SEAN O’KEEFE: Mixing Fall Out Boy, When to ‘Redo’ a Mix, Dangers of Over-Compression

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by tele Funken Electroacoustic Tele Funken. Electroacoustic has been following the tradition of excellence and innovation set forth by the original tele Funken GM BH of Germany that began over 100 years ago with one foot rooted in the rich history of the brand and the other in new microphone innovations for both stage and studio applications. Tele Funkin Electroacoustic is recognized as one of the industry leaders in top quality microphones. For more info, go to t-funk.com. And now your host, Eyal Levi.

Speaker 2 (00:40):

Hello everybody. This episode is brought to you by Ultimate Guitar Production, the most detailed in-depth course ever created about guitars. The course is taught by Andrew Wade, who you may know from one of his three appearances on nail the Mix or work with bands like a Day to remember The Ghost Inside Wage War or Neck Deep. And it covers everything and I mean everything. It's over a hundred videos that cover every single step of the guitar production process, setting up the guitar, choosing the right amp cabs, mics the right way to track guitars, editing, amping, mixing, and more. He puts it all together by dialing tones for indie, pop, rock, pop, punk, and metal. And there's actually way, way, way more than what I just told you, but I'm out of time. If you want to see all of it and get a sneak preview of the content, go to ultimate guitar production.com and prepare to have your mind blown. Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast. This is the Upteenth or 20th something or 30th something Mix Crit Monday. I really honestly don't know how many we've done, but it's a lot at this point.

Speaker 3 (01:52):

Four. You've done four?

Speaker 2 (01:53):

Four, yes. Okay. Four tea or something. Welcome back to co-host John Maciel. How are you doing, sir?

Speaker 3 (02:01):

Doing well, man. It's a nice, beautiful Saturday here in California, so I'm having a great day.

Speaker 2 (02:06):

It sure is. And what's awesome about this is that you're back and what that means is that everybody enjoyed having you as a co-host, which I figured they would, but I'm very, very stoked and so it's kind of weird to be like, well, congrats for not failing, but congrats for not failing.

Speaker 3 (02:27):

I just realized I didn't even, it's good to be back. I'm just like no one, because I saw the comments, I was like, no one seems to be hating this, so I think Eyal's going to have me come back and then I'm here and I'm totally, it totally went past me. I was like, oh shit. Eyal could have easily been like, Hmm. And the community could have been like, no, didn't really feel this, but it's really fun to have the opportunity to do this because I started by listening to Mixed Crip Monday and then also doing, what was it, the one-on-ones and my first one-on-one was with you. So to have everything come full circle.

Speaker 2 (03:02):

Full circle, yeah,

Speaker 3 (03:03):

It's incredible.

Speaker 2 (03:03):

Well, believe me, as much as we're friends, if I had gotten a bunch of negative feedback, we would've had to have a very uncomfortable phone call. Thankfully everybody loved it and I figured they would. I really did. I wasn't actually expecting people to dislike it. If I had a feeling people would dislike it, I would've just not even asked in the first place. But

Speaker 3 (03:24):

There would've been pitchfork gifts all over the comments thread and that would've been like the end of it.

Speaker 2 (03:30):

Yeah, I would've had malt off cocktails coming through my window, but there were none and here we are. So this is the show where we crit your mixes, meaning your the URM community. We grab these at random from the Octagon, which is our private Facebook group for Mix Crits. We have several Facebook groups that are exclusive to the URM community and we take their upkeep and care very, very seriously and we don't want our main group getting overwhelmed with mixed crits and self-promotion. So we have a group that's just four mixed crits and we pull them out of that and this month we're going to be creating something I'm very, very proud of. We got Fallout Boy on Nail the Mix mixed by Sean O'Keefe with song called Lake Effect Kid, and these are student submitted mixes of Lake Effect kid, and let me just say I love Fallout boy. I know everybody thinks that I'm this metal dude or serious orchestral guy, but I am a a softie. I'm a softie for great melodies. My parents showed me the Beatles when I was young and just great melodies to me are just, are life and the thing that Fallout Boy has always had are just great, great melodies, and I'm not even a huge pop punk fan. I don't care their melodies, they just get me. So I'm really, really stoked

Speaker 3 (05:20):

To

Speaker 2 (05:20):

Have them on.

Speaker 3 (05:21):

When it was announced, that was the first thing that went into my head was the melodies. That it's one of the few bands that everybody, even like somebody's mom would know at least one follow up Boy song without knowing it, just because the melodies are so memorable that everyone knows one song from Follow Boy at least.

Speaker 2 (05:39):

Yeah, and it's one of those bands where even if you don't know that you know them, I'm sure that if you saw them live, say you didn't know that you knew them and you're like, I don't know this band, and you go see them live, you get dragged there and I guarantee you it would be like, oh, I know that song. Oh, I know that song. Oh, I know that song. When I saw Korn and I've been a Corn fan, but a lot of old school corn fans, there was a certain point where I stopped buying the records. I also just stopped buying records in general, but I saw them live in 2013. I was like, okay, that song's awesome.

Speaker 4 (06:15):

Oh,

Speaker 2 (06:15):

I know that song. Oh, that song was a hit, that song was a hit. Oh, know that song? Know that song, know that song. Know that song. Jesus, this band is amazing. I think it would be like one of those

Speaker 3 (06:25):

Situations, this is why they're playing this show at this venue. I guess these songs are so good. Who would've thought

Speaker 2 (06:32):

This is why this band is legendary? What a surprise. Oh, that's awesome. I think it would be that sort of thing. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (06:39):

For sure.

Speaker 2 (06:39):

Alright, so let's get into it. We're going to play about a minute of each mix so that you don't have to listen to this song six times just to get through this episode. So we'll play about a minute and then come back and give our thoughts. So first up is subscriber Braxton, and this is his mix of Lake effect kid by follow up Boy.

(08:03):

All right. That was Lake Effect Kid mixed by Mr. Braxton. And here's what I thought, good power. Nothing's really bugging me in terms of being harsh. I'll say that the balances are a bit off. The bass guitar is kind of loud and I feel like in the pre-chorus, the wrong vocal harmony is too loud, and so it's kind of overemphasizing the wrong notes in the intro. It sounds a little bit like the wrong elements are driving just a bit too much. I think it's a piano, not a clean guitar, but I mean I think that's just an artistic decision. It's not so loud that I think it's wrong. I just think that artistically that should be a little bit more middle ground instead of So foreground, the chorus sounds really good. Verse vocals are a bit buried, but overall this is very good. I mean, great work Braxton, just watch the bass and your artistic choice of balances, but honestly, this is one of the better submissions we've ever had on mixed Crip Monday. So everything I just said, I want it to be understood that it's under the guise of this being a really good mix already. What do you think?

Speaker 3 (09:32):

I found a lot of things in this mix I didn't really care for personally. Awesome. Tell me how wrong I am. Well, difference of opinion. Well, okay, so first off, the first thing I noticed on this mix was the kick and the snare just sounded weird to me. The punch from those two did not gel for me in terms of how the vibe and the vision of where he was going with the mix, that kick in the snare just didn't fit that sound. Then the symbols had a lot of stick attack, but there was no symbol articulation. I just heard the stick hitting the symbol, but I didn't hear, I don't know how to explain it, but it's like when symbols get super wasy and a mix, you can tell that there's too much fiz in them almost, and you can't really hear the harmonic note content of the symbols.

(10:18):

And I know these are great symbols. I've gone through the multitrack, so I don't feel like there's a lot of work to be done on those. The balance thing did stick out to me. Also, I thought the guitars were way louder than the vocals and then in the chorus it was especially apparent because the background vocals were oddly layered beneath, and to me it's like these little things that could have made the mix so much better were missing. And then the mids in about one to three K area were kind of pokey to me, but that's what stuck out to me. I don't know what these other mixes are going to have until, but I definitely think he has the right idea. He just got to go through, rebalance some things and maybe change out the kick and snares down or req them just so things kind of gel a little bit more in the mix and then he'll be in the right space.

Speaker 2 (11:03):

Okay, fair enough. I do think that the main, for me, the main thing, and I think we both touched on this, for me, the main thing was the vocals being balanced a little weird. I don't think that overall they were balanced weird compared to the music necessarily, except in the verse there the vocals were definitely buried. But I think more just to me it was the internal balance of the vocals. And I get it that this is very difficult on this song because there are a ton of vocals and so when you have a ton of vocals like this, obviously there's much more of a chance to get the vocal mix, even if you get the vocal sounding good, even there's a lot more of a chance for you to emphasize the wrong thing. So you had to be really, really careful. And let me just point out that in Sean O'Keefe's mix, especially in the chorus, it is very, very clear which vocal is the lead vocal and the harmonies are kind of like they're very background. It's not like a queen song or something where it's just like Harmony Central or something and there are a ton of harmonies. Someone was comparing them to a Boston song. There is no shortage of harmony, but it's very expertly mixed on the real mix to where you're never wondering what's supposed to be in the lead.

Speaker 3 (12:39):

Yeah, I feel like, I think Braxton's been around for a minute. I think this was one of those, it was the first pass and then put it in the octagon. I think he probably will pick up on this stuff on his own. It's these little nuances that it's really not that once you step away from mix, you're like, oh, those vocals need to get rebalanced a little bit so that it all sits in the right place. Either way though,

Speaker 2 (13:03):

I don't think that this is worthy of a redo. I think this is worthy of a retweak. What do you think?

Speaker 3 (13:10):

Oh man, I can't get over the kick in the snaring, the symbols personally. So I would say on those I would think just rebalance and then maybe the EQ decisions would change a little bit. That

Speaker 2 (13:22):

To me is a retweak. And even if it's

Speaker 3 (13:24):

Okay,

Speaker 2 (13:26):

Say just that he was using samples or something, even if it was resampling, to me, that's a retweak. Let's just get our terms right. For me, a redo means you start from scratch. When I tell someone redo, I mean everything. Take what you have and hit the lead on that shit and start all over. So when I say retweak, it means, yeah, you could change out the kick, change out the snare, redo some elements like retweak. When I say retweak, I don't mean drop two DB at 5K on something and you're done. I mean, yeah, put some time in

Speaker 3 (14:05):

Session, open it back up. Reimport the full nine.

Speaker 2 (14:09):

Yeah, for me, so I don't think this is a redo. I think this is just to keep working on it. How about that?

Speaker 3 (14:14):

Yeah, I definitely agree.

Speaker 2 (14:15):

Alright, let's move on. Alright, this is by Chase, Herman, chase Herman's mix of lake effect kid by follow-up boy, here it goes.

(15:22):

All right. That was by subscriber Chase Herman. First thoughts, something is really, really weird in the left ear or speaker. So just this weird distortion. I'm hearing strange noises and there's also very strange left right balance. The vocals have a ton of harsh upper mid frequencies and they hurt. They actually hurt. I had to turn this down. The pre-course balance is way off those single no guitars. Okay, there's this single no guitar in there that I really don't think is intended to be very loud because it's not very loud on the final mix. I think it's just another layer, but those single no guitars in this mix are louder than the vocals. How is that possible? This is Fallout boy, those vocals are, you're talking about one of the best vocalists in rock of the past 20 years. What are you doing? The vocals overall too are just kind of painful in this one. The drums sound like they've got a blanket on them, and I really do think that this guy is a guitarist who loves clean guitars because the clean guitars are about as loud as pop vocals would be in a pop mix. I know this is quite a redo, but definitely chill the fuck out on the guitars. Watch your left right balance, watch the harshness, watch the distortion. What do you think

Speaker 3 (16:56):

I'm going to say off the bat for me this was a redo. There's just so many things not working that I think the fundamentals are being lost.

Speaker 2 (17:03):

Okay, I agree. I agree. Redo.

Speaker 3 (17:05):

Yeah, the vocals fighting. I could hear the vocals were fighting and that mid range thing that you heard too, I was just like, holy crap, this is what's happening. The guitars are so dark and warm sounding, but they're taking up the entire mix and there's like, I don't know if you heard some weird pumping going on during the whole thing, but there was just some weird movement. I think Chase just needs to start over and really spend the time to really, really focus on gain staging and balancing properly so that once he starts reaching for the eq, it's a matter of what's getting in the way of the big picture. And let's make room for all these things because right now it just seems like there's too many things trying to take the spotlight and the vocals have the spotlight. No, who's the most important person in the song right now? It's the vocalist. Patrick is an amazing singer and everything is easy. The production's so well done that it's like you can tell everything can sit where it needs to sit. So yeah, chase, for me it's go back, spend time on balancing and I think it'll come together a little bit nicer if you just spend a little bit more time on that stuff. Lemme say

Speaker 2 (18:14):

One thing about redos. I said this last time, but I think it bears saying again, when we say redo, we're not talking shit. It's not like go kill yourself or anything or quit mixing or it's not a bad thing. All great mixers have redone a mix at some point. I know lots of mixers who you listen to who have been on Nail the Mix, who do redos all the time, and you don't see them do the redo on nail mix obviously because we're going through a mix that they already completed. They already know how to mix the song, but I know lots of people who will mix a song, get it to 75%, 80% there and just start over because something, it just wasn't right. And then they redo it and it works. So please don't take it the wrong way. Redoing mixes is a normal part of mixing. And with that, let's move on to Lake Effect Kid Mix by Mr. Dalton's or Nile

(20:23):

And back. That was Lake Effect kid mixed by Dalton Zer. And first off, let me just say Dalton, shout out to Dalton. Dalton is a veteran UR er at this point, so we love you. Thank you for being here and please don't hate me for what I'm about to say, but Dalton, this sounds like a metal mix. I would redo it just on those grounds that it sounds like you're trying to do a metal mix. I don't know if you were or not, but it's what it sounds like to me. I dig that it's powerful, but again, dude, this is not a metal song. If we were talking about what I'm actually hearing, then let's talk about some spiky painful frequencies on the snare vocals and symbols and God damn, that kick is so loud. It's metal loud. And this is not a metal song, this is not a metal song. This is not a metal song and DSRs are your friend. Use them on a positive note. I really, really like how you treated the Overdriven rhythm guitars. Very, very good to me. They sound just right. What do you think?

Speaker 3 (21:34):

It's funny. You said, holy cow on the kick I wrote down Holy snare Batman. That snare just was pounding me in the face. I was like, holy crap. I a hundred percent agree with the kick in the scenario I call it that beater sound of the kick is just so it's beating me every time the kick happens. It's not full and lush like the original track and a band, this type of band would have the snare. It was missing some of the depth in the body that you also get from this type of band typically. But it was just so loud. Also it was louder than the vocal and that's a big no-no. So rebalancing that, the drums in general, I wasn't really feeling the balance of them, but the guitars, yeah, I liked Dalton's guitars and then yeah,

Speaker 2 (22:25):

They

Speaker 3 (22:26):

Were good. They

Speaker 2 (22:26):

Were good. He did a good job with those.

Speaker 3 (22:28):

So the bass was okay. There was one thing that bothered me is when the second chord comes in on the chorus, that bass kind of disappears from the progression. And I think it's something to do with his EQ moves and then it comes back for the third chord progression. So that's something you got to be really cautious of when you're making decisions with the bass is the clarity for the low end extension of the chord progression has to remain intact throughout the whole progression. And I'm pretty sure that that probably happens throughout the song. If I caught it during the chorus that definitely if we were little listen longer, I'm pretty sure there would be other spots where that would happen. So that's definitely, I think more so any EQ decision because it was pretty consistent. It didn't really bother me. It's that's one thing that stuck out. I was like, well, where'd the chord go? But yeah, that's what I got on this one. Just go back and make some pop punk rock drums, not metal drums.

Speaker 2 (23:19):

And I realized that it's easy I think to go over metal when you're dealing with nail the mix tracks because I don't want to pigeonhole us, but we do pretty heavy shit on nail the mix and that's the world that we come 'em and we love it and we will always do really heavy music. But when I say that our goal is to cover everything in the Hard Rock umbrella, I am being totally serious. And that's why we don't just do metal. That's why we do have bands like Follow-Up or the story so far on. It's because we want to cover everything that would fall under that hard rock umbrella. And you have to approach different types of heavy music in different ways. I mean, I feel like maybe it's super obvious to say this, but if you learn how to mix and the way you learn how to mix is to mix metal songs and you do certain things to make metal songs sound balanced and huge and powerful, those are not the same types of things that you would do on a pop punk song.

(24:37):

And so what I recommend, and Dalton, I know that you have a wide variety of musical tastes. I know you're not just a metal guy. I would recommend spending some time doing some what I call active listening in some other genres. And what I mean by active listening, my definition of it is that when you listen to it, you write down, you actually write down what you're hearing and you do a little bit of analysis and it's not like harmonic analysis, but it's an analysis of the elements and how you think they interact with each other. But the point is that it's not technical, so you're not going to be like, oh, well the kicks are peaking at eight k. Clearly no, it's more like the kicks. The low end of the kick is what's driving this, but it's more fuddy in nature. I don't hear it poking through the way I would in a metal song, but it really adds just more of an anchor or something.

(25:33):

It's more just descriptive words just to help you think about these abstract ish kind of things in a non-technical way. I just want you to start doing that with non-metal so that when you start hearing these songs come at you and nail the mix, you kind of have a point of reference to approach them from, because it's easy for us to be like, this is not a metal song. Don't mix it like a metal song, but it's a little bit more difficult if most of what you're mixing is metal to then actually not mix it like a metal song. And I think it comes down to not just your musical tastes, but your musical vocabulary and you can develop that vocabulary by doing some active listening and really trying to understand what it is that you're hearing and the relationships between how different things work together.

Speaker 3 (26:25):

I want to piggyback on this a little bit. It's been really interesting the last couple of months it's been going from a heavy genre band to rock or pop punk, and it's been really interesting to hear a lot of these mixes and how people don't take a step back and understand the band in front of 'em and how you're saying, I don't feel like many people take the time to do active listening and really understand the genre that they're about to mix and what sounds are appropriate in terms of feel and where are things placed. The fundamentals will always be there, but definitely listening actively to what these different genres do, and just knowing where that feels at is so crucial and it's been really, really fun for me personally to see us go from arc spire to slaves or godsmack and then back to aborted and seeing the people who catch onto these nuances and the genres and you're like, okay, light bulbs are starting to go off in these people's heads to where they see these things going. And I don't know if they're actively listening or they're just more in tune with listening to the song and what it's saying and where it's supposed to go, but it's definitely, it really helps when you have that perspective

Speaker 2 (27:39):

Just for non nail the mix subscribers, just to give you an idea of what we're talking about, starting with last August, we had converge on with Kurt Ballou and then Lamb of God with Machine, and then Dan Gavin dance with Chris Crume, followed by Arks Byer with Dave Atero, followed by Godsmack and Slaves with Eric Ron, followed by Aborted with Kle, followed by the story so far with Sam Pura, followed by Amarant and Discarnate with Jacob Hansen, followed by Follow-Up Boy with Sean O'Keefe. So every single month, the genres changing

(28:16):

And yeah, those are all heavy bands, but that's about where the similarities stop. I mean, even Aborted and Spire are radically different. Oh yeah. Hey everybody, if you're enjoying this podcast, then you should know that it's brought to you by URM Academy, URM Academy's mission is to create the next generation of audio professionals by giving them the inspiration information to hone their craft and build a career doing what they love. You've probably heard me talk about Nail the Mix before, and if you remember, you already know how amazing it is at the beginning of the month. Now the mix members get the raw multitracks to a new song by artists like Lama, God oth Shuga, bring Me The Horizon Gaira asking Alexandria Machine Head and Papa Roach among many, many others. Then at the end of the month, the producer who mixed it comes on and does a live streaming walkthrough of exactly how they mix the song of the album and takes your questions live on the air.

(29:18):

You'll also get access to Mix Lab, our collection of dozens of bite-sized mixing tutorials that cover all the basics and Portfolio Builder, which is a library of pro quality multi-tracks cleared for use of your portfolio. So your career will never again be held back by the quality of your source material. And for those who really, really want to step up their game, we have another membership tier called URM Enhanced, which includes everything I already told you about, and access to our massive library of fast tracks, which are deep, super detailed courses on intermediate and advanced topics like gain, staging, mastering loan and so forth. It's over 50 hours of content in, man, let me tell you. This stuff is just insanely detailed. Enhanced members also get access to one-on-one office hours sessions with us and Mix Rescue, which is where we open up one of your mixes on a live video stream, fix it up and talk you through exactly what we're doing at every step. If any of that sounds interesting to you, if you're ready to level up your mixing skills and your audio career, head over to URM academy slash enhanced to find out more. Let's move on. I don't know how to pronounce your name, man. I love you, but I'm going to fuck this up. Correct us in the group if we got it wrong, but here is Lake Effect kid mixed by stick and Boss.

Speaker 4 (30:57):

When I'm in heaven and I get you'll be, the heat is on gates up in the shade.

Speaker 2 (31:40):

Alright, that was Lake Effect kid mixed by stick and Boss. And from First, listen, this is pretty pleasant. Until the vocals come in, they are over compressed. And what I'm wondering is if the dude watched the Jacob Hansen nail the mix where he talked about using ungodly amounts of compression on vocals and then just went in for it, fall in. And I'm just going to say if so remember what works for one person on one mix is not what will necessarily work for you. And what you need to keep in mind when you're watching nail the mix or really any sort of masterclass or thing where you watch somebody great do their thing is you're watching the end cumulative result of multiple decades of work. So while you're seeing the technique being used, what you're not getting is the evolution that they had to get through to get to that point where they're using it and you're not hearing it the way they're hearing it.

(32:48):

So take what they give you under advisement and under understanding that it might not necessarily work for you because you don't have the same vision that they have. And so don't just blindly use these techniques. And what I mean by overly compressed is that I hear all kinds of mouth noises and undesirable stuff, just like weird vocal artifacts and just stuff that doesn't make sense to be hearing in this song. Otherwise, I think this one's pretty good. This snare might be a hair pointy, but overall I think the music's very good on this one. If this were a competition, it's the vocal compression which would disqualify it, in my opinion. What do you think?

Speaker 3 (33:38):

I feel like the entire mix was just overly compressed. The balance and the feel was pretty good. I could definitely get the essence of that, but because of all the compression going on, it worked against the mix. And to me, this is a huge, I hope people listening take this to account that going in for compression without really knowing if it suits your style, like you said, if it was for the mix pole, the vocal and the over compression would disqualify them. It's like you see these techniques and they're really cool to see, but definitely play with them to see if it works. But if it's not working with your style, don't try to make it work. Really pay attention to the movement in the song. And I felt like in the chorus especially, the compression got so heavy that it just became this no groove, no dancing groove for that chorus. And this song has a very movie chorus. I want to dance to this chorus because it just bounces and that was gone on this one. So if you're over compressing or if you're experimenting with it, definitely take a minute and kind of roll back on it and really listen to are the instruments moving and vibing with one another with that compression. And the tambourine was kind of loud for me too. Yeah, it was. And the piano in the intro too. But other than that, I think on this one, the compression just killed it.

Speaker 2 (35:01):

I think a few of these guys had their piano too loud on the intro.

Speaker 3 (35:05):

Yeah, pianos are tough. There's so many layers to this song, but when I pulled it up in my pro tool session and I listened to it, I was like, okay, there's a lot of stuff going on, but everything has its role. And I was like, okay, this would go here, that would go there. And the pianos, it's just like, because it's such a weird instrument based on all the harmonic content it has. So I feel like a lot of people get nervous and they're just like, well, I'm just going to put it up over here. And it's like you can use it more as a percussive, atmospheric type of element. That's what it sounds like in the original mix and it just, yeah, pianos can be scary. I get it.

Speaker 2 (35:44):

This is something that I really, really like about follow-up. Boy, this is another one of the reasons that I just think this band's great is they do what they want. They use weird arrangements, they go pop if they want to go pop, they go rock. If they want to go rock, they do whatever they want and they're very, very creative and they have all kinds of interesting instrumentation. And I'm not like piano is the weirdest thing in the world to use, but it's actually not the most common thing to use. And it is tough because it's a full frequency instrument then like you said, has a bunch of harmonic content.

(36:28):

It sounds when you hear a piano like you would want to turn it up, but I mean just listen to the original mix. It's not very loud. And I'm not saying you should try to copy the original mix, but anytime you're mixing a song that you get from a band, if you listen to any of the guys who come on nail the mix or the podcast, they pretty much all like to get a demo mix or a rough from the band to kind of get an idea for what the band wanted so that they're not taking it to a whole different world and they like to have some direction and you have the best direction in the world with this. You have the final mix,

Speaker 4 (37:07):

The one

Speaker 2 (37:07):

That actually came out and was approved and sounds as good as the band wanted it to sound probably. So I say I'm guessing. So why not take the final mix as a guide at least for where different elements are supposed to lie, at least balance wise. Moving on, this is by subscriber Zach Fisk.

(38:32):

All right, that was Zach Fisk's mix of lake effect kid and no power in the drums, very harsh in the guitars. The drums are very pointy and small and I would even check if there's some phase problems on those drums. They just sound very small and very little low end. And when that happens, I start to wonder if there's a phase cancellation problem. I can hear the bass, but I can't hear it. And I'm also hearing that single note lead guitar way too loud again. And look, just because the layer is in there doesn't mean it has to be blaring loud. Some layers are meant to be textures not leads. The verse is exactly what I mean by not feeling the base. By the way. I know it's there and I actually kind of like the nastiness of it, but I just don't feel any bottom at all. And on the note of no real bottom in the base, once again, no real sub on the kick either. And so it's making me wonder about how Zach is hearing things like if he's in a base buildup part of his room where he feels like he needs to under compensate or what, but something is up

Speaker 3 (39:56):

On this one. It's weird because that bass, the note is kind of there sometimes, but there's no low end to the bass sound. It's a really weird bass thing that's going on. And then because that gel of the bass wasn't there, you can hear the guitarist, he just went hard on the mid range in that little really fatiguing one to three K area on the guitarist. So is he on headphones? I really want to know what Zach's listening on. There's just so many things that are going on very oddly in his EQ decisions that it could be headphones, it could be like you said, in a room that has a weird null, but then a buildup in a certain range. So he might think that the low end is killing it, but it's really not. And another thing I noticed was the symbols we're kind of crazy on this one, and I think that's the phase that you were talking about.

(40:47):

It could be that they were phasing in and out, so sometimes it was like one side, the left side would be abundant and then go away or be balanced, I guess considering the mix. And then the right side would pop out and then go in. And I'm curious to know where the phase issue would've happened if he's introducing samples or what's going on. This one, I forget, people were adding samples. I read the notes on this one and he didn't use, I don't think he used samples. If he did, they were very minimal possibly. I don't know. But I can't get over the phase and all this other stuff going on on this one. I would say definitely this one's a redo for me.

Speaker 2 (41:23):

Oh, absolutely. A redo. A redo. And have you done a one-on-one with this guy?

Speaker 3 (41:29):

No, I was actually thinking about hitting him up after this podcast.

Speaker 2 (41:32):

So I'm going to say Zach, because we love you and I actually don't know if you're Unenhanced members. So

Speaker 3 (41:40):

He went to the summit.

Speaker 2 (41:41):

He did go to the summit,

Speaker 3 (41:43):

Yeah, I think, yeah, he's team, so that's why I'm going to hit him up.

Speaker 2 (41:47):

I'm guessing he's probably an enhanced if he's not. Then Zach, we're going to give you a complimentary month of your arm enhanced so that you can get a one-on-one with Sean and get the help you need because we'd like to get to the bottom of it. If the problem is that you're listening situation is messed up, then that can change things overnight. And if that's not the problem, well then there's still a bunch of things that we can probably help you fix right away. At least help you just approach this differently. So get in touch. Last mix for the day. This is by Mr. Matts Ost

Speaker 4 (42:50):

Heaven.

Speaker 2 (43:30):

All right. That was lake effect kid mixed by Mr. Matt's ost. And let me just say that the drum room is kind of overwhelming it, I get it. It should be making the drum sound a bit nastier, have more energy, more explosive, more cohesive, but it shouldn't be so loud that it's making everything a mess. And that's the danger of when you have drum rooms that are very compressed and that you use for that purpose. You could overdo it and things can become a mess and you got to des those vocals. Boy, are they harsh again, and I've said this a few times today, that single note lead is way too loud. Also while I'm at it, the Tom Stone sounds smooth at all to just kind of poke out, kind of weird. And speaking of weird things, I hear all kinds of weird pumping in the chorus.

(44:28):

The chorus is happening and the volume of everything just kind of changes partway through. It is just shifting. And the second verse, vocals are louder than the chorus vocals. Basically what I'm getting at is this mixes a bit of a mess and I'm willing to bet that a big part of it is overzealous mastering chain. An overzealous mastering chain just going hog, wild boy. And you got to watch those. Toms, I know I already said it once, but that C on city, which really is an S sound, it's just like, holy fuck man, well use that deser. Honestly, I think that this is a redo. I just think that you went too hard on way too many things, but then left a bunch of things alone. It sounds like the Toms are almost unmixed. Not saying they are unmixed, but they sound unmixed. And then it sounds like the vocals aren't really even being des, but then the amount of compression on things, it's just like, woo boy. So I think that there's too much going on where there doesn't need to be and too little going on where there should be. So I would say redo this one. What do you think?

Speaker 3 (45:52):

I definitely agree with the redo. For me, I definitely feel like there was a mastering chain, and that might've been the crutch on this one. It sounds like a mix that had, maybe he did have a vision. I'm just like, there's too many things in this mix where I just don't feel like there was any clear idea of where he wanted to go, and he might've just thrown a chain that he's comfortable with on it. The kick just has no fullness at all during the whole mix. And when the chorus comes in, it just sounds like a huge cardboard box kick is all of a sudden in my face and just wanting to punch me for no reason. And then the room reverb or just room sound. There's a weird 200 hertz area of it that just once I heard it, I could not unhear that every time the snare hit, it was like that sound was there. And I'm like, what is going on with this drum mix in general? Yeah, for me it's, there's so much about it that I'm not feeling. I would just say, redo, rebalance, get a feel for where to take it. And yeah, just redo. I hate to say I think it's been two redos. I feel bad, but I shouldn't because it's like I'm helping him. But it's like if you don't have a clear direction, all these instruments start fighting and it's like what is happening right now?

Speaker 2 (47:09):

Yeah, I do know. Look, like I said before, I don't think that when we say redo that it's a bad thing. I think that it's a necessary thing and everybody's here to learn. So man, even if you're hired to do a mix, so you end up redoing them sometimes it's okay, just redo this one

(47:35):

And something else. Shameless plug, those of you that are not in URM enhanced you should be because you get one-on-ones with Sean where we can talk you through this stuff and help you. There's only so much you can get from comments in a group or a chat room or from watching videos. And we think that we have the best education in audio online period. And I know that we actually have better education than most in-person schools, if not all of 'em. However, there's only so far that it will go without getting some personalized mentorship from somebody. And we offer that you should get in enhanced. You can go to nail the mix.com/upgrade, sign up for a one-on-one and get some help. Really, it goes so far to have somebody tell you what's wrong with your mix. But not just that how you can fix it and to help you diagnose what's actually wrong with your situation.

(48:36):

It could be so many things. It could be that you're trying to do things that are inappropriate for the genre. It could be that you're hearing things wrong. It could be that you don't understand a very crucial concept like gain staging, but you think you do. I don't know, there could be so many different things. It's good to have someone that knows what they're doing help you. And if you were in a different era where there were lots of studios out there, you could go get an internship and get a mentor, and you can still do that, but there are far less opportunities for it in the world. And this is what we offer that can come close to that. Not all of you're going to be able to get into a big studio with an amazing producer who will help you with what sucks to suck less. So nail the mix.com/upgrade. Any closing thoughts, John?

Speaker 3 (49:33):

If anyone listening has any questions about one-on-ones, you can reach out to me on Facebook and I will answer any questions. Or you can tag me in a post in the private producers club. And I am more than happy to answer any of your questions. Your one-on-ones belong to you. And what Eyal has trusted me with doing is just making sure that I figure out what's going on for you and we break down your method and make it a way where your vision for your way of mixing makes sense. And you can only do that when you do have personalized help. So any questions, feel free to reach out to me.

Speaker 2 (50:11):

Let me say one more thing about this. A lot of people hit me up on the side asking for me to give them a one-on-one or something like that. And what you need to understand is that I trained John to do this, and I did not let him do this until I knew that he was going to do an incredible job at it. John's not just randomly doing one-on-ones for URM, he knows exactly what he's doing. And if you want some proof of that, you should just go in our group and look at all the posts from people saying how their mixes were turned around. So do it to it,

Speaker 3 (50:51):

Do it lies,

Speaker 2 (50:53):

And we will see you guys next time.

Speaker 1 (50:57):

This episode of the Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast has been brought to you by tele Funken, electro acoustic tele fun. Electroacoustic has been following the tradition of excellence and innovation set forth by the original tele Funken GM VH of Germany that began over 100 years ago with one foot rooted in the rich history of the brand and the other in new microphone innovations for both stage and studio applications. Tele Funkin Electroacoustic is recognized as one of the industry leaders in top quality microphones. For more info, go to t funk.com. If you like the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, make sure you leave us a review, subscribe and send us a message if you want to get in touch.