KEVIN ANTREASSIAN: Joining The Dillinger Escape Plan, Running a Studio, and Teching for Deftones

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Drum Forge. Drum Forge is a forward-thinking developer of audio tools and software for musicians and producers alike. Founded on the idea that great drum sounds should be obtainable for everyone, we focus on your originality, drum forge, it's your sound. And now your hosts, Joey Sturgiss, Joel Wanasek, and Eyal Levi. Hey everyone. Welcome

Speaker 2 (00:00:25):

To the Joey Sturgis Forum podcast. How are you guys doing today? Fantastic. Awesome,

Speaker 3 (00:00:30):

Awesome,

Speaker 2 (00:00:31):

Awesome. We have our good friend. Oh yeah. You're awesome, dude. I know that.

Speaker 4 (00:00:37):

Well, I've known you for a grand total of 20 minutes now, and I think you're awesome.

Speaker 3 (00:00:42):

Well, we've known each other longer than that. You just don't know it.

Speaker 4 (00:00:45):

We've talked on the internet before.

Speaker 3 (00:00:47):

Yeah. We've shot a few conversations here and there from that forum we're not allowed to talk about. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:00:52):

I don't know what you're even talking about,

Speaker 3 (00:00:54):

But have you guys heard exactly

Speaker 2 (00:00:56):

What?

Speaker 3 (00:00:57):

Have

Speaker 2 (00:00:57):

You guys dated on the internet though?

Speaker 4 (00:00:59):

We dated each other.

Speaker 2 (00:01:01):

Yeah,

Speaker 4 (00:01:02):

We almost did.

Speaker 3 (00:01:04):

That was a good rebuttal there.

Speaker 4 (00:01:06):

Yeah, we almost did. I mean, that's what I thought. That's what you meant, right?

Speaker 3 (00:01:11):

Do you want to talk about that on the show? Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:01:13):

I thought that we were

Speaker 3 (00:01:14):

Because pretty personal.

Speaker 4 (00:01:15):

Yeah. I thought we were keeping this to audio.

Speaker 2 (00:01:17):

Hey, some people have their limits, some people have their barriers. I just like to try and cross 'em. Okay. Make an

Speaker 3 (00:01:24):

Interesting show out of it.

Speaker 4 (00:01:25):

Yeah. Alright. Well that said it was short and I don't remember much of it. That's why I thought we were only friends for about 10 minutes.

Speaker 3 (00:01:33):

Right, right.

Speaker 4 (00:01:34):

Okay.

Speaker 3 (00:01:36):

However it works out in your head, that's fine.

Speaker 4 (00:01:38):

Yeah. Well, this is for anyone who's wondering. This is Kevin from Dillinger Escape Plan and Backdoor Studios, back Room Studios. I

Speaker 3 (00:01:52):

Edit that. Brandon. No, keep that in there. You got to leave that man. That's like the 30th time that's happened in my life, so

Speaker 4 (00:01:59):

That's all good. I was reading it too. I was reading it and that just came out.

Speaker 3 (00:02:04):

He took it well. You got to give him, well,

Speaker 4 (00:02:05):

He's used to it, I'm sure. It's amazing. We're

Speaker 3 (00:02:09):

Actually in the middle of a name change and a merger, but for the time being, we'll keep it with Backdoor Studio. Can

Speaker 4 (00:02:16):

You say what you're changing it to or who you're merging with, or is that all?

Speaker 3 (00:02:20):

It's not a massive secret. We're going to be changing it to Party Smasher Studios for the recording aspect of it. We already have the sign built in there and stuff like that, so it's not super hush hush, but we haven't really come out with a whole change yet, but it's going to happen soon.

Speaker 4 (00:02:35):

That's actually cool.

Speaker 3 (00:02:37):

Yeah, it's better. It's a better name for sure. I've always had trouble with the name Backroom Studios because I inherited the name and I just chose to keep it, which was stupid. And we're going to leave the rehearsal aspect of it as backroom and keep the recording and video aspect of it as party smasher.

Speaker 4 (00:02:53):

And if anybody's wondering, I'm familiar with Party Smasher, but maybe you can tell us a little bit about why Party Smasher is cool. Sure. Some people listening to this don't know what Party Smasher is

Speaker 3 (00:03:06):

Right now. It's going to be expanding a lot in the time to come, but right now it's just kind of a blog. They do a lot of articles. It's run by Ben for Dilling Drew the guitar player, and it's a lot of articles on really interesting stuff in media and music culture and actors, all kinds of stuff. It's a large gamut of stuff, but it's really interesting stuff. They pick really fun people to interview, like Mike Patton, some actors and shit like that. And yeah, it's neat.

Speaker 4 (00:03:37):

So smart people.

Speaker 3 (00:03:39):

Yeah, it's like cool DIY type stuff. Interesting.

Speaker 4 (00:03:43):

Ben, I've only talked to Ben online a couple of times, but he's a super smart dude.

Speaker 3 (00:03:48):

Yeah, I've learned a lot of my business savvy from him, one of my best friends and he just teach me guitar back in the day too.

Speaker 4 (00:03:56):

Was he in Dillinger when they first, is he an original founding member?

Speaker 3 (00:04:01):

He's the only original member.

Speaker 4 (00:04:04):

So I saw Dillinger when they were on what I think is their first tour with Mr. Bungle. Am I right about that? Was that the

Speaker 3 (00:04:12):

First

Speaker 4 (00:04:12):

US tour?

Speaker 3 (00:04:13):

That's a long time ago. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (00:04:14):

That's

Speaker 3 (00:04:15):

Way, that's for sure.

Speaker 4 (00:04:17):

Well, they kind of blew my mind because back then that kind of music didn't exist yet. Yeah. There was no such thing as minor seconds everywhere and odd time and total insanity. So it was kind of a mind blowing thing and it was just like, wow, I bet you that this is going to turn into a thing. So yeah, the singer didn't stick around for long though, and I know that. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:04:45):

Dmitri, they partied ways after that calculating Infinity record.

Speaker 4 (00:04:51):

So you just joined how long ago? I know that I've got a time warp for the past few years, but so it feels like two months ago to me, but I'm sure it was like three years ago now or something.

Speaker 3 (00:05:06):

It was last year about a little bit around this time last year where we were going through the audition process. It was a long process. I've known the guys for a long time though.

Speaker 4 (00:05:17):

Well used to tech for them, right?

Speaker 3 (00:05:19):

Yeah. I used to be the guitar tech and stuff like that too. So it's a very weird story about how I came out, but I weasel my way in essentially

Speaker 4 (00:05:28):

Care to explain.

Speaker 3 (00:05:31):

Sure. Let's see if I could do this whole thing, the skinny version of it.

Speaker 4 (00:05:37):

Think about it in terms of somebody listening to this show who plays guitar and wants to do a studio and is looking for ways in, and I think one of the best ways in is to get into a band because people will record with you if you're in a band. So

Speaker 5 (00:05:53):

Just

Speaker 4 (00:05:53):

From the perspective of up and coming producer or whatever slash guitarist, maybe you could explain it from that perspective.

Speaker 3 (00:06:03):

Sure, totally. And actually I tell all my interns that too is if you really want to get anywhere in this industry, you have to play some kind of music. You have to be involved in some scene of some kind. Otherwise you're just like, who's going to trust you with their music if you're not actually doing what they want to do? It's definitely a massive thing to be involved in the scene. So I used to play in a band called Knife the Glitter for many years, and it's kind like Dillinger esque type thing. We were hugely influenced by them. It's super spazzy, crazy eye time signature stuff.

Speaker 4 (00:06:39):

Is it true that you guys have been working on an album for eight years?

Speaker 3 (00:06:44):

We started with those songs. I think we wrote those anywhere from around 2007. We started recording it in 2009 and we're finally getting to mixing it now. I just don't care. I'm the fast track. Yeah, exactly. My band is constantly up my ass about it, but I'm like, you're not paying me to do this and I don't have any free time to do this. And none of us here in our free time wants to mix. It's like we do it all day for 14 hours. We want to go mix in our free time. I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (00:07:18):

This guy I work with John Douglas, he does a lot of engineering for me. He's got a band called From Exile and John is super busy and his co dude in the band is in the contortionist, so they never have time to do anything. They recorded the drums with me for the album literally three and a half years ago and they're still not done with guitars. Oh man.

Speaker 3 (00:07:41):

Sounds like another band that we both know again. Oh

Speaker 4 (00:07:45):

Yeah. But that's been done for 18 months, but

Speaker 3 (00:07:49):

I know at least,

Speaker 4 (00:07:49):

Right? Yeah, it's been done for a while, but okay, sorry. Continue. Continue.

Speaker 3 (00:07:53):

Oh, okay. We should go back to that though. Then I can go knock on his door and we can bring him in the conversation. So I was playing in that band and I was going to school for audio engineering, and I wanted nothing to do with audio engineering at the time. Everybody in the class was like, oh, what do you want to do when you get out of here? I was like, I want to mix, or I want to join this big ass studio and blah, blah blah. And I was just like, I just want to play on the road. And I have really no aspirations of doing the audio thing. It was just kind of a thing because my parents at the time were like, you have to go to college. And I was like, alright, fine. So I did that and it was actually way harder than I thought it was going to be. You couldn't pay me to go back to school. It was brutal. Especially doing classical guitar at the same time as the audio engineering class, of course was pretty, it was awful.

Speaker 4 (00:08:45):

You can't fake your way through classical guitar.

Speaker 3 (00:08:48):

No, I tried though. I definitely tried really hard. That's hard to do. Yeah, there was these juries at the end of every semester you had to sit in front of a panel of judges, like the teachers and stuff, and you had to play these songs and they had all the sheet music in front of 'em and you had to read the sheet music and play the parts. So the first few times I did typical Bach Bray or whatever, the regular standard crap thing that sucks about that is it's all about not just hitting the notes, but the inflection and the expression of that stuff. So it's really tough. So then the last time I was like, I'm going to do something so ridiculous that no one is going to be able to follow it and if I mess up, it doesn't matter. So I picked this Tata that was like, it just sounded like a Diller escape plan song, but it was like 10 minutes long. I honestly think I blacked out halfway through because I don't remember what happened, but I think they just told me to stop after a while. It just sounds literally like I was hitting random notes. That's how ridiculous it was. But they passed me for some reason. I don't know why.

Speaker 6 (00:09:51):

Okay. That's the new strategy just to get you out the door

Speaker 3 (00:09:55):

Probably. It's like, all right, fine, get out of here. This is terrible. It's definitely music they did not like. For sure.

Speaker 4 (00:10:00):

So do you use that classical vibrato when you play electric now or did you have to relearn vibrato for electric?

Speaker 3 (00:10:08):

I think I still use the same similar technique. I honestly was never, in my opinion, very good at classical guitar. I just had to get through it. The dudes in that school, it's mainly a jazz program, and the dudes in that jazz program, they pick two people a year to pass. And everybody else I tell to go home. It's not like Berkeley where they accept everybody.

Speaker 4 (00:10:27):

Oh yeah, they definitely do accept everybody.

Speaker 3 (00:10:29):

Yeah. Well, it's great business movies. They just take everyone's money and then they just all drop out.

Speaker 4 (00:10:34):

That school is rich.

Speaker 3 (00:10:36):

I mean, when you charge that much and you have that many people, it's a great marketing scheme. But yeah, I had to try out twice for the program and I failed the first time. And another guy who was a buddy of mine, he was trying out was way better than me and he failed three times. I don't know what happened, but yeah, he's a crushing guitar player. Even today,

Speaker 4 (00:10:58):

I feel like on those entrance exams at schools, a lot of it depends on how if the dude grading you or the panel likes you personally or not. Because I went through a few of those when I first got to Berkeley and the first time I went through those, the people clearly didn't like me, didn't like that I wasn't a jazz player. So they gave me, Berkeley has a one through seven point system like sevens. It's in every category, like reading, improvisation, technique, all this shit. And it's if you're seven, you're God, if you're one, you suck. And so I would say I was a five when I got there, but I had done a lot of work on guitar before I got there and first panel fuckers hated me, so gave me twos across everything, holy shit. And put me with people who literally had been playing guitar for six months. I had already been playing for years and was good. So yeah, I'm with dudes who remember in the late, I don't know if you guys remember, but there was an era where league guitar was not cool at all. The early two thousands, late nineties,

Speaker 3 (00:12:12):

That's when I learned how to play guitar. Okay.

Speaker 4 (00:12:13):

So yeah, so putting me in with a bunch of people who hadn't played guitar much meant being around people who were really, really underachievers. But then the next time I took the panels, I got all fives. I thought I should. So I don't know, I kind of feel like it's, are the teachers hung over? Do they like you? What is it?

Speaker 6 (00:12:36):

Yeah, I think's a too much beard for them.

Speaker 4 (00:12:38):

Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 6 (00:12:40):

Did you have a beard back then?

Speaker 4 (00:12:41):

Yeah, of course. I've had a beard since I was born. Was born with this. Alright, you failed and then you didn't fail.

Speaker 3 (00:12:49):

Fail, right. So I eventually got on the program. I mean we don't need to put that in here, but yeah, that's happened. And then I was in the program going through it and I was playing in that band at the same time and we had always just practiced in the singer's garage or the bass player's garage or it's a garage. We never at this point playing in the band for seven years or something, had ever had to pay for rehearsal. So we got kicked out of our bass parents' garage at this point because they moved out to the woods, be alone and have solitude and all. We would do just bring awful sounding noise every weekend. So we couldn't really argue with that. So we were like, what do we do? We started asking friends in bands, what did they do for rehearsal? And they brought up this studio that was actually within walking distance of our first rehearsal place that we used to jam in, which is weird.

(00:13:43):

And we never really went there. It was for sale and the guy was putting in a recording studio into it too. So I was like, holy shit, this is an awesome, awesome thing. And they were like, oh yeah, our buddy Dion is going to buy it. So I called up Dion and I was like, Hey man, are you really going to buy that place? We need a place to rehearse. And he was like, no, I'm going to pass on it. I'm going to buy a house instead. And I was like, all right, cool. So I called the owner and I was like, Hey man, what's the deal? And the dude was the worst. He's like a crazy cokehead dude that I can't explain it to you unless you ever met him, but he's the kind of guy, how

Speaker 4 (00:14:18):

Old was he?

Speaker 3 (00:14:19):

He's older. I mean at that time he was probably almost 50 or something.

Speaker 4 (00:14:24):

This was from an older school, rock generation burnout,

Speaker 3 (00:14:30):

But burnout, but on a new age born again type thing or something. So he would just bust into your rehearsal room mid jam and just talk to you for an hour and you couldn't escape. There's nothing you could do. You just had to sit there, stop your song and just entertain him. He owned the place and everybody would tell me this constantly

Speaker 6 (00:14:52):

Rehearsal Punisher.

Speaker 3 (00:14:53):

Yeah, he was pretty bad, man. He was really bad. So Dillinger was actually the first band to ever rehearse in his space. So the lore at the time when I was growing up was that Dillinger rehearsed there, but you couldn't go there. It was private kind of thing. So when I took over that studio, eventually they were still there and that's how I reconnected with the band. Ben had given me guitar lessons years ago in college, but then he went on tour and stuff like that and we lost contact and we reconnected back at the studio and then I was playing in that same band and he had heard us play and he liked it, so he took us out on tour, just the three of us, we were three piece. It was pretty rad because they had a big bus and they were like, we didn't have anything. So they were like, you guys want to just crash on our bus for the tour and you can do merch for us or whatever and help us out and you can stay on the bus. So it was the best situation possible. We couldn't really say no to it.

Speaker 4 (00:15:51):

Nice. First tour,

Speaker 3 (00:15:53):

Well, it wasn't our first tour, but it was the first real tour, first beneficial tour. We toured with bands. OPAs, I dunno if you remember that.

Speaker 4 (00:16:00):

Oh yeah. I've toured with them a few times actually

Speaker 3 (00:16:02):

Back in. So Chris and the guys.

Speaker 4 (00:16:04):

Oh yeah. I've known a few different lineups. I got to watch the one lineup that imploded on stage when Chris and the singer got into a fistfight. That

Speaker 3 (00:16:14):

Was it. I can't remember his name. The shorter guy.

Speaker 4 (00:16:16):

The short guy that looked like a pirate.

Speaker 3 (00:16:18):

Yep, yep. Dude, that guy was an animal. He would just get drunk as shit at bars and stuff. I don't know, I probably shouldn't be saying this.

Speaker 4 (00:16:28):

I don't think he's in the scene anymore. I remember touring with him and the shows would get rowdy and he would literally just bring people on stage and beat the shit out of them.

Speaker 3 (00:16:39):

That dude was definitely had something going on.

Speaker 4 (00:16:41):

Yeah, he was like five foot five, but he was flipping people over and stuff. It was amazing. It was like a miniature, incredible Hulk. And then, then the band had a fight on stage.

Speaker 3 (00:16:57):

Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (00:16:57):

Eventually. Yeah. That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (00:16:59):

Yeah, I remember that guy would when he was quiet and at nighttime when we'd find a place to crash and sleep in someone's couch or whatever and we'd talk. He was super nice and super calm, but when he would drink or during the shows, it was like the Hulk It so different person. And I remember specifically remember we were at this biker Nazi bar or some weird venue that we were at in the middle of nowhere and he was totally hammered and he was starting shit with all these dudes and we had to pull him away and be like, dude, please don't do this. This is not a good idea.

Speaker 4 (00:17:35):

You really do meet some rowdy people when you get out there. It's something that I feel like I didn't appreciate it while I was touring so much. I was so busy focusing on touring, but in real life I don't meet that many rowdy motherfuckers.

Speaker 6 (00:17:58):

Well, do you ever get out of your apartment in the first place?

Speaker 4 (00:18:00):

Well, I just mean in the past five years of being all studio and all our internet stuff and everything, yeah. I mean clearly you're not going to end up at a Nazi bar in West Virginia if you stay in your studio all the time.

Speaker 2 (00:18:16):

Joel, you've toured. You've seen some interesting things as well, right?

Speaker 6 (00:18:20):

Oh my God, yeah. I mean South America, I could go on for hours about some of the stuff that happened in South

Speaker 3 (00:18:25):

America. We're going there next in April. Tell me all about it. Where are you going? I should pull up the itinerary. I don't know. I know Chili's in there.

Speaker 6 (00:18:32):

Oh yeah, okay. I've been to Chile and I was in Peru, Chile, Bolivia and Ecuador for a day in Ecuador. Mostly in Peru though. And it is so fricking wild down there. I don't know if anybody works, they're always at the bar. They'll be at the bar until close at five or six in the morning and then you'll come back after you kind of sleep a few hours later and they're still at the bar and then they're all night and just like no one ever leaves the bar. Oh wow. It's the craziest thing. They're all coked up and drunk and it's just wild man. It's a fun place to go. Everybody's really, really friendly. They love their metal down there. They'll all get in arm lock and do a line head bang and shit. It's wild.

Speaker 4 (00:19:15):

It's like stepping into another era almost. Yeah,

Speaker 6 (00:19:18):

I remember one guy, okay, this is crazy. So we're playing in Ecuador and there's this dude just kind of throwing metal signs at us and flailing his hand, pumping it, and he smacks his finger on the edge of the stage and it's wood. I mean we're at some dive bar where they crammed 200 people into a space that would be fire code 75 in America.

(00:19:41):

So it was pretty intense and it's like a hundred degrees in there. And so this guy's just gushing blood all over. He cut himself down to the bone, he's freaking blood everywhere. So they finally pull him out, he goes and gets stitches. He comes back and he fucking does it again. And we're like, alright, this guy's got to go man. He's on some kind of crazy drugs and he's going to infect us with aids from drug needles. We got to get out of here. It was just shit that happened all the time. It was a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (00:20:07):

Oh man. So apparently we're going to Argentina, Chile and Brazil. I think those are the three.

Speaker 6 (00:20:13):

I've never been to Brazil or Argentina, but Chile is really, really nut awesome. Everybody down there is really friendly culturally, it's a really fun place to visit and the people just love metal and will embrace you with open arms. I mean I was in a shitty local band back then too, so we just got hit up by a promoter. He is like, you want to come down and tour South America? We're like, fuck yeah. And we just did it. That's awesome. They just put your flyers all over the streets and they'll come and they'll fill up the venues and

Speaker 4 (00:20:42):

Only in South America can dark funeral headline and bring 3000 people. Oh shit. Yeah, I went there with dark funeral and literally they would bring 3000 people and it's like how is this possible?

Speaker 6 (00:20:56):

Okay, so Iron Maiden in Mano war, the two biggest bands down there, at least they were when I went, that was 2004. But all my friends that are still down there that I talked to,

Speaker 4 (00:21:04):

I'm sure they still are.

Speaker 6 (00:21:05):

Yeah, dude, I remember one night we went to the bar in Lima in a place it's called Club Creep Do in Mira Flores, and it's the awesomest metal bar I've ever been into. It's so much fun and it was always packed every night we were there, it was kind of like our home base. And then we went there one night and there was just one dude other than the bartender laying there on his arm, literally crying and we're like, what happened to that guy? And the bartender was like, oh dude, iron maiden's in chili. And he saved up his whole salary for two months to go and he missed the bus. He passed out and got drunk. The dude sat there and cried about missing Iron Maiden at the table all night. You couldn't even talk to the guy. You're like, dude, let's have a beer. And he was just like, no, his life was decimated and roomed. He missed an Iron Maiden show in Chile. And we were just like, that's metal as fuck. I mean it was so much,

Speaker 4 (00:21:53):

You just answered a longstanding question I've always had about South American shows, which is how do they afford the concert tickets because

Speaker 6 (00:22:02):

They don't buy merch, they can't afford t-shirts at 10 bucks

Speaker 4 (00:22:05):

Or they buy bootleg merch. But I know how much money those people make in general in those countries and it's very, very little and the tickets are very expensive. So they save up for months.

Speaker 6 (00:22:18):

They do. It's like an event for them. So they go see the concert they want to, and that's their vacation for the year. Again, like I said, I don't know if anybody actually works down there just 24 hours a day partying, but man, it's a great place to go. It's just so much fun. And we had so many positive memories and all the people there were really, really friendly. So you're going to have a lot of fun. Cool. If we make it back,

Speaker 4 (00:22:42):

You'll be fine. I would just suggest not like,

Speaker 6 (00:22:45):

No shanty towns

Speaker 4 (00:22:46):

Don't go leaving your hotel at night and stuff

Speaker 6 (00:22:50):

And stay away from groups of 80 kids. Dude, they'll mob you and rob you and shit. And they told us all these crazy stories down there that scared the shit out of us. And we're like, okay. But I mean, the thing is everybody's five feet tall down there and the guy in my band was six two and he had his head shaved and he was just a really mean looking dude even though he was the nicest guy. So he was this towering figure. So I'm like, alright, we're good. We didn't have any problems.

Speaker 4 (00:23:12):

And the other thing I would say is, I don't know, I'm just going to say be aware that your bus, unless are you flying from place to

Speaker 3 (00:23:24):

Place? Yes.

Speaker 4 (00:23:25):

So there's no bus at all?

Speaker 3 (00:23:27):

No, I don't think so. I think it'll probably just be a hotel type thing

Speaker 4 (00:23:30):

Back and forth. Good. I was going to say if there is a bus at any point, just be well aware that you're going to get boarded by the military a few times and by the cops as well.

Speaker 3 (00:23:39):

Yeah, that happens. They're looking for stuff I bet.

Speaker 4 (00:23:42):

Probably. Yeah, they definitely are. It's really fun. Alright, so we keep on veering off. Just

Speaker 2 (00:23:50):

This has been a fun episode. That's

Speaker 4 (00:23:51):

Okay. I'm having a

Speaker 2 (00:23:52):

Great time. Shit.

Speaker 4 (00:23:54):

So basically wear a full body condom on stage so you don't get aids.

Speaker 6 (00:23:59):

Alright, so finger flick the blood aids.

Speaker 4 (00:24:02):

So you're going to South America. So he took you on tour and you had done shitty tours before that. That was your first real tour.

Speaker 3 (00:24:10):

We did this one, we called Disaster, which was with another local band. We went out to California and we almost didn't make it back. Our vehicle broke down and it was diesel. Nobody could work on it for some reason. We had no idea that was a thing until then.

Speaker 4 (00:24:22):

Oh yeah, the things you learn.

Speaker 3 (00:24:25):

But it's honestly, I wouldn't, it was a terrible tour. We didn't get paid almost ever. We lost a ton of money, but I wouldn't change anything about it. Such a growing experience. It's just rad to have. I always think back to that.

Speaker 4 (00:24:39):

You have to put in that time, in my opinion as a band,

(00:24:43):

It's the same exact concept as being an intern at a studio or being in the mail room at a corporation or whatever. It's just you have to do that entry level shit and grow that hair on your balls in order to be able to actually handle real situations when they come up. When you're in a bigger band. I've noticed the situations that come up don't get any less bad. They actually get worse and the stakes are way higher. And I think that only, I've only really seen bands who have gone through a really good DIY touring phase, really be able to handle that in a mature way.

Speaker 3 (00:25:22):

Sure, definitely. Yeah, I totally agree with you on that one. And then so after, I guess that whole thing with the tour with them, at that point, I remember specifically sitting in our rehearsal room, which was the shitty dungeon AC room of the studio because I'm a partner with my dad in the studio. And that was the rule was we can get a free rehearsal room and I can get a free rehearsal room in my own studio. But wait, wait, wait. Okay.

Speaker 4 (00:25:52):

So alright, so I heard your dad has a sick on it house.

Speaker 3 (00:25:57):

How did you hear that?

Speaker 4 (00:26:00):

I am thorough.

Speaker 3 (00:26:02):

That's pretty amazing. You should see it at Christmas time. It has like 80,000 Christmas lights on it.

Speaker 4 (00:26:06):

Yeah, I heard it sick. It's

Speaker 3 (00:26:07):

Kind of ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (00:26:08):

I do my research. So you guys went in on the studio together?

Speaker 3 (00:26:13):

Yeah, I mean I was just fresh out of college and I had actually in the beginning asked him about, because he has a rental property where he rents out the house to a bunch of tenants and stuff like that. So I was like, Hey, maybe we can get another one in the same area and I could live there so I don't have to live home and I could pay you back with the money I get from the other tenants and blah, blah, blah. So everybody wins. And he was like, I don't really want to do that for you. I don't really want you to do that in life. And I was like, okay. He's like, I'd be more interested if you wanted to do a business thing. So I was like, all right. So I started looking at businesses and then the studio thing, it all happened at the same time. So we went in on the business together and he's kind of like the silent partner. I just do everything. But that was the deal was we were allowed to have a free practice room, but it had to be the shittiest and all the rooms, the walls were concrete and it just sounded terrible, especially for that kind of music.

Speaker 4 (00:27:09):

So is your dad a musician or just a good dad?

Speaker 3 (00:27:12):

He's just a really good dude. He knows nothing about music. If I asked him who Freddie Mercury was, he wouldn't have a clue anything. He knows nothing about music,

Speaker 4 (00:27:20):

But he knows about buying property.

Speaker 3 (00:27:22):

Yes, he knows about business. Cool. And he was cool. He trusted me in the whole thing because it's a very foreign thing for him to invest in a music studio. So yeah, it worked out really well though for both of us. Well,

Speaker 4 (00:27:35):

Just so people listening, really do understand your studio isn't just a recording studio, it's a rehearsal space, video studio and audio studio, right?

Speaker 3 (00:27:44):

Yeah, it's a 7,000 square foot spot in a building and it's got almost 20 rooms in there. Most of them in the back half of the studio are monthly rooms where bands will rent per month and they'll be under leases for that. And then there's an hourly room where bands can come in and jam by the hour with fully loaded gear and everything. Then we have the really nice looking live room and control room, and we're working on the studio B right now because we just have too much work right now. So

Speaker 4 (00:28:14):

Do you ever have noise issues?

Speaker 3 (00:28:16):

Oh yeah. Yeah. That's my life noise.

Speaker 4 (00:28:20):

So does it bleed over into the live room or control room?

Speaker 3 (00:28:24):

Well, with some of the rooms that are adjacent to the live room, we try to schedule them accordingly. So if there's a session going on, we won't schedule an hourly rehearsal or something like that. So we try to combat that. But we're under a gym, so it's always something, and it never ever makes it onto a record. You never ever go and go, Hey, wow, you know what? I think I hear some footsteps or something. It's just never, especially the type of music that we do. There

Speaker 4 (00:28:50):

Was a place like that here in Atlanta that it has since closed, but it was the spot where the Atlanta bands, the ones that you know about Seven Dust and all those bands would rehearse. And there were a few really huge rooms. And then of course there's the small rooms with added studio there. And yeah, the studio, it was almost like, you may as well have just set up a studio in a band's rehearsal space while they were practicing.

Speaker 3 (00:29:21):

It's not that bad. It's more of a thing for the musicians who aren't used to it. Obviously the live room is mostly concrete slab on the foundation of the building, so there's nothing on the sides of it. There's only that one room that we schedule the hourly stuff with, so that's pretty good. But it's like the gym is constantly annoying the shit out of me and us them, we blast metal all day up there, so I can't imagine what it's like for their parents that come in and just like, oh my God, what's happening down there? I can

Speaker 4 (00:29:57):

Only imagine.

Speaker 3 (00:29:58):

Yeah, because some of these bands crank really loud, but we make it work. Haven't had any complaints really except for the odd stare when it happens. They're like, what is that? I'm like, don't worry about it, it's nothing.

Speaker 4 (00:30:11):

So you had the shittiest room of all for

Speaker 3 (00:30:13):

Free? We had the shittiest room, and I remember we were just jamming and we really looked up to Diller at that point, all of us in the band. And we were just saying if we could ever just play a show, open a show with them or something, or maybe do a tour, that would be it. We can stop after that. That would be the best thing that we could do with this level of band. And then we did that tour, which was amazing for us actually playing in front of a packed house every night. Not major big venues, but packed room with Dillinger Energy is insane.

Speaker 4 (00:30:46):

It's still a thousand cap rooms and 1500 cap.

Speaker 3 (00:30:50):

Yeah, yeah, sure. I think the tour that we did with them was a smaller tour where we were doing smaller clubs and stuff like that, but it was unnerving how intense it was,

Speaker 4 (00:31:01):

I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (00:31:02):

Yeah. So then when we got home, we played one coming home show with a really killer band called Dysrhythmia, and it was a good show and it was still, but it wasn't the same. It was just like, oh man, we just did this awesome thing. And now we're back to the local circuit thing.

Speaker 4 (00:31:18):

I've played with them.

Speaker 3 (00:31:19):

They're awesome. Colin is unreal as a musician.

Speaker 4 (00:31:22):

Yeah, a long time ago. So yeah, you were like, man, if it ain't a real tour, fuck it. Well,

Speaker 3 (00:31:28):

It was just like we got spoiled and then we were kind of out of gas at that point anyway, so we were just like, let's just call it because it was such a good high point, let's just not bother with it anymore. So we just not broke up, but we just decided to just not do it anymore. And then I just stayed in contact with the guys, especially Ben, who's, like I said, one of my best friends, he lives really local to me too. And over the years they were doing their thing and then just within the last year or so the guitar player was leaving after they toured with Nine Inch Nails and Sound Garden. And so then I was just joking, not even serious, I was just like, do you want me to play the parts? I didn't even think I could, honestly, it's super difficult stuff. And I was just, just a joke. And then he was like, you want to? And I was like, yeah, maybe let me think about it. And then he was like, okay. So then we started the audition process, which was really tough and it lasted a really long time, especially I had the studio going in tandem. I didn't know how to handle both of those things. And I'm still working it out, but I have good help at the studio, so it's pretty easy.

Speaker 4 (00:32:41):

I remember seeing you freak out online a couple times about the pressure of having to learn those songs.

Speaker 3 (00:32:48):

Yeah, they were hard man. And it's not like there's sheet music for it or anything. It's not like I could just pick up a tab and try to figure it out. It's all by ear and just, it's all insane. Yeah, it is tough. And I don't think, I'm not even just joking, I don't think I'm that great of a guitar player. I think I'm good. So it took a lot of hours, a lot of hours.

Speaker 4 (00:33:12):

So can you describe your process for learning this stuff? Because I don't know, learning Dillinger stuff seems like you'd really have to break it down into micro sections. And at least the way I would probably approach it is to just break it down as much as possible and memorize a tiny thing and then another, and then sometime in the next 10 years, I would know the whole song.

Speaker 3 (00:33:35):

That's exactly what I did though. I just tried to expediate that really quickly. I remember the first time I heard This is song Prancer Off the last record, the intro, the first time I heard it and had Ben play it for me in person. I didn't understand what was happening. I couldn't follow it at all. And I was like lamenting learning. I was like, oh, this is going to be terrible. And I sat down with the track and I just, like you said, I looped the first four or five notes until I got the rhythm. And then I would just finally get that after 10, 20 minutes and then I would add in the next five notes and then I would go back and play the 10 notes and I would just keep adding to this piece and eventually I would get a song. So you got a song eventually? Yeah, it took forever. And then I would play in front of Ben and be like, how close am I? And then he would correct me on what I was wrong and such and such, but that that's the process.

Speaker 4 (00:34:23):

Now does he know music terminology or is he just one of those dudes who plays it? He hears it and

Speaker 3 (00:34:30):

Yeah, I mean he knows it well enough, but he's definitely more of a feel player than he's a technical schooled guy. There's definitely those guys that come from the jazz kind of vibe and can cite every mode of every scale. And I

Speaker 4 (00:34:47):

Mean, would he be able to tell you this isn't seven eight going a seven, eight emphasis on the four and the six or something?

Speaker 3 (00:34:54):

No. Okay. I don't think so. Not to say that he couldn't, but he's usually not that kind of person he writes.

Speaker 4 (00:34:59):

But that's not how the music was explained to you.

Speaker 3 (00:35:02):

No, no. And actually that's where my background is because from my old drummer and that band who taught me everything was very rigorous in the whole rhythm thing and time signature thing. We would write out all our parts notation wise and stuff, and that's where I come from. So when I was going to Dillinger, I would ask them, is this on the anda of the seven? Or where is it in the phrase not locking it or something. And it was hard for them to get that across to me. They were just like, you got to feel it. I was like, damnit. So they're just naturally better and I need the rule book and they just are the rule book kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (00:35:39):

That's really kind of fascinating to me because that's kind of freaky actually to just kind of feel that kind of music. What kind of wires need to be like, I don't want to say crossed, because Dylan J's an awesome band and Ben's clearly a brilliant dude and cool. So I don't want to say crossed because crossed bad, but something in the wiring is different for sure, to just be able to feel that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:36:10):

Yeah, I mean even the first time I heard Dillinger, my band at the time was getting into them and they had told me, you got to get the CD calculating Infinity. So I went out to the store. I didn't want to be the guy that was like, no, I'm not going to listen to this. So I went to the store and I bought the CD and whatever store it was FYE or something and put it in my car and just started listening to it and I hated it. I was like, I don't understand what is happening. It just sounds like a mess. So I gave it away to another friend. I was like, I don't want this. I just can't get into this. And then it wasn't until years later where I tried it again and my ear had, I wasn't into super heavy music at that time. I think that the heavy thing I had listened to was Poison The Well or something, which was not that.

Speaker 5 (00:36:55):

No.

Speaker 3 (00:36:56):

Yeah. So my ear wasn't there yet. And then so gradually the guys kept shoving more heavy music down my throat and stuff and we would get crazier with the band. And then slowly I tried it again, listening to it in a year or two and I was like, oh my God, what the hell is wrong with me? This is unreal. I still don't understand it, but so I can actually hear it now.

Speaker 4 (00:37:18):

So how long would it take you to learn a song?

Speaker 3 (00:37:21):

Oh God. It's tough because it was like I would work in the studio all day for 10 hours or something, and then I would come home at 10:00 PM and I would have to spend from 10 to two in the morning trying to learn a song. I was just so tired.

Speaker 4 (00:37:37):

That's great to know. I just want to talk about that for a little bit, just how much work that actually took, because I get asked that quite a bit, how do I get into a bigger band? Or this band says they're auditioning, do you think you could talk to them? For me, it's like, yeah, right. But I think that a lot of dudes who think they are committed think that they could possibly get into a bigger band. And I find that a lot of people, and this isn't their fault, they just don't know any different, but a lot of people don't understand how much work it actually does take. And yeah, it could be that you have to work 10 hour days in the studio, have your ears and brain completely shot, and then go home and practice for four hours.

Speaker 3 (00:38:23):

Yeah, yeah. It's the only option I had that I was auditioning against another guy. I won't say who he is, but he was in a good band and he was a good guitar player too, and I was just like, that kept me going. It's just in a way, if I didn't get in because I wasn't good enough or something like that, that would be acceptable. But if I didn't get in because I lost to somebody else, I would be so pissed. That kind of just kept me going too. I was just like, I really want to do this. And everybody around me was super supportive too, which was really helpful. All the guys at the studio that I would like, I didn't want to tell many people. You don't want to say, oh, I might join this band.

Speaker 4 (00:39:08):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, don't want to do that.

Speaker 3 (00:39:12):

So I told a few close friends and stuff like that, what was going on in my life, and everybody was super supportive and they're like, dude, you have to do this. So that really just reaffirmed it. And actually Will Putney did too. I spoke to him.

Speaker 4 (00:39:23):

I know I was part of that conversation. You know what? The fact that you were hesitant about it. I've actually seen that before a few times. I helped a few dudes leave their local bands and get real gigs in the past, just when I would know that a touring band lost a guitar player, if I had recorded a guitar player that I knew needed to, just needed to get beyond the local scene.

(00:39:52):

Like Ryan Knight for instance, who just left Black Dahlia, but I don't know if you're familiar with his playing, but he's godly and he was always godly. It was just one of these things where it's like, this dude does not need to be in a local band. But the thing is that every time that I've tried to do that, dudes are hesitant to leave their bands or hesitant to take it on. So when I saw that you were a little hesitant or not sure about it, I was like, oh yeah, I've seen this before. You got to fucking do it. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:40:23):

You really do. It's, it's tough. I guess I kind of thrive in putting myself in really tough situations in all the bands I've played in the first one, the one after that, which was called Mothership, which was a crazy Prague band with four keyboards and all kinds of ridiculous. It was kind of yes, on crack in a, and I just always put myself in these bands where I'm the shittiest member. That's good. I get better just because of my surroundings. Same thing with Dillinger, playing with Billy, the drummer is unreal. And I've been spoiled. I've always played with really, really killer drummers, but man, it's super humbling and you're pretty much constantly playing catch up because those guys are so talented and it's raw because in the studio we see talent all the time, but when you see raw natural talent, it's just like, holy shit, these guys can play and they don't need to know all the rules. Like I said, they create them. It's crazy.

Speaker 4 (00:41:25):

I think if you make it a goal in life to work with people that are smarter than you and play with musicians that are better than you, you're probably going to do okay.

Speaker 3 (00:41:33):

It seems to work for me. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (00:41:35):

It's worked for me too.

Speaker 3 (00:41:36):

That's how I got into college essentially. The audio program, I wasn't supposed to get in the program, but I weasel my way in and I went to the first class, even though I wasn't in the program or something, and eventually they were like, fine, you can stay. It works.

Speaker 4 (00:41:52):

It does. I mean, let's talk about that too, about how many different things you juggle, because a lot of guys who listen to this podcast and want to go pro, they have to, they're going to school and they're working a job or they're working a full-time job and all that, or they have a wife and a job and they also want to do music. So you balanced both the rehearsal business, your studio, plus being a good enough musician to get that gig and tour and all that. How do you go about balancing all this kind of stuff?

Speaker 3 (00:42:37):

It's definitely one of the hardest things for sure. I know my girlfriend Christina has, but like I said, she's super supportive with everything I do, but it's definitely not easy, especially on us. Sometimes it's just like sometimes I just don't have enough time to be home. And that's kind of a bummer for both of us, obviously, but it's hard to wrangle it, it all because early on in your career, you definitely want to take every record. You don't want to turn things down. Even if you don't have the time, you still don't want to say no. You still want to be like, yeah, I'll figure it out somehow. So I was just taking on

Speaker 2 (00:43:07):

Too much. You're very much like that,

Speaker 3 (00:43:10):

But you become big enough where you can get help and outside and outsource things, certain things here and there, and you can kind of manage time better. Where for me, for a long time I didn't want anybody in my studio but myself. So I never had an intern. I never had an assistant for a long time, and I slowly by necessity, just had to have somebody else there and I had to let somebody in my circle. So I have a couple guys now at the studio that kind of helped me. They're working there right now doing a bunch of projects and stuff. So it's very hands off right now. It's awesome. I do have a lot of projects to do, but they're also doing a lot of stuff as well, which makes it easier for me to go home on time now, where I used to just be really bad at it now I can kind of get home for dinner. So it's definitely, it's a learning process. And still on these tours, it's definitely, sometimes it's a mess trying to deal with people calling me in Mexico or something on my cell phone to schedule a rehearsal that night at the studio, and it's a time difference. And trying to get that on the calendar and relay that information to the other guys, it's not exactly the easiest thing.

Speaker 4 (00:44:18):

And any pro tips for that,

Speaker 3 (00:44:20):

Oh man, get a calendar and live by your calendar essentially. It's really what I do.

Speaker 4 (00:44:26):

Which one do you use?

Speaker 3 (00:44:27):

I just use Google Calendar because I know it's either you're an Apple guy or you're a Google person. I just happen to be a Google person, and it's just like I need to have, if it's not on my calendar, I'll probably forget it going to happen. It

Speaker 4 (00:44:40):

Doesn't exist.

Speaker 3 (00:44:43):

So even, yeah, we know the feeling. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure everybody here does it. It's tough. And then I've also done a lot of work behind the stage too, like teching for bands. So I really feel like it's important for guys who are trying to come up in this world to not look away at other opportunities. If somebody comes up with you and asks you to do something, just whatever it is, a gig, just do it. It doesn't matter what it is, even if you're not qualified. I was talking to someone yesterday who works with a lot of really big bands between the Barry and Me and stuff like that, and he's doing a gig soon and he thinks he's maybe not qualified to do it, but he knows the deal. He's been on tons of tours, and he is like, I just got to learn it. So he came in the studio and just reeding all my drum sets and tuning them and learning how to do that. Just putting in the hours, just he knows he can't do the job maybe that great yet, but he's going to take the job and he's going to learn as he goes. And that's the attitude you have to have. Just

Speaker 2 (00:45:38):

Throw yourself into the deep end. Absolutely. Well,

Speaker 6 (00:45:41):

That's make him great at it too. It's just that sort of conquering attitude and execution really. Well,

Speaker 4 (00:45:47):

Yes, if you say no, you probably aren't going to get the opportunity again. I actually went on tour teching for a couple people, and the first time that it ever even came up was literally two days before the thing. And I've never been a guitar tech before. I never worked with Floyd Rose guitars and just kind of taught myself everything and just figured I've toured enough. I know what guitar techs do, I'm going to fucking do it. And it was scary, but it's a good thing to do. But you've teched for bands like the Deftones and stuff,

Speaker 3 (00:46:26):

Right?

Speaker 4 (00:46:28):

That's no small deal,

Speaker 3 (00:46:30):

Especially because I learned guitar pretty much from when I was growing up from Stefan's riffs. So when he asked me to help him out, I didn't know what to say. It was so weird. He's like, can you help me, man? I was like, how can I help you?

Speaker 4 (00:46:46):

How does that happen? How did,

Speaker 3 (00:46:49):

I guess it goes kind of back to, well, pretty much all the things in my musical career, I pretty much attribute to hanging around Ben. He's also an older brother in a way. I have an older brother who's cool, but Ben's the older brother I wanted. So he's like, every time we're doing something on tour or I'm teching or something like that, hang out. He's really good about introducing me to whoever's in the room, whatever big deal guys in that room. He never forgets. He always makes it a point to just even before I was in the band and stuff, and he's always bringing me into these situations that I would never ever be in. So I remember specifically this one night, we were talking about deaf homes were coming in town in New Jersey, and I was like, do you want to go? Are you going to go?

(00:47:43):

He usually goes to the local shows and stuff too. He was like, yeah, I have a plus one if you want to go. And I was super fried on the weekend. I just did a bunch of sessions and I was just like, I didn't really want to go out. And I actually had the conversation with my girlfriend. I was like, do you think I should go? And she was like, do you want to go? I was like, I don't know. I'm kind of tired. I just want to relax. And then I kind just made myself go. I was just like, not that I shouldn't want to go, but I was just super tired and I was like, I'm going to regret it if I don't go. So I went, and then after the show Ben's like, do you want to go meet the guys and hang out backstage and stuff?

(00:48:18):

And I was like, yeah, totally. I'm a huge mega fan. So I actually met Stefan once before when he first got his ax effects. I was using the ax effects when it first came out and when he had got it, they were on tour with Dillinger and the guys in Dillinger told him that they have a friend in New Jersey that knows the thing in and out. So I went in one day to help Stefan get acclimated to it a little bit and stuff. But that was very brief. And then so at this show in Montclair, New Jersey, I met him again and he was just kind of sitting on the steps and he just looked kind of sad. So we were talking, I didn't think he was going to remember me because someone that sees that many people every day, I wouldn't hold it against him to just not remember who I am.

Speaker 4 (00:49:05):

But you brought some value into his life probably with that ax effects.

Speaker 3 (00:49:09):

Yeah. I mean, I was hoping he would remember me, but honestly, I've had dudes rockstar me before that I've worked in the studio with on a first name basis next to each other, and I'm like, whatever. So I don't expect anything from anybody. So he did. He remembered me totally. And then he was like, dude, can we go talk outside on the balcony? I was like, alright, cool. So then he told me about how he was struggling with the ax effects as a unit, and he needed some help to hone in his sound, and I didn't know what to say. It's like, dude, your sound is unreal. You have a very defining sound. I can't possibly help you. Your sound better than anybody. But he asked for my help personally, and he's like, I'll fly you out to my house and we can work on these patches and blah, blah, blah together. And he's like, what are you doing in a couple of weeks? I was like, whatever the fuck you want, what am I going to say? Oh, I'm going busy if

Speaker 6 (00:50:11):

You twist my arm.

Speaker 3 (00:50:13):

So I went out there and we went over his stuff and started the relationship then. And then after we worked on the patches for a bunch of the records, he was like, would you want to take these out on the road with me and work on 'em and tweak them out on the road? Obviously the stage environment is different than a control environment. And so I was like, yeah, of course, definitely. And then so we went on the road. I remember standing outside the tour bus and he was like, all right, man. So they have a really big crew. They have one tour bus for the band and then a whole tour bus for the crew,

Speaker 5 (00:50:47):

Which

Speaker 3 (00:50:48):

Is really awesome. That means that they actually care about their crew members too. So he was like, do you want to be on the band bus or the crew bus? He was like a trick question. I was like, really? You're giving me the option? I was like, I definitely want to be on the band bus. He's like, okay. I was just making sure. So that was so unreal. Being

Speaker 4 (00:51:09):

In that environment, that's kind of like a badge of honor.

Speaker 3 (00:51:13):

It was unreal. And at the same time, I could tell everybody in the crew is super nice, but I could tell that they were like, you're fucking dickhead. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (00:51:24):

That'll happen.

Speaker 3 (00:51:25):

But I mean, everybody was super cool and that tour, everybody was super helpful. Like I said, I'm used to being the new guy and I'm used to not knowing what I'm doing. So everybody's very, very helpful with telling me what to do and how people like their stuff and getting acclimated to everything. One of my favorite dudes on the crew was Aaron Harris who used to play in isis. He's,

Speaker 4 (00:51:48):

Man, I feel so bad for them,

Speaker 3 (00:51:51):

We can't even talk about their band anymore.

Speaker 4 (00:51:53):

I know. It's like you say, used to play for isis. It's like he's in Syria, so Alright. Yeah, so he used to play guitar in ISIS

Speaker 3 (00:52:03):

Drums.

Speaker 4 (00:52:03):

Oh, drums, okay. Sorry.

Speaker 3 (00:52:04):

Aaron Turner was the guitar player singer guy.

Speaker 4 (00:52:06):

So this is Aaron Harris?

Speaker 3 (00:52:08):

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:52:08):

Okay.

Speaker 3 (00:52:09):

Super smart guy. Also another engineering production guy. Does a lot of good stuff and he was just, he's really quiet manner, but he's so smart and so helpful and the way he tuned Abe's drum kit every night. I was just watching him like, dude, can you teach me that? Because you do it so well and I mean Abe plays like a monster anyway, but just learning all those little things here and there. It's definitely helpful along the road.

Speaker 4 (00:52:37):

And I'm sure that that's made you a more valuable band member too.

Speaker 3 (00:52:41):

Yeah, I mean I've always wanted to, if any way I can add value to it, something I try. I told the band where maybe I'll fall short in this area or something like that. Maybe I can make up for another area. We can use my studio for whatever we need to. Just the other night we were there working on some kind of a new project with, there's this crazy string trio in New York City area that did a couple dillinger covers and it's insane sounding. They covered a song called 43% Burnt. What's that song with strings?

Speaker 2 (00:53:18):

Nice. That's crazy.

Speaker 3 (00:53:19):

It sounds great. I mean it sounds insane but it sounds great. So we brought them in and we started jamming on just some crazy stuff the other night and I don't know what it's going to turn into, but it's definitely cool.

Speaker 4 (00:53:32):

So I just thought of this, I just have to say that, sorry for taking a left turn, but before we forget weird way that the mind associates things, we need to talk about Gear Gods for a second.

Speaker 3 (00:53:47):

Are we going to talk about what we talked about earlier?

Speaker 4 (00:53:49):

Yeah, a little bit of it. So wait, wait. Is there anything else to say about that string trio other than that's insane that they would try to cover that

Speaker 3 (00:53:59):

They're super talented. Again, being in the room with them, it's just like, I don't belong here. I really do not belong in the room with these guys, but it's an honor to be there and just seeing them shred and it's weird. I had not heard the track we were working on before at all, and then to be thrown into that is another thing. I'm not really great at improv, but I try to hang and it was just like, alright, we're going to play the song now with these guys who are, again, everybody in the room. Ben was in the room and Billy the drummer was in the room. I just felt super outclassed. But

Speaker 4 (00:54:33):

That's a good thing though. It's

Speaker 3 (00:54:35):

A good spot to be in and it's the worst spot to be in, but it's also a great spot to be in because you kind watch this magic happen in front of you all the time.

Speaker 4 (00:54:42):

I just feel like that's the kind of attitude you need if you're going to keep on advancing and keep on being valuable to other people. You need to kind of feel humbled or else I feel like you'll get cocky and lazy. That's just human nature. I mean, I've said this before, but the best example I can think of is that Jeff Omi still takes guitar lessons. He feels like he's still got shit to learn. If he didn't think that way, he probably wouldn't be as good as he is.

Speaker 3 (00:55:11):

Right. Alex go the same way. He still takes guitar lessons too all the time.

Speaker 4 (00:55:14):

Does he? That makes

Speaker 3 (00:55:15):

Figures.

Speaker 6 (00:55:17):

No. Who doesn't take guitar lessons? Vey. I wonder. He's the lesson.

Speaker 4 (00:55:22):

Yeah. I wonder if he's ever taken a lesson in his life.

Speaker 6 (00:55:25):

That's a good question.

Speaker 4 (00:55:26):

I kind of doubt it. So, alright, let's talk about Alex for a second.

Speaker 3 (00:55:30):

It's going to jump right into it.

Speaker 4 (00:55:32):

Yeah, we have to because we're running out of time and this just needs to be said. Alex Nala from Gear Gods. I learned something amazing about him today. He's just like everywhere at once. Omniscient, omnipresent. So you know that we mix crit him last month and we were particularly brutal. We didn't know it was Alex from Gear Gods while we were doing it, but he was a real good sport about it. But then he won one of our giveaways, which I just found out today. Which one did he win?

Speaker 2 (00:56:05):

He got a gift certificate and he used it to buy monitor stands.

Speaker 4 (00:56:10):

Yeah, so the Sweetwater one.

Speaker 2 (00:56:12):

Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:56:12):

Yeah, so I guess that was our consolation prize for getting trashed on the mix crit.

Speaker 3 (00:56:22):

Can I go back and watch this mixed crit? Yeah,

Speaker 4 (00:56:25):

You can listen to it. You can listen to it, yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:56:26):

Okay. Send me that link afterwards.

Speaker 4 (00:56:28):

I will.

Speaker 6 (00:56:29):

He had to work on his harps accord. Man, it was rough. I was like, Stradivari black diamond or get the fuck out.

Speaker 2 (00:56:36):

It was like this band has a vocalist, but have you heard the harps accord?

Speaker 6 (00:56:42):

I met you through Alex too. At Nam, right?

Speaker 3 (00:56:45):

Yeah, at that

Speaker 6 (00:56:46):

Pool party. That's where I was going next. Alex is the center of the world right now. What's going on, man?

Speaker 3 (00:56:51):

It's a really weird place we live in, that's for sure.

Speaker 4 (00:56:54):

Yeah, so he introduced you guys on Nam, which is why you're now on the show.

Speaker 2 (00:56:59):

Thanks Alex.

Speaker 4 (00:57:00):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:57:01):

Thanks.

Speaker 4 (00:57:01):

Yeah,

Speaker 6 (00:57:02):

Dude. Alex

Speaker 2 (00:57:02):

Is awesome. Yeah, we were hanging out with Alex at the, what was it called? It was an after party by the pool

Speaker 3 (00:57:09):

Revolver party, right?

Speaker 2 (00:57:11):

Yeah, the revolver party at Nam, at the hotel near convention center, and so yeah, that's when I actually met you, Kevin.

Speaker 3 (00:57:19):

Good

Speaker 2 (00:57:20):

Times

Speaker 3 (00:57:20):

A Are you going to finish that anecdote?

Speaker 2 (00:57:22):

No.

Speaker 4 (00:57:23):

Oh, you're not. Is that it? I saw Alex A. Little bit later too. He's every single place at once, but I think that Alex wasn't supposed to introduce you guys.

Speaker 3 (00:57:38):

He introduced us in kind of a weird manner. It would've been one thing if he was like, Hey, because I know him from the gear guys. Dudes. I usually roll with them at Nam. We're all good friends. Metal sucks. No injection. Yeah,

Speaker 6 (00:57:52):

Those guys are awesome.

Speaker 3 (00:57:52):

Yeah. Yeah, they're They're good bros. We love them.

(00:57:56):

So you guys are standing around and you had a little circle going on and I just had walked in because my flight just got in and Alex was like, Hey Kevin, this is Joey SGIs and obviously I know who you are through the internet. I've never met you personally up until then. And then that would've been fine. That would've been enough of an introduction. Like, oh, hey man, nice to meet you. But then he drops. You reviewed that plugin of his and I was like, oh yeah, that's right. I gave it an indifferent kind of review at the time, so it was super awkward and then it was like, oh hey.

Speaker 2 (00:58:37):

No, it's funny. The reason why that happened is we were talking about it right before you walked up to our circle.

Speaker 3 (00:58:43):

Oh really?

Speaker 2 (00:58:43):

Yeah, I was talking about Gear God's, their involvement with JST up to that point, and I was like, oh yeah, and you guys remember that review where there was this super weird sound clip that caught everyone off guard?

Speaker 4 (00:58:58):

I was like, yeah. So

Speaker 6 (00:58:59):

Perfect timing. Perfect timing.

Speaker 4 (00:59:00):

I guess that just goes back to Alex being omniscient and omnipresent because you talked about the review and then he conjured Kevin to just show up.

Speaker 6 (00:59:10):

There's something bad. This guy. Yeah, he was a great addition to the circle.

Speaker 4 (00:59:13):

Yeah, there you go. But you guys clearly got over any weirdness.

Speaker 3 (00:59:21):

Oh yeah. I mean, it doesn't bother me. I'm sure it doesn't bother Joe either.

Speaker 2 (00:59:26):

No, I've been a fan of Dillinger, and so for me it was a pleasure just to be talking to anybody associated with him. So it's pretty cool, but

Speaker 3 (00:59:36):

Awesome.

Speaker 2 (00:59:36):

Then to find out that he did the review. I was like, oh, okay, cool. I didn't care if the review was bad or good. I was just like,

Speaker 3 (00:59:44):

I didn't know at the time. Almost

Speaker 6 (00:59:45):

Pushed him in

Speaker 3 (00:59:46):

The pool. I had no idea. I just was super caught off guard by, I thought maybe you had hated me for the review. I don't know. I have no idea. And then he was just like, Hey, you reviewed this plugin asshole. And I was like, oh, hey, nice to meet you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):

Maybe if the plugin hadn't have done very well, then maybe I would've pushed you into the pool. But no, it's all good.

Speaker 6 (01:00:10):

Well, you can't take yourself too serious. You got to take everything with a grain of salt and try to have a little bit of fun with it. Exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):

Well, it's not like you were like, fuck JST, they shouldn't even be in business.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):

No, it's a good place. Still plug. We push into the pool for sure. It's not like a bad plugin at all. We still use it at Studio. Actually, you know what? We haven't used it in a while. I don't have a 64 bit version. Oh,

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):

Okay. I'll send you that to you today. Sweet.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):

That's cool. You still use it?

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):

Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):

Alright, well then that's our shout out to Gear Gods. What do you do with them, by the way?

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):

I don't know. I'm kind of like the weird redheaded stepchild of that crew. I guess. Really good friends with Frank from Metal Injection. We hang out on a regular basis all the time, but the other guys now, we started doing some new stuff with Gear Rod, it's called Ask a Producer. I guess they're trying to get more, and I think you did some stuff like that at one point, didn't you?

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):

For them

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):

Like in association or on their site or something?

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):

I've done so many different things with them. Yeah, I've done that sort of thing and I've made a few videos for them that were kind of like that a while ago with this for this chick named Zena Coda.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):

Oh, I know Zena.

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):

Yeah. But it ended up for Gear Gods I believe. I don't, man, I've done so much stuff for people involved with the Blast Beat Network that I almost don't remember all the specifics.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):

So I guess we have some reviews that we've done with them and then, well actually, I could probably wrap this in. I don't know how much more time we have, but myself and Jesse already from Binary Code, were actually maybe a year or two ago, probably two years ago by now, we're going to start a website for gear reviews and local music. And we had this awesome layout and everything planned and we had almost just finished it and started really going delving into it pretty hard. And then Gear Gods launched their site immediately after we had started getting some ground on it. So we were like, well, we can't compete with that. There's no way. So we just dropped the whole thing and then I started talking to those guys about that stuff. So we started doing some reviews and stuff like that on Gear Gods, but then they came down to the studio for the first time, and it's weird. That's how I met my Vivier rep, who's the guitar company that I used for Dillinger.

(01:02:34):

I met him through Gear Gods, and that's how I got hooked up with that. And also that's how Frank for Metal Injection came down into the studio and now we use the studio all the time. We do this thing for, actually in February, it's black metal history, so we do these videos once a year. Last year there's this necro sexual guy who was a black metal dude who dresses in the corpse pane. He's like, he's a hilarious dude and person. And it was pretty much, I played in that skit. I played the engineer producer who had to work on this guy's record, and he was like the worst client. Impossible. If you watch the video, we're setting up the drum set and the mics and I'm setting up a couple mics in the room. He's like, no, only one mic.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):

That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):

Yeah, we set up the guitar stack and out of all these amps, and he just keeps, we're dialing in the sound. He just keeps adding more and more. Treble just keeps going and it sounds terrible. Eventually it just starts turning into white noise on the fader. But that's kind of the thing. We just did another one of those for this month. It's going to become now where now that we did his record finally, and I thought it would never have to see him again. He shows up in my backyard with gear and he wants to do a festival at my house. So I agree to have this festival with him and the condition that I never have to see him again, and it goes in places. I never thought it was going to go that day, but it gets really weird.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):

That's great. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):

It should be fun. I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know what it's going to look like, but I'm assuming Frank did a good job with it,

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):

Fucking Frank. I hope he did.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):

Yeah,

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):

I'm sure he did. Well, it sounds like you've got your hands in everything.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):

You can try to be busy.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):

Honestly, I think it's my

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):

Motto.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):

Yeah. I think this was actually a really good networking episode because literally every single thing that you said that you talked about here, besides obviously working your ass off, all of the different things that you talked about being able to achieve and be a part of all result from. Obviously you're great at networking,

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):

I guess I am.

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):

Well, the reason I'm bringing that up is because a lot of people don't understand how it works and so are real punishers about it, and it is a hard thing to try to explain to people that you just kind of have to be around and be cool and be around long enough for people to trust you and just keep being cool and give them some value when they need it and don't fuck up.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):

Right. It's funny that that term Punisher has made it so far. I would love to know where the origin of that is. I remember

Speaker 6 (01:05:16):

It's the best term.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):

It's amazing. And I don't know where I was when I first heard, I mean, I do remember where I was. I was actually at a Dillinger show and I was teching for them. We're on tour with them, and someone was punishing someone and they had brought that tournament. I was like, what does that mean? That sounds so awesome. I want to know what that means. And then I still hear it all over the place now, and I am still in circles where my intern was in the room and someone brought it up and then he was like, what does that word mean? And I'm like, oh, this is awesome. He doesn't know what the word means yet. So then we tried to explain it to him and he says it in all the wrong context. No, that's not what it means.

Speaker 6 (01:05:53):

Tell him to go stand at the merth booth for a half hour and he'll know what's up. Exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:05:58):

Oh dude, Punisher. It is just the best way to describe

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):

It really is

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):

That thing. Yeah, I've heard other words to describe, but nothing works quite like Punisher. It really is punishing to be in the presence of that. It just hurts.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):

Yeah, it definitely does. And you can't say anything like what You put someone aside like, dude, come on, relax. It

Speaker 6 (01:06:26):

Gives me, there were a lot of punishers in South America, man. I got cornered by this one guy and he was spitting in my face and screaming at me because the proximity there is a lot closer between people. And he was right in my face. I could touch him with the two or three fingers, and he was just screaming at me about, dude is this band fucking shit? They're fucking noise. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Is it good or is it bad? I didn't understand. And it went on for like 45 minutes until I had security. Remove him.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):

Yeah. Don't be a punisher. That's the moral of the story. But

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):

I feel like in South America too, they're a little bit crazier than most places about guitar picks and memorabilia type things. Oh

Speaker 4 (01:07:04):

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):

They are relentless about it. Not that it's not a big deal to give somebody a guitar pick, but I remember specifically, I didn't have any, or I only had five left for the next show or something. And they were unruly about it and I was like, dude, I really only have five picks left. I need these to play.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):

No, you need to give to a picks to me because I need to remember this moment forever.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):

It's like, whatcha going to? And then it's like, at the time I didn't have a signature pick. I'm like, you can literally buy this on Amazon or any place. It's not,

Speaker 4 (01:07:37):

Not the same. You have not touched it. Yeah. It gets kind of weird, but hey, whatever. Yeah,

Speaker 6 (01:07:42):

Bring extra picks. That's the moral of the story.

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):

Yeah, give them the picks. You get left alone.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):

It's a learning process. I have to buy a ton so I can know half of them will be thrown away. They've

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):

Been marinating on your bus.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):

Yeah. If you ever get surrounded by a bunch of punishers, just throw a bunch of picks across the room and watch 'em scatter away from you. You can duck duck out there.

Speaker 6 (01:08:04):

Oh geez. So good.

Speaker 4 (01:08:06):

All right. Well cool man. Thanks for coming on. You've been a thoroughly awesome guest.

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):

Thanks for having me. And it was good to meet you guys finally in the real world a couple of weeks ago

Speaker 4 (01:08:18):

In the real world of podcasting ether.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):

Yeah. Thanks a lot, Kevin. Thanks for being on the show.

Speaker 4 (01:08:27):

Thanks, man. It's a

Speaker 5 (01:08:28):

Pleasure. Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):

Real

Speaker 4 (01:08:29):

Quick, are there any links or anything you want us to put on here?

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):

Sure. The studio would be cool. It's just www dot backroom studio. It's one of those crazy new things where you don't have to have a.com. I don't understand it yet, but that's a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):

Well, there you go. backdoor.studio back

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):

Back backdoor.com. It is the obviously

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):

Backdoor hot,

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):

The Dillinger site's a no brainer. And then I guess maybe this other one that I started working with this company called Middle Beard Club. So for all middle beard dudes, you can get stuff like that. I know the beard culture is insane right now. I don't understand it necessarily, but it's kind of crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:09:12):

Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):

I'm sure you get it all the time from people.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):

Oh man.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):

The more massive in gnarly your beard looks, the more weirdos come up to you and try to grab it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:22):

I got to say that it makes me uncomfortable. Totally. Like, why are you hitting on me?

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):

That's kind of what it is, man. I've had people just stop me and just be like, Hey man, I don't want to bother you, but I just want to compliment on your really nice beard. It's like, wow. It's so strange.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):

It's kind of like walking up to a girl that in the middle of nowhere and telling her she's got beautiful eyes. It's just weird. Beos.

Speaker 6 (01:09:49):

We'll call 'em.

Speaker 4 (01:09:50):

He's weird

Speaker 6 (01:09:51):

Fucking beos weirdo and beards. Beards

Speaker 4 (01:09:54):

For sure. But it's not just beos man. It's a lot of non bearded people who will come up and confide in me that they don't know how to grow on. It's like, well, don't shave. There's really not much to it. There's definitely not much to it. Just don't.

Speaker 6 (01:10:14):

Just for Mengel the only way.

Speaker 4 (01:10:15):

Yeah, just don't shave. Alright man. Well thanks a lot. Awesome. Talk to you again. Hopefully. Alright

Speaker 6 (01:10:21):

Guys. Take

Speaker 4 (01:10:21):

Care. Alright, you later.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):

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