JOEL WANASEK: Firing Your Band, Creative Marketing, and How to Get Signed

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Welcome to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast. And now your host, Eyal Levi. Welcome to the URM Podcast. Thank you so much for being here. It's crazy to think that we are now on our seventh year. Don't ask me how that all just flew by, but it did. Man. Time moves fast, and it's only because of you, the listeners, if you'd like us to stick around another seven years and there's a few simple things you can do that would really, really help us out, I would endlessly appreciate if you would, number one, share our episodes with your friends. Number two, post our episodes on your Facebook and Instagram, and tag me at al Levi URM audio and at URM Academy, and of course our guest. And number three, leave us reviews and five star reviews wherever you can. We especially love iTunes reviews. Once again, thank you for all the years and years of loyalty.

(00:01:01):

I just want you to know that we will never charge you for this podcast, and I will always work as hard as possible to improve the episodes in every single way. All we ask in return is a share a post and tag us. Oh, and one last thing. Do you have a question you would like me to answer on an episode? I don't mean for a guest. I mean for me, it can be about anything. Email it to [email protected]. That's EYAL at M dot A-C-A-D-E-M-Y. There's no.com on that. It's exactly the way I spelled it. And use the subject line Answer me Eyal. Alright, let's get on with it. Welcome to our October Discord q and a with myself and the one and only Joel Wanasek. I hope all of you in the audience are doing great. At the bottom of my screen, there's a hand icon for raising your hand. So raise your hand, get in line, and you'll ask Joel your question. Joel, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:02:00):

I'm great. How are you?

Speaker 1 (00:02:01):

Good. Very good. Glad I'd be doing this.

Speaker 2 (00:02:04):

Do you like my avatar?

Speaker 1 (00:02:06):

Yeah, I do. I do very, very much. Can't taste it through the internet though.

Speaker 2 (00:02:11):

You definitely can't.

Speaker 1 (00:02:12):

No. So I have no way of knowing if it's good, but I believe it's got to be with the amount of fucking time you put into that shit. It's got to be

Speaker 2 (00:02:21):

Do you want to do something right? You got to

Speaker 1 (00:02:23):

Do? I'm going to be really disappointed if at some point I try it and it tastes like shit. Aren't

Speaker 2 (00:02:30):

You a vegetarian?

Speaker 1 (00:02:31):

Yeah, but I'm just saying if at some point

Speaker 2 (00:02:33):

If you were to break the code

Speaker 1 (00:02:35):

Yeah, and try it and it'll like I'd really, I drug you bumed out. Yeah. Just depends. I'm going to open mind a guy who knows. Anyways, let's get to questions up first is Mr. Philip self welcome, Philip, what's your question?

Speaker 3 (00:02:53):

As someone who's just now getting into this, I've got some stuff lined up with a client, some potential clients in a genre that I don't really enjoy doing, and so I'm just kind curious, what's been your experience working in genres you don't enjoy? Is that something you do just to get the money in and then eventually you build up a reputation where you get to choose clients? Or is that just part of the job?

Speaker 2 (00:03:12):

Great question. I love this question and I have a lot to say on it because I would say that 80% of my career producing bands was working on stuff that I normally wouldn't listen to and definitely didn't like. So I want you to think about what you're saying for a second. So I always look back and think to myself, why did I get into music? So a band shows up in my studio, okay, I don't get it. I remember I had one of those, remember 2009, 10 when these scene kid emo acoustic guitar with autotune electronic production band kind of thing showed up as a guy who grew up listening to nineties Death metal. I was like, what the fuck is this? When it showed up in my door, I was so shocked. I'm like, man, we would've gotten beat up when I was a kid, but I'm going to leave it right there.

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So I was listening to these kids play and they couldn't, and they're like, dude, we can't sing at all. We don't have any talent, but we're just going to get on the mic and just Auto-Tune it. I'm like, what the fuck? Part of me is I can't believe this. This is a disaster. What am I going to do? Why am I doing this project? Why did I agree to this? And the other part of me is like, okay, this is about to become a thing. I need to understand this. So on those days when a band comes in that where you're just kind of like, holy shit, I hate this genre. I hate everything about it. I hate how it looks. I hate how it sounds. I literally hate it. I think to myself, I could be working at a fucking bank doing something I truly hate, or I could be doing music every day for a living.

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So then when I put myself back in that mental spot that I was in at that time, I find myself looking back and then feeling fucking joy because I realized that no, I get to do music today. This is cool. So then I shift my mind and then what I think to myself is I say, okay, well, I don't like this band offset, right? I'm not interested in this kind of style of music, but what if I tried to like it? And what if I tried to get it? Because obviously somebody out there gets it. For example, when dubstep came out, I thought it was the dumbest sounding thing I'd ever fucking heard. I was like, what is this dumb shit that people are into? Why is this blowing up? And I listened to it and I listened to it, and I listened to it for three weeks, forced myself, and then I started to hate it less and less and less.

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And then I finally understood it and I'm like, oh, okay. I understand why people think this goes hard. This is pretty sick. I think the best advice I can give you is to look at it as a challenge to find something in that sound or style of band because it's inevitable. You have to take the money. You know what I mean? You don't get to pick and choose what you work on, and God forbid you blow up on a band, something you work on that gets really famous, and then you have 50 other bands that all want that fucking sound. And you start like a thing and you're the guy for that thing and you're like, man, I really don't like this style or sound, but you're the dude. So that could happen to you very, very quickly. So like I said, it's very, very important to look at this as a challenge to embrace and to find something good about it.

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So another trick that always helped me is I would look at the band and I would try to find a member or a thing in the song that I could really latch onto and identify with on an emotional level. So for example, maybe the drummer is fucking badass, but the music sucks. The singer's terrible. The band can't play, but the drummer is fucking sick. Really focusing a lot of your emotional energy as a producer on bringing out the drummer and the drums and making everything else focus around that. I was able to get through those tougher days where it's like, I don't like the band, I don't like them as people. They're really, really difficult. But you got to just latch onto one thing. And like I said, if you really emotionally are in a position where you're like, I don't like this, I don't want to do this.

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Just literally go out into the real world for a second and realize you could be working at McDonald's or something, putting fries in a cup. So I think it's important to embrace that kind of stuff. And the reason I say that is not only the financial aspect of doing it for a living, but trends are always changing. One, it's never a static thing. What's cool, so if you grew up listening to hardcore, hardcore in 2021 is going to be a lot different than hardcore in the 1990s or even the early two thousands, mid two thousands, you know what I mean? So everything changes. I don't like gen, I fucking hate gen, I can't stand it, but I've worked on big gen bands and I've enjoyed working on them when I've worked with them. So it's kind of like I don't listen to the genre, but I can still work on a client and enjoy something like monuments because it's great in what it is.

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Like I said, one is that trends are always changing and you always got to adapt to the trends. But the second thing is that it helps open your mind when you learn to find and embrace things in new sounds that you normally don't like and you finally let, I always call it quote, getting it. When you actually get it, you'll find out that you actually start enjoying it. Dude, I hated Metal Core, all the Joey bands. I fucking hated that genre. Again, I came from nineties Death Metal, then I was an instrumental neoclassical shred nerd. So all I give a shit about was Sweet Arpeggios and bands with high pitched singers and fucking speed picking runs. And then I got really into the Gothenburg Swedish death metal, kind of like everything, fucking harmonized, melodic stuff, but still brutal and heavy.

Speaker 1 (00:08:16):

So you hated Joey Spans because it was like a complete cultural punch in the face that I can totally relate with

Speaker 2 (00:08:26):

What you really went against everything. I believed it.

Speaker 1 (00:08:28):

I feel like part of this job, you have to learn how to become a fan of what you're working on while you're working on it. Yes, even if the moment it's over, you'll never listen to it again. You don't even like it. Or the moment before, you would never listen to it and you don't like it while you're working on it. You have to do whatever process it is for you mentally. You have to learn how to become a fan of what you're working on. And what Joel said is, right, whether it's picking one member that's extraordinary and just making that the reason that you think that this is sick or whatever it is, you need to find a way to get into and get behind and be a fan of what you're working on, or you will not do your best work and you will be clocked by people who will be doing their best work.

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And also, if you don't do that and you work with bands that you have not convinced yourself to for an extended period of time, it'll come out in the way that you treat people and in the quality of your work. There's no way that people will not eventually notice that you're checked out mentally or that you're kind of bitter, you don't want to be there, those sorts of things. There's only so long that people can hide that shit. Absolutely. You can fake people out for a little while, but years of this, there will come a point where you just wear down and you can't hide that shit. And one thing that you'll notice about people who come on nail the mix or on the podcast on the Riff Hard podcast too, is that they're still excited about what they do. We could be talking to people in their fifties, maybe you heard the John Ucci episode for instance.

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You can be talking to people who are seasoned fucking vets and they love it the way that they always loved it, and they have the same drive for it. Now, of course, it's one thing if your band becomes one of the biggest bands ever in a certain scene, but this type of character trait is common among all of our guests on URM and Riff Hard. That's very, very key because there's no possible way that they have always worked on stuff that they like, that they have always worked on stuff that's in their genre of choice and that they always get to pick and choose every single thing they do. But they have connected and reconnected and reconnected with why they do this in the first place. And I have found a way to get themselves mentally there. And if you want to do this, you need to do the same. And Philip, thank you for your question.

Speaker 2 (00:11:18):

One last quick thing I want to say on this. Couldn't agree with anything any more what you just said, it's spot on. I think that the biggest lesson for me after all these years that I've learned in regard to this specific topic is that a lot of music that I would've never given a chance to or written off for just some sort of stupid fucking metal elitism stemming back to my younger years, I found I ended up liking a lot of music and a lot of bands and a lot of genres that I just never thought I would like. It really opened my mind, and I just listened to so much more stuff now than I ever used to. So I found myself liking bands, for example, when I got at Till on my desk, I was like, this is the dumbest thing ever. And by the time I got done, I'm like, this is the coolest band I've ever fucking worked on. So you know what I mean? It's just like you got to go in with an open mind and you'll learn to the stuff that you're working on if you put your passion into it.

Speaker 1 (00:12:08):

Yep. Okay, next question is from Scott Bennett. Hello Scott.

Speaker 4 (00:12:14):

Hey guys.

Speaker 1 (00:12:15):

Hi.

Speaker 4 (00:12:16):

I just wanted to ask Joel, so when you made your band, I'm not sure the fucking Rock f Kin rock or however you say it, fucking rock. Just like if you could talk a bit about your marketing strategy. Obviously you created that band from nothing, and you were creating these illustrious stories on Facebook, talking about the members and stuff. And it was always too, it was comedy and sort of like Steel Panther in a way, but you really marketed something and then the band got some decent numbers for being a band that was created out of nothing. I just wondering if you could talk about that a bit. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:12:44):

Of course. So my premise creating the band is I want to have fun. I was doing it for me and not for anybody else. And I'm not the person who takes himself too seriously. And I think no band should take themselves too seriously because as soon as you do that, it really puts you into a fucking creative hole, which

Speaker 1 (00:13:03):

I always thought about the idea of demon or gear walking into Starbucks and their music starts playing,

Speaker 2 (00:13:08):

Dude,

Speaker 1 (00:13:09):

It'll be awesome.

Speaker 2 (00:13:10):

I remember hanging out with Nick Barker once. It was like, my children are boat on tour and he's hanging out. He's not in corpse paint, and he comes out in corpse paint after hanging out for 40 minutes, and he just looks at me and he goes, he takes his tongue out. I fucking lost it. It was like the funniest thing. He is like, Hey guys, what's up? This normal dude comes back in character. Oh my God. Anyways, okay. So I started that band idea with I just want to do something fun and stupid. So then I was thinking like, alright, well how hard could I run with this? I know how to market. So one of the things I realized is people like stories. I know this from marketing, people connect with stories. So as a band, if your story sucks, no one's going to be interested.

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That's why I'll watch little fucking Pump go around. I mean, we got to go back in time here, but Little Pump for example, go to the goddamn store and buy shit and hang out on the tour bus. It's interesting, people relate to that. They like reality tv. They like to just see other people doing shit and just watch it. So I'm sitting there and I'm just like, I'm going to have a little bit of fun with this. So I just started posting some ridiculous shit that, you know, deep down reading that you're going to think this is full of shit, but you're still curious because of the way that it's written and that it's fun. So I told them entertaining, captivating stories, I mean to the point where I had major fucking a and r guys hitting me up and they're like, dude, I need to hear this fucking band.

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What the fuck? I am like, no shit. Heavy hitting motherfuckers. And then I told 'em what I was doing and they were like, holy shit, dude. That's brilliant. So the idea is I created a story. Well, first off, I created a brand that was fucking ridiculous, completely over the fucking top. I mean, I'm like, dude, what's the name? It's got to have an exclamation mark in it. It's got to be all fucking caps. It's got to have, I'm going to go make a really stupid bio about it. Who is the members? Everything is just completely fucking ridiculous. That was the brand I picked. So I'm like, I'm going to tell ridiculous stories and I'm going to get people interested in it and I'm going to keep this ongoing saga. And it was captivating. It kept people entertained and they kept coming back for more and more and more.

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And then it was fun. And then when I dropped it, I had a big hype around it, I had a big story and I'm like, okay, how can I put some crack on this? Well, I got a buddy who owns a Spotify agency. I went around and I tried a bunch of them. He was the one that I thought I got the best results with, and I don't know if he's still kicking or not or whatever. They changed that shit all the time with how that stuff works and the algorithms and things like that. But he's a big playlist curator. So what he does is he goes out and he builds playlists and runs email campaigns and shit like that to them and gets people to listen and subscribe and all that shit. And he builds playlists, and then when he puts bands on the playlist, they get in front of a lot of people and if the music's good, it'll catch on.

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It'll do good. So I hired him to go do the thing, and he owed me a couple of favors anyways, and he helped me blow it up over there, plus the stuff that I did and things like that. And I'm like, man, if I had actually taken this band seriously, I probably could have ran it pretty hard and if I did music videos and all that stuff. But I think the underlying concept is this. And I mean, I could talk about this topic for five hours, so I'll try to keep this concise, but the most important thing you can do with a band or any artist's career is to treat it like a brand and to build a package. So start with a story. Start with a fucking, like what is it we're trying to do? Are we like a church burning black metal band? Are we a bubble gum pop, like happy go-lucky feely thing aimed at children? Are we we're church burning

Speaker 1 (00:16:28):

Black metal band just saying we're burning black? Okay, fuck yeah, church burning, black metal.

Speaker 2 (00:16:34):

So you know what I mean? Whatever genre, pick who you are in your identity and then create a story and an entertainment around it. So people want to see, they connect with lifestyle, they want to see behind the scenes. So for example, you treat the Instagram stories, every social media platform different. Facebook is more of like a monologue. You post your thoughts and reflective deep stuff so people can come and comment and fucking argue with their dumb opinions. And then Instagram is more of a picture of what's going on, where stories are more of behind the scenes or more of a personal a reality TV show. So it's kind of like if you think about those different platforms differently, you can create a story socially that people are going to identify with. And then again, try to find ways that you can get a good ROI. It's like for me, and again, this is two years ago, but I'm like, if I can throw 500 bucks in and I can generate X amount of streams, and if I retain 10 to 15% of them and then I could convert. So I start thinking like that. So how can you capitalize on the hype and get the most people to see it? So hopefully that gives you some food for thought. Like I said, this could go forever, but no, totally.

Speaker 5 (00:17:37):

I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks

Speaker 1 (00:17:39):

Scott. Alright, Brett, you are up next. How are you, Brett?

Speaker 5 (00:17:43):

Hey, good, thank you. Good. My question I guess is from the point of view of a musician, so currently I'm trying to figure out, maybe you have a cool riff or something, you're working with a group of guys and you feel like they might not be able to implement your vision. I'm wondering when do you know how to hold back? Maybe this isn't the time to implement this. Alright,

Speaker 1 (00:18:05):

Jimmy, from the standpoint of a musician as a band member, you want advice?

Speaker 5 (00:18:10):

Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:18:11):

Okay.

Speaker 5 (00:18:12):

Yes. So you're working with the group and you're like, I don't know if these guys are the people who can implement this vision though. I just kind of hold onto this for a little bit.

Speaker 1 (00:18:19):

I am just jumping in. So my band that got signed to Road Runner went through several lineup changes before we got signed. So my band was around for five years, six years before we got signed. And my goal from day one was getting signed to Roadrunner or not getting signed to anything else. I didn't want to go to a small label. And so I knew that I needed a certain type of lineup, which is if you look at the lineup of the band, I had some pretty fucking ridiculous people in it. And it didn't just form that way. It took a long time. I had to get Amal from who, if you don't know who he is, unbelievable lead guitar player. I had to import him from Alabama drummer Kevin Talley, one of the most amazing drummers in the history of Extreme Metal, had to import him from Baltimore for instance. It wasn't just like, oh, these are the dudes I know, let's have a band. And we had other lineups and I tried, I tested the other lineups. We would do mini tours, tried to do recordings, and it just wasn't it. And we kept on trying different people, maybe they'll be kind of good enough if they work for six months and then six months later they're still, they're not doing what I want. They're just not good enough. And then one day in 2003, I was just like, everybody's fired. Everybody.

Speaker 2 (00:19:53):

Okay.

Speaker 6 (00:19:53):

They are.

Speaker 1 (00:19:53):

Yeah, they're gone. And so me and the co-founder, I told him, and he's a little risk averse, so he was like, but we have a lineup. I was like, it's not the lineup dude. This is not the lineup. If somehow this lineup gets approached by labels and then we have to play at a showcase or something, we're going to get laughed off the fucking stage. This is not it. And trust me, what we need to do now is write music that is worthy of being on Roadrunner and assemble a lineup worthy of it and just trust me when if we get that together, this is going to have much more of a shot. And so spent 2003 writing that stuff, which did end up on the first Roadrunner release and assembling the right players. And I remember in town, lots of people in the scene started to hate me.

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They hated me a lot because I kicked out some people that were cool people in the scene. They were cool at all the tattoo shops and all the cool people shit. And all the cool people started hating me for firing their friends and I hate a all thing started and I get these hate emails and just being told that I didn't know what I had when I had it and I'm going to pay the price. And it was like, fuck yeah. It was all kinds of shit like that until I found the right people and when I found the right people, it was all worth it. All that hate, all that bullshit. The years of finding them, it was the best decision because we did end up getting signed a roadrunner and I am here right now because of having gotten to gotten that boost to the career, everything good that has happened came as a result of being able to have gotten that record deal when I did.

(00:21:51):

And if I hadn't made the tough decision of being like, well, I have a lineup, but it's not the lineup and I don't know, I don't even know who the right lineup is. I don't know these people. It's not like we had Facebook or MySpace didn't even exist yet. We didn't have all these, there was no YouTube Finding people was seriously difficult compared to what you've got now. It was forensic work. The way I found drummer. Kevin was in a classified ad in the back of a local paper. I saw an ad. Wow, creepy. I saw an ad. Well, hey, this is a different era. I saw an ad that said Session drummer can't play blast beats and double bass played with Dying Fetus, misery Index and one more and suffocation. And I was like, fuck yeah, sold. I'm talking to this guy. But by chance that I happened to read that issue of that paper is very, very difficult back then. So I feel like with the technology you have available to you now, there's no excuse whatsoever for having any stragglers in your band. If they are not up to par for the vision, get the fuck rid of them and find people who are, and if your music's not up to par to attract people worthy of that vision, you got to work on your music. That's my thoughts.

Speaker 2 (00:23:19):

Awesome. Well, thank you for translating my question. What is the goal of what you're trying to do? I mean, because I feel like that also plays in, that's the first question I would ask is what are you trying to do? What's the end game?

Speaker 5 (00:23:32):

Yeah. Would be something. Well, I've noticed with a lot of my favorite bands, there seems to be one person in the band who's kind of the driving force and I don't know why. That just seems to be a trend. There's one person and a lot of that, the writing comes from them. So I feel like that just gives the album some kind of cohesiveness that is different from when I hear bands where it's a group of guys having a good time bouncing stuff off each other, but so I don't know. Something more that's very cohesive kind of sounds like it's coming from one brain or at least very like-minded brains as opposed to just here we're just going to ping pong and see

Speaker 1 (00:24:12):

What happens. Force that. You can't force that though when you hear of a band like Korn or something where it's been, well, I know they have a different drummer now and people have gone in and out, but it's basically mostly the same core lineup for 20 something years or Slipknot where a couple of people died and stuff. But it is pretty much been very consistent

Speaker 2 (00:24:37):

When you find a group of people.

Speaker 1 (00:24:38):

Yeah, you can't force that, those types of relationships. If you have it great, if you find it awesome, but you can't just manufacture that. And if that's what you're looking for, you don't have it now, then this is not is not it. If that's what you want out of a band, but I would not let that hold you back because those types of work scenarios are, it's an organic thing. So if you so happen to find people that you can have that relationship with, great. But you might not, that shouldn't stop you.

Speaker 5 (00:25:17):

Okay. No, that's great. Thank you. Just be determined and if you're not feeling it, then don't have to worry about don't fucking settle. Yep, don't settle. Thank you. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (00:25:29):

Don't settle. Don't suck.

Speaker 5 (00:25:30):

Awesome. Thank you guys. Thank

Speaker 1 (00:25:31):

You. Hey everybody. If you're enjoying this podcast and you should know that it's brought to you by URM Academy, URM Academy's mission is to create the next generation of audio professionals by giving them the inspiration and information to hone their craft and build a career doing what they love. You've probably heard me talk about Nail the Mix before, and if you're a member, you already know how amazing it is. The beginning of the month, nail the mix members, get the raw multitracks to a new song by artists like Lama, God Angels and Airwaves. Knock loose OPEC Shuga, bring me the Horizon. Gaira asking Alexandria Machine Head and Papa Roach among many, many others over 60 at this point. Then at the end of the month, the producer who mixed it comes on and does a live streaming walkthrough of exactly how they mix the song on the album and takes your questions live on air.

(00:26:24):

And these are guys like TLA Will Putney, Jens bore, Dan Lancaster to I Matson, Andrew Wade, and many, many more. You'll also get access to Mix Lab, which is our collection of dozens of bite-sized mixing tutorials that cover all the basics as well as Portfolio Builder, which is a library of pro quality multi-tracks cleared for use in your portfolio. So your career will never again be held back by the quality of your source material. And for those of you who really want to step up their game, we have another membership tier called URM Enhance, which includes everything I already told you about, and access to our massive library of fast tracks, which are deep, super detailed courses on intermediate and advanced topics like gain, staging, mastering, low end and so forth. It's over 500 hours of content. And man, let me tell you, this stuff is just insanely detailed. Enhanced members also get access to one-on-ones, which are basically office hour sessions with us and Mix Rescue, which is where we open up one of your mixes and fix it up and talk you through exactly what we're doing at every step. So if any of that sounds interesting to you, if you're ready to level up your mixing skills in your audio career, head over to URM Academy to find out more. Alright, up next, Mr. Joel Vitor.

Speaker 7 (00:27:44):

Hey there. So I got myself in a bit of a situation and I was hoping for some advice. So I'm trying to get into the video game soundtrack industry and it's been really rough and I finally got a call this weekend to mix and master some songs from a soundtrack. The composer got himself in a bit of a mess and he wanted me to ghost write two of the songs, but I'm not going to get any money for it, only for the mixing and mastering. I'm not going to be able to use it for portfolio. So pretty much I'm going to have to write songs for this guy and get nothing out of it. Is this something that I should go through and suck it up and do it, or am I being ripped off here?

Speaker 2 (00:28:22):

Interesting. There's always politics in some stuff. I'll give you an example. Joey came to me at one point in his life and he's like, dude, I am so fucking booked. I could work until I've lived three generations of my life. I can't handle all the work on my plate. Can you learn to be me so you can help me scale? I'm like, yeah, dude, send me a session and I'll learn how to literally copy and replace you as a human being as a mixer. So we tested it and refined it. He's like, okay, but here's the deal. You can't tell anybody that we're fucking doing this or it's going to get me in a lot of trouble. And I'm like, yeah, okay, cool. So he's like, I'll get you some assist credits at best. But so I'm just like, okay, well do I want the fucking money?

(00:29:04):

Yes or no? Is it going to open doors and create things or do I want the credit? Right? What do you want? Do you want money or do you want power? You know what I mean? So for me it was like, well, I got a family to feed, so I don't care so much about the status or whatever. It's a great opportunity. See, I'm just going to go in and fucking kick ass. So the answer is, is that two songs probably aren't going to change your life on a game soundtrack, but being cooperative working and being a fucking badass to work with may yield some awesome results. The other thing is, at some point it will give you more leverage to come in and at some point and be like, Hey, look, if I'm writing we need to change this arrangement, blah, blah, blah. I'm not comfortable with it.

(00:29:45):

So I think to just shut a door because you feel like, well, you're kind of iffy on it is a mistake and this is my opinion, not everybody's going to agree with that. I would generally give the person the benefit of the doubt. I would jump through the hoop on a leap of faith and hope that it works out to something bigger and better. But if it doesn't, well okay, well what do you lose? Okay, you lose a little bit of time. It's not really, it's an asymmetrical risk versus reward in my opinion. So I think you should go for it, man, because like I said, if you go and you kick ass, you write two songs, so fucking what you get paid to mix and master, if it's badass, you're going to have maybe a different conversation with that person or that group of people that you're working with going forward and things like that. So you have more leverage then, but you don't have leverage until you provide value and you've proven yourself and you know that you're badass and you can hold your ground. So you can be like, well, look, I'm kind of uncomfortable with this arrangement, but I'll try it out. So maybe I don't know. Then go in and just put your best foot forward and just fucking kill it.

Speaker 1 (00:30:49):

Yeah, I agree with you, Joel. I'm thinking back to 2013 when I started doing Creative Live and I was also on a massive writing project at the same time that I had studio clients coming in, and then I was also doing work assisting the two producers that I worked with back in Florida. That's a lot of stuff coming at me and it was more that I could handle. And I remember asking John Douglas if he could more than just assist me if he can help me get through this and become me for a lot of stuff and some stuff I could get him credit on some stuff I couldn't, but I'd pay him for everything and he'd be doing me a huge solid. And obviously John Douglass and I are still very cool. He does stuff for URM all the time. It worked out great for him.

(00:31:42):

I think that unless there's a prior history of you getting screwed by this guy or something, I'm with Joel a hundred percent. If you are in fact helping him solve a problem, if you're basically coming to the rescue, as long as he is not a douche bag or something, he's going to remember that you solved the problem for him. There could be contractual reasons for why he's not allowed to credit you or something. It could have nothing to do with who he is as a person, but you helping him out, just being a good teammate could yield a lot of great stuff. And like Joel said, the worst that can happen is you're out some time.

Speaker 2 (00:32:24):

It's okay to get fucked over.

Speaker 1 (00:32:26):

Seriously, it's part of it.

Speaker 2 (00:32:28):

If you go through your life with fear of loss, what's going to happen is you're not going to achieve anything because you're constantly afraid to take risks. I've been fucked over by so many people in my career and lied to and stole from and cheated, and you know what? I'm still here and they're not. So I think my mentality wins out in the end because I think, like I said, I'm still here and I still ascend. So for me, it's kind of just like you can't be afraid to go into a relationship writing with somebody or mixing with somebody and then be like, oh, well what if they fuck me over? It's kind of like, well, what if they don't? It's awesome and you forge a great partnership and make a ton of money together and do really cool shit that is fucking exciting. So you got to go just fuck. Get rid of the fucking fear that's holding you back and just take the fucking jump,

Speaker 1 (00:33:15):

Man. You can look at it from a relationship angle too, getting in a relationship with someone. Is this person going to cheat on me or just get up and leave? Well, maybe, right? Maybe who knows? Is there a prior history of that? If not, then what? Are you going to not get into something good because of something that might happen when you have no indications that it'll happen? You will not have a good life if you approach your life like that. I'm Joel, a hundred percent. Thanks, Joel. Alright, up next Chris Lane. Hey Chris, how

Speaker 8 (00:33:48):

Are you? Hey, doing well guys. Thanks for giving me the stage. Of course. I guess my question would be in today's culture of artists that you have self recording, producing and distributing their own platforms, what's the largest value that you think a label is able to give their artists and especially specifically relative to how that relationship with the studio is?

Speaker 1 (00:34:13):

Can I take this? I've been on labels.

Speaker 2 (00:34:16):

Yeah, I have lots to say as well.

Speaker 1 (00:34:18):

Yeah. Let me just tell you from the perspective of someone who's been on a few labels and signed a few record deals, cool. There is a credibility that comes to you as an artist the moment you're signed to a good label. And it has nothing to do with the record budget, it has nothing to do with any of the deal points, but opportunities and doors, not all of 'em. It's not going to just swing wide open and you're set forever, get to do anything you want, but like I said, the public's perception of you is going to change and you will be considered real, which makes a huge fucking difference when you're submitting for tours, for instance, when you're trying to do anything. So that is something that is an independent artist. You're going to have to work 10 times as hard to establish number one.

(00:35:12):

Number two, and outside of budgets, okay, I'm not talking about stuff like budgets. The admin side of releasing things is a lot of work and there's a huge learning curve. Now I know some people, some artists who have been able to do that, like Chris Wiseman, a shadow of intent, amazing, amazing at it, I believe Aaron Marshall intervals. It does exist, it is doable. But these people are super, super organized. They're super super focused. They are very connected in the industry and they're the type of personality who is capable of segmenting. When they work on music, they work on music, then they work on the business stuff. Is it something they can't handle? They're going to delegate it. Forget the superstars, okay, forget Trent Resner, forget Radiohead, forget any of those superstars who have gone without a label and think about people who are closer to earth, like I said, like Chris Wiseman or Aaron Marshall. Are you that type of person? So you need to ask yourself, are you capable of handling that type of work in addition to the music? Are you capable of delegating? Do you have a good business brain? Can you actually do the job or is it going to be a giant fucking mess? You need to ask yourself that very, very honestly because one of the main things that a label does is it creates that structure that some artists are not capable of doing for themselves. It's not just about money.

Speaker 2 (00:36:43):

You need a team. Also, no one's successful in this world without a team. Anybody who thinks they can do everything, I mean that's one in a billion. But even the most successful people on earth like Elon Musk have massive teams behind them. Well, since we lost El again, I'm going to just add in what I was going to say about budget and financing. So if you think about it as a business deal, what a label adds is what a venture capitalist does to a business. It's like if you have an idea or a song or a brand brand, they can come in and they can take something that works and they can put absolute fucking steroids into it. You know what I mean? They can take it and they can blow it up and they have reach and contacts and connections and money to do whatever they need to do that you don't have unless you have your own investors.

(00:37:22):

So a lot of artists either need investors to get the money to do this kind of stuff, or they need to go to a label to do it, or they need to try to hope to blow up virally organically. And those are the three paths. And the most of the time, a lot of the big bands that I met, I've noticed in my life have had some sort of venture backing or some sort of rich backer, just some sort of person who can come in and inject capital or a label or a combination of both. Like a manager works with some investors and they break a band and then they take it to a label and then they put the rocket fuel on it. So financially, that's the reason that a lot of artists do that because you can work on a YouTube channel and things like that, or a label can snap their fingers, make a few phone calls, and then stuff actually starts happening again. New music's got to be great. You can put a billion dollars into a great, what you think is going to be a great business. It could go out of business in a year because the idea sucks and nobody cares, or it could be ahead of its time or whatever. So also have to think about, thank

Speaker 1 (00:38:20):

You Chris. Yeah, thanks you guys. Alright, up next is come in, you're next. Hello.

Speaker 6 (00:38:26):

Now I have a question that that I've been wondering for the past week if it's super normal or if I'm a horrible human being for thinking. But basically, do you charge your own band when you decide that you're going to mix slash produce them?

Speaker 2 (00:38:42):

I definitely like to sometimes. There's definitely been days I never personally have. I think this is more of a, it depends on how you value your time and the opportunity cost of your time. So when I was in the band, obviously I treated it like a separate business. We had a vested interest together to do and achieve a goal, which was getting signed and becoming successful as a band and touring. So I didn't really see it as me doing work production stuff. I saw it as a necessity. It's like we can go and invest and pay somebody, or I can just do it and save us a bunch of cash. That's the way we kind of viewed it. So I was willing to donate my time because the band success was important to me. Now, if I were in a band, I would still do the same thing, but I could definitely understand the mentality of wanting to charge your own band because again, it depends on how busy you are, how serious the band is, how you value your time.

(00:39:37):

And I will say this, I can't see that conversation going good at band practice. I feel like that would really, I agree with you in principle, you have every right to do it because again, I remember an album I put out myself because the band broke up and I released it and I did all the damn work and I mixed it and I finished the fucking record and I put it out and the band wasn't even a band anymore, but I did it because I wanted to do it and I definitely wish I could be compensated for all that fucking time, but at the same time, it's kind of just like, well, it's my music so it exists and at least I'm happy about that.

Speaker 1 (00:40:11):

Well, I think that it depends on what type of band you're in and what the structure is and how things work. Because there's certain bands out there where everyone has a certain job. There's the producer in the band, there's the person who handles all the numbers. It's the person who writes most of the music, et cetera. There's a lot of pretty successful bands where everyone has their role and they split everything equally and the producer does that work, but the producer doesn't get involved with certain other things because it's not that person's job.

Speaker 2 (00:40:49):

That's a really good point, Al. I think it's worth doubling down on that with splitting Eagle,

Speaker 1 (00:40:54):

You're working towards the same goal. Yeah, you're all working towards the same goal. So if what you bring to the table in addition to playing is that you're the one who can record, well that's cool. But then the only time that I see that going bad is if you handle the business and you write all the music and you produce everything and you micromanage everybody. But that's an imbalance kind of relationship. But if it makes sense to where you're just doing your part, then why would you charge them Now if it is a collective and there's a record budget that the band takes production as opposed to paying a producer, well, it would make sense also that the band invest in better studio gear, which obviously becomes yours, for instance. I have seen that happen many times too, but charging your band, your band is a client. Kind of weird.

Speaker 6 (00:41:49):

Thanks for pretty, I was wondering really, because I never really heard this topic brought up and there are a lot of producers that have their own band. Yeah, I was just wondering what other people's opinion on this because I've never heard anyone talk about it.

Speaker 2 (00:42:05):

No, I think equality is important in a business relationship, which a band usually is because if we take songwriting and publishing, even if the bass player didn't really contribute, you got to believe he's going to be fucking pissed off three years later that he didn't get a cut when that band blows up and you know what I mean? I've definitely seen that go bad. So I think when you're in a band situation, to echo what Al said, that's why I mentioned doubling down on this, is that the more equality you have, the more vested interest, the more people are going to get along. And that's so fucking important to the synergy of the organization if you want to be successful. Because as you get bigger, if you have little rifts between you, you can believe as soon as you put money in the wheel and it instantly jams it up, whatever little problems we have become really big ones really quickly because there's a lot to lose and a lot on the line and everybody thinks they're right and it can cause a lot of problems. So you want to squash that shit preemptively as much as possible by creating an environment where people feel like everybody's fairly contributing and having a good time doing it.

Speaker 1 (00:43:06):

Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (00:43:07):

Thank

Speaker 1 (00:43:07):

You. Thanks coming. All right. Up next. Mike Wood. Hey guys. Hello. Hey Mike.

Speaker 9 (00:43:12):

Kind of jumping back onto the label subject again, I was curious, do bands usually get approached by a label or is it something that bands kind of have to go look for and hound out? It depends,

Speaker 2 (00:43:24):

And there's a process for this and the best process is usually if I was going to start, and I've done this before, so I'll take an example. I take a band, I call it vinyl theater. They came into me as a local band. I'm like, your image sucks. Your this sucks your that sucks. Everything you're doing is fucking wrong. We need to change everything. Show me that you guys are motivated since you just told me you want to get signed and then we'll get serious. So the band came back, we put together an entire brand, they showed me they were serious. I'm like, okay, now we got to write hit songs. We got to write stuff that's going to smash for the genre that we're doing. And we're like, okay, cool. Now that I've got some really great songs and a band that I know fucking hustles and works hard and they look good and they have energy, let's go find a manager.

(00:43:59):

So I made some calls and I showed some people some shit. By the way, don't ever count on your producer pitching your band, but like I said, usually you go after a manager and if a manager hears it and like, holy shit, this is going to be big, they get on board. Once the manager gets on board, they're going to do some prep shit. For example, alright, let's go buy into a couple of dates. I got a tour coming through town with this huge ass band. I'm going to put you on the bill. They're going to pull some strings, they're going to get some connections, maybe they'll get some funding or financing, whatever. And then they're going to go and they're going to write more songs until they feel like they have a fucking banger of a song and they're going to go into the office of the a and r guy and be like, I got the next band.

(00:44:34):

Listen to this song. This is a fucking smash. We're going to crush in whatever format we're in in the genre. Say it's radio, say it's whatever. And at that point, if the label's like Holy shit, they'll pass it around the office and they'll be on the next fucking flight to come see you play live like a week later. That's always how it happens because then once they get into it, there's usually like a bidding war. So a label can come after a band, but usually after something goes viral and it blows up. So if you want to go in the normal way or where you didn't go viral, you usually need to kind of work up. And the best thing is not to pitch yourself, but to have a manager pitch it because the manager knows the a and r person, they go out and they drink together and smoke cigars and hang out on the weekend and go fishing with their kids and wives together. You know what I mean? That guy's going to have a much better chance than like, oh, some fucking bullshit band hit me up, blah, blah, blah garbage. Where it's like, Hey dude, I got the next thing. Alright, I'm going to listen because if you're bringing this to me, I know it's going to be good. You see what I mean? There's a big difference. So that is not always the process, but I would say statistically within the most standard deviations of what happens most of the time.

Speaker 1 (00:45:36):

Okay, so I agree with everything Joel just said and I'll just add that whole idea of if you matter, they'll find you. That's very, very true. It's very, very true. You got to understand the amount of stuff that gets submitted to people at labels. It's Monte Connor showed me once a Roadrunner a and r guy. How

Speaker 2 (00:46:05):

Many mixed credit emails do you get every day Al, on your DM? 50?

Speaker 1 (00:46:11):

Yeah. Imagine being an a and r person at a big label. You're going to be getting a tsunami of stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:46:20):

2000 unread emails with MP threes attempt.

Speaker 1 (00:46:23):

Yeah, exactly. You need some sort of a way to filter through that some sort of way. If you matter, basically people will be talking about you online or in your area and if you matter enough, it will spread. And people whose job it is now, remember it's their job to find bands that matter. This is what they make money off of. This is how they feed their families. If you matter, they will find you. And that's the way to get their attention is make yourself matter. You don't expect

Speaker 2 (00:47:01):

They blew up on SoundCloud and then they got entered in billboards number top three unsigned bands in the country. That magazine, billboard magazine that you need to hear about that are blowing up right now because they spiked the SoundCloud charts. I don't remember how we did it or whatever. We just had the right song at the right time, the right everything. So all of a sudden it was like now we're in a bidding board. We've got four or five different eight hour guys that want to come sign the band and they all talk and they all discuss and they're looking for the new thing everybody all the time looking for the next thing.

Speaker 1 (00:47:29):

Yeah, absolutely. Ditch the idea of going looking for labels and double down on the idea of making your own project as amazing and noteworthy as humanly possible. Something that people will want to talk about and will want to share with their friends because it's so great. Just think about, this was a shift in my thinking that really helped me a lot was I started to think about how do I become a fan of a band? What's the process? How do I hear about them? What makes me actually check them out from checking them out? What then happens next When from checking them out, I listen to them some more. What happens next that from listening to them some more, I listen to them a lot and I'm like, this is the shit. And usually I'll have, and this is pre internet, post internet, it's the same.

(00:48:26):

I will have had to hear about it in a few different places. Someone recommend it, I see the name somewhere. It kind of comes on my radar over the period of many months. And then somehow for some reason, maybe I check out a track and I pay attention or I don't. And then a little time goes by and a track comes up again on a playlist. I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool. And little by little I start to develop this idea that, wait, this matters. And then I see that there's a lot of people talking about it or I see that there's a lot of people talking about it and I remember seeing that name. Maybe I should check that out. I check it out and it's great. Then I want to check out more and more and then I'll go down a rabbit hole and then I'm a fan. But it's this process and it never ever involves the band coming to me ever. Key point. So think about how you become a fan of a band and keep in mind that the way that you become a fan of a band is probably the way lots of people become the fan of a band. And you want to enter yourself into that process. Alright, up next Philip Self. What's up Philip? Alright,

Speaker 3 (00:49:36):

So I got two questions. The first one is directed to both of you guys. And so this question's come up a lot and I still love hearing your experience on it. Things are still shut down for a lot of people and so we're doing a lot more remote work for artists. So how do you build a rapport with these artists for mix only jobs or artists that you just meet online if you can't do it in person, especially for people who feel like you do a better job and you give a better experience when you get to meet them in person and get to know them personally.

Speaker 2 (00:50:02):

Well, I'm going to cite a URM person I talked to on a one-on-one once and he was in the Seattle area and one of the things he did that was really awesome, we were talking about acquisition and then he kind of went and did his thing, and then he came back and he told me what he did, and he blew up very fast. So one of the tactics he did is he would go to an artist, first off, don't punish him, or don't send them the stereotypical copy and paste email. Let them you a little bit, this person's commenting on our shit. They're liking our statuses, they're sharing it to their like, oh, this person seems cool, right? You're building some sort of rapport. You're not just some rando who shows up and starts punishing them like, Hey, come work with me, man. Listen to my shit.

(00:50:46):

So he would go do something like that. He would try to warm 'em up a little bit and just be seen, right? Just like we were talking about with bands a second ago, like reverse engineering the process, be seen. Let them be aware that you're a person, but you're supporting them in a supportive role. So come in and then he would go to them and be like, Hey, I want to pitch an idea to you. So I think I was listening to your stuff. I love your band. You guys are amazing. I want to work with you, but can I remix for free a song like Your latest single, because I think I can do a better job. Can you get me the stems? It's not going to cost you anything. I want to show you that I can really deliver the shit for you.

(00:51:24):

So out of that, let's say he talks to 10 bands, and again, he's not spamming. He's taking the time to build some sort of visibility and stuff, a little bit of investment. I don't know what the success rate is, but he has a certain success rate, and then he sits down and he mixes that song until it fucking destroys whatever their last recording sounds like, and then he sends it to the band, and then they're like, holy shit. And then he gets the job, and this guy fucking cleaned up with this. I mean, he really, really, really, he went from like, yeah, I'm thinking about starting the studio. And then three months, the next time I had a one-on-one with him, he was like, dude, I am fucking booked. So I was really, really, really proud of him and happy. Most people aren't going to go for it like that, but I just really was happy to hear about that transformation.

(00:52:11):

So I kind of like that because at some point you have to pull the trigger and approach somebody, and you have to talk to them. And if you talk to them cold, it's a little bit more awkward. I'll use an example. When I go to the grocery store, there's a checkout person, so did you find everything okay? Blah, blah, blah, blah. So maybe the first time you go in there, you do a little small talk, you make a little joke or something, then you see 'em the next day and then you blah, blah, blah. And then the next day, Hey, how are you doing tonight? Blah, blah, blah. And then one day they're just going to open it up to you, and now all of a sudden after a month, you see this person almost every day you go back and forth, you start asking questions a little bit about each other, and then you have a nice, fun discourse and conversation with them.

(00:52:47):

It's the same thing. It's like you come in on mine and you just spam somebody through dm. They're going to be like, who the fuck is this? I get it every day. I hate it so much. It's just like, but when people are like, they're cool. You see 'em on a comment, or they're polite and respectful and they're not just like, bro, quit this fucking mix, man. I need to know now. I have a thing in 20 minutes. I need you to listen to this right now. It's like, wait, wait, what? Yeah, I'm going to drop everything I'm fucking doing so I can quit this fucking mix you and the other 50 fucking people that have emailed me this shit today. So it's like, think about it from that point of view, the band doesn't want to be punished like anybody else. They want to just be politely introduced. So like I said, let them see you go comment on their shit it, share it, whatever. They'll let them see you a little bit without approaching them and then make a soft subtle approach and what's, what's it going to say Fuck off? No, but what if they say yes? Then you sit down and you prove it. So I've seen that work. Again, I try to treat online in person.

Speaker 1 (00:53:44):

I'm going to just say though, if you're going to do that, just be ready to be hated by everybody. I mean, yeah, it's true. Just need to say, if you're okay with that, by all means, do that. But if you're cool with being called a poacher and basically making no friends in the industry and just surviving on the quality of your work alone, then do that. Now, on the other hand, if you're going to work with any band who has already worked with somebody else, there's a fine line. So I would be very, very careful if you really do believe that a band is being underserved with what they've already done,

Speaker 2 (00:54:20):

Offer a tax mix for free on their next album.

Speaker 1 (00:54:22):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just be real careful, having a strong network is just as important as the quality of your work, and especially if let's just say that you're great, right? You're great and you're so great that you become popular for a while even that's cool, but you're a bastard too. What'll happen is that the moment that the trends shift, your dms are going to go cold because nobody likes you. And as opposed to if you have a strong network, you'll keep on working because people want to work with you. So be very fucking careful when doing anything that could be seen as shady or that's going to get you hated by all your peers. Just

Speaker 2 (00:55:10):

Saying, I've never for the record acquired a client that way personally, but I've seen it work for other people. So a tactic is a tactic. It's what you choose to do with it and how you do it. There's a lot of ways to skin a cat.

Speaker 1 (00:55:23):

Yeah, exactly. I just needed to throw that little disclaimer in there. Also about mixing in person. I don't know that many mixers that mixing in person anyways, so most don't. Thank you, Philip. We have time for one more question. I'm going to bring up Timothy Duncan, and that'll be it. So welcome Timothy.

Speaker 10 (00:55:41):

Thank you. Whenever you're working with new bands and you're just kind of getting started, what do you recommend to them for legal purposes of their songs, if they're kind of just getting started as well in the industry, as of legalizing their songs and maybe getting lawyers and stuff like that? How much info that information as a producer do you try to offer to add value?

Speaker 2 (00:56:05):

I mean, you want to give people as much information as you possibly can. I think a band that's getting started that doesn't even know if they want to get, I guess again, it always comes back to what is the scope. You ask the client, let them tell you what they want to do. If they're like, we're going to the fucking moon, then you show them the path. But that still has value to teach that type of information to bands that aren't serious and never will be. I wouldn't advise getting a lawyer or anything like that for a band that's just getting started out, because they might not even be a band by the end of the month. You know what I mean? They don't need a fucking lawyer unless shit starts getting serious.

Speaker 1 (00:56:40):

Timothy. I think that it's really important to not put the cart before the horse. If everyone's just getting started out like ground zero, there's more important things to be worrying about than contracts. And just keep in mind that I'm saying this, knowing that in the record industry, a lot of stuff is done on a handshake. So even at the highest levels, there are still some things where people will write up a contract, agree and then never sign it. And there's a lot of stuff where terms are discussed through emails and the deal is done a year after the products even finished. That kind of stuff happens all the time. And so if that is something that happens at the highest levels, there is no reason to waste your time with it. With a band like Joel said, that might not be a band in a month. Now, I'm not saying that you shouldn't get a lawyer to look over contracts and that you shouldn't watch your ass or anything like that, but just given the scenario you just described of just getting started, you got more important things to worry about. Just

Speaker 2 (00:57:47):

Focus on their branding.

Speaker 1 (00:57:49):

Yeah, well focus on getting a great recording in the first place, focus on their songs and all that. If they're just getting started, it is highly likely that those things are also just getting started. Definitely your correlation. Yeah. Yeah. Just getting started, I'm imagining the just getting started part, being global in the project, everyone, and I just think that it's important to know what your priorities are and what is important to focus on. That would be the music and the way the music sounds, in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (00:58:25):

One of the things I always used to coach the first time I'd work with a band, I usually spend a lot of time, not so much teaching them business and stuff, but performance coaching them and teaching them how to be better at their instruments because 98% of people suck, and maybe the bar has gone up now, but at least when I was recording, bands would come in and you're like, okay, this kid's never had a guitar lesson, but he's in a band, so let me give him a micro guitar lesson while he is doing this. And then you open the kid's eyes and then the next time you see him, his pick attack sounds twice as good, and the bass player playing more confidently and the singer has better pitch and less shaky, stupid vibrato. You know what I mean? So focus on the performance aspect of it, how to record better, how to play better.

(00:59:07):

Then once we get that done, I would always go into branding a little bit and be like, okay, well what are you trying to do? We're all dressed like clowns. We got to get serious. What do we want to look like? What do we want to sound like? What do we do? So I think you can kind of add value, but there's a ladder, like a value ladder. You got to go up one rung Al is a hundred percent right. We can't be worried about how we're dressed if we can't even fucking play to a click track. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (00:59:31):

Yeah. And then the next thing is too is if you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to how the industry works and types of contracts and all that, you're actually doing a disservice giving advice on that stuff. If you don't have some level of expertise in it, hold off on that one,

Speaker 10 (00:59:50):

Do more research, and then once everything's done with the music and they're ready to actually distribute, then hit that bridge after I've done my research or got an expert in that subject that can assist with talking to them maybe instead of me wanting to do it all. But yeah, you can be a connector. There's a lot

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):

Of value in just sharing your network with people like, oh, you need a photographer here. This is the person the best. You need a videographer, or This person will shoot your music video. They're great. Be that person. That is also a great value add. It's just simply deploying your network for somebody, because again, you can't assume everybody knows the best photographer in town or the best lawyer or the, you know what I mean? So just be connected.

Speaker 10 (01:00:30):

That just takes that extra pressure, even though I want to add value, just takes that pressure off me, and then later down the road, if I become an expert, then I can offer that. Now, y'all are helpful, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):

But let me just say that adding value is great when you've already got the audio part of the value taken care of, all this extra stuff like helping them with branding and all that stuff. If you don't have the audio part unlock, none of that even matters. Focus on what's important, which is the audio. Once that part is good, I mean, you can always get better, but once that's more established, then you can start adding other kinds of value. And just remember that the most famous and successful producers and mixers don't do all that extra shit. Typically, they do the audio part. I mean, sometimes they'll help with writing, sometimes they'll facilitate a connect through the network, but oftentimes they're just doing the one simple thing that they're hired for, which is mix this and that alone is all that needs to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):

Here's a life hack. Is that the best time to do this, in my opinion, because you want to be dedicated a hundred percent to the audio part of the job with your brain is when you're doing something passive like drum editing or vocal editing, that's always what I would sit there and lecture the band, edit drums for a day, and then we'd be bullshitting and I'd entertain 'em. So I'd give 'em a lecture and then the rest of the time we were focused on what we were actually there to do. So

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):

That's a good, yeah, but you got to know what you're talking about if you're going to give 'em a lecture, advising them on stuff. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):

Understood.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):

Cool. Well, thank you for your question, Timothy. Alright, everybody, thank you for hanging out with us, Joel. It's a pleasure as always.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):

Anytime.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):

Yeah, and we will hopefully speak to all of you next time. Have a good day.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):

Thanks for the questions, everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):

All right, then another URM podcast episode in the bag. Please remember to share our episodes with your friends as well as post them to your Facebook and Instagram or any social media you use. Please tag me at Al Levi m audio at M Academy, and of course tag our guests as well. I mean, they really do appreciate it. In addition, do you have any questions for me about anything? Email them to [email protected]. That's EYA [email protected] MY, and use the subject line, answer me a. All right, then. Till next time, happy mixing. You've been

Speaker 4 (01:03:00):

Listening to the Unstoppable Recording Machine Podcast. To ask us questions, make suggestions and interact, visit URM Academy and press the podcast link today.