Jeremy SH Griffith: From Artist to Producer, Mixing Metal and Worship, and Hybrid Workflow

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Line six. Line six is a musical instruments manufacturing company that specializes in Guitar, amp, and affects modeling and makes guitars, amps, effects, pedals and multi effects. We introduced the world's first digital modeling amp, and we're behind the groundbreaking pod multi effect, which revolutionized the industry with an easy way to record guitar with great tone. Line six will always take dramatic leaps so you can reach new heights with your music. And now your host, Beau

Speaker 2 (00:00:34):

Burchell. Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast. I am not Eyal I am Beau Burchell. You've been tricked. I'm taking over the podcast for this month, and my very first guest here is a longtime friend of mine. His name is Jeremy Griffith. He's one of the biggest worship mixers there are out there right now. He does all the huge worship records as well as lots of heavy bands. He's done Norma Jean under oath. He's super crazy good. He's a person that I can bounce mixes off of. I've talked about that before. How important It's to have someone that you can trust to know your mixes and see if you're on the right track when you're mixing projects. But yeah, here he is. Jeremy, what's up? What up? So we first met in

Speaker 3 (00:01:31):

San

Speaker 2 (00:01:32):

Francisco at the Pound. Dang. On it.

Speaker 3 (00:01:36):

I didn't ever forget

Speaker 2 (00:01:36):

It. And that was 2004 ish.

Speaker 3 (00:01:42):

Maybe our record came out in four, but we were touring a whole year before it. It might've been three.

Speaker 2 (00:01:49):

Wow.

Speaker 3 (00:01:50):

You guys had kind of just started two, but you were already huge two shows in and you're huge. And that show was with a bench sevenfold as well. Oh, yeah. And I met you and Anthony first, actually, Anthony walked out first and introduced himself, and then you came out and we talked to you for a while. So it was the Pound in San Francisco. I'll never forget that place. It was a weird place.

Speaker 2 (00:02:14):

And I think they had the metal chef there, right? There was some dude. He was like a metal guy that would cook food.

Speaker 3 (00:02:21):

I think so. I don't think we were included on the food, but Oh yeah, the opening band doesn't get anything. No, no. I'm not even sure we opened the show. We might have been second.

Speaker 2 (00:02:31):

Yeah, it was one other band, right?

Speaker 3 (00:02:33):

Yeah. We might have been second. It doesn't matter. But that's where we met. I don't know why. I'll never forget it.

Speaker 2 (00:02:38):

Wow. Crazy. So we've been friends for a long time. People probably don't know this, but you're like a multi-instrumentalist. You can play pretty much everything. You can play drums on all the Savio. Savio is your solo project that you have. You play everything on that, right?

Speaker 3 (00:03:01):

Well, I wrote most of it, but I definitely had some friends come in and play as a producer through the years. I just had to become a great multi instrumentalist, I guess. But it is one of those things you start out, I was originally a drummer, and then one day my mom taught me piano and guitar.

Speaker 2 (00:03:21):

Wow. So you started as a drummer?

Speaker 3 (00:03:22):

I was first a drummer, yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:03:24):

Wow, interesting.

Speaker 3 (00:03:26):

I don't know. I can't believe You don't know that weird.

Speaker 2 (00:03:28):

No, no. I mean, we talk

Speaker 3 (00:03:30):

Every day. You think this would

Speaker 2 (00:03:32):

Come? I know by, I always thought you would be a guitar player first, just because you ripped so hard at guitar.

Speaker 3 (00:03:40):

Well, no, I started at drums, I think because it sounds a little cheesy, but I had that classic pots and pans in the garage story, and my mother was just like, I can't take it. It's got to have some kind of substance. So when I was in seventh grade, she bought me a Red Pearl export kit, and my dad was in prison at the time, and he had to work at a hobby shop as his job. So he was making me drumsticks all the time.

Speaker 2 (00:04:10):

No way.

Speaker 3 (00:04:10):

So it is just kind of where it all started and everyone could contribute to my insanity of being a young boy and needing to play something. So I was really into death metal hard because I'm from Florida, and I mean, they say that Tampa is the capital of, I don't know, death metal, because death is from there. Cannibal corpse. I think DI was from there. And so cynic and I was just really into those bands, but never quite that good.

Speaker 2 (00:04:45):

So how did you transition into guitar in I guess piano?

Speaker 3 (00:04:50):

Well, it's weird. I think I learned guitar and piano early, but drums was the first thing that I was like, I'm going to get good at this. Where guitar and piano was just me and mom jamming. She would sing old songs, and my mom loved Joan Baez and stuff like that. So she was real bulky, and so I was just really interested in it. But drums, I feel like is what kind of taught me a little bit of discipline as far as like, all right, to get better, you actually have to try. So I think guitar and piano were always around, but like I said, drums was an avenue into wanting to get better. And then through the years, I just wanted to play guitar, and then I wanted to play piano, and then one day I wanted to sing. That's Justs, how it Worked.

Speaker 2 (00:05:42):

So I guess I'll jump to your first band, or at least the first band where we met Moments in Grace. So I guess how did it, and that was pretty much your brainchild.

Speaker 3 (00:05:53):

It started that way and then ended up kind of wacky, but it definitely was at first. And then me and Jake Brown, Jake who was in other bands, he was in fro for a while, and he had a band called On Moss, and then he has a new band called Venie. He and I kind of thought of it together, but I think for the most part it was my songs per se, and my singing and all that crap. And those early demos, I did play everything. So then a band joined, so Gotcha.

Speaker 2 (00:06:30):

So was that record the first time you were kind of working with a big producer?

Speaker 3 (00:06:34):

Definitely.

Speaker 2 (00:06:36):

You guys were on Atlantic, right? It was like a big deal.

Speaker 3 (00:06:38):

Yeah. Yeah. I guess it would be a storybook tale of getting signed. Lemme just say,

Speaker 2 (00:06:47):

Well, how about this? At this point, how this is post-college, right? Because

Speaker 3 (00:06:53):

I played college

Speaker 2 (00:06:54):

Football. Right, okay.

Speaker 3 (00:06:55):

Which not a lot of people know, but I'm really proud of it. It's something that when we were in the band, they told me not to talk about, and I was like, I'm so confused. I thought, music dudes love sports. I was like, I played Division one college football, and I started, I did pretty well. But yeah, after college football, I was actually living in Boston. I went up to Boston to work at a school for disabled children called Perkins School for the Blind. It's where Helen Keller went to school. And I did that because at the time, my good friend Shane Gibson, he was up there going to Berkeley and he was like, dude, you should come up here and go to Berkeley. And I was like, I just don't know if I'm a student. But I went up there and I knew about this school, and I worked at this school for two years where I helped kids and it was amazing.

(00:07:44):

And when I knew I was going to leave Boston, just because Boston at the time when you're 21 is not affordable. So I cruised and I was talking to Jake the whole time. We were literally sending tapes back and forth, and that's how we came up with our first name postcard audio, which is so emo. But at the time, I was so into Deep Elm bands and that whole scene where your name is literal, and it was a story tale of us doing that. We made a demo in this weird factory that my dad found me in Florida. I recorded it on my Echo Darla two channel interface with, I think I had an eight channel Mackey

Speaker 4 (00:08:38):

Thing.

Speaker 3 (00:08:38):

Everyone had a Mackey at some point. And then I had the worst mics. I think I have one of them still. I would use it. I would use it. But we made this demo and then we did what every band does when you start out in the south. At the time, the internet wasn't very relevant, so your hopes are only expansive to the points about in my youth, the only towns that existed were Atlanta, new Orleans, Birmingham, Alabama, and Tallahassee, and some Tampa because of the death metal thing. And so we were like, dude, we got to play this pizza place in Montevallo, Alabama that's really popular. And it really was like Jimmy World play there. I had to drive in that day is kind of over the day of the Rad Pizza spot that had shows and kids came out and nailed it. That's over, but maybe it's not. Maybe I'm just completely disconnected from it. But we went up to this pizza place and we played a show with the Liars Academy. Do you remember them?

Speaker 2 (00:09:47):

I don't.

Speaker 3 (00:09:49):

Is some of the guys from Strike Anywhere? And then another band called Branson, deep Elm Band.

Speaker 2 (00:09:53):

I remember Branson.

Speaker 3 (00:09:54):

Yeah. So it was a great show. It was packed. We did a nice show. I think at the time we were Good Live. I think that was our strength. I think our recording was kind of weak, but I didn't know. I didn't know what I was doing really. But The Liars Academy was going in with Brian Mc Turnin a month later to do two songs, because Brian was a hot dog at the time, and they were literally listening to our demo CD while they were having lunch outside. And Brian walked out and was like, what's that? What is that? And called us. Literally, that's the story. It wasn't like our manager got in touch with a publicist and that publicist knew this girl, and this girl knew Brian. It was literally they were eating and he walked out and her.

Speaker 2 (00:10:45):

So basically you were just good and the right person heard it at the right time and wanted to move on it.

Speaker 3 (00:10:50):

I don't know if we were good. I think he just saw a potential. And then he met me and he was totally bummed about how big of a guy I was. He was, I mean, well,

Speaker 2 (00:11:01):

Because you're what, six three or six four?

Speaker 3 (00:11:04):

Six five. I'm six five. When I was in college playing football, I weighed like three 30.

Speaker 2 (00:11:11):

Wow.

Speaker 3 (00:11:11):

Yeah, dude, you have to be massive,

Speaker 2 (00:11:13):

Right? I know. I know.

Speaker 3 (00:11:14):

So I had a really tough time after college with my weight and everything because it just, you keep the weight, but your muscle leaves. He just turned into this blob. But that part of it was really tough. But he at the time had been working on a developmental deal with Atlantic, I think, because a bunch of his bands that he had produced, I think maybe had signed with them and they had exploded, but he had just done thrice and actually went to Island and they did that artist in the ambulance album, and it was huge and all that. So I just think he had a lot of pool at the time. So we were his first and only band on his salad days imprint, which the album actually never came out on salad days. It came Atlantic upstreamed it, which is interesting. We weren't ready for that

Speaker 2 (00:12:09):

Anyway. So were you recording bands on your own before that, or you had just done the demo and then you went straight in and worked with him?

Speaker 3 (00:12:18):

Definitely a hobbyist

(00:12:21):

Dreaming of the future of being some great producer. I'd always been into it, honestly. I had been recording since high school. I found a four track reel to reel in my family's garage, and it's still over there. It's in the corner of my studio. It was the first thing I ever had that overdubbed. And it has a function on it called Simulink, which I'm still really confused on why my parents had it in the garage. Well, back in the day, this is something I learned, a lot of records came out on reel to reel and tons of people had reel to reel albums, but they only needed a two track album. Most of it was either mono or stereo period. Why did they have a four track recorder? I still have never gotten, they still never got an answer. So that's where I started. And then by that time that we talked to Brian, I think I was actually past the Echo Darla, and I had, at the time, it was the weirdest, no-name interface that had eight inputs, eight quarter inch inputs. And I think I was on that and working in Cubase, and I had recorded a few local bands and done a terrible job. But I was really trying and I was really eager. And at the time, no internet, no knowledge to learn unless you go somewhere and sit with someone or just make so many mistakes. So

Speaker 2 (00:13:48):

When you were in with Mc Turnin, were you interested in the more technical or engineering or that type of process, or were you just there strictly as a band?

Speaker 3 (00:13:59):

I was there as a band, honestly, I thought about that recently. Why didn't I get so stoked when I walked in and saw all that stuff? Because he had everything just on a gear level, everything

Speaker 2 (00:14:16):

That was a big studio.

Speaker 3 (00:14:17):

It was crazy. And he's not much older than me, so I was just so blown away with how much he had accomplished already. And I know he started really young and some stuff really blew up. But it's been so long. I don't recall if I ever showed knowledgeable interest as far as like, Hey, Brian, here's an educated question, rather than, dude, man just sounds killer in here.

Speaker 5 (00:14:44):

Because

Speaker 3 (00:14:44):

I talk like that. But I remember being so frustrated and so immersed in the songs and the process of pre-production that any chance I got to leave the studio, I was excited.

Speaker 5 (00:14:58):

Okay.

Speaker 3 (00:14:58):

So no, I don't think I showed a lot of interest. I really wish I had.

Speaker 2 (00:15:04):

Is there anything that you took away from that experience? When you're producing bands now? Is there ever a time when you're like, oh man, this happened to me and it was crappy, so I'm going to be sensitive about that, or

Speaker 3 (00:15:16):

Yeah, I kind of think I base everything on my experiences there really? Yeah, I know exactly how not to treat artists. And honestly, when I first started getting a chance to work with bands that were decent, I kind of went into it with a bad attitude. I felt like I was mimicking Mc Turnin where Brian was. I think he was very good, but he was pretty mean about a lot of stuff. And early on, I feel like I felt that's how it had to be done. And maybe at one point for him it did, because to get the best out of somebody and not have unlimited options as far as pro tools and everything, where now we can really help people out,

(00:16:05):

Back then you just couldn't. So I think that's where his mentality came from. But I knew from my experiences with him that I was never going to treat the people I was working with. Like shit, did I do it? Sure. I know I did it a few times and I've had battles with clients and I've tried hard not to. And sometimes that my early methods shine through sometimes, and I don't like them, but I knew that I wasn't going to treat people the way he treated people. And I made a conscious decision, and maybe it's more recent, I don't know if it is, but I really just want people to be happy. I want to enforce the way I feel about the songs in a constructive way, but I don't want to do it in a demeaning or a negative way anymore. So I learned that from Brian, and I don't even know if he knew he was doing it. I just know that it really affected me for my entire life. Not kidding how intense it was.

Speaker 2 (00:17:06):

No, I mean, it's crazy. I kind of feel the same way. Musicians are very, I don't want to say sensitive, but it's like, yeah, when you're dealing with an artist, you have a person who has very specific feelings and is very in touch with, you would think they're in touch with their feelings, but sometimes they're wrong. But anyways, the way you get treated in these situations, it's a big factor on, especially if you're thinking about retaining work the way if someone treats you like crap, you're definitely not going to want to come back to them. Next record.

Speaker 3 (00:17:39):

Well, it's funny you say that because I know so many people who were really close with Brian,

Speaker 5 (00:17:45):

Right? Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:17:46):

I just kind of figured out that he didn't really like who I was and he loved my music and he loved my singing, but he honestly didn't like who I was and what I wanted to be as a creative, I guess. So we just didn't get along. But he was really close with a lot of people. I honestly hate slamming him these days just because my experience with him shouldn't reflect everyone's,

Speaker 2 (00:18:14):

Right. Yeah. I mean, it's just your experience.

Speaker 3 (00:18:16):

It was really rough though. I mean, there were a lot of other things beyond the music that really messed me up.

Speaker 2 (00:18:23):

So I guess after that there was one ep, two eps, actually this band City of Ships, and I thought those were awesome. So let's see, that would be 2004 ish that you were doing this. How long after was it when you started doing bands like that?

Speaker 3 (00:18:40):

Man, I think that was right after that. Maybe 2005, 2006.

Speaker 2 (00:18:46):

So it sounds like right after the band, then you jumped right into recording then or producing?

Speaker 3 (00:18:51):

Well, yeah, I think I was doing the classic band guy thing where you're like, I can't get out of music.

Speaker 5 (00:18:59):

This

Speaker 3 (00:18:59):

Is who I am, man. But I think it actually was. And so I really wanted to keep going. And at that point I had really changed my thinking on gear and what I wanted to learn. I wanted to be really good. So I got lucky with City of Ships, man. They were really young and they rip it ripped. And so I did that in Florida on a Digi two with a Yamaha O2 R console.

Speaker 2 (00:19:29):

Did you have a home studio or anything, or what were you doing?

Speaker 3 (00:19:33):

I had a little home studio rig, but I was using this weird studio in St. Augustine, Florida called Tows in the Sand, and it was a radar studio, so they had a radar rig. But I mean, honestly, at that time I'm like, what do I do with that thing? So they let me bring in my O2 rig and hook up and S le, I think I had 32 tracks maybe, which was insane. So much power.

Speaker 2 (00:20:03):

So you started doing those and then it looks like, oh man, I'm just looking at your discography right now. And I'm seeing the Secret State.

Speaker 4 (00:20:15):

And

Speaker 2 (00:20:16):

That was a record that we did together, and I guess that would be a whole podcast in itself.

Speaker 3 (00:20:22):

Oh, my poor, those guys got, it's insane.

Speaker 2 (00:20:27):

I can't even believe that story. So I guess, how do you go from doing, just like you said, city ships kind of like a young unknown band to then all of a sudden it's under Oath and Norma Jean, much bigger bands. How did you make the jump to that?

Speaker 3 (00:20:48):

Well, I think Sen and this, I have a lot. I feel like I owe to Sen taking a chance on me and asking me to come in and help on vocals and stuff like that. I mean, really that's do say it's my first big job because at the time,

Speaker 2 (00:21:10):

Well, the first one, but I mean you were doing programming on Four Letter Lie You did under Oath. I mean some stuff on Under Oath for Loss in the Sound, those

Speaker 3 (00:21:20):

All came after Sen. So I did sayin and it just really helped me have that name to attach to my name. And then Norma Jean, I had done a ton of small bands here and there. Bands were actually traveling to me, but they were all very small. Some of them were all very small labels and what have you. And Norma Jean actually heard that City of Ships recording and they were like, this is the best ever because let's just be clear, city of Ships just rips.

Speaker 5 (00:21:53):

Yeah, they're great.

Speaker 3 (00:21:54):

They made me look great. I think I made a nice recording and I listened to it now, and I'm like, oh, there's so much I would do differently, but not at all. It's just so good. It's really loose, but it's really beautiful and chaotic at the same time. But they heard that, and it was funny. At the time I was renting the B studio at Glow in the Dark Matt Goldman's studio,

Speaker 5 (00:22:14):

Which

Speaker 3 (00:22:14):

A lot of people confused with. I worked for Matt, I never worked for Matt. We worked together on a few things and maybe he would have me do some things with him. At the time, he was huge.

(00:22:26):

He's still doing well, but I was trying my best just to rent his front room when I could. And so Norma Jean came by one day, and it's really funny, I thought they were coming by to talk to Matt and they came by to talk to me. And I think that all came about because of Chris Rains. And Chris Rains was in Spitfire, and the Basis for Spitfire is one of my best friends, Jimmy Reeves. And so we had that connection and he knew about City of Ships and he was like, guys, we got to get this guy to do our record, which is pretty ballsy. The record before was, oh, what's his name? The guy in LA he did Ross Robinson. Ross Robinson. So they did Ross Robinson like three times, and that guy did corn, and then they're just going to get a little jar from the south. So it meant a lot that they wanted to do that record with me. So that was probably my second big record, but it was pretty deep into me just recording bands, years and years of extreme struggle, barely getting by.

Speaker 2 (00:23:36):

But you were pretty much doing it full time,

Speaker 3 (00:23:37):

Trying,

Speaker 2 (00:23:38):

That's all you were doing? Pretty much

Speaker 3 (00:23:40):

Trying, yeah. Calling mom,

Speaker 2 (00:23:42):

Hey mom. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:23:42):

Borrowing. I'm so broke and heard crying on the phone. Just a failure. But she never said that. She was really supportive. So yeah, then I did, Norma Jean and I produced and mixed the album Meridian that Record

Speaker 2 (00:23:57):

Rules.

Speaker 3 (00:23:58):

It's cool, cool album. I listened to it the other day actually on my drive to Nashville, and I was like, man, this thing is chaos.

Speaker 2 (00:24:06):

I just love the songs on that record. They're really good. They're really good.

Speaker 3 (00:24:11):

Yeah, Norma Jean, they're just a special group of dudes just making ripping jams. So yeah, I did that. And then now long after Goldman was going to produce that under Oath album and then Under Oath asked me to co-produce with Goldman on that album. So like I said, there's so many bands before that. Oh geez. I just don't even recall. It's just

Speaker 2 (00:24:36):

Well, and there's a lot of bands that are not listed on your all music, right? I mean, I have a lot of those too, where it's like they're great bands, but a record didn't come out on a label or it didn't come out on something that makes it not show up in your discography. And it's

Speaker 3 (00:24:53):

Sometimes

Speaker 2 (00:24:54):

A record where you're really proud of, but it's like no one finds out about it.

Speaker 3 (00:24:58):

My battle with all music is never going to end. I mean, I have written them so many times being like, Hey, can I submit these bands that I'm really proud of that are very good? There's a band from Tampa called Guilt Maker. It's one of my favorite bands I ever worked with in my life. And Dan, the guitarist and guilt maker was in these famous grind core bands, one called Reversal of Man, and one called Combat Wounded Veteran, but they didn't tour No label, but they're the best most fun band to work with. And all music just gave me such shit about it. They just wanted so many details. And it's like, man, we were kind of entering the era of dead labels and people were just like, I have some money. I'm going to go record the chair. So I mean, I want to say there's probably a hundred albums that aren't on there, right?

Speaker 2 (00:25:52):

Literally. Yeah, I I've definitely

Speaker 3 (00:25:55):

Don't have, I'm sure your is more, I don't have a

Speaker 2 (00:25:57):

Hundred, but

Speaker 3 (00:25:58):

Maybe I'm exaggerating, but it's up there. It's a lot enough that my all music page would go from two pages to six. Right?

Speaker 2 (00:26:07):

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:26:08):

But I don't even remember everything I've worked on. So yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:26:12):

That happens.

(00:26:13):

And you've also worked with a very wide variety of bands, which is something that, I mean, I don't have the variety that you do, but that's something that I feel like is very important that a lot of people miss out on. Now, how do you feel working, or I guess, how did you go from starting at such a kind of heavy, hardcore underground scene to now you're doing these huge, I just saw you a couple weeks ago, and it's like you're recording it. Capital Records B Studio with world-class musicians for a capital records release. That's like, I can't even believe the budgets that are on these things. You know what I mean? It's just like, it's like, wow, that's big time. Those are the records that you hear about stories. I mean, it's like, man, this is Metallica recording. How do you jump from going to that to all of a sudden just the top of, I guess, the worship world? Or was that what you would call it, or,

Speaker 3 (00:27:17):

Yeah, I guess. So there's multiple genres in religious music. They have a couple classifications. Honestly, I don't quite know how to classify them. I know I'm mixing some of the really top artists in that genre and producing some, but some of it I don't understand the way they understand it. I'm in the business of making it sound awesome.

Speaker 5 (00:27:46):

Right.

Speaker 3 (00:27:47):

And I've said to a few people recently who have asked me about it, and they're like, are you into it? Are you not into it? And I'm like, I'm into anything that's at the top of their genre.

Speaker 2 (00:27:57):

Totally.

Speaker 3 (00:27:58):

If they're the best at it, wouldn't you be interested in doing it?

Speaker 2 (00:28:02):

Right. Well, and also it's like if it's a good song, it's a good song.

Speaker 3 (00:28:05):

Exactly. You could hate the lyrics. And many times I do. Let's just be clear, there's lots of songs. I hate the lyrics across the board. But yeah, the capital records thing, it was a dream come true to work with some of those musicians. There was this guy there named Aaron Lindsay who played piano in Oregon. He has like eight Grammys. I'm in Capital Records recording this dude, and I'm thinking while I'm recording him, this guy makes me sound like the greatest recording engineer that has ever lived. Everyone's going to listen to us and be like, how did you do that? And all I can say is I didn't do anything.

(00:28:46):

That guy is special. So to get back to your question, early on when I was doing heavy bands, I already had that fear of being pigeonholed, which is kind of dumb, I guess. But I knew that I really wanted to spread my wings to be cliche there. But I really want to do a Neo soul album. And I was always into indie rock, and I like urban music, but I also like metal and everything. So I feel like I took a lot of financial hits early on because I really worked hard trying to work with people. I felt were different, that I had access to anyone I could. I'm going to turn down the heavy band and do the band with no money because I think I need it. And so I did a lot of that. And the Christian music is kind of how that came about. I have this good friend named Jonathan Berlin who was in this band called Sun Bears. That's

Speaker 2 (00:29:56):

Not a great record. He did.

Speaker 3 (00:29:57):

I've done all of their records. I've only produced one. I produced, you'll Live Forever. And the other ones I've mixed and sort of helped with production, but Jonathan's a great producer too. But he had actually become kind of a go-to studio musician for a lot of people. And he actually got invited to play on a couple of these big Christian albums. And so some of these artists were asking him about his own records and who mixed them.

Speaker 4 (00:30:26):

And

Speaker 3 (00:30:27):

He was like, my friend Jeremy at the time. It's funny, like he's done all these heavy vans, but he can do anything. And so I started getting a few calls from these Christian producers, and they started having me come work on these projects. And I didn't even know it at the time, but it would turn into this huge scene that I didn't even know existed. I knew Christian music existed, but I didn't know. I knew they had their own awards show, so I should have put it together that they had something going on. So I really feel like that was the starter of it. Right, yeah. Oh, that's great.

Speaker 2 (00:31:17):

Well, I always find it so cool when a producer or mixer or anyone involved with a band is able to become that kind of integral, invaluable part of a band. For instance, sun, you said that you did five records with them, or

Speaker 3 (00:31:41):

I think we're on four. We're on four. Maybe

Speaker 2 (00:31:44):

Even still to do two records with a band to make it through one record and not want to kill each other is pretty remarkable. And I have a couple bands where it's like, oh yeah, I've done three records for this band, two records for that band. But what do you think? Do you have a strategy or do you have any qualities or characteristics that you feel like contribute to you being able to continuously work with certain bands? I know Corey from Norma Jean loves working with you. How do you get these, tell me your secrets. Tell me your secrets. How do you do that?

Speaker 3 (00:32:23):

Good question. I'm not quite sure. I think some of it is potentially my personality. I'm kind of goofy and I like to have fun, but with singers, I just think I've always had an ability to push them in a certain way. I always, when you first start producing, the whole idea is just to inflict on them the way you would sing. And so that's kind of how I started. When I first started working with Cove, I was like, what would I do? And a lot of these guys loved that. I think with the bands who keep coming around that, that's something they really love. But I feel like most of them just found themselves in me trying to make them sound like me. Gotcha. Is, I mean, it's the same with mixing. When you mix a song, you've said this to me countless times, it's like, well, it's how I want to hear it. It's the same type of thing as trying to get a singer to sing what you're thinking, how you would've sang it. But I think a lot of great producers are able to remove themselves from themselves and to get into the minds of that particular vocalist or whatever. But I don't really have a great answer for that other than we become really how it is. When you work with a band for a really long time, or an artist, you either become really good friends or you don't.

Speaker 5 (00:33:48):

Right.

Speaker 3 (00:33:49):

And so most of the time, the return clients you're friends with, you're probably texting daily or congratulating each other on kids and just all that stuff. So that's a hard question to answer be maybe I answered it.

Speaker 2 (00:34:10):

So basically you just kill it and you don't know how you just kill it.

Speaker 3 (00:34:14):

I don't think I kill it all the time. I really try. But sometimes you just implode and you realize you did a shitty job. But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (00:34:25):

Alright, let's, let's skip to some dorky stuff. I think this is kind of interesting. So you're pretty much at, you work on a whole different type of record, all different types. You do everything from songwriting to producing and mixing records or all three at the same time. You're always being really creative. It seems like any bigger or established producer, people are coming to you because they want your thing. You know what I mean? It's not like

Speaker 4 (00:34:58):

They're

Speaker 2 (00:34:59):

Coming to you and being like, oh, well, we're going to try you out or this. It's like, no, we heard another record. You did, and we want you, because in kind of a small town in Florida right now, right?

Speaker 3 (00:35:09):

Yeah. Destin, Florida actually for Walton. For

Speaker 2 (00:35:13):

Walton, right?

Speaker 3 (00:35:14):

Yeah. But I say because Destin's a destination for vacation.

Speaker 2 (00:35:19):

Okay, gotcha. Big

Speaker 3 (00:35:20):

Time.

Speaker 2 (00:35:21):

So you're there now, but you've been in Atlanta in New York City for a while. You've moved around a bit. Do you feel like your location impacts your work at all?

Speaker 3 (00:35:31):

I don't know if it

Speaker 2 (00:35:33):

Impacts, I'm asking because there's probably a lot of people that are wondering, I'm in a small town in the middle of nowhere. How am I supposed to get somewhere if I live here?

Speaker 3 (00:35:46):

I couldn't have done it at the beginning.

Speaker 2 (00:35:48):

I

Speaker 3 (00:35:48):

Couldn't have been here. But I think the advantages of being in those places is just talking to people and seeing people and being down the street. I think about you a lot. You're a California dude, so you're just there. That's who you are. That's where you're from. But if I was a label guy in California, I'd be like, well, Bo, he's down the street. Let's go see him. Let's talk about this you, you're in. I think for me, I'm at a disadvantage in some ways for those types of conversations or just general mingling. Some people call it schmoozing, and maybe it is, but it's really about making friends in the industry for real,

Speaker 4 (00:36:30):

And

Speaker 3 (00:36:30):

Them trusting in you and seeing them on a regular basis. But I don't get that luxury here. But people,

Speaker 2 (00:36:40):

I'm out here and I'm terrible at it. I, I don't want to say social anxiety, but I think we're both the same way. I'm not good at, I get uber dumb chills when you meet those people that's like, Hey, what's up? My name's Steve. I did this, this. And they list all their accolades and you're just like, oh my God, do we really have to justify ourselves right now? We just talk.

Speaker 3 (00:37:03):

Honestly, I don't have to talk to people like that. I feel lucky that most of the people I've met through the whole deal have been pretty cool for the most part. And most people are just like me, and they're just trying to put the pieces together to continue on. So my location, do I think it would be valuable to be in a Nashville or a New York? Sure. Just to see people and everything. Do I think it affects my work at this point? No, not right now. The internet is just so powerful, but getting your name out there and becoming trusted is difficult. That is the difficult, you might be the best mixer or producer that's ever lived, but getting that trust established from others, that's the hard part. To me, becoming a go-to guy is just, it's been, I mean, what are we on? What year is it? We're like 15 years in on doing this. And

Speaker 4 (00:38:01):

I

Speaker 3 (00:38:01):

Feel like it's just now getting to where somebody is like, man, I know you'll kill this for us. Thanks so much. Where for years, and I still have to do it. There's a lot of test mixing. There's a lot of putting your name in there. Hey, man, would love to be a part of this record. I don't think that ends. Maybe if you become a Michael Brower or something and you do.

Speaker 2 (00:38:22):

But I think even he still kind of does that. I mean, I've even had, there was a band, I mean, I don't want to say the name of the person, but it was like there was a band that I was kind of talking to and it was on pretty good terms with them. I've already mixed a record for them. And I was like, man, I'd love to do your next record. And they're like, yeah, cool. And we were just at lunch one day and he's like, dude, you'll never believe who just hit me up. And it was this pretty huge producer, and it was like, they just sent me a message on Facebook and they want to do my band. And it's like, you're right. And it never ends, but it's wild.

Speaker 3 (00:39:00):

But those guys do really great work. And they might find a band they love too,

Speaker 4 (00:39:07):

Your

Speaker 3 (00:39:08):

Friend's record. They might have been like, this is totally my speed. I just want to do it just like us. I hear artists all the time, and I'll write 'em a message and be like, I just love it. Can I just help? And they'll be like, sorry, man, we totally, we got our people. And you're like, great. Keep making songs. I love this. So I get it. Yeah, it's just like I said, just being trusted is everything. And I feel like I've potentially gotten there with some people.

Speaker 2 (00:39:37):

Now you're pretty much, you mix on a console sometimes. Sometimes now, I guess on the console is for when you can kind really go for it. And when you're more So you're hybrid then, right?

Speaker 3 (00:39:50):

Oh, definitely.

Speaker 2 (00:39:51):

Okay. I'm kind of a similar thing, but without that

Speaker 3 (00:39:54):

Console, I mean, yeah, I copy everything you do, so whatever you're doing, I'm like, oh, well, I better do that too. I kept my console and bands like Sun Bearers for instance, they came to me and they're like, Hey man, we want to do a console mix. We want to use very few plugs and we want to do zero recalls. So for me, that's my dream. Oh, it was so fun. We actually, we did it in New York where we could not car check

Speaker 2 (00:40:22):

We. Wow.

Speaker 3 (00:40:23):

Yeah. So they came up and we did the files right there. And I would mix a song, and a song would take me a while because they're so kind of nuts. It's very just psychedelic rock kind of Beatles. And I'd mix a song, I'd turn around to Jonathan and I'd be like, so what do you think? And he was like, it's awesome. Can we change this, this, and this and this and this? And you'd have a massive list, so good. And we would change it and he'd listen to it and he'd be like, Hmm, that's better. Okay, print it. And we would literally print it, and then right there on the spot, print the instrumentals, all the alt versions and every stem. So each song was a full day, you know what I mean? Just because there's no offline bouncing with your neo tech, right?

Speaker 5 (00:41:14):

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:41:14):

So records like that. There's a few songs I did on Five Iron Frenzy, their album. I produced Engine of a Million Plots. I did, I think I did four songs on that album on the console and the rest in Pro Tools. I don't remember why. I think some of the other ones I knew would just be a little bit more back and forth with Scott, who co-produced it with me, who plays bass and writes a lot of the songs for Five Iron. So yeah, I'm definitely a hybrid these days on these really big Christian records and stuff. I'm doing pro Tools with a good amount of outboard through hardware inserts and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (00:41:54):

Is that just due to the amount of recalls?

Speaker 3 (00:41:58):

Most of them don't hit me with an immense amount of recalls, but the last project I just did, we did a lot. I think there was some stuff we just hadn't figured out yet. So there was a lot of back and forth. The artist was from England, and so we were just back and forthing a lot. So yeah, HDX is kind of rad.

Speaker 2 (00:42:19):

And you're running a pro Tools rig? Pro Tools. HDX. Gotcha. Do you have a limit on recalls that you'll do? What's your approach on it, I guess? Do you let them do what it's like, okay, cool, well, I'll go down this road and explore it. Or do you kind of cut 'em off or is it case by case?

Speaker 3 (00:42:36):

After two recalls I write this email, Hey guys, maybe I wasn't the right person for the job. I do it just because I'm like, if we need to keep doing this much stuff that I feel is completely irrelevant that you think is going to make all the difference in the world, then maybe I did something wrong. And usually they're like, no, man, we're just being really picky. And at that point I'm like, all right, cool. I just want to know if I'm not doing it right or something. Because just getting pages and pages of notes, I know for the artist or the musician, they think it matters a lot and maybe it really does. But I just think at that point is when I am like, whoa, maybe I just didn't understand the complete vision of this. And I was like, I'm not trying to be rude or get out of it, and I really appreciate everyone wanting to use me, but my first mix, I'm usually really happy.

Speaker 2 (00:43:34):

Me too.

Speaker 3 (00:43:35):

Very happy. And I'm like, wow. That's how I wanted to hear it. Sometimes I don't get it right. We're humans and

Speaker 5 (00:43:40):

They'll

Speaker 3 (00:43:41):

Be like, Hey, man, we're a little off there. And then I'll change it, and then I'll be like, they were right. Totally. But sometimes, most of the time we don't go past two recalls ever. I have to say, it's pretty rare for me.

Speaker 2 (00:43:56):

Yeah, I think once you get to that level, I mean, you get to that level where you should be able to do a mix and it's like, yeah, it's pretty much done and this is how it's going to be. It's locked in. You can adjust a few levels here and there, or maybe you might want something filtered or an effect that maybe you didn't see creatively. But for the most part, the mix is the mix.

Speaker 3 (00:44:21):

And a lot of it has to come from my end too, of preparing the people to prepare the files. So for years, I don't think I was giving people adequate information on how to set it up for me. And so now I have this huge list of things that I want you to do that basically protect the client. And then they send it to me and I'm like, oh, I totally get it. And when they do that, I mix a song and usually the email back goes, you nailed it. You're like, perfect.

Speaker 2 (00:44:51):

So do you feel like that's helped you a lot?

Speaker 3 (00:44:53):

Oh, I couldn't live without it now.

Speaker 2 (00:44:56):

What are some things in there that have really helped within that list? I mean, obviously there's the whole whatever DW, you're working in print continuous files, so I can import them into here, but is there anything else?

Speaker 3 (00:45:09):

Well, I think a lot of producers sometimes don't trust themselves with effects and cool moves and stuff, but I think sometimes they forget that that is production. And so they'll take all that crap off and then they'll send it to me and then they'll ask me, Hey, why didn't you do this? And I'm like, I didn't know to You are the whole beginning of the song. The drums aren't filtered. I'm like, you're right. They're not filtered. You didn't filter them. And they're like, what do you mean? I thought you would know. And they're like, we sent you a rough mix. And I'm like, oops. And so it's more about that now. I want them to prepare it where they're happy and I want them to print their effects, filter drums, but give me the original. Maybe I can do it a little differently that makes it come through in a better way

Speaker 5 (00:46:00):

Or

Speaker 3 (00:46:01):

Something like that. But it makes mixing really fun when everything is prepped to their liking and then you mix it and then they're thanking you for making it sound as good as it does, but you're like, well, you produced it correctly by giving me all the stuff I needed. So that aspect of it has really, really helped me.

Speaker 2 (00:46:19):

Yeah, I feel like that's another one of those things where it's as a mixer, you're kind of being hired to take to, what do they call those races when they hand off the baton? Why am I blanking on that?

Speaker 3 (00:46:30):

It's a medley relay.

Speaker 2 (00:46:32):

Relay race. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:46:33):

Relay.

Speaker 2 (00:46:34):

You know what I mean? So it's like the producer has done all of the tracking and the producing and at let's just say 400 yards, he hands the baton to you and now you take it across the finish line. Totally. But when they get to that 400 yard mark and then they take everything out of the session, it's like they've just put you back to the 100 yard mark and now you have to, you know what I mean? And it's like that's just really smart, I feel like, because I mean, I almost like it sometimes if they can almost send the session to where it's at their rough mix

Speaker 3 (00:47:05):

Point. No, totally.

Speaker 2 (00:47:08):

And then I can take it beyond.

Speaker 3 (00:47:10):

Yeah. I mean, I prefer just wave files. I hate the busy work of setting up a session. And I know some guys have three assistants and they don't even know what that means anymore to set it up. But for me, when I get wave files and everything's printed, I mean, dude, I'm rolling quick. But you're right. It's just, yeah, that was a problem for years where I just couldn't get it where they had it and it's like, I don't think this is my fault. And then for a while it made me feel somewhat like I was lazy asking them to do these things, but it's just not the case. It's just production. I have to have what you did. There's that process.

Speaker 2 (00:47:50):

Do you use templates or anything or do you have any kind of standard import audio things that you use on? Is there any things that you find that you use on every session?

Speaker 3 (00:48:00):

Do

Speaker 2 (00:48:00):

You have a template thing or do you just start from scratch every record? Well,

Speaker 3 (00:48:03):

You taught me how to make my own, create new track templates basically. And that's kind of where I'm at now, where I've created multiple templates depending on the type of song I'm recording, I'm sorry, mixing. So you remember how you taught me early on to create new track and I can scroll down and basically create my own presets. So

(00:48:30):

I have five now, depending on the song, which will have a certain verb, a certain modulation, a certain short delay, a certain long delay, and maybe a certain slap. And I'll set those up and I'll say a song I feel like can be a little bit more like Raw dog and a little more indie sounding. Might have a plate plug with a really fast slap with some kind of really affected tail ray, long delay. Then say a song is cleaner and I'm using an IRL impulse response verb with a really clean delay. You know what I mean? I do stuff like that, and I set up just certain routing from the get go. But I think each song actually is pretty unique. I use different buzz compressors on my drums and bass and everything depending on the song. Well, a lot of times I'll import the data and I'll listen to it and I'll be like, whew. Kind of intense on this one. Not what I wanted. Even if I'm doing a chill song, so I just approach it a little differently. But the way you taught me to do this, create new tracks, things has saved me. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:49:36):

It saves a lot of time.

Speaker 3 (00:49:37):

It's amazing. Thank you, Bo. But yeah, I have different stuff I use from track to track, but honestly now I have so many plugs and so much gear. I'm trying to do something different. I don't want to get bored.

Speaker 2 (00:49:56):

So it's just mainly out of boredom, not trying to fall into a rut, I guess.

Speaker 3 (00:50:02):

I do have the exact same music bus on every song. I use the TK audio and the P 38, and then I have those two warm audio EQs that we both have that we love.

Speaker 2 (00:50:12):

Those are great. They're

Speaker 3 (00:50:14):

Great. And that is always on my music bus. That's probably the only thing that is standard for me. And then as I get the album going, then I create new standards for that particular record.

Speaker 2 (00:50:26):

Do you understand?

Speaker 3 (00:50:27):

Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (00:50:28):

You're kind of creating the sound of the record.

Speaker 3 (00:50:31):

Exactly.

Speaker 2 (00:50:31):

Depending on what it needs.

Speaker 3 (00:50:33):

And then I go from there. I just can't use the same thing on everything. It's just not fair to the songs.

Speaker 2 (00:50:39):

Yeah, it's funny. I always envy those people that just do one 50 BPM rock ballads. Oh man. Or they only do Grind Core, and they're able to have those kind of templates just ready to go, and it's like, that's my thing that I do.

Speaker 3 (00:50:58):

Totally.

Speaker 2 (00:50:59):

But yeah, when we're doing all these different types of bands, it's so hard to have that.

Speaker 3 (00:51:05):

I just feel really lucky to even be working in music, so I'm going to give it my all, and I just want to do something differently. But I'm not discrediting any of those guys I know.

Speaker 2 (00:51:15):

No, totally.

Speaker 3 (00:51:16):

A lot of those country guys, man, they freaking, they got their set up and they crush it

Speaker 2 (00:51:21):

And

Speaker 3 (00:51:21):

They're so good. That's just not my thing.

Speaker 2 (00:51:26):

Here's another thing. So working with all sorts of different artists, how important is it, do you think, to be well-versed in all styles of music versus do you think that gives you an edge over other guys that are like, oh, I only listen to this kind of music?

Speaker 3 (00:51:47):

I don't think it gives me an edge. I think it gives them an edge in their particular genre. I kind of have my fingers in everything that, I don't know the extreme of every genre, but I love it all lately. All I'm listening to is old Frank Sinatra. All I listen to, I mean, me and my wife probably have 12 mono LPs that I'm just like, I'm the best thing I've heard in my life.

Speaker 5 (00:52:18):

I

Speaker 3 (00:52:18):

Don't think that's going to help me mixing a metal band. But I definitely think it has helped me have a sound that I didn't know I was creating, because you and I have talked about this before. There's times where I'm like, I'm going to make the slickest mix ever, and I make this mix, and I'm just like, for sure that it's slick and totally different from what I normally do, and I send it to you and you're looking at me and you go, sounds like a Jeremy Mix. And I'm just like, totally. But I think being a music lover of most genres is really smart. As a creative, I don't think it gives me an edge as a mixer. When I do a new genre, I really want to do an RB record so bad. I want to do Anthony Hamilton or something so bad. I'm am a fan, but I'm going to have to research it. I've never listened to it as a mix engineer.

Speaker 2 (00:53:18):

Oh, I get you.

Speaker 3 (00:53:19):

I've never put on Anthony Hamilton and been like a snare drum. I was sick.

Speaker 2 (00:53:24):

Right. It's always been pleasure listening.

Speaker 3 (00:53:26):

Yeah. I turn it on, I'm like, give me a cocktail. I'm about to chill.

(00:53:30):

So you have to trade brains for a minute to learn it. But I just think I'm lucky to be working in all genres. And even in the Christian world, I'm doing a lot of big albums in that scene, but I still don't think I'm the go-to guy. They still have guys that are machines. And I think it's the same way in all the genres where you're just like, geez, that guy, he just killed it in a couple hours. But they come to me, I make a mix, and when I send it back, they're like, it is so different from what we're used to and we love it. I love that. That's my favorite response. It sounds great. And it's just something new for us. And I'm like, oh, did my job. I'm so happy. And it's nothing more than me just hearing it a certain way. No discredit to those other guys, they're great. But yeah. Does that answer the question at all?

Speaker 2 (00:54:26):

Yeah, I guess. I mean, it's just all about establishing your own sound.

Speaker 3 (00:54:31):

Yeah. And this hundred sons record that you just mixed that I mixed a few songs and they were like, we're just not feeling it. I think it's really because in a lot of ways that I'm not totally connected with the music they love, and you have a better grasp on that and you just crushed it. So I mean, does that make sense? I don't feel like I had a total edge on it. Now when I do Norma Jean who loves chaos, and I mix it the way I mix heavy music, they love it.

Speaker 5 (00:55:02):

Right?

Speaker 3 (00:55:03):

So

Speaker 2 (00:55:04):

It's just No, it's the same way. I mean, I was just talking to someone about metal production. For me, the way I hear drums is a very way more natural sound. Whereas drums now on most metal records, it's like, man, a snare drum does not sound like that. You know what I mean? Where it's like the drum kit is just so hyperreal and extreme that it's just not really how I hear drums. I hear it more as a kit and in a room rather than cannons going off in a canyon.

Speaker 3 (00:55:44):

It's just a fight. It's just a machine gun fight every metal sauce. But I love it too.

Speaker 2 (00:55:50):

I love it. But it's like I have such a hard time doing that, getting those drums to the point where it's like, whoa, those are so crazy, insane. And my problem has always been that when it comes to any sort of soft passage, I'm so concerned with someone knowing or being able to tell that I used samples.

Speaker 3 (00:56:16):

We've had this talk a lot.

Speaker 2 (00:56:17):

Yeah. It's a huge insecurity of mine where I'm like, because for me, whenever I hear samples, especially on soft drum rolls or any sort of fills, it just completely takes me out of the feeling that I was in of the song.

Speaker 3 (00:56:32):

Totally.

Speaker 2 (00:56:33):

But it was interesting talking to this one guy. He's like, yeah, man, you just got to, and what you're saying, knowing the artist or the genre that you're mixing for, and it's like, dude, these dudes don't care about the few small snare hits that sound like they're actually hard hits, but just really low in volume. You know what I mean? They don't care about that.

Speaker 3 (00:56:56):

I will say though, you're the best at it. I know there's been a few times where you've literally said to me, it's sounds amply. And I'm like, I don't think I hear anything other than rad drums. That last thing you just sent to me that you recorded in downtown la, it was incredible. I was like, this is how drums should sound for the rest of my life. This is it, right? This is it. This is the drums I always wish I could hear. Here they are. So I get it.

Speaker 2 (00:57:22):

I ended up not getting that mix because it didn't sound punishing enough.

Speaker 3 (00:57:24):

Oh, thanks guys. Thanks.

Speaker 2 (00:57:27):

It was amazing. I thought so too. But yeah, anyways. Do you attack a heavy record any different than you attack like a regular record?

Speaker 3 (00:57:41):

I don't know, because I just kind of go into it. I open it up, I kind of hear what they're doing and I'm just like, alright, let's party. I feel like sometimes I'll actually start the heavy record and I'll mix it and then I'll reference something else that I feel like is similar, just to see where I'm at. But I don't think I start any of them very differently. I think with the heavy record though, I have to start with the core instruments rather than say a more indie band. There's this band, old T brigade that I've produced and mixed. They're great. I always start with his core. So his acoustic and his vocal, that's where I start. There might be drums and bass and orchestra behind them, whatever. But that's where I start. Where with the heavy music I start with drums and guitar, and I just get those where it's like this craziest thing I've ever heard in my life. Then I sneak in some bass and then vocals. I think maybe the order in which I do things is a little different, but I don't think I approach it much differently.

Speaker 2 (00:58:44):

You're still going to end up making it like the song that you want, the way you hear it.

Speaker 3 (00:58:48):

Exactly. And whatever route I have to take to get there, I don't care. I don't need a system to tell me. I feel like the systems are there to help me do them quicker, maybe.

Speaker 2 (00:58:59):

Oh, we were talking about how a while ago you were mixing. I remember it specifically because I ran into the same issue. So you were mixing a record and we were talking about the snare drum, and you were saying how, I think I mentioned the snare drum was dark, and your response was like, no, man, I think it's good because I'm already boosting four db, and when I tracked it, I also added six db, so I'm already at 10 DB now. I just found that so interesting because I feel like a lot of the times when you produce a record and then mix it, sometimes you're at a disadvantage because

Speaker 3 (00:59:41):

You, you know what I mean, A

Speaker 2 (00:59:43):

Disadvantage. You know what went into the tracking?

Speaker 3 (00:59:45):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:59:46):

So right there, you were scared to add the extra DB that it needed to get to where it needed to be because you knew how it was tracked.

Speaker 3 (00:59:54):

No, you're totally right. I have to use separate brains. So in this last record I did for this guy named Matt Redmond, I engineered it, and when I was mixing it, I had that dilemma so many times where I was just like, I was nailing the room mics. You know what I mean? I can't nail 'em again, just like you said. But I did it anyway and it turned out fine. But I think sometimes you just had to have a separate brain, and so lately when I've been producing something and I have to mix it, I actually take an extra step in the middle to do a mix setup session. So I actually act like I'm the producer preparing it for mix. So do you print everything? I print everything as if I'm going to send it off.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):

That's great.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):

And then I send it off to myself. I save a copy in my mix, my mix folder on my main drive, and then I open those to mix.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):

That's great.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):

That's what I've been doing lately, and it's actually been helping my brain just separate it a little bit, where before you see the chaos of your tracking, where if you're moving quick, you are like, okay, we're about to do a backup vocal, create track shift Apple in

Speaker 5 (01:01:08):

12.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):

You only record three, the other what nine are there? So I get rid of all that stuff and I just try to create a different side of my brain to mix, and that's really been helping me. I know it sounds like an extra stupid step, but it really is smart.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):

No, it's very smart. I mean, all it really is is just proper session management.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):

Totally. And when I copy the session over, I only copy the main playlist. I just make sure everything's committed. Everything's cross faded. I've already cleaned up. If we need to clean up the Toms or whatever, I've done everything I could as if I was sending it to another mixer. It's

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):

When you're producing a record, sometimes it's easy to slack on stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):

Absolutely

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):

Easy. I'm just going to start mixing this. It's already, yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):

Let's jump into this, man. I'm killing it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):

Yeah, yeah. Well, dude, I got to jump. I have a session coming up. Sick, bro. It's been awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):

Yeah, dude, thanks for having me on your podcast or your borrowed podcast. Yeah, on my hijacked podcast. Oh, saw it. Yeah. Thanks for talking to me.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):

Yeah, thanks again. And if you guys want to check out some of Jeremy's work, it is jeremy SH griffith.com, and check out all of his stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):

Write me an email, talk to me. I don't care. Hit me up on the contact page and just ask me some questions if you even care to

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):

Or stop by your destination. Destin, Florida, right?

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):

Yeah. Don't do that. Just show up unannounced. I like my privacy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):

Thanks, bud. Cool. Thank you guys very much, and talk to you soon. Peace.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):

The Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast is brought to you by Line six. Line six is a musical instruments manufacturing company that specializes in guitar, amp and effects modeling, and makes guitars, amps, effects, pedals and multi effects. We introduce the world's first digital modeling amp, and we're behind the groundbreaking pod multi effect, which revolutionized the industry with an easy way to record guitar with great tone. Line six will always take dramatic leaps so you can reach new heights with your music. Go to www.linesix.com to find out more about line six. To get in touch with the URM podcast, visit urm.com/podcast and subscribe today.