Daniel Bergstrand: Producing Meshuggah, His Massive Drum Sounds, and Working With Sloppy Musicians

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by the 2017 URM Summit, a once in a lifetime chance to spend four days with the next generation of audio professionals and special guests, including Andrew Wade, Kane Churko, Billy Decker, fluff, Brian Hood, and many more. The inspiration, ideas and friendship you'll get here are the things that you'll look back on as inflection points in your life. Learn [email protected]. And now your host.

Speaker 2 (00:00:32):

Hey Eyal Levi. Hey guys. Welcome to the Unsavable Recording Machine podcast. I want to take a moment to address something because we pride ourselves here on being forward with our audience and pulling no punches. You probably noticed that there's been a reduction in podcasts lately. There haven't been that many coming out, and I just want to tell you why. Back in September, I bit my tongue in my sleep multiple times. It was awful and it just made talking really hard and it just kind of sucked. Anything longer than like a sentence or two was just pain and it just awful. And I did this night, after night after night, problems has been solved. It took a few weeks for my tongue to heal up. I am now healed and talking as you can hear, but the idea of podcasting was not really appealing because one thing you have to do while you're podcasting is really try to engage your guest, and it's hard to engage your guest when you can't speak very well.

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So I hope you guys forgive me for that. I hope you guys keep listening because I've got a really cool show right now for you, we've got Mr. Daniel Bergstrand, who is one of my favorite all time producer mixers. Now, some of you who tune in to Nail the Mix might be saying, why is this coming out after you nail the mix with Daniel? And well, because I bit my fucking tongue last month and couldn't podcast, so we did it. Now, if you don't know Daniel, it's just that you don't know that you don't know him because he's worked with bands like Inflames, Shuga, soul Work, demon Bo Gear Behemoth, tons of others. If you own superior drummer or Easy drummer, if you know the Metal Foundry Metalheads or Drum Get From Hell, he's the dude who produced those drum sample packs. And lemme just go down this list of albums he's worked on, and I'm going to read them out because I don't want to go by memory.

(00:02:47):

But Shu Destroy Race and Prove Devon Townsend Ocean strapping young lad, city, Devon Townsend, ocean Machine, Shuga, chaos, fear, darken, rusted Angel, bunch More Darks inflames. We route to remain behemoth. Demigod Inflams. Soundtrack to your escape. Soilwork stabbing the drama, dark Funeral, Tara Toto Sanctus in Flames. Come, clarity, DMU Borg, Abra, just like on and on and on. So many great bands that have such an impact on metal. Like this guy is the shit and he really does his own thing. He's big on natural sounds. He mixes on a board, uses very, very few plugins, is really like for the purists. He's great for the purists, but also what's really cool about him is that he does his own thing and he keeps things pure and raw sounding, but they're modern and that's what he does differently. A lot of times when guys are like, oh, I'm going to keep it raw, raw is just another word for shitty.

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In Daniel's productions, they sound fantastic and modern and just like you can feel the band in the room at the same time. So I'm stoked to have him on. He's one of my heroes. And before I bring him on, let me just tell you real quick about the URM Summit. This is an event that we are throwing on URM at Orlando, Florida in December of 2017, the 11th through the 14th. And it's basically four days of seminars, panels, hands-on, bootcamps, networking, and hangs with us and our guests. And let me read you who our guests are. We've got Andrew Wade, Billy Decker, Brian Hood, Finn, McKenty, Kane, Chico Fluff, and then of course myself and Joel want to second Joey Sturges. And we are going to be not just educating you guys on recording and mixing, but business. And of course, the part that I haven't even mentioned is this is going to be at the DoubleTree Sea World Resort and there's going to be tons of people coming in from all over the world.

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I think we've got already nine countries represented. I mean, where else do you get a chance to hang out with so many audio people who just want to learn and get better and share knowledge in what place? You really don't get to do this very often, plus the guests, all of us are staying at the same hotel. Everyone's going to be hanging out at the same time. It's just going to be a great time. And if you want to check that out and come hang out with us in December, just go to urm summit.com and get yourself a ticket and hope to see you in December. So without further ado, I present you the podcast with myself and Daniel Bergstrand. So Daniel Bergstrand, welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast. Normally we do these before nail the mix, but I think September was crazy for both of us, and so now we're doing it afterwards. But what's kind of cool about this is that now that people have seen you work, they actually had some questions about it, but we'll get to that later. First things first, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (00:06:14):

I'm doing fine sir. And you?

Speaker 2 (00:06:17):

I'm doing well. So I wanted to jump right into your history and I wanted to talk about how young you were when you started doing this stuff and how quickly things happened. So you told me you started recording at 14, right?

Speaker 3 (00:06:39):

That was maybe a bit too early. Too early. Yeah, I think I was around 16, 15 or 16. So I mean, it happened. Really. That's pretty

Speaker 2 (00:06:49):

Young.

Speaker 3 (00:06:50):

Yeah. Yeah, that's super young. And I know I just had a huge amount of luck basically. I mean, it was for so many other, I played guitar in a band and bored and dropped school after ninth grade, and I wasn't really up for anything else. And writing music and achieving the best possible recording back home, I guess, yeah, like I said, it is just luck. I mean, I got to know a guy or two guys who was building a studio and he offered us a deal to record a demo in their studio. So I believe I was 15 at the time.

Speaker 2 (00:07:32):

I think there's always a little bit of luck involved with meeting that right person who gives you that right first opportunity, and which leads to meeting that right first band or meeting the band that makes it happen, or the contact in the industry that makes it happen. I think all that stuff is luck. But I mean, you obviously had to work your ass off too.

Speaker 3 (00:08:01):

Oh absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:08:04):

Okay. So you dropped out of school in ninth grade. Did you do it because of music or just because you hated school or a combination of both?

Speaker 3 (00:08:13):

I guess a combination of both. I mean, like I said, the only thing I cared about was music, lousy grades, and that was about it. And like I said, we got to that studio, we got that offer, and I'll never forget that feeling that I felt directly that this is what I'm going to do for a living. So it was that clear to me.

Speaker 2 (00:08:41):

Man, that's actually really lucky that you figured it out so young because a lot of people never figured it out. But could you describe that clarity? I'm just curious about that because I've always had a sense of clarity about what I've wanted to do and it's guided me, but it sounds like you had the same thing.

Speaker 3 (00:09:07):

Yeah. How can I describe that clarity? I mean every you electronical things, right? And then you see all these lights and all these, I dunno, it was just a feeling like, yeah, I want to record albums, I want to be in a studio. That's all I care about. I mean, in the beginning I felt like, okay, so what am I actually going to study now after ninth grade? I don't know the English terms for all this media, whatever, but it was nothing that really fitted into what I wanted to learn. And also because of the grades was not a lot of options either. So I dunno. But like I said, at that studio, everything happened so quickly. I don't know what order this happened, but for some strange reason, that guy letting me stay there even at night to play around with their equipment and to practice by myself, maybe I asked too many questions during daytime, so they wanted to get rid of me, but I don't know. But that's actually how it started. Just they noticed that I was super interested in what they had there and how things worked and so on. And one thing led to another and I asked if I could intern here and he said, yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:10:38):

How old were you when that happened?

Speaker 3 (00:10:40):

Yeah, I believe I was 15. So,

Speaker 2 (00:10:44):

Okay, so you moved fast?

Speaker 3 (00:10:46):

I moved fast, yes.

Speaker 2 (00:10:50):

I had a similar story actually when I was 14, my first band went to record

(00:11:01):

And we went to the place in town that did all the best local bands, the popular local band studio at that time in, I think it was 1994, actually, like 94, 95, 93, that time period. And the guy who ran it, I guess noticed that I was curious about this stuff and actually kind of did the same thing. He lent me an SM 57 and a 36 30 compressor and would let me run the tape machine and just helped me, I feel like it's almost, and he was what, 35, 36. So it's getting a real adult approval on this stuff. It really, really helped tremendously.

Speaker 3 (00:12:00):

Oh yeah. Huge salute to those guys. I mean, kicking you into this lifestyle, I mean, just to help you out. So I dunno what to say. I'm just so grateful to these two persons that got me into this mean still. Even today when I meet him, I go like, if it wasn't for you, man,

Speaker 2 (00:12:26):

Well, that's entirely possible too, man. If you hadn't met them, who the hell knows? I mean, I feel like talent and skill will only take you so far, but you definitely, you need that tiny amount of luck or big amount to meet that right person. It's not, it's not the same kind of luck involved with winning the Lottery or something like that. But it's kind of similar. It's kind similar. It's like of all people you could have met, you happen to meet the right person to kick you into what ended up being your entire career. Okay. So let's talk about the internship. So you're 15, you're interning at a studio where they already like you because you were the smart kid. What kind of stuff were you doing when you were interning?

Speaker 3 (00:13:25):

Yeah, it was, they quite quickly started to, they turned into a record label as well, and it was some cooperation with Roadrunner Records actually. Oh, nice. Yeah, so I mean, it was a busy studio. We were doing, lemme think, three compilation albums. So there was a lot of bands every day, sometimes to up to four to five bands per week.

Speaker 2 (00:14:00):

Oh wow. You guys would record every track on the compilation?

Speaker 3 (00:14:03):

Yeah, that's correct. Because it was the labels compilation album. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, it was a lot of bands and I got more and more responsibility and it just led to me being the one doing everything. And the other two guys were more focusing on the label part. So yeah, just like I said, it happened so quickly, everything. I mean, maybe they noticed quite fast that okay, let him do this because maybe I was obviously kind of okay. I mean, I didn't do anything else. I mean, I slept in the studio. I was there at 24, 24 7, never at home. If there was any pause between the sessions, I was recording myself and learning a new piece of equipment. You're obsessed. Yeah, man, I'm totally obsessed.

Speaker 2 (00:15:03):

So I've thought about that obsession that I think everyone needs to go through. It's interesting. I feel like lots of the guys I know who are really good at recording or music, once they hit their thirties, they start taking one day off a week, or they say, I get my best work done in the morning or in the first six hours, and then I try to have a normal life. And they say that you shouldn't do the 12 hour days or the 16 hour days anymore. But all those people, every single one of them, whoever got good had a time period in their early twenties or in their teenage years where it lasted for three to five years where they did 12 hours a day and did nothing else with their life.

Speaker 3 (00:15:56):

So right about that, I think it's lasts even longer. Even up to your whole thirties, you're still there. I'm still working more or less the same as before. And then you're getting into like, okay, I'm going to, okay, things are going to change now. I mean, we need to work better hours, but it always tends to be the opposite. I lose track of time if I'm into something and then all of a sudden it's three o'clock at night and like, oh damn, okay. And I haven't eaten either, and I have a bit of a curfew. If it's starting to be next day, like light, if it's not dark anymore, then I might as well continue working till I get super tired because there's no need to go back home and sleep. I'll just destroy the next day. So I might as well work as much as I can during that day. Yeah, exactly. But I don't know, I mean, it's a sign that I still think it's fun, and so I just going to keep going.

Speaker 2 (00:17:08):

Well, I think it's interesting about that, about you still finding it fun. You also are very, very particular about how you record. It's mainly analog. You definitely do your own thing and you stick to your own thing. Do you think that that's part of why you still feel so much enjoyment for it? Maybe.

Speaker 3 (00:17:33):

Maybe. So there's something about categorizing things or having things in order that I like when I feel that's a bit of a mission too. I mean, I want everything to look good. The wave files sorted out good names or good titles and just organized. I love that. And that's a part of the challenge and that keeps me up. And then nothing beats the feeling of when you achieved a good snare drum sound or whatever a good guitar sound like, and it gives you extra power and then or strength. And I love that. And like you said, I don't know if this really answered your question, but sticking to analog things. Yeah, of course. I love that. Well,

Speaker 2 (00:18:27):

I just mean that you stuck to what you felt was the right way for you to make the music. For instance, I think that my partner Joey, he's not an analog guy at all. He does, he uses zero outboard and it's a hundred percent in the box, and he doesn't like analog gear. And I think that part of what kept him going was just doing his own thing. Maybe you're right. Well, as for the art side of your, I think that this is both science and art, and I think that for the art side, a lot of guys don't focus on what they actually feel artistically comfortable with enough. I just think there's something to be said for the fact that you still love it as much as you did, and you do your own thing. And by the way, as far as keep order, your studio is gorgeous.

Speaker 3 (00:19:28):

Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (00:19:30):

Yeah, I mean obviously it's clean, but it's so orderly and just, yeah, it's just a great place. It's a great studio.

Speaker 3 (00:19:43):

Oh, thanks man. Yeah, I don't know. I mean Lose sometimes I need a few reminders from people. They go like, man, your console that it's so massive and beautiful. Oh yeah, you're right. And then I get that first feeling when we got it into the studio going, what do you call it in English? You get used to seeing these things, so you forget how cool it is.

Speaker 2 (00:20:10):

Oh, you kind of become

Speaker 3 (00:20:11):

Complacent. Yeah. Yeah. But thanks. I really enjoy working here too. That was actually the thing where in the beginning it was a lot of traveling and I felt like I want to have my own good studio to always lean back on, if anything, and especially to mix. And I think we succeeded. It was supposed to be this last studio that we were in, we were supposed to be here one or two years and then build this big house or something. But now 10 years has passed, so yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (00:20:58):

I mean, it kind of covers all the paces. So let's go back to when you were younger. Was Shuga your first breakthrough? Do you consider that your first breakthrough?

Speaker 3 (00:21:17):

Yeah, I think you're right about that. I don't know, I worked, I wouldn't have gotten Shuga if it wasn't for some of the local bands that I did, but the first real Breakthrough Shuga, I worked on two albums with a local band called Los Souls, and that led me into meeting Frederick and msu. And then after that, things happened so fast.

Speaker 2 (00:21:48):

Okay, and so you were 19, you had already been working at that studio and doing it for a few years? Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:21:57):

Wow.

Speaker 2 (00:21:58):

So you had done the compilations and

Speaker 3 (00:22:01):

Yeah, and then also a lot of albums, I forgot what bands, but it was a lot of albums, a lot of bands, but I would say that maybe Lost Souls and a band called Crawley led me into Mishu. This I heard just a few weeks ago that we did some sort of also compilation thing, like a EP with these two bands, and that was the one that Freddy got hooked up on. So he contacted the label that I worked at or label Studio, and they asked about like, Hey, I also, I want to book a sessions. And then the owners said like, yeah, then you should talk to Daniel. And he's four and a half year old. So yeah, that's how it started.

Speaker 2 (00:22:57):

They were already around for a little while, but were they a prominent band in your area, or not quite yet?

Speaker 3 (00:23:10):

Yeah, no, not quite yet. A few of us knew about Contradiction Collapse. I've heard that one. And I liked it, of course, but after none, that's when it really started to happen, at least around here. And they just released none. And we were listening to none a lot, like, oh wow, it's so cool. This band from north of Sweden. And then just by coincidence, he called me right after that. Same thing happened with Devon Thousand too, the manager that I had at that time. He asked me, okay, so if you got to choose which one would you like to work with? Name, name, just one band that you would like to work with, or one person. I say, yeah, Devin Townson. That would be so sweet. He just released Heavy yesterday, what is it called? Heavy as a really heavy thing. And the day after Devin called me. So just luck.

Speaker 2 (00:24:19):

Did the manager have anything to do with that?

Speaker 3 (00:24:23):

I don't think so. I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (00:24:25):

Just the stars aligned?

Speaker 3 (00:24:27):

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:24:28):

Okay. So I dunno, I think a lot of people consider Destroyer Race and proved to be their MGA's breakthrough record, but also the record that started an entire genre of music and kind of changed metal forever. Did you have any idea when you were working on it that you were working on revolutionary stuff?

Speaker 3 (00:24:51):

I had no idea about that. I mean, I knew that it was going to be extremely good, and I was a bit shake nervous in the beginning. Okay. At least I have to make it sound as good as none. But that was just in the very beginning. And then, I mean, they're so cool guys, and we just hanging around with friends in the studio and having fun. I don't think any one of us knew that or had a feeling that we were doing something, starting a new genre or anything, or that it was going to be there. Breakthrough Album, I don't think So. You were

Speaker 2 (00:25:36):

Just enjoying

Speaker 3 (00:25:37):

Yourself? Yeah. Yeah. I think it was just a good combination between us all. And I was obviously doing something that Frederick liked and it was just a good match.

Speaker 2 (00:25:49):

So you showed me some of those videos of you guys back then. It seemed like they shared the same kind of love for creating that you did. Did you guys find yourselves, I don't want to say soulmates because that means, but musically that, were you guys all aboard with working the crazy hours and just seeing how awesome it could be?

Speaker 3 (00:26:21):

Absolutely. Me and Fredic is exactly the same. We work till when you feel that your heart is outside your body, then it's time to quit. But other than that, we work crazy hours. Me for, it actually happens nowadays too, when we work on something, even for colos and stuff like that, it could be two days in a row and they're like, oh yeah, maybe we should sleep. But we're really creative and we're super picky and thorough, and I don't remember all these details from Destroy Race, improve a few things got back to me after seeing the video and after talking a bit to F Fredic about it, and he said again, that, man, we spent so many hours on Configurating that and that and that, and we didn't give up. We really, really worked. This was the very best we could do. And so yeah, we're too, we're all picky, but good match again.

Speaker 2 (00:27:32):

So his pickiness matched your Pickiness and

Speaker 3 (00:27:36):

Yeah, it still does. Even today, I mean, we have the same opinion about things. Maybe he's a little bit more picky and guitar sound than me, but drums and mixes and all I think were the same.

Speaker 2 (00:27:54):

How long did you guys spend on Destroyer and Proof?

Speaker 3 (00:28:00):

I believe it was three weeks, three or four weeks.

Speaker 2 (00:28:04):

So three intense weeks.

Speaker 3 (00:28:07):

Yeah. So maybe six weeks then?

Speaker 2 (00:28:08):

Yeah, six weeks for a normal person if you count the amount of time spent.

Speaker 3 (00:28:17):

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, we worked, like I said, 24 7. And then when I was tired, I went back home and slept. And then F Fredic was probably up tracking himself or tracking something I got back in the morning and then took over from there. And we actually went directly to Master the album too. We mixed, I think two days in a row and then took the car, drove to Stockholm, and then master it. So that's how it worked at that time. Go directly in Master is crazy.

Speaker 2 (00:28:52):

Yeah. Okay. So did that have to come out before you started to get these other bands like Soil Work and Devon Townsend? You said that things moved very, very fast after that. Did the record have to come out or was the momentum already started for you?

Speaker 3 (00:29:17):

It had started, actually. I mean, we did the album and then we went directly on tour too. Burned my Eyes, tour with Machine Head for about nine weeks. So when you say,

Speaker 2 (00:29:33):

You say we, what do you mean?

Speaker 3 (00:29:35):

I was

Speaker 2 (00:29:35):

Doing this. Were you doing sound for them?

Speaker 3 (00:29:37):

Yeah, I was doing the front of house

(00:29:41):

And the record got released on tour halfway into the tour or something. And at that time, I already had a couple of things going, so I knew exactly what I was going to do when I get back home from tour. And I couldn't really make up my mind at that time because I thought, ah, touring, that's awesome. Okay, I'm going to tour, I'm going to record album, but albums. But I realized that being on the road is maybe not anything for me. It is fun, but that's tours and that you can't, this is what you got to play with. I mean, sound wise, and I hate that feeling. I

Speaker 2 (00:30:26):

Have to make it sound amazing within 45 minutes

Speaker 3 (00:30:30):

If

Speaker 2 (00:30:30):

That, and that's it.

Speaker 3 (00:30:32):

Yeah. And you know how it is when you're on the support band you get, I mean, today you got a line check, guys, okay, line check. And I'm the one who needs to go up on stage and tap the microphones to see that I got signals and then go back again and then hope for the best. And I don't like that stress that. And then, I mean, once again, we were young, but even at that time I felt like, okay, being on tour, that would turn me into an alcoholic, but maybe it wouldn't be the same today. But that was too stressful. And then I couldn't do both because I had so many albums lined up and things lined up. So I mean, I had to pick something.

Speaker 2 (00:31:18):

I think you made the Wise Choice.

Speaker 3 (00:31:20):

Yeah, I went on one more tour, one or two more tours with Chuga, but that was about it. And then I had some spare time things, local, local bars and just to get some extra cash. But I don't do that anymore. It's not anything for me.

Speaker 2 (00:31:41):

Do you think though that the idea of tracking, I mean, of working in a live environment and having to set things up to work right then and there, it is what it is. You can't then edit it into perfection or anything. It's the real thing. Do you think that that's affected your production style at all?

Speaker 3 (00:32:08):

You're referring to live or referring to tracking an album?

Speaker 2 (00:32:14):

Well, do you think that any of your live experience affected your album production, workflow or philosophy?

Speaker 3 (00:32:26):

Nah. I mean there was not many options if that's what you're referring to. I mean, I couldn't really sit and edit and it was tapes and a dots and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (00:32:47):

So you were stuck anyways with what you got?

Speaker 3 (00:32:50):

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:32:52):

But to this day though, do you think that that's affected your production style even when Pro Tools came into the picture and all that?

Speaker 3 (00:33:01):

Probably yes. I mean like to keep, if I have a cool piece of machinery, I want to track it down and I want to have the same sound next time I open up that session and I like tracking things. Every channel should sound good. It's just going to be able to solo everything and should sound good. I don't cover things in the whole mix. Ah, you won't be heard anyway. That's cool. I really don't work like that. Well solo, the Hyatt and Solo, the bass, it just sound good.

Speaker 2 (00:33:46):

That's interesting because I know some people definitely feel like if you can't hear it in the mix, it doesn't matter. Crap. And I've heard some, but some good producers feel that way. But then also I completely agree with you that you should take every detail and make it as good as you possibly can.

Speaker 3 (00:34:12):

Why not? Yeah, exactly. What was I about to say? Yeah, why not do it? You're there. I mean, why not just do it good? And of course, I mean it depends on the style. I mean, I'm not saying you should sound awesome if it's a grind core band everything, but it should at least be organized and no bullshit theory or nasty punch-in or stuff like that. Just clean it up and make that sound good. And I'm not talking about editing either, like quantizing and stuff like that, which I have done in the past, but not doing that much anymore nowadays. But

Speaker 2 (00:34:55):

You're just talking about having professional sessions that actually work that aren't slopped together, like bullshit, taking seriously. Even if the genre itself is like grind, which is very, it's explosive and shouldn't be messed with too much, you still don't want to have a garbage session.

Speaker 3 (00:35:23):

No, that's correct. That's correct. Like I said, it should be good. You shouldn't have pungents in there, man. Fix the cross fades if there is any and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (00:35:39):

So let's talk a little bit about your production style, because you've done something really, really unique, which is that even through the age of digital editing and being able to replace everything, you've managed to keep your productions very, very organic sounding and real and raw, but at the same time, modern and huge and polished, which is two opposite things, but you've managed to get them both in your productions. Can you talk about that at

Speaker 3 (00:36:21):

All? Absolutely. First, thanks, man. I mean, I guess it's based on, I really like Natural drum sounds. I mean like Andy Wallace's drum sounds and that's,

Speaker 2 (00:36:41):

Oh, they're great.

Speaker 3 (00:36:42):

Yeah, I just love it. And that was the actual mission for me in the beginning. I thought all my session sounded like shit, and I also wanted to make it sound as good. And so I guess this is the result of all these hours spent trying to find that good cool combination between when went over, when I went over to Pro Tools, for example, and I started using Pro Tools like 10 years ago or something. So I'm pretty fresh. But finding that combination to maintain the acoustic vibe, even though, and also get that snappy in your face drum sound. And yeah, that was challenging in the beginning, but now I think I know what to do and how to achieve that. But it's all based on, I think, the right mic placements and all these trial and errors. It's a result of that. Every time I record something, I have an extra mic somewhere. I always do something new to see if I can improve myself or find new solutions to things and spend a lot of time with room mics in general, because that's where the acoustic vibe is to me. So as long as you got that, as long as you have that good ambient mics, then you can mix in triggered channels if you want to. And I don't find it that tricky anymore.

Speaker 2 (00:38:28):

There's nothing like a great drummer in a great room?

Speaker 3 (00:38:32):

Oh yeah, absolutely. First of all, you need that drummer though.

Speaker 2 (00:38:36):

Yeah. I feel like sometimes people don't realize how important that part is, that it's all for shit if the musician isn't great.

Speaker 3 (00:38:50):

Absolutely. Yeah. Like guitars, guitar, guitar player, man. Yeah, but drummers, I mean, you can't really, if it is someone that plays really sloppy, then you're doomed. Then you need to figure out, then you need to have a lot of cards in your sleeve. Like, okay, this is that type of drummer. Okay, then I know I can do that and that and that. So, and actually sometimes that's fun. Sometimes it is fun to record a person, which is not that good, because then, yeah, the challenge is fun to make it sound good.

Speaker 2 (00:39:32):

That's actually really fascinating that you say that because I know lots of people who would get really, really frustrated by a bad musician. But it's interesting. So your challenge is to keep your aesthetic, your production aesthetic, but getting that out of, say, a sloppy drummer. So still making it sound raw, still making it snap, but somehow figuring out how to do that with a bad drummer, which is normally the solution for a bad drummer, is just to replace the whole thing, make it sound like a drum machine.

Speaker 3 (00:40:08):

Yeah, that's true. And I don't pay more attention to better musicians than not as good musicians. It's the same thing. I mean, if we are working together, it's going to be good, and otherwise we shouldn't work together. I spend as much time on those band not known bands. It's as important to me as it is for them. And I've never really done a record that they're not good. I was just going to do it anyway. I always spend a lot of time and make it as good as I can. It's worth it in the end. Maybe that's how you keep getting jobs.

Speaker 2 (00:41:03):

Yeah. Never allow your standards to drop. I feel like it doesn't matter who the band is. If you drop your own standards, then that's basically you're setting the stage for doing a bad job. If you even say it's okay once, then it becomes okay twice.

Speaker 3 (00:41:30):

Exactly. And how fun is it to work also when just, oh, well it sucks, but what the fuck? I'll focus on the next one instead. It's not fun.

Speaker 2 (00:41:43):

No, no, it's actually torture. It actually kind sucks when you do that. So one way, there was a time period when I was recording and I was actually starting to get frustrated by some of the bands because they couldn't play for shit.

(00:42:02):

And one day I was like, I don't want to hate this. I don't want to be mad all the time. So how can I reframe this in my mind so that I'm positive about it? Because this is not good. Because I was seriously getting pissed because it was band after band after band after band just fucking sucked. And they were on labels and touring, and it was just messing with my head. It was like, how are these bands even getting a shot? This is not what I signed up for. And then one day I was just like, you know what? Just take it as an opportunity to learn. The challenge is to make these guys sound great, and the worst they are, the more of a challenge it is. And the better you're going to get if you make them sound great.

Speaker 3 (00:42:59):

Exactly. It's a perfect opportunity to try out new mics and new mic placements in general. And because they have problems playing anyway. And then you need to find that good solution for that drummer or for that guitarist, and you'll learn so much for every session. You learn something new, so you're so spot on. It's better to not seeing the negative thing in it and just only focusing in on how bad they are and focus on, okay, what else can I do? What can I do new now? How can I improve? How can I make this neuron sound good? I mean, maybe I should mix that sample with that sample. Maybe I should try to see the fun in it and learn something out of it instead. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (00:43:52):

I don't think that that's a natural thing for people or for most people to just be presented with crap and find the goodness in it.

Speaker 3 (00:44:04):

Or of course there's a limit until you explode. But at least try to do the best out of it. And I dunno, drink more

Speaker 2 (00:44:14):

Coffee. Well drink more coffee, I think. Well, that really did work for me though, when I was successful in changing the way I thought about it. The sessions went way better, got it to sound way better. And the relationship with the bands was way better, and I slept way better at night. Everything was just better. It did take a little bit of work mentally to sometimes it was a matter of thinking about it actively like, okay, this guy sucks. Have to not worry about him sucking, have to just think about how to make it great,

Speaker 3 (00:44:55):

Not worrying about them sucking. I see what you mean. Yeah. You've been doing this for quite some time too, you say 94. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:45:06):

Well, I mean, the thing is that I've never been obsessed with it the way you were. I was more into writing music, but I got introduced to recording very, very young. And so I always used it as a way to record my own stuff, and it just kind of developed from there. So maybe 2001, I started recording other people's bands because I guess some people heard my own demos back then and were like, you should record my band. And one thing led to another, and eventually it was recording a couple sign bands, but then in 2004, 2005, but then my band got signed, and so I kind of didn't record for about five years. I mean, I did, but not all the time. So it's been kind of like a off and on thing. But yeah, I've been doing it for a while, definitely for a while I was definitely introduced to it on tape. But you started

Speaker 3 (00:46:16):

With this fostex E 16 kind of thing, or where were

Speaker 2 (00:46:20):

You at? Yeah, well the, the studio that I went to had a half inch, and so we recorded on that, but then, yeah, I had my own fostex cassette, the cassette recorders, and then moved on to a sound blaster. And then

Speaker 3 (00:46:41):

I've done those sessions too, being back home. And then you record a guitar at the same time as you're copying over to the next cassette deck and then you, yeah, so you can imagine the feeling that I have when we went to that studio and Oh, a reel studio,

Speaker 2 (00:46:58):

Man. I don't think that kids these days understand what it was like in the fostex of four track days.

Speaker 3 (00:47:06):

No, no, probably not. And then even speaking about a dots, how limited you are, and also actually how cool it is. You got this amount of channels and that's it. And you listen to music and you're not watching music, and you need to make up your mind whether you should be really there to record this before that part. In case if I miss stopping the tape machines, then all that stress and all that, you're afraid of tracking over something, you got one chance. That's it.

Speaker 2 (00:47:48):

I always used to love that stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:47:50):

Same here. And then mixing too, your three persons doing things on the console at the same time as you're bouncing it over to DAT or something. And then, yeah, if you screw it up like, ah, damn, okay, let's do it again. And that mission and that challenge is so fun too. You can feel the excitement and feel the tension in the room while bouncing it down to DAT. All that's gone.

Speaker 2 (00:48:21):

You just reminded me of something. So I remember when I went to that studio once,

(00:48:28):

It was very, very early. I walked in and the guy was doing a mix to from the half inch through the console to A at, and he was halfway through the song and I just, he didn't notice that I walked in the room for people who are under the age of 30, you should realize that back then you had to perform mixes. It was kind of like playing, you played the board, you played an instrument almost. So I walked up and he didn't notice. And so I got closer to him and said, hi. And he looked at me and then the fucking lasers in his eyes looked like he wanted to fucking kill me. And then he went back to mixing. And then the minute the song was stopped, don't you ever fucking come near me when I'm performing a mix? What the fuck do you think you're doing?

Speaker 3 (00:49:32):

Oh man. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:49:33):

Yeah, I learned from that one. But he

Speaker 3 (00:49:36):

Learned from that.

Speaker 2 (00:49:37):

Yeah, D did it again. But I mean that whole, you've got one time to get it right and all that. I feel like even though obviously you're using pro tools now and are in 2017, it does seem like some of that has stuck with it sounds like you get that out of the musicians that you produce really, really good performances and really,

Speaker 3 (00:50:12):

Yeah, but that's the key thing. Good performances of course. And once again, being really thorough with everything, really pay attention to how you mic things up and make sure that it sounds good. Double check all channels. Do I have oxide or whatever. I mean, check everything. And of course things slip through. I mean even today, but be careful. That's the key thing.

Speaker 2 (00:50:42):

There are no perfect sessions ever.

Speaker 3 (00:50:44):

I know there's always, always something.

Speaker 2 (00:50:48):

It's funny to me when I on nail the mix, we're getting the actual tracks from whoever did them, and the actual session is never going to be perfect. There's always going to be something in there. And sometimes some of our students who have never worked on professional records will point out those mistakes. We did something wrong. It's like, no, you don't understand. No record is ever perfect. There is always going to be mistakes in there. Some you're dealing with humans.

Speaker 3 (00:51:26):

Yeah. But of course, yeah, there's always something in there. Before you got the files from E enough for Destroy race, improve, there was some things that I needed to clean out, but that was, I mean, some vocal takes that we muted live when we did the live mix, so I needed to cut that away. But apart from that, everything is as it was. But there are things, and I look back to it, it was a long time ago, and some things are not really in tune and it's a little bit sloppy. I mean, I know it's Helga, it's stupid to say sloppy, but a bit sloppy for being them. But who cares? It was a long time ago. And the only one that cares, actually, it's the band. But there's always things

Speaker 2 (00:52:21):

That really was a long time ago. I don't think that, I mean, sloppy doesn't really come to mind for me, but it's funny to hear you say that. I don't think that anybody else would actually think of that probably besides, like you said, besides the band. I have some questions here from the audience I would like to ask you. Shoot, hang on one second. I pulled up the wrong thing.

Speaker 3 (00:52:46):

Alright, no worries. But you talked about that people were pinpointing mistakes sometimes for your nail and mixes. Was there anything that popped up for the story race, improve?

Speaker 2 (00:52:58):

Not that I can remember. Actually with the files you gave, everyone was just kind of blown away that you could go mixes up, I mean faders up and it pretty much sounded finished.

Speaker 3 (00:53:14):

Yeah, that's what I realized too. Yeah, I was bringing it up

Speaker 2 (00:53:17):

To

Speaker 3 (00:53:18):

Theo and then it sounded more or less like the album, A few things to news.

Speaker 2 (00:53:22):

Honestly. I think that that was the thing that people focused on the most, that they realized just how good the band is and the production was to be able to get it that close. But sometimes they'll point out if there's a bad edit or there's a blank file or you hear kick drums in the overheads, but they're not in the kick drum track.

Speaker 3 (00:53:56):

What about that, by the way, I hate that people need to learn if you're editing kicks, edit the whole drum kit. Yes, please do that.

Speaker 2 (00:54:12):

Yeah, I, but that just goes to show that a lot of stuff gets by on records that I think that if you're a student learning, you should, like what we were talking about earlier, the worst a musician is the more of an opportunity you have to really focus on your engineering skills. Kind of like when you're, you get files to mix. If there's problems like that, then you have the opportunity to learn how to solve them.

Speaker 3 (00:54:47):

Oh yeah. All these kind of ambiance tricks that I play with today or use today is actually coming from scenarios like that. The kicks are edited, but not together with the overhead and the room mics. And then I need to figure that out somehow. And you need to create a new environment for the drums. And that takes up a lot of time. And I spent probably months and months and months figuring out the best possible way.

Speaker 2 (00:55:26):

Yeah, because I mean, let's face it, lots of, especially now, the further we get and the more that recordings are kind of done at home or by less experienced guys, especially drums are oftentimes delivered to mixers, not sounding very good. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:55:50):

You're right, you're right. And what's also sick is that your mix is you spend three quarters of the mix just mixing the drums. At least I am, I don't know about you, but most part of the mix is dealing with the drums. And then, okay, time for guitar, maybe I'm done. Okay, vocals done. Now I'm printing the mix. So imagine if recordings were better drums. I mean, how much more time could you spend on guitars and small funny details instead of trying to rescue bad editing? And that's a bit of a shame.

Speaker 2 (00:56:33):

It is. But I mean some of those ambiance tricks that you were showing on nail the mix were really, really cool. So that brings up the question that how often are you mixing stuff that you didn't produce?

Speaker 3 (00:56:50):

I dunno, 50 50, maybe.

Speaker 2 (00:56:52):

50 50. Okay. So a good amount of the time. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:56:54):

Yeah, good amount. That's correct. So maybe, I mean now lately it's been, I don't know, kind of a lot, maybe eight out of 10 bands maybe. So egos in circles, periods.

Speaker 2 (00:57:12):

So you really do have to do a lot of drum rescuing.

Speaker 3 (00:57:15):

Yes, sir. That's correct.

Speaker 2 (00:57:21):

We totally went off on a tangent. I actually have these questions in front of me now finally. So let me start with Clifton Miles and this. What's your best advice when it comes to finding balance in your mixes? Also, do you look for certain gauges or meters to determine that your low end is thick enough or is that not something you think about?

Speaker 3 (00:57:49):

This may come like a shock to some people, but I've never really got used to look to meters and watching frequencies. I had a good, what is it called? Spectrum analyzer, tune tone. Nevermind, but I had one in the beginning. But from, I mean nowadays, no, I go, I just listen. If it sounds good, it sounds good. And you get used to your own monitors after a while and almost I can feel like if it's the right amount of base in the vibrations on my console. And I got teased many years for doing that by feeling the cone of the speaker in my second studio, like, ah, okay, it's touching the speaker again. And they were taking photos and sending to other friends. So I think I got to know how it feels, the frequencies, and that's my spectrum analyzer. What was the first part of the question?

Speaker 2 (00:58:59):

And that's a great answer, by the way. The first part of the question was, what's your best advice when it comes to finding balance in the mixes?

Speaker 3 (00:59:09):

That's also part of the picky, thorough thing. If your kick sounds good and the shadow is clean and good, then awesome. And then over to the snares, same thing. And then it's so easy to find the right balance. If you know that all channels sounds good and you're not covering anything up with this amount of channels, make sure it sounds good. Every individual channel, and that will help you out finding the right balance. That's how simple it is. I think the question was up before about, I mean, how do you put in a distorted bass together with a really low tune seven or eight string guitar? And that's the same thing, finding the right harmonics in the distortion and find a room for the base. It's not rocket science, it's just, once again, be thorough with every channel.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):

It is not rocket science, but you definitely do need to put the work in.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):

Oh yeah, I'm not saying that, but it's not any magical trick. No,

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):

It's not. No, it really is interesting to me, speaking of how it's not a magical trick that the guys we have on nail the mix, which are all great mixers. They tend to have very simple chains for the most part. And I mean, nine out of 10 have just very, very simple change and would just all say the same thing. It's not rocket science. You need to actually take the time to learn how this stuff feels and sounds to you. And then it's just a matter of making the right moves instead of a bunch of moves.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):

Absolutely. And it's not about having the best piece of equipment almost that it's actually better to not have good things in the beginning because then you need to learn more, then you need to practice more, and then you need to get skilled by the things that you got. And that's how it started for me. I had nothing. And it went even worse over to the next studio because the lightning strokes the studio and destroyed everything. So I didn't have

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):

Anything. You've lived through a lightning strike. So have I.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):

Oh, I have. Okay. What about water leak leak? So I had three water leaks too.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):

I had one.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):

Okay,

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):

Were you there for the lighting strikes?

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):

No, I was not. That was the last session in that studio. I had water leak, a water leak like a few days before, and it was in a dugout actually, so it was probably a lot of water inside the wall or something. I dunno, whatever. And then we were done, and then I left for Stockholm to do something and the band was still there and they were filming like, bye-bye studio and all that. And then he was just about to call me on the landline like phone and say like, Hey, we're leaving. We're leaving the studio now. Thanks for this time. And then it happened and he saw blue light kicking out from every socket, and it could easily have killed him for sure, if he would've had call me while that happened. Scary. And then I didn't. Okay, okay, cool. Everyone survived. That's awesome. Just leave the studio and then I'll deal with it later. And then I just packed everything down. I didn't double check it until we opened up the next studio and then I realized that everything was broken.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):

Man, it is traumatic. I was there when it happened, and it was like you said, the blue light and everything that was plugged in was just gone. It was terrible.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):

Nightmare.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):

Such a bad, such bad experience, experience. Maybe.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):

Also,

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):

We

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):

Walked into at the studio too, we walked into the live room. You just came directly into the live room when you open up the door and then stepped in water, I dunno, many centimeters of waters water. And then that could have killed me too because some of the sockets were floating in the control room in the water.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):

Holy shit.

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):

Scary scenario.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):

Talk about luck. I mean, yeah, that is actually pretty scary. That's why I tell people when there's a bad storm, just unplug your studio, don't fuck with it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):

I guess you're used to it living in the states and all of these tornadoes and bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):

Well, yeah. And I had a studio in Florida for four years, which Orlando is the lightning capital of the United States, so it was very, very normal to see lightning striking the ground. So always at about 3:00 PM every single day between May and October in storm season, you just unplug the studio for about an hour and a half and the storms come through and they're fucking violent and then they're over. But you do need to if you don't unplug your really tempting

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):

Fate. Yeah, that's true

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):

In my opinion. Okay, so here's another question from Morden Field, which is Daniel's mixes often have elements of boomy rooms and loose drums, yet it sounds great. I would love to hear how he finds room for all of that stuff without having it just eat everything up and make it messy. How can you shed some light on how you make it all work?

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):

I had that discussion quite recently too. I don't believe in the thing that, okay, yeah, there's a lot of room here that won't fit to that type of style and that won't fit. But yeah, it will fit to that style. But it's just a matter of balance again. And then making sure that it's not the lowest frequencies and that the base is not that long in the room, bad English, but that you don't have No, that makes sense. Too much low end in the room mics. Or you could have a lot of low end, but make sure that it's the correct low end that it doesn't interfere with the low end in the base, for example. So they're on the same frequencies,

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):

So you carve the shit out of your rooms to make them work.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):

Yeah. Yeah. I carve a lot around, first of all like three, 400 hertz a lot. And then I kick in some of the very lowest, like 40 something to that a little bit. And then what else is common like this three, 4K kind of frequencies and take that out a bit and then compress the shit out of it and then find the right place for it volume wise. So I don't like when it's too much treble in the ambiance mics, and I don't like that cardboard, 300 hertz, 400 hertz frequency. So by doing that, I think it's quite easy to find it in place. And it also, this question links to the previous question too. If all channels are good, not that hard to find a good balance. And I do love ambiance mics. I think that's once again where the natural feeling is, and it should be present. It could be in there, even if it's the fastest band ever. Even for, I mean, even when doing behemoth bands like that, there's a lot of room, a lot of room.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):

I think that's part of what helps them sound so awesome, honestly.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):

Yeah, exactly. And even though if it's not that super present frequencies in the room or in the ambience, it still helps to create another dimension. It's pretty much the same thing as adding, what do you call it, soil frequencies. It could be just, I don't know, speed up a cartoon flick or something and then put it into distortion and then you cool frequencies, put it in the mix and then it feels like you have something, you have another dimension.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):

Man, I haven't done that in a while, but that's such a cool trick.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):

Yeah, I mean, I learned that after the city album with strapping young ladder, it's everywhere. And then after that record I started to do that too. So I have samples everywhere. I had that for many years now. I sort of kind of forgot to do that. But it really helps out your song, just add one more dimension. And it's really, really sweet. If you think that, oh, this riff, I love the riff, but it doesn't sound as powerful as the riff before. And it doesn't really work with kick up the volume, then try to experiment with that, add some sort of in the background and, but very, very low. And that quite often works.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):

It really does. It's weird how well it works. Okay, here's another one from Pierre Luke Lemmon, which is, Daniel's Music Productions are amazing on many aspects. One being his great mastery of low end, which is a difficult range in medical production. Can he give in metal production, not medical production? Can he give us advices on how he achieves such a great low end extension in the kick, for instance, on the Colos album Also, how much of that low end extension comes from the mix and how much in the mastering stage?

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):

I don't think it's that much in the mastering stage. They probably cut out a little bit in the mastering stage just to smoothen out the very lowest and control the low end a bit. So the rest is in the mix. And as far as that kick goes, it was more or less the same thing. Being a little bit careful with the three 400 hertz thing in the kick. A lot of low end and a lot the room. So the whole colossal album is built on the room more or less.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):

I was about to say, that really does sound like a room heavy album.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):

Yeah, the whole, every channel, well, even the Toms, you're right. But the snare, I helped out with some IRS that I've done in another studio a few years earlier than that one. So I added in that ir and then I blended it in with my room and they were sort of pals. So they worked great. And yeah, the kick Kick, it was blended in with some sort of sample too. But mainly it's the real thing. There's a lot of fatso and a lot of EQing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):

Nice.

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):

And yeah, it's hard to say exactly how to manage to get that sound like this, but yeah, focus on the room.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):

Yeah, I think that you kind of answered it throughout the entire podcast, honestly, this question, I feel like we've been talking about it for a while, and also he should watch nail the mix

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):

That

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):

We did last week because Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):

You

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):

Kind of covered this.

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):

Exactly. Yeah, we did a bit of that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):

Yeah. Okay. Last question. This is from Eric Burt, and here goes Daniel, you are responsible for so many of my favorite metal records that I lost count. Can you talk about how you decide whether to place the kick above the base or the base above the kick in terms of frequency? It seems most mixers these days are doing kick below the base, but on stabbing the drama, it sounds like you want to kick above the base. I was curious about that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):

Stabbing the drama. It's both actually. It's a bit below and a lot above, but it's that frequency, again, when you listen to the kick soloed sounds quite stupid. It's just low end, massive amount of low end and a lot of this typewriter frequency, and so it doesn't sound that good. But together with the room mic, that's where it all happens. And I do it both ways, both above and both below. So I don't have a favorite option. It depends on the style too. So if it's more like rock or something, I don't go that low frequency wise on a kick Lately, it's been a lot lately. Maybe it's been above the base,

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):

I guess. I mean, it just sounds like it depends on what you're working on.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):

I think people should not overthink it and really try to more learn their speakers and learn their room and learn what they personally like from their favorite records. Figure out what's going on in your favorite records and why it works. And then when you're working on stuff, try to apply that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):

Yeah, I mean, that's really good advice. That's actually how it started for me too. I was trying to copy my favorite records and eventually you'll find the tricks that you can use to establish your own sound, and that's how simple it is. Overthinking is definitely a problem. Tweak it till it sounds good and don't care that much if you're doing stupid things. If it looks bad, I mean, who cares?

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):

Well, someone had a question that I wasn't going to ask, but now I'm going to ask it because it fits what we're saying. Do you ever reference other mixes?

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):

Yeah, I do. I mean, that's once again, how it started. That was the only thing I did. I was only referencing things and that's how I learned. And nowadays not as much, but if it's, sometimes it's good to ask the band when I'm mixing just like, what's your favorite record? Not to copy the record, but to know what kind of sound they prefer. So I'm not putting leaning it to a direction which they will eventually hate and also spend some time. So at that time, yeah, I'll referencing, but it's more frequency wise to see that I'm at the same ballpark.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):

It makes sense,

Speaker 3 (01:16:01):

And after a while you get to know your own monitors and you feel confident with that, but I think should, I think it's good to reference

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):

Just at the very least to know that you're up to standard, up to a professional standard. But then also, I used referencing a lot when I was figuring out balance, right? I would reference lots of records just for the stuff that people were asking earlier was just like, how much kick versus bass am I really hearing? How much do I really want in there? How loud are the symbols really on my favorite records?

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):

Yeah, you got it. That's a good thing to shake out and yeah, like you said, once you have the recipe, you can sort of trust yourself or your own judgment. I mean, as time goes by.

Speaker 2 (01:17:02):

Well, Daniel, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It's been great having you, and I really hope that we can do this again.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):

Yeah, we should. Busy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):

Thanks Sweden again.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):

Yeah, I mean, thanks for having me on. Yeah, this was a pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):

It was a pleasure. Thank you, sir. The

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):

Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast, it's brought to you by the 2017 URM Summit, a once in a lifetime chance to spend four days with the next generation of audio professionals and special guests, including Andrew Wade, Kane Chico, Billy Decker, fluff, Brian Hood, and many more. The inspiration, ideas, and friendship you'll get here are the things that you'll look back on as inflection points in your life. Learn [email protected]. To get in touch with the URM podcast, visit urm.com/podcast and subscribe today.