Adair Daufembach: Building a career from nothing, the psychology of production, and moving to LA

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, and now your host, Eyal Levi.

Speaker 2 (00:00:08):

Welcome to the URM podcast. Thank you so much for being here. It's crazy to think that we are now on our seventh year. Don't ask me how that all just flew by, but it did. Man, time moves fast and it's only because of you, the listeners, if you'd like us to stick around another seven years and there's a few simple things you can do that would really, really help us out, I would endlessly appreciate if you would, number one, share our episodes with your friends. Number two, post our episodes on your Facebook and Instagram and tag me at al Levi URM audio and at URM Academy and of course our guest. And number three, leave us reviews and five star reviews wherever you can. We especially love iTunes reviews. Once again, thank you for all the years and years of loyalty. I just want you to know that we will never charge you for this podcast, and I will always work as hard as possible to improve the episodes in every single way.

(00:01:10):

All we ask in return is a share a post and tag us. Oh, and one last thing. Do you have a question you would like me to answer on an episode? I don't mean for a guest. I mean for me, it can be about anything. Email it to [email protected]. That's EYAL at m dot A-C-D-E-M-Y. There's no.com on that. It's exactly the way I spelled it and use the subject line. Answer me, aal. Alright, let's get on with it. Hello everybody. Welcome to the URM Podcast. My guest today is at that year Doba, who's an LA based Brazil bread musician, songwriter, producer, and engineer As a lifelong performer turn producer at Daer, had the opportunity to work with some of the greats both inside and outside of Brazil, including Tony McAlpine, Kiko, Rero, Angra, Dirk Buen, who's the drummer, Megadeath, and many, many others. For those of you who are curious about how to get a career going in a market that is no market and transitioning to the biggest market in the world, this episode is for you. Enjoy a dba. Welcome to the URM Podcast. Hello,

Speaker 3 (00:02:25):

Y, it's a pleasure being here. Super excited. Thanks

Speaker 2 (00:02:29):

For being here. Glad to have you here.

Speaker 3 (00:02:31):

Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (00:02:32):

How are you doing? How's LA right now?

Speaker 3 (00:02:35):

Slowly going back to normal. It's better to live here now because a couple months ago it was terrible. I've been working a lot. I'm always working a lot. I'm really grateful for that, and I'm slowly recording drums again, recording bands again. It's cool. It's getting better, getting a lot better. I guess that we're asking from all points of view, right? Not only the professional side, but also the pandemic side, right? I imagine.

Speaker 2 (00:03:03):

Yes.

Speaker 3 (00:03:04):

Yeah, so everything's going back to normal slowly, but it's cool, man. I'm happy.

Speaker 2 (00:03:10):

When you say that you're starting to record drums again, did you do zero drum sessions for that entire year?

Speaker 3 (00:03:16):

That was something that happened naturally. As soon as the pandemic started, just happened, almost nobody was calling you to record drums. I used to record drums a lot with Dirk, with Achilles Priester. As soon as the pandemic started, we had zero recordings. We did one or two recordings in the middle of the pandemic. But for example, with Dirk, we were in the very beginning when we were super afraid of the virus and we didn't know exactly what it was. I remember that Dirk was like, okay, I go to my room and I'm going to record from there and we'll not talk to each other. We would just talk through the mic and watching ourselves in the camera system that I have to record. Drums so naturally happened. I didn't have many drum recordings or any kind of recordings in the last two or three months. Things started again. People started asking me again to record, to produce and all that stuff. I'm happy.

Speaker 2 (00:04:14):

But you've been working the whole time?

Speaker 3 (00:04:15):

Yeah, I've been working the whole time mostly with mixing and remote stuff. Just like everybody, like producing at distance, like remotely getting files. I even recorded one band here in my apartment in the middle of the pandemic, but we are super careful with tests and everything. A Brazilian band claustrophobia, they leaving in Las Vegas. I can't stop, and I had some personal problems. If I wasn't working, I would get crazy. I have to say, for me, it was a rough year last year. Some really bad personal stuff happens.

Speaker 2 (00:04:52):

So even when there's no bad personal stuff happening, how long can you go without working before you go crazy

Speaker 3 (00:05:00):

One day or two? Seriously? Do you have that? I know that you are making questions, but I also love your work and I would like to ask you as well, because for me, every time I'm not working, I have the feeling that I'm doing something wrong. I dunno.

Speaker 2 (00:05:17):

Yeah, same here.

Speaker 3 (00:05:18):

It's like if I take, okay, I work 15 days in a row nonstop, and now I have the right to just stay here watching movies, going out and having fun. After four hours, I started like, man, I should be working. It's not right.

Speaker 2 (00:05:41):

So I force myself to stop, which is something that I've only been able to do maybe in the past year. It took me up until the past year to be able to learn how to stop still. If I go longer than a day, I start to feel guilty two days maximum. I actually took a vacation at the end of 2019 for about five or six days, which was super extreme. But yeah, I can't go for too long. There's just too much to do. And the thing is, I think when you're in business for yourself or you run a company, if you stop working, I mean exactly what's not getting done. URM can keep moving without me there, but that doesn't mean that I should stop because there's a bunch of things that I have to do in order to keep us moving forward, and so there's only so long that I can go without working before I start to feel like a piece of shit.

Speaker 3 (00:06:42):

It's good to say that for the people who are starting now in this job and they're willing to be producers or engineers or mixers or whatever, because we don't have the right to stop. I feel like that because this market, it all depends on us. It's all about us. If you make a mistake and you make a terrible job, you have consequences. So the same when you stop. If you stay for too long out of the business, you'll never know exactly when you decide in that week when you decided to take a vacation in Hawaii or something. Exactly on that week, you'll be Metallica, we call it, to make the record. You'll never know. It's like, well, not Metallica, not yet, but I mean

Speaker 2 (00:07:34):

I come back from Hawaii for that.

Speaker 3 (00:07:36):

Yeah, I mean, but let's suppose I would come back from hell to do that.

Speaker 2 (00:07:43):

Yeah, no, but it's true. The business doesn't stop just because you did, and I've known plenty of people who decide to take a break and then try to come back a few years later and all their momentum is gone. Some of them are able to restart the momentum and others.

Speaker 3 (00:08:01):

I kind of had the same two or three years after I arrived here in la, I moved to la. I wasn't that excited, even though everything was super fast for me here in LA when I moved from Brazil and all of that. But there was a moment that I wasn't that happy, let's say, but somehow still I was working. I was lucky enough not to take the decision of, okay, I'm going to stop for a year or six months, but I know the feeling.

Speaker 2 (00:08:30):

So that's a good decision.

Speaker 3 (00:08:31):

Yeah, man, I never stopped, but there was a moment. It's because it's so exhausting sometimes because the market, the way it is right now, you don't have the right to choose what you have to do or not. For example, all the opportunities, the big opportunities I had in my life, they happened and you cannot say. For example, Kiko called me and said, Hey, I want to record my next record with you. Kiko is my hero. I was super excited and everything, but let's suppose that I wasn't, how can I say to Kiko like, no, wait a minute, can you wait a month until I get ready? It's like I can't. When such an opportunity comes to you, there's nothing you can do. You just have to do it. You have to be prepared all the time. So that's it.

Speaker 2 (00:09:15):

I think that the ideal, I was actually just talking about this with somebody. I think the ideal is to get to a point eventually where you can say no to projects, but in order to get to that point where you can pick what you're working with, that's like the final dream almost.

Speaker 3 (00:09:33):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. And I already said no to a bunch of jobs, of course, to a bunch of jobs. That's too horrible to say. I already said no to a few jobs. There were some bands that they were looking for my work and they wanted to work with me not in the right moment, and of course I already said no. But when the opportunity comes to you, stuff that you want to do, you don't have the choice. If some of the bands that I want to work with someday, they call me or I have the opportunity to work with them. Doesn't matter what is happening in my life, I just have to go and do it. So the very best, as you said before, the very best you can have is the situation where you can choose, but probably you cannot choose too much, right? There's a limit.

Speaker 2 (00:10:20):

No, there's definitely a limit. I mean, how do you feel about that? I agree that that is the reality of it. I think you have to just accept it, be comfortable with it, so you're cool with it.

Speaker 3 (00:10:32):

I understood really soon in this career that this life of a music producer and working with music, it's a life of sacrifices, and you are happy every day because working with the stuff that you love, but sometimes you just work too much. I remember that I was in Brazil and I worked like 50 days in a row nonstop. Sometimes I think that I already did more than that, but I remember that one day, one year I worked like 50 days nonstop. I was tired, of course, but at the same time I was super happy because I was having work, a lot of work, and especially for me who came from Brazil. In Brazil, it's really hard to make a living out of metal producing metal music in Brazil. It's really tough because you don't have as many metal bands. At least well succeeded metal bands in order to pay and to have a really good production in their albums and all of that.

(00:11:30):

So I was lucky because I was working only with music production and recording metal bands in Brazil, and I did that for at least seven years. So I was exhausted, but at the same time, I was always remembering myself like, no, you were tired. That's fine, but you were a lucky guy. That's an amazing life, and that's the moment I am right now. Every time I remember, I keep remembering myself. I'm always like, man, this is the life that a lot of people would like to have. It's a blast doing what you do, so it doesn't matter. Sometimes you have bad moments when you have to work too much, but working with music, it's a blast. Every day I wake up and I'm really happy because, oh, okay, what do I have to do? Oh, I have to go to the studio, record drums with Dirk, like, oh, what a shitty life. Right. No, it's a blast.

Speaker 2 (00:12:27):

So in a place like Brazil where there isn't the same kind of market and bands don't have the same kind of money, how do you go about building a career in a niche like this where to the point where you can make a living off of it, I'm wondering. We do have a lot of listeners in non-major music markets in third world countries that want to do it, and they don't want to move. They don't want to go to LA or do that. They want to figure out how to do it in their part of the world, which I think is close to impossible, but not a hundred percent impossible. Someone does it, you did it.

Speaker 3 (00:13:06):

I know the feeling of a guy who's right now in Africa or countries that for sure that there is not too many bands in Brazil. It's still a really good place for Meadow because we had SE tour, we have Cian, we have a bunch of amazing bands there, but it's still super tough. What I did was I made it happen. First of all, I had to work really hard in order to have competitive work and I had to make a lot of sacrifices, stuff that you guys here in America, you guys are not used to that. Let me say, let me explain what exactly I'm talking about. I remember that one day, for example, one of the most difficult things for a music producer is the schedule, because when you start working with a studio, you have to deal with the fact that most of the bands, like a hundred percent of the bands that we will work with, they're not professional. So basically they will be available for you to work only Friday nights, Saturday and Sunday. At least in Brazil. It's mostly like that, right?

Speaker 2 (00:14:08):

No, it's like that here too. I mean, when you work with local bands, they have normal jobs.

Speaker 3 (00:14:14):

No, no. I mean I know that that's the part that is exactly here in the us but that then comes the part that is not exactly like that.

Speaker 2 (00:14:21):

Then the difference,

Speaker 3 (00:14:22):

Then the difference. It's like I remember that there was a guy, and it's really important for a producer to keep busy all the time just so you can keep money getting in, money in so you can pay your bills, so you can invest in new equipment and you can evolve and you can be a professional, professional in the sense of the guy who only does that,

(00:14:44):

And I remember that there was this guy, and it would be super important for me to keep me busy and to keep my working all the time to record the guitars of a certain album in 2006. It would be important to record the guitars on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, and the guy live 40 miles away from me and he was like, man, I'm available, but the problem is that the only bus I have because he didn't have a car, the only bus I have to come here and start working with you at 8:00 AM which was the time that I suggested them, Hey guys, let's work from 8:00 AM until 10:00 PM just so we can get the job done. And it was six songs and he was like, yeah, but the only bus that comes from my city to your city leaves at 1:00 PM and was like, man, I'm going to lose five hours of work.

(00:15:36):

So I was like, okay, I'm going to pick you up. So I wake up 6:00 AM I pick him at 7:00 AM and at 8:00 AM I was in my studio recording with him just so I could keep my schedule. I was like, okay, now I'm busy. I already did some stuff like that. Other stuff like dance, they only could record enough certain weekends and I recorded 15 hours in a Friday, 15 hours in a Saturday. They barely slept. I didn't sleep at all. I remember in a recording with Achilles that we had to finish all the bases, but that's something, of course, that part, it's something that happens to everybody. We had to finish all the bases and we recorded 24 hours straight.

Speaker 2 (00:16:20):

That does happen.

Speaker 3 (00:16:22):

That does happen to everybody. But I mean in Brazil stuff, because those are the difficults that happens because of the country, everything is tough for everybody. It's hard to find someone who's 18 years old that has access to a car. For example, here in LA I see that a bunch of young guys, they have a Honda Civic 95 Honda Civic. When they become 21 or 22, it's easier to get that than in Brazil.

Speaker 2 (00:16:51):

Well, it just seems like the overall economic situation for people is a lot harder

Speaker 3 (00:16:57):

Down

Speaker 2 (00:16:57):

There.

Speaker 3 (00:16:58):

It's a lot.

Speaker 2 (00:16:58):

So the people have to make, I guess, very careful decisions about what they're going to spend their money on, the little money that they do have, and it doesn't always involve a car.

Speaker 3 (00:17:10):

It's a lot of things, not only like having a car, but for example, equipment. It was also a struggle because especially in 2005, 2006 when I started, we didn't have as many good plugins. Of course, we had already a bunch of good plugins, but let's suppose amp simulators, it wasn't that easy to find really, really good amp simulators at that time. We had those pods or vamp, and I always, in order to be competitive, I noticed, well, I need to have an app and man, if I wanted to have a 51 50 at the time, oh my god, it is so much money in Brazil, so much money, and it's a lot of effort. You have to work really hard, you have to finance stuff. In Brazil, mostly of the stuff are all like that. It's really hard. But at the same time, that prepared me for the future because I was so used to difficulties. When I moved to la, I was like, okay, certain things here are easier. The market is a lot more competitive. But anyway, for the structure of my studio, like buying equipment and all that stuff, it's a lot better than in Brazil.

Speaker 2 (00:18:23):

Well, the market is a lot more competitive, but if you're used to working hard enough to make it work in an impossible market, then I think competitive is easier than impossible.

Speaker 3 (00:18:36):

Yeah, you are right. It's like this is one of the things that I noticed, which means that comes to my mind, the word you have to be consistent because sometimes you're trying to improve your workflow, but sometimes all you have to do is to be consistent. I don't know if you understand what I mean, because in my case, I felt that I was stuck in a place with my work. I was like, man, I actually have to improve and I have to

Speaker 2 (00:19:05):

Get a plateau with the quality of your work.

Speaker 3 (00:19:08):

Yeah, I was like, man, because I think that I always have to evolve. I don't want to sound the same year after year. I want to change always. I want to keep listening to whatever is happening in the market. I want to be always evolving. It's a quest for tones. That's my life and for tones and for sounds and for mixing for albums, I want to be better, but sometimes you feel like, oh my God, I'm stuck. And maybe you even feel that, oh, there is not too many people looking for my work right now. I was always busy, so super busy. But sometimes you feel that, okay, I'm not having as many emails that I used to have, and then you think, well, maybe I'm done.

Speaker 2 (00:19:49):

It's over.

Speaker 3 (00:19:50):

It's over. It's going to be the end, and suddenly you never worked with the guy and the most important artist of your life, it's going to call you and say, Hey, we want to record with you, or we want to produce an next album with you or mix with you. It's because of consistency, because I was there. Everybody knew I was there. I'm prepared for everything because despite the fact that it was just a feeling, it wasn't real, but I was having that feeling looks like you were stuck, but you were there. You were prepared, you were available. And I'm saying that because I already saw a lot of reducers that sometimes they just get lost. Just like you said, people who wanted to take a break of one year or two years, and when you do, that means you were telling everybody, I'm not here and the market doesn't stop. So basically when you are there and people know that you are always there doing that, that's enough. Sometimes I'm not telling people just don't try to evolve and just keep doing that. It's going to work. I'm just saying the opposite. If you are good and you are not there available, being consistent,

Speaker 2 (00:20:58):

Well, it doesn't matter if you're good, if you're not consistent or reliable. It sounds to me like there's a lot of flakes in production and in music, and I think just the ability to show up repeatedly and deliver time after time, year after year basically sets you apart. And of course you need to keep on getting better. If you consistently sound the way you did 10 years ago, people are going to move on. But I think that one of the things that scares people away immediately about producers or mixers is when they're inconsistent with their results, one time they'll work with them and it'll be amazing and on time and a great experience, and then the next time everything will be totally late and it'll be acting like a maniac, and then the next time it'll be great, and then the next time it'll be great, and then the next time it'll be a fucking lunatic and then it'll disappear for three months. And then you hear about six different projects that never got their files, but then six different projects that did get their files and you don't know what to think. And I've heard about that with people who are really good too. So it kind of doesn't matter how good you are if you're inconsistent.

Speaker 3 (00:22:11):

At this point in my life, this is one of the big revelations I had from this job. I was like, I see some other producers, they just don't evolve. They're not getting better jobs. They keep stuck just because of that. Sometimes I hear from other people who works with them, they say, ah, because we love the guy. He's really good. We love his work, but he's inconsistent because not inconsistent, he is not available or we already worked with him and we didn't feel comfortable while we were in the studio with him. I already got some jobs that the guys were like, we are looking for your work because mostly because we know that you were professional because you keep the schedule and you deliver the files. And as you said before, you were responsible. And sometimes it sounds for someone who's really critical about everything, maybe sounds too little. Think about only the what. I mean, it's like you never hire a producer just because he's responsible. You want a good job. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (00:23:23):

I feel like them doing a good job is assumed, right? You're not going to hire a producer if they suck. So the fact that they're good at production and mixing, you're not even going to be in the conversation if you're not good at it.

Speaker 3 (00:23:36):

No, no. Yeah, I mean it's just that for example, nobody's going to hire someone just because he's responsible. But I mean in certain moments in my life, people chose me because between the factors was like he's more professional than the other guy. So I'm just saying that he's more reliable. There's a bunch of guys that they do an amazing work and because you probably had this situation, someone who recorded an amazing album and you say, my God, this is an amazing album. It's incredible. And then the guys come to you and say, Hey, we want to work with you. And you don't understand why are you guys trying to change the producer for the next record? If the last record sounds just insanely amazing, maybe they will never tell you, but it's just because they're not comfortable, they're not feeling comfortable with the previous producer.

(00:24:30):

And that's a really good tip. Let's say something really important about the life in the studio, which is you have to care always with the music that comes from the band and their music because their music, it's their son, it's their kids. It's the most important thing for them, and you have to care about that. If they see that you don't care, they will leave. And second thing is that you have to keep the studio environment. I always think about that. You have to keep the studio environment a nice workflow. I know that there was a lot of stories of crazy producers that they just, and those albums, they happened like the stories between Ramones and their Few Specter, right? That's the name of the producer.

Speaker 2 (00:25:22):

Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:25:22):

Crazy stories. They made an amazing albums. Okay, it worked. But I think mostly

Speaker 2 (00:25:29):

That's rare.

Speaker 3 (00:25:30):

Yeah, it's rare, right? Mostly if you can keep the vibe, the studio really nice, laughing all the time, such a keeping the good energy, that's also important. People will look for your services because of that as well. Not only because basically everything I said is just that. It's not only about the sound, everything you do backstage and how you deal with the process, all of that matters a lot, sometimes even more than the sound.

Speaker 2 (00:26:00):

Well, I know that there's quite a few bands who have had their biggest record of their entire career with a producer who then don't go back. And if all they cared about was the success of the album, then of course they'd go back if that was the only reason. But fact is I know of some stories that I'm not, I can't say on here, but I know some stories of bands literally going platinum or multi-platinum with a producer having a ridiculous amount of success and then never going back to that person and hating that person. And it's crazy if you think it's only the way it sounds, you're wrong. It's so much more than that because they had a bad experience, they had a bad time, they didn't like the way the producer treated them. They didn't like the way the producer approached their music. They just didn't like it had a bad, bad experience and doesn't matter how many records it sold, and it doesn't matter how good it sounded, they didn't go back. And so if that's true on huge records, it's definitely true on small records.

Speaker 3 (00:27:07):

Oh yeah, definitely. Basically, man, I've heard a million stories about, I'm working with the band in the studio and they're telling me that, man, we really liked the work of the guy, the previous guy that we worked with, but it was unbearable because he would leave in the middle of the session for two hours, three hours, leaving us there waiting and stuff like that. So we didn't feel respected,

Speaker 2 (00:27:35):

Man, I've heard that story so many times. So

Speaker 3 (00:27:37):

Basically it's all about consistency. If you are there and you care about the band and about their music and about everything, they will feel that talking only about the psychological aspect of the things. Somehow the band knows if you care about their music, sooner or later they will find it out, okay, he's here only for the money, he doesn't care. That's one of the things that I always, I was really careful. Every time I'm mixing, doesn't matter which band, which artist I'm working with, if it is a big artist or if it is a small artist, I'm always, I don't know why or how, but I'm always afraid, real fear when I'm mixing a job, when I'm about to deliver a song, the moment when I'm about to click send, I'm always like, is it actually good enough? And then I always come back and listen again and I already changed the entire mix just because before I hit send, I was like, man, let me listen again and doesn't matter how big is the artist or how small, because I think it's important. I know that fear, it's a word that people doesn't like very much or it's not appreciated. You cannot be afraid of doing your job. You just have to do it and everybody's like you have to. It's some kind of, you have to be brave, you have to feel that fear, but you have to keep going,

Speaker 2 (00:29:15):

Do the job anyways,

Speaker 3 (00:29:17):

And that's the most important thing. Even though you are being, what I mean is if we're afraid like, my God, I'm not sure if this is the very best or if they are going to approve or whatever, that's good because you care. Then you're going to listen to it again and then you probably will try to hear from the guys every, because that's what I think every time, I never try at least to never be like the guy who knows everything. I'm always like, in the end, it's you trying to make the band happy. You have to be always aware of that. It's like the guys need to be happy and it's their job. It's going to be, it's your job as well. But in the end, it's their music.

Speaker 2 (00:29:57):

The thing with the fear aspect is if you try to pretend like you don't feel it or that you shouldn't feel it, that doesn't change that you're going to feel it.

Speaker 3 (00:30:08):

It's

Speaker 2 (00:30:08):

A very natural human emotion to feel unless you're a psychopath,

(00:30:12):

You can't feel it. It's a very normal thing to feel and it's okay. It's there for a reason. It's there to protect you. The thing though is when people let it stop them, that's the problem. The real problem is if people don't send the file because they're scared, or if they just put it off and put it off and put it off and put it off and put it off some more, and then that becomes their pattern and people start to recognize that they're always late with their projects. I know of a lot of mixers who were always late, they were afraid to send stuff, so they'd come up with excuses not to do it. I think it's a very common thing what you're saying to think is it good enough and then get scared about it and then remix it. Everyone does that, I think. But the difference is some people don't know when to stop and just say, fuck it. It is what it is. They're going to love it or hate it.

Speaker 3 (00:31:08):

I think that you become a professional in the moment that the InBetween, when you learn how to balance those two feelings because you have to get your stuff done, you have to deliver. Because professionals, they get things done. That's the thing. You hire a professional because it's going to do it, but at the same time, what I was trying to say with my crazy mind and with my bad English, it's that fear. It's not bad. If you feel like if you are afraid sometimes of doing things, that's because you care. Because I also know about people, producers that they just do it, whatever, because they're not afraid. They don't care if the band will not like it. And you have to control that feeling, in my opinion. You have to find the in-between. You cannot be afraid to the point that you don't send it.

(00:32:04):

You have to be a little bit afraid just as some kind of respect for the band, because I care. I'll be really sad if you guys don't like it. I think it's an important feeling. I have that feeling. I was already super disappointed sometimes when you send it and the guy said, that's not what we are looking for. We should try a totally different way of mixing the whole thing. But anyway, again, I was disappointed, but you have to sit there and say, okay, I'm going to try it again. I'm going to do it how real life is.

Speaker 2 (00:32:43):

I mean, speaking of fear, it must've been scary to come here.

Speaker 3 (00:32:46):

Oh man. Sometimes I think if I could go back in time and tell my 35 years version like, Hey man, it's going to be like this, this and this and that, moving to the us, it's going to be like this. I would probably not go. It's scary. It's super tough. It's super difficult. The whole process with the visa, the English, because I thought I knew how to speak English once I get here. I was like, well, I'm not sounding that great yet. But it was tough, man. It's super tough.

Speaker 2 (00:33:22):

How did you go about establishing yourself when you got here? Because you established yourself pretty fast.

Speaker 3 (00:33:27):

It was all about the momentum. What happened was that in 2014, I had the amazing opportunity of mixing the Tony McAlpine album. I was doing the job in Brazil. I was still living there. And in the nam of 2015, I came to the Nam show and I met him personally, and I even mixed one of his songs for the album, the last song, we did it together in a studio, the studio in the back of the house of CY. That was, imagine for me, I'm a guitar player.

Speaker 2 (00:34:01):

It's a pretty cool trip

Speaker 3 (00:34:02):

To

Speaker 2 (00:34:03):

The US

Speaker 3 (00:34:03):

Man. I was in the name show with Tony Opin, hanging out with him and Michael Masker, he's manager at the time, amazing guys. And I was a Tony Macin fan, and those were the very best days of my life for sure. And then right after the Nam show, I went to the studio. It wasn't C Vice Studio, but it's a studio that he has in the back that is run by Greg Vth. Super nice guy, super amazing guy with an incredible story, amazing career. And I was there mixing a song with Tony Mcco, and then I was like, man, and he was really happy with my work, even though I was like always doubting myself. I was like, man, is it real? Is he really liking it? Because he was super excited with the mixing and everything, but now I believe him because we already did two albums in a row and we are working on the No,

Speaker 2 (00:35:01):

There's the proof.

Speaker 3 (00:35:02):

Yeah, so probably he actually likes it. I say that all the time for him,

Speaker 2 (00:35:06):

You think?

Speaker 3 (00:35:07):

Yeah, I said

Speaker 2 (00:35:08):

Allegedly.

Speaker 3 (00:35:09):

He

Speaker 2 (00:35:09):

Allegedly likes

Speaker 3 (00:35:10):

It. I always say to him, man, sometimes you say stuff for me that it's hard to believe because I'm a really big fan of you. And he was, yeah, I love your job and everything. I was like, man, well, if he's recording the third album, if we're still working together after three albums, probably he liked it. So anyway, so basically I was there January of 2015, NM show mixing a song with Tony. And after the show I also, during the NAM show, I talked to a band from San Francisco and I mixed their album as well. And I was like, man, if I want to go to la, that's the moment. I have a connection there for anyone who wants to move to the US and want to get an artist visa. It's really important to have a career, a really strong background if you want to apply for those visas and stuff.

(00:36:05):

It's a really good advice for people abroad to know that. And I was like, man, I already did some cool stuff in Brazil. I'm pretty sure I went to the lawyer. So it was all about the momentum. I was here for 15 days in the US and then I decided, okay, I went to a immigration lawyer. I discussed with him, okay, how does it work, this thing of going to the us? And he told me, I thought, well, I can, it's possible. And then I was like, I'm going to move. It doesn't matter in my life in Brazil at that time, it was amazing. I was in heaven. I have to say in 2015, I recorded bands because I was living in Sao Paulo, but I was recording bands all over Brazil, people from the south, from extreme south. I even remember that I was recording a band in Santa Caina, my state.

(00:36:59):

I went to the Rocking Rio to mix Project 46 and John Wayne Live. And right after I finished the Rocking Rio, the day after I traveled to northeast of Brazil, Forza to record a band, super nice band called Jack the Joker. Love those guys. And I still remember the feeling I was in Santa Cata, I was watching rock and reel and I was like, wow, man, in two days I'll be there mixing for the broadcast for the tv, and then I'm going to go right after the rock and reel. I'm going to go to the northeast and record a band. And then I went back to Sao Paulo and I was recording a band from another city. I was like, man, that's life. It's super tough to do stuff like that, to be recording so many people and do so many special things. But still, I was like, man, my dream was to live in LA and have a studio here.

(00:37:55):

So if you ask me what is your dream? My dream is what I do now. It's like one day I was having this conversation with a few friends. They're like, so what is your biggest dream? What do you dream about? And they were like, oh, I would like to go to a certain place or whatever. What about you Ari? And I was like, man, my dream was to be live in LA and have a studio. That's my dream. And here I am doing that. So basically I did it because of the momentum. I was like, if there is a moment where I can actually move to la now I'm recording with Tony Alpen mixing his album already. I was also working a lot with Achilles. I still work a lot with Achilles, and I knew he was moving to LA as well. I was like, man, we will have work. And at that point, 2015, I already started to mix a lot more. So when I moved to the us I had a lot of million mixing from Brazil that I could do remotely. So of course I spent the entire year of 2015 preparing myself for that. So I was scheduling a lot of mixing stuff, even if I didn't have any work.

Speaker 2 (00:39:06):

So you didn't just move, you had a ton of momentum and opportunity happening at the same time, which I think that that's key. I mean, I have known people who have moved to LA with zero momentum and zero connections and still managed to make it work. But that's super rare though for the most part, the people I know who have gone to LA and made it work went there once, they already had the momentum going. They figured out a way to get the momentum going, and then at the right moment, they capitalized on it by putting themselves in a better environment like la. Those are the people I know who, if you just want to talk about the majority of people I know who have succeeded moving to la, it's been in that type of situation, it's much easier when you already have momentum and know people.

Speaker 3 (00:39:58):

Oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (00:39:59):

It's going to be hard either way, but it's going to be a little easier if you already know people.

Speaker 3 (00:40:03):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically, man, I was like, that's one of the good things about Brazil, because I always thought, man, if I made it in Brazil, a country that has no matter at all, if I work really hard, pay attention to details. Why is this thing not going to work? I believe that. I always believe that. I always believe that if you're a nice guy, if you do your job, if you care, that's the word. If you care, because whatever person you work with, they have to see in your eyes that you care. And that's important sometimes more than the sound because if they feel like, man, we are working with this guy and looks like, sounds like he's another member of the band, that's something that I always did. I'm really passionate of what I do. I'm really passionate, and then people feel that. So I was like, I trusted my instincts. I was like, man, it's going to work. It's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (00:41:07):

Do you have the ability to make yourself care about bands that you may not like very much?

Speaker 3 (00:41:14):

Yes.

Speaker 2 (00:41:15):

Yeah, I was able to do that to a degree. There's always a limit though, of course, of

Speaker 3 (00:41:19):

Course.

Speaker 2 (00:41:19):

But I found that with lots of bands that I worked on, I wouldn't listen to them in real life, but when we were working, I became a fan of theirs.

Speaker 3 (00:41:30):

I know exactly what we're talking about. I already had that feeling, especially because I was in Brazil. Imagine in Brazil, we don't have a high number of metal producers in Brazil. We have no more than four guys in Brazil right now we have more. But back in 2015, 2014 when I was there, there was no more than four guys that were professionally working with that. And when certain bands, they were looking for my work because man, it's like we want to do this job that's like muse ish or some rock ish. And I know that we know that you work mostly with mad, but in the end, you are the person that probably here in Brazil, you are the only one who will understand our music because it's close, Elise, because there is guitars, there is drums. We want real drums and all of that, you know what I mean?

(00:42:26):

And I was like, okay. And that's something that man, I'm so emotional about those things because when the band comes to my studio, and even though I know that their music, it's not exactly my style, but I know in their eyes I can see that they really want to work with me. That's something that always changed my mind. I was like, man, I have to do it. Because the guys, they actually like my work. They respect me as a music producer and they're happy for being here. When they get in the studio, they're like, man, we are so happy that we are here with you and all of that. And I'm always like, oh man, okay, I'm going to do it. Because it has to be the reciprocity, is that the right word?

Speaker 2 (00:43:12):

Yes.

Speaker 3 (00:43:12):

The reciprocity is already there. It's like the guys want to work with you, they respect you. And I always think, okay, it's not that far. Okay. You just have to listen a couple of bands that they like and they have to listen to their stuff a little bit more. And I try, so in Brazil it's really common to have that because since you have just few rock metal producers, it's more likely for a Brazilian producer who works in this world of metal rock and roll with distorted guitars in general, it's more likely for a Brazilian guy to work with a bunch of different styles

Speaker 2 (00:43:53):

Because where else are they going to go?

Speaker 3 (00:43:55):

So you don't have options. They either go to the us and required with the producer it, it's a big reference for them, but it's always the current difference in the current. It's always unbelievable. So it's basically impossible and it's pretty likely to have a Brazilian guy trying to do million different styles. And that happened to me. I already had all kinds of references for my work, and I was always trying to respect the Bandon going after that style, even though sometimes it wasn't actually my style, but that was really good. I learned a lot. I remember that there are moments in our career, there are moments where we are just mixing drums with samples like a hundred percent on everything. There are moments that you are just like, fuck it, I'm going to use only the natural sound. Sometimes you mix it. And I remember that I was in the middle of a process like that. I was like, man, I don't want to use sample anymore, blah, blah, blah. And then comes a band that just ask you to do almost like electronic music with metal or with rock and roll, and then you have to evolve and you have to do your very best trying to understand what the band wants. You learn, and it's a really rich experience when you have to do that. So I feel really fortunate when those situation happens.

Speaker 2 (00:45:18):

What is it that you listen for when you're trying to understand a style of music that's not your own? Like say someone comes in with a pop punk band or something and you don't listen to pop punk. What are the kinds of things that you're going to study in order to better understand what they do?

Speaker 3 (00:45:35):

Usually the music structure is something really important for me. I always think, okay, how this band or this style happens, does the chorus happens really early, the song or later, what they used to do. They do intro verse bridge and chorus, or they have some weird structure. For example, I remember when I started to work with deaf metal bands and really heavy bands.

Speaker 2 (00:46:05):

Yeah, death metal and their structures. It's kind of funny.

Speaker 3 (00:46:09):

It's like, what do you mean it's structure? There's no structure. It's like

Speaker 2 (00:46:13):

It's just riffs.

Speaker 3 (00:46:14):

The song is not like intro A, B, C, A, B, C, D. No, it's like A, B, C, D, F, g, H. It's like different parts, just a bucket of different parts all throughout the entire song. So structure is really important. And of course drums, I always pay attention how the drums sound like from the tuning the guys used to do from the size of the symbols and especially the mixing, is everything super compressed or not? What kind of amps they use for the guitars. If you feel that it's like ish with G 1270 fives or with V thirties, I try to pay attention to the aesthetic of the whole thing. In general, the sound wise and structure wise, I think that's the most important thing. And of course a little bit of the message of the band. I don't see here many people talking about that. Sometimes you want to the band use a certain band as a reference that has a super positive message and they're super down like, oh man, I don't think the message you were trying to say in this song or in your band actually fits the other band because that's a happy band and your band is a super sad band. That's also something that I take into consideration.

Speaker 2 (00:47:45):

I feel like if you understand their aesthetic, you understand their structure and you understand their message. That's a lot right there.

Speaker 3 (00:47:55):

And also, I remember a bunch of bands, especially in 2008, 2009, I had a bunch of people looking at myself because my name became popular because I recorded a band called Pon Cell. They were super popular in Brazil in the underground world. Of course, they were not in TV or on the radio of course, but they were super popular, but they were some kind of new metal in Portuguese. But anyway, it was heavy music. It was heavy music, and right before I record them, I was still playing in bands and I was a power metal guy. I used to anger and all that stuff, which is, it was already a big gap between the stuff that I used to listen to and the stuff that I was working with. And after I record them, I started to get a bunch of calls from other bands.

(00:48:54):

People who were like, we play heavy music, but they play like Def Metal, they play like trash metal, different stuff. Of course, some of those bands. I also listen to, I'm a big Metallica fan. I love Iron Maiden, all those stuff. A lot of different genres. Were looking for my services and I had to do a lot of research because I could easily record a band that was like Foo Fighters ish in a week and the next week I was recording a band that wanted to sound like sleep, not, and that was really, really important for me to grow and to learn.

Speaker 2 (00:49:33):

It's interesting that you're saying this because sometimes would nail the mix students, and I've said this before, but I'll say it again because we're talking about it and I hope that now the mixed subscribers are listening to this, but sometimes we'll have people who will not the band that we have on that month and just won't mix it, and I think that that's the stupidest, narrow-minded, dumb decision. Any opportunity you have to learn about how something is done, especially something is done well, you should take that opportunity because you don't know what you're going to encounter in the real world and in the real world. You have to be able to work with what you're given to work with.

Speaker 3 (00:50:18):

Yes, first of all, they are losing the opportunity to learn, and second of all, this job, as I said before, it's amazing. I love my job, but it's all about sacrifices because something that you have to learn, at least for me, that's a rule that I have. For me, it's like it's not about doing only what I want. So when they say, I'm not going to mix this band because that's not my style, you never know when the only job you have that month or it's going to be a band that wants to work with you and it's not your style. As we said before, I know a lot of well succeed producer musicians that they had to work with a certain band because that was the only job that he had for that period of his life. You were not depreciating your work when you do that. You were learning. Imagine that there was a lot of bands that worked with me. They were like, we know that you were the metal guy, but we want something a little bit different because you were the closest we can have. I worked really hard and I listened a lot to their references and I made it work, and after that, it was one of the most important albums I ever did because I was like, man, that's me not being me, but at the same time, it's me because I did it. So

Speaker 2 (00:51:39):

It is you.

Speaker 3 (00:51:40):

It's still me, and you learn a lot mixing. For example, when you record a ska band that has trumpets like trombones and stuff like that, it's amazing. I was not used to do that and I had to do it, and still in the end I was like, well, now I know how to do it. If I have to do, if I have a metal band that has some trumpets in the middle of the song, I know how to do it.

Speaker 2 (00:52:02):

Which does happen.

Speaker 3 (00:52:03):

Which does happen now, especially nowadays where we have all kinds of mixtures in the music. If there is a SC band on the URM in the nail of the mix, if the guy doesn't do it, because man, I'm all about core and stuff like that. You were losing the opportunity to learn. It's going to be an amazing experience for you. You should.

Speaker 2 (00:52:27):

Yeah. I remember we had country on one month a few years ago, and some of the death metal guys freaked out. They freaked out. I knew that they were going to not be happy about it, but I didn't realize how bad they would freak out.

Speaker 3 (00:52:41):

Wow.

Speaker 2 (00:52:43):

Then a lot of them felt like assholes because they actually had a really good time doing it. Look, I don't like country music at all. I actually kind of hate it, even though I had a really good time with the mixer. He's Billy Decker a great guy, but I don't like that kind of music. I don't like listening to it. It makes me uncomfortable, and so for me, it was tough to just have it on and have to hear it a million times, so I get it. I get it. If a metalhead doesn't want to work on it, I understand you should do it anyways.

Speaker 3 (00:53:14):

Yeah, you have to do it, man,

(00:53:17):

Every time. That's what I think. Every time I still remember now I'm going to sound emotional, really emotional, but it's true. I still remember when I was in my city Zuma, south of Brazil, super small city like countryside, totally countryside, and the only thing that I wanted for my life was to be able to wake up every day and make music work with music. So far that's still my goal. I just want to keep working with music. It's better than working in whatever other job because I'm able to deal every day with the stuff that I love the most, which is music. In the end, it's all music, of course. I definitely prefer working with Def Metal, a bunch of blast beats. Then work with country music, but anyway, if I was working with country music, I would still be happy because it's still music.

Speaker 2 (00:54:11):

Still better than a real job.

Speaker 3 (00:54:13):

Yeah, it's a real job. I love it.

Speaker 2 (00:54:16):

Even what I do, I don't consider a real job. I don't consider music a real job, but even though it is, I kind am saying that halfway kidding. I don't know. I feel like you need to kind of think about it a little bit as if it is a real job so that you'll do the things that you don't want to do

Speaker 3 (00:54:35):

Because

Speaker 2 (00:54:36):

If you're in the job market, the odds of you landing your perfect ideal job at the perfect company with the perfect salary and exactly a field that you love, and that's super unlikely also in the real world, so if you're lucky enough to get to work on music, I mean, you might need to work on some music that's not your favorite.

Speaker 3 (00:54:57):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:54:58):

That's okay.

Speaker 3 (00:54:58):

It's okay. It's

Speaker 2 (00:54:59):

Not a big deal. It's not a big deal. It's part of having a job.

Speaker 3 (00:55:02):

Yeah, it's part of having a job. Even if you have the job of your dreams, if you work in the company that you've always wanted, if, let's suppose that you work on Netflix and you'll love that. Maybe someday you not be that happy having to wake up at 8:00 AM to do something because we wake up every day different, but anyway, you should never lose sight of what is your goal and what are the most important things in our life. That's what I think every time I'm working with music, if I'm having a bad time, somehow that happens. Let's say I always think, well, it's your music. You have to be happy because it could be worse. It could be working with a different thing.

Speaker 2 (00:55:44):

At least a few times a year, me and my partners will just start laughing that we did this with metal. It makes us laugh. It's just so cool to be able to do this. We didn't have to do this with a style of music that we don't know

Speaker 3 (00:56:00):

Or

Speaker 2 (00:56:00):

Don't like. We got to do it with what we do know and what we do love, and it's kind of hilarious, but it's really, really cool to be able to do something in music that's real and even if it was in another genre, I'd be okay with it. Maybe not everyone thinks that far ahead though. They don't think of it in terms of a job. They don't think of it in terms of a career. They just think of it in terms of something fun and then in that case, working on something that they don't like. It doesn't register as fun. It's interesting because at the same time that I don't think that anybody wants to stop enjoying this kind of work. I think the difference between a professional and a hobbyist is that a professional, well, one of the differences is that a professional will work on stuff that they don't like and will keep on working when they're not enjoying themselves and just will do the job. Most important thing. That's

Speaker 3 (00:56:59):

What it's all about. Being a professional, it's like it has a relation with what we said about consistency. You have to be there always. It's like he's going to be there.

Speaker 2 (00:57:08):

He might not always like it.

Speaker 3 (00:57:09):

Yeah, maybe he will be unhappy doing that, but he's going to be there. Why? Because he's a professional. We know he will be there. I like talking about those stuff, about being resilient. I think that's the word I like because you have to overcome always, and you have to be ready and it's not going to be only about what you want. It's not going to be a hundred percent pleasure. Even though every time I see you in the studios around the world doing the mix, I'm always like, well, that must be the perfect job.

Speaker 2 (00:57:46):

Yeah, but you're not seeing the jet lag

Speaker 3 (00:57:51):

Man. I imagine. I imagine, yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:57:52):

You're not seeing the jet lag or any of that stuff, or we just show you the cool parts. It's all cool. But yeah, even with traveling around for now, the mix, people just see the part that we're showing them. They don't see the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (00:58:08):

Yeah, of course they don't see the backstage, right? Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:58:11):

They don't see the exhaustion. Maybe you could see it on my face back a few years ago in some of the videos, but nobody, except for the people doing it, see what goes into doing it, which is fine. We're not doing nail the mix to make people feel sorry for us or anything like that. While I agree that yes, it's the coolest fucking job, if it seems like it's always fun, maybe we're doing a good job with that because it's not always fun,

Speaker 3 (00:58:38):

But it looks a lot of fun. I have to see the most positive way possible. I'm seeing that

Speaker 2 (00:58:45):

It's not though. That's the thing. There's times where you're absolutely beyond exhausted. Like for instance, in October of 2019, I traveled to LA, was there for five days, traveled home for two days, traveled to Vegas, did the summit for seven days, went home for two days, went to Denmark for three days,

(00:59:12):

Then went to New Jersey for two weeks, and then that was right there two months. And so every single time you're starting to get comfortable and starting to adjust, you immediately leave. You never get comfortable anywhere. But we're doing really cool things. Like the one in LA was, we were doing now the mix with Y Boren and between the Barry and me, then we did the URM summit, then we went to Denmark to do two I Madson with suicide silence, and then we went to New Jersey to do a course with Will Putney. So that's all stuff that we couldn't not do. We had to do all of it of course, and it was all really fucking cool. But nobody's seeing how tiring, brutally tiring all of that is. But that's okay. That's not anybody's problem but ours. But I guess what I'm saying is though, as cool as it seems, we still have to do stuff we don't like to do in order to make that happen.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):

Yeah. Yeah, man. I think that these days with internet, Instagram and all those stuff that it's nice but not always nice. It's really likely to have people who complains all the time about amazing lives. Just like we see documentaries. When you see artists that they are, they have an amazing life, they are super successful. They're playing for million people. But you can see that in the backstage, they're not happy, they're unhappy. And the impression I have from you with your posts and everything, I always have a super positive feeling from you, and I think it's a really good thing for the people who follows you. Basically what I'm saying is you were an amazing example for people. Thanks, because I always see you post, I remember a post where you took a picture of Yin Boreen studio and I said, it's incredible being here doing this, saying positive things, aware that your life, it's different and you do what you love.

(01:01:22):

And I think it's super important to have people nowadays doing that because there are so many people that they don't realize those things. Just like we said, maybe you're not recording the band you wanted, but you were still paying your bills and being able to work with music. So I think that that's one of the things that you guys always give the very best impression, and it's always a good example. It's being a reference for people. It's tough because I see sometimes I see people, some producers or people I think like, you shouldn't be saying that publicly, and that's not the case of you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):

There are some things you should just keep inside your head. So it's a choice. What you put out there is a decision. You could choose to show people all the shitty parts or share all your shitty feelings, or you can choose to show them the cool parts and the parts that might inspire them. And I feel like everybody has negative feelings and bad days and shitty things in their life, but we don't need more of that in the world. What good is it for me to post that stuff online? People already have enough of that in their own lives. What they don't have is the cool stuff I'm doing. So I'll share some of that with them and who cares about my problems? They're my problems to solve. But I would feel very strange sharing that. So it's not fake. The positive stuff that we share is a decision, but it's not fake. That stuff is actually happening and it's actually how I feel about it, but it's a very conscious decision to show that and not show the shitty stuff. It's like editing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):

You guys know what you guys are doing in the moment. For example, you guys had a country band in nail the mix. It's almost like may you not like it, but you have to do it. So basically it's like you guys are being responsible with that. It's like if you want to be a professional, that's the kind of thing that we will face it. So basically that's what you guys are doing. You guys are always showing people real life, I think. Well, I mean of course there is moments where you guys don't show how tired and everything, but in the end you guys show the best parts. People are having a good time with you guys. But there is moments where you guys are like, okay, this is something that is important for your career.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):

Well, yeah. I mean, nobody's going to benefit from seeing the dumb stuff related to coordinating a bunch of travel for

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):

70

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):

People for the summit or something. Yeah, wow. There's no reason for me to post about that. What would be the point?

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):

Booking

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):

70 plane tickets for 70 different people coming from all over the world and all landing within three or four hours of each other, and it's a lot of fucking work and it's not fun, but there's no reason there's nothing that anyone's going to gain from me posting about that stuff. So there's a bunch of stuff that has to happen in order to make things work, but you don't show everybody the wiring

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):

Behind

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):

Your rig.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):

But everybody prefer posting the post of your rack, like beautiful rack, the front, but the front, but never the rare, right?

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):

Unless if you just that day tied it all up with cable ties and all that, people will show it then

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):

And then it's like, oh, looks beautiful. Now let me show it to you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):

Two hours later it's back to normal,

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):

But almost never looks cool.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):

No, and it doesn't matter though.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):

Doesn't matter. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):

It's not important. It's important to you because you need your shit to work, but it's not important to your clients and it's not important to anybody on the internet that follows you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):

Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):

Hey everybody, if you're enjoying this podcast, then you should know that it's brought to you by URM Academy, URM Academy's mission is to create the next generation of audio professionals by giving them the inspiration and information to hone their craft and build a career doing what they love. You've probably heard me talk about Nail the Mix before, and if you're a member, you already know how amazing it is. The beginning of the month, nail the mix members, get the raw multi-tracks to a new song by artists like Lama, God Angels and Airwaves. Knock loose OPEC Shuga, bring me the Horizon. Gaira asking Alexandria Machine Head and Papa Roach among many, many others over 60 at this point. Then at the end of the month, the producer who mixed it comes on and does a live streaming walkthrough of exactly how they mix the song on the album and takes your questions live on air.

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Members also get access to one-on-ones, which are basically office hour sessions with us and Mix Rescue, which is where we open up one of your mixes and fix it up and talk you through exactly what we're doing at every step. So if any of that sounds interesting to you, if you're ready to level up your mixing skills in your audio career, head over to URM Academy to find out more. So you said that one of the basic themes of your life is that you basically see something that you really want and then you force it into reality. Can you explain a little bit about what you meant by that? I think you said that in the pre-interview I kind of do the same thing. That's why I'm curious what your take on that is.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):

One of the things I think for example, you have to change the reality of your stuff. For example, let's talk about something different from music that explains better losing weight. For example, I just lost 40 pounds,

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):

Good job,

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):

Just 40 pounds, and basically I didn't find any excuses, but in the end, all I have to do is you have to lose weight. I have to wake up every day and I have to see that my weight is going down and no matter, because sometimes I see people, oh, because I'm not eating this thing here, I'm not thinking that thing. I'm not eating, not drinking too much. All that matters in the end is the result. So basically you have to work until you see the results happening. And for example, I was already in the place where I was like, man looks like I'm doing everything perfect. I listened to the mix and for me it's perfect. But back in the day in 2003, 2002, the bands were not happy. And instead of arguing with them saying that that's a good mix, I was just like, okay, if they're saying it's not good, you have to just accept it.

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And then I had to change it. So I go to the computer again and I redo the whole thing until it sounds different and until I actually see now it's closer to what they want or to the reference they gave me. And that's really tough because you have, yesterday I saw a Porsche in Sunset and there was a line from Porsche from the guy, which was changing is difficult, improving, it's even more difficult. That's what it's all about sometimes it's always about the Sylvester Stallone philosophy. You have to keep pushing all the time. That's the thing. And what I try to say when I said that in the preview interview is that I have my goals really clear, and that's another thing that makes things easier. You have to know what it wants because if you don't know what it wants, probably you'll not find the right tools to get what you want because you don't know what you want. Let's suppose that you were sick and you feel bad every day, but you don't even know that you were sick. You will not do anything. You'll probably go to the doctor and everything and they will run tests and everything, but you still don't know what you have. So until the day you know what you have, which means what do you want, you'll never find the tools to fix it. So basically it's like never giving up until you get it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):

Once you know what you want, you figure out how to get there, and then you just don't stop until you're there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:45):

That comes the consistency again. Sometimes I made some really bad decisions in my life, some really fucking bad decisions. I was like, man, I shouldn't have said that. I shouldn't have posted that. I was like, but now it's done. It's okay. But because of consistency, and I had es for that, I already said bad things when I was in Brazil, I had really bad moments and why am I here? Why am I still evolving and having a good time and established in la for example, having worked here, working a lot here because of consistency, because at least I was saying a lot of bad things. I was taking really bad decisions for my career, but I was still caring about my music and about my mixes, about the production and everything. Of course, you have to study a lot about the best next step for your career, like marketing, what to post or not to post, how should I manage my Instagram? All those stuff are important, but in the end of the day, the most important thing is to be good and to keep doing a really good job. If I answer the question

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):

Well, it just sounds to me like you decide on something that you want, you figure out what the most important things are that you need to do in order to get the result, and then you just go for the result and don't stop until you have it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):

Yeah, that's the thing. It's like I will only stop working hard to get something until I see the results. Of course, I enjoy the process because that's life.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):

Did you enjoy the process of weight loss? Nope,

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):

Not at all.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):

I think it's fucking horrible. I hated it. I still hate it,

Speaker 3 (01:12:30):

But anyway, you know what I mean? But anyway, it's all about the results anyway. There is people that they're like, well, I found a way to weed stuff that I liked and I would try that way. I try to weed this, this and this and that, and I think it's going to work. Maybe you can try for a week

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):

And then it doesn't work,

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):

And then it doesn't work. Of course,

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):

Then you have to go back to torturing yourself

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):

And then you have to go back to torturing and you have to accept it. It's all about doing what is needed for the result. That's basically what I try to say because I see some people that they have talent and they just started a year, two years ago, and they never recorded a full album. I see that they have talent. They were already recording, they already mixed good songs, they produce good bands, their production sounds really nice in the end and everything. But he starts to act in the social media. One year after he starts working as a music producer, he starts acting as if he was already a big star,

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):

Andy Wallace.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):

Andy Wallace, and I'm like, man, you don't have a single album. You've never recorded an entire album. You don't have more than, I dunno, 400 hours of recording in the studio. How can you go out and speak as if you were a professional yet? It's too soon. So you have to face the reality of things and you have to go for it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):

I want to go back to your early days. I kind of want to know how someone in Brazil in the nineties starts to learn how to record or ever and finds the equipment to record with because I know that Brazil and Mexico aren't the same place, obviously, of course, but I have family in Mexico and I know what it's like and I'm sure that there's a lot of similarities and I remember what it was like in the nineties when I'd go there for a summer and I'd try to find anything to do with music. It was close to impossible. So I imagine Brazil would be similar.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):

It's kind of the same thing. You were right. I would talk for myself, what I had to do. It was like, I just want it. It's crazy how it's going to sound, but I just wanted to be a music producer. I still remember when I started recording, I was like, man, I love so much doing this thing. I have such a good feeling, such a good vibe, such a good energy when I'm recording in a band and all of that. I think that thing that pushed me to be a music producer was the documentary about the black album In the end, Bob Rock is my

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):

A year and a half

Speaker 3 (01:15:16):

The life of Metallica. That changed my life. I was like, that's what I want to do for my life. The videos of them in the studio, the things that Bob Rock said to the band, and I always preferred the first tape because I watched it on tape. VHSI always preferred the first than the second one because the second one was when they started playing and all the shows and the tour and the first one is on the studio. So I watched 80% more the first one than the second. I just won it, man. It was really tough to get equipment and everything. One of the things that I always kept in my mind, I was always like, okay, if I want any of my records to sound like any of those records, I love any Metallica album, any GRA was a really big reference for me in the beginning because GRA at the time when I started was super popular and it was my favorite band at the time,

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):

Sura

Speaker 3 (01:16:17):

Sura. I have to say that I started to sura later. It wasn't my thing in the very beginning, can you believe that? I'm not proud of this, but nowadays I am.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):

You like what you like.

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):

They are amazing, man. They started everything. They are the kings of the Brazilian medal. They're amazing. But anyway, later on I found them and of course it's unbelievably good, but I was always like, okay, if I want to sound like those records, and I already saw pictures of those guys in the studio, I was trying to find stuff because there was no internet, there was no YouTube, there was no neo the mix to know exactly what the guys were doing. So I was like, how am I going to know what should I do? What is a compressor? How do I deal with it? And I was in the south of Brazil. I was not even in Sao Paulo because in Sao Paulo there was a recording school one and I wasn't there. It was not affordable for me as well. So I was like, okay, let me go on whatever magazines and interviews that they have.

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Oh, I know he uses Marshall, like JCM 2000 or J CM 900, and I was reading a lot of Guitar Players magazine and I was like, okay, so they use JCM 900 on this album. I was reading an interview with Kiro and Half Everything Crew and they were like, oh, we use Meza Boogie and J CM 2000 on the guitars. The drums are recorded with sometimes you find stuff. So basically it was possible to find what they were using and that's cool, but not how they were using. So I was just using, okay, let me guess things here.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):

Part one at least is what they were using.

Speaker 3 (01:18:05):

So I was like, okay, let me try to see some pictures of the drums. The mics are like this and that. Okay, let me try it. That's the way I started. And to afford things, like to buy things in Brazil, it's super expensive just so an American can understand. It's like it's whatever Marshall you see for, I don't know, $800 in the Guitar Center in Brazil, it's going to cost 1,600. That's what it costs in Brazil. It's double.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):

So how did you find the gear in the first place?

Speaker 3 (01:18:34):

Believe it or not, that's not the worst part. We have gear in Brazil. It's crazy. Even

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):

In the nineties.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):

Even in the nineties I was talking, I dunno why because Brazil, it's a country that there is a lot of people, poor people a lot. I dunno, 60% of the people, I'm sorry for the numbers, I'm not in special about that. If someone is hearing and it's from Brazil, don't get mad at me please. But it's like a lot of people, a high percentage of the people are really poor. But the other side, the people that are really rich, they are incredibly rich and they buy equipment, they travel all the time to the us so it's there. We have the equipment there, so it is available, but it's insanely expensive. It was always expensive. But anyway, I was always paying the price. I was like, okay, if I want to stand out and make my recordings better than anyone else, and I know for sure that 51 50 was the album, the app that it used on machine had and Van Halen use it too. And a lot of those classic albums were recorded with those amps. I need one. So basically I remember that. I was like, okay, I have to do my very best trying to have a 51 50 and a Marshall because then I was cool and then I was like, and then I need a G 12 and a V 30 cabinets, so if I have both, I'm covered. And I worked really hard and I financed stuff in Brazil, we finance everything. Just so you know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):

People do that here too.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):

I mean it's for everything in Brazil, it's a lot more here. Of course you can go to Guitar center and buy an app for, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):

Okay, so when you say everything, what do you mean? You like finance groceries or

Speaker 3 (01:20:19):

No, no, no, no. Sorry. Let me be specific. I was really Brazilian now, sorry. For example, you are going to buy cables. You can go to the music store in the city and it's going to be not that expensive. Let's say something in dollars, let's say like $80 and you finance it in four payments.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):

I got a Facebook ad the other day for a shirt. I don't know why a really ugly shirt. It was $15 and it had a financing option

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):

Probably it's a Brazilian company

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):

Spread over three months. I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):

That's the thing. We have cheap stuff and it's part of our culture and that's because there is some people that it's not affordable for them if they don't do it like that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):

People do what they have to do

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):

And they do it what they have to do. That's true and that's what I did. I financed a lot of stuff and I did it. I was buying the drums and really early in my career I was lucky enough to meet Achilles Priester. He was a mentor for me and he had access for equipment and he was always making things easier for me to afford drums stuff. That's how it happened. But it was really difficult and it's still, it's really difficult. But nowadays at least plugins and digital stuff are better than the time

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):

Man plugins are such a game changer. And I think that people take it for granted here

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):

Because

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):

They don't realize that in a lot of the world finding gear, maybe it's not impossible, but it's a whole different story. Finding gear and the fact that you can get plugins is

Speaker 3 (01:22:01):

It's a blast man. It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):

Yeah, it's amazing. It's for sure amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:22:05):

I still remember at the time there was some M simulators and stuff, but man, nothing sounds like nowadays we have incredible plugins. It's ridiculous what we have nowadays. And I keep remember me taking cabinets out of the cars from the bands helping them because otherwise if you didn't have a Marshall or something, it wouldn't be possible to have an actual real great tone in a record in 2005, 2006. So basically that's one of the things that relates with the stuff I told you that once I establish a goal, I pay the price for that. I was in Santa Caina in the south of Brazil, amazing place. Brazilian, Hawaii. It's a Paradise Meadow band we have, but it's not popular in Sao Paulo. It's easier to find a show to go to a concert. It's easier to find a metal community. That's the right word. Santa Catarina was tough and even tougher to find equipment, but I knew well if those guys, they use those things, that's how you do it. So I have to find it. I need to have it. Of course, I didn't have 10 apps, I only have two. I only had two, but I made it work. It was better than using, I dunno, whatever equipment at the time. Digital thing, digital pedal or something. So basically I always go to the most difficult path.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):

You would basically a detective kind of figure out what was going on through whatever clue you could find.

Speaker 3 (01:23:48):

Let me tell a story, a really good one. Okay, sure. I was recording in 2009 in Sao Paulo and we were looking for the in N tone. Well who didn't that didn't do that in the past, right? Everybody wants the end.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):

Everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:24:04):

Everybody wants the end snip tone. And there was those guys that they also wanted, the band that I was working for working with, the name of the band is Helen, and they even found an eng amp, the Savage 60 to record.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):

Did they find Jeff Loomis too? That part kind of matters.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):

Well, just a little. A little. Not that much, right? But anyway, they were super into getting tone's and snip style and I remember that they showed me, they were like, well, we even found this interview that he did years ago for a certain magazine and they had pictures of the magazine and I remember with his hands on top of a cabinet, and I remember it was like the cabinet didn't have the grill, the cabinet didn't have the cover. And I was like, okay. And then I started this quest for tones as he said. He said in an interview I had, my life is like a quest for tones for guitars. I started to do a big research getting tones and everything. One day it was like, I don't know how, I don't know why my guitars doesn't sound sound as clear as his guitars. And I remember that.

(01:25:17):

And then I was like, what if I try to move the grill away just like I saw him in the picture at that time, I'm talking about 2010, there was already YouTube information, but not as much as we have it nowadays. And I remember that. I was like, and that was it. And I started to, that's one of the things that I do until today, I don't have the grip because I like to position the mics really close to the speaker and that's the way my research happens with stuff like that. And now it's different because now we have those information available you can pay and just do an online course or you can even have it free on YouTube. So the research was really empirical. Does that word make sense? It was just trying things out. I didn't have any access to. I wasn't guided by any other professional. It was all by myself.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):

Trial and error I guess, and a lot of research.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):

Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):

How long was it before your mixes started to sound less shitty to where other people started to respond to them?

Speaker 3 (01:26:25):

I was really fortunate because in 2008 I recorded Infallible one of Hanger's album and Hanger's Hanger is one of Achilles' band. I recorded the album and Achi said, we are going to mix this album with Tommy Newton in Germany. I was like, can I go with you and see him mixing? And he was like, sure, you can go. Let's go together. So I went to Europe to sell, that's the name of the city, amazing city. And I saw Tommy Newton mixing and I don't know why because man, I'm a lucky guy. Tommy Newton, he really liked the recordings and he liked me. He was telling that like, man, you were such a nice guy. He is such a nice guy. Maybe I was even talking to him of maybe being his assistant, but didn't happen at the time for several reasons. And he taught me a lot of his techniques.

(01:27:28):

He was telling me all the time he was mixing the guitars and he was like, when you record guitar next time try to find this amp. Try to use the mic in disposition. So I was there for 10 days and those 10 days just changed my life. So after when I came back from Germany, I started to mix and record in a totally different way and that's when I recorded and what a coincidence, that's when I recorded that band. I told you Ulu and they became super popular in the underground world. And after that I started to, it was crazy. I started to get calls from all places in Brazil. I remember that I was Monday and I was getting a call from Hug Janero, a guy. He was like, oh, last weekend Ulu played here. And we asked who was the guy who recorded your stuff?

(01:28:22):

And then I got a call from Hug Janero from Port Agre, from Sao Paulo. And that was crazy because I think it's kind of the same here. Usually Americans, they travel to LA and to New York and some other places of course, but LA is the center of the big studios. So basically everybody wants to travel to LA to record. We have kind of the same thing in Sao Paulo. Everybody goes to Sao Paulo to record, nobody goes to whatever to any other place. Nowadays it's a little bit different. We have a bunch of good studios in Brazil all over the place. But back in 2008, 2009, basically everybody would go to Sao Paulo to record good stuff or huge Janeiro. And I was having people coming from Sao Paulo to record in Santa Cina. There was like what? He was like, that's not quite right. The situation should be the opposite and everybody should be going to Sao Paulo.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):

It's pretty amazing and mind blowing when you get the opportunity to work with someone that shows you so much stuff that you're never the same afterwards. That's happened to me a few times where just spending a few weeks with somebody, suddenly I'm a lot better.

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):

Yeah, man. It's like with Tommy Newton, it was unbelievable. I was like, man, why is this guy telling me all those stuff? He was saying that just because I don't know. And Tommy Neil told me he recorded, he was the producer of the Keeper of the Seven Keys too and he also recorded and the produced one Waves and he recorded at the time Gumma Ray. And I remember walking his dog with him and he was telling me stories about the Keeper two, the keeper of the Seven Keys two. And I was like, man, how fortunate I am I here walking with the guy who produced those albums and telling me stories about Michael Kiki and all those guys recording. So that was a big life changer for me. And later on I was still researching and every time I was in a studio in Sao Paulo, I was talked to someone and he was telling me about any technique or equipment or whatever. But basically I learned with life. I never had a school, I never went to school. I never had any mentor or anything. My main hero, my professor, I would say Toto. He was the guy who changed my life.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):

I mean that sounds like a mentorship, a short one. But yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:30:49):

Really short. It was no more than 10 days.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):

I mean sounds like you got all you needed in those 10 days.

Speaker 3 (01:30:56):

It was life changing.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):

I really think that if someone wants to get really good, they need to do both of the things that you're talking about doing is a research the shit out of things on their own, but B, try to find people who are doing the stuff that they really like and find a way to learn from them.

Speaker 3 (01:31:18):

Yes, that's the thing. Another guy who was really important for me was De Ward because he was the guy who produced rebirth and temp of Shadows from gra and those albums were like a benchmark for every Brazilian metalhead. I was always researching and trying to know how he works and I remember that. Then I started to work with Achilles Priester and he was telling me, I was like, man, I can't believe it. He's telling me how Dennis does his things. But of course Achilles is not an engineer. So he knew, he was just describing, well, he used to put a microphone like this or that, but he didn't know exactly what was the model of the microphone or which preamp it was running through. But anyway, it was like, okay, now I have some more information at least it was amazing as well, but everything was related with the wheel for knowing things.

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):

When you got to LA, I know that you said that you had some momentum. How long was it before you started to feel like you're in a more stable position? Not nearly as scary

Speaker 3 (01:32:27):

Right now. I'm feeling comfortable now. I feel like every time I come back from some other place and I get in the airport, I feel like LA is my house now. That's the feeling that I started to a year ago, to be honest. It took me, I would say four years. After four years, it's when you actually mix with the city. I would say after the third year it was things started to be super nice, super cool. But after the fourth year with the connections, jobs and I started to have some more stability.

Speaker 2 (01:33:01):

That's not that long.

Speaker 3 (01:33:02):

I'm an anxious guy, so I want to solve things quick. Every time I have something, I want something. Not only I want that thing really bad, but I want to do it as quick as possible. For example, Sao Paulo, it was crazy because I moved to Sao Paulo because of course I was living in Santa Catina and then I was like, okay, I have to go to the capital of Brazil too. I have to go to Sao Paulo. There is the place where things happened. And then I moved in 2011 and man, one year after I moved to Sao Paulo, I was already working with some important bands and things were happening there. So basically I was in Sao Paulo for four years and eight months. And this between, I recorded some of the most important metal bands in Brazil, like Project 46. John Wayne Pon was already recorded them before I go there. But I moved to Sao Paulo, but it was fast. But for me, believe it or not, four years, this was too much. I was expecting, okay, maybe two years because sometimes I set up some goals that are later on I realized, okay, that really possible.

Speaker 2 (01:34:19):

Yeah, I do that too,

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):

But I'm happy because seriously, I know that four years is fast, but it was only four years because I was searching all the time nonstop for that. I never stopped. I never gave up.

Speaker 2 (01:34:35):

So say that you had no career and you're starting out now, not in the US but somewhere like Brazil or some random spot where it's a lot harder. What are the first things that you do now?

Speaker 3 (01:34:50):

I always believe in the quality of the stuff and in working hard. So what I would do sometimes people ask me, Hey man, what should I do to have a career? And I always like say, start with the first step. I think that standing out is the key. Doesn't matter where you leave, which country you are, you have to find a band in your city and you have to make them sounding unbelievable. That's what I would do. I would look for a band and make an album that is so amazing that everybody, that doesn't matter what happens, no matter where you are, everybody's going to be like, okay, this is amazing. Have you ever heard that band that they just recorded with this guy? It sounds amazing. I think that's the most important thing nowadays. I would add on top of that, taking care of social media, like posting a lot on Instagram and that's it. But I still believe that quality is the most important thing

Speaker 2 (01:35:57):

And it's relative too. If you're in high school or something in the middle of nowhere and there's three bands in your area and you are a beginner, you make 'em sound as amazing as you possibly can. Hopefully more amazing than they've ever sounded so that the other two bands

Speaker 3 (01:36:20):

Want

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):

To come to you and go from there.

Speaker 3 (01:36:23):

But now we live in the internet era, so it's more likely for them to stand out, not only their city, but maybe some other places because that's a difference from 20 years ago. It's like now we have internet, so everybody doesn't matter where you are, someone is going to listen. It's possible for someone in the other side of the world to listen to your stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):

So just start.

Speaker 3 (01:36:50):

Just start. That's the thing. Sometimes I see some guys, they're like, hi man, I want to study. I want to have some private lessons with you. That's something that I do sometimes because I want to learn this technique and this and this and that because I want to be a professional. I want to be a music producer. And I was like, okay, we can have lessons and everything, but if you want to be a music producer, start working with a band right now. That's the most important thing.

Speaker 2 (01:37:18):

Start producing music if you want to be a music producer.

Speaker 3 (01:37:20):

Yes, yes. And that's something that sometimes people forget. That's crazy. Sometimes they want to be on Instagram talking about their mixing techniques and how they make things sound. I was like, man, you need to record bands. Your life is about making a band sounding better. What is your life about? So you have to do it. You have to start it right now. And I will always remember that I was recording a band in 2015 in my studio, Sao Paulo, and I remember the guy was an incredible singer. Amazing singer. His name is Bruno and he's an amazing singer, one of the best in Sao Paulo, Bruno Figaredo. And he just started to sing for a new band. And I remember that one of his friends wasn't really happy that he was playing with that dance. And in the first day of the recording he was crying and he was totally unstable for the recording and we had to record it.

(01:38:27):

And I was like, man, no way. This guy's going to record today because he's actually because his friend, it was his cousin actually. He was the singer for John Wayne who just died in the middle of the pandemic because of Corona. It was so tragic. It was horrible. And I remember that I was in the studio with him and he was crying. I was like, oh, because my cousin, because he is not approving that I am here. And I was like, man, how am I going to make this guy sing today? Because we have a schedule, we have to finish the sing. And then I was like, and also he's going to sound horrible if he sings like this. So I asked everybody to leave the room and I was like, guys, can you give a moment with the guy? And I talked to Bruno.

(01:39:10):

I was like, man, listen. And I started to see a lot of things for him to make him comfortable and in 20 to 30 minutes he was cool. Again. It was like, okay, after I talked to him, he was motivated to do the thing and he recorded better than ever. So why am I talking all those things? It's because that's the kind of thing you don't learn in a school. Nobody's going to teach you that if you don't work with bands every day. There are all kinds of problems. Sometimes you record a guy who just had the worst fight of his life with his wife, some guy, and you have to make him perform and you'll learn all those things. Sometimes you are in the recording, you see like, man, things are not happening. This guy's not playing. He sucks today. Today it's horrible for him.

(01:40:01):

And then now you have to start talking to the guy, Hey man, what is happening with your life? Give me a tip or tell me what is going on. And then he says, ah. And sometimes you stop and talk to the guy for 40 minutes, 30 minutes, sometimes 10 minutes. And that's enough for him to start focusing again. Totally on the recording. And all those things are important as well. It's starting to deal with people, dealing with real people in the studio. That's the very best lesson. You'll get the very best knowledge out of it, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:40:34):

And you can only learn how to do it by doing it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:36):

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:40:37):

Yeah. You can't learn that on the internet.

Speaker 3 (01:40:40):

No, it's a feeling. And also it's crazy because I learned that it's not only about being nice, because sometimes you feel that there are musicians that they need to be pushed.

Speaker 2 (01:40:54):

They won't respect you if you're too nice.

Speaker 3 (01:40:57):

Yeah, I had to be rude

Speaker 2 (01:40:59):

As well.

Speaker 3 (01:40:59):

I had to be like, Hey man, listen. And I had to talk really hard to the guy. And then things started to happen because you will, along this career, we will deal with all kinds of personalities, different personalities, and there are people that they can't focus, for example, unless you have someone really mad in front of him saying to him like, you have to do it now. Please pay attention. And some other people, if you do that, you've destroyed them for a week and they'll never record anything else in their lives if you don't leave. How can I say? If you don't have this contact with people every day in the studio, you'll never learn those things.

Speaker 2 (01:41:42):

Yeah. I really actually think that if you're good with people, you'll get further than if you're super amazing and bad with people. So you can be 90% awesome at the music if you're great with people, as opposed to a hundred percent awesome with music, but 70% good with people, you won't go as far. Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 3 (01:42:07):

It's absolutely true, man.

Speaker 2 (01:42:09):

People skills is the number one determining factor in how well they're going to do in studio life, assuming that they know how to do the audio part.

Speaker 3 (01:42:19):

There is one thing that I used to say, the very best thing you have in your life, it's like finding and dealing with people and the very worst thing you have in your life, it's going to be dealing and having contact with people because someday you find a person that makes your day amazing, and someday you find another person who makes your day awful. But still, you have to learn to deal with them.

Speaker 2 (01:42:45):

Absolutely. It's the most important thing. Ade, I think this is a good place to end the episode. I want to thank you for taking the time to hang out. It's been a pleasure talking to you,

Speaker 3 (01:42:57):

Man. I have no words. I'm super happy for being here. I would like to say thanks for your m thanks to you. Like I know how important it needs to be here. It's an honor being here and thank you very much, man. I just hope that people will like it and I just hope that I didn't make as many English mistakes. I think I did.

Speaker 2 (01:43:22):

You're fine. Your English is great actually.

Speaker 3 (01:43:25):

Thank you very much man. And again, thank you very much for the opportunity of being here. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):

Thank you. Alright then another URM podcast episode in the bag. Please remember to share our episodes with your friends as well as post some to your Facebook and Instagram or any social media you use. Please tag me at al Levi URM audio at URM Academy. And of course tag our guests as well. I mean, they really do appreciate it. In addition, do you have any questions for me about anything? Email them to [email protected]. That's EYAL at M dot aca, DEMY. And use the subject line answer me aal. Alright then. Till next time, happy mixing.

Speaker 1 (01:44:11):

You've been listening to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast. To ask us questions, make suggestions and interact, visit URM Academy and press the podcast link today.