Speaker 2 (00:04:44):

Well, he likes harps accord. He

Speaker 4 (00:04:45):

Does, yeah. He plays in a fucking power metal band. Are you going to let him get away with that shit? Like 2001 call? Dude, come

Speaker 3 (00:04:52):

On. Oh, he plays in the same power metal band that I'm in.

Speaker 4 (00:04:57):

Yeah, but it's cool when you're in it, but when he's in it, it isn't as cool.

Speaker 2 (00:05:02):

Did you guys give the harpsichord back to 2001 or, I don't know, man, who won that battle?

Speaker 3 (00:05:10):

Try and talk him out of his keyboard sounds. He does get the best. Okay, so he gets the best keyboard sounds I've ever heard, but then he turns louder than you've heard. Way too fucking loud in his mixes. And because he's the, he just got to hire me to mix your shit and it'll sound better. Yeah, exactly. He mixes all of my stuff for my demos, which is blessedly, usually keyboard free. I mean, I fucking love keyboards when I write music. I put keyboards in all over the place. But that's like, you can't give the, that's giving the kid the keys to the candy store. It's just out of control.

Speaker 2 (00:05:52):

Yeah. Keyboard players. There's two instrumentalists who should never mix anything. And one is, well, I don't want to call 'em an instrumentalist. So there's two types of musicians who should never mix anything. And one is a vocalist. Yes. Not an instrumentalist. It's a vocalist. So one is a vocalist and the other is a keyboard player because they always will make their shit way too loud, way louder than they ever need to be. So just my observations,

Speaker 4 (00:06:23):

Especially if they play in a power metal band, man. Because I remember one particular metal fest I played back in like oh, 2004 or five in Minnesota, and there was a prominent power metal band, and I don't want to say names even though I should because the guy was kind of a nevermind, but the vocalist sat there, they were headlining, and he literally sat there for 50 minutes, like, check 1, 2, 3, check, check. Can I get a little bit more eight K in my monitor? Oh my gosh. Check, check, check. Just a little bit more. Eight K, it's not enough check. Sybil. Sybil. And we're like, dude, can you just fuck off and play? You're pissing us off. And by the time this dickhead was done, sound checking and being a Hollywood asshole, there was us, we were playing there in my band and five other dudes there, and everybody had cleared out hundreds of people. He sat there for 45 minutes and publicly mic checked in front of a whole group of people to make sure he had the perfect vocal monitor mix so all eight people could hear him watch one song and then leave because he sucked. That is

Speaker 2 (00:07:23):

Rough. And you're not going to tell us who it was.

Speaker 4 (00:07:24):

Well, no, no, no, I'm definitely not. But then again, he probably isn't doing anything in this industry anymore, so it doesn't matter. I just want to be nice even though I don't like him as a person.

Speaker 2 (00:07:34):

Okay, fair enough. So you're a guitar player, Trey, right?

Speaker 4 (00:07:38):

That is a fact. Now hold on, I need to know something. What's up, Trey? When you play guitar in that power metal band, you put your foot on a rock when you solo and look downward at the camera,

Speaker 3 (00:07:50):

I try to avoid cliches as often as possible, but luckily so far I've not had a camera on me in that situation, so I'll let you know.

Speaker 2 (00:08:00):

Okay. Because the only way, what about standing on top of a piano on a mountain?

Speaker 3 (00:08:05):

If I could get a piano on top of a mountain that I would for sure do

Speaker 4 (00:08:09):

You need to be in a black metal band to get a mountain first?

Speaker 3 (00:08:11):

And I would look right down into the camera and point while snarling and soloing with one hand.

Speaker 2 (00:08:20):

I think that's a great idea. So I want to talk about your John Petru shoe video.

Speaker 3 (00:08:27):

I would love to talk about that. Have I seen this? There's so much to say.

Speaker 2 (00:08:30):

If you haven't seen it, you should see it. It's like a take on an old classic, but it's like a really, really good take on an old classic. Do you remember the John Petru she videos from 10 years ago where he's like, it's not John Patricia shreds, but it's something like

Speaker 3 (00:08:50):

They're called Psycho exercises.

Speaker 2 (00:08:51):

Yeah. And they'll kill you.

Speaker 3 (00:08:54):

It's like somebody just did a voiceover of him saying ridiculous shit. Like this knob here controls the rotation of the sun.

Speaker 2 (00:09:04):

Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:09:05):

Yeah. So I did a parody of that,

Speaker 2 (00:09:07):

But it was actually really, really good and went viral. And I was wondering, was that you playing guitar in it?

Speaker 3 (00:09:15):

Oh yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:09:16):

That's what I thought. That's what I thought.

Speaker 3 (00:09:18):

The reason that if you were a little bit confused, it's possible that that's because I got the actual track backing track to play over. So there's this app called Jam It that's actually pretty incredible. And you can download, it's like $5 a song and you download basically almost like the Guitar Hero tracks. You know how they have the separate parts like stems and it's the actual tracks. So you can turn down the lead guitar and record a cover with the actual tracks from the master recording. So that's why it sounded almost exactly the same except for the lead guitar.

Speaker 2 (00:09:59):

It sounded great though I couldn't at first. I wasn't sure if it was you or not. I thought it might've been him. It sounded really, really good.

Speaker 3 (00:10:10):

Damn son. Damn, that's high praise.

Speaker 2 (00:10:13):

No, it's true though.

Speaker 3 (00:10:15):

Now I need to see this video.

Speaker 2 (00:10:16):

Yeah, you do need to see the video.

Speaker 3 (00:10:19):

Why don't we take a two minute break while Joel watches some of the video? I got to take a piss. Alright,

Speaker 2 (00:10:23):

Well

Speaker 3 (00:10:24):

That was entertaining. Yeah, I think that humor is very, very important in not being a joyless dick. Agreed. I feel like that's part of what separates Gear Gods from like Premier Guitar or I dunno, some website that does what we do kind of better in the technical department or something. But I think people come to us for that kind of goofy shit. There's probably a much more thorough review of that pedal on somebody else's channel, but it's probably not nearly as much fun to watch.

Speaker 2 (00:11:06):

But you know what? I wouldn't have the patience to sit there and watch a thorough review of a piece of gear besides, there's nothing more thorough than trying out the gear yourself. So I feel like what you did is probably more effective. Anyways. I actually watched the whole video.

Speaker 4 (00:11:22):

Right? Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, I appreciate a little bit of humor because I don't know, everything is so serious all the time and being in music. Well, maybe it's just years of being a producer has jaded me and it's like you come up with a song and then you've got 4,000 hate comments and 20,000 like comments and you got to deal with all that shit because everybody's a fucking armchair producer and they all think they can produce the song. They all think they can mix the song and they all think they know what the band's direction should be and they might as well just all join the band because everybody's a pro. So being used to dealing with that kind of shit where everything is taken so seriously, I've always really enjoyed producing bands that are kind of a joke. It's not serious at all, and we do it intentionally to get hate and just stupidity. So I appreciate that kind of stuff. I feel like it's fun. You can't take yourself too seriously and I don't think anybody should. So definitely not. I think that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (00:12:18):

Well, John Petru agreed, right?

Speaker 3 (00:12:21):

Yeah. That was a massive bucket list item for me, just for him to acknowledge even that I exist. I so I playing one of his guitars in that video. I mean, not his signature model. And I mean, I've been a Dream Theater fan for, I don't know, 15 plus years literally changed the course of my life. I hope to meet him someday so that I can fan girl out really hard and just embarrassed the shit out of him and be like, you changed my life. It literally did. I mean, without what album went, it was scenes from a Memory. I mean, that's their perfect master work as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 4 (00:12:58):

I have that.

Speaker 3 (00:13:00):

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:13:00):

So you guys are dream theater fans. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (00:13:03):

Where I was and until Octa, then I got bored with this man. So

Speaker 2 (00:13:07):

Can you guys tell me something?

Speaker 3 (00:13:08):

Why do you like it?

Speaker 2 (00:13:11):

Well, maybe you can just answer me this. Is there Singer in the mob? Because that's probably the only reason that I can understand that he's still in that band and wasn't kicked out. Are they afraid that the

Speaker 3 (00:13:24):

Canadian mob,

Speaker 2 (00:13:25):

Well, are they afraid that they'll get put in a cement brick and dumped in the river or something if they kick him out?

Speaker 4 (00:13:34):

Let me explain it to you in a way you'll understand. So basically no one's actually listens to him sing when they listen to Dream Theater. They're just waiting for the next sick drum fill or beat or the next guitar lick or the next shredding bass or keyboard part that when he's singing, they're actually not paying attention. So no one actually listens to him sing and no one acknowledges that he's actually even in the band, if we really kind of just sit down and we watch the band. I mean, if you've ever been to a dream theater show live, it's literally like going to zombie land. They all sit there with their hands down and arms crossed with angry looks on their face, waiting for John Pati to miss a note so they can go blog about it and say how better they are than him, which is horseshit not. But I remember one particular dream theater show, and it might've even been the scenes from a memory tour. There was one heavy part in a song. Me and my buddies just kind of started mosh pitting a little bit, and I kind of bumped into my buddy and all of a sudden the guy behind me grabs me and he scolds me. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Dude, this part's metal as fuck. We want throw down and you're telling me I have to sit here and watch the band play peacefully and quietly.

Speaker 2 (00:14:40):

Well, you were at a dream theater show.

Speaker 4 (00:14:43):

I know. I'm just saying them power metal guys, they need to lighten up a little bit and get late. Chill the

Speaker 3 (00:14:48):

Fuck out. Yeah. Yes. I think re is a very hit or miss for me. I think oftentimes more miss than hit, but I mean, yeah, what are you going to do? It's one of my favorite bands with one of my least favorite singers, and I really hope he never listens to this. And here's me say that because that would suck. He'll send you an angry email.

Speaker 2 (00:15:14):

Oh no, he'd send a hit squad. That's the reason I'm convinced that that's the reason.

Speaker 3 (00:15:21):

Yeah. I mean, he gets to get up, go up there every night, and even if he's not that great, then he's sucking in front of 10,000 people that I'm not. So what are you going to do?

Speaker 2 (00:15:34):

Write about

Speaker 3 (00:15:34):

It. Write about it. Yeah, I don't know. I mean,

Speaker 2 (00:15:37):

I think Jared Lido should join.

Speaker 3 (00:15:39):

Yeah, I would pay to see that for sure.

Speaker 2 (00:15:42):

I mean, I didn't think 30 seconds to Mars was that bad and I think he should join.

Speaker 3 (00:15:48):

I think they're cool as shit. I mean, they have such a distinct sound and it's so massive like gargantuan sound.

Speaker 2 (00:15:56):

Are you actually being serious?

Speaker 3 (00:15:57):

Yeah, I thought they sounded great. And I mean, I don't know about him and their music videos are movies.

Speaker 2 (00:16:06):

I actually thought they were a good band. So what's going on in Gear God's Palace?

Speaker 3 (00:16:10):

So many things. So we do everything. I mean, so Gear Gods is meant to be a hub for metal musicians. So the idea is that if you're a metalhead and you play an instrument or you sing, then when you show up on the website, there should be so many things that you can do and look at and learn about more than anything else. I think people come to us for a lot of suggestions on what gear to get so they don't spend a lot of money on the wrong thing, learn how to actually use that gear and then learn stuff about music in general and their favorite artists. So we have Playthroughs interviews, reviews and other things at rhyme, like how-tos, shootouts, that's a big one that people seem to a whole lot

Speaker 2 (00:17:04):

Like gear versus gear.

Speaker 3 (00:17:05):

So one of my favorite shootouts actually far and away, my favorite shootout that we've done has been the massive overdrive pedal shootout where we showed up.

Speaker 2 (00:17:14):

I remember that. I remember that.

Speaker 3 (00:17:15):

Yeah. 25 different overdrive pedals. And the format of it, I think is the most important part. And we utilized it called When You Clickable annotations, so the clickable annotations on screen so that you can click from any one part of the video to any other. So we have a little menu of the pedals on one side, and so you can click on one pedal and hear it and then immediately click to another pedal and hear it in the same context so that you can a b basically from your computer at home so that

Speaker 2 (00:17:55):

That's clever.

Speaker 3 (00:17:56):

There's a billion overdrives on the market. So trying to pick one can be pretty intimidating if you

Speaker 4 (00:18:05):

Could just buy them all

Speaker 3 (00:18:06):

Exactly. And just a quick drop in, a quick three grand and just get 'em all and then recreate our whole thing. That sounds terrible.

Speaker 2 (00:18:18):

Yeah, I mean you still would need to shoot them out.

Speaker 4 (00:18:20):

Now, hold on a second. When you're charging the band to shoot out 400 overdrive pedals and it takes six days to do, but they get the tone that they love,

Speaker 3 (00:18:27):

Oh my

Speaker 4 (00:18:28):

God, you are six days richer. The tone on the record is going to be great. You spent six days getting it and the band feels cool. So for all of our recording friends, there actually is a psychology and a benefit to having a bunch of unnecessary gear that you only need one out of it 800 things because it's cool to play with it because when a band walks in, there's a certain holy shit factor. When you have 22 bands and they're all worth $3,000 or more, they're going to look at that and they're going to be like, damn, dude, I left my line six in the car. You're going to be like, exactly. Let's go play with some maps.

Speaker 3 (00:18:57):

Go get it, dude. We're going to blow all these fucking blondes off the shelf. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:19:02):

Then the kid says he has ax effects and I just tell him to get straight the fuck out of my studio. Harsh.

Speaker 2 (00:19:07):

So what happened with the contest? Who won?

Speaker 3 (00:19:11):

Oh, well I didn't declare a winner though. I mean, the whole idea was just so that people can hear it and choose their own, but as far as I'm concerned, the winner was the VFE ice cream. That's my personal favorite. I think it's far and away the most flexible and best sounding, and they did not pay me to say that. I actually bought one of those pedals. I bought a second one, they sent me one for the shootout, and I was like, this is so good that I need another one in a different color in case you go out of

Speaker 2 (00:19:47):

Business. Yeah, because it sounds different.

Speaker 3 (00:19:50):

Yeah, I mean so many of them were so great and so many of them sounded exactly the same, that it would be kind of hard to actually actively screw up, I think. But for me, the overdrive is sort of a tonal manipulation center or whatever before you get to the amp. So I need a fair amount of control, more controls than just a tone knob. So the ice cream has a high and low cut knob as well as a mid knob that probably boosts your mids, I guess. Does it remove

Speaker 4 (00:20:30):

4K?

Speaker 3 (00:20:31):

No, but that's a feature that I should suggest for whatever revision they're going to do next. The Joel won SEC 4K Killer. Alright,

Speaker 4 (00:20:41):

Now we're talking Des Circulator guitar pedal.

Speaker 3 (00:20:44):

Dator guitar pedal. Hey, why not? I'm sure somebody could do it.

Speaker 2 (00:20:47):

It's actually not a bad idea.

Speaker 3 (00:20:49):

Yeah. So yeah, my other favorite was the Palisades from Earthquaker for basically the same reason in that it has, first of all, it has six different clipping modes and while I don't generally use the internal clipping on an overdrive pedal just to have 'em, you know what I mean? That's like having six different kinds of overdrive pedals in one.

Speaker 2 (00:21:10):

And are these modules that you can swap in and out or is it all built in?

Speaker 3 (00:21:15):

No, it's all built in. It's a knob. Nice.

Speaker 2 (00:21:17):

Oh cool.

Speaker 3 (00:21:18):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:21:18):

Because seen pedals where they have six different clipping or distortion modes where they give you modules that you can physically replace,

Speaker 3 (00:21:28):

That's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (00:21:29):

But I guess it's more future to just have it all internal.

Speaker 3 (00:21:32):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:21:33):

All internal. Get it

Speaker 3 (00:21:34):

Also.

Speaker 2 (00:21:34):

Alright, cool. Sorry, go on

Speaker 3 (00:21:37):

Dirty Bastard.

(00:21:39):

Yeah, so anyway, so that's where I'm literally as of today actively seeking out pedals for doing more of those. So I've done a bunch of the same kind of idea for mini pedals. So I love these little tiny more and Joo and TC Electronics makes little mini pedals, and I wanted to make a mini pedal, fly rig pedal board, something that I could just fit in my bag, my carry-on, and if I were to go play a show in somewhere where they're like, you've got an amp that's back lined, and then you only get to bring your guitar and so you don't have a shitty tone. So I've been doing an ongoing shootout of different types of pedals to put on this board, and the only requirement is that they're mini sized. So the only thing I have left to shoot out is a gate pedal. So I've got a couple of those and then I'll have a full we baby pedal board to take with me to play shows that I never play. I don't play live very often, but the concept is sound.

Speaker 2 (00:22:50):

Joel, do you ever use physical pedals when you're working?

Speaker 4 (00:22:54):

I didn't for a long time. I had a boss DS one originally because when I was 16, Joe Satriani had one. So obviously I had to get one so I could get the same guitar sound. And I think from that, oh no, the first pedal when I was in seventh or eighth grade, I got a metal zone because I mean, dude, it was 92 or 93 and Cannibal Corpse had it and I wanted to be like cannibal corpse and Morbid Angel. So I got the metal zoned except my tone sucked. And so aside from that, I had those for many years. Then when I got my studio and I started engineering, I obviously had to get a tube screamer because I read that Andy Snoop used it and I wanted to be Andy Snoop. And then I got an assistant many years later and he's a total pedal nerd to the point where it's ridiculous.

(00:23:39):

So he knows every guitar record, he's like, on this record, corn used this and ran this into this and on this chorus and this Rob Zombie song, they did this and then doubled the guitar and did 36 takes of this and did this rig into this and then use this guitar with this pickup. I'm like, that's awesome, just plug it in and get me a good tone and I'll come back and hit record. So he made me buy some Ryman pedals. So I got the timeline and a few other really cool ones to do cool effects and stuff like that. Those

Speaker 2 (00:24:05):

Are really good. I've got

Speaker 4 (00:24:06):

One of those. Yeah, they're really amazing. So I really like using them because the digital stuff is cool, but again, I'm a geared dork, so I think there's just a certain sound and a certain tone that the analog stuff has that's just very unique to it. And while the digital stuff is cool and gets the job done, sometimes I like it sexier sibling and I like to ride the Ferrari, so I'm glad I have that stuff because when I need it I'm very happy and it's really flexible and when you get to play through a bunch of cool pedals and things like that, it's really awesome. So I was a shredder. I was too good for pedals when I played guitar. I didn't care. So coming back now, I have all these cool pedals and I still don't use them except when I'm making records. And I would say that I'm glad I have them around and I'm glad I invested in a few really good ones.

Speaker 3 (00:24:49):

It's so much more fun, isn't it?

Speaker 4 (00:24:51):

Yeah, you just turn knobs. Okay. I like doing drone records. I've only done a couple of drone songs. I shouldn't say records, but when I do a lot of weird bands that have nineties influences like Hum and what the hell is that other band Failure and all these and Sono and all this shit. And we'll do noise solos and drone songs and things like that where somebody will come in with a 30 pedal board and we'll just hit the guitar, throw it on the loop pedal and we'll sit and we'll just all turn knobs and come up with a bunch of bullshit and make a song out of it. And that stuff's fun. I really, really, really enjoyed making some of those records and coming up with crazy ass shit. So they're fun. Get some pedals. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:25:32):

Before I did this shootout, honestly, I did not own an overdrive pedal. I used it. I also had a metal zone back in the day. Hell yeah, because I went to my local music store and they were like, this one has the most gain. And I was like stole. But it wasn't until I spent all that time literally going through 25 of them and trying them all out that I really saw the value in having a really good one. And of course, I'm one of those guys that you would tell to get the fuck out because I use an ax effects for a lot of stuff. Yeah, definitely. I just used the overdrive, one of the ones that was just in there and finding that it had more variable controls than a typical tube screamer was pretty cool. And that was kind of when I was like, huh, maybe I should investigate that a little bit further. And then I went down the fucking rabbit hole and I could do, with the number of overdrive that are out there, I could do 10 more shootouts just like this. Yeah. So now I'm like, God damnit. Now I have boxes of pedals that I'm like, well, I could get rid of this one, but what if I need it for this particular scenario? I got a deal

Speaker 4 (00:26:51):

For you. I got a deal for you. You can send them to me. I'll relieve your burden for free of course.

Speaker 3 (00:26:56):

And

Speaker 4 (00:26:56):

Then you can continue with the peace of mind knowing that you don't have to worry about the decision anymore. And then I'll just sit and stare at them and do the same thing.

Speaker 3 (00:27:02):

That would be a weight off of my shoulders. Thank you for offering that.

Speaker 2 (00:27:07):

You know what, I used to have a bunch of pedals like that and I sold every one that I hadn't used in the past two years I sold. And guess what? Ever since then I haven't missed any of them

Speaker 3 (00:27:18):

And

Speaker 2 (00:27:19):

I don't have to worry about it anymore.

Speaker 3 (00:27:21):

Yeah, it's smart. I'll probably just keep a couple of them. It's like one of those things where I got to have a hot minute to list them and everything. But yeah, so I'm hoping to do a lot more of those kinds of things. Really the core, I think of what Gear Gods is about, what I like to call the meaty content of the website, the stuff that you can go and actually learn something and not just click bait bullshit, which we have to do a little bit of and can actually be really fun, but

Speaker 2 (00:27:54):

You need traffic,

Speaker 3 (00:27:55):

So

Speaker 2 (00:27:56):

Is what it is.

Speaker 3 (00:27:57):

So then when they get there and they watch whatever video of Zach Wild punching me in the face or something silly that we do like that, I've got two of those now of him

Speaker 2 (00:28:08):

Punching you in the face

Speaker 3 (00:28:09):

And one of me punching him in the face,

Speaker 2 (00:28:10):

How hard does he hit? Oh,

Speaker 3 (00:28:11):

I mean, it was fake. Bummer. It looks, that's like his thing though. It's all this punching. I mean, those were two of our biggest viral hits, so he's fucking hilarious. I want to just hang out with that guy all the time. He cracks me up so hard Anyway, but you know what I mean, people go, people who maybe aren't aware of the site might see that it gets shared by metal sucks or something, and they go, oh, I want to see this. And they go to the site and then they go, oh hey look, here's something interesting that I could learn today. For example, you asked what's the HAPS on Gear Gods recently? I started doing a theory series called,

Speaker 2 (00:28:56):

I actually was about to ask you about

Speaker 3 (00:28:57):

That. Yeah, it's called Trey's Theory Corner because I shoot it sort of ghetto, fabulous style in the corner of my bedroom instead of in the studio where we shoot all of our sort of more formal and serious or bigger scale content, just that I can get them out really quickly. And it's one of my favorite things to do because I really love music theory and I love teaching it.

Speaker 2 (00:29:25):

Did you go to music school?

Speaker 3 (00:29:26):

I did. I went to Berkeley College of Music for one year right out of high school because, well, mainly because I'm from the Boston area originally. And so I lived at home and I commuted in, I'm from Arlington, which is like a suburb, and then I got sick of living at home and shoveling snow half of the year. So I moved to California and I finished my degree at Sonoma State University. So basically I oddly enough was a jazz studies major for more than half of my college career, which is weird because I don't really listen to that much jazz, but I recognized how much better they were as musicians than me. So I was like, I'm I am going to soak up as much of that as I possibly can. So I took jazz guitar lessons, I studied jazz harmony and theory and stuff like that, and it made a massive difference in the way that I view music.

(00:30:29):

And I think that jazz guys have a lot to learn from metalheads, but I think Metalheads have a lot more to learn from jazz guys, specifically theory stuff and also maybe some feel. But yeah, so I took all the harmony classes that they offered and I think that it's one of the most important decisions I ever made in my whole life. So I'm trying to pass that on to our audience. And it's a little bit of a labor of love because for instance, the Petrucci video is probably something like 50,000 views at this point. My theory of videos are very beloved and they have a very high average view time, but not a whole lot of hits just yet.

Speaker 2 (00:31:19):

Well, I mean, you can't expect a huge amount of hits on a guitar theory video.

Speaker 3 (00:31:23):

Definitely not

Speaker 2 (00:31:24):

As compared to comedy.

Speaker 3 (00:31:25):

Certainly not. Which is why it's a labor of love. And I'm okay with that. I don't mind at all. I get more, first of all, I get way more positive comments if you can imagine this. The first theory video, I mean, I haven't checked on it recently, but the first one that I put out has zero thumbs down, which on YouTube is a fucking miracle because anybody can give it a thumbs down for any reason they don't like my face. Would

Speaker 4 (00:31:52):

You like it? Would you like me to give you one?

Speaker 3 (00:31:55):

No, please God. No.

Speaker 2 (00:31:58):

Yeah, I'll add a second one.

Speaker 3 (00:31:59):

Exactly. There you go. There's two reasons, two trolling reasons to give a thumbs down. There's no guidelines. No. Give this a thumbs down if it contain I'll. So child pornography, whatever,

Speaker 4 (00:32:11):

Every time we do a video at URM, there's always within the first 10 minutes of us posting it, there's always somebody like nail the mix, whatever. There's always somebody that goes, and there's two people that it's like two or three thumbs down and it's on every video. There'll be like five people have thumbs up, there's already two thumbs down, and then it goes way up on the positive side. So there's somebody that just sits and waits around for us to post something and then actually dislikes it. It's part their team. And

Speaker 3 (00:32:35):

They probably subscribe to you too.

Speaker 4 (00:32:37):

They probably are. They have to be. I just think it's hilarious. I laugh every time I see that. I'm like, wait, okay, how long we're going to take bets and how long the hate comes? Two thumbs down and one two minutes. Alright, got it done. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:32:50):

It's cancer. The internet is just full of cancer is fucking idiots. I don't mean to say, I mean that they are the cancer, not that they not cancer victims. That would be terrible.

Speaker 4 (00:33:03):

Well, do you know that being a cancerous idiot actually causes cancer? Yes. In some states,

Speaker 3 (00:33:08):

If only, man, it's usually really super nice and cool people that get cancer. What the fuck? Anyway, yeah, so that's something every two weeks, every other Tuesday I put out a theory video. Currently we are smack dab in the middle of the intervals. I say smack dab actually in a month. We'll be smack dab in the middle when we come to Tritones, which are exactly in the middle of the octave. But currently we are, let's see, just on Tuesday. Thanks

Speaker 2 (00:33:38):

For clarifying.

Speaker 3 (00:33:39):

Yeah, I like to be very transparent.

Speaker 4 (00:33:43):

Can you get that tritone substitution lesson in there too, please?

Speaker 3 (00:33:46):

Yeah, that's a little bit down the road. So the reason that I started doing it, there's a billion theory videos on YouTube. Why should you watch mine? The way that theory is presented is as this super nebulous, very

Speaker 2 (00:34:02):

Boring,

Speaker 3 (00:34:03):

Just very boring and just coming at it from the wrong way sort of style. And I think that it should be fun. I think that it is fun, and I think that it's not as hard as people make it seem. I get these kids coming and asking me these questions like they're fucking terrified of it. They're so scared and they think that they have to go to college to learn this stuff or that it's outside of their capability to learn. And it's absolutely not. Anybody can use it. And I've broken it down into the smallest possible, easy munch, a little bites.

Speaker 2 (00:34:43):

That's the same exact mentality that I took when I did my first Creative Live was we're doing a topic. My first one ever was about programming mid drums, a topic that's not that interesting that a lot of people are afraid of for some reason, and that how do you make that not the most boring thing ever? But I took that approach too, of trying not to make it be like all the other videos I'd seen online and to try to make it to where a sixth grader could understand it yet have the information be legitimate, and to make it something where if they actually watch it over the course of a weekend, by the end of that weekend, they would know how to actually at least get by.

(00:35:29):

And that actually proved to be super successful. And that's been my mo towards teaching stuff online is don't worry about dudes who try to teach hyper technical things for electrical engineers. Not those kinds of people. They can go get their PhD in engineering if they want to in audio engineering, if that even exists. But for the rest of the people who read those crazy complex articles or watch videos like that who get intimidated by this stuff, I want to present this way in a way that will help them because I don't think this stuff's that hard.

Speaker 3 (00:36:06):

Yeah, exactly. And I think something like that, especially like programming drums or whatever that could potentially fall under the category of things that are intuitive. I program drums intuitively. I have a little pad and I kind of tap it out and then I move stuff around. But I am never thinking this is an eighth note pattern and this is a flam. And I think that stuff like music theory can also be intuitive if you teach it in an intuitive way or a way that appeals to people's intuitive side. So far I have not written down a single note head on paper or anything, and we'll probably eventually do that, but for right now, I think people, when they think of music theory, they imagine sheets and sheets of, what's it called?

Speaker 2 (00:37:03):

Notation.

Speaker 3 (00:37:04):

Notation and having to learn what sharps and flats and all this written out stuff. And they have this image in their head that that's what it looks like when it's as simple as like, okay, a major third is take one note and then you go up four frets on your guitar or go to the next string and go down one fret. And that's the shape of a major third. And why that's important will come across later. But you can just know that and then have it forever. You can be playing a song that you already know and you see that shape and you go, huh, oh, that has a name. It's called a Major Third Bam. And it's not that fucking hard, basically.

Speaker 2 (00:37:53):

Well, I think that it's important also for theory to be presented in an easier way. You're talking about, because as a guitar player who went to school for guitar, I can tell you that a lot of people ruin their playing with theory because they make it into too big of a deal by making it into too big of a deal. It becomes the only thing they think about when they play. And then they do end up sounding like they're just regurgitating scale in theory exercises when it really should just be something that they reference or something that becomes part of their instinct.

Speaker 4 (00:38:26):

You just discredited the entire genre of shred guitar. Hey

Speaker 2 (00:38:29):

Man, ve who basically helped start that doesn't know what the fuck fri and scale well mode would be if it landed on his Ferrari and make him wreck into a goddamn tree. He wouldn't know what it was.

Speaker 4 (00:38:43):

Guitar World like 1997, they had the pole. I have the issue in my old man's basement somewhere. They have a pole of the a hundred greatest guitar players of all time, and they each had a quote and VE was in the top 10 or whatever. And his quote was, I know all the theory there is to know. Period.

Speaker 2 (00:39:01):

Wow. Yeah, he doesn't know shit.

Speaker 4 (00:39:05):

You don't fuck with ve, he just plays heavy e frig and sweeps diminished right up the fret board and you piss right off.

Speaker 2 (00:39:11):

Oh, I'm not knocking his playing one bit. I think he's incredible. But I know that he doesn't know a goddamn thing about theory. I mean, he knows his harmonic minor shapes.

Speaker 4 (00:39:22):

He knows how to kick in the air when he plays guitar and make ridiculous faces.

Speaker 2 (00:39:26):

That's all that matters. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (00:39:28):

It really is. I love Ingram, a total inve fan.

Speaker 3 (00:39:31):

Yeah, man, here's what I think of your fucking theory, man. Bam. And then he kicks you.

Speaker 2 (00:39:37):

I guess my point is that he only knows the very, very basics that he uses, and I don't even know how much of that he actually knows, but it really shouldn't be that tough or that crazy besides, I don't think that inve sounds like one of those guys that I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (00:39:55):

I'll put it this way, I don't think Inve knows any more theory than he did when he was 19.

Speaker 2 (00:39:59):

I don't think so either. Okay. Do you guys, you remember Black Dahlia murders guitar player before?

Speaker 3 (00:40:04):

Oh my God. The guy

Speaker 2 (00:40:05):

Before Ryan.

Speaker 3 (00:40:06):

I was hoping that somebody else was going to bring that up because that's exactly what I was thinking of.

Speaker 2 (00:40:10):

Okay. That's the Berkeley level two scale study guitar solo extravaganza.

Speaker 3 (00:40:15):

Yeah. Or the guitar rii exercises in a song. That's

Speaker 2 (00:40:21):

What I'm talking about. That guy, all he ever did was take the scale exercises, go up, then down, then up and third.

Speaker 3 (00:40:32):

Yeah. Fuck yeah, dude, that's my shit. He almost ruined those albums. Okay. I just saw them on tour and they're one of my favorite death metal bands of all time. Okay. And they're

Speaker 2 (00:40:43):

Phenomenal.

Speaker 3 (00:40:44):

And they have Brandon Ellis filling in. So Brandon Ellis is like a hundred percent the new Jason Becker. He's fucking unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (00:40:54):

I need to check him out. I'm behind on my guitar player in Aubrey, but when somebody makes a claim is the next Jason Becker that catches my attention.

Speaker 2 (00:41:01):

No, no, no. It's real. It's true.

Speaker 4 (00:41:03):

Here's the thing with new guitar players, if you guys will allow me, maybe I'm old school and I'm cane wielding old man when it comes to this, but man, when I was a kid and I was learning to play guitar, we had guys like Jason Becker and just all these really badass guitar players, and then the whole internet stopped caring about guitar in 2000 and it's just become shit. So kids now, what they think about good guitar kids will bring shit into me and the dude's doing some rudimentary tapping. I could teach a guitar student by a year or two, and he's like, oh dude, look how sick this is. And I'm like, get the fuck out of here. Let me show you a real guitar player. Here's Sean Lane, here's Jason Becker, here's Paul Gilbert at 18 years old and intense rock one. Where the fuck is this kid? Oh my God, it makes me so aggravated. So when you claim that I'm interested.

Speaker 3 (00:41:57):

Yeah. So now that grandpa's rant is over when I was a boy. No, you're absolutely right. I think I'm

Speaker 2 (00:42:05):

Reliving the glory days. Come on. Well, nobody told Brendan Ellis though.

Speaker 3 (00:42:10):

Yeah. Imagine all of the glory days came to life in a human being. And that's Brandon Ellis. He's super, just got all of it down and the best of vibrato. I mean, he's probably sick of people praising his vibrato, but it is ridiculous. Anyway, so I saw him on tour with Black Dahlia,

Speaker 4 (00:42:30):

Zach Wild, ridiculous or just ridiculous,

Speaker 3 (00:42:34):

Maybe more ridiculous, but not ridiculous, ridiculously good. And so he's playing on the fucking Unhallowed whatever, 20 year anniversary, 15 year anniversary of their first album coming out. So he has to play all of that other verbatim. And I was just like, oh God, that sucks so bad. He's 150 times better than that other guy, and he has to play the scale patterns from the book. It's still great, but

Speaker 2 (00:43:09):

What a waste.

Speaker 3 (00:43:10):

Oh my God. Anyway, still a great band. Fucking great songs awesome show.

Speaker 4 (00:43:15):

Is this guy like Rusty Cooley? Good?

Speaker 3 (00:43:17):

Oh, I mean, rusty Cooley is great, but this guy is way better. Dude,

Speaker 4 (00:43:21):

When Rusty came out, I've never seen somebody do four note per string string skipping octave shit that was retarded when he came out with that.

Speaker 3 (00:43:29):

Right? I would say, yeah, Brandon is way more musical, I guess Rusty Cooley is one of the ultimate technique shred dudes. Yeah. I don't know Brandon Ellis. It just feels nice.

Speaker 2 (00:43:43):

Yeah, but that's not to say that Brenda's any sort of slouch. He's technically on God believable.

Speaker 4 (00:43:51):

Yeah. I can't wait to hear it. That was my life. I used to run a very big guitar blog for many, many years back in the day called insane guitar.com, and I literally did nothing but shred guitar all day every single day. And it was kind of sad. I dunno, I didn't enjoy other music very much when I listened to that. I was too elitist for that. It was just like, I dunno, you have to be part of the club. You kind of have to be just a complete piece of shit about guitar. So

Speaker 3 (00:44:20):

I think everybody goes through a phase like that when they first get into something. I was kind of like that too.

Speaker 2 (00:44:26):

Alright, so who else do you think is awesome? I think Jason Richardson is incredible.

Speaker 3 (00:44:30):

Yep.

Speaker 2 (00:44:31):

Who else do you think is incredible from the younger group? Because Brendan's younger, Jason's younger, are there any other, so those are two guys that I think are every bit as good as the classic guys. They're some of the only guys I know of these days who are, you could drop them into any era and they would be great.

Speaker 3 (00:44:51):

Yes.

Speaker 2 (00:44:52):

Who else do we know in that young crew? Who's that good?

Speaker 3 (00:44:57):

Nick Johnston.

Speaker 2 (00:44:58):

Who's that?

Speaker 3 (00:44:59):

I mean, he's a solo guitarist. I don't know that he's been in any bands of note. Canadian guy, man. Let's see. So he's not really a shredder per se. He plays a classic single coil Strat sound through a fender combo usually, or a Freedman, but he's just kidding. I think he was kind of like an acolyte for a little while type of deal. But he has expanded on that idea so far beyond those very narrow boundaries. Everything. He is a little bit jazzy, a little bit kind of like very dramatic.

Speaker 2 (00:45:44):

I was about to say ve with chromatic.

Speaker 3 (00:45:46):

Yes. Imagine that. Shit, I

Speaker 2 (00:45:49):

Can't even listen to Shred anymore.

Speaker 3 (00:45:51):

No, it's not shred. It's not even really metal per se. It's kind of hard rock mixed with even some acoustic stuff and some and weird big band era swing sounds and kind of stuff like that. And then shredding guitar when he shreds, he fucking out shreds everybody and their grandma. But he's

Speaker 2 (00:46:19):

My grandma. Shreds pretty

Speaker 4 (00:46:21):

Hard. Yeah, you could see her sweet picking, man.

Speaker 3 (00:46:23):

Let's see this punk,

Speaker 2 (00:46:25):

This

Speaker 3 (00:46:26):

Fucking Nick Johnston. She could out shred me. I doubt it.

Speaker 2 (00:46:30):

Dude, her down picking is

Speaker 4 (00:46:31):

Sick too. I'll tell you what pisses me off about Shred 10 years ago I, or 15 years ago, I'd murdered myself now for saying this, but I remember because when you have a blog, you get solicited by a lot of press releases and stuff like that. Everybody wants to push their stuff or have them come do an or whatever. Tell me about, so I remember I would always get these press releases from a manager. It'd be like, so-and-so super guitar player teams up with big vocalists from this band and makes this super group. And you're like, fuck yeah, this is going to be awesome. It's like George Belli on guitar and this dude from this really awesome band and this epic drummer and Vitali, I can't pronounce his last name, Cooper on keyboard or you know what I mean? It's just like all star shred Schramo guys. And then you hear the first track and it just starts out with the 1987 Impella Terry riff. And then the high vocal comes in with the Yeah. And then there's the guitar solo. Yeah. Oh shit. And that was it. I was just lost there. I'm like, I've heard this fucking band 787 times already today just by going through my playlist.

Speaker 3 (00:47:37):

And I don't even know if Shred guitar fans like that. I think that's just become so standard that they just go, oh yeah, okay. That sounds

Speaker 4 (00:47:47):

Right. It's the expectation. You have to play neoclassical music if you want to be a shredder. At least it was 10 years ago when I used to care about that stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:47:54):

Or you can be Guthrie Govan and go play for Han Zimmer.

Speaker 4 (00:47:58):

Yeah. Or you could just play inve covers. And

Speaker 3 (00:48:01):

They forget, a lot of them get so into the guitar that they forget about music. That sucks.

Speaker 4 (00:48:07):

Very

Speaker 2 (00:48:08):

True, very true.

Speaker 3 (00:48:09):

Guthrie does not suffer from that problem.

Speaker 2 (00:48:11):

No. And I mean Jenny one that's not aware, he does have the Han Zimmer gig. That's why I said that. Oh yeah, totally. I'll

Speaker 4 (00:48:17):

Tell you an interesting story about that too. Now that you mentioned that comment trait. When I played in a thrash metal band for many years, I then sold out quote and started a butt rock band. This is like 2008 or oh nine, and making the transition from being a shredder for eight years or whatever, and living, shitting, breathing, nothing but speed, crazy guitar, and then having to play rock music and write singles and things like that. I had to relearn how to play guitar over in a year.

(00:48:47):

And it was actually one of the most freeing and liberating experiences because I didn't lose any of my technique or chops. But what I did is I grew so much better musically as a guitar player and really learned how to just step outside of scales and arpeggios and thinking of things very linearly like, okay, we're on a sea chord so I can do this, this, this or this. It is more like I'm just going to hold this bend with this vibrato and push this destroying wa pedal and I'm just going to keep doing it because I can and it's awesome. And boobs.

Speaker 2 (00:49:16):

I've always thought it was hilarious when a shred guy would suddenly go rock. And it would be like all the, if you were to write down everything about rock that sells on a checklist, their albums would always contain that checklist. But it was so lame, always. It's so bad. Or when Dream Theater would do the radio song, they would also go down the Nickelback checklist. You guys know the checklist I'm talking about? It's so bad. So I don't know. I think I'm not saying that it can't be done. I'm sure you did it well, but sometimes those guys need to just stay in their lane. They worked for 20 years to become awesome at guitar and then three months to try to write songs. It's like you're not going to learn how to write hit songs in three months.

Speaker 4 (00:50:05):

Well, here's the thing, playing for the bar for 20 to 50 people that don't give a shit except for the six cross arm dudes that are sitting there with their one girlfriend that they share a waiting for you to fuck up and then peering through your soul while you're playing and you're under the hot lights, you're sweating. Maybe you got two hours of sleep that night on the cold ass tour bus and you're kind of pissed off for whatever reason, because the drummer's being a dick. And you just miss that one note of that vibrato. And then they look and they nod and they look at their girlfriend. They're like, yep, yep, I could have did that better. You get to deal with that every night. And then you put out a song and then it goes on the internet, and then you get 1,877,612 hate comments and death threats on YouTube and one, you know what I mean?

(00:50:50):

You get tired of that shit. So actually switching from rock, which I thought I would hate and would be totally lame, was a lot more fun to play because actually knowing how to play guitar and not having to use my abilities other than just stuff that was totally on autopilot. And it was just fun. It was so liberating to play because people would actually come out to the shows and we blew up really fast and just people really got into it. And it is so crazy. You do some crazy lick and no one's impressed, but then you just whip out a little bit of pentatonic shit and people are like, dude, holy fuck you shred. So they just appreciated it a lot more and there were no critics and it was just a lot more fun and a better atmosphere. They didn't give a shit if you screwed up, you just throw your guitar off your shoulder and make it look like you meant to do it. And then they scream and cheer and you're like, yeah. So it was fun. That's what I'm saying. I had more fun playing rock, coming from being a pretentious shred dickhead than I did ever think I was going to. And it was just a great experience. So who would've figured?

Speaker 3 (00:51:49):

Well, so I have kind of an interesting perspective on that same idea. So because I've always sort of peppered my metal with other stuff, I tried very, very, very hard to make sure that the songs were good first and then that the solo was good. I mean, there was a moment when I kind of made that switch because originally it was the other way around. I only gave a shit about the solo. And I realized that I was putting so much pressure on myself for the solo that I was caring less about the song and then the solo hit. And I was just like, get it right, get it right, get it right, get it right. And what I didn't realize is that your average listener doesn't actually give a shit about the solo. They only care about the song and the solo is almost a distraction to them if it's in the wrong spot,

Speaker 2 (00:52:39):

Unless it's a solo hotel California or Switch out of mine where it's basically the song,

Speaker 3 (00:52:48):

It has to elevate the song if you put it in the wrong spot, or if it's not melodic enough, then for the average listener it can be a distraction. So this might be kind of a daring thing to admit, since I run a metal website, and I'm probably going to get a lot of shit for this. So I write a lot of music. I love to write songs of all kinds, but I also write pop music. I write

Speaker 4 (00:53:16):

Pop songs. Oh, that's not that bad, dude. I just came out with a new machine head single the other day, and I listened to pop music all the fucking time. So sue me.

Speaker 3 (00:53:24):

And it's a completely different art form. But at the same time, I learned so much from writing these pop songs that completely translates to the metal music that I write.

Speaker 4 (00:53:34):

Here's a question for you, Trey. Do you think that it's harder to write a number one single than it is to write the most progressive of songs? Because I do. Because back when I played technical music, it was just like you put together a bunch of stupid rifts. They were hard to play and like, oh yeah, we'll just change time signatures and tempos here and we'll interlock up there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really technical. That's cool. Whereas pop, you have to write in a very specific thing and writing a song that's timeless that people are going to want to, it's a skill. And the highest paid guys write pop, and they're really brilliant songwriters and I feel like a lot of those guys can write anything. So I don't know. What do you think?

Speaker 3 (00:54:11):

A hundred percent. So I think that pop is harder to write and metal is harder to perform.

Speaker 2 (00:54:16):

Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (00:54:17):

And Max Martin,

Speaker 2 (00:54:18):

Really, have you ever tried being a backup dancer for one of those pop artists?

Speaker 3 (00:54:24):

No,

Speaker 4 (00:54:24):

I have not. We're talking about guitar playing here. Not dancing.

Speaker 2 (00:54:29):

Okay. Well then, hold on. Any of you ever tried to get really good at funk guitar with the right hand work? Yes.

Speaker 4 (00:54:36):

That

Speaker 2 (00:54:37):

Shit is hard as fuck. That's true.

Speaker 4 (00:54:39):

Just different.

Speaker 2 (00:54:39):

Just different. It's just different but hard. It's not easy. I have a much easier time shredding than doing the right hand stuff for funk. So I don't know. I don't know if I'm with you on that. Metal's easier to perform. Well,

Speaker 3 (00:54:53):

Maybe the stuff that I write is, I mean, for pop is easier to play, but yeah, it's basically, it's a whole different world. It's a whole new world, a new fantastic point of view. That's Aladdin.

Speaker 2 (00:55:12):

I was wondering which one that was from No one to tell us no or where to go, at least now that I don't sit around watching kids movies as evidenced by the response if You guys

Speaker 4 (00:55:24):

Want to start an Alad Corps with metal zone paddles? Oh

Speaker 3 (00:55:27):

My God.

Speaker 4 (00:55:27):

Let me know. I'm in. I'll be the genie.

Speaker 3 (00:55:31):

Yeah, and Alex obviously is Aladdin. All right, let's keep moving. So, oh, I was going to say that ald, fuck Aladdin. Max Martin, who is the most successful pop songwriter of the last 20 years probably is a metalhead. He was in metal bands back in Sweden and all this, and he's worth $400 million. So I'm fucking coming for you, max. I am coming for your throne wherever you are. I'm sure

Speaker 4 (00:55:56):

He hears you and everyone else in la.

Speaker 2 (00:55:58):

Yeah, seriously. I'm sure he hears your threats right now and is quivering.

Speaker 4 (00:56:02):

You know what he would actually do from the guys that I know that work with him is he would actually, if you were any good, just acquire you and make you part of his team and then leverage you and make even more money. Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (00:56:11):

It's not a terrible idea. I should find him.

Speaker 2 (00:56:13):

Yeah. Anyway, so I want to ask you a question about Gear Gods, because we haven't talked about gear Gods at all. No. How did you get hooked up with them and what were you doing before you were doing this?

Speaker 3 (00:56:28):

That's a wonderful series of questions. So let's see, I was born in a small town in called Arlington, Massachusetts. So basically I was a guitar teacher for a very long time. I worked at a music store doing retail stuff, and I sort of got into teaching sideways. I had friends ask me like, Hey man, can you show me some of this stuff? Basically I taught for food. I would be like, bring me a box of cookies and I will give you a guitar lesson. And so that was in college. And then I started getting more serious about it. I started working at a school and teaching private lessons, and I did that for seriously for five years. That was pretty much my whole life and playing in bands and stuff. And then one day I was scrolling around the Metal Sucks Facebook page, or maybe it just dropped into my feed, and they were looking for someone to do this, basically a gear site, and they were looking for people to apply for the editor in chief position.

(00:57:35):

So I kind of did the overachiever version of an application, which is that I actually filmed the very first rigged thing, a rigged episode before there was even a rigged. So this band, Coran is friends of mine. They're kind of like a underground black metal band, kind of had some success on metal sucks and stuff like that, and they're great, super great, good friends of mine still trekking along, putting out awesome records. And they happened to be in the studio. So I just borrowed a camera. I went in the studio, filmed all their gear and them talking about it and stuff, and I edited it and I showed it to them and I did a writeup.

Speaker 2 (00:58:25):

Did you do do it?

Speaker 3 (00:58:26):

I do do it. And then I also wrote an editorial about a really bad experience that I had with a custom guitar builder, and I submitted all of this and they were like, wow, okay. And we did a phone interview and everything, and I didn't get the job. They picked Chris Alfano, who was at the time was far and away better for the job than I was. Anyways, so that actually worked out fine. But they liked me so much that they invented a position for me. They were originally, it was just going to be Chris doing everything, and they were like, okay, well, you seem to be really into this and you seem to know what you're talking about, so we're going to make you a contributing writer position. So I was like, great, I'll take it. And for a year I was pretty much just doing a couple articles a month, just random crap writing stuff up. And they initially did not even want to have a video component to the website, or at least they didn't really consider it when they were making the site to begin with. And I just kept pushing the idea of doing lots of video stuff because I kind of think that YouTube is the future. I really love YouTube. I love the idea of almost being your own network, being like the little mini NBC of whatever it is that you do. And so I shot a bunch of video content and just kept pushing and being really annoying.

(01:00:10):

That works, doing a lot more work than I was getting paid to do because I loved it. It was an outlet, and suddenly people gave a shit what I think thought thinked,

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):

That's the right word,

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):

Gave a shit what I thunk. And so I just kept hammering away at it. And then so they eventually upgraded me to a senior editor, which is another position that they made up just to give me a better title. And then eventually what happened, it was, let's see, January of last year just before Nam Chris got a new job. And I had at that point, made myself essentially indispensable. I was the obvious choice because they'd have to train somebody else to do all this stuff and use how to use WordPress and crap. So I'm sure they were, I made the choice really easy for them, I'll put it that way, just through sheer having a cheery, shitty attitude.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):

Just not being relentless.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):

Exactly. So then they made me editor in chief, which I have now done for a year and a half, I guess since, yeah, it was January of last year. So a year and a half. And it's been the single greatest thing I've ever done. It's the most fun I could possibly imagine doing for a job. I mean, it's funny, I think about the kind of stuff that I was doing when I wasn't working two or three years ago, and it's a lot of, it's kind of the same thing that I was trying to do, just making videos and playing a lot of guitar and caring about gear at least a little bit. And now it, it's like

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):

Playing guitar, making videos and caring

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):

About all the same thing, but other people care about it too. And I get paid to do it, and it's fantastic. It's a ridiculously charmed life. I'm not a rich man, but I am very, very happy most of the time,

Speaker 4 (01:02:25):

Rich and joy and gear.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):

So it's super fucking dope.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):

So what would you say to someone who wants to do something like what you do for a living? We've got a few people and our listeners who want to work online or do stuff like that. What would you say? Just

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):

I'd tell 'em to fuck off and

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):

Not, I don't mean take your job.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):

I know, I know. No, I would man. Well, I would tell them to invest in a good quality camera and a good light, a good lighting rig.

Speaker 4 (01:03:01):

What camera are you using?

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):

Okay, so I have three cameras now. So we shoot all of our more formal content on the canon. We have been shooting on the 70 D and we just upgraded to the A D, D, which is perfect because it sounds like a DD like attention deficit disorder. And we have that. So actually Alex bought the 70 D and then he sold me the 70 D when he upgraded to the A, DD. And so I have that now. I've been shooting on that just a little bit. Most of the stuff I shot on when starting out was GoPro. You cannot fuck up with a GoPro. If the lighting is okay, it's going to look good. It can't look. We

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):

Use those on nail the mix.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):

Yeah, it can't look amazing. I mean, for what it is, it looks spectacular. I

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):

Mean, if you're jumping off of a cliff or something, maybe it'll look amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):

There's a threshold of how good it can look, but the low threshold of how bad it can look is not, it's hard to make it look bad. It's really hard to fuck up. So I shot most of my early reviews and stuff on that. And I also use a Zoom Q eight, which is awesome because it's kind of like a GoPro in that it doesn't have a variable lens on it, it's just kind of a static kind of a deal. But it has XLR inputs so you can record all your audio straight into the video while you're doing it. And I use that for all my theory videos. So yeah, if you can afford something like a nice decent cannon, I mean, you can get a rebel that'll look almost as damn good for 400 bucks or something and invest in a decent lens. But you can get cheap as fuck lights on Amazon, cowboy studio lights,

Speaker 4 (01:04:46):

You got like 70 bucks. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):

Cowboy Studio. It loads the same kind of bulbs as any other super high-end professional studio lights. You can get the same bulbs and put it in. They're cheap and flimsy. But if dude, they work,

Speaker 4 (01:05:01):

They absolutely work. We

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):

Used it for everything for the longest time and just recently kind of upgraded. But yeah, so I think personally, I think that video is the most important. So if you have good looking videos, you can have a whole career on YouTube doing something. If you have good content for whatever, I think starting a YouTube channel, I would say start a YouTube channel now, whatever it is that you're doing, because I wish, man, it takes time for it to catch on. Our YouTube channel is three years old now, and it's just now starting to get some serious traction. Our video that has the most hits is around almost 400,000, which is pretty good, but it's taken years to accrue those kinds of hits and subscribers. We have 40, 35,000 subscribers right now, and that's a lot, but it's a very slow burn. But if you want to work in the music, I don't know, what would you call this particular

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):

I is the music industry. It's just not like the record industry.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):

You guys are the press kind of. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):

Well, yeah, you guys are, the New press magazines are not really a thing. I mean, they exist, but people get their press through you guys and through metal sucks and metal injection, which are all the same thing kind of. Exactly,

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):

But yeah, you guys are the, wow, the Jews do run the media.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):

I'm just their Irish pawn.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):

Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):

Yeah, exactly. So if you want to work in music media or press, then WordPress is the bomb.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):

Then get on Ben and Matt's good side.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):

Yeah, exactly. Okay, I'll be more specific.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):

No serious answer. Now I won't interrupt.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):

You have to honest to God not be a dick. So I hesitate putting this out there because now I'm going to get a billion emails. So I get a lot of emails from PR folk, public relations, press people. So somebody hires them to get their stuff on our website and other websites and other TV and all that. And the reason that I listen to them and I care about what they've got going on, aside from the fact that they get me access to bigger artists is because they ask me nicely. They write me an email that's personal. They say, Hey, Trey, do you think you could premiere this video for me this coming week? The artist would really appreciate it. And I get independent bands who do the same thing. And even though they might only have 500 likes on their Facebook page and they shot a really great looking play through video and they've got an album coming out, and they ask me nicely, and sometimes I premiere their video for them. And that's basically, that's what we do. So if you want to get on the good side of somebody who has a website or somebody you think who could hire you or whatever, don't think about being successful or getting ahead or getting a job or something. Just make friends. Don't be fucking annoying or be a dick. I mean, obviously I just told the whole story about how me being annoying got me this job, but I was persistent, not like, Hey guys, what are you doing? Hey,

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):

Let's be friends.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):

Yay. Since I've had this job, I've made so many legitimate, honest to God friends in the industry, and if they've got something going on, I want to be a part of it and I want to premiere stuff for them. I want to collaborate on things and they want to collaborate with me, not just because I'm the gear Gods guy, because there's lots of bigger outlets than gear Gods. I mean, we're not rolling Stone, but if Rolling Stone treat them like garbage, it doesn't matter. They're not going to want to be on Rolling Stone anyways. So I think it's really easy to make friends, and I don't want to say that I'm particularly necessarily good at it, but I don't because my intentions are genuine. I think people realize that pretty quickly versus the Sharks or the

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):

Nam.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):

Yeah, the Nam Punishers, bro. Bro, check out my demo, bro. Bro,

Speaker 4 (01:09:45):

Bro.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):

Yeah, exactly. And they just hammer you with something rather than being like, Hey dude, I like what you do. Oh, I'm in a band. Maybe it'll come up. Maybe it doesn't. Just make a friend.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):

Hey dude, I like what you do. Here's a dick pic.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):

You got a lot of those unsolicited.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):

No, thankfully, don't give him ideas. Although our demographic is an absolute sausage fest though, it's literally 95% of the people who come to our site are dudes. So I am sure it'll happen eventually. That'll be really bad. What

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):

Are we like 98.5 at URM? Yeah, I think we're

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):

98.5.

Speaker 4 (01:10:31):

Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):

I think that sucks. I wish there were more girls that were into it, but they're there and hello, hello, all my female fans, appreciate and love you. Thank you for

Speaker 4 (01:10:45):

Trey is single, and if you're available, please email

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):

Him. See, that's why they don't participate is because dudes always say shit like that to them.

Speaker 4 (01:10:54):

I just cock blocked. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):

See, Joe, just, Joe just reinforced why the females never communicate in these groups or participate because the moment they show themselves, someone thinks they're trying to get a date or something.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):

Yeah. Yeah. That sucks. So anyway, thank you Joel. I'll be here all week. So yeah, anyway, I guess my biggest piece of advice, number one, chill the fuck out. Or if you're too chill, you might be too passive. Get

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):

Involved. Okay. And this is not making fun of him, but how did Alex do it? Because on the surface, checks off some of those categories. He's a punisher. We love him though.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):

He's a lov, lovable punisher.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):

Well, dude,

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):

Alex is awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):

He's awesome. But how did Alex manage to get away with it?

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):

Well, because he's genuine. He's not bullshit. He plays harpsichord in a power metal band. Let's be real. Well, he has a very particular set of skills, aside from just being pretty knowledgeable about a lot of things that I have a high deficit of knowledge in specifically regarding stuff like mixing, mastering, that's all stuff that I, as soon as Alex started mixing and mastering all of my stuff, I quit trying to mix for a while. I was kind of into it, and he took that burden away from me, which I am eternally grateful. And he knows more about keyboard sound design than anyone I've ever met. And he also offered me a place to live. So we that's we're roommates. So I lived in Northern California for 11 plus years, and when I was thinking of moving to Southern California, he was like, Hey, come rent a room from me. And so

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):

See, you're making it sound even creepier.

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):

Yes, I did. Well, so I mean, we were already friends. Sorry, it wasn't just some Brando on the internet. So somebody who actually was in my band for a while moved down to Southern California. He started a band with Alex. They came up and played some shows with us. That's how I met Alex. And Alex is Mr. Fucking Sociable. So he's

Speaker 4 (01:13:24):

Dude, he knows everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):

He networks hardcore. So he's like, you could say that he's the annoying guy that I told you not to be, but because he's not really annoying, he's persistent.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):

He's not annoying at all. And

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):

He loves networking and he loves to introduce people to each other regardless of how awkward it might be. And he just powers through the awkwardness. So it works out really good for him in a lot of ways. And yeah, he's undaunted, so I don't know. So then he fulfilled a need that I had, which sounds very sexual, but it was that a lot of, he can do a lot of the stuff that I can't. So I would say the part two or three of my advice to people who want to do something like this is to obviously develop a useful skill or have a product that's worth having. I think it was a kind of recent revelation of mine about how marketing and strategies and packaging and what's it called, presentation is vastly more important than the actual product in a lot of ways. But if when they get through all of that packaging and marketing, the thing sucks, then it was all for not.

(01:14:45):

So you have to have something better, different, more useful or whatever than the next guy, or even just something that's really, really good. In the case of music, there's 800,000 death metal bands in the world. Some of them are obviously better than others, but there's only one neph and they're not coming out with any new music anytime soon. So if you do something kind of like that, you can also just be the other microphages or whatever. You can fulfill a need, a niche, and if you do it really well, and then you also have really great marketing for whatever. I mean, I'm just using music performance as an example. If you want to be the other neph ageist, you can have a lot of success. So it doesn't have to be a hundred percent completely original. You have to have a product. And when I say product, I mean a skill or some kind of a shtick or I don't know. A

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):

No, I completely agree. I just saw an interview with Mark Cuban on Creative Live who said that he hires people who are good at what he's bad at. And I feel like that's basically what it boils down to is exactly do what other people can't and won't do or fulfill what they don't have that they do want. And I feel like that's kind of what it boils down to

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):

Fulfill a need that somebody has and great. Actually, this brings up an important point that we've been talking about around the office, and actually we are looking for another writer to do a couple articles a week or something. And so if that's something you're interested in, you can email [email protected]. But so I guess looking for entry level positions like that and then having presenting those skills or product of which I speak earlier in a friendly, persistent, but not obnoxious way, then you can get in on the ground floor, kind of like I did for something like that. I dunno, recently Metal Sucks, was looking for an intern, getting an internship, something like that, and then fucking hammering away at it for a year or two years and then using those kind of genuine social skills. Some people don't have them and will never have them, but I think as long as what you're keeping in mind is that you actually give a shit about other people and their feelings and how they perceive you, as long as you care about that stuff and you care about the other people and you care about, what's the word?

(01:17:36):

Having a mutually beneficial arrangement of some kind, it's kind of hard to fuck up, really. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):

You got to definitely try. But a Trey, we're out of time.

Speaker 3 (01:17:47):

Holy shit. I didn't know there was a time limit. 90 minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):

Well, Joel has a hard cutoff, but we need to have you on here again. Obviously we could have kept talking for another 90 minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):

Yeah, I wish you'd have told me I would've gotten to my points faster.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):

Well, we don't normally hit the time limit, so we didn't think we would because we try to keep them to an hour, but Oh yeah, an hour.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):

We

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):

Blew right past that. Oh yeah, for sure. So we definitely need to do a part too. Here

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):

I am. A hundred percent down.

Speaker 4 (01:18:23):

Hell yes. Trey, it was a real pleasure. Thank you for coming on. Can't wait to hang out again. Hopefully now next year. Totally glad you guys are doing well. And I'm going to go watch some videos now.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):

Gear gods.net.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):

Yeah, gear gods.net is the hub for everything. It's got all of the stuff laid out so that you can find it all very easily. facebook.com/gear. If you like, Facebook, youtube.com/gear Gods, please be sure to subscribe. We put out new stuff three or four times a week sometimes. And yeah, thank you guys so much for having me on. This is so much fun. I would love to do it again. Anytime. We'll do it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):

Absolutely. The Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast is brought to you by the 2017 URM Summit, a once in a lifetime chance to spend four days with the next generation of audio professionals and special guests, including Andrew Wade, Kane Chico, Billy Decker, fluff, Brian Hood, and many more. The inspiration, ideas, and friendship you'll get here are the things that you'll look back on as inflection points in your life. Learn more at URM summit.com. The URM podcast is also brought to you by heirloom microphones. Heirloom microphones are high-end condenser microphones with something that has never been seen in the microphone industry, a triangular membrane. With our patented membranes and our tailored phase linear electronics, your recording and live experience will never be the same. Loo. Our microphones will help you discover clarity. Go to E-H-R-L-U-N-D SE for more info. To get in touch with the URM podcast, visit urm.com/podcast and subscribe today.