Fred Archambault: Working with Avenged Sevenfold, Mixing Live TV, Building a Career in Music

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Focus, right supplying hardware and software products used by professional and amateur musicians, which enables the high quality production of music Focus. Right? Sound is everything. And now your host, Joey Sturgis. Joel Wanasek and Eyal Levi. Hey

Speaker 2 (00:00:23):

Everyone, how you doing? I'm Joey Sturgis, and with me as always is Eyal Levi and Joel Wanasek. That's us. Yo, the Grammy nominations came out, which is exciting, I think. Did you guys look at it yet?

Speaker 3 (00:00:39):

I didn't get a chance to look at everything, but I did see two things that made me happy. Number one was that August Burns Red is on there. And then number two, that somebody who is subscribed to what we do also got an engineer nomination.

Speaker 4 (00:00:57):

That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (00:00:58):

Yeah. I'm actually going to go to the Private Producers club right now and find who it is so that we can congratulate him on here. One second. S scrolling. Mr. Jack Mason officially got a Grammy nominee for engineering work on j Cole's 2014 Forest Hills Drive. So congrats Jack Mason.

Speaker 2 (00:01:21):

That is awesome. I did not know that.

Speaker 3 (00:01:24):

Well, he just posted it two hours ago, so I guess he didn't know either.

Speaker 2 (00:01:28):

I hope people start paying more attention than Grammy's. I think they really are trying to make a good effort to really fix what was wrong. I know there was a couple of years in a row where best metal performance was basically a joke, and if you look at the Nomine, absolutely, look at the nominations this year. It's so much better. You've got August Burns Red Circ Lamb of God, seven Dust and Slipknot, and that sounds pretty metal to me. I don't know about you guys, but

Speaker 3 (00:01:55):

Absolutely. I seem to remember that the joke in the metal category started with Metallica many, many years ago when they lost to Jethro to

Speaker 2 (00:02:03):

Right, right. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:02:04):

That was the beginning of the downfall of Metal and the Grammys. But I think that it's good that just the Grammys in general are trying to get it together because music industry needs it and there's so many other things for people to watch, so many other award shows, other types of award shows that people just care about more these days. It's a good thing that the Grammys is trying to get that quality back and become relevant again.

Speaker 2 (00:02:36):

And the other thing I wanted to say was I think a lot of people need to maybe, I know the Grammy makes a really good effort at trying to educate people about how everything works, but things get lost in translation and people only have a short attention span. But people should definitely try and go out and educate themselves on how the Grammys work because there's still a lot of confusion, especially in some of the categories. And for example, I wanted to clear up one of the categories. It's called Best Rock Album. And you'll see in this year's nominations, you've got James Bay sitting next to Slipknot. Now most people are going to look at that and go, what the fuck? But the thing about the Best Rock album is that it's the only category that can cover all heavy types of music. They don't have a best metal album category, they only have a Best Rock album category.

(00:03:26):

And so within that circle or that realm lives metal rock in all forms of that stuff. So that's why you see James Bass sitting next to Slipknot. It's actually correct that those are there because you're representing the different types of music in that part of the world, that part of the music genre. So don't freak out when you see Death Cab for Cutie and Slipknot going up for the same award. It's just simply limited space for categories that can't have Best Rock album, best Hard Rock album, best Heavy Rock album. Best Metal album. Best Speed Metal album. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:04:01):

I think if we're going to talk about the Grammys, we may as well get our guests in here.

Speaker 2 (00:04:05):

Absolutely. And we don't know how to say his last name, but we're going to learn together. Hey,

Speaker 3 (00:04:09):

Welcome to the show, Fred. Thanks

Speaker 5 (00:04:10):

For having me. Alright,

Speaker 3 (00:04:11):

So you were saying that your name is actually super common.

Speaker 5 (00:04:15):

Yeah, the story of the last name. And so being born in Montreal and then growing up in the States, it was a great way of people to make fun of you. So I was doing this record Valiant Thor, and we were wrapping up, I think the band was playing some shows in LA and I went out to go see them and we were on their rv and it was the band myself and their booking agent and this beautiful model by the name of Holiday. Obviously everybody wanted to talk to the model. I'm a married man, so it didn't really matter to me. And the band goes, this is our producer, Fred Archambault. And she was like, her eyes lit up. She goes, oh my God, you're an cebo. And I was like, well yeah, fuck yeah, of course I am. And so she would not stop talking to me, you just feel like a million bucks afterwards. You're like, all right, cool. I still got it. And then literally a few months later, my wife and I are in Montreal and we're walking around and I hadn't been back in a long time and the Tower Records of Montreal is a store called Chenbo Music. And so she thought I was of this family and I was like, oh, that's why she was talking to me.

Speaker 3 (00:05:27):

That explains it for sure.

Speaker 2 (00:05:29):

So for those of you listening who aren't familiar with Fred Archambault, he's worked with bands like Atreyu, avenge Sevenfold, Alice Cooper I Set To Kill, and also, which I learned recently. You did Live Sound for Late Night was Carson Daly. Well,

Speaker 5 (00:05:42):

Yeah, it's not necessarily Live sound. I guess I'll just jump into it real quick with that narrative is I record and mix back at my studio. So basically what the television show is, it's last call with Carson Daily. It's an NBC late night show. And I've been doing it now for about four seasons. And the seasons are kind of cut up into a fall and a spring semester as if you were in school or something. So it's about eight months of work. And the show isn't shot in a traditional studio like Fallon or any of the other late night shows because of the budget. So basically we just roam around LA sometimes New York, sometimes Texas, and we just grab interviews. And then the musical segment is, let's say a band like tomorrow, there's this band on Hollywood Records coming into town. They're playing the Fonda Theater and I roll in with a 48 channel kind mobile pro tool system.

(00:06:37):

I record their show, we film it, and then I bring it back. I usually have a couple of weeks to produce it and tweak it and mix it and get it off. So it's not necessarily live, but it's not like I'm doing live mixing, but I'm doing a live recording as it were. So that's been a really interesting, it's a nice side detour for my career of making records and a r talent and doing all the things that we do. It's just fell in my lap and it's been cool. And it's side note, it's kind of like, I'll say this, I'm not afraid to say it, but it's kind of kept me away from doing some shitty records that I would've taken. There's one band maybe hopefully you guys haven't worked with them, but there's a metal band from LA that's female fronted. And they came to me very early and I was like,

Speaker 3 (00:07:28):

I know exactly who you're talking about.

Speaker 5 (00:07:31):

And I was like, I don't get it. I get it to a certain extent, I wish them luck, but I don't want to be associated with this. They do, well, they kill it, but it's just not my thing. So it it's kind of shielded me and then it's made it, I just take the money from the show and I just reinvested into my career and reinvested into onsite artists. And so it's kind of been a blessing and a curse, but the blessing outweighs the curse as far as workflow. And with that show, I mix about no joke, like 200 songs a year.

Speaker 2 (00:08:02):

Wow. Wow. Plus

Speaker 5 (00:08:03):

That's awesome. My other songs, so I'm up to 300 songs a year plus. So it gets your chops going and that's the cool thing, and I was talking to Joey about it when I saw him out in LA was that's what I love about what you guys are doing. And now branching out with this nail the mix and unstoppable recording bootcamp or website is we all get stuck in these ruts and especially when I'm working with the volume of work that I'm doing, you have your thing, you're like, okay, do this, do that in and out. And Joel, I was watching what you were doing on this nail the mix thing, and I was just like, I got to rethink whole. I was like, fuck man, I got to rethink some shit. Why

Speaker 4 (00:08:44):

Do you say that?

Speaker 5 (00:08:45):

Well, the one thing that I'm trying to incorporate in my thing is the way you are working with the base DI and splitting it into crossover frequencies and doing that stuff. I was like, oh, that's genius. I never thought of doing that. And I started doing that the last week. I've done titin mixes with it. It's really cool. The base sometimes is just like, okay, let's just put the base in and then move on. But now it's like lemme tailor some cool base shit going on and it's

Speaker 2 (00:09:10):

More control.

Speaker 5 (00:09:11):

More control. And that technique, Joel, that you showed really, I was like, okay, this is hip, this is cool. Yeah, exactly. It's giving me more control and more of a blend. It was really things like that. I'm still going through it. It's really long and it has so much info, but it's helped me get out of my rut a little bit. Well,

Speaker 4 (00:09:29):

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (00:09:30):

That's

Speaker 3 (00:09:30):

Great to hear. That actually brings up the question, how would you go about base before seeing that? How would you get it to both stand out and also provide the thunder?

Speaker 5 (00:09:42):

Well, and this is, I'm talking about, I'm going to talk about live, the live recording multi-track stuff that I was doing is they tend to give me a di, which is always great. I find them the mic end of if they mic a base rig, and here's the other thing, hopefully the mic is in the fucking right spot, which some of these guys just don't do it or maybe they mic it to where it works for them. But there's been other times when I literally walk on stage and I just kind of politely just move the microphone and I kind of look at them, oh hey, thanks man. Thanks for doing it was like, yeah, it was pointing at the fucking snare drum. Yeah, so, so I tend to take the DI's and the live thing to give me clarity. I tend to do away with the microphone unless they're doing something really cool with it, they're putting an effect on there that I'm not getting with the di that's very proprietary. So I'll take that and just really heavily kind of low pass or high cut that. So I kind of get some of that ambiance from the thing. But I've just been like for the di I've just been, okay, LA two A, maybe some amplitude try some different SVT modeling. And then I hate to do it and I hate to admit it, but the Chris Lord algae, like the audio suite plugins, they're actually kind of rad. I feel like cheating every time I put 'em on, but

Speaker 3 (00:11:03):

I think they've got their place.

Speaker 5 (00:11:05):

And so that's kind of been my go-to is that thing sometimes just really freaking works really well. So I'll do that and I'll do my normal thing and now I have a mix up right now that I was working on a band called ratta. They're kind of like an instrumental kind of thing. And I'll do my normal thing and then I'll duplicate two tracks and I'll do the thing that Joel was hipping me to. And then I just kind of see, okay, is this new thing working or is my old thing working? And right now the new thing's starting to win out. So that's kind how I was treating base, really working with the DI to help give me clarity and to kind of make it rise above. But again, some of this stuff, some of the indie rock stuff, some of the rock stuff, the base just kind of needs to sit there and not really peek its head out sometimes,

Speaker 3 (00:11:48):

Unless

Speaker 5 (00:11:48):

Of course they're doing a high octave kind of fill thing. But, and that kind of applies to records too. Sometimes the bass just needs to sit there and provide that kind of low end thunder and not really get in the way. And other times you get some great bass players and it's like, cool, let's make this shine a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (00:12:07):

I find that on heavy records specifically, it's really important to use that trick because sometimes if you don't, it gets very difficult to get a good blend of the heavy guitars with the bass and it starts to stick out a sore thumb in a weird way. It's kind of the thing of having bass that's way too clean on a metal record doesn't usually work, at least in my experience. So I think that that's a really, really great trick. That's interesting to me that it's new to you considering the amount of work you do because I think that to us that's like a super commonplace trick.

Speaker 5 (00:12:45):

Yeah, yeah. And I think the trick that I was doing to get some of that marriage between low end and guitars was a third distorted track. If I was producing the project or if I was even mixing, I would reamp it taking the DI and going through a Bogner Shaw or 51 50 through a base cab to get that kind of distortion. But now with that kind of splitting up the DI into these different EQ spectrums, kind of like multi-band it in a way, I feel like, well, you know what? That replaces me doing the extra guitar cab trick. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:13:19):

Yeah. Well congrats on your pinatas award for the Carson Daily Show.

Speaker 5 (00:13:24):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:13:24):

That's pretty cool. So let's talk a little bit about how you got started. You're based in la, which we all know is a pretty social area and requires a lot of networking to really get anywhere and do anything. So can you speak to that a little bit and maybe provide some kind of insight to our listeners who might be trying to come up in a town that's pretty competitive as well?

Speaker 3 (00:13:46):

Yeah. How did you do it without just being a total cheese ball? I know you go to Nam and those cheese balls just bombard you.

Speaker 5 (00:13:55):

You know what, dude, you guys are bringing up a thing I wrestle with every day and I talk to my friends about it as well. And it's like how do you self-promote without feeling like a fucking used car salesman? You know what I mean? It's tough and you don't want to come off as desperate and I need work. I need work and I'll do this, I'll do that. So it's really like I've always believed in, and maybe this is being too romantic, but I always believed in if you do good work, it'll leave a trail and then that trail will find you.

Speaker 3 (00:14:26):

But sometimes you need to light that trail up

Speaker 5 (00:14:28):

And that's difficult. And I think I'm probably the worst person at networking and schmoozing. I really am, but I'll try to do it. I don't think there is a right thing. I think the better way to do it is take control of your online presence and your online narrative, your digital narrative, which is something that if you kind of Google me, you're not going to find too much. And I'm trying to change that. I came from an old school mentality of, and some of the managers I've had, they're like, well, we don't want you online. We don't want people to find you that easy. We don't want people to know what projects you're doing because it was so competitive. If you were doing a band and let's say you were in pre-production, they'd be fucking other producers sniffing around if they knew you were doing it. And I remember doing a record for Roadrunner and literally there was a producer in the parking lot on the way out talking to the band like, Hey man, you holy shit. I heard it's not going so well in there. Heard you guys couldn't

Speaker 4 (00:15:24):

Get through bass. Let me mix it.

Speaker 5 (00:15:26):

Yeah, no, yeah, I heard some issues with some drums, but I think that's something that I battle with and I don't really have a thing other than if you kind of network and you socialize from a real honest place. And I always tell bands that I'm hanging with, or if I'm at Nam and doing thing, I'm just really more interested in their story. I'm more interested in the gear. I'm not interested in getting an endorsement or schmoozing that it's like, Hey, what are you guys up to? And if I feel like both of our self-interests are going to align, hey, let's do something. And the thing that helps, and I wish I did this years and years ago was having my own facility where I can say to a band, Hey, why don't you come up for a couple of days and let's do a track. No strings attached. Let's not get managers involved. Let's just do a track and see if we like working together. And to be honest, that's a day or two of my time, but dude, I'd rather have that than running around town looking at shows, paying for parking, buying drinks, buying people dinner. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (00:16:23):

Yeah. So

Speaker 5 (00:16:24):

I feel like that if you have your own facility, which I think in this day and age is super important, whether it's a bedroom or whether it's a converted garage or whatever, that to me it's like, Hey, let's do something. And I think everyone's usually

Speaker 3 (00:16:39):

Pretty receptive to it. That's interesting that you say that because one thing that I always preach and we always preach is giving people value in advance. And that goes, whether you're trying to sell a physical product or a service like recording or trying to teach people how to record or whatever these days, you do need to give them something that will make their life better before they're going to become a client or customer generally.

Speaker 4 (00:17:09):

I was going to say, I think that's an amazing point you brought up too, Fred, because I know a lot of kids and stuff that are like, oh yeah, well, how do I get bands in the studio? And you're like, well record some stuff for free, go to shows, scrap 'em up, get 'em in form a relationship. They're like, well, I'm not going to do that, man. You're like, well, come on. And then you look at a rap sheet like you have and then you're doing it at the highest level. What does that tell you? It works.

Speaker 5 (00:17:33):

Yeah. And I think it's always about, and to go back to giving value, you're always selling yourself on the project. So you're going to campaign to get the record or to work with a band whether they have a budget or not, and then you're going to fight to keep the gig, and then it's a fight to get paid, and it's a fight to your royalties. You know what I mean? It's an industry loaded with minefields, and if you don't have a passion for it, you're going to come up short. Again, if you're not willing to go out to a show and corner a band and say hi and say, Hey, it's kind of a douchey, I'm a record producer, that's kind of stupid. Like, Hey, I got a studio. If you want to record some songs, come on up. I really love what you guys were doing. And I did that a handful of times and those have been my biggest successes, those most awkward thing I see a band, I'm like,

Speaker 2 (00:18:20):

Same here. Actually

Speaker 5 (00:18:21):

This band's fucking cool and I did their record and then it led to something else. Led to something else. That's the important thing that I have to instill into everybody. An internship working for free will lead to something else working with a band that maybe didn't work out or maybe, okay, this is not really, it's going to lead to something else and that thing's going to lead to this, and then you're just going to look back and you have this trail. And then to me, and I think Joey, you kind of really have this thing is consistency. That's the thing now I'm starting to strive for is the consistent performance. Whether you're coming at it as a co-writer to write a song, you guys had Kane c Chico, the consistency of what his is going to be, the consistency of what you guys bring to a project, and then the consistency of hopefully what I can bring that is what's going to make you successful.

Speaker 3 (00:19:12):

I mean, even with something like this podcast, we need to make sure of course, that it's good, but that it's coming out every single week like we said it would or people will lose faith in what we're doing.

Speaker 5 (00:19:25):

Yeah, and that's the thing that I feel like, because I think back in the day, and I've had some big records, to me, I thought, cool, you get into this business and I'll get that link in park record and then it's Easy Street, and I kind of came on the tail end of that, and it doesn't really exist where you're going to do a record and it's going to sell 10 million copies. So to me now it's about how do you redefine success, but also just how do you just become consistent where everything you touch is going to perform to a point where is really reliable and that labels and managers and artists are going to want to work with you. And I think that is, it's all about the singles doubles and not the home runs Grand Slams.

Speaker 3 (00:20:07):

Speaking to your example actually about Lincoln Park, Josh Newell, who is a good friend of mine and a great engineer who's done a bunch of their records and he's done a bunch of other great stuff like Avril Levine, he's the perfect example. You would think that with those credits, he would no longer need to push for work, but he's always pushing for work. He's doing Lincoln Park right now and he's still pushing for work.

Speaker 5 (00:20:30):

Josh, I remember I left NRG while he was interning, and I was like, oh, the kid with the piercings. But yeah, that's exactly, I love Josh. Josh is fantastic, and that's just case in point, he's killing it. He does these cool, I hope I'm not mispronouncing intranet records, he does these really cool intricate kind of stoner rock p prog rock records, and at the same time he's working with Ben Moody and doing these huge fucking pop records that to me, it's like I was talking to Joey in LA a little bit is like, that's the next generation, that's the voices, the storytellers I want to champion and kind of bring to the forefront, and that's what I feel like you guys are doing. You guys are fucking doing it, so what am I doing? But yeah, Josh is a great example of that, where you're going to work with that dude, you're going to pull from all those experiences. That would be cool for me as an artist, I'd want to work with him because it's like, cool, show me all the secrets, the Max Martin secrets. Show me all. Absolutely. So yeah, it's really cool.

Speaker 2 (00:21:30):

So I know you talked a little bit about the live sound, which isn't actually live sound, but remixing a live recording or whatever. Do you find big differences between doing that versus studio work? Because we all expect sort of a modern production nowadays to sort of have those comps and the edits and the punch-in and all that. What do you notice the differences, the big difference?

Speaker 5 (00:21:55):

The big difference is there's so many. The big difference to me is when you're producing a record mixing or engineering, you're really kind of like you're hired by the artist. The artist trust you, the artist is working with you for a reason. Right now, when I'm doing this thing, it's a union position and it's kind of a shotgun marriage. It's like they're forced to use me and they have no clue who I am. And if they were to do a little bit of searching the words, avenge sevenfold come up, and when you're an indie pop artist like Grimes who probably has no fucking clue who that is, or you're like, what's another bad example? When you're the band called Naked and Famous and they see, oh, the metal dude's going to be mixing your stuff, the trust just goes out the window. So I'm fighting for the trust, but the main difference creatively is you're creating, when you're making the record, I'm recreating, and what that recreation is is a moving target.

(00:22:52):

So a band like M 83, they were bringing the record to the stage and they really wanted it to sound like the record. And let's say I'm working with an artist, I mean guys, there's so many Jake Bug or any other artist, it might be kind of this weird thing where the record's completely different from the live show. And so, okay, now what do I do? So I have to interpret it so it's more of a reinterpretation instead of a creation. So it's a different hat and I don't have the comps to choose from. To be honest. Sometimes the vocals don't tune up because tuning a live vocal is really tough, and I've tried a couple of tricks of filtering low end out of it. There's just so much swimming around a vocal live, you have the drums, you have playback, and if they're on monitor wedges, you got an Intune keyboard, but an out tune vocal. So you tune the vocal and it's like, well now the keyboard's out of tune. You have to make those decisions.

(00:23:53):

So those are the kind of editing and performance tweaks that I face. And to be honest, the prepping of a live track is way longer than mixing it. The other thing that I can kind of do sometimes and it saved me is I record the sound checks. And so I was doing this thing with the Crystal method and they were doing this kind of big anniversary show and they were doing all their hits with all the original singers. So they were doing trip like I do with some of the filter guys, and then they were doing some of their newer songs with all the original singers, and we had this girl Dia Frampton, who was singing on their new single and at soundcheck, it was awesome. It was one of those lightning in a bottle of things where, wow, this is going to be rad.

(00:24:39):

And unfortunately at Showtime it just didn't translate as well. She was still great, but it was a little off key, and then she fucked up the intro. It went twice as long, and so I was like, oh, what do I do? I was like, oh, wait a minute. I have the soundcheck. Let me fly soundcheck in. And I was really helpful. So I can that very limited and I can tune kind of limited, and I can also sung some background vocals. I've replayed violin parts, I'll replay or horn parts I'll replay and not necessarily replace, but kind of sneak in there and give it a nice fullness. And so those are the type of production tricks and things and recreation things and try to figure out does the band want the record or do they want this middle ground of recreation? And that's what I'm always battling and then also battling the trust issue. Hey, trust me to do this really great job for you guys.

Speaker 2 (00:25:33):

What I really like about what you're doing and what you said there is it's kind of the approach that I like to have, which is I think in some cases, not all cases, but in some cases, it really doesn't matter how you get there as long as you get there. I really do like the approach of adding a guitar note here and there, or adding a background vocal or sneaking in a little instrument here just to help things out. Now you don't want to do that if you're working with Dave Grohl, just you don't need to, but with some things need a little help. I love when the producer gets in there and does that. I can't think of the guy's name, but he mixed the new Paramore album and part of his approach was to actually add all kinds of instruments, and I don't think they were even aware of it at first.

Speaker 5 (00:26:20):

Well, that's my question to you guys is with every new project and every new band, aren't you testing the limits as to what you can kind of add in the soundscape? That's what I always feel. It's like, can I add this and see if I can get away with it? And then if they're like, yeah, that's rad, and then you start really opening the floodgates. Well, if you like that, then check this out.

Speaker 3 (00:26:40):

Absolutely. Yeah, totally. Though I do have to say there are some older school metal bands that I've worked on that you can't get any ideas in bands that have been around for 30 years or something. It's not happening, but in general, yeah, totally. I'm wondering, with all that prep you have to do, are you a one man show or do you have an intern or an assistant?

Speaker 5 (00:27:08):

Yeah, no, I've been looking for that kind of help and yeah, that's pretty

Speaker 3 (00:27:14):

Impressive.

Speaker 5 (00:27:16):

Well, it's fatiguing is what it is. A machine. You're telling me about something that Yeah, I've been trying to, it's so funny. Sunday night last night, I just got these emails from Gary Newman, who I've worked with in the past, and he emailed me, he's like, oh mate, last minute I got four records that need to get mixed by January. And I'm like, cool, let's do it. And then I still have a couple weeks of TV show mixes, and then I'm in pre-production for this record that I'm doing for Universal. So that's going to be part of the budget is getting an assistant in to prep tracks. But yeah,

Speaker 4 (00:27:50):

It helps.

Speaker 5 (00:27:50):

It's got to, right? Yeah. Yeah, it

Speaker 4 (00:27:52):

Takes a while to get 'em dialed in, but oh my god, it's a game changer.

Speaker 3 (00:27:55):

How many instruments do you play? You just mentioned quite a few.

Speaker 5 (00:27:59):

Well, Jack of all trades, master of None. I came up as a guitar player and I loved, I came from old school metal shred stuff, real poppy shred stuff, like V and white steak and AC DC and all that kind of stuff. And then I tried to be that player and I just couldn't shred. And so I went to Berkeley and I studied jazz guitar and I did pretty well. And then I realized, I was like, you know what? All these other guys grew up, they know all the standards in all 12 keys. That's not part of my blood. I just kind of want to rock. And then I realized I really just wasn't a fast player. And then I heard this Bill Fra record Nashville, and he doesn't play above 70 BPMs. I was like, oh fuck.

Speaker 3 (00:28:48):

He's phenomenal.

Speaker 5 (00:28:50):

So as a guitar player, I feel, and then when I left Berkeley, and I don't know if you had the same feeling was you kind of had to unlearn.

Speaker 3 (00:28:58):

Yeah, absolutely. I was actually really careful about what I would let them teach me. I didn't do very well academically overall because there were certain things that I just refused to go into because I felt like everybody was playing elevator music and I was looking at the dudes who were in fourth year who had gone through all these courses and they could play, but I totally didn't want to sound like them at all in any way, shape or form. I did not want to poison myself with that garbage. So I was very, very choosy about what classes I would go to. And so I did great in the ones I went to. Of course I failed the ones I didn't go to, but that saved me from having to unlearn too much stuff.

Speaker 5 (00:29:46):

Now what years were you there?

Speaker 3 (00:29:48):

I believe man, like 98 through 2001 or something.

Speaker 5 (00:29:52):

Okay. So we were there at the same time. Oh

Speaker 3 (00:29:54):

Shit.

Speaker 5 (00:29:54):

Yeah, I was there from 96, 97 to 99, 2000 maybe. So yeah, we definitely passed ways somewhere. That's awesome. Interesting. Yeah, Adam D was there at the time. I don't know if you were friends with him.

Speaker 3 (00:30:12):

No, but John Mayer was in my ear training class. I'd never met Adam D at Berkeley though.

Speaker 5 (00:30:17):

And then who else I had in my class was I had Tony Bennett's daughter in my class and Tony

Speaker 3 (00:30:22):

Bennett. So you know who else was there when I was there? It was Gus G. Oh, cool. Yeah, he was there for literally one semester and then he got the fuck out. So did you finish or did you drop out?

Speaker 5 (00:30:36):

So funny. Yeah, I dropped out so close. Good. So towards the end, I became an MP and E student and I was already interning.

Speaker 3 (00:30:48):

That's music production and engineering for anyone that doesn't know

Speaker 5 (00:30:51):

Exactly. And at Berkeley you can go to the college, but then you have to apply to this even smaller program and I guess it's a little bit more competitive. So I got in, but at that time I was interning at the studio called New Alliance, which I want to tell that story really important. And I was also interning at a studio called Q Division, and I was working on records like Jane Doe by Converge and a bunch of records that you guys have talked about.

Speaker 3 (00:31:16):

So Kurt,

Speaker 5 (00:31:17):

So I knew Kurt at that time, and then I was mixing live sound for this off-Broadway show called Blue Man Group and playing in a band that was signed. So it was all these things kind of culminated towards the end. And I left and I'm literally five credits shy. And when I went to the Sato Award thing, I talked to this Berkeley guy who's the head of the MP E department, and I was like, Hey man, I'm a student there and I never finished, but I did learn some stuff and it was cool, and he totally hustled me. He goes, well, we have this online degree completion, and literally I'm sitting in this meeting with Joey before Thanksgiving. It is like a heavy music industry meeting. And I'm literally getting an email like, Hey, maybe you should finish your degree. And I'm like, I'm also kind of voting on some Grammys right now. I don't know if I really need this, but

Speaker 2 (00:32:16):

Perhaps not the most wisest use of your time right there.

Speaker 4 (00:32:21):

But

Speaker 5 (00:32:21):

I wanted to go.

Speaker 4 (00:32:22):

You just sell.

Speaker 5 (00:32:23):

Yeah. Yeah. So I wanted to go back when it comes down to people getting a start, and I just always hark on the internship, and that's new alliance. When I was at Berkeley, I did this class called the Studio for Musician, and part of it was you had to book Studio Time, that was your final project. You had to form a fake band and go around studios in Boston and book time and do a budget and all that kind of shit. And I saw all these studios in Boston. I was like, this is fucking cool. I'd just rather work here and intern here. So I interned at this place called New Alliance, which was right behind Fenway Park in this Dungy building.

Speaker 3 (00:33:03):

Man, I lived across the street from that.

Speaker 5 (00:33:05):

Okay. So yeah, I forget what it was called, but they had a bunch of rehearsal rooms there and a bunch of bands rehearsed. There was a few studios there,

Speaker 3 (00:33:12):

That's where my band Rehears.

Speaker 5 (00:33:13):

And so I started working at the studio called New Alliance, and it wasn't much. It was a basement studio with a 24 track, two inch and then a 16 track, one inch and a Soundcraft 6,000 console. And it just happened, they would be recording all the kind of the cooler stoner rock bands. Boston had the stoner rock thing, and then they had the Cambridge more heady poppy stuff. And so one of the bands that came in and I was interning working for free, and just any spare time I had, I was at the studio and I learned how to cut tape, I learned how to align machines, I learned all the names of the microphones, I learned how to deal with musicians. I met so many people. That's how I met all the Blue Man group people. And there was this producer, Andrew Murdoch, who was cutting demos for this band called Godsmack.

(00:34:00):

And so I worked on, and those demos became the first Godsmack record. And so working with Andrew and interning him, he became the super famous rock producer, moved out to LA and I followed him out here after my band broke up. And that's how I ended up working with Avenge. So that's the exact, and not to be a dick about it, but that's a record that I still get royalties on. It was enabled me to buy a house. If I didn't fucking intern, I would've never made all these connections. So that to me is super important. And that's why I always say people are like, how do I do it? It's like, dude, find a studio. It doesn't have to be big or small and just be willing not to be a fucking dumb ass. And you know what I mean, taking initiative, it's a lot of taking the trash out and cleaning coffee cups and then laying in samples and session prep, but that stuff really pays in spades. It's like an investment of time. It's like going to a show and recording a band for free. Hopefully it'll pay off later.

Speaker 4 (00:34:59):

Yeah. This morning I had a studio here with a guy, he rents across the hall and he's got his own studio and I have mine. So we kind of share the upper floor of a building, and he was in here this morning complaining how he needs a new intern. This kid that was here last week is all talk. He's not going to show up. His other guy is lazy, he doesn't do this and this other kid, this and that. And we're sitting here, we're like, man, it'd be cool to get somebody in this building who actually isn't a complete idiot who can show up on time and actually wants to be here. It's amazing.

Speaker 5 (00:35:26):

Yeah, and I think that's also, I think you guys would agree. Isn't that part of the business though too?

Speaker 4 (00:35:32):

Yeah.

Speaker 5 (00:35:34):

When I moved out to la, I was a runner at NRG studios and I took a big step back from producing my own records out in Boston and being a second engineer at bigger places to getting food for the dudes in lit.

Speaker 3 (00:35:48):

I mean, it's like working the mail room when you're trying to get up the corporate ladder. There's entry level positions in any line of work. It's just how it goes.

Speaker 5 (00:35:58):

Exactly. And we had a group of guys, I would say I, my class of guys, Josh Newell was a part of it towards the end, and there was a couple of other guys, and it was amazing to see the dropout guys that were just working on fucking huge records and just a year later, yeah, no, it's not for me. And I was just like, fuck you. I would die to be in your position. I remember there was this one guy who became Don go-to second engineer, and then he was being groomed to be his engineer and he was working on the second in park record all these huge records, and he was just in the corner reading a book. He'd throw a couple patches in the morning and then just read a book in the corner and not be involved. And then now he moved to San Diego to clean boats or whatever, but it really, the business will separate the wheat from the shaft as it were. You know what I mean? I think that's just part of the process with interns. Some are going to come back and some aren't. We get tested every day in this business, and I think it's not like the greatest dudes that end up, but it's the dudes that show up. Again. I know I'm not great, but I just show up. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (00:37:06):

Yeah. I mean not to compare what we do to the military at all, because clearly it's a whole different set of pressures, but they have very similar sorts of vetting processes that they're try to make people fail so that the people who do actually make it through are the ones who you would want making it through. I feel like almost like the intern process is a similar sort of thing. Get them doing some super difficult edits, laying samples and all that, and just by virtue of giving them that, you'll end up with people that are good. Everyone else will be gone within four days.

Speaker 5 (00:37:47):

And it's also the people that take the initiative. Sometimes I'll have interns, runner assistants, and a big part of their job description when I'm in production here at the house is client services, meaning make sure the coffee machine is stocked, make sure the trash is pulled, empty out, the ashtrays, that kind of stuff. And the dudes that do that without me telling them are the guys I keep around and try to keep around for the next record when I have a budget for this and that.

Speaker 3 (00:38:16):

Isn't that the truth? You know what Josh knew back to Tim again, what he told us is the way that he got the Lincoln Park gig was because when he was an assistant or an intern, he was the only guy who got their food order. And they figured, if you can't get the food order, how are you going to get drum addicts? Right?

Speaker 5 (00:38:35):

Yeah, no, that's exactly what, especially NRG, that's what you were instilled with was this attention of detail. And if you didn't get exactly the food order or stocking the food in the morning, you weren't going to get the patch right. You weren't going to get the tube mic set up. Right. Yeah, it all kind of, that attention to detail is really what in the long run really you fight to keep in record making. It's such a long, tedious, very focused job. And it's like if you miss that, oh shit, the mic priest is crapping out and you lose a take or whatever. So that attention to detail will be with you for the rest of your career.

Speaker 3 (00:39:13):

So considering that there's less studios than before when you were coming up, what do you recommend that kids nowadays do in order to get internships? I mean, there's far less good internships available than there used to be and far more kids going for them.

Speaker 5 (00:39:32):

Well, that's the issue, isn't it? Right?

Speaker 3 (00:39:34):

Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (00:39:36):

I get hit up quite a bit. I think it's more about finding, if I were really wanting to be, I think it's about finding, okay, this is the music I love, this is what I want to be working on. And then finding that person that works on it and doing some research, where are they working? Do they have their own facility? Is it in their house? Are they renting it? And so I think at the end of the day, there's less big commercial facilities, but there's way more islands out there, meaning I'm an island, this person's an island. We're all kind of scattered and we all have these little digital workflow rooms, but in essence, there's actually the separation creates more people working. So I think it's about just finding those, that's what I would do. And then the thing that I didn't have growing up is stuff like this podcast and all these YouTube clips and all this kind of stuff, so you can really gain up some knowledge. And I get some interns in sometimes and it's like they do some slamming shit. They're like, man, that stuff actually sounds fucking good. Show me how you do that.

Speaker 2 (00:40:37):

Well, hey, we're going to jump off this topic real quick here. We're getting near the end and we want to run you through the rapid fire, which Joel's going to lead.

Speaker 5 (00:40:44):

Okay.

Speaker 4 (00:40:45):

Alright. So we're going to rapid fire off a bunch of cool stuff and you can tell me your choice for either tracking or mixing and if you have any cool really secrets of proprietary stuff that you do not want to share, we totally respect that and thank you for playing,

Speaker 3 (00:40:58):

But if you do want to share it, that's even better.

Speaker 4 (00:41:00):

Yeah, perfect. Alright, so kick drum.

Speaker 5 (00:41:03):

Here's the one thing that I've been digging. So beta 52, scooping out three 400 always helps. But here's a new mic. It's called the Mondo mic. It's made by aone. Not that many people, dudes know about it, but I tried it out. It was fucking rad. It's kind of preq really aggressive. That's been my go-to that. And then the other trick on the mix end is DBX one sixties. And

(00:41:28):

The trick with them, I've had a lot of one sixties and they've gathered dust and I rediscovered them maybe three years ago. Again is low for me. I don't know if everyone else would agree with me, is low ratios like two to one, five to one and just kissing it. And it just like that to me. I'm like, oh, when I started doing that, I was like, oh fuck yeah, I was always four to one and really kind of compressing it. And I was like, what the fuck? Why is everyone talking about one 60? They suck. And then I started maybe using them a little bit more conservatively and I was like, oh, these are fucking rad.

Speaker 3 (00:42:02):

Nice. Like that. It's great on snares too. Kicking

Speaker 5 (00:42:05):

Snares. Yeah, on snares. I have a set of Joel, I don't know if you do this. I was looking at your studio and you seem to have a lot of, maybe all you guys have a lot of external stuff, but I have external DBX one 60 xts that live on the snare. And then I have external vu old school guys that live on the kicks. So yeah, that's exactly, that's exactly it. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (00:42:27):

That's sick. I don't have a one 60, but I'm tempted because Al is always telling me how great they are. I usually go for stressors.

Speaker 5 (00:42:35):

Yeah, it's so funny. I have a stressor. I'm looking at it today actually, and I just can't get my head around it. And maybe I got to relearn how to use that thing. I noticed that you were using them a lot and a lot of guys are just, I just can't get my head around it.

Speaker 4 (00:42:50):

Well, I'm going to go distress hardcore and nail the mix.

Speaker 5 (00:42:53):

Oh, cool. I'm looking forward to that.

Speaker 4 (00:42:55):

So, all right, let's talk about room mics.

Speaker 5 (00:42:57):

Room mics. It's like, do they get used? Hey, mute is a valid

Speaker 2 (00:43:05):

Choice. They do. They do on my productions.

Speaker 5 (00:43:09):

Yeah. It's so funny, like you try to work on 'em and that's probably where the most expensive microphone is in the room if you're at a commercial studio. But I really haven't had much luck. But I will say I'm tending to favor ribbon microphones for that. So RAR makes all those cool ribbon microphones. And then if you can get your hands on, if you're at a big studio like an M 49 or those old omni tube microphones, I really like those, but I tend to go over stuff that's darker and low gain. Again, scooping 800 out, getting the boxiness of a room out. And then the thing that I do at my house, I have a small living room, is I've been doing two SM sevens actually. So that's actually because SM Sevens kind of our low output, a little bit darker at times. So I just mixed something this weekend that I had the SM sevens in and I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. But to be honest, sometimes mute is the thing that happens because I have so much other ambiance going with verbs and stuff and recreating that. And if the tempos are fast, I personally just can't find room for them, no pun intended.

Speaker 4 (00:44:23):

Yeah, definitely. Okay. How about heavy distorted rhythm guitars?

Speaker 5 (00:44:28):

Tracking a 1 21 and a 57? I know that's the cliche thing that a lot of people are doing, but that to me works. It's a great balance. And then to be honest, the thing that is going to help you with distorted guitars is low cut or high pass, being aggressive with that. And then you guys kind turned me on. I started putting L ones now on my heavy guitars. I never was doing that. And now you guys hit me to that shit and I'm like, fuck yes. We

Speaker 4 (00:44:56):

Like L ones, don't we?

Speaker 5 (00:44:58):

And I'll tell you, and I didn't do this for a long time, I started doing this in 2007, is tracking a DI with my rhythm guitars just from an editing standpoint, even if I don't reamp the guitar, it gives me that transient look in your DW. So that is heavy guitars. Grab that di too. And here's my last thing about heavy guitars. I was talking to Joey about, it was, dude, the Sims, like Kemper or whatever, you're going to use pod farm, whatever. Having a guitar player track through that is a total different reaction than having them play through an amp. I've noticed they really dial into their right hand more and it's really cool. And so I started doing that on the tray record and it was a total night and day difference how they were playing rhythm guitars. And then if I wanted to reamp, I would. But yeah, I think the guitar di, which is probably like you guys old news, it's like, oh, of course we've fucked with those for years. But to me the guitar DI is the most unsung hero of guitar recording, I think.

Speaker 4 (00:46:04):

Yeah,

Speaker 5 (00:46:04):

Definitely. Oh

Speaker 4 (00:46:05):

Yeah. Alright. How about vocals? Singing vocals.

Speaker 5 (00:46:08):

Singing vocals is going to be, for me, I have this old stay level, this gate stay level, and

(00:46:16):

It's the fucking shit. So I bought this thing when I was doing Wake in the Fallen. I bought it online in 2003 and it came to me and it just wasn't cool at all. And I brought it to the studio tech, I was like, Hey man, can you check this out? And he goes, it checked out. And it literally sat in this storage locker of mine for like, oh, a good almost eight years. And I was going to sell it. And then I found this guy locally, David Coka, and he redid it. And the thing's butter, it's my go-to. And unfortunately it's that very mu tube compression. It has a 63 86 tube in it, which is

(00:46:53):

The same tube that the Fairchild's youth. So there's very limited life to it. So I try to turn it off if I'm not using it. But that to me, that's my one secret weapon. And then shooting out the mic too, like SM seven, I have a manly ref mic that I tend to. And then I also just bought this Dave Perlman U 47 copy called a TM one. So I have a little bit of a different flavor. I have more of the Hi-Fi Sony 800 vibe in the Manly. And then I have more of the vintage tube thing. So that's my thing with vocal, again, low passing it. And then on mix, I tend to favor the Slate Dragon or 1176, like the purple mc 70 sevens.

Speaker 4 (00:47:37):

Cool.

Speaker 5 (00:47:38):

I'll go hardware in that and I just fucking pin it. Just be really aggressive with it. And that to me is the cool jacket on the vocal as it were.

Speaker 4 (00:47:48):

Awesome. Yeah, manly compression. Alright, one more. We'll do two bus, anything cool on your mixed bus?

Speaker 5 (00:47:53):

Yeah. Two bus for me is a Manly very mu, which I abuse the fuck out of. I'm embarrassed. Oh, that's a great, I'm embarrassed to say it. And I think why it works for me is I mix digitally and then this darkens things up a little bit, but I have it set up, it's in compressed, but my settings are almost like a limiter. So it's like the output is pinned. It's a pretty fast release. I'm just looking at it right now. Super slow attack, the side chain filters are in. And I'm doing about two DB of reduction. But that to me is I put that on and I was like, okay, there's a difference here. And I'm embarrassed, I think I use it wrong, but fuck it. Sounds good. And then it goes through a pair of Tube tech EQs. Nice. The Tube Tech ones, the PE one Cs, and again, very broad low end boost at 60 hertz. And then maybe three cycles or three K boost that. And then here's the one secret weapon I have. I'm sorry it's taken me a while here, but

Speaker 3 (00:48:57):

That's great is

Speaker 5 (00:48:58):

The SPL. This is a fucking cool piece of gear. And I was doing some artist development and I lost this artist to a major label into kind of a bigger producer, but I was still doing kind of the other songs and whatever. And so I was getting these mixes back from this other dude and I was like, what the fuck? These sound so wide and so deep. What the fuck is this guy doing to his mixes? It's ungodly what he's doing. And then I looked up, because everything's online, so I looked up his setup and he was mixing through this SPL mixed dream and on the mixed dream there's a knob called Stereo enhancement. And so I started investigating all this. Waves has one, an S one, I think it's called. I started Invest

Speaker 2 (00:49:46):

Shuffler.

Speaker 5 (00:49:47):

Yeah, I started investigating all this stuff. And then SPL just makes this unit called the Vitalizer, which basically is an EQ with a stereo expander in it. And if you get the piece of gear, if you get the plugin, you're going to misuse it. You're just going to be like, oh my God. Yes. Wide, wide, wide, wide, wide. You just want everything wide. And I think it's just an MS encoder is probably what it does, but that to me, it adds that 20% or 10% of finishing and that stuff. All the stuff I'm talking about goes to mastering. And the only thing that doesn't go to mastering is I'll put a maximizer from UA or the Steven Slate FGX. I'll mix into that so I know what the limiting end result limiting is going to do.

Speaker 4 (00:50:29):

Are you using the tube or the solid state?

Speaker 5 (00:50:32):

Yes, I have the tube one. The tube version.

Speaker 4 (00:50:34):

You're making me gear lost here. I'm looking it up right now.

Speaker 5 (00:50:38):

Yeah, no, and even if you can get your hands on the solid state one, I bet that one's cool. I know a lot of dudes, if it's not on the mixed bus, put it on your guitar bus or something like that. You have to get extra width out of guitars and then you can keep drums a little bit more centered. But to me it's like that's my secret weapon. I am not scared to share it. I think some guys will like it, some guys won't. But it really helped me. And it also has this low end button, what is it called? Or it's called base compression and base sound. Right. And I don't use the compression end of it, but I use the soft end. So if you turn it to the left, you get the soft. And what it does is subharmonics synth, so it adds a low octave to everything. It's really cool. And so you use it sparingly. And then so in productions where I was adding subbase and choruses to make it bigger. Now I don't do that. Like, oh, I'm going to get that low end from this knob. But it's cool little trick that to me adds the low octave stuff. And then if I have too much of it, mastering will shave it off. So I'm not worried about it.

Speaker 3 (00:51:41):

Very nice. So we have a couple questions from the audience if you don't mind This one actually is something that I'm curious about as well. And I guess if you don't feel like answering it, I completely understand, but Jordan and Milton and myself were wondering what was the approach towards working with Portnoy on Nightmare, given the really awful circumstance? Did you have to do certain things to keep the vibe productive?

Speaker 5 (00:52:10):

Well, I didn't work on the Portnoy record, but the little bit that I did work on that record. Oh,

Speaker 3 (00:52:15):

That's what all music said. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (00:52:16):

I don't know why I'm listed as an engineer on that one. Maybe those bastards, some pre-pro, some stuff with that. But I will say that going into that was a very difficult time for everybody. Jimmy had passed away right around this time of year. It's actually coming up, I think it's on the 27th, 28th of December. And I think he is such an amazing writer and amazing drummer that I think it was like, fuck, what do we do now? I think the Portnoy thing was, I know that Jimmy was a fan of Mike. I think Mike, because everything was tracked demo wise on an eki at Matt's house. All the parts were there, right? All the songs were there. And then literally they took a Christmas break and they were going to start in January, right?

Speaker 2 (00:53:03):

Yeah.

Speaker 5 (00:53:03):

They took the Christmas break, and unfortunately Jimmy passed. And so all the parts were there, even some of the vocal parts that they ended up flying into the record. So I think Porto did a great job at copying. Jimmy had a cool swing in his symbol hand or his high hat hand. That was really unique, and I think Mike did a good job at copying that. And then the story I heard, Matt was telling me this was because when they were mixing, they emailed me like, Hey, what are those drum samples you use? And I was using those SSD samples at the time, and I was like, yeah, here they are. He's like, yeah, we need 'em, because the kick drums Mike doesn't play as heavy through those double kick patterns that Jimmy did. So that was the one thing that I think Mike really had to focus in and maybe didn't hit out of the park from what I understand. But everything else he hit out of the park. And I think he did his best to pay tribute. There's a lot of, obviously they're not working together. There was some other maybe bullshit that happened later on the tour, but that's really none of my business. But I worked a little bit on that in the pre-pro. And then as they were touring, I was working with Mike on show tapes and backing track stuff. But yeah, that's a tough one because Jimmy was just fricking great.

Speaker 3 (00:54:14):

I figure that when you lose someone, that's that awesome. Really the only thing you can possibly do if you're going to keep going is get someone, if you can swing it, get somebody legendary or someone that you can't really argue with.

Speaker 5 (00:54:31):

Yeah. And I think the trick with that is you don't want it to outshine what the material is too. You don, you don't want it to be the Mike Portnoy show, which maybe it did become because he's pretty great at promoting himself. But yeah, so I think of him every day, and I think of the guys every day, because for me, I don't know how you guys are, but he was like the first person I lost of my generation. You're used to maybe a grandparent passing or something like that, but when it's someone who's actually younger than you or of your generation, it kind of hits you like, fuck man, this is weird. And that was the first one. And then we lost Mick from 18 Visions, and there's been a couple of other, and even recently with the Paris stuff, I had a lot of friends over there. They lived, but it was eerie to like, shit, man. It's how fragile stuff is. You don't fucking think about it. We don't stop and think about it, and then they're not there. So yeah, I always think of that guy every day and the guys like, man, how does that mean for the guys to go through it?

Speaker 3 (00:55:34):

Yeah. I'm amazed that they just kept going that soon. I think that that's very, very impressive. If you think about a band like Hal and Chains, how long it took to get that thing restarted. But

Speaker 2 (00:55:49):

Oh, I remember waiting for that for so long,

Speaker 3 (00:55:52):

And I love the New singer. I think that that album they put out was phenomenal.

Speaker 5 (00:55:57):

They definitely had a resurge. And I think, again, every band and everybody agrees differently. Ac DC had a quick turnaround, and they got back on that horse and made a fantastic record with Back In Black. And I feel the same way with the Avenge guys, and I tell Matt this, Matt, that is lyrically one of your best records, hands down. I don't think the lyrics were done when Jimmy passed the music was done. Melody top line, I think was there, and I could be wrong, but lyrically, I think he kind revisited. And to me, I tell him, I was like, dude, that to me is the heaviest shit you've ever written lyrically, because I mean, avenge some of the lyrics stuff in the past hasn't been really, they kind of paint a picture, but it's not like,

Speaker 3 (00:56:38):

But

Speaker 5 (00:56:38):

Yeah, that nightmare record is like, okay, wow, that's something to be proud of. I can tell that you were going through some shit on that one.

Speaker 3 (00:56:44):

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I guess as far as questions from the audience go, here's one that's not nearly as heavy, Giovanni Angel is asking. So when you're working with a new artist, what are some of the things you always try to discuss first to get them in the Headspace to record or even get yourself in the Headspace to record them?

Speaker 5 (00:57:04):

I'm going through that right now, and I'm doing this rock record called a band called Hell or High Water, and it's branded from a REU side project that's more rock driven. So it's really about getting into, for me as a producer is, okay, where is this? Because we're making records and we're not necessarily making music. Maybe the two are mutually exclusive, sometimes they're not, but so where is this going to live in the marketplace? At the end of the day, I tell artists whether they're signed or unsigned is no one gives a fuck about your music. Okay. No, they don't. What they care about is How can I market this? And there's nothing wrong with that. So you have to understand, okay, where is this going to live? Active lifestyle, modern, whatever it is. So that's the headspace I try to get into as far as, okay, what is the landscape right now and what is this artist trying to do?

(00:57:58):

And so I try to get that going. And then, okay, what does the artist need? Do they need co-writing help? Yes or no? Do they need more sonic signatures for this band? Hell or high water? They're this modern alternative rock record, but they're going to be marketed as an active rock band. So to me, it's all about how can I sonically make this the most unique thing possible? So that's the headspace I'm in. They don't need songwriting help. They need a couple of arrangement tweaks, but sonically, it's like, okay, what? Vocal mic? So I went down and I shot out like eight vocal mics on the singer. Okay, this is the one I want. Maybe this, we're going to use this on your background vocals. So kind of getting a game plan on that. I want single coil guitars. I want fuzzies. I want plexi amps.

(00:58:46):

I want flat wound on the bass. I want to do symbols separate than drums on a couple songs. I want a seventies dyed dead drum sound. So those are the things that I start to gameplay, and those are the things I start to get the band stoked on and like, Hey, check out this record. Check out the vocal treatment on this. The other thing is I tell the band, especially this band is like, I want you guys not to be comfortable. I want you to go to a room. We're going to go to a room here in LA where a lot of great records have been made, and I want you to be uncomfortable. I want you to feel like you don't deserve walking into this room right now because I want you to fucking be great. I don't want you to be good. I want you to be great.

(00:59:23):

And I'm going to do the same because I'm going to feel there's no excuses. If all these hit records have been done here, the shit should be coming out slamming. So I try to get the band pumped up in that aspect of get them off their asses and get them, okay, fuck, this is game time, because this shit lives on forever. So if it's an hour just to get one part, let's take the time to do it because it's going to fucking be there forever. It might just be a 32nd part or whatever. So those are the type of research things that I try to do. And that's my headspace right now. That's why I'm talking about is just these sonic signatures of I'm looking to make this record stand out. And sometimes you're looking to make a record fit into the lane that it's going to exist. So I don't know if it's different for you guys, but that's kind of where I try to game plan as much as I possible, because producing a band, producing a record, it's such a commitment, such an investment. It's like an emotional investment. I mean. Oh,

Speaker 4 (01:00:18):

Yeah, totally.

Speaker 5 (01:00:19):

And especially with my wife and I do some parts of the record at the house. She lives through the shit too.

Speaker 4 (01:00:26):

How do you manage to balance that friend?

Speaker 5 (01:00:28):

It's a constant. I don't think I do a great job Some days. Some days my work suffers, and some days my marriage suffers. I think it's, you know what I mean? It's a never win. Totally. Totally. It's a fucking never win. But do you have kids? No. Kids. Just dogs.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):

All right. You got the easy end of this stick.

Speaker 5 (01:00:44):

Yeah. Dudes who have kids, I'm just like, what? I don't get it. I don't see how you guys do that. It's really hard.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):

Yeah, Jill's got three kids.

Speaker 5 (01:00:52):

Well, God bless him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):

Well, Fred, thanks for being on the show, and it was great to see you in LA and meet you. And hopefully when I go back, we can hang out or something like that. Is there anything that you want to point people to before we close this up?

Speaker 5 (01:01:07):

I mean, not really. I mean, I think point it back to what you guys are doing. I know, I don't know how new the bootcamp or nail the mix thing is, but I actually got to sign up for that. But I just think what you guys are doing and the kind of voices that you're championing, I really do sincerely mean it. It's like, thank you. Thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):

Thanks for saying that.

Speaker 5 (01:01:28):

We

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):

Appreciate it. Thank you, man.

Speaker 5 (01:01:29):

And the fact that you do open up your secrets or your tricks and some of that stuff is really cool because some guys don't really do that. And it's cool to see that. And like I said, I'm still going through this five hour YouTube thing and I'm just like, oh my God, this is heavy.

Speaker 4 (01:01:46):

Awesome. Well, we appreciate it. Thank you so much for being on. It was really interesting talking to you.

Speaker 5 (01:01:51):

Oh, cool.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):

Well, thanks so much. Yeah, man. Thank you. The Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast is brought to you by Focus, right? Supplying hardware and software products used by professional and amateur musicians, which enables the high quality production of music. Focus, right? Sound is everything. Visit focus right.com for more information, to ask us questions, make suggestions and interact. Visit URM academy slash podcast and subscribe today.