Johnny Minardi: Signing Panic! At The Disco, the secrets of A&R, and producer management

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Focus, right supplying hardware and software products used by professional and amateur musicians, which enables the high quality production of music Focus. Right? Sound is everything. And now your host, Joey Sturgis. Joel Wanasek and Eyal

Speaker 2 (00:22):

Levi. Hello everyone. Welcome to the Joey Sturgis Forum podcast. Hope you're doing well. Al's not with us right now. He's probably maybe stuck in traffic. I don't know. What do you think? We'll find

Speaker 3 (00:34):

Him.

Speaker 2 (00:35):

We'll find him. He's easy to find. We have a special guest with us today, Johnny Minardi. I'd like to welcome you onto the show. How are you doing, Johnny?

Speaker 4 (00:43):

Doing well. How are you guys doing?

Speaker 2 (00:44):

Good.

Speaker 4 (00:45):

We are

Speaker 3 (00:45):

Awesome. Really excited to be talking to you. Cool. First a and r Guy on the show.

Speaker 4 (00:50):

There you go. I'm blessed.

Speaker 3 (00:52):

Well, not only that, but you manage producers, correct? I

Speaker 4 (00:54):

Certainly do. I manage a whole hell of a lot of guys that I have worked with for somewhat over the past five to 10 years and some over the past five to 10 weeks, so a nice slew of them.

Speaker 3 (01:06):

Sweet. Well, why don't you give our listeners a little bit of the mo about yourself and let everybody know where you came from and what you do.

Speaker 4 (01:13):

Red. I was born and raised in Chicago. I started out in high school starting my own label, worked with a bunch of cool bands like the Academy is and Gatsby's American Dream. Moved down to Florida, worked at Fuel by Ramen for eight years, fuel by Ramen in Atlantic. Worked with a bunch of amazing bands there, follow Up Boy Panic at the Disco, Paramore, you name it. It was a really fun time to be there and see it all work from the inside and help out with it. And 2012 came back to Chicago and started a management company for all of the producers and mixers that I worked with while at Field by Ramen and started representing them. I was very friendly with them and they all needed a little help, and I just really wanted to put 'em all together and make sure their careers were going in the right path.

(01:57):

And about six months ago started working at Equal Vision Records, who I've had a longstanding friendship with while I was at the other labels and all this other stuff. And I just love the label and worked out to where I can go back into a and r Inc after three years of being away. And also in the moment working on a website called Noise Creators, which will be producer marketplace, so any band label anyone can go to learn about, hopefully book and just get to know these producers and help educate. I do feel like it's a weird taboo thing and there's a curtain up still, so I kind of want to help pull that down and educate these bands on who's doing killer work much like yourselves.

Speaker 2 (02:37):

That's awesome. Let me just start off by asking you what I consider to be a good question because I think a lot of people are still confused about this. So if you don't mind, would you please elaborate on what an a and r person actually does and what artist development actually is?

Speaker 4 (02:57):

Absolutely. So you're going to get different answers from anyone, but what it means to me is I kind of fell into it in a way not even knowing what that term was. I was just finding bands in my local world and I was like, these bands are incredible. Why does no one know about them? So it kind of was very organic in that way, and I would put them in the studio with friends and get better songs. And so really it's finding a band, finding talent, finding whatever, and developing it into something that you really can take into the world and hopefully grow as a career. And the a r side of it focuses more on the songs and the music and the production rather than the touring and sometimes marketing. But in our world, in the indie label world, you kind of all wear all those hats together. So it's kind of fit in with the artist development thing of hopefully getting them on the right runs and tours and marketing and all that different stuff combined, but it's finding and nurturing and developing talent. As a short answer,

Speaker 3 (03:56):

I was going to ask a lot of people that I know that are in a and r say that a and r has changed a lot over the last 10 to 15 years. What do you think?

Speaker 4 (04:05):

Absolutely. I mean, it used to be I hear stories and I've worked with people who've done it for well longer than I have, and I can't even imagine how it worked. I guess I was semi raised on it through junior high and high school and beyond. They'd hear about a band from a promoter and they'd have to go and fly out. That was the only way, you know what I mean? You'd call and you'd say, what's up? I'm coming out, when's your next show? And you'd go, that was it. It's such a very cut and dry, black and white thing. Whereas now, I mean how it all goes with all of the YouTube and this and that and who's faking it, who's not, who's actually selling tickets, who's got great songs, whatever. So it's like there's a million different avenues, which is a good and a bad thing I guess. But if you can kind of work through the shit, you usually find out the good stuff and have trusted ears out there, and friends with promoters so-and-so in Oklahoma City selling 300 tickets, you should come check it out or have a conversation. So I think it's all about the network that you're in, and it's changed, but it also just has gotten better in my eyes, easier in a sense.

Speaker 2 (05:13):

One thing I've noticed, I think a trend that's sort of a rising, and this I think is a side effect of the internet, well, not really a side effect, maybe a feature of the internet, but allows us all to connect and communicate from a distance.

(05:26):

And so I think one of the things that you see happening a lot more is a lot more connections taking place in the songwriting process. Things that wouldn't normally or ordinarily happen. Maybe somebody who writes music in LA is connecting with a band from Maine who has members in the uk. And so you've got this crazy thing where I think there's a lot of music being made collaboratively and not so much, it used to be three or four or five dudes got together and they would write their own music, but now I feel like there's really not very many bands that write their own music. There's a lot of outsourcing going on and there's a lot of collaborative writing going on.

Speaker 5 (06:09):

And

Speaker 2 (06:09):

I'm just curious, what is your opinion on that in the early stages before you've had a chance to come in and situate the process as an a and r?

Speaker 4 (06:22):

Yeah, I mean, I kind of see it both ways. Some bands don't need it and create some very special thing on their own, and that's what made them special. It's kind of like the term you have your whole life to make your debut record. You can only make it once though. So it's like to me though, when I used to be an a r dude at Field by Ramen, there was times when bands would come to us and be like, can you just plug us in with these songwriters? And it's like, well, you're not even a band. What am I signing? I'm signing the songwriter songs with you, singing them. So there's got to be something special about a band. I'm all about the songwriter, helping take it to another level or finding the strength and pulling something out of an artist, but the artist has to be there and it has to be somewhat organic or else, to me it's the whole American idol style world of it, which again, is not something negative, but that's just not the world I've lived in for a long time. But I think it's cool when bands take initiative and reach out to songwriters or producers that also write and help organize everything, anything to better themselves if they think that that's what it takes. That's

Speaker 3 (07:26):

Cool. It's actually refreshing to hear, because so many times when you're writing songs with band, sometimes it feels like the opposite way where they come to you and they're like, we don't have anything and we need a single in the next 24 hours. So deliver. And you're just like, okay.

Speaker 4 (07:40):

Yeah, yeah, that whole world is crazy. And I mean, I don't understand the time limits on something like that, but that's cool. I mean, whatever a band needs to do to get to the next level and get kids out to shows, hurry up and wait. Right, right. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (07:55):

So would you say that's now a bigger part of the process is sniping out those situations, those shell of a bands

Speaker 4 (08:03):

Possibly. That's definitely not the way I look for it. I like a band that I can see live and love it pre signing a band. So I don't know if they went to a writer earlier, that's cool. But I'm sure there's labels that find a good looking dude that kind of has a cool voice and goes, let me build a band around this guy and just plug songs in.

Speaker 2 (08:22):

Oh, I guess I meant the other way around. You prefer to find those special unicorns and not the eggshells?

Speaker 4 (08:30):

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that's what I was kind of born and raised on and fell ass backwards into a Chicago scene with bands like Fall Point Academies who were really earning and working on their own craft before going to producers and writers.

Speaker 2 (08:44):

Yeah. So I think that's a problem now more than ever with the internet, making it so easy to collaborate. It's almost like you can't really find the real, where are the real people at? And the interesting thing I think that's starting to emerge is those real people are on YouTube and they're doing their own thing and they don't need anybody else and they can succeed. You look at someone like Boy in a band, for example, British guy's got, I think he has half a million subscribers or something

Speaker 4 (09:16):

Crazy.

Speaker 2 (09:16):

Yeah, it's like he doesn't need a band. He was in a band, but that just went away when the YouTube thing took over. So what kind of things do you notice are strengths in YouTube? What's the pros and cons of YouTube right now? What do you think?

Speaker 4 (09:32):

Yeah, I mean, the details of it are pretty crazy. But I mean, if a band, I think every band's trying that same thing of let's just do a cover per week thing and build our following and this and that, which is cool. But it's also to me as a music fan, so boring and I just hate a new band comes out and they're like, well, what do we do to fill our time? It's like, to me, I liked back in the day when bands would take you into their practices or their live show and show them not like you covering the new Rihanna single. You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (10:06):

Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (10:07):

I think there's a way to build following, and who am I to say, because it's worked for bands. I mean, the band our last night was on epitaph and didn't do that well, and now they do covers every week to a stupid number of people that they're a way bigger band than they ever were because of that. So they found it and used it as a vehicle to create, and now they're doing well with tickets and their originals and all that stuff. So it does work, but to me, I just get really bored with that kind of thing. But there's vehicles for it all, and if you have a guy in your band that's really good at video stuff, you already have a crazy leg up on all these other bands that are really bad on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (10:45):

Yeah. Let's talk about the organic route or the more traditional route of a band kind of breaking on their own. So if you were starting a band, because I feel like there's always been this wall between our side of the industry and a lot of upcoming bands, because when I played in a band, there was no information. You had to convince some manager that you were good enough and then they would tell you how to build your band, create a brand, et cetera, and then either you take the advice and they pick you up and you do something and you get investment or you flop and play bars for the rest of your life. So if you were giving advice to a band that was just starting out and they wanted to do it for real, and they were serious and they had the right imaging and you just all the right calculus that was needed to make a really great band, what advice would you give them on the first day they got together and decided to make that band?

Speaker 4 (11:30):

Well, I actually have this conversation probably 10 times a week, so it's pretty fresh to me. It always boils down to the song. A great song goes so much further than a great image or a marketing scheme or whatever. So having the song, sometimes it's really hard to get there for certain people. It's a skill. Certain people try to write a song because they picked up a guitar last year, it's obviously not going to be as good as a guy that's been trying to write a great song for 20 years. So it's honing in on that skill, and I think it's cool if you can find a guy that you can get to that you can have access to with a producer slash writer, whatever it may be, to bounce ideas and learn. I don't think there's anything wrong with learning how to brush up on your chops and get better at songwriting.

(12:17):

So I always think collaborating with people is a great idea. If you are hitting a wall or whatever you're doing. Again, it's that song. I always try to tell people to reverse engineer what their favorite bands did, go back and listen to their first records and then the jump to the second record, what did they do better? What did they do differently? Did they stop fiddling five and a half minute songs and whittle it down to three? And they just really honed in on the parts. What is it doing? I think there's a way to do it. Or some people are just special enough that they get in a room and they rip three songs real quick and you're like, whoa, I think we're onto something here.

Speaker 2 (12:51):

Yeah, absolutely. Content is king.

Speaker 4 (12:53):

That's right. You know that more than most my friend.

Speaker 2 (12:56):

Yeah. So yeah, I know I've had my fair share of people coming in here with what I thought would be six original songs, but it's six songs written with this other guy who also was co-writing with this other dude. And so then you get a bunch of dudes that don't really even understand the song that they own.

Speaker 3 (13:21):

Absolutely. Song in a Box.

Speaker 2 (13:22):

Yeah, song in a Box. So it really causes an interesting challenge for me as a producer because I feel like I'm not working with the actual person. I'm working with a person who's playing the song that they just know. So that is that ever a challenge? Do you find that some record label artists don't really understand their own sound and constantly having to work with outside sources? And does that become, I guess, a downhill slope?

Speaker 4 (13:59):

Yeah, I think sometimes it does. I don't find myself running into that all too often. Like I said, I like to get out and see it firsthand before I can just say, okay, I'm signing you. You're going in with these 10 songwriters. The best 10 songs win for the record, and we move on from there. To me, I'm signing a band for the band, so I don't think that it works that way until record three or four. If you're going to a big label and you're like, Hey, your a and r guy's, like I need a song, I could take the radio or else you're shelved. That's a different kind of aspect of it all. Then you go to the butch walkers and big guys that just churn out hits. Whereas on the level I'm working on for Equal Vision, I want a band that really has a voice and a vision and a passion for what they're doing to where they couldn't do. If I put 'em in with a room with someone that didn't fully believe in their passion, they would get up an hour into it and go, you know what? This isn't even working. Let's go right in our garage again. You know what I mean? Yeah,

Speaker 3 (14:54):

Yeah. That's great.

Speaker 4 (14:55):

So that's the kind of vibe I always want. I mean, if I can't stand up and be proud of a band that I'm working with, then why am I working? And we're investing money and time and effort and there's a million bands out there that want it more than that, so you just got to find those. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (15:10):

Absolutely, absolutely. So where do you look now that local scenes are almost blurred and everything's so saturated and noisy?

Speaker 4 (15:23):

Where

Speaker 2 (15:24):

Do you find these academy is in hidden in plain views?

Speaker 4 (15:28):

Right. Well, I'm in a very fortunate position just for the way that I've built a network and what I do, obviously on the management side for producers, obviously the band needs to record their music for me to hear it anyway, so they're going to go to someone, and I work with 15 guys, so they're clearly having new bands in there all the time. So I'll get an email that's like, this kid is insane. You got to hear this music. So I get this nice inside track to some of that, which is cool. Other than that, I mean, I work with promoters, agents, managers, anyone and everyone. To me, the trusted sources are where it all comes from. Seeing I'm in Chicago, I am not in LA next weekend, seeing a band play to 300 kids and them lose their minds. So someone is though, and hopefully the person that sees it, I have a contact with that says, you got to see this band.

(16:15):

You got to figure it out and put out this record. So to me, it's all about relationships and network and being in a million places at once because I have trusted people all over the place for the last 15 years that know I'm going to take care of them if they bring me a band that I'm like, oh, I have to have this. And it's also managers that want their bands on equal vision to where they're bringing them gone. Here's a band I'm picking up. Here's their story. These are the two best songs. Check it out. Let's get on the phone if you dig it, and then get you out to a show. And that's the process.

Speaker 2 (16:47):

So let me switch gears a little bit because I'm thinking about our viewers and how they look at the industry, and I think a lot of them are in that weird space where they don't quite have a manager yet. And I'm talking about producers and engineers. They don't necessarily have a manager yet. They're not sure if they want to move on to one.

Speaker 4 (17:07):

They're

Speaker 2 (17:07):

Not really sure what the manager would be doing for them, but they hear about other people having managers and it makes them wonder about it. And I think we've answered the question in a lot of different ways over the ban of this show. However, I'd like to get your unique outlook on having a manager or being a manager for a producer or a set of producers.

Speaker 3 (17:27):

Can I throw one quick question into that? Is how a producer coming up, so many of them listening to the show, how they would go about even approaching somebody like you to pick them up as a manager?

Speaker 4 (17:38):

Yeah, so let me hit that. I basically coming to me is one thing, so that's cool. I think that a producer manager to me is I like to sum it up with saying the guys I represent, I want them to be able to focus on strictly the studio work, and if they want to do their marketing and this and that on the side, that's cool, but I want to take away all of the busy work, all of the paperwork, all of the negotiations, all of those things, the scheduling to where you're in the studio and we're going back and forth and talking all the time with Yo so-and-so wants to do this record in January. This is the amount of money, this is the plan with it. Are you in? Are you out? Do you want more? Do you want, how are we going to do this?

(18:19):

So basically funneling all the information through me to make it digestible for a producer that's working long hours in the studio and doesn't have time to keep up sometimes with the new bands and the new labels and the contacts and relationships that I might be kind of having conversations with all day 10 times a week, talking to these different labels. So that's kind of what I like to sum up the management part as. The finding a manager part is very difficult in the sense that I don't know a ton of them. I don't know if there are a ton of them because that's kind of the reason I felt I wanted to get into it because I learned the a and r side from the label side of it for 10 years, and I kind of saw all these producers either really long lags in conversation where they weren't getting back right away.

(19:05):

So they're missing out on jobs, not really negotiating all that much, not getting taken care of in that sense, kind of just getting an offer and taking it or leaving it, you know what I mean? Or not responding to it at all. They didn't see it. They don't check their email or phone all that much. So that's kind of crazy. But I kind of saw a need for it, and there was all these people I worked with, so I said, forget this. I'm just going to handle them. I understand the business on that side of it, so I know the wiggle room, I know how it all works and getting it all situated, I'm going to pick up these guys that I really believe in. Most of 'em are my dear friends, and let's just get it all done together. So coming to me as a producer, unless I have a lot of free time at that time, or there's a value that we could both really see in it and build the company together, it would be really tough for me. You know what I mean? I got promises out to all these guys and I can't pick up five new guys. Then five of my first clients are like, well, what the hell? Now I'm not getting records.

Speaker 3 (20:03):

It's like the agent who's got 20 bands and only three of them are on tour and three of them are making money, and then everybody else is like, well, why can't you get me in any tours? And it's like, well,

Speaker 4 (20:12):

Exactly. It's the same old thing. I mean, we all got 24 hours in a day, so it's like I can't do more than I can do. So I think just finding someone that's semi experienced in it that understands that can help you, that's plugged into labels or whatever it is, it just depends on what that producer wants. And I know it's easy for all those producers to say, oh, I want to focus on label mixes and this and that. It's like, okay, but what have you done to get to that point? What would an a and r guy at Fearless Records, why would he give you the shot over these guys that have done 20 of those records? And everyone needs to start somewhere. And I love giving guys their first chance and all of that stuff. So I'm just trying to reverse engineer it for them to be like, how do you get to the point where you're their first call or at least on their call sheet at all?

Speaker 2 (20:57):

Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of people managing producers and they're coming from unexpected places. I mean, my manager was the owner of Rise Records for a while. So you're finding people that are fitting into the industry in different ways, a and r dudes, label owners, managers that manage bands, maybe even booking agents. I don't know. There's probably a lot of a melting pot

Speaker 5 (21:21):

Of

Speaker 2 (21:21):

People doing this. So I think when you start to realize that the business is getting in the way of the creativity, maybe that's a good opportunity to determine if you need a manager or

Speaker 4 (21:36):

Not. That's a perfect way of putting it. And you know that more than most, that when you got point where you don't want to deal with that little stuff, and sometimes you can't be the bad guy on negotiating a record because then the band comes in and is like, well, why are we paying this dude this much? You know what I mean? Just to break it down to business terms, I don't want there to be any sort of uncomfortable vibes in a studio. I want it to be very clear cut. I was the guy that handled this. Go in the studio, make your record, get excited.

Speaker 2 (22:03):

Sometimes having that third party to negotiate and mediate is everything for the vibe and for the relationship creatively, because if you do the negotiating yourself as the producer, you sort of have this chip on your shoulder, especially if things don't go your way. I can imagine. So yeah, I mean, haven't had a manager for a while. We've parted ways mutually just because I started to become so engrossed in my entrepreneurial endeavors and started to learn so much about business that it just didn't make sense to let somebody else run it for me.

(22:43):

So I don't think it's right for everyone, but I think there's a lot of people out there that just want to go into the studio and make music, and they don't want to worry about taxes, and they don't want to worry about how much money they're going to make and how much they need to pay for this, and how can they, what's the best strategy to buy gear so that I can write it off and do depreciation over a period of five years and all those things. Expensive. Yeah, it's a whole line of things to worry about when you're a business owner. So I think that's why it makes sense to have someone like a manager come in and handle all that, especially for producers.

Speaker 3 (23:26):

I want to also add real quick that I feel like there's a very clear distinction between what I would consider good managers and bad managers. And I've had both. I've gone through many different managers in my career and I'm kind of a mercenary now. I work with a bunch of them and they send me work, I send 'em a check, and it's nice because they all work and specialize in different markets and genres, so they're connected in certain places that the other guy isn't, and they draw from work from those different pools. So it's kind of cool,

(23:54):

But having a bad manager is really, really difficult. And I feel like reflecting on the experiences that I've had with a few people, I don't want to say any names because it'd be inappropriate, but you got to really feel out somebody's character before you get in bed with them as a business partner. It's like any business, picture it like this. You're going to have somebody else move into your studio and be your assistant or to move across the hall. And so treat it like that when you're approaching a manager. Really sit down, go and have lunch with the guy, hang out with 'em, go to a show, whatever, get to know the person first and make sure that they're a good fit for you and you think that they're going to be an honest person and they're going to work hard for you because if they don't, you'll be full of surprises like, Hey, dude, what's going on? And you can't get ahold of 'em on the phone or whatever. Now that being said, great managers will keep you so on your toes and busy that it's really, really exciting. So I've been on both sides of the coin. Definitely. Cool.

Speaker 4 (24:49):

And I also think when you're looking for, if you're talking to a manager and they have a roster, reach out to those other clients. It's the easiest like honest feedback. Of course, if a client's going to say, oh, dude's a dickhead never gets me shit, you're not going to work with 'em. And in this world, it's all reputation. If you asked any of my clients, I wouldn't even think twice that they would give you a good recommendation. And if they wouldn't, they probably wouldn't be working with me still. You know what I mean? I don't do contracts, none of that stuff. If you don't want to be represented by me, that's totally cool. Good luck. You're a great dude. Move on. You know what I mean? So it's all good.

Speaker 3 (25:25):

That's sweet. I've always liked handshake deals and I get the need for contracts. I know Joey, you're a big contract guy, you love contracts, but I've always liked the handshake deal because it's like there's a certain level of integrity on a handshake where you're just like, listen, I'll take care of you. You take care of me. Let's kick ass together. And as long as you can both hold up your part of the bargain and keep each other accountable, it's not a problem. Now that being said, unfortunately not everybody in the world has that level of integrity.

Speaker 4 (25:49):

Sure, understood. And yeah, I've had to do contracts before if the producer got a little goofy here and there and then you stop working together. So it's all good.

Speaker 3 (25:57):

Definitely. So talk to us about noise creators. So you're creating a marketplace for producers. So we've had Jesse on the show and we love Jesse. Jesse is an awesome dude and really cool to talk to, so you don't have to disclose anything that you don't want to, not out yet, but feel free to

Speaker 2 (26:14):

Share with us what your mission is for Noise creators and explain what it is to people.

Speaker 4 (26:21):

Absolutely. So it's basically, like I said, I don't feel like there was an easy way for a band, especially in not a big city or anything, to find the producer that worked on such and such records. So for me, I wanted to just kind of create a marketplace for it. And I also, since managing a bunch of producers, I always want to just continue to educate about them and put them in front of people that should be looking for them or find other ways to get them in front of them. So the marketplace idea came when I was like, how did these bands find producers go to the guy down the street just because he's down the street? So I wanted to figure out a way to be like, oh, I want to be able to search by my favorite artists, my favorite records, my favorite record labels. If you searched Rise Joey, you'd be all over the damn place. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like I wanted to find that to where I can really help an artist just bounce around a site and figure out who worked on these records, and then there's someone there

Speaker 3 (27:21):

That's a major problem. Give you an example. All music has probably one 10th of the things I've worked on in my career that could, and I should say, should be on all music.com, and it's really irritating. I feel like it's a crapshoot sometimes. No matter how much of a punisher I am with the label, I'm like, this needs to be credited, blah, blah, blah, blah. I make 20 phone calls and irritate everybody, and it still doesn't get done sometimes.

Speaker 4 (27:42):

Exactly. And that's the exact thing. Where does someone even go? It's like Wikipedia are all music and none of that is, unless you're really good at Wikipedia and staying on top of it and all that stuff, it's usually not that great. So these guys all have their own sites. So I wanted to link all that together basically, and have someone be able to go there and just really learn about these guys. And we're doing a podcast episode with each guy that's on the site so you can really dive in and learn about how they work, how they got their start, what they like to do, what's their favorite record that they grew up on, just stuff to really get to know these people that I think, like I said, there was always been a curtain, and unless you work at a label, most of these guys don't ever get back to you.

(28:22):

So it was one of those things to where I wanted to pull it all together and say, Hey, everyone's very strong. If we go together, put it out there. Let's see how all of these people can start learning about you guys and anyone that needs help and wants help. And you could book straight through the sites. Some guys just want to be on there and get educated for education purposes, to do podcasts, features, interviews, whatever it may be. I just want it to be a big community to where people can come to and learn about who's behind all their records. They can even ask us, Hey, I have this budget. We're from here. Who should we work with? And then we'll kind of go through and we'll throw them three suggestions and say, these are the three I'd reach out to. Do you want us to reach out for you and be a service for them to go and do it? Since most of the people on our site we have relationships with or work with in the past or vice versa.

Speaker 2 (29:12):

Yeah, that's cool. There's definitely a disconnect with current social media. I mean, a lot of people use Facebook to find the people you're talking about, but you wouldn't have created the site if that was efficient. So it is incredibly inefficient in some ways. There are some communities on Facebook,

(29:31):

For example, Joey Sturgis forum where you can find people like me or people related to me, other communities like Chingo or Pinto's Place where you can kind of get the low down on what's going on in the world behind the scenes. But I guess no one's really approached it the way that you're doing it, and it's really interesting. The other thing about all music is, I'll say it really depends on the team. I feel like the people who are setting the record up, assigning the intellectual property and setting up the songs and doing all the liner notes and all that, I think that determines the quality of where it ends up on the internet. Because I've noticed the good teams, it's always there. It's always right. It's correct there shows up on time. The half-ass teams or the guys that don't really know what they're doing or running management companies out of their apartments, those are the times where the credits don't end up on all music.com

Speaker 4 (30:35):

Or they line up wrong and you're listed under something you didn't do, and it's like, oh my God, why even be up here?

Speaker 3 (30:42):

Or they morph your name with your assistance and give it a credit, like some hybrid human mix the record. That's awesome. It makes me so angry.

Speaker 2 (30:52):

So yeah, I'm sure a lot of people will appreciate what you're doing there and it's going to be really cool. What do you think about, I guess there's this whole thing that I kind of wanted to talk about where I kind of think that pricing and quoting is still a matter that needs to be handled behind closed doors, and I'm curious what your take is on that.

Speaker 4 (31:18):

Yeah, I kind of see it in an interesting light. I do think that certain producers, that is definitely the way it has to go. If you're on a level to where you don't want to put a rate up on there that says, yeah, I need $3,000 a song, then everyone thinks you're a dickhead. But there's guys that are like, I'll do a song for 500 bucks or seven 50 and I live in wherever. So location matters on certain stuff like that. But I do think a lot of negotiating does happen behind the scenes and will happen behind the scenes. I think what the site's going to provide is, like I said, the educational side of it and really then be like, wow. I mean that's his rates and that's what he's charging. If someone emailed me and asked for as senders rates, I'm going to tell him the same thing that's on the site.

(32:06):

You know what I mean? So for it to be public or not public, they could get it out of me in one email anyways. So I don't think that some of it, like I said, certain producers on certain levels totally understand, but there's guys that are just willing to, yeah, this is what it is. This is what I get paid per day, and if you want to roll that way, or if you're asking me to do more in a shorter period of time, I'm obviously going to charge more because I'm not working eight 10 hour days. I'm working 15 hour days to get this thing done in two weeks. So I do think there's a lot of wiggle room in it, but that's kind of what I'm preaching to the producers on the site is set a rate that you're comfortable with. And the other thing, the beauty of the site is a producer side of it. You don't have to accept any jobs that ever come through it. It could serve as just an educational tool, and you could just say like, oh, no, I don't want that or up my rate, lower my rate. Whatever you want to do. It's all going to be custom for each person, so it's going to be fairly in their hands how they want to be perceived, or if they don't want the price on there at all, and it's just reach out here, so be it. That's cool too.

Speaker 2 (33:08):

I think there's two distinctions that I want to put out there. One is that I do think that the email situation that you mentioned is still different because I think it's a valid way of discussing the rate of who's qualified to provide those services, and it prevents a comparison process, which is the second distinction I wanted to make. Do you believe because I do, that you could potentially cause a bidding war between the ones that are willing to post their rates and also create some sort of damaging situation between the people who don't want to post their rates versus the ones that do. And the reason why I say that is if I'm online and I'm shopping for something and it's like, let's say I'm shopping for something extremely pricey, something that's in the four or five figures, most of the time it's not going to tell you how much it costs. It's like if you have to ask, then you can't afford it. Right?

Speaker 5 (34:16):

I understand. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:17):

So don't you think that there'll be a situation where all the people who don't put their rates are going to be losing work to the people who are willing to just put it out there?

Speaker 4 (34:27):

I think the people that won't put their rates on there are doing well enough without it. I'll say, so the people that I've run into that don't want their rates on, there are the guys that charge more and have consistent great work from labels and such, but the idea of all of their credits being accurate in the same place, searchable people learning about them listening to a podcast. So I don't think that it's going to be a fight more. And I also think the thing that plays into it is the quality of work. Someone that's charging $500 a song is right next to someone charging $1,500 a song, and you could just look down their credits and be like, oh, this totally makes sense. That guy's worked with one band that I've heard of, this guy's worked with 30 bands I've heard of. You know what I mean? I do think that I see what you're saying, but I also think it kind of works itself out between someone looking at it and understanding what it is

Speaker 2 (35:23):

That makes sense. I think the credits will really tie that together

Speaker 4 (35:28):

Totally.

Speaker 2 (35:29):

It's the accolades, what have you done, and show me what it is that makes you worth that amount. So if that's portrayed properly, then you have a winner for sure.

Speaker 4 (35:42):

Cool.

Speaker 2 (35:42):

The other approach I think you could take too, and it's funny, I guess I'm critiquing your site and I don't even use it,

Speaker 4 (35:50):

Which is cool. I totally respect that. I keep going.

Speaker 2 (35:53):

Just going to say that I think it would be interesting to have it be membership based so that you sort of have to be a part of the club to know what this guy charges and what that guy charges. I guess put the pricing behind a paywall. You don't know what the rates are, you're saying. Yeah, unless you Yeah,

Speaker 4 (36:11):

That's an interesting idea. That

Speaker 3 (36:12):

Way everybody there is serious. However, well, there's pros and cons to that too. I mean, from a business standpoint, you have to actually attract people to come to the marketplace and then you have to,

Speaker 4 (36:21):

Yeah, maybe it's something that gets developed when there seems to be hopefully a flood of people coming to it and maybe a certain point it's like, whoa, we're getting 30 requests a week for so-and-so. We got to figure something else out. Not even efficient anymore to go through. So yeah, I mean definitely that can happen and hopefully it can grow into that. But like you're saying, Joel, I think that there's an importance that people got to come and use the site and prove that it's going to be something valuable to these producers to be on it in the first place. So I'd rather give them more opportunity in the beginning and then reevaluate it and say, okay, hang on a second. I'd rather have 500 people that are a part of this rather than 50,000 people just flooding us, whatever it may be.

Speaker 2 (37:07):

So before I have a question I want to ask you, but before I switch gears, is the site open to people right now?

Speaker 4 (37:15):

It is not. It's going to launch in the next couple of weeks. So I'm assuming mid to late November is where we're at. We're going through a couple of last tests and making sure it's all flushed out correctly.

Speaker 2 (37:25):

So I think by the time this episode comes up, this will be out.

Speaker 4 (37:28):

Cool.

Speaker 2 (37:28):

How can people find it? And if you're a producer, how can you get involved?

Speaker 4 (37:34):

Noise creators.com is the hub and the site. We are on every social media, I think under noise creators on every social media. I think we created that. We didn't have to get any goofy names or anything luckily. So that's where it's at. And the way to get in touch right now, it's very, we handpicked all the guys we wanted on it first to really make a splash and really make the quality there. But there is definitely going to, once you get on to the site when it is live, when this is airing, there'll be in the frequently asked questions and in the contact session there's a submit. So you could just come to us and we're just going to go through it, and we're just going to continually add people as we really get a good feel for the flow and the quality of work and all that stuff.

(38:14):

So that's the kind of other process I wanted to mention is it's not just going to be, there's other sites like Sound better.com and a few other things that just have thousands upon thousands of producers, and it's so muddy when you go to that site. It's just like, whoa, this is way too much. I have no idea how to even find someone. It's just so much going on. So we wanted to simplify it and have a very curated group of guys that we know we trust if you're paying them to get in the studio with them, and we're a part of it. We want to make sure it's going to be the best experience possible. We trust these guys and we know them personally.

Speaker 3 (38:48):

I think that's a great approach because it kind of takes the concern because think about it, you're a band. You're going to do your first record. You're picking a producer based off say, reputation alone, but he may or may not be the best fit for your band. And it's a scary thing, especially when you're going to spend a lot of money so that at least you have third party vouching saying, yeah, these guys are legit. So whether or not they're the right fit for your band, at least you're knowing you're working with the best of the best.

Speaker 4 (39:14):

And it's not some guy that's burnt out that's just trying to grab money. We know these guys are active and they're always working with or without us being a website. You know what I mean? And that's kind of what we wanted to take and put a spotlight on.

Speaker 3 (39:25):

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (39:25):

So I want to kind of end this episode with, hopefully you have an interesting one here. If you don't, this is going to suck. Okay, don't suck. But I wanted to see what is the most interesting signing story that you could share with us of a band getting signed?

Speaker 4 (39:44):

Oh, man. The most interesting, and I don't know what makes it that, but I mean, the panic at the disco signing is just the craziest thing in the world. The band literally had two really bad sounding demos that they somehow got to. Pete went, and I think it was through a Fallout Boy message board, I want to say as odd as that is. And he heard 'em reached out and said, I love it. Let's meet whatever it is. Met with them literally off of two demos, and then we flew out as Fuel by Ramen and met with them and saw them practice. I think they only had three songs at that time. So they played 'em to us over and over in a practice space, and we just met the kids and they were kids. I'm saying 17, 18 years old, didn't know shit. They were in Vegas.

(40:32):

So that was funny because us, we go to Vegas and we're like, wait, you can't even enjoy Vegas the way we think of Vegas. You're like children over here. So it was very just a spark in the timing. And I mean, the two songs that they led with made their Record and were two of the bigger songs on their record. So I just think that that story to me always resonated that it's song, it's all song based. The band wasn't online, they didn't have a fan base, they didn't have a YouTube, they didn't never played a show yet, none of it. It really was a song that we heard and said, fuck it, let's work with this band. There's something here. We met them. They're great kids. The singers has such a personality. So I like to just always use that story as frame of reference, that it's not about all these flashy things or an image or this and that Sometimes, even though that band has one of the craziest images and up and down and done weird things for the last 10 years now, but it all boils down to the song. And that's what makes it interesting to me, that someone like Pete took the time to listen to a band on a message board. So you never know where it's going to come from. You never know what it's going to be based on if it's going to be a crappy iPhone demo these days or what. And it's the right place. And it's one of the biggest bands of the last 10 years, and they're still going, so it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (41:45):

I saw that name in the show notes, and I was like, I'm pretty sure he is going to say Fall Up Boy. And classically, they're famous for being signed for not ever playing a show. And I remember when it all went down, I was there. I remember reading online and people were like, I can't believe this band. All the other bands, I can't believe a band that doesn't play. Shows get signed and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 4 (42:11):

Yeah, we dealt with a lot of that, which was funny. It's such bullshit. You sign this band, it's like, just wait until you hear this record. What they're doing right now is light years ahead of the bands that are out there grinding it. And that's nothing against them. It's just, it's different scenarios for every band. And they went, they toured. I mean, they worked their ass off once they had to. That's the other thing people think when you get signed, it gets easy and everyone does their job for you. It gets way harder. It gets way, way harder.

Speaker 3 (42:36):

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (42:39):

So they could have crumbled right then and there and said, forget this. You guys want us to tour 250 days out of the year. I'm not doing that shit. I'm out. Do

Speaker 3 (42:49):

You want to do this? Or McDonald's is hiring.

Speaker 2 (42:50):

The other thing that didn't hurt was his voice. That's a pretty good asset to have there.

Speaker 4 (42:57):

Exactly. And that's the thing, you could hear the good in what they were doing, and you're like, it'll all come together. Just let's get involved. Let's help them. And I mean, we put 'em right in with Matt Squire, who at the time was making so many records for us and for the genre that we put 'em in. And then I remember getting the record back and it was divided into two halves, like the straightforward kind of pop, electronic half. And then they got really weird on the second half with stuff compared to what they did on the front. And we only released singles off the second half. The band was so against the straightforward pop that they're like, we got to just keep pumping these out. And we're like, dude, these are smashes on the front. They're like, we don't care. We don't want to be known as that band. And to their, I guess it's good and bad, I guess they could have been a bigger band, but they went through so many changes and they're still around, so they knew what they wanted from day one. And that's working.

Speaker 2 (43:45):

Well, now they're doing the smashes, at least it seems like. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:49):

Now they're going song by song and it's working. And the dude, I mean, now it's just Brendan Singer really. But I mean, the dude is the nicest guy in the world. If whatever, he deserves all that. He worked his ass off. He's a talented kid and he's put his time in.

Speaker 3 (44:03):

Hey, when you were over at Fuel by Romy, did you work with Steve Robertson? Was he there?

Speaker 4 (44:07):

Yeah, I did. Steve was a great dude.

Speaker 3 (44:09):

Oh, I love Steve. And out of all the a and r guys, I've ever worked on a record by far, one of my favorites. And he was super cool, super easy to work with and just very involved, but in a positive way.

Speaker 4 (44:20):

Absolutely. He's a good dude, and he's in it for those reasons too. Like I said, he finds those bands that actually really want it and doesn't build around. You know what I mean? So he's a great a and r story for a major label because a lot of 'em, they come and go. He's been there for I think 15, 20 years or something crazy like that. So there's a reason.

Speaker 3 (44:37):

Yeah, definitely. He's had some really legendary signings. For the people out there that are, they dabble a little bit in producing and this and that, and they're listening to this podcast and they want to get into maybe being an a and r guy or something like that. How would you do that?

Speaker 4 (44:51):

Yeah, that's another tough one. It's basically you got to prove your worth. You can't just apply for an a and r job. It just doesn't work like that. And you have to prove your worth. You have to say, this is what I've done. These are the bands I've found. And I was finding bands, and no one gave a shit about 'em. So I said, fuck it. I'm going to make my own label, prove it to the world that I'm going to do this. I knew no one in music when I started. I didn't know I wanted to work in music. I just liked music. So put out records. People started to be like, whoa, this is great. And then after two three of 'em starting to move on to other labels, labels were starting to be like, Hey, why don't you just send me bands specifically?

(45:25):

It's like, well, I don't work there. You know what I mean? So it kind of fell into it in an organic way. I didn't try it. I didn't know I wanted it per se. I just did it and found these bands that I loved, and it was like, other people are going to like these. I know that. So I just kept doing that. And over time, then Field Ramen, I met John Janick when he flew out to Meet Academy is and said, he said, why don't you move down to Florida and work with me? I can use some help on some records and bring in developing acts and do your thing. And I just did. I worked alongside him, and he's one of the most successful in the last 15 years to ever do it. So learning from him was a huge asset. But yeah, I mean, you just kind of got to do it, you know what I mean? And you can't wait for anyone else to give you the job. Just do it. Find your own way to do it. Go to shows, find the bands and say, I'll put out your record, or I'll help you put out your record or make your record with a producer with you, and I'll pitch it to labels. You just got to have a track record per se, that they would trust you to bring them records. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (46:18):

That's amazing advice. It's very similar to what we would recommend for guys who want to come up and be producers and do this for a living on our side of the glass.

Speaker 4 (46:25):

Totally agree. You got to just do it and learn. You got to suck at it for a while. And I put out some really bad records when I was 18 years old that you've never heard of, you know what I mean? Then it's about the successes though, and you kind of keep doing what you learned is working and you do it again, and you get better at it, and then you say, man, now I'm hitting these two, three in a row. This is awesome. And I'm sure that's like record making too. I'm sure you early records, you're not really telling people about these days, and you started getting a hot streak and learn 'em and go, damn, I figured it out. I'm doing this great consistently. We

Speaker 3 (46:56):

All have an entire hard drive of those that exist in an ether locked and keyed, so the rest of society can't hear it.

Speaker 4 (47:02):

Understood.

Speaker 2 (47:04):

For those of you out there listening, and if you haven't encountered an a r guy, I'll just say that the difference between a good and bad a R is night and day on a project because they can completely change. I've done a project before where the a and r people were completely, they were opposite of what the band wanted to do and what I wanted to do, and it was a nightmare. It was like revision after revision of weird, do this, do that, and it's like, that's not what we're trying to do. And it really ruins the experience with an experimental a and r or a bad a and r scenario and just depends on where the label's at and where the band's at and what they're trying to accomplish. So I'll say, if you get a good a and r, just count your blessings and treasure what you have.

Speaker 4 (47:56):

It's so true. I dig that. I mean, yeah, you're right. Sometimes their own agendas are pushed, and I've been on the other end of the glass doors. Those a r meetings at major labels that are like, we need a band that sounds like this. And then that's the job. You got to go find one. That's what they do. And

Speaker 5 (48:13):

Then

Speaker 4 (48:14):

You fit into their mold of, we need a band that sounds like Paramore. Now go find that. And then people bring 30 terrible bands that kind of sound like Paramore. Then they find the one they like, and then they plug it in with all their songwriters and go, cool, now we got that band. What's next? So again, there's a lot of the stupid shit that goes on where I like the other end of it, and I like signing a band because they're a good band and they want it. They want to be a good band. They don't want to just, oh, tell us what songs to write and then I'll get 'em written for you. That's not the world I live in.

Speaker 2 (48:44):

Yeah. So if people want to check out self-titled management, where do they go?

Speaker 4 (48:49):

Self-titled mgmt.com is the main hub. I don't have really any social media outside of my own because I am the full company. So if want to get in touch with me, go to the site, my email's on there, reach out whenever,

Speaker 2 (49:04):

And hopefully by the time this episode goes up, noise Creators is out in the open noise creators.com. Johnny, thanks so much for your time and thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. Thank

Speaker 4 (49:15):

You guys. Yeah, it's been awesome. It

Speaker 3 (49:16):

Was awesome. I

Speaker 4 (49:17):

Love all your work and what you're doing here, so this is awesome educational tool you got out to the world. So props to you guys for doing it. Thank

Speaker 3 (49:23):

You so much.

Speaker 1 (49:24):

Thanks, Johnny. Cool, thanks. The Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast is brought to you by Focus, right supplying hardware and software products used by professional and amateur musicians, which enables the high quality production of music Focus, right sound is everything. Visit focus right.com for more information, to ask us questions, make suggestions and interact. Visit URM academy slash podcast and subscribe today.