MISHA MANSOOR: How Periphery kept their masters, starting GetGood Drums, and treating your band like a business

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast, brought to you by Joey Sturgis tones, creating unique audio tools for musicians and producers everywhere. Unleash your creativity with Joey Sturgis tones. Visit joey sturgis tones.com for more info. And now your hosts, Joey Sturgis, Joel Wanasek, and Eyal

Speaker 2 (00:00:23):

Levi. Hey everyone. Welcome. Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast. I'm kind of sick today. Damn, you sound sick, dude. If I sound like a mutant, then this is Joey speaking. I should probably clarify that today we have a really awesome guest, a good friend of ours, and I would consider one of the most badass people in the scene. Mr. Misha Mansoor. Hello, how are you?

Speaker 3 (00:00:50):

Hey, how you doing? With that intro? I almost thought you were introing the wrong person for a second there. Most badass. Geez. It's like the first time anyone other than my parents have called me badass. Thank you,

Speaker 4 (00:01:02):

Dude. You deserve it. Yeah, you deserve it. I got to say that, I don't know if you remember this, but me and you were emailing years ago, and I think it was right around the time that my guitar record Avalanche Worms came out. I think that your first periphery record came out the same day, something

Speaker 3 (00:01:22):

Like that. Yeah, I remember that's when we first started talking. I remember you sent that to me and I was like, yo, this is crazy. I was like, I didn't know that someone can play guitar like that. It was pretty nuts. I was like, damn.

Speaker 4 (00:01:38):

Well, I felt the same. Well, thank you. I felt the same way about periphery, and I remember you being, I hope that people like it and I think it's safe to say that people liked it.

Speaker 3 (00:01:49):

Well, some people,

Speaker 4 (00:01:51):

Some people,

Speaker 3 (00:01:53):

I think if we're honest, we've always been a very polarizing band. I didn't realize just how much we would be then. Some people liked it. Some people like it very much. Some people very much dislike it. But in hindsight, I think that's really worked to our advantage.

Speaker 4 (00:02:07):

Well, do you feel like it means anything if people just have a lukewarm response? I find that the best artists are polarizing.

Speaker 3 (00:02:18):

It's an interesting thing. I guess in terms of success, maybe it is probably a better thing. I've never really cared, especially with the way that we started, which it was just me and my bedroom making music. It was just kind of having fun, and that was always the goal. So even if people thought it sucked, I still had fun making it, which was kind of the point. So that's always the way that I've looked at it, and that's always the way that people have looked at it. But being polarizing is just kind of interesting. It's kind of interesting to see what people take away from it, because regardless of what anyone will say, I'm very stubborn, so I'll always have my own point of view on it, and no one will really be able to change my mind on whether that's positive or negative. If I think something sucks, no one will be able to convince me that something that I've done is good. Even if they're sort of telling me how much they love it, it won't change anything. I'll still think it sucks. So I kind stubborn like that.

Speaker 4 (00:03:17):

That's interesting. One thing that I've always told people is to, in order to not get depressed over the bad, not bad press, but just the bad comments, the negativity, you can't take the good stuff too seriously either. It's like you can't have it both ways. If you really want to not be affected by the negativity, just try to not care what people think, period. If it's good or if it's bad, just stay true to what's inside of you and what you actually think about it. Because like you said, if you think you did something that sucks. Who cares what anybody else thinks? You're your own barometer basically.

Speaker 3 (00:03:59):

Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. But again, that's not like a conscious decision on my part. That's just me being really stubborn. It is just me being very me because I like why I know what I like. I know what I don't like. That may change, but in the moment, I always know that, and I know when something's hitting the mark and when it's not, and when something's not quite there, it doesn't matter what anyone says, it's not going to change that fact. There's only a few people in the world who can change my mind about that. They'll be sort band members or people that I'm working with who I trust musically because that's why I'm working with them. But aside from that, and even then, that can be challenging. But yeah, I guess it's my relationship with my music, if that makes sense. Everyone has their own relationship with their music and their own process. So this is by no means a judgment on people who do things differently. Of course. Just the way music's this weird thing. It's weird. It's a weird thing. And

Speaker 4 (00:05:07):

Is this still weird to you now years into it being your livelihood and you doing so many different things, does it still have that weird personal thing that's harder to find?

Speaker 3 (00:05:19):

Yeah, no, it's definitely a weird thing. I am very appreciative of music and obviously I love it, but I have this very weird relationship with music. I have a very, very weird relationship with music, like Half Love, half Resentment. I still feel like a worthless musician that never went away. And I think if I've grown in any ways kind of maybe acceptance of the fact that that will never go away, rather than trying to overcome that because it seems like the better I get on a technical level or the more I work at this or that, it's just the further away I realize I am from actually being good at anything. So I've realized that for me, it's just having fun, but there's also this guilt that comes with it. Now I'm going to open up to you guys on this podcast. There's this

Speaker 4 (00:06:10):

Open up dude,

Speaker 3 (00:06:12):

This guilt that comes with it because we've seen a little bit of success and we're fortunate enough, and I'm fortunate enough to make a living with music. So now there's this expectation, there's this voice in the back of my head that's like, well, come on you asshole. You got everything you wanted. You have your studio. You can make music anytime. Aren't you making music right now? And that's not necessarily a healthy way to approach making music. You shouldn't be making music out of guilt. You should be making music as you want to. And it's just this interesting dichotomy, this sort of battle that goes on inside my head sometimes that I need to get over a little bit. But

Speaker 4 (00:06:49):

I've actually had that same exact battle. You think about people who would sell their own parents to have these types of, I guess advantages or situations in their lives, outcomes, the studio, having a fan base, any of those things. And then sometimes it's like, well, tonight I just don't want to make music. I just want to hang out.

Speaker 3 (00:07:18):

Exactly. And that has to be okay. It messes with your head, but that has to be okay by definition. I mean, if we look at it on a very basic level, why did I start making music? I wanted to it. I felt an obligation to do so. And I think that honestly, it's a little bit of a dynamic that maybe some people get tricked into falling into. And what I mean is, let's say your band that's put out a record, and it does really well, all of a sudden you have pressure from fans, from label management, from everyone to put out another one. And usually that first record is a culmination of years and years of your best ideas. And then this next one, they're like, all right, well, you're going to have a couple months off between these two tours. Let's get a record together. And it's like, whoa, come on, man. That's not how that works. But at the same time, now you have this pressure to do that, and you might be writing music when you don't necessarily want to write music. And that's an unhealthy dynamic in my mind that gets pushed.

Speaker 4 (00:08:21):

That's not a good thing. It's

Speaker 3 (00:08:22):

Not, no, it's unhealthy and it's not going to yield good music. And that's where some resentment can start, I think, is this idea that I have to, you start it out by wanting to, and now you have to, and it's not that you have to in sort of a miserable way because it's still something that you love, but it's just not going to be the best stuff if it's not coming from sort of a genuine wand of like, oh, no, I have a great idea. I want to do this now. It's like, oh, all these arbitrary reasons are the reasons why I'm in front of the computer or sitting with my guitar trying to write something.

Speaker 4 (00:08:55):

Well, and I guess that one of the true measures of I guess a pro or of a great artist in this day and age is someone who, I mean, I think those feelings are natural actually, because had them too, and lots of people I know have had them, but I think the measure of a real pro is the person who can put those feelings aside and then just go kick ass. But I think also there comes a point where you need to realize that maybe now is not the best time to be trying to make music. Just because you do have a responsibility to put out something great and working all the time does not necessarily equal that something great will come out.

Speaker 3 (00:09:45):

Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (00:09:46):

That's the important, so this guilt that you're talking about, it's irrational because Oh,

Speaker 3 (00:09:53):

Completely, completely irrational.

Speaker 4 (00:09:55):

Because really your responsibility is not to be working 16 hours a day every single day. Your responsibility is to put out great stuff. And by having that guilt and by working 16 hours a day, that doesn't necessarily equal putting out great stuff. So that's why it's kind of irrational, because one does not equal the other. It's a logic versus emotions, man, they're

Speaker 3 (00:10:17):

Battling all day in there. Who knows who's going to win.

Speaker 4 (00:10:20):

Yeah, exactly. But the thing is, we can say that it's irrational all day, but the feelings are feelings or feelings

Speaker 3 (00:10:26):

By virtue of being irrational, you're not going to ever rationalize it out of your head. So it's just kind of there and you just learn how to deal with it anyways, it's sounding like it's a huge problem or something. I'm not even complaining, but it's just some insight into what I guarantee you, 99% musicians, if not a hundred percent of pro musicians who are in the system, if you will deal with this to some degree. And it might not be something that people are entirely aware of because it's easy to look at the happy side of things, but you just learn to deal with it. Really. There's

Speaker 2 (00:11:02):

Something about you though that I've noticed, even going back to our first interactions before we knew each other on the ultimate metal form.

Speaker 4 (00:11:12):

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:11:13):

Those days. Something that's, I would almost say the part of your DNA or something is that you're extremely humble and you're also extremely inquisitive of what's true and what's good. And I think those are the important ingredients that make up successful people. And I think not only with your band is that important. It's important in business and everything that you're involved in. And I just admire that. And I think that our listeners can benefit from me pointing that out, knowing that you can have a little bit of an ego. And I am not saying you have an ego. I mean, people can have an ego, but still be humble. And I think you manage that or balance that in a really, really admirable way.

Speaker 3 (00:12:03):

Thanks, man. I mean, I don't even think that I'm humble. I think I'm just sort of realistic and grounded. For example, if I genuinely thought I was sick, I wouldn't be afraid to tell people that because it would be a fact. And I don't think that there would be anything wrong with that either, because you'd just be speaking factually. And if you are falsely humble about it, then that's kind of condescending, in my opinion. So I'm not so much into that, it's just more that that's genuinely how I feel about myself when I say I don't think I'm that great. It's not me being humble, it's me being like, no, I have seen what's out there. Thank you, YouTube, thank you internet. And I am very well aware of the fact that I'm really not that great. Thank you. What I seem to be doing seems to be, yeah, it seems to be resonating with people, and that's great.

(00:12:54):

But again, because I don't feel genuinely that great about what I do in the grand scheme of things, it's like I can't think that I'm the shit. I'll never think that because there's just so much more talent out there. So I just think it's being realistic and being grounded. If ever that changes, if ever I hit my head and I become the best guitarist or something, I won't be afraid to tell people that I'm good. It'll be true. But until that point in time, why would I say that? I know what my weaknesses are, I know where I have to work on stuff in pretty much every aspect. So I'm just going to focus on that. And I think I've tried to surround myself with people who are sort of grounded in the same way because it leads to a healthy environment. And as you said, Joey, it's something that I've recognized in successful people. They do behave a certain way. They do look at life a certain way. They look at opportunities a certain way. And if you're overly egotistical, sometimes it sort of can cloud your perspective and judgment in those situations in a way that'll work against you. So I think that's what I've sort of taken away from that. Well, yeah,

Speaker 4 (00:14:04):

If you're overly clouded by the ego or by the intoxicating smell of your own made up badassery, it can really, I guess, muddy the waters when determining what's a realistic opportunity to jump on what's worth the risk, what's not worth the risk, what can you actually pull off? What can you not pull off? How should you proceed? You need to have a clear head to make these decisions. It's a tough world out there.

Speaker 3 (00:14:37):

Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (00:14:38):

You cannot let yourself get clouded by dumb things like pride and ego. No, just think back to Pulp Fiction where he tells Bruce Willis to go down in the fight,

Speaker 1 (00:14:52):

And

Speaker 4 (00:14:52):

He says that he's going to feel pride stinging him and to just ignore that shit. And I totally think about that scene a lot when I feel like my pride is getting in the way of my decision making by not going down in the fight. In that scene in Pulp Fiction, he basically had the mob after him trying to kill him, whereas if he had just ignored his pride, he would've walked off a millionaire.

Speaker 3 (00:15:15):

Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. I never looked at that scene quite that way, but that's actually a really good point.

Speaker 4 (00:15:21):

Yeah, you got to put your pride aside. Now, another thing that you said that I keyed in on is about how it's not about being humble, it's about being realistic. What's out there. I've always felt the same way when people compliment my playing or whatever, it's like, yeah, but Jeff Loomis or,

Speaker 3 (00:15:39):

Yeah, right. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (00:15:42):

Yeah. It's like, cool.

Speaker 3 (00:15:43):

I know you guys understand. You guys have worked with insane musicians too. And it's like, well, I'm aware of what's out there.

Speaker 4 (00:15:51):

Yeah. You can't fool me with your compliments, dude. I know. I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm not going to agree with you. Yeah, exactly. And it's not even humility, it's just being honest. Yeah. It's like

Speaker 3 (00:16:05):

Eight is more than two. That's just a fact, unfortunately. And Jeff Loomis is better at guitar than I am. That's a fact. That's not me being humble. That's me just being realistic. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (00:16:19):

Exactly. And if I was better than him, I would be okay to say it nicely, but I will never be better than him, and I'm okay with that too.

Speaker 3 (00:16:31):

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at as well. It's all right, I'm, that's the thing. It's like you enter this weird dynamic all of a sudden where it's all about just sort of sentiments that aren't actually saying anything. It's just wasted breath and energy. Whereas really what it's about is like, no, I know where I'm at and I'm okay with that. And knowing where I'm at allows me to be okay with that and allows me to sort of work on myself in a realistic manner, in a reasonable manner, rather than thinking that I'm better than I'm, and being like, well, why is this not happening? Why am I not able to do? It's like that's a disservice to yourself, really.

Speaker 4 (00:17:13):

I completely agree. So I have something that I've wanted to ask you for years Ask away. I'm going to ask now, now's the opportunity. So when you guys got signed, you basically did what I thought was the dream. My dream, because a little bit of background was when I went to music school, I basically failed because I never went to class and I just studied guitar in my room the whole time in music business. And I learned about how the industry works instead of going to class and seems to have worked out. But so in all my studies, what I came to was that the smartest way to get signed would be to not sign worldwide deals, but to do distribution deals for different territories and all that, the way you guys did it. And I always wanted to do that, but my band never got the clout to be able to pull that off to be able to negotiate that. And so when I saw that you guys did that back then in what, 2009 or oh eight or whatever that was

Speaker 3 (00:18:23):

Around then?

Speaker 4 (00:18:24):

Yeah. I was like, wow, they actually did this. If I was to write a book about how people should approach getting signed in the new era, the music industry, this would be the way to do it. And I can't believe that a band in our genre actually pulled this off, and I've always wanted to tell you that I really respect that you pulled it off, and I want to hear more about it.

Speaker 3 (00:18:53):

Okay, yeah, sure. I'm glad that's something that we haven't really talked too much about, so I'll be happy to tell you all about it. So yeah, I mean, that deal was very different. And I'll start this off by saying that that deal was a deal that pretty much every labels, we knew exactly what we wanted. That was the first part, is we knew exactly what we wanted. And we went to these labels and well, they came to us. We had labels coming to us. So we're like, Hey, why should we sign with you? What's so great about you? Which is, first of all, that's the first thing I always tell someone. It's like, don't go begging for a record deal. Wait for them to come to you, build your name. And then when they're coming knocking down, then you get to ask that wonderful question, Hey, well, what's so great about you? Why should I go with you guys instead of these other guys?

Speaker 4 (00:19:40):

Did you actually say it in those words?

Speaker 3 (00:19:41):

Well, I mean, you want to be polite, but yeah, but that's a sentiment. That's a sentiment. It's like, so why do you believe that we should go with you? As opposed to, oh, please, please, will you sign my band? Which is the attitude, here's the demo, check us out, this is blah, blah, blah. It's like we had labels coming to us being like, Hey, so you guys want to go pro guys want to join the big boys? But we knew exactly what we wanted. And when we told them that, every label was like, there's no way you're going to get that deal. There's absolutely no way. You're not going to get that from us, and no other label's going to ever give you that deal. And then our answer was like, alright, fine. So there was probably two or three years of that of labels coming to us. Not every label, but all the ones that would sort of be appropriate for us. Everything from local labels to big labels like Roadrunner and Sumerian. Just Wait,

Speaker 4 (00:20:33):

Let me stop you right there. Do you realize how crazy that is though? Because how many bands have you seen unsigned bands who are like, Nope, nope, to labels, and then it never get another opportunity?

Speaker 3 (00:20:45):

Well, yeah, but at the same time, okay, so we were lucky because we asked a lot of questions. I asked everyone in the industry, I remember all our friends. I remember asking Bt Bam about their deal, and they were like, yeah, we were 18 when we signed. It was Garbage. Don't sign the victory. Common knowledge now. But that was really good to know. Victory definitely tried to court us, but obviously they never would've given us what we wanted. And we asked all sorts of people for advice, anyone who was in the industry, we asked for advice, and that's how we kind of formed what it is we were after. And what it came down to me was this, we were at a transitional time in the industry before that point in time. Records were extremely expensive to make, right? So your record deal with a marketing budget.

(00:21:38):

I mean, you'd be looking maybe at a hundred grand all the way to a million. You try to get that money from a bank, they're going to laugh at you. There's no way, even pre 2007, there's no way they're going to give that money to a musician. So really, record labels were just banks, and they were taking your masters as collateral. So that's why that deal made sense. And you'd get a piss poor royalty at best. You'd be getting, what, 14%? They would take your record sales. And depending on the deal, at that point in time with downloading, they were starting to do what were called 360 deals, which was their clever way of, I love businessmen. They're so good at spinning a shitty deal into seeming, it's a great thing. But the 360 Deal came around, and that basically meant that it would take a share of everything you made, but the way that they would pitch it, it was so great, they would say, well, we're going to enter a partnership.

(00:22:37):

So it's a profit and risk share, but really what it means is they don't have to put nearly as much money into your van because it doesn't cost as much to make records anymore. And they get to take 50% of whatever you make or whatever percentage was negotiated of whatever you make out of your merch, out of everything, which used to be untouched because CD sales used to cover that. Now people are stopping. People weren't buying as much CDs, so they're like, well, we got to make money from somewhere. Their business models couldn't be supported off of CD sales anymore. So they got clever bands. Were doing the 360 deals. We knew to stay the fuck away from this. I can swear, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:23:14):

You could fucking say whatever you

Speaker 3 (00:23:15):

Goddamn want. All right, great, great. Well, that'll be my only fuck of the, oh, fuck, fuck God, fuck, fuck. Alright. Anyways. But yeah, that was the deal we knew to stay away from because once we understood how it operated, we're like, yeah, that's a rotten deal. And so basically I was going to these labels and I was just trying to approach it from a pragmatic angle. I was like, well, look, you don't need to give us much advanced money. In fact, you don't need to give us any advance money. We're going to deliver something that you can literally just put out. Why would we give you the masters? Why would you own the masters? I understand if you're giving us a $250,000 loan, why you want the masters, but now you're all we're asking is it's a low risk thing on your end. All you have to do is just put this out and you make money.

(00:24:08):

And that's what sort of changed the conversation a little bit. It was because we were doing everything ourselves and because it was such a low risk venture, and a lot of these companies were on the fence. I remember Monte Connor was on the fence, and Monte didn't really get what we were doing. He was at Roadrunner or was at Roadrunner back then for those who don't know. But he was saying, look, I don't get your guys' music. I really don't see what all the fuss is about. But I got a bunch of people in my office that say, I'd be crazy if I didn't sign you guys.

Speaker 4 (00:24:38):

I love his honesty.

Speaker 3 (00:24:40):

Yeah, no, I did too. I was so thankful for it. I found it so refreshing. And I actually told him that. I was like, yo, dude, thank you for your honesty. First and foremost, honestly, we probably would want to work with a label that is stoked on what we're doing, but thank you for not wasting our time. That really meant a lot. And that's why I always liked Monty, because I knew that he would be a no bullshit kind of. I could tell he was just a no bullshit music fan.

Speaker 4 (00:25:06):

You know what he told me about the first doth record? The unreleased one, I mean the self-released one.

Speaker 3 (00:25:11):

What did he say

Speaker 4 (00:25:12):

When he heard it? He said, you should take this record and bury it so deep so that no one could ever find it. Even if a flood takes place. Well, that's honesty. Yeah, exactly. That sucks. Yeah, no, I thought it was hilarious.

Speaker 3 (00:25:31):

That is funny. Well, I mean, it is that same sort of brutal honesty. It was like, yeah, I don't get you guys, I don't see why. I don't see why you guys are going to be a thing. It's not my thing, but everyone in my office says that I should look at you. So that's why we're talking. And he also didn't want to give me the kind of deal that we wanted. And the good thing about Sumerian was that back then, back then, Sumerian is a force now, but back then when other labels like, well, who else do you have looking? If I brought up Sumerian, they're like, who? And that was the beauty of it was Sumerian was just starting, and Ash as a result was willing. Already he was offering a very competitive deal because he wanted to do the 360 deal, but he wanted to do 50% royalties, which was a lot better.

(00:26:20):

But we were like, yeah, you can't touch the other stuff. We don't want a 360 deal. And we were saying, look, you're great in the States. What can you do for us in Europe and Canada? You have nothing there. We really should just go with labels that specialize in those territories. They'll push for us. And there's a lot of back and forth over years. And then finally he was like, all right, what's it going to take for us to sign you? And I told him, I was like, this is what it's going to take. And he's like, alright, alright, we'll make it work. So it was just knowing what we wanted, being patient, talking to other labels. And here's the funny thing. Here's the funny thing is the second that Ash accepted our deal, I think a bunch of the other labels, but definitely Roadrunner was like, oh shit, did we just fuck up?

(00:27:09):

Because Monty was then like, shit, I guess someone would give them that deal and it might as well have been up us. Now, we had already signed for Canada would distort at that point in time. But basically Monty came back and was like, look, let's scoop you up for basically every other territory. And since Roadrunner was such a force, it made sense. They had their own offices, they have their Australian office or European office and all that. So they could specialize in those territories in a way that smaller labels like Sumerian couldn't. So that worked out pretty well in the end. And although we didn't end up working with Monty himself, he did facilitate that deal and we're really thankful for that. So he's been really good to us despite the fact that we've never directly worked with him. But yeah, that's how that deal sort of came about is just patience and knowing what you want and being able to say, no,

Speaker 4 (00:28:02):

Man, that takes some balls to be able to say no to that level of offer.

Speaker 3 (00:28:08):

Yes and no. I think the thing is that we also started out after the transition, think the reason that this time was a bit difficult for bands was because they went from bands and labels. Let's just say though, most of the music industry on that side of things was they were very successful doing something and having a business model that worked out just fine. And then one day it doesn't for no reason, basically for a really dumb reason. And what everyone really wants is for it to bounce back and it's not bouncing back, it's just getting worse. We entered in on the side of like, Hey, well we have no delusions about this. There's no money in this industry. Let's just do this for the love. So if we're doing it for the love, we're going to do it right. We're not going to be tempted by money and fame and all this stuff for God's sakes. We're playing progressive metal. How much money is there in this anyways? So if we're going to do a deal, let's do it, right? Let's not compromise on that. Let's get the thing that we want. And if we don't get, we'll just wait around and just keep on keeping on and just see what happens,

Speaker 4 (00:29:12):

I guess. Alright, that makes perfect sense. The way you explain it, I guess it takes someone who actually understands reality for what it is. Back to what we were saying earlier about it's not humility, it's just being realistic and understanding. We were talking about

Speaker 3 (00:29:29):

This is why we asking, this is why we were asking people for advice. Look, we didn't understand the climate, but we understood that we didn't understand the climate and that the climate seems to be changing every six months to a year. So it's like all the books written about the industry were irrelevant. All the information, all the experts were wrong. So we're like, well, why don't we ask bands who are in it? What sucks right now? What do you wish you had done differently? And we made sure that our deal reflected that. And I'll say it's pretty amazing that we got the deal that we did in hindsight, but it was just because we had a label that was starting out and that really wanted us that saw the potential of grabbing us and was willing to give up a lot of what they originally wanted to have in order to have us. They did the long play on that one. And I'd say that worked out pretty well for both of us.

Speaker 4 (00:30:19):

Now you realize that this type of thinking is not common among musicians. That's some innate business sense that you just don't find every day in our community. Do you have any idea where you got those instincts from?

Speaker 3 (00:30:38):

Yeah, my dad's an economist. Oh, there you go. Yeah. And were Jewish. Could stereotypes come into this at all? No. I mean money been always. It's always been something that I guess I've always been aware of money. I've always tried to not take it for granted. I've always tried to understand. I don't know, it's just the business side. I think it's fascinating to me. I think the business side is fascinating to me, and I think I've always been aware, my parents were not the kind of people to spend money frivolously. They were very, very sort. My dad especially very calculate my dad can stretch a dollar further than just about anyone that I know. So look, this all started by the way, my dad's like that story of you work hard, you get a good life. Went to London School of Economics, and then grad school at Harvard has just been successful because he works hard, right?

(00:31:37):

Try telling that guy, Hey dad, so I'm dropping out of college, I want to do music now. He was supportive. He is like, you should do what you want to do. But he was like, look, it's a tough industry. Most people don't make it now. You should try it, but you need to work hard. I don't want you to think that this is some excuse to just sit around and be lazy and play video games all day. You need to actually do it. And he was like, look, we'll let you move back home. You'll pay us a very reduced rate of rent and you'll work full time and if you do that, we'll let you live at home for cheap and in your free time you can work on music. And that was the deal. So there was always a sense of don't take any of this for granted and really make it count.

(00:32:22):

And then I guess just being aware of the business side and that what I'm entering is a business. It's fun, but it is still a business and you should give it that level of respect. And it's like, do you want this to be this fun thing that you do with your friends on the weekend or do you want this to be the real deal? Because that's going to change your attitude. That's going to change how you approach this and every decision that you make. And that's what we decided early on is that we were going to run this a business and treat it with that level of respect.

Speaker 4 (00:32:52):

It's interesting to me that you say that you refer to it as respect. I completely agree. Is respect the vessel, basically respect. If you treat it with that level of respect, you will make better decisions in my opinion. Absolutely. And you won't do the frivolous things and the dumb things that well, hopefully you won't do the dumb and frivolous things that bans and artists do that basically shoot themselves on the foot over. I think that that's fascinating. It's so uncommon for musicians to go in with that type of thinking. Something maybe you could elaborate on how a lot of people, how do I say this? It's a cliche term to say your band is a business, but it's true. Your band is a business. But it's one of those things like in recording when we say just use your ears, and it's like, okay, just use your ears. But what does that even mean? Just use your ears. If your ears aren't developed, just use your ears. Doesn't really mean much because you can't even hear what you're supposed to hear. If you can't spot what 8.5 k is up a db, then using your ears isn't going to help you to hear 8.5 up a db. So when we say treat your band like a business, okay, but what does that actually mean?

Speaker 3 (00:34:19):

Well, it's interesting because I feel like in the later years I've been being sort of a dose of real talk with people, whether it's like at clinics or VIP or wherever, whatever opportunities I get. But I don't mind being honest about this kind of stuff and I feel like it's probably needed because it's not what people want to hear, but it's sometimes what they need to hear. What I'd say is that if treat your band like a business doesn't mean anything to you or doesn't translate into something that seems to benefit you, you probably don't have it. In the same way that if use your ears when you're mixing doesn't seem to, if you can't trust your ears or if when you trust your ears it doesn't yield a better result, maybe it's not the right thing for you. And that's a truth. Not everyone is cut out for everything. Guess what? I suck at most things in life, just most things. If you gave me that generic advice that works for most people, oh, just do that.

(00:35:26):

Just follow through when you hit the ball, that shit means nothing to me. Just follow through. Yeah, that's just gibberish. It's like I feel like that's what I'm doing, but it's making things worse. If that's the case, then maybe it's not for you. And that has to be okay too, is not everyone will succeed in their various fields. It's important to find something that sort does work for you. And that's not to say that you can't learn, and that's not to say that people who have an innate sense of it can't hone it further because I'm definitely no expert on any of this stuff, but I have noticed that I had a tendency towards it and I have associated myself and the band members have a tendency for it. And guess what? That's a great thing to have. It's a great resource to have when everyone in your band really gets it, it skips so many arguments because everyone's on the same page about that kind of stuff. They understand that the band needs to be run a certain way and they will give the band a certain amount of respect in that sense because that's a very, very important thing to everybody.

Speaker 4 (00:36:35):

You've got some smart dudes in your band, and that's really, really remarkable. By the way, coming from my production background, it's not normal. It's just not normal dude. To find a band where there's that many smart people who, not just smart, but that many entrepreneurs in a band, normally in a band, and I'm talking about successful bands. There's the one guy, the one guy who's the visionary, and then maybe the one guy who's technically really good. And then the three guys that are just good looking or cool enough, I'm not talking shit. It's just the way it is. It's not normal to have a bunch of alpha entrepreneur types that are really cool and really get it and really intelligent all in a band. And the results speak for themselves. And I think that that leads me to one of the other things I want to talk to you about, which is a lot of your side ventures like GD or Horizon.

(00:37:43):

I think that it's what you guys are doing. First of all, I think it was a great example of, like I said earlier, the way you guys signed your deal was if I was to write a book about how people should approach getting signed in the new age, I would have a chapter devoted to you guys. And I've thought that for years now. And then also if I was going to write a chapter about how musicians should develop alternate revenue streams in lieu of record sales not being what they used to be, I would write a chapter on you guys. So basically I would write a book about you.

Speaker 3 (00:38:24):

So basically I should get some royalties on this book is what you're saying.

Speaker 4 (00:38:27):

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (00:38:29):

Well,

Speaker 4 (00:38:29):

That is if I write the book, yes, you should write the book. All right. Yeah, that's fine. We'll do a 360 deal with the boat.

Speaker 3 (00:38:37):

Yeah, we'll do a 360.

Speaker 4 (00:38:41):

But for real, I remember again, when I was going to school, they told us that you should develop multiple revenue streams, but what they meant was royalties, t-shirts and publishing.

(00:38:54):

They didn't mean what you guys are doing obviously, because a lot of this stuff didn't exist yet. They didn't mean make your own pedal company, make your own drum sample company and all these things that you guys do. So I wanted to talk a little bit more about that. First, I wanted to talk a little bit about the individual side ventures that you guys do, but then also what brought that about is that just an innate thing? Again, you guys are just a bunch of entrepreneurs. For instance, people who might not be aware. Matt, your drummer, he did band happy years ago. This is what you guys do. You guys make

Speaker 3 (00:39:35):

Businesses? Yeah, well, I mean, the thing is, so Matt basically joined the band when we sort of became a real touring band. And I think having two, Matt and I are very much the entrepreneurs. I'd say the other guys sort of picked it up from being surrounded by strong personalities. Like Matt and I are pretty strong personalities in the van. So the other guys sort of picked up and they had a knack for it, but I guess they just never really had been pushed into that. But then they realized, oh wait, you can do this kind of stuff. So everyone's kind of become very entrepreneurial as a result, and it's become a healthy place to discuss that kind of stuff and to follow that kind of stuff. And it's also interesting because you mentioned band happy, but band happy failed, but was such an important lesson for Matt. And it also shows you, it's like the cliche, I hate those goddamn motivational poster things, but it's that sentiment of like, yeah, if it fails, so what? You learn something move on dentist

Speaker 4 (00:40:42):

Office posters,

Speaker 3 (00:40:44):

Right? Right, exactly. But it is really that. I mean, we don't have any posters for it, but that's literally what happened. Matt was bummed out about it and then just bounced right back and just got into new things. And those things have been successful. And that's the kind of mentality, it's like, well, what's the worst that can happen? You'll fail and then you just do the next thing.

Speaker 4 (00:41:07):

I just did a podcast where I answered a question about how do I get over my fear of submitting things? And my answer is just fuck it. Because

Speaker 3 (00:41:19):

If

Speaker 4 (00:41:19):

You submit something and people hate it, a mix or whatever, or your business venture or you submit your band to get signed and you don't get the deal or you don't get the mix or your business fails or whatever, fuck it, who cares? What's the worst? You're not

Speaker 3 (00:41:34):

Going to die. It sucks. And yeah, you just do the next thing, just focus on the next thing. It just means that that didn't work. It doesn't mean that you suck. It means that that idea didn't work. And it's not even that the idea sucked necessarily. It might just not been delivered properly. Who knows, learn from why it didn't work basically is the point and do the next thing. And that's what we do. That's what all of us do. But I think this idea that when you're an entrepreneur, you can make your business about whatever you want, so you make it about things you care about, it's kind of sweet. So us being musicians and having this entrepreneurial spirit means that we're going to be involved in the music industry, things that we genuinely care about. And if periphery has ever been a lesson for anything, it's like do things you genuinely give a shit about.

(00:42:26):

Periphery has always been a way of, it's just a vessel for self-expression. And no matter who's come in and tried to pollute that with talk of being a radio band or fame or money or whatever, it's very easy to tell those people to fuck off because we genuinely don't have any interest in that. And especially as we transition to this point, periphery never made a lot of money, and even as it stands, doesn't make a lot of money. Everyone in the band makes a pretty good living, but we do it outside of the band, maybe because of the band, but not directly as a result of the band's income. The band's income is very limited. So that gives us this freedom to enjoy the band and make it just about the music, make it just about what we want, and we'll never be tempted by these things that could sort of corrupt it.

(00:43:19):

Well, that also extends to these businesses. These are all passion projects. They all started out as just things that were like, this is something cool. This is something that we'd like. And in starting something that's a passion project, it's very easy to not let it get corrupted. And I think that that's where a lot of the problems come up is when you have a good idea, but then you get a taste of money or fame or whatever, and then you sort of compromise that idea. You want a bit of that. It's like I've started to realize that if you genuinely have something that's good and something that you're passionate about, that that alone can allow it to exist and be good enough. And if you handle the business side in a smart fashion, you shouldn't have to sell your soul to make it work.

Speaker 4 (00:44:04):

I think that's very, very wise. So more specifically then, what needs were you trying to fulfill, I guess, by doing these projects? Why Horizon?

Speaker 3 (00:44:17):

Okay, so Horizon was just because I love pedals. I have so many pedals, I have so many pedals, and my deal with proton sort of ran its course, and I was actually actually talking to my dad about it, and I was like, yeah, I'm having trouble finding another company that's going to be a good fit. My dad was like, why don't you just start your own? And I was like, come on dad. I can't just start a pedal company.

Speaker 4 (00:44:44):

Yes, you can.

Speaker 3 (00:44:45):

And it's so funny because he was totally right, but of course my first reaction to my dad's going to be like, no, dad, come on. Shut up. That's exactly

Speaker 2 (00:44:55):

How I reacted to my friend telling me to make a plugin company. I was like, you can't just start a plugging company. You can't just do

Speaker 3 (00:45:00):

That. And then you mull it over for a few days and you're like, wait, but maybe I can.

(00:45:06):

And then the idea becomes very attractive. Yeah, I guess it's just that initial inertia to change, but then once it catches, then you get the momentum of that and it's like, okay, no, this is what I want to do. Luckily, just being in the industry and having a lot of friends and contacts, I realized that I had some good contacts. So my buddies May tab and Brian who do wired guitarist and string drop and just generally brilliant, brilliant marketing guys. I've always just talked to them over the years about marketing stuff. I knew they were real geniuses with that. I was like, Hey, so I'm thinking about doing this. You think this is a good call? Is this anything that maybe you'd be interested in? And they were like, well, let's think about it. And they were like, yeah, you know what? This could be worth looking at.

(00:45:56):

And we just kind of started talking and it was kind of something that the more we talked about it, the more excited we got about it. And that's that sign, that's how, and it's the same thing with a band or business, a song or whatever. It's like you kind of get this gut feeling after a certain point when you're onto something that you're like, yeah, I think we're onto something here. And that's what we were getting there. And so then eventually it was just like, this is something that we're all really excited about, let's get this going. And that's what started the ball rolling on that. Something like GD for example. So we have our drum sample company. We'd been using tune tracks since basically since I started recording, and it was just like, Hey, well guys, I think we have the resources to do one of our own.

(00:46:48):

And it wasn't to try to be competitive or anything. It was literally just for fun. It was just like, wouldn't it be sweet to have our own drum samples? Wouldn't it be sweet to have Matt's playing in Matt's kit? I'm already programming stuff format in his style. I had love to have his samples. I think his drums sound great. I think Ali makes his drums sound great. If I could have that on my computer, I'd be so stoked. And if we have it, we could probably try to sell it too. And that's how that started. But these would just literally just passion projects. I think they came from the right place for me because they were just things that I wanted. So we made them. And that's kind of a good angle to start from in my opinion.

Speaker 4 (00:47:32):

Let me just tell our listeners, those of you who are subscribed to Nail the Mix, you get $20 off, get good drums in our bonuses section. They were nice enough to provide a code just for you guys. So if you're subscribed, go to the bonuses and look up the get Good Drums bonus and get those drums because they sound great. So now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Speaker 3 (00:47:58):

Thanks for the plug.

Speaker 4 (00:47:59):

Yeah, no problem. I mean, happy to do it. What I thought was interesting, I was watching the product videos about the horizon pedals and I thought that it was very, very smart to do something pedal wise that actually addresses modern issues like extended range guitars, low tunings, and digital amps like the Kemper for instance, because we do all love our tube screamers, but they're not designed for modern music. And I think it's so cool that you guys took something that's classic that seems like people will always love, people, will always love overdrive, but you tweaked them in a way that actually is relevant in 2017.

Speaker 3 (00:48:50):

Yeah, I mean, this is kind of a general thing. A general trend that I've noticed is oftentimes new sounds or new trends in this industry, and I'm sure you guys have noticed the same thing, is usually from appropriating some old technology or technique or whatever and sort of applying it in a different context than what you would expect. It's like, oh, but did you know if you tried this pedal in front of it, you get this other sound and it's like, that's great and it's really cool, but that's an accident that's not on purpose. So then it's looking at like, okay, so what about this accident is working to my advantage? And then if that's the case, then what do I wish we could tweak about it? For example, the high pass filter and low pass filter on a tube screamer are what create the sort of tightness and smoothness that you get when you put in front of a high gain M.

(00:49:41):

It was never intended to be used like that, but that's what it works really well for. And the high pass filter is the most noticeable effect. So it was like, well, what if we had a variable high pass filter? Because sometimes people complain about there not being enough flow and sometimes too much, and it's definitely down to the amp and the guitar. It's definitely down to your setup. So there's no one solution that works for everything, so why don't we just make it variable and then you can adjust it depending on your rig. And that seemed like a good idea. And it seemed also, the next thing is that anyone who was doing that because of the added noise in that setup would always be putting a gate of some kind afterwards. So it was like, well, why not just put that on the pedal?

(00:50:23):

And all this stuff was also sort of crowdsourced. One thing we wanted to do was to get people's feedback on this because one thing that me and my partners at Horizon were discussing was it's almost like a guessing game. We realized, oh, well, what should we put out? Well, what do people want? It's like, well, I think they want this. It's like, well, how about instead of thinking what they want, why don't just ask? Why don't we just ask them what they want? We do that all the time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because it's like why figure out? Especially we have a great tool like the internet. I understand why before you didn't have access to people, but now we have access to people and people being have access to people answering questions, people like being involved with community stuff. If there's anything that we've learned with periphery, being very close with your fan base is only a good thing.

(00:51:15):

It's only a good thing. At least for us, it's been so we're like, well, why don't we take that same attitude and let's see what these guys come up with pedals, and they're obviously, the first question we get is, how are you sure you won't end up with something crappy? And it's like, yeah, okay, we're going to filter this to some degree. It's not going to be like that Mountain Dew campaign where they named the drink Hitler wasn't so bad. It was an one. Yeah, yeah, because it was just input whatever name and vote on it. That's a lesson that you learned. So we are filtering this. You're not going to end up with that pedal. But there are some really creative ideas, there's some really creative ideas and some really good feedback that we got. It was sort of a shorter process with this first pedal, the precision drive that we put out, but we're already starting to pull for even what direction we go in for the new one.

(00:52:13):

And the response that we got was just insane. I mean, even the pre-sales on the pedal have been way beyond what we expected. So it shows that people want to be involved and it shows that there is something there to be explored. And I'm actually just kind of excited because I'm not entirely sure what we're going to put out, but it's going to be kind of up to the community. It's going to be someone was saying like, oh, is that your signature pedal? I was like, actually, it's your signature pedal. You guys are the ones that are designing this. We're going to put it together. We're going to filter it so that it's a good idea on a working pedal, and we're going to make sure that it's top quality, but it's your ideas that are going to be the basis of what will form this new pedal.

Speaker 4 (00:52:59):

Such a smart idea, actually responding to the needs and wants of the marketplace in real time.

Speaker 3 (00:53:05):

Yeah, I mean if you think about it, it's like you want to be giving people what they want rather than having to guess and hope. Like

Speaker 4 (00:53:14):

I said, man, we do that all the time over at Nail the Mix and URM Academy.

(00:53:20):

Since we do education, we always balance it with what they want to know versus what we know that they need to know. So for instance, on our URM enhanced level, which is above nail the mix, we have a video library called Fast Tracks. They're like courses like two or three hour long courses of very specific things like gain staging or how to actually hear compression, things like that. And we know that they wanted to get some of these topics in there, but we make the order that you go in at the beginning required so that it's required that you go through the gain staging one, it's required that you go through the mix prep one as prerequisites because gain staging and mix prep are two of the most important things that you could do to mix properly. But those are the two things that people will skip because they'll want to get right to compression and the fun stuff. So we'll source the crowd to find out what it is that they want to learn, and then we'll, like you did, we will filter it and then we will superimpose that or we'll combine that with what we know that they need to know in order to be able to actually utilize what they want to know.

Speaker 3 (00:54:37):

And I think that's really smart. That's how you can have your cake and eat it too, with that whole way of delivering the lessons and the content. I think that's really smart.

Speaker 4 (00:54:47):

It works great, man, because they actually are getting better and they are enjoying it at the same time.

Speaker 3 (00:54:55):

So by the way, thanks for focusing on gain staging and mixed prep because those are probably the two most boring, annoying to learn about subjects that really don't have any immediate, there's no instant gratification from that, but it's probably the best, the most important skills you could learn. To tell you the truth, dude, it is crucial. It's probably, especially if they're sending stuff off to be mixed after the fact, God, that saves everyone a lot of time. So you're building the next generation of engineers, make sure that makes this sound better and that people won't be as annoyed with the mixes they get.

Speaker 4 (00:55:39):

Okay, well, the thing is we actually want people to be able to get hired. We realize that not every single person who subscribes is going to have a career. And that's fine.

Speaker 3 (00:55:49):

Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:55:50):

It's not possible. It's not.

Speaker 3 (00:55:52):

It's just not.

Speaker 4 (00:55:54):

Yeah. No, it's not. But we do want a certain percentage of our students to actually do this. For real. That's the goal. We want to create professional engineers out of this. And one of the most hireable skills I guess, that you can have is to know how to set up a session properly that mixers will pay you for that. That will,

Speaker 3 (00:56:17):

It's not glamorous, but that's an entry point. That's an entry point. No other, you want to get your foot in the door, do that. It's better than cleaning the toilets.

Speaker 4 (00:56:26):

I cannot tell you how many mixes I set up for people for years and drums. I edited samples, I laid vocals, I tuned, I did that shit for

Speaker 3 (00:56:34):

All the annoying busy work, but that has to be done to a certain standard or else it's fucking useless.

Speaker 4 (00:56:41):

I think it's the same in movies too. I've heard that the best directors tend to come from the editing room, right?

Speaker 3 (00:56:50):

Right. It's you're working your way up, you're working your way up, and then they're like, whoa, you got some skills? Oh, that's kind of sick. That's a hundred percent true. Or it's like with touring, I always tell people like, yeah, you want to be in a touring band, go do merch for a band for free. You want to be on tour. That's how you could do it. Oh, my band can't get tours. Yeah, well go on tour. Just go and tech for someone for free, and then you'll be shocked how in two years you'll know everyone in the industry and everyone will know you, and you'll all of a sudden have all these opportunities. I've seen it happen. We've been there or we've done that for people. We've seen their growth over years. It's like, it's not the obvious path. It's not the glamorous path, but it fucking works,

Speaker 4 (00:57:34):

Dude. Is there really a glamorous path in this anymore?

Speaker 3 (00:57:38):

No, course not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Anyone who thinks there is just, you're just guaranteed disappointment. I think, again, this goes back to being realistic, setting realistic expectations and managing them. Because if you think that you get to be a rockstar, if you think you get any of what we do is glamorous, it's like you talk about being humble. Well, this industry is humbling. There's no room for those egos because of how humbling this industry is, and especially if you're doing rock and metal and stuff like that. It's really just it's passion stuff and there's less money in it than there ever was. So there's no glamorous wait. There's no glamorous point of entry, there's no glamorous lifestyle. You do it. You love it.

Speaker 4 (00:58:25):

Well said. So how do you feel about answering some questions from the crowd? Got a few. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:58:30):

They

Speaker 4 (00:58:30):

Were very excited. Totally. Totally. Cool. Cool. Alright, so here's one from Karten Sack, which is Misha. How do you approach writing MIDI instrument parts so that they sound nearly human and not like a robot playing a synth violin?

Speaker 3 (00:58:47):

Okay, well that's good. That's good. So he's talking about the orchestral stuff.

Speaker 4 (00:58:50):

Yeah,

Speaker 3 (00:58:51):

Yeah. I mean it's the same as you'd program drums or anything like that. Just in terms of the approach, it's just being very careful with the velocities, with all these sample libraries. It's very tempting. I'm sure you guys have seen this with drums because the loudest velocity always sounds sort of the most impactful. It's very tempting to just always go full velocity on everything. I think one thing to do is actually to not start at full velocity, maybe just short of it if you're going for something intense, but understanding that you want to have some headroom to be able to use for impacts and things like that. And then the other thing is just spending the time with it. I hate to say it, but speaking of unglamorous work, so much of what I do is just boring editing and tweaking and experimenting and sort of knowing what sound I'm going for.

(00:59:45):

And every library is different, so sometimes you won't get the result you want and you'll have to combine patches sometimes, for example, a violin legato patch, it sounds great on its own in the mix. It's just sounding kind of synthy. And so if you layer a pito patch with that, for example, you can sort of get that bow change effect a little bit and it'll actually cut through. But that's just one example, and I'm getting very, very specific here, but it's just that's good. It's spending the time with that kind of stuff and experimenting because there isn't any one solution. And I think a lot of people are looking for this sort of one size fits all answer. But you guys know as well as I do that a mix is a mix. And when you change one thing, everything else changes. So what worked in that last mix will not necessarily work in this mix, and you might have to find a new solution to that. So don't just go through the same process expecting to get the same result. You might have to branch out and try different things and don't be afraid to do that is the point. And don't be afraid to spend some time on it because all the stuff that sounds good did not happen quickly. I guarantee you a lot of time was put into that and a lot of careful thoughts, well spent time I would say was put into that. So that would be my advice.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):

I echo that. None of that stuff happens easily when it comes to virtual instruments. Here's one from Chick Henkel, which is Misha. What does your daily guitar practice regimen consist of? Is it scales, rhythms?

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):

I don't practice guitar. Man, I wish I did. This is going to get into a deeper philosophical thing here. I think when I was,

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):

I figured that figured you were going to say that

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):

When I was younger I practiced and I tried to, I've never had the mind for practice. I've always been more of a creative. So what would happen is I'd start trying to practice skills. I get bored out of my mind and I'd just start trying to write riffs. And I used to get really upset about that, but I'm starting to realize that maybe I'm not a technician. I'm really not. And I know so many people who on the technical side of things are just light years ahead of where I'm at. And that's okay because that's just not what I focus on. I like to write, I like to write, but if you want to be a technician, you can find all sorts of resources on YouTube online for free or paid to get that stuff. And being in a band with a guy like Nali who really is a technician and really the amount of detail that he puts into his technique is insane.

(01:02:28):

It's mind boggling. And that's stuff that he practices and works on. I would say take it to that level. But for me it's more about the creative side. And I've started to acknowledge that and stopped trying to force myself to practice because I am working on my technique, but I just realized that I'm just never going to be that guy. I'm never going to be that guy that you're going to watch and you're going to be like, wow, I want his technique. My technique's always going to hold me back a little bit. And that's what I work on it on. So it holds me back as little as possible, but I just don't enjoy practicing and I don't get anything out of it. The times I've forced myself to practice, it's like I'll get better at it for that day and then the next day it's like, if you don't maintain it, then it's all gone anyways.

(01:03:09):

And I was like, I didn't really get anything from that that didn't really do what I wanted it to do. But if I spend that time writing a song or writing an idea and I end up with something, I have something that I can look back at. So my pursuits now are more into the sort of abstract, just writing and trying to filter out what's good, what's worth working on, and trying to get over my weird insecurities with music and trying to write all that fun stuff that happens when you write a lot of music. But yeah, I haven't even been playing guitar that much lately. I've been getting so much pleasure from writing orchestral mockups and things like that that's really been tickling my fancy. So that's the stuff I've been practicing, if anything, and that I'll spend hours and hours doing without the hours will disappear. And if the hours are disappearing, then you're probably doing something that you enjoy. So that's kind of what I'm tending towards is things that I enjoy doing rather than things that I feel like I have to or probably should do.

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):

You'll always do a better job when we're talking about creative ventures with things that you get lost in

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):

As a general mantra, I'm going to share with you guys something that's really seems so stupid, but it's kind of important to me. And I will say that part of this is just because I'm fortunate enough to be where I'm at and in sort of a comfortable place for the time being, but as things stand now, I've realized that I don't have to do things I don't want to do. And there's a bit of, I think that myself and you guys, we'd consider ourselves hustlers. We've always had to hustle, we've always had to work. We've always had to do things we don't want to do just to build towards something bigger. But I think what I've learned is also after you've gotten to a certain point, you can actually afford it to yourself to take a step back and do the things you want to do and not have basically learn to say no, learn to say no to things.

(01:05:19):

I used to get this crippling guilt from saying no to things that I didn't want to do that I didn't need to do. I didn't need the money, I didn't need anything from it, but it was just this guilt because I came up from hustling, from saying yes to everything, working really hard, doing everything and realizing now, but that's a big battle. That was a big battle. And I'm finally starting to get the hang of it. But it's just sometimes you just say no. Sometimes you don't do the things you don't want to do if you don't have to. If there's no perceivable benefit, you don't have to do them. And that might sound weird to some of the listeners because maybe they don't have that same complex. Maybe I'm just crazy, but it's like

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):

I completely relate.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):

But yeah, so basically just saying no to things and this is the big picture answer of why I don't practice guitars much anymore to loop it all right back home. But yeah, I'm dead serious. That's something I think has made me a lot happier in recent times, is just doing the things that I want to do, doing the things that make me happy and trying to minimize having to do the things that don't make me happy. I only do them if I have to or if it's something that leads towards something bigger or something that will make me happy. So yeah,

Speaker 4 (01:06:37):

One thing that we've started doing very heavily is delegating those things so that we can focus. I know Joey delegates like crazy, I delegate like crazy. And this is so that we can focus on the things that we're best at so that we can keep our eye on the prize and we can keep things moving forward aggressively. The hustle is alive and well, but as you progress the things that you need to focus on in order to keep growing become harder and harder, higher level. And they take you being more in tune, I guess in a weird way, you're more in tune with the universe, I guess. And I don't know how to explain it

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):

To be No, I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. It's like you're kind of figuring it out. So it's like, oh yeah, this is the way I was supposed to be doing stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:07:28):

Yeah, exactly. And you can't be spending the same kind of time on the things you did before because then you'd be at the same level you were at before.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):

Well, there's only so many hours in the day. There's only so much energy. You need to focus that energy efficiently and delegating is a way to do it. But also the side you're not mentioning that is you need to have people that you can trust. You need to have people that delegating is useless if people won't do, if you can't trust the people because we

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):

Have a great team.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):

Exactly, exactly. I'm sure you do. And it's same. That's why my band, it is a certain group of people and the companies we have are, it's all very calculated because everyone kind of focuses on their strengths and doesn't have to focus on things they're not as great at or they don't enjoy doing. And then everything sort of works and everyone can put their best energy towards things that are productive.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):

And I hate practicing guitar too.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):

Me too. That's the point. That's all you need to walk away with. I hate practicing not going to do it next.

Speaker 4 (01:08:30):

Alright, here's one from Brad Thomas, which is when writing for a band with three guitars, how do you usually split up the responsibility IE who gets the main riff and who provides more of the ear candy?

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):

So we get that question a lot. I think what people may not fully understand is that the three guitar thing is really a live thing. Because when I was writing and when we were starting out and when you have the power of a computer which has all the tracks that your imagination can muster, you can get sent kind of crazy. And I was doing a lot of stuff where there'd be a lot more than three guitar parts going on. So it was the idea that even with backing tracks, there'd be sort of substantial parts or parts that we wish we wouldn't have to put on a backing track. So generally whoever writes the riff gets dibs on how they want to or what part they want. It's never been a problem. It's really just never been a problem. I'm very lucky to have Mark and Jake being the kind of people that they are.

(01:09:33):

We write so well together. People always ask if there's ego there or if we battle and it's like, no, there's relief when I work with them. I got two guys who've got my back who write the sickest rifts that I could never come up with, but that are totally in the style that I am writing and we've influenced each other. So it's just this big old circle jerk basically. And everyone's really open to whatever. We all play rhythm parts, clean parts, lead parts, whatever. No moms are calling being like, ah, my son needs more solo time or anything like that.

(01:10:13):

It's just whatever. It always seems to work out really easily. So it's not something that I think about or that I think they think about. Either it is something that we can just trust that happened to work out, it'll be fine. But it really is just a live thing and live, it'll either be we're playing three completely different parts or something I like very much is that two people will be playing one part and that will be panned. So it's double tracked. And then the other person will be playing whatever part that is, whether it's a lead, clean, ambient, whatever. And then there's also unison parts, which are very cool because you almost get that quad tracked coring effect that you get. It just makes it sound very sort of thick in a very unique way. So I really like having those guys live to play around with and it just gives us a lot of options with how we're going to approach things live.

Speaker 4 (01:11:06):

Totally. So here's one from Zalen ra. Man, I'm so sorry, I can't pronounce your last name.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):

It always happens, man.

Speaker 4 (01:11:18):

I'll just go with that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):

We're trying. We're trying man.

Speaker 4 (01:11:22):

So could you go over peripheries in your monitor system for practice and stage? Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):

That

Speaker 4 (01:11:28):

Would be incredible. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):

So we're using a Beringer X 32 rack unit, which is pretty awesome. I never thought I'd be stoked on Beringer stuff, especially from when I was starting out. This stuff wasn't so great, but this mixer is awesome. You can control it with an iPad and it has enough Subm mixes that all six of us can, well now there's five, but back when there were six of us, all six of us could control our own mixes using an iPhone or an iPad or whatever. And market's our front of house guy, Alex Mar's, he could actually mix us. He actually did mix us for a bunch of tours off that. So it was like our all in one system. It was great. Since then, we've been renting boards just because it sounds better and it's better for him, but it's kind of nice that you can do that and for sort of fly rigs, that's amazing.

(01:12:23):

It's everything we need right there. So that then has to go to in ear monitors, which we have the Sennheiser EEW 300 G two I think is what it's called. It's basically what everyone uses and we got those, I want to say God four years ago maybe, maybe longer, and we're using the same ones. They're just super, super reliable and they work great. So that's what actually transmits the sound from our mix to our ears. And then for the in ears, I think we're pretty much all using 1964 years, or no, they're called 64 years now, but I'm using the A six. And so basically those are molded in ears for people who don't know. So they're also earplugs because you really should protect your ears and given how much I'm mixing, producing and all that stuff, I really can't afford to lose my ears.

(01:13:17):

So it protect your ears and it'll also give you a very, very clear sound and allow you to have a lot in your mix. And I have my own individual mix. That's exactly the way that I need it with the click, which we all have, we all have a click and it's actually a very detailed click. Matt, our drummer, turned us onto that where we have it doing the 16th note or eighth note subdivision so you really know where the beat is. But the accents are always a little different, so you can always tell exactly where the beat is. We just found that it helps us fight smart, it helps us play tight. Very, yeah, he loves it. He loves that. I think it helps him kind push and pull on the beat a bit more because he never really has to guess exactly where the beat is. But it's great for us. It helps us lock in and then everyone has complete control over how their mix, because we're using Ax Xes and because most of the aspects are consistent, our mixes are generally consistent, but you will catch us occasionally changing stuff on the fly on our phones or iPads or whatever. And it's great to have that freedom if something's not quite right that day for whatever reason.

Speaker 4 (01:14:29):

Cool. Alright, so Tyler Rodriguez is asking, what would you say are your influences on your orchestral writing? Any specific movie scores and or composers?

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):

I'd say the only composer that's been a real influence, probably like Nabu Matsu from my final fantasy series.

Speaker 4 (01:14:47):

That's great stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):

Yeah. Other than that, it's probably just passive stuff. I've just been kind of going head first. Again, I'm not the read the manual guy, I'm going to go head first and try and figure this out for myself and I don't really know what I'm going for. I'm just kind of playing around with a lot of that stuff. So I'm sure I have passive influences and I listened to a lot of classical music when I grew up, but what I'd call the pop classical composers like Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, stuff like that. But yeah, I don't think I'm thinking about any of those influences other than maybe Nobu, but that's only for certain things if I'm trying to do something like very RPG style. Other than that, it's more like having this sort of world. Actually I'm going to expand on this a little bit because this is something I've wanted to tell people why I'm into this orchestral stuff.

(01:15:44):

This is probably more of an influence. This is actually probably the influence back in 2002, that's when I first started recording and I had a gaming computer and I realized that it was finally powerful enough that I could record on it and not have to go to a studio to get my ideas out. And I had a drum kid from hell, which I ran in reason. I didn't know anything about dolls or anything like that. I was just, again, not reading the manual, just kind of figuring stuff out for myself and having fun. And that to me was the most inspiring thing in the world that all of a sudden I at no cost to myself could make all this music by myself. And sure it didn't sound great or whatever, but it was mine and I could do it whenever I wanted. I could do it in my apartment without bothering anyone.

(01:16:32):

I could do it on headphones. That to me was incredible and inspired the crap out of ideas and that's why I wrote so much. I'd been feeling a little bit uninspired as of late. Well, as of about a year and a half ago, I want to say I'd just been feeling kind of dry on ideas. It happens, we go through ebb and flows as creative people, but I discovered that now we were at the point where you could get very realistic orchestral mockups on your computer and you didn't need an insane setup. You used to have to chain computers together with Via ensemble. But it is like now technology I finally caught up to, and it was basically the advent of SSDs allowed you to stream these libraries off. It doesn't take up a lot of ram, it takes up CPU power, but CPUs are powerful enough that it catches up.

(01:17:23):

So we're at this point where all of a sudden it becomes accessible and it it's just money. It's a lot of money unfortunately. But it was like that was so exciting to me. It's like now an orchestra, which is something that's extremely expensive, extremely, extremely expensive. I could mock that up on my computer for fun whenever I want. And that was that same level of inspiration that I felt back in 2002. It was like this new world had been opened up and I knew nothing about it. I still know very little about it. I'm just trying to learn. So my inspiration is that I've discovered this new world for myself and I'm just trying to learn what it is for myself. And

Speaker 4 (01:17:58):

That's it. And just so people understand what you mean by extremely expensive, a C rate orchestra will cost you approximately 20 grand a day to rent. I guess

Speaker 3 (01:18:12):

If you want to get, that's I record. And that's in the studio, by the way. That's just the orchestra. That's just the orchestra. And considering that we recorded periphery three, I think the entire budget just for the recording was probably under 10 grand. It's like, well just the orchestra would be double or triple that. It's pretty nuts.

(01:18:36):

This is a great solution. And what we did on pre free three, which was great, was we then hired a very small section of musicians to play what I'd programmed over certain parts. And we layered it because these sample libraries that I was using, they're huge, huge sections. So you get the sense of the size, but then the realistic small sections layered over the top gave you that layer of realism and made it not sound like any particular sample library. So it's kind of best of both worlds. And that did not cost us very much money. So that was kind of our way around that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):

I want to shout out my friend Trevor Fidel, who helped me do tons of string parts over the years. Really cool guy. His email is trevor dot [email protected]. If you guys are trying to do what Misha is talking about, I've done the same thing. Basically layer it up with virtual instruments and then get Trevor to have a small three or four piece, put the reel stuff over top of it and it works so well. And he's

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):

Kind of incredible how well it works, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):

And he's set up to where you can just send him your tracks and just say, here's what I want you to play. And then he also will include a freestyle. He'll get, he works with the students. I can't remember the college that he works with, but he'll have the students come in, they'll play all the parts as you want them to, and then they'll also do a little freestyle for each instrument. And sometimes those freestyle parts are really cool.

Speaker 3 (01:20:11):

That's awesome. Actually, we worked with this guy, Randy Slaw, who he did the periphery two, just that violin part in the beginning of have a blast. But we kept him in mind and he came in at the last minute on periphery three and did such a great job in so little time. It was just kind of a last minute like, Hey, do you think you can do this? He's like, oh, I'm going to try. But I think he works with students as well and he did such a great job, especially given that a lot of the parts that I was writing were not really conducive to being played on orchestral instruments because it's based around guitarists and Drop sea. It's like he had to find some talent to get it done. But that's definitely what you're talking about, Joey is definitely the kind of setup that is sort of a cost-effective way to get the best of both worlds.

Speaker 4 (01:21:02):

Yeah. Alright, here's one from Eduardo Panda ra, which is for the new record. As far as I remember, you used a Freedman B 100 sim in the ax effects. How do you approach that plexi styled amp to sound so brutal.

Speaker 3 (01:21:19):

I think that I have to give all the credit to the ax effects on that one. It might have been, I was on Quantum 1.0 that was the firmware and the amps always change a little bit with the firmware, but I actually left one at that firmware because the Freedman model sounds so good. I actually have the real Freedman next to me right now, so it's kind of funny. But there's something about the ax effects where it's like it has a character of the amp, but it's sort of a hyperreal version of the Amp and that works really well for peripheries, this very sort of clean version of the Amp. And we didn't even use a boost for that. It was kind of interesting. It was kind of a test to ourselves because we've always used the boost in front of an amp always. And even live, we still do that.

(01:22:05):

But for the record, in that control environment, we were just trying to see if we could dial the amp in and just pick really hard. And we were using my Jackson guitars and those have my bare knuckle juggernaut pickups, which are just very good. They're designed so that if you pick hard, they'll sound very, very good. So I think the combination of all of that and just picking really hard worked well, but I think it's probably, I have to give most of the credit to Fractal because they killed it with that firmware and that version of that amp. And the other thing that I think a lot of people don't really realize, but I know for a fact that you guys know, is that so much of what people consider to be guitar tone is the cab or the cab sim or whatever. And that exact patch with any other cab might not work in the mix.

(01:22:59):

But the cab that we were using, or the cab sim I should say that we were using is great. It's from that cab pack I did with them Cab Pack 13, Misha Mix eight, that one just was magical. It just sat in the mix perfectly. It worked. We didn't have to do much EQ or anything to that guitar tone. I think it was kind of cool because we wanted periphery three to be a bit more of a raw album, less, I'd say Juggernaut had a lot of, it was a very processed album. It was just like, how huge can we get this to sound? And we use samples where we need to and edit the crap out of everything. This one was a very raw album and a lot of the takes are very raw and the approach to the guitar tone was, so we were trying to see how little we could get away with. So the fact that the guitar tone on periphery three, I could just describe to you right now, it's the Freeman be 100 amp model on there with the bright switch on everything at noon, I think gain was at six and maybe we rolled off the bass a little bit. And it's just the Cab pack 13, Misha Mix eight, that's it. That's periphery. Three guitar tone right there.

Speaker 4 (01:24:12):

Nice. Okay. Here's one from Diego Cas, which is what was the most helpful advice you received in relation to mixing and production? What gave you the most major improvements once implemented?

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):

Oh man. I don't think there's a thing. I don't don't think, and Ali and I have had these discussions that there isn't a thing. It's all very small moves. And what Nali told me is he's worked with a lot of producers and met a lot producers that he respects and engineers that he respects. And some of them have shown him session files and mixes of things that he really likes, and he could actually see what was going on under the hood. And he said there was no part where there was this aha or this moment of like, oh, there's this crazy thing that he's doing differently. A lot of it had to do with just how you're capturing the source tones and just small moves, little moves that nudge it in a certain direction. And there are little tricks here and there, but none of them are sort of these night and day tricks that all of a sudden I didn't get it yesterday and I get it today. So that's my answer is there isn't something like that. And if you're chasing something like that, you're doing it wrong, in my opinion. You should be.

Speaker 4 (01:25:34):

I completely agree actually.

Speaker 3 (01:25:36):

Yeah, I figured you guys would agree too, because you probably have come to the same conclusion that there's no secret, magic, happy button. It's little calculated moves and experience. And the most important thing is, I think we all know, is just your source tone. All the processing in the world doesn't count for a goddamn thing if your source tone sucks. So get it right at the source and understand how to capture a source tone.

Speaker 4 (01:26:06):

I feel like that right there, in my opinion would be the answer to the question. What's the one thing that has made all the difference instantly? It's get your fucking So Stones, right?

Speaker 3 (01:26:18):

Yeah, you're absolutely right. But what that is is a long time consuming process. That's something that you have to figure out what works for you, because again, there's no one way to capture a source tone correctly. And even if there is, it's probably not exactly what you want. And it's a disservice to yourself to resign yourself to some system that someone else set up that was right for them. What you should be doing, in my opinion, is finding out what works for you. Use their setup as a guideline, but find out what works for you and find out what you want to do and refine your process. I've seen Nali do this over the, I'm not the mixing guy, I am the creative guy, but I've watched Ali obsess over this for years now. Everyone sees he's mixing all these big albums. It's great for him. But I watched this process start from when he was first mixing on a laptop, asking me for mixing advice and how it's just sort of snowballed from there into what it is now. And it's all just very small steps, very small steps. And before you know it, I'm going to him being like, Hey, teach me how to mix. I suck,

Speaker 4 (01:27:28):

Dude. He's a monster, by the way.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):

He's an absolute monster. He's an absolute monster, but it's not an accident. He practices all the goddamn time and it's what he's obsessed with on the tour. He would just be on his laptop just mixing, I believe it, testing, checking out, showing me the differences between the aliasing, between this EQ plugin and how this spectrum shows this. And it's like crazy the amount of detail that he goes into. But then he uses all that information. So musically you'd think like, oh, he is just being clinical. No, he keeps that little information in the back of his head so that he can make educated decisions about the sound. He'll set these weird experiments. He'll try to do a mix just with slate plugins. He won't keep it, but he's learning what that does, and that's in the back of his head. And then if he has a problem, he's like, oh, well, have you ever thought I go to him with a problem? I'm like, man, I can't get this that many. And he'll come with this weird abstract idea that I'm like, that's really clever. How the hell did you think of doing that? And it's literally just because he is experimented with just about everything at this point. So that's the answer. Spend a shit load of time and be obsessed.

Speaker 4 (01:28:38):

I got to say, man, we've done 13 nail the mix month already, and they're always cool. I always learn something. We've had some great, great people on, but the one that Nali did man in September, God damn, he is heavy. Yeah, he's meticulous. Yeah, he's got some knowledge.

Speaker 3 (01:29:01):

He does, he does. But again, this is not, I feel like so many people are so quick to write it off as like, oh, he is just smarter, or I'm telling you, I've watched this motherfucker work. The amount of work

Speaker 4 (01:29:15):

That

Speaker 3 (01:29:15):

He put into it is why he's good. It's not because he's better because he's got a better ear for that, or it's like he does have a great ear for it, but you wouldn't get to the level that he's at just off of that. No one would. He's put in so much goddamn work, and that's why he knows as much as he does, and he uses that knowledge to benefit his ear. He's still, at the end of the day, he still trusts his ears. That's the number one thing that he does. He just has all this knowledge to back it up

Speaker 4 (01:29:47):

And that he does. Okay. Here's one from Jordan and Beton, which is from the armory of Pedals you own. Which one do you find yourself coming back to over and over?

Speaker 3 (01:30:00):

Does it have to be just one?

Speaker 4 (01:30:02):

No. How about which ones do you find

Speaker 3 (01:30:05):

Yourself? Yeah, okay. Yeah. So Caroline Guitar Company has this delay called the Kilobyte. You can actually probably hear that all over P three and maybe Juggernaut. They have it for juggernaut, but it's got this cool button that makes it self oscillate. It's a great sounding delay. It's a great sounding delay. I always find myself using that same thing with the free Theone flight time. There's just something about that just is so sick. Oh, and the Catalent Bread Echo wreck, I love delays. The after by Earthquaker devices is just absolutely nuts. I've never really played an effect that's quite like, it's basically using all these super cut up, I guess, granular delays to create a big long reverb. It's a really, really cool effect. It's just so well done. And I've yet to play another pedal that really nails what it does. And actually, on an interesting point, walrus audio put out this overdrive called the 3 85, which is, I

Speaker 4 (01:31:05):

Like that company name

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):

Walrus Audio. Oh, they make great pedal, they make great pedals. But this overdrive is not a tube screamer style overdrive. It's more like one that it makes your amp sound like an old vintage cranked amp. And I got this Marshall hand wired amp recently, which is sweet, but it's literally the only controls are volume and tone. It's just a clean amp, but it loves pedals. And that 3 85 in front of that Marshall is a really special sound. And also, I haven't been able to talk about this for a while. I got this in secret for a little bit, but way huge sent me the conquistador fuzz, their fuzz extortion pedal. And I've been jamming that a lot. I just haven't been able to tell anyone about it. I guess I was kind of beta testing it, but there was nothing wrong with mine, so it was good. But yeah, those are the ones I've been playing with a lot lately. I've been having some fun with Fuzz, which is kind of a new thing. I never thought I'd be into Fuzz, but I don't know. They're fun.

Speaker 4 (01:32:10):

I agree. Alright, here's one from Adam Barnes, which is what guitars, pickups, amp Sims do you recommend for guitarist who's chasing a select difficulty rhythm tone?

Speaker 3 (01:32:21):

Well, all I can recommend is what we used. So we use the Fractal X effects. I literally just detailed earlier the exact ax effects tone. You can get that

Speaker 1 (01:32:29):

Exact

Speaker 3 (01:32:30):

Tone on the X effects. So just listen to that. And if you've been listening, you already probably took that down. The guitar guitars, because we're at my studio, we were using my Jackson Juggernauts, which have the bare knuckle juggernaut pickups in them. And what else did he want to know?

Speaker 4 (01:32:46):

Well, I think you covered it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:47):

Yeah, I think that's it.

Speaker 4 (01:32:48):

Yeah, you covered it. Okay. So Yatin Sava, what advice would you give a band that is negotiating a deal with a label? And what are the advantages, disadvantages of label support?

Speaker 3 (01:33:01):

Oh, well, we talked about half of that.

Speaker 4 (01:33:04):

We covered that half of that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:33:05):

The advantages and disadvantages of label support nowadays are very different. It's like we're in an era where they don't have as much to offer. They used to. I mean, if you think about a label is supposed to be selling your stuff, but really physical sales have gone down a lot like vinyls up. But you can negotiate a vinyl deal with as a separate thing. You don't need to give up your master's for that. I'd say once again, know what you want, understand the climate that you're entering and make sure you're getting something worthwhile. What are you giving up? Try to understand what you're giving up. I know nothing about this person's deal or this situation, but try to understand what you're giving up to get what you're getting there is, to be perfectly honest, as much as I hate to admit it, there still is a sense of a little X factor or pizazz or something of having label support, even if it means absolutely fucking nothing at all.

(01:34:02):

There's something about it that just gives you an extra edge. And I think labels are going to use that to their advantage. But even that, the industry's slow to change, but it is starting to catch up. Yeah, what is the point of labels anymore? They need to offer something. And I've always thought that labels and management would start to converge. They'd both realize that they don't offer enough individually to be able to charge what they do, but that together, it might be a worthwhile thing. And I think you see some labels that aren't starting to lean towards that, but just make sure you're getting something worthwhile because yeah, you could probably release it yourself, put it up on core to get up on iTunes, put it up on Band Camp front, the cost of some CDs and vinyl yourself and sell those. And it's like, would a label be doing anything more? They might be doing something more, but would they be doing enough to justify what you're giving them? Would they be tripling the amount of sales that you're getting? I don't know. I somehow sincerely doubt that. So it's a tricky one.

Speaker 4 (01:35:14):

Be smart. Yeah, I completely agree. So here's one from Ricky Whiteout. Well, two questions from Ricky Whiteout. Number one, do you see yourself doing film and or video game scores in the future? And number two, can we expect more top secret audio lessons, like the drum programming one sometime in the future?

Speaker 3 (01:35:33):

So the first one's video games, movies. I'd love to, I think what people don't understand is that people need to hire me for that. I'm slowly trying to chip away at that. I've had some opportunities, but it's not like I can just go knocking down on their door and be like, Hey, I'm ready to do video games and movies. They'll be like, oh, come right along. I'm a nobody. I have arrived. I'm a nobody in that world. I'm trying to slowly make a name for myself, but I'm also trying to get better at that stuff. So if you're listening, you want to hire me for a video game or a movie and notice my word, I said hire. That doesn't mean do anything on spec, but unless it's a huge project, in which case I'll totally do it on spec. But yeah, feel free to hire me for the lessons, the top secret audio stuff.

(01:36:21):

I mean, that's something that I tried out, and I think the better way to do that is through the live streams. I've had a better response through all the livestream stuff, so I might explore that. But again, there's only so many hours in the day and I have to kind of use my time wisely and not forget to give myself some downtime like I did in the last month and made myself very miserable. So I just have to be careful with that. But there will be more educational content coming out. I'll say that much one way or another.

Speaker 4 (01:36:54):

Okay. Jack Hartley's asking, when you experience writer's block, how do you deal with it? Are you the type of person that writes constantly or do you have to be particularly inspired?

Speaker 3 (01:37:04):

No, I definitely need to be inspired. And when I force it, it usually doesn't work out well. There's a bunch of different ways to approach it. I just sometimes just take time off. I do other things. I do anything but music. And then when you go back to it, it's like, oh yeah, this whole thing and it's fresh again. But I've learned not to force it. I've learned to have fun with it. You want to be having fun when you're doing it. It shows otherwise. So find your system. If it's like you're having a writer's block on a certain part, or if you're blocked at a certain part, Ali gave me this one tip, which I thought was great, which was like, think of everything that you definitely wouldn't do. What definitely wouldn't come next, what definitely wouldn't be the next riff. And then you can sort of narrow it down because sometimes the sense of option paralysis is what sort of manifests itself as writer's block.

(01:38:00):

And when you have the power of a computer and everything, I can make any style of music I want in front of me on my computer, that can be what's sort of blocking the creativity. So trying to find ways around that can help. Maybe giving yourself some weird limitation or finding some arbitrary way to define what you're about to do. You want it to be this vibe or that vibe or only use these instruments or whatever. That can be a good way to spark it. But if it's not happening, don't force it. That's my advice.

Speaker 4 (01:38:32):

Completely agree. Alright, here's one from Colin Mge, which is in the early days starting out, how did you go about finding musicians that had skills you sought for in musicians, but also aligned with your musical vision's goals? Was it purely friend referrals or did you make connections through some further education? Or did you use social media to reach out? Did you go through people that conflicted with your visions and goals before you ended up with the crew you have today? And if so, what difficulties did you have to overcome during any personal transitions and how did you overcome them, basically? What's your whole life story?

Speaker 3 (01:39:07):

Yeah. Well, I mean the funny thing is the answer to most of that is yes, it was all of that. It was everything. It's really fucking hard to find band members. And the first band I was ever in was only one other band before periphery, and it was called Bulb, and it was in Toronto, and it was my best friend at the time. And it was that classic thing of he wanted to go in one direction, I wanted to go another. It fell apart at the seams and we haven't talked since, I don't think, not that I hold anything against the guys, it's just that's the way I guess it worked out. And we went our separate ways. But it made me sort of realize like, Hey, maybe you should just do it yourself. You have the tools to do it yourself. And in putting my music out, then people were coming to me already understanding what it was.

(01:39:54):

So that was no longer a conversation. It was like, Hey, I know what you're going for. I understand what you're going for, but it's still difficult to find people that you gel with. My advice is just don't settle. It's a very long, arduous process and we have a good lineup. But it took a very, very, very long time and it took a few member changes to even get to that point. It's hard. And the reason is is because you don't know if you're good off the road. What are you like on the road? Well, you won't find out until you start touring. What do you like in the studio? What do you like in this situation? Until you've sort of encountered all these situations, you won't really know. And then the other half is the attitude. I'm so thankful to have a band that is introspective.

(01:40:39):

When we have problems, we talk about 'em and we come out stronger because everyone is like, no one is like, okay, my shit doesn't think if someone's doing something that annoys someone else, the attitude is like, oh shit, I made someone I really love and care about, feel bummed out with something I did. I don't want to do that anymore. I'm really going to work on that. And with a different type of personality that could easily escalate into a well, oh, okay, that's how it is. Well then fuck you, I'm out. And I think that's what does happen a lot, but a little bit by design. But I'm glad that it's worked out this way. My band members are all like that. They're introspective. They're open to working on themselves. I've had that conversation with people. I've been the recipient of that conversation. We've all had to work on our personalities and we are all trying to make this work as a relationship.

(01:41:30):

So finding people who want to work with you both musically and personally, and I would put a big emphasis on personally because that's such a big thing that no one else sees, but that you have to deal with every day in very confined spaces. That's the trick. And it's just, again, knowing what you want, knowing what you're going for, and making sure that you're communicating at all points so that you minimize the amount of problems that you have. And you don't let stupid things like resentment build up and explode into stupid fights. But it's been a learning process, man. We're getting better at it too. So

Speaker 4 (01:42:09):

Here's one from Sasha Vino, which is, you say that you play your guitar di until you're rolling in Moog since a lot of the times. It sounds awesome. Do you know any software syns that can do that? I hate program guitar solos into midi.

Speaker 3 (01:42:24):

I don't know that that's accurate. I don't put my guitar di into the synths.

Speaker 4 (01:42:30):

Sasha Vino Hass been smoking the funny Grass.

Speaker 3 (01:42:33):

What I do, what I do is I'll some lead lines. I'll program what I played on guitar and double that. But yeah, I don't, I think you can, but it would just be to run the guitar through the filter or something like that of the Moog, but I don't do that. Sorry. Sorry, pal. Sorry,

Speaker 4 (01:42:54):

Sasha. Well, actually we have a question that kind of takes that a little further about that from Joe Trumble, which he says, Misha, a gigantic fan of periphery and would like to congratulate you on the Grammy Nod nomination. I have my own opinion on the Grammys, but it's fantastic to see incredible music recognized by the mainstream. I've noticed from the remaining indoor doc and such that you have made a habit of tucking since under some leads, like some kind of magical sauce. Could you elaborate what kind of processing goes into this as well as what synths you're using?

Speaker 3 (01:43:29):

So yeah, on periphery three, I had just gotten a sub 37 and Mogue sub 37 really just to learn more about synthesis. But damn thing sounds so good always that we just kind of put it when we're writing, it's just like, Hey, you have an idea, try it out. What's the worst that could happen? And every time we would try it, it was just like everyone was like, yeah, that sounds way better. And it would sort of fatten up leads and just add this quality to it that was just very pleasant to the ears. So that synth found its way onto pretty much every song on the album. Also, I got a Corg mini log later in the process, so that was on there as well, just to get sort of a different sound. And that's a poly synth. The sub 37 can only do one note at a time.

(01:44:15):

The mini log can do four, and we are also using soft synths and stuff like that. But the truth is, I mean, you can get good sounds with anything, but it's great when you have something that just sort of works. And that mode just worked. It was just like we could focus just on creative. We really didn't have to do much processing. Sometimes we'd run that through the ax effects and get guitar style tones or delays or whatever going on it or make it super ambient sounding. But whatever we did, it always seemed to just compliment the sounds and the music very well. So we just experimented and had some fun with it.

Speaker 4 (01:44:51):

I've done that quite a bit as well. And I feel like my favorite mixes are ones that have very unique textures

Speaker 3 (01:45:01):

And

Speaker 4 (01:45:01):

There's just something magical that happens when you start layering sounds that you're familiar with new kinds of sounds.

Speaker 3 (01:45:10):

Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:45:12):

Yeah. Layering a rhythm line with a distorted synth or a lead with a synth, or it's almost the same idea as having a parallel compression on the snare. A really distorting

Speaker 3 (01:45:25):

Compressed

Speaker 4 (01:45:25):

Snare. It adds texture and you could call it ear candy or whatnot, but it just makes recordings better.

Speaker 3 (01:45:33):

Well, here's the interesting thing is that in a lot of these things, you might not realize that there's the synth there, but if I were to mute it, you'd definitely hear that something got lost. There was something that's missing. And that's the thing you're not hearing necessarily just the synth or just the guitar, but it's like that combination, like you were saying, that's a very pleasant sound. And so we've just been experimenting with that and playing around with that because again, what's the worst that can happen? It sucks and you don't use it.

Speaker 4 (01:46:03):

That's right. Which is not that big a deal.

Speaker 3 (01:46:05):

Not that big a deal.

Speaker 4 (01:46:06):

Nope. So Misha, I want to thank you so much for coming on, being so generous with your time and so open with your answers. It's been fantastic talking to you.

Speaker 3 (01:46:18):

Yeah, man. No thanks. It's been an absolute pleasure. Sorry for talking your ear off for almost two hours now.

Speaker 2 (01:46:24):

Well, that's actually the secret to a podcast is that now I don't have to talk and you can talk.

Speaker 3 (01:46:29):

Yeah, exactly. I'll do all the talking for you. It's not a problem at all.

Speaker 2 (01:46:35):

I'm sure people wanted to hear what you had to say more than me anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:46:40):

And you're kind of sick, Joey. I don't want you to ruin. You sound sick. You probably need to take some medicine or something. You've been sick for like a week now.

Speaker 2 (01:46:52):

Yeah, the don't go to Vegas when 400,000 people go to Vegas.

Speaker 4 (01:46:55):

Yo,

Speaker 2 (01:46:56):

That's all I

Speaker 4 (01:46:56):

Can

Speaker 3 (01:46:56):

Say. Do you take zinc every day?

Speaker 2 (01:46:58):

Yeah, I am taking zinc right now.

Speaker 3 (01:46:59):

Oh man. I've been taking zinc every night before I go to bed for the last three years. I don't know if it's a placebo effect or not, but I just don't get sick anymore. And it's like,

Speaker 2 (01:47:10):

No, that's real stuff, man. That's real. Zinc is very powerful

Speaker 3 (01:47:16):

Because I used to get sick, not often, but when I'd get sick, I'd get sick for a week and now the worst I'll get is a sore throat for a day or two and it's gone, but it doesn't matter. Tour traveling, whatever. So I just take that stuff religiously and I take it before bed because it used to kind of upset my stomach. If I take it even with a meal, it would just make me feel nauseous. But if I take it before bed, if you're lying horizontally, you don't even have to go to sleep. But as long as you're lying horizontally, it could be on an empty stomach, you'd be fine. So I just take it before bed every night and it is helped me out. So that's a little tip for Joey. Little tip for everyone else who I should start a zinc company. Yeah, totally. You're on it. Anyways, thanks so much for having me, guys. It's a lot of fun. Thanks for coming on, dude. Of course. See you.

Speaker 1 (01:48:07):

This episode of the Unstoppable Recording Machine podcast is brought to you by Joey Sturgiss tones, creating unique audio tools for musicians and producers everywhere. Unleash your creativity with Joey sturgiss tones. Visit joey sturges tones.com for more info. To ask us questions, make suggestions and interact. Visit URM Academy podcast and.