MATT BROWN: Drum Tuning by Ear, Controlling Overtones, and Getting Pro Sounds at the Source

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by the 2017 URM Summit, a once in a lifetime chance to spend four days with the next generation of audio professionals and special guests, including Andrew Wade, Kane Churko, Billy Decker, fluff, Brian Hood, and many more. The inspiration, ideas and friendship you'll get here are the things that you'll look back on as inflection points in your life. Learn [email protected]. The URM podcast is also brought to you by heirloom microphones. Heirloom microphones are high-end condenser microphones with something that has never been seen in the microphone industry, a triangular membrane with our patented membranes and our tailored phase linear electronics. Your recording and live experience will never be the same heirloom. Our microphones will help you discover clarity. Go to E-H-R-L-U-N-D SE for more info. And now your hosts, Joey Sturgis, Joel Wanasek, and Eyal Levi. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to

Speaker 2 (01:08):

A great episode of Tips and Tricks with us today. We have special guest Matt Brown. How are

Speaker 3 (01:13):

You doing, Matt? I'm good. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (01:15):

You guys welcome

Speaker 3 (01:15):

Back.

Speaker 2 (01:16):

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16):

Oh, thanks. Thanks. We missed you. You were so great last time.

Speaker 2 (01:19):

Yeah, we just had to have you come back.

Speaker 3 (01:21):

Well, thanks. It was a very far drive and I'm glad you guys wanted me back. I love the trip.

Speaker 2 (01:27):

Good and glad to hear it. So let's dive right in. Let's talk about some drum stuff. Let's talk about tuning. So what is in your opinion, the first step someone has to do in order to start learning how to tune drums?

Speaker 3 (01:43):

Oh, develop their ear to be able to hear a pitch. So before you tune a drum, learn how to tune a guitar.

Speaker 2 (01:52):

Why is that?

Speaker 3 (01:53):

Well, and not tune a guitar by looking at a dial or some sort of device that shows you where the tune is, but learn by tuning by ear. So tune a guitar with the dial and then strum that string and then tune another guitar by only ear. Because if you don't develop your ear, you're never going to know whether something is in tune on a drummer out, because in order to get a drum in tune, you have to get the individual lug area by the head. Just by the lugs has to be in tune with itself around the drum. So if you can't tune a guitar by ear, you're never going to know how a drum actually sounds.

Speaker 2 (02:35):

Okay. So first step is learn how to tune. Just learn how to hear pitches. And so someone might say, well, I just got a drum dial, so I'll just put it to, I'll just use my drum dial.

Speaker 3 (02:47):

That's me. That's great. Drum dials are something that exists and I'm not a fan of them.

Speaker 2 (02:53):

Yeah, I know. That's why I always said that. I want to hear you trash it.

Speaker 3 (02:57):

The idea of the drum dial in a perfect world where there are no variables and physics only applies is a great idea because it measures surface tension is basically how the drum dial works. But what it doesn't take into account is one, are your bearing edges straight and true? Two are the consistencies in the head Is any head made so consistent that there's not a thicker or thinner area in the head itself. And if any of those two variables right there are not accurate, then your drum dial is only going to get you close. It's never going to get you to the exact point you need to be. Not to mention there's also the physics of the room itself that the drum is in, and you could tune to a certain note using the drum dial off the tension. But what if your room has a resonance that is not that area or that area to where it actually cancels that note that you're trying to tune out or boosts it so loud that it jumps above the rest of the kit. So that's why I think using your ear is the best way to go about it because you can hear immediately where the drum wants to be and also what the room sounds like and all of those variables that a drum dial can't do.

Speaker 2 (04:22):

Alright, so then when you say you already know how to hear a pitch and how do you go about deciding on the pitch for a drum itself? To tune it to

Speaker 3 (04:32):

Every drum wants to resonate at a certain place by itself. Where it's fundamental is every drum is different and you have to find that you can do it by tapping on the drum if you want on the shell. That's one way, but I've found that easiest way to do it is to start with the bottom head. Start with it completely loose, preferably brand new so it's not seated and not used to being tuned to a certain tension. And to start tuning that up to a point to where you can hear the head actually come alive and you'll hear it. There's a breaking point where once you get it in tune with itself, okay, you'll hear a definite pitch, but then where that head wants to sit, it will come alive and it'll all of a sudden be twice as loud as the other pitches. And so I tuned to that first on the bottom head and then do the same thing to the top head.

(05:23):

And then I would go back to the bottom head and tune that up a little bit based off where the top head wants to sit. And the idea is to have a general tuning idea is that the resonant head will be tighter, a little bit tighter and higher pitch than the batter head. And why is that? It's just the way that the air cavity works with the particular drum drumhead interaction. If you tune it to the same pitch, you'll get what we like to affectionately call the meow sound. When they're too close together, you will have this meow type tone to the drum.

Speaker 2 (05:59):

Yeah, that's literally what it sounds like. It's like you hit it and then there's this tail. It's just like meow. Yeah, I hate it.

Speaker 3 (06:07):

And what that is, is that the heads are so close to each other that they're actually at certain points joining in and moving at the same time and amplifying that certain frequency too much for the drum to handle. So the idea of tuning the bottom head higher will eliminate that head interaction, but also will give you the standard sound which most people like, which is a slight dive to the pitch. So when you hit it, instead of going and resonating at one point, it'll give a nice little dive, more like a and kind of fall down just a hair. And that's what most people seems to like better anyway. What happens if you tune the bottom head lower than the top head? You'll have the opposite of that. It'll actually rise and pitch after you hit it. And that's where most jazz guys are tuning their drums is more in that area of where the bottom head is definitely a little bit lower than the batter head. And the batter head is higher so they can play on it, but the pitch also rises after they hit it. And most rock drummers don't like that.

Speaker 2 (07:17):

Okay, you find a pitch that makes the drum sing, then you get the heads in tune with each other, you bring the bottom head up a little bit. What happens if at that point you want to get more length out of the drum?

Speaker 3 (07:31):

If you want more length out of the drum, you have to make sure that it's purely based off of that relationship between top and bottom. And the size of the drum definitely determines what that interval's going to be. I've found that the bigger the drum, the wider the interval between the top and the bottom. So let's say you have a 10 inch tom, which is everybody's favorite. So easy to tune, usually that interval that works really well on that 10 inch Tom is a major second. Usually sometimes a minor second, but usually somewhere around that the notes are either a half step or a whole step apart. They're pretty close to each other on a 16 inch floor, Tom. However, I found that anywhere from a major third to perfect fourth is a better relationship between the top and bottom head. And that gives you the most length out of the drum.

(08:23):

The other thing is once you get these drums in tune without being on the stand because you're tuning on the ground or on your leg to make sure that you're only tuning one head at a time and you're only hearing the head that you're tuning, put the drum on the stand or put the drum on its legs and then fine tune at that point. Because any stand that you put a drum on is going to interact with how that drum is tuned. Any type of legs that you put on the drum and that coupling with the floor is going to interact with how the drums are tuned. So you have to tune to your situation. And whether that's on a stand or sitting on legs or whatever, you got to tune to those situations. You're not holding the drums up while you're hitting them. You're not holding them with your hand, you're putting them somewhere so you can hit them. So always fine tune once you get the tune the drum and tune on its own, put it on a stand or set it on its legs.

Speaker 2 (09:21):

Okay, now what are you just want to get more crack out of it? More attack.

Speaker 3 (09:25):

More attack is going to be a lower pitch on the batter side.

Speaker 2 (09:28):

Okay. The

Speaker 3 (09:29):

Higher you tune something, the rounder and more tone you get out of it. The lower you tune something, the more slap and less tone and less length. So you got to find that place that kind of fits the amount of attack that you want versus the amount of tone that you want

Speaker 2 (09:45):

As program material dependent.

Speaker 3 (09:48):

Yes.

Speaker 2 (09:49):

So now let's talk about some stuff that's really annoying. Like say with snare getting rid, there's the good ring and bad ring. There's the natural ring that every snare has that I don't know how to define it other than the good ring. But then there's also sometimes you get these weird overtones that are like, Ooh, ooh, right. That kind of stuff. And you always have told me that it's better to tune that stuff out and I agree completely. So how do you go about getting rid of the annoying overtones?

Speaker 3 (10:26):

Start with the bottom head on a snare drum. If you have a lot of buzz and over, well start with the bottom head because the buzz is going to come mostly from where the body of the drum is sitting. If it's coupling with a tom, you're going to get that buzz. As far as the overtones go, the bottom head still has to be in tune, just like the top head. So I always start with the bottom head, and if it's too tight, you're going to get more higher pitched overtones. So I generally tune the bottom head in kind of a medium high tension to where you can still push down and it'll move when you push down on the head, but it's not so loose that it doesn't have any type of tone whatsoever. So make sure that head is in tune. And then I'll take the two tension rods on each side of the snare wires and drop those down just a little bit to kind of eliminate any kind of overtones that head might kick out by itself.

(11:24):

But also to kind of soften up where the snares are actually vibrating up against the head, those immediate areas right there. And then go to the top head and make sure it's in tune with itself first of all. And then secondly, that it's not speaking weirdly for the type of shell it is. What do you mean by that? Well, every shell kind of has its own character resonances, depending on its wood shells, the thinner they are, the lower they want to sit and the lower they're going to be, but they're not going to be as loud the thicker they are, the more high pitch you're going to get out of 'em, and they're going to want to be louder and they will be louder. Brass drums have specific pitch that they kind of, it's more in the mid range ish type of a sound, which is why some people like 'em so much.

(12:14):

Those overtones can be useful. Steel has a higher overtone range. It's a little bit harder metal. My favorite is copper because it kind of sits perfectly in between wood and brass. And the overtones, it's pretty dry to begin with, which means there's not a lot of overtones generated on a copper drum as compared to a brass drum or a steel drum. Then tune to where if you want the ring to be gone tune to where the ring is the most diminished by itself without any muffling, and then start muffling. That's if you want a super dry drum. If you want the good ring, get the ring up to where the drum is the most alive and it's actually, you can hear the ring without muffling, it's like almost too loud. Then start dialing in the muffling. And a lot of these drums depend on how the player hits. There's some drummers that hit a snare drum and there's no overtones whatsoever, and the drum is wide open, and then you put another drummer on that same drum and you'll hear nothing but ring. And so you have to tune to your player. You have to listen to how the guy plays, and if it's yourself, then you know how you play because you're playing as you tune. But if it's somebody else, you need to listen to them play first without any kind of muffling going on on the drums whatsoever. Alright.

Speaker 2 (13:43):

Let's talk about muffling then, because some people think that muffling is cheating. Some people will just jump to muffling immediately if they don't like something, but there's a proper way and an improper way to use it. And you also do a few things with the way you space it and where you place it. Pretty interesting. So why don't we talk about muffling a little bit?

Speaker 3 (14:05):

Yeah. My concepts on muffling have changed over my life. As a drummer, I used to kind want to have kind of a debtor sounds when I was younger, so I used to kind of tape things up and went that route. And when I really started looking into how drums work, I went the other way and was like, yes, I don't want any muffling on any of my drums whatsoever. I will tune them until they get the right type of ring. And that's as far as I'll go. And now I'm at the point where with the kind of resurgence of the drier, more seventies type drum sounds and eighties type drum sounds that are making a resurgence in popular music of the standpoint of do what you want until it sounds the way you want to. But I always start with a wide open drum. I always start with no muffling whatsoever and see what the drum does first before I start muffling.

(15:07):

And then as far as what I do when muffle, it depends. Most of the time when I'm working in metal or hard rock, I will use a very small piece of moon gel. I'll take a full-sized piece of moon gel and I'll cut it up into eight pieces, and then I will then place those little tiny pieces about an inch inside of the head. And I'll start with one. If that doesn't get the sound, the overtones or the length down to the way I want it, I'll put a second one directly across the head from where the first one was. And

Speaker 2 (15:42):

Why is that? Why there? Because

Speaker 3 (15:44):

You have to think about that is developed from the way that the head actually works, the physics behind what happens when a head is hit, and it's a circle. So if you think about a drop hitting some water and that drop then becomes bigger, and that wake doesn't, the wake goes out in an even circle, it doesn't leave and then become a different shape or an oval or anything else. Once that drop hits the water, it'll stay a circle until something else bounces into it. And even at that point, that circle will still keep going while the new shape is developing from something hitting that wave. The same thing happens with the drum head in slow motion. When you hit that drum head, a circle flies out from the place that you hit the drum in a perfect circle out towards the edge. So my idea by muffling is symmetrically as you're basically allowing that head to interact properly with that circle, if you muffle heavily on one side, I found that the way that the muffling works with the head, it actually makes that part of the head feel and act thicker. So it'll actually move at a different speed than the rest of the un muffled head. I will approach it from the idea of making it as symmetrically perfect as possible so that way the head will keep acting as if it's the same thickness all the way around, as opposed to it's thicker on one side. So it's going to act and move a little bit differently and slower than the un muffled side, which is thinner on the other side.

Speaker 2 (17:24):

That's a great answer. And it's funny because I've seen some people say that it makes no difference, and I know it makes a huge difference where he puts this stuff.

Speaker 3 (17:33):

The biggest difference is you don't need as much muffling. Literally, I can get a snare drum that is super ringy to no overtones with four tiny pieces of moon gel that are basically a half a moon gel cut into four pieces. I can dry that drum out completely with those little tiny pieces, and you still maintain the attack and the clarity of that drum head without changing any qualities of the head itself. You just get rid of the overtones. And when you use larger pieces on one side, you're actually changing the way that drum head sounds.

Speaker 2 (18:09):

Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. Now also, it makes a difference how far in from the edge you put it, right?

Speaker 3 (18:16):

Exactly. The closer to the edge you have it, the less overtones and the less muffling it'll have on the head itself. The further in you move those little pieces, the more interaction it acts with those waves that are being developed. And so it's kind of diminishing the waves before they actually get to the edge of the head, which is where it interacts with the shell. So the further in you move that muffling, the more muffling it'll actually do, even if it's

Speaker 2 (18:43):

A tiny, tiny piece. But you also run the risk of the drummer hitting him the further in you go.

Speaker 3 (18:50):

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (18:51):

So now on the topic of muffling, what do you think of those older snares that would have the muffle that you could switch on?

Speaker 3 (19:01):

Oh, the old batters batter bat, whatever, muffler. Yeah. I mean, I have a lot of older drums and I've taken them out of all my older drums just because of that idea of symmetrically muffling. But I mean, if they work, they work and there are some sounds that you just can't get from modern muffling styles that you can get from that one. If you're trying to do a real throwback sixties or fifties type sound, then those internal mufflers are actually really beneficial for helping create that sound because they were used back then. But in modern recordings, there's not so much of a need for them. And I find that they don't really help with the muffling. They just kind of put more tension on the head from the opposite side type of a thing.

Speaker 2 (19:52):

So with Toms, do you follow the same approach for muffling? Same basic approach?

Speaker 3 (19:58):

Yeah, so the same basic approach. I generally will muffle the bottom head first and I will barely muffle it at all. If I'm getting some sort of overtone ring that is not very pleasant, I will almost always go with a small one eighth of a moon gel on the bottom, on the resonant side first to see if that does anything, if it's a sustain issue. If you want a little bit shorter sound, I would add a little bit more on the resonant side a little bit further in. But with the Toms, it's the same thing. I always start from the wide open and gradually add muffling because I mean, granted, you're not doing anything destructive with muffling in most cases with moon gels or anything like that, but it's always better to start with less and ad until you get to the point where you like it as opposed to overdoing it and having to try to figure out how to go backwards.

Speaker 2 (20:54):

Okay. Now say that you've muffled and you've tuned it well, and it's almost there and found a cool mic and guy hits it and you have a nice body, nice note, nice attack, and then the tail starts good, but then warbles weird, it goes out of tune or something. You know what I'm talking about? Yes. How do you fix that? That

Speaker 3 (21:20):

Is super fine tuning. I usually will start with the top head because the drum will be on the stand at that point, and most of these corrections you can handle with the top head. I'll just place my finger lightly in the center of the drum and then go around and check each tension rod area on the head, and I will just ever so slightly like barely even touching lugs, turn 'em until they get a little bit more in tune, a little bit more in tune. Because usually when the tail goes bad, that means if the initial attack is good and the initial tone is good, that means that the heads are working well together. But when the heads start calming down, those pitch differences between the top and the bottom are revealing themselves. So usually you can fix that with the top head. If it still persists, even though the top head is really in tune, then I'll go and check the bottom head again and see if there's anything that has happened by hitting the drum. The bottom heads go out of tune a lot just by hitting the drums. A lot of people think that the bottom heads aren't important, and if you really want to make a drum set sound great, I don't care what drum kit it is, replace the bottom heads.

Speaker 2 (22:30):

Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (22:31):

You can do amazing work with just replacing the bottom heads.

Speaker 2 (22:34):

What's funny about that is a lot of people just come in with the bottom heads that came with the kit sometimes,

Speaker 3 (22:42):

Right? I mean, if you bought that kit three months ago, that's not a bad thing. But if that kit is like seven years old and you never changed out the bottom heads and you wondering why your drums don't sound good, well that's the reason right there. I mean, those heads go bad. You have to think about 'em the same way that as guitar strings, even though a guitar string doesn't break, it still gets dead and it still doesn't sound good after a certain amount of time. And the same thing happens with drums. I mean, not only do you have the drum itself vibrating on the edge of the shell, but you also have all the dust and dirt that has gone inside of the drum that has collected on the inside of the head. And you also have whatever environmental stress you've put the bottom of the head on, if you don't put 'em in cases or if you do put 'em in cases, but they're sitting on top of pieces of paper or they're just getting banged around, all of that stuff makes a difference with the bottom head. And most of the sound of the drum itself is in the bottom head anyway.

Speaker 2 (23:42):

Alright. So what happens if the ring sounds good? The body sounds good, attack is good, so you really don't want to mess with it too much, but the tail just goes on forever with floor tos. That happens sometimes that it sounds great, we don't want you to mess with it, but at the same time, that ring, it just goes on and on and on and on.

Speaker 3 (24:06):

Well, if you're using a production style that you don't want it in the rooms as well, I would that point start with some moon gels on the bottom, just slightly adding if that is way too long. I've developed a kind of trick that I learned a long time ago from a producer Pete Thornton.

Speaker 2 (24:30):

Oh, I know that guy.

Speaker 3 (24:31):

Yeah. Yeah. I was his live drummer for almost everything he did for a long time. And we had that problem where the length was too long, the drums weren't tuned, but the length was too long. And he's like, Hey man, you should put some cotton balls inside of that drum. And he didn't know what he was saying. He just heard somebody put cotton balls inside of the drum, which is great. It's a great idea. But when you leave the cotton ball itself in the shape, you get a bounce. Literally, the ball bounces on the inside of the drum and you get do as the cotton ball bounces on the inside of the drum. So what I do is I take that cotton ball and I spread it apart almost like thin like spiderweb, a little bit thicker than the Halloween spiderweb style flat. And I'll lay little pieces.

(25:21):

If it's a small drum, I'll lay a very tiny piece. If it's a bigger drum, I might use the whole cotton ball, but I'll use varying degrees of how much of that, and I'll lay that inside of the drum. I'll take the top head off and put the cotton ball on the inside, spread out so it lays flat, and then I'll put the top head back on and tune it back up. And what that it does, it kind of acts like a natural gait because when you hit the drum, the cotton ball bounces what that film of cotton now bounces off of the bottom head, and you have the pure tone of the drum just as if it was not muffled. And then instead of bouncing, it's actually floats a little bit down and gently comes to a rest on the bottom head, which stops the resonance of the bottom head. And as soon as the resonance on the bottom head stops, the top head stops shortly afterwards.

Speaker 2 (26:12):

Therefore your ring gets shorter,

Speaker 3 (26:14):

Therefore your ring gets shorter. And that's a trick that I've been doing for a long time, and I don't really like showing it a whole lot because it's kind of my trick. But I, if I tell you guys, there's going to be a lot of people messing it up anyway.

Speaker 2 (26:28):

Well, yeah. I mean, if someone's going to get good at tuning drums, they're going to get good at tuning drums.

Speaker 3 (26:36):

Right? They'll figure it out. I mean, the other thing is when it comes to muffling in particular, because there are certain styles and sounds that are out there, it's like there's a lot of things that you can do. Those studio rings that everybody uses that it's kind of their go-to, like, I don't know how to tune a drum. Let me put this on it. And I'm sure you know what, they're basically a ring cut out of the same plastic as a drum head. Well, those are great if you're looking for that type of sound, that kind of fuddy sound. But I've taken that a step further and I've cut one of those rings out of the heavy loaded vinyl that you use for making bass traps or adding to a wall in a studio to give it some thickness and some sound deadening properties. I've cut a ring out of that to put on my snare drums to get an instant eighties seventies dry drum sound.

(27:32):

Another cool trick is you can actually use old drumheads as long as they're not dented, take the old at the same size as the drum and turn it upside down and put it on top of the drum and you get immediate low end and a nice little slap on the top end that you couldn't get. And it's super dead, super dry, just thud central. And it's the coolest way to do something super quick. No tape, no nothing. You just stick the drum head on top of it upside down and just play on it. It's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (28:02):

You've got all kinds of tricks.

Speaker 3 (28:04):

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:06):

We're starting to run out of time. There's one thing I want to talk about. This is always a debate. People are always ream versus Evans and then or pinstripe versus clear or vintage emperors, or let's talk about the difference that picking the right heads makes because in my opinion, it makes all the difference.

Speaker 3 (28:28):

I mean, personally, I use Remo heads. I don't use anything else. Same because I've noticed that over the years, that the clarity and the ease of tuning is just unparalleled. I mean, yeah, you'll get some bad heads every once in a while, but every company has bad heads every once in a while. So it's not that big of a deal. But ultimately, Remo are the easiest for me to work with. They have the most of the things that I can't get from the other heads, which is that clarity and that pure drum sound. And in case you can't tell, I always start with a more pure sound to begin with and then modify to go on from there. The general rule with drum heads is the thinner the head, the more attack it's going to have, but the higher pitch it's going to want to be tuned.

(29:16):

The thicker the head, the more slap, but the lower it's going to want to be tuned. Coated heads are kind of shaving the top end and the bottom end off of your drum sound. So kind of like a high pass and a low pass filter set, super like a 60 B perve type curve. But that's what a coated head do to a drum, which is why it's a popular choice for snare drums because you can shave off the super highs and the super lows kind of sit in the middle, which is what snare drums want to do.

Speaker 2 (29:47):

Why do you think that emperor clears are such a popular choice in metal? For Toms

Speaker 3 (29:52):

Durability and the sound? They're two ply heads, so they're durable, so they can take heavy hitting, but the sound is not really colored as much as it would be with a vintage emperor, which is thicker, or an ebony emperor, which is also thicker, or a pinstripe, which has a little bit of some overtone issues that it takes care of because of the coating that's on the in between the head. So emperors are kind of more the classic type of metal sound because I'd say mostly because of durability. If everybody could change heads after three takes, then I'm sure everybody would be using ambassador clears, but that's not an affordable option.

Speaker 2 (30:35):

Yeah, that's very true. And that's actually, I feel the same way about ambassador coded on snare. If it didn't mean having to change them every song, I would probably pick those on snare a lot more often.

Speaker 3 (30:50):

The good alternative to that is the X 14. That's the head that I've been using mostly for metal stuff that I've been teching on, but also some of my stuff that I do here at my own studio. It's a single ply, 14 mil head, so it's the same thickness as the emperor, which is two seven mils, but it's a single ply. So it has the brightness and the attack of a single ply head, but the durability of a double ply head, they're great, great, great heads,

Speaker 2 (31:21):

Best of both worlds.

Speaker 3 (31:22):

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (31:23):

So last question, say somebody is on a budget, I always make bands get new heads for the entire record, which means multiple sets. And Remo doesn't give out discounts, at least not to me. So everyone's buying them full price, or sometimes someone at Guitar Center will hook it up. But I mean, so someone listening to this might be recording a band that's on a very limited budget. How do you recommend that they get the most bang for their buck, but still be able to get some heads so that they're not playing on the same trashed out crap?

Speaker 3 (32:06):

Take a good look at how you damage the heads to begin with. If there's pits and dents in them, look at changing your sticks first. If your stick tip is too small, if it's rounder, or if you're hitting really hard and using really thin sticks, you're going to get dents in your head and you're going to go through your heads a lot quicker. So take a look at your sticks first and figure out what type of sticks you're using, what type of damage you're doing to the heads. And I would say switch your sticks first. Buy a new set if you can, top and bottom, and you can make that whole set work for a record. If you can only afford one, obviously judge how damaged your top heads are, but go with whatever needs it the most. But the sticks are a huge things. If you hit really hard and you use really small tip sticks, you're going to notice that you're denting your heads a lot and dented heads do not sound good ever. So take a look at that first.

Speaker 2 (33:07):

And also keep in mind, in my opinion, that since snare is what's going to be hit the most, maybe if you can get,

Speaker 3 (33:15):

If

Speaker 2 (33:15):

There's any head that you would be able to get two of, I would get two snare heads.

Speaker 3 (33:20):

Exactly. If you can only afford to one, change of heads, go with the snare drum heads. For sure.

Speaker 2 (33:27):

And it is interesting in some styles of music that prefer dead sounding heads.

Speaker 3 (33:30):

Yeah, I mean, jazz is typical. If a guy shows up with new heads to a jazz session, he is not a real good player.

Speaker 2 (33:40):

But there's difference between that and a really dented head, right?

Speaker 3 (33:43):

Oh yeah, for sure. Jazz guys don't dent their heads. The denting thing comes from playing too hard with too small of a stick or hitting without letting the stick actually come off the head. If you poke through the head with your hits, then you're going to get dense. It's a combination of one of those three things, and you can save a lot by learning how to hit the drum correctly, but you can save even more by using the right tool to begin with. And that would be the shape of the tip and how big of a stick you're using versus how hard you're hitting.

Speaker 2 (34:15):

So as a producer, say you're not the drummer, but you're producing a band and you notice that not only does the guy hit weird, but he's got small tips and he does dent the heads. What types of adjustments would you have to make?

Speaker 3 (34:31):

I would hand him a new pair of sticks with bigger tips on 'em and make 'em suffer and make fun of 'em until he realizes that those small sticks are for wimps.

Speaker 2 (34:41):

What about the angle that he hits at?

Speaker 3 (34:43):

I would definitely take a look at that. Two drastic angles are not good in any way for drumming. Like if your stick is hitting the head at an angle, you're going to dent, but it's not only bad for the drum and the sound, it's bad for your body as well. You got to, playing drums is a physical thing, just like playing sports. And if you don't take care and pay attention to how you're doing what you're doing, you will hurt yourself. So if you have drastic angles on your Toms and you don't hit, you're not sitting low enough to hit them with a straight wrist at that angle, take a look at what angle you are hitting them at and where your wrist is. Ultimately, you want to be able to hit all the drums with a straight wrist. If your wrist is turned backwards when you hit the drum, then you're at too drastic of an angle or it's too close to you.

(35:38):

So take a look from the playing side, take a look at how you're playing. If it's one of those, the guy's ingrained a certain way, I would definitely, at that point, if he has a super broad angle, I would go with a large round tip stick as opposed to a small round tip, because the round tip will allow it to sound more evenly regardless of the angle it's hit at. Whereas an acorn tip would sound different. It would sound way different. If you hit it for the flatter surface, it'll be full. If you hit it where the angle tip is barely touching it, you're going to get a super thin sound. So there you go. Evaluate how you play, or if you're the producer, evaluate the player and say, ah, can we change this angle a little bit here and maybe lower this or whatever, and maybe point out the fact that how the stick hits the head is directly proportionate to how it sounds.

Speaker 2 (36:27):

Yep. And how long the head lasts. Well, exactly.

Speaker 3 (36:31):

There

Speaker 2 (36:31):

You have it. Drum tuning tips and tricks do.

Speaker 3 (36:35):

That was fascinating.

Speaker 2 (36:36):

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:37):

Oh, I'm sure it was.

Speaker 2 (36:38):

No, it actually is for me. I'm a guitar player, so I don't really care about drums. I just know how to mix them and make them sound great. And I hire people like you when I want them to sound amazing in the room. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:49):

Well, everybody should do that. You should all hire me.

Speaker 2 (36:54):

I agree. I second that motion

Speaker 3 (36:56):

Money well spent.

Speaker 2 (36:57):

Yeah. Well, dude, thanks again for coming on.

Speaker 3 (37:00):

No problem. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (37:01):

Yeah, it's great talking to you. And again, I'm sure we'll talk again soon. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (37:05):

For sure. The Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, it's brought to you by the 2017 URM Summit, a once in a lifetime chance to spend four days with the next generation of audio professionals and special guests, including Andrew Wade, Kane Churko, Billy Decker, fluff, Brian Hood, and many more. The inspiration, ideas, and friendship you'll get here are the things that you'll look back on as inflection points in your life. Learn [email protected]. The URM podcast is also brought to you by heirloom microphones. Heirloom microphones are high-end condenser microphones with something that has never been seen in the microphone industry, a triangular membrane. With our patented membranes and our tailored phase linear electronics, your recording and live experience will never be the same. Airland. Our microphones will help you discover clarity. Go to E-H-R-L-U-N-D SE for more info. To get in touch with the RM podcast, visit urm com slash podcast and subscribe today.