ANTHONY POTENZA: How to go full-time, Attracting clients, and The hierarchy of a great recording

Speaker 1 (00:00):

This episode of the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast is brought to you by Solid State Logic. SSL is a manufacturer of high-end mixing consoles and recording studio software. For over 49 years, SSLs products have been at the heart of thousands of the most respected, timeless recordings, solid state logic. Thank you for listening. And now your host. Eyal

Speaker 2 (00:25):

Levi. Alright, so Anthony Potenza, welcome to the URM podcast. I appreciate you being here. Thanks

Speaker 3 (00:34):

For having me. I'm really stoked to be on this.

Speaker 2 (00:36):

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to get right to it. I've known you for about four years now.

Speaker 3 (00:45):

Something like, it might be more, actually

Speaker 2 (00:48):

I think it's four, well almost four. October, 2014 or September, 2000,

Speaker 3 (00:54):

Something like that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:56):

And I believe that you were 14 then. Well, how old are you now?

Speaker 3 (01:00):

No, I was 16. I just turned 20 so I had to be 16 I think.

Speaker 2 (01:06):

Got it. Alright. I'm just going to give people a little history. Back in 2014, I started doing these recording bootcamps where people would come for a few days and learn some good stuff about how to actually do it. Anthony showed up to the first one ever. And at that point you were just kind of getting into recording

Speaker 3 (01:32):

A little bit. Yeah, I didn't have a daw. I just had not even Reaper Audacity or some really bad wear program back then, but I saw all the posts about it and I think it was in Metal Sucks or something.

Speaker 2 (01:46):

Sounds about right.

Speaker 3 (01:48):

I was like, oh cool. I like music, I should go learn to record. That'll be fun. Hey dad, why don't I do this?

Speaker 2 (01:55):

Well, that's pretty awesome because I remember at that bootcamp and at these bootcamps, we would have people who were there before they got bigger. We would kind of go around the room and let people get hands on and record stuff for themselves. And what was funny about it was I remember that you just kept coming up to every single time that I had that I was like, okay, one of you guys should try this. You were ahead of everybody and there were people twice your age there who had been recording for a while and different levels and people who should not have been scared to go up and you at 16, not even owning a do kept coming up to the front. And so I remember that and I was like, all right, that's good. So fast forward, you've actually turned this into a living.

Speaker 3 (02:56):

Yeah, this is my first year recording. I quit my part-time restaurant job back in October, 2017.

Speaker 2 (03:06):

That's killer.

Speaker 3 (03:08):

And it's been fantastic. Best decision I've made. It was kind of like that whole being worried about, am I stable enough to do this? Are people going to come to me and pay me? And now that it's been, I think it's been the six or seven month point at where we are now, and it's been fantastic. I'm busy constantly doing work, and I haven't been happier.

Speaker 2 (03:36):

When you made the shift from having that part-time job to I'm going to try this, what was the deciding factor if there was one or did you just say, fuck it?

Speaker 3 (03:54):

Okay, this is a little bit of a funny story. I was supposed to get promoted at this other job and I was doing the studio thing and I really, of course my end game was to go full-time with it, but I wasn't getting promoted and I was one of the better workers there and I was getting really annoyed. So it took a few weeks of, oh, well maybe we'll put you on this. And so I eventually went, you know what? That's it. Worst comes to worst. I can get another part-time restaurant job if the full-time recording doesn't work out. So I went and put in my two weeks and my boss goes, good, it's about time. And I did a double take like, wait, what? He's like, yeah, you don't need to be working a job like this. Go do the studio instead. And so I was like, well, that was my plan, so I guess go for it and try it. And I'm so glad I did because the first month was a little scary because first month I didn't get much work, but then December came and I started getting booked up for January and then January I was busy every day,

Speaker 2 (04:51):

So hold on. So the boss basically was like, you don't belong here.

Speaker 3 (04:57):

Yeah, he told me, he is like, you don't need a job like this. You have an awesome studio. You're a hard worker. You can go make that work and do that. And I was just like, really? Oh, okay, cool. I'm glad we're on the same page then. It was just weird.

Speaker 2 (05:12):

That's really awesome. Actually.

Speaker 3 (05:13):

Yeah, I wasn't expecting it, but it was cool having that support there.

Speaker 2 (05:18):

I mean, I agree with him. I think definitely you're the type who would make it work ethic wise and talent wise, but also at the age that you're at, this is also the best time to take risks.

Speaker 3 (05:36):

Yes,

Speaker 2 (05:37):

Exactly. If it fucks up, first of all, you've got plenty of time to the ship and to have bad years and bad months, and if it doesn't work out for whatever reason, there's plenty of time to figure out something else without screwing over a family or something.

Speaker 3 (05:59):

Exactly, exactly. I'm really lucky too because right now I live with my brother and my dad. My dad is a hundred, as you know, he was at the bootcamp, he's been a hundred percent supportive. So even my monthly expenses are very low right now. And since I live in my studio too, there's no overhead with paying for a separate studio space, which I'm very lucky to have. But that's kind of my thought process, like you said of this is the time to do it, this is the time to work at this. Because another thing is if I, yesterday for example, I had no clients or mixes that I needed to get done. So I had a day where I didn't have work and I spent all day building acoustic panels to make my listening environment better. And so I try and do it so that I'm still working, even if I don't have clients over by practicing mixes or doing edits or practicing tracking myself on guitar and see what I can improve on my positioning or something like that. And so I think one of the things that I've really used the time of being full-time in this is when I don't have clients, I'll make sure I'm working on bettering my skills so that I can really wow the clients when they come.

Speaker 2 (07:15):

That's actually good that you said, because one thing that I've noticed, it's almost the curse. It's like, yeah, I don't think it's just with producers, you see this a lot at local level studios who kind of established a regular client base. They usually work hard a little bit and then establish the client base and then just kind of coast on their skills. And so it never really goes beyond that. And then also the clients look at it like an option that they can afford for that time period, but they're always looking towards the next thing, which you don't. I mean, look, there's some degree of that will always happen unless you're Bob Rock, but there's always somebody bigger, but you don't want clients to be in there with you second guessing it the whole time. So when

Speaker 3 (08:19):

Absolutely not,

Speaker 2 (08:20):

When you know that the guy that you're working with is just totally passionate about it and they're going to be doing this whether you're there or not, and then every time that they come back, you're a little bit better and a little bit better. That's what keeps them coming. I think

Speaker 3 (08:37):

A hundred percent. I have a insanely good client retention rate where most of the, I think it's most if not all of my clients that have come here in the past year all have come back for second projects. And I try and do the thing that I actually learned at the summit from Joel's speech of being the guy that wows the band so much that they're just like, how can we do this without him? Because that's what will keep people coming back in.

Speaker 2 (09:05):

Oh, meaning not how can we actually get this done without him more? How could we actually get it done if he wasn't here?

Speaker 3 (09:14):

Yeah, exactly. It helps a lot with me still in a band myself. And we've always, since three years ago, stopped recording in our state and actually went out of state because we weren't happy with the options that were available in our state.

Speaker 2 (09:33):

You went to Taylor Larson, right?

Speaker 3 (09:35):

Yes. We just went to him February and that was really cool for me, my favorite producer. So getting to work with him for a few days on a, we did a single, and it was the same thing with me where I was just like, oh my God, this is next level, how could we go anywhere else? Sort of thing. And it was really good to see that and then have me sit down and go, okay, so I need to be that guy for every band that walks in my door, I need to give them that feeling that I just got as a guy in a band.

Speaker 2 (10:06):

What's funny too, or just interesting is I think that even if you do stick it out and get to Taylor's level at some point, it still probably shouldn't stop you from going to people like Taylor for your own band.

Speaker 3 (10:24):

Oh, I do not want anything to do with recording my own band. There's just too much of being attached to the music and stuff like that. That's why when we did this, some people have asked me, they're like, you have this nice studio. Why you do this for a living? Why are you going there? And I'm like, I don't trust myself with my own band, other people's bands. But just having that third party perspective and all of that helps so much.

Speaker 2 (10:53):

And also you also had to be mind blowing to be with someone of his skill level because he's a genius.

Speaker 3 (11:03):

The drums were insane. That's when I was like, wow, I got to go home and work because his drums are the best. But yeah, that's part of the reason I did want to go too is I'm like, he's a six hour drive from us, so it's not terribly far. And we have family down there that we stayed with and I was just like, okay, so we'll do this legit and see how it goes. And luckily it went well. We're actually going back for a week in July and I am so excited about it. And it was great because like I said, working with that caliber, it's only going to make me better by just secondhand observing and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (11:42):

And he doesn't mind, obviously, he doesn't mind sharing his skills with people.

Speaker 3 (11:47):

Not at all. I just asked him questions and he was very open with me about it. He actually helped. I was using some monitors that were good, but he was like, for the room, I have, I don't know if you can see on the webcam, but it's a huge control room and I had kind of some smaller monitors and he was like, you need to get rid of those and get something more like this. And so immediately I came home and bought new monitors, but I got them and it's been a world of difference.

Speaker 2 (12:16):

Well, it's very, very smart when you're in the presence of someone like that to actually take their advice. It's funny how many people don't that. If someone like that is willing to give you a tip, that fucking take it. Okay, so that brings up a question I had. So you've been doing it full-time for six months and I know you've been doing it part-time for years. How did you get the first paying client?

Speaker 3 (12:49):

Trying to think. It's going to take me back a little bit. I started doing free singles for bands. I just was doing 'em for free to learn, and there's a point where you got to stop it and when you're good enough right now is not the kind of time where I do that because I'm confident enough in my skills. But when I was first starting out, I was just like, free come record.

Speaker 2 (13:13):

What if Lamb of God asked you to mix a song for free?

Speaker 3 (13:17):

Oh, I do it.

Speaker 2 (13:17):

There you go. So the free thing, it depends. Depends on where you're at and where you want to go. So I don't think that there ever stops being a time when people do free work in order to level up, but it's important to know when you have leveled up and who should be paying you and who would be dumb to even ask.

Speaker 3 (13:40):

Exactly. With all that stuff, it's like, and I try to help local bands and regional bands around here as much as possible, but sometimes you can tell when they're just looking for something free too, and that's when you got to stand up for yourself a little bit and be like, no, sorry, I can't do that. Especially when it is your full-time job. You got to make ends meet and get the money, and if you put the hours and time into it and really offer a good product, that's what you deserve. However, I still do stuff like free test mixes, anything like that for bands just to give 'em a sample. I have no problem doing that because then it's like, whoa. The other day I actually got this really good cool opportunity where I hooked up with the vocalist of a bigger band that I just saw and I took a few vocal lessons from him and I saw his show the other night when the tour came through town and we were talking and he was like, my engineer for my band management company is starting to get really booked up. Would you potentially be okay to master stuff? And I'm like, yeah. And so then we communicated over Instagram the next few days. I did some test masters for him and then he ended up paying me for them and sending me work, and I didn't mind doing it for free and giving him a 42nd clip of each song at all.

Speaker 2 (15:00):

That's exactly how you level up by the way, in this industry. I just want to highlight that. So you took vocal lessons with this well-known dude. Obviously you made a good impression enough and he saw that you were serious enough to where he offered you some sort of a shot. You took the shot and didn't make a big deal out of it and hopefully, or not even hopefully, but just gave yourself the opportunity to actually make good on that opportunity.

Speaker 3 (15:39):

And the biggest thing too is how it ended up happening. I think it was our second lesson. I only took two. It wasn't a huge thing, but I just started out by asking him like, Hey, how's your day going? And just the biggest thing is actually caring about other people instead of being in it like, oh, maybe I can get a business opportunity. I think he said something like it was around January or something. He is like, oh, doing taxes. And I'm like, oh, I get that. I run a studio and I have to do taxes at the end of the year and I know how much it sucks doing it for your own business. And then we got talking, but it wasn't like I scheduled those vocal lessons. It was like, Hey, I own a studio just in case you ever need anything. Not, then you look kind of like you're looking for something instead of just being a cool dude.

Speaker 2 (16:25):

It's kind of a weird way to get a gig is to do something like that and then plant it. It's got to be natural. That's why we tell people that the social skills part of it is so important because look, obviously we all do want the gigs, but it's weird when obviously that's the goal, but it can't be the goal. It can't be the goal of an interaction with the human

Speaker 4 (16:58):

Unless

Speaker 2 (16:59):

You're specifically negotiating something or they've inquired and want to know the rates or he said, would you like to master something? Okay, the door has been open to now talk business, but before that, keep it personal. Find something that you guys can relate on. If you connect, maybe it'll go further. And if you don't, no big deal. There's plenty of other people out there who you can connect with.

Speaker 3 (17:32):

My goal to build clients, it's to build relationships. That is how you do this kind of an industry and actually genuinely caring about every client and band that walks through this door. That's what I find people keep coming back for is stuff like that. I had a band over earlier before we recorded this today, and one of the guys brought their dogs and they were playing with my dog and it made his day and I was like, of course, bring it over. But that's just another thing that they'll remember and the next time when they're in getting ready to book time, if they think what studio should we go to? They'll remember how fun it was the first time and they'll do that. And I find with a lot of times if your base is local and regional bands, obviously they care about you doing a good job, but that stuff is really what they care about too, is they want to have fun because sometimes not every band wants to tour, sometimes they just want to head to the studio for a week and record music and have a blast doing it and to give that experience.

(18:35):

That's what I've kind of set up the way I do things to be while still making it sound the best that it can. Just being cool and accommodating whatever their needs are.

Speaker 2 (18:44):

You got to make them feel like they're at a five star hotel too.

Speaker 3 (18:49):

Yeah, that's a really good comparison.

Speaker 2 (18:54):

Look, even if your studio is not Sphere Studios or something, I think, and I mean that with all due respect, there's only a very small handful of studios that are actually a five star hotel and most people, big bands will get wowed by that. I mean anyone would get wowed. Yeah, but the thing is that most bands won't book based on what a place looks like or their gear. They're going to book based on a few different things, like A, can they afford it? B, do they like the person C? How does their work sound? D what do the other bands that they know who have worked with him say about working with that person? Does he get shit done on time? Does he freak out? Does he show up, hung over? Is he just generally cool all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (19:54):

Exactly.

Speaker 2 (19:55):

Yeah. I don't really think that people book studios based on seeing a picture of some swan ass control room answering an ad and going there, at least not in this genre of heavier music.

Speaker 3 (20:15):

Yeah, I can definitely see that on my website. I don't have a gear list. I'd rather people pay attention to my results and then if they ask, well, what do you have? I'll let 'em know. I always let people know I do have other gear. And another thing that I've learned that's helped me with the full-time thing is like you got to remember the hierarchy of what's important to a recorded sound. Preamps are very nice, and I have a few really nice ones and I really do like them, but number one's the player. And that's been the biggest revelation I think I've had this whole year is just like, wow, I've plugged in a guitar through the same exact channel and same EQ settings, everything, had two different people play it at the same one guy and then hand it to the other and it sounds vastly different.

(21:09):

The two ones from each other and it's like same everything but the player. So that's number one. And then number two is the instrument. If it's a $200, $150 guitar, it's probably not going to sound amazing compared to more of a mid-level one. So one of the things I've made sure with my studio is I have a nice bass, I have a nice guitar, I've got a nice drum set, and I've got nice vocal mics. That's like before I get into any of the outboard gear, outboard compressors, I make sure I have the basics down so that way I'm not spending like $4,000 on a really fancy compressor when I don't have the vocal mic to record it. Remembering that stuff has helped me a lot too and helped me bring out the better performance when you're not obsessed over every little piece of gear.

Speaker 2 (21:57):

What's funny about that is that lots of people say that online, lots of people who are teaching recording or whatever, and lots of producers will say it's the player, how do you get a good guitar tone, fix his right hand, all that stuff,

Speaker 3 (22:15):

And

Speaker 2 (22:15):

Everybody kind of knows it, but I feel like it's one of those things that until you actually experience how brutal of a difference it is, how night and day you almost, I feel like people don't almost totally a hundred percent believe it if they haven't experienced it, they believe it. But I'll see a lot of questions like, okay, how do I get a guitar tone like this and this? Yeah, yeah, I know the player. Yeah, yeah, I know, but really what can I do to get that tone? It's like, dude, you just answered your own question. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (22:53):

I was the same way I, I knew that you needed to be a good player, obviously, but I didn't really understand it until I saw it firsthand and was like, oh my God, that's the same guitar signal chain, everything. And just the hands changed the tone from night and day and I was like, that's what they mean. Same thing with how a drummer hits a drum, how the bass plexes strengths, all that stuff matters and it matters way more, I think than

Speaker 2 (23:25):

Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (23:26):

If you're using Neve or an API

Speaker 2 (23:30):

Or

Speaker 3 (23:30):

Stock Preamp.

Speaker 2 (23:31):

Yeah, Neve or a p. I mean they're great pieces of gear, but like you said, there's a hierarchy to it. So to clarify, what you're saying is that when you focus on what you're doing in the moment or with clients or your priorities, what you're really working on the hardest is getting what comes out of them to be or what gets down and recorded. It'd be the best it possibly can regardless of the gear situation.

Speaker 3 (24:04):

Oh yeah, exactly. I've actually, the other thing, if I have any advice on gear to give other than that to everyone is monitors and room acoustics are more important than anything I can't believe. Speaking for myself, kind of this point this year where I needed, I had a friend who told me, he's like, you need a studio cloud because your reflections from the ceiling are just bouncing right down into your ears. And it was my first acoustic thing and I got it in my cart and I'm like, oh, this is a lot of money. Is this really going to make a difference? And I was so worried, and then I installed it and sat down and I just heard the low end completely separate from everything else. All of a sudden I was just, what? And that's when I was like, wow, acoustically treating rooms is the most important thing you can do If you want to be a mixer or a mastering guy, there's

Speaker 2 (24:59):

A reason. There's a reason for why we say that so much.

Speaker 3 (25:04):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:06):

But it's also one of those things where a lot of people don't want to listen. They would rather be like, yeah, but what compressor? It's like, no. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (25:17):

Compressors are fun. I mean, I love looking at vintage gear all the time. I'm not going to buy it, but it's cool to look at. It's just cool to see the different characteristics and how each compressor especially has a different distortion when it's hardware, which is really cool. And then you get like, oh yeah, I bought this two by four panel and it's not as exciting, but what's more exciting is better mixes, and it won't matter if you have a $4,000 compressor if you can't hear what's going on in your mid range versus your low end. It's all cloudy getting all these reflections. So that's why for me, more than anything have bought after I went to the studio with my band, I bought the really nice monitors that I got recommended and a bunch of more room treatment because to me too, it's not only just a making me better thing, I'm still very much a student learning from URM and nail the mix and all these other things and practicing, and to me, it's going to speed up my learning curve if I can hear accurately sooner. So I'd rather invest as much money as I can into hearing accurately faster so that instead of waiting six months for it, I can use that six months to practice mixes. And since I'm hearing it clearer, my ears will develop faster. That's what I'm more going for than just cool preamp and compressors right now.

Speaker 2 (26:37):

Very, very smart. And when you do level up and start getting better paying clients and all that, you will be able to afford all the gear you want to.

Speaker 3 (26:51):

Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (26:54):

The gear thing will happen if you have clientele, if you want gear, if you want it to happen, all you need is clientele who pays you and you'll be able, you'll make the gear thing come true. You said at the beginning here that you're now building your own acoustic panels though, so you went from buying and now you're teaching yourself how to actually make them.

Speaker 3 (27:18):

Yeah, there's some really good resources online, and once I got the actual panels in, my dad helped me set up. He's like, oh, we can do this. And then so we looked up some videos and it's pretty easy, honestly. It's really a lot of it's just building the wooden frame and then stuffing it with the right kind of material, which it's really important to read, especially if it's acoustic material. They'll have specs usually on the website if it's like Rockwell or something like that, and you got to read how much the thickness will affect certain frequencies. I didn't use it, but I know if you use Rockwell, I think two inches, it barely does any absorption in the low mids and low end, but then when you stuff it to four inches, it's linear across the board. So that was the hardest part, and I was just kind of like, I can either buy panels or I'll try it myself, and I was like, I have a free day. You know what? I'm going to try it. And so far, I've hung them up and it's definitely made a difference.

Speaker 2 (28:19):

I'm

Speaker 3 (28:19):

Hearing better.

Speaker 2 (28:21):

I think that buying the panels is only for people like me who are completely mechanically inept and can't build anything to save their lives, but if you can have any sort of skills with constructing anything, it's far cheaper and they work exactly the same.

Speaker 3 (28:44):

It wasn't even that much more expensive to buy the panel. It was like 20 bucks more per panel. It's the shipping that kills you because they have to ship these huge panels to you. So the shipping was like $80 and that's where all of a sudden I was saving a lot of my money. So it's not like they build them any differently there than you would here, especially if you look up what materials are in it, you can do it yourself as long as you get your hands on that.

Speaker 2 (29:08):

Who did you buy them from when you bought them?

Speaker 3 (29:11):

I believe it was a TS acoustics,

Speaker 2 (29:13):

Which

Speaker 3 (29:14):

Is, they were great. I mean, they've worked perfectly. They're hanging above my head, haven't fallen on me. That was my one concern. Didn't want it to hurt. But yeah, no, it's been great and that's why I'm just trying to make sure my studio is acoustically sound so that my mixes and masters sound the best that they can.

Speaker 2 (29:33):

That's a very, very good set of priorities. So that in mind, how do you go about pulling in new clients now? What's your strategy? Or is there one?

Speaker 3 (29:45):

I'm still trying new things, figuring it out. A lot of word of mouth and referrals. A lot of what I do is, so since I'm in my own band, I'm very involved in my local music scene, so I'm friends with everyone who's in the band. That's how it works a lot of the time. What I end up doing is I'll just constantly be posting on my studio Facebook page and my Facebook page too, whenever I have a guy in the studio or whenever I'm doing a mix, even when I'm not, I'll just post a nice picture of one of my guitars and be like, ask a question. What's your guy's favorite guitar? That way it's kind of a top of mind thing and there's some interaction and that way it feels more like, oh yeah, it's not as much of a business. It's just like Anthony, he's in that band.

(30:33):

He runs a cool recording studio and we like talking about guitars and amps with him because a lot of local musicians love talking about gear. It's fun. What amp are you using? What guitars do you use? What kind of bridge does it have? Everyone loves talking about that and it's really fun. And as an audio guy and what we were just talking about gear, I love talking about gear and stuff like that, so it's really natural to talk to people like that. So that's one avenue that I kind of stay top of mind. And then eventually I'll have people message me and go, Hey, we want to check out your studio. And so a lot of the time what I'll try and do is I'll even just try and have a free studio to where they come hang out for an hour or two, check out some mixes in the room and just hang out and get to know each other a little bit.

(31:15):

And then they'll go like, oh, well, could we do a single here or could we do an album here? And a lot of times I will get stuff like that, and that's a really good way to get clients. Another way is just like I'll ask bands when they're done and they're super happy. Hey, do you know any friends that might want to record? I'd love to help them out too. And a lot of the time, they'll all have a band or two and then I can hit them up, talk to them a little bit, and ask them about their music. The other thing is don't ask immediately. Don't just in the first message, if you're messaging 'em on Facebook, be like, yo, you want to come recording my studio? You got to talk to them and get to know them a little bit. Establish a genuine relationship. And then once you do that again, I won't even try and do a cell thing. I'll just be like, you guys want to come over and hang out for an hour or two? Just talk.

Speaker 2 (32:04):

I think, dude, honestly, and I've been doing this for a while, that's how I've seen it work. I mean, I've seen advertisement work to some degree in some genres, but it doesn't usually net you, the kind of clients you're looking for.

(32:29):

You're obviously looking for clients in a specific world. Not saying that you want to limit yourself, but obviously you're looking for clients in the world that, and that you're comfortable with and that you love and you're playing and you know how to talk about that world and you're passionate about that world, and so all you need to do is put yourself there and be good and be cool, and then it takes care of itself. That's how I've seen just about everybody's career and every successful studio start working. There has to be some sort of a personal reason that people will come to you.

Speaker 3 (33:11):

The other thing is I think bands can tell when a guy is passionate and really loves what he is doing and cares

(33:21):

Versus the guy who's just doing it because he's like, oh, I don't want to get a job. I'll just record bands. And you can normally tell, because I do know it's definitely a thing with some engineers in general where they'll just act better than everyone else. And I've met so many amazing engineers through URM and just through my own personal life, like Taylor Henrik from Studio, and I don't think he's there anymore, but he's at his own thing and he's awesome too. Billy Decker and every single guy I meet is the most down to earth normal and is willing to just be a cool guy and share stuff. And so I'm like, if those guys are like that, there's no reason for anyone else, me included, to ever act that way. There's

Speaker 2 (34:10):

Actually a reason, I mean, it's not coincidence either that those guys are like that. Every now and then you'll get a diva producer or engineer at the very top, and usually what happens is that they had some sort of freak success and people put up with it. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (34:34):

They've got magic ears,

Speaker 2 (34:36):

But it's not because of them acting like a diva that they're successful. It's despite them acting like a diva, and the moment that their sound goes out of favor or they hit harder times or whatever, the moment the streak starts to slow down, people will jump ship. Whereas if you look at the people like Decker or Henrik or any of these guys, Andrew Wade, all these guys that are serious too. Yeah, that are seriously cool. People mean, obviously they've all had great success and continue to, but their clients come to them over and over and over. So whether or not the last record they did was a hit or not a hit or down times out times, whatever, people just come to them because they're great and they're cool to hang out with, and that's what people should aspire to be like.

Speaker 3 (35:38):

Yep. That's another thing is when I do days when we're done, if the band wants to hang out or have some food or something, I'm always like, yeah, let's do it. That builds relationships, and I'm not like, I'm so done. I've recorded for eight hours. I'll be like, yeah, let's hang out. Let's have a good time. Because like you said, it's building those interpersonal relationships that'll get you further than having the best sound. Even. There are some dudes I know that will go to people that they know aren't a-list producers, but they just work well together and have a fun time, and they're like, he's our guy. That's just what we do.

Speaker 2 (36:13):

I'll tell you that when my band was mixed by Colin Richardson in 2006, and at that point in time he was the guy. Yeah, the capital. I love

Speaker 3 (36:29):

Captain's Mixes. He's one of my favorites.

Speaker 2 (36:31):

I still think he's one of the greatest of all time in heavy music at that time was, I think that was kind of around when he was peaked and was starting to personally decide to slow down just a little bit. But still, even then, he had already been in it for 25 years and had already changed the sound of Metal dude. Even then with me from an unknown band who was on our first record and whatever, he didn't have to treat me well, and it would've been perfectly cool still when he mixed our album. He had breakfast with me every day, dinner with me every day.

Speaker 3 (37:14):

That's so awesome.

Speaker 2 (37:17):

And he never at any point in time made me feel like he was doing me a favor, even though he really was. He totally didn't have to say yes to the project. It would've made no difference whatsoever in the trajectory of that guy's career, but not even once did he make us feel that way. So you're right. If people like that are that cool, there's no reason for why anyone coming up should be any different,

Speaker 3 (37:50):

And that's what I use to keep myself grounded too, to make sure, not that I ever really think I'd be that way, but I'm always just like that little voice in the back of my head just in case all these guys are cool. So just be a cool dude and it'll work out. I think if people work hard and are just cool.

Speaker 2 (38:06):

Absolutely. Well, Anthony, thank you so much for coming on. Awesome. Thanks

Speaker 3 (38:11):

For having me. It

Speaker 2 (38:12):

Was

Speaker 3 (38:12):

My pleasure.

Speaker 2 (38:13):

Awesome talking to you as usual, and we'll be in touch. To get in touch with the URM

Speaker 1 (38:18):

Podcast, visit urm.com/podcast and subscribe today.