JOEL WANASEK: Speed Mixing, Structured Training, and Automated Plugins

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

Hello, Joel,

Speaker 2 (00:00:02):

How you doing Eyal?

Speaker 1 (00:00:03):

Good, very good. I'm kind of excited today because of what we're doing, which in my opinion, and obviously we're not going to be vague about this, but in my opinion, the thing we're doing now, if I think back in time for us, is one of the first times that I really knew that URM really was going to do well and we had nailed a mix before it and enhanced before it, and those were doing super well. But for some reason, when we did this in 2017, for me that was the exclamation point on the end of the sentence or was the final thing for me to seal the deal that URM was going to work. And what I'm talking about is we released a course called Speed Mixing back in 2017. The first speed mixing won and we didn't know how people were going to take to it.

(00:01:10):

We didn't know if no one was going to buy it or if they were going to buy it and hate it and buy it, not do it because it's kind of an intensive course, but as it turns out, lots of people bought it, lots of people actually completed it, which is, I'm not sure people viewing or listening understand how crazy that is because, and I'm talking to everybody in the audience here, but how many times have you bought a course and not even started to watch it or watched section one and then just never gotten around to it? I think that's most people with most courses, and we have data on this, most people do not get through courses and with speed mixing, most people got through it. And to me that meant that A, we are actually getting results for people in real life, and B, they think that what we have to offer is valuable enough to actually break the mold and finish a goddamn course that's 10 weeks long, right?

(00:02:18):

This isn't just like a do it in a weekend type thing. So we released updates over the years to speed mixing and decided earlier this year that it was time to do speed mixing too, which because a lot's happened since 2017, even though we did a few updates along the way. There's all kinds of new technology now. All the das have been updated several times. People have gotten better with their workflows. There's just new stuff. You can't take something from 2017 or 2018 and think that it's going to be one-to-one relevant, even if the concepts are the same or the concepts. The concepts are evergreen, but the application, you got to evolve with the times. And so it was time to do a speed mixing for the current age, and that's what we put out today. And so if you're already sold, just go to nail the mix.com/speed mixing and you can get it, it's going to be on sale till October 15th, 2024. If you're listening to this afterwards, then just know that it'll reopen in the future several times. But it's a pretty game changing course for people, don't you think?

Speaker 2 (00:03:43):

I mean, absolutely. For me, the gauge is, I mean, one, it came from the insane real world reality of what Joey and I were doing, mixing in real life that inspired speed mixing one, but then jumping back into mixing hardcore in the last couple of years and really killing myself with work helped evolve it. So not only is it something that I do every day and have done for many years, and it is part of my life, which is very dear and close to me, but more importantly is teaching these concepts that are pretty, I think pretty extreme for some people I think, or I don't know if extreme is the right word, but pretty mind blowing. I could see how it's a little non-conventional, especially when we came out with some of this stuff. But seeing people do that, follow the regimen, go through it, push themselves to the limits and actually get massive results.

(00:04:39):

And a lot of people, I've even seen testimonials where people have turned this into careers and this was the catalyst for that. So seeing that level of just and that out quantity of people go through and do these things, which again started off as me, Joey, and my assistant Joe, just trying to figure out how the hell we're going to keep up with the ridiculous demand that Joey had for mixing and just survive and not turn a bunch of clients down and take those principles and the strategies and just everything that we had developed and deploy them into their lives and get real world results. That to me is just, I don't know, it's like the coolest feeling ever because this was born from crazy extreme circumstances that I feel like are rare and only happened a few times and a given time period. More importantly, we were able to capture that energy, give it to other people, and then watch so many people get insane results with it. So it's just awesome.

Speaker 1 (00:05:34):

Hey everybody, I want to take a quick break from this episode to talk to you about URM Academy now. So if you're new here, URM Academy is the best online school for metal and rock producers and musicians. When you join, you get a whole access to a range of content. There's nail the mix, which I'm guessing most of, and that's where we bring on a different artist and a different mixer every month to walk through a mix and give you the raw multi-tracks. And we've had on mixers like Will Putney, Jen Bore Tom Lord algae with artists like Bring me the Horizon, Ms. Suga Periphery, opec, even Nickelback and tons more. If it's under the heavy music umbrella as I like to call it, we cover it. You also get our Mix lab tutorials, which are little bite size tutorials about very specific topics. We have over a hundred of those now.

(00:06:32):

So if you don't have the time for a nail to mix session or an entire course, you just want to find one tidbit of info to help solve a problem, that's what Mix Labs are for. We also have exclusive members, only Facebook and Discord groups where you can make friends with and talk to thousands of people from all over the world who do the exact same thing as you. And what's super awesome about our community is that it's troll free. We kick trolls out. It's like an Oasis online and also our instructors are part of the community and they interact with everybody. So you can not only make friends, but you can I guess socialize and learn from the best. Also, we have URM enhanced, which is our more advanced membership tier. The main focus of that is our Fast Track library, which are some very, very, very detailed courses on everything from editing drums to post-production effects, automation, creating impulse responses, working with low tune guitars and more.

(00:07:34):

We have over 70 of these. It's actually insane how deep and comprehensive the fast tracks are. And when you join Nail the Mix or URM Enhanced, you also get access to Riff Hard, our online school for metal guitarists with hundreds of lessons from artists such as Animals as Leaders, spirit Box Ark Spire, Jason Richardson, and many more. So go to URM Academy. Let's get back into this episode. Well, the thing is, I think a lot of people might not have the same mixing workload that you and Joey had at that period of time, but they have other things going on. Lots of people have a family and a job and a spouse

Speaker 2 (00:08:16):

Just as important

Speaker 1 (00:08:18):

Not life, and they still want to get better. And so what are you going to do with limited time? You can either progress at the rate that you're going to progress naturally and just never get great, or just take way longer than you need to because you just don't have that much time to spend on it, which is fine, by the way, no judgment. But if you have very limited time and you also want to get really good, you have to strategize how you're going to do that. So when we first came out with this, interestingly enough, I feel like there were a lot of skeptics about the idea of working faster. I remember a lot of people were saying that we're teaching people to cut corners or cheat their way into just stealing people's templates or some weird stuff like that. And that's not at all what this is about. And that's kind of what I wanted to focus on this podcast. But there's several reasons for why you should learn how to work faster. And in my opinion, number one is, and this is especially true for those of you who are super busy, but it's really, really true for any human on earth, is your hearing only lasts X amount of time before you're out of the sweet spot. Even if you have 12 hours a day to devote to mixing, you still only have two or three hours of peak hearing no matter who you are.

Speaker 2 (00:09:56):

What scares me about that is because anybody who's ever mixed a song late at night and then gotten up and car tested the next morning and just sat back and gone, holy crap, I totally messed it up. I thought it was so sick last night. You don't realize that the hearing drop off is actually gradual over time. Like going to a concert, it's like at first you're like, oh my God, you put your fingers in your ears. But then after song three, you forget that your ears are already threshold shifted and blown out, and then you get out of the concert and you're like, ears are ringing and everything sounds like it's underwater. And then you realize the hearing damage. Well, obviously you're not monitoring at insane levels even when you're monitoring at low levels, long exposure to sound is fatiguing and you start having loss. And again, like I said, anybody who's ever sat in a studio a long time and then taken a break or woke up the next day and listened to their work realizes like, wow, where'd all that high end come back from? Or I can't believe I balanced like this. This is way off. My low end was out of whack. And it's crazy. You don't realize when it's happening, but it affects you whether you want it to or not, and there's no way you can get around it. It's a physical limitation of the human body.

Speaker 1 (00:11:05):

And look, we all know those super, super high achievers who clock 12 hour work days, but they're not mixing the whole time. And I think that that's kind of what's important. Even the mixers, those top level mixers, they'll spend part of the day on the phone, they'll spend part of the day working on setting something up or thinking through problems, but they'll spend a very specific amount of time actual hardcore mixing. What I mean by on the phone is handling business and stuff, handling business and all the other parts that go into being a professional mixer. When you hear about X person having the most insane work ethic you've ever seen and spending 12 hours a day at the studio, just know that in general, they're not spending 12 hours a day mixing. I mean, they will sometimes go over that three to four hour mark of mixing and maybe they'll do an eight hour day of mixing, but that's not sustainable for anybody. And to be honest, most people I know who mix for a living, they have this window. Even if they have all the best habits, they take frequent breaks, they listen at a good volume, they let themselves recover, they use reference mixes properly, all this stuff. They will still admit openly or privately that after three hours, four hours, maybe five, the best decisions of the day are behind them. And typically when you hear about those long, long sessions, they're more on the production end of things when they're recording a band, right?

Speaker 2 (00:12:57):

Part of me like a stupid deadline where it's like you have two days to mix an entire album and you don't have a choice, you just stick through it and survive

Speaker 1 (00:13:09):

And then take two days to sleep it off.

Speaker 2 (00:13:11):

Yeah, it's not ideal. I mean, when I mix, I mix in really concentrated pockets. So I try to layer my day where if I'm going to do a first mix on something, I'm just totally blocked out for two hours and however long I need to do it until it's done, it's done. But then it's like, okay, after you do that, you can't just jump into something else. Usually it's like, all right, take a walk or maybe do some office work or get on the phone or do mixed notes because mixed notes don't really take any brain power unless the mixed note is, Hey, you're way off base, you totally screwed it up or reapproach it. Usually it's like, turn this up, turn that down. So I actually fill in a lot of my downtime with mixed notes and just turn down the volume really, really low and kind of just pace myself out. But again, that hearing fatigue is totally every morning. I'm surprised when I get in my car and listen to what I did at the end of the day, no matter how many years I've been doing this, it's just always that way because your ears are fresh and first thing you're just like, damn, I really blew out my top end and you didn't even realize it. It's dangerous.

Speaker 1 (00:14:14):

If you want, a good way to test whether or not this is true is go try EQing some symbols for an hour straight or some distorted guitars for an hour or two hours straight,

Speaker 2 (00:14:24):

Just sweep frequencies for five minutes with a narrow cue and a 90 DB boost and just do that and you'll blow out your ear in 45 seconds and you're out for an hour after that easily.

Speaker 1 (00:14:36):

Yeah, exactly. And you brought up the other factor, you said brain power. That's the other thing that goes right, because not only do we have a physical limitation when it comes to actually hearing, we have mental limitations for how much time we can spend in deep focus. Some people call it flow state, some people call it deep focus, whatever you want to call it. Whatever that moment or that span of time is where you are in the mode and everything around you disappears except for the thing you're working on. Basically you are zoned in. You can't do that all day long. Hence why people will do that for 90 minutes, take a break, another 90 minutes, and then that's it. They'll go do emails, phone calls, take a walk, and then maybe do another session later. But you don't have an infinite energy store for that kind of work.

(00:15:39):

And that kind of work is where you want to be in that mental state. When you're doing that kind work. You want your mixing to be coming, you're mixing decisions to be coming from zone of total focus, in my opinion. You don't want to be making crucial decisions when you're already tired and your hearing is already shot. So right there, if you think about the idea that most people who are professionals, either they have crazy schedules, crazy deadlines, or if they're not professionals and they have a real life, they only have a limited amount of time and they're probably going to be getting to this when they're tired after work. Or maybe they'll wake up an hour earlier and spend an hour mixing and that's all they can do. Whoever you are, you have limited amount of time. And so to decide to make the most of that time behooves you, in my opinion.

(00:16:43):

And so let's start talking about what actually in the real world goes into actually getting faster. And by the way, if we've sold you on getting speed mixing too, just go to nail the mix.com/speed mixing. We'll talk about what's in it later in this episode, but like we said, it's on sale until October 15th, 2024. If you listen to this afterwards, we'll reopen it. But alright, so I think that the first stage of mixing faster in my opinion is to systematize everything you can systematize. So none of the creative stuff, we'll talk about the creative stuff later, but when it comes to, for instance, mixed prep, routing, all that kind of stuff, like cleaning your Toms, cleaning your symbol tracks, there's a long list of these things, but all that stuff that you would do the same exact way every single time, that doesn't change. There's no creativity involved with that usually. I mean, sometimes you might get a problem session where you have to come up with a creative solution, but by and large, you're not going to find a new way to color code your tracks every time. So you want to get through with that stuff as quickly as possible. And I have a list here that we made of just how much stuff goes into mixed prep and I'll read some of it. I'm not going to read it all, just there's so much, but you

Speaker 2 (00:18:23):

Haven't read it in my head. Already hurts.

Speaker 1 (00:18:24):

Yeah, dude, there's, okay, so there's session setup, that's your sample rate and bit depth, the tempos, you got to get that right. Same signatures, the grid settings. You've got to organize the session with the track naming, color coding, track order label, your sends and returns properly, got to make sure tracks are consolidated and cleaned up. Edit and trim the tracks, all your cross fades, bounce midi to audio if needed, consolidate your regions freezing or flattering tracks that need that gain. Staging the levels, normalizing tracks if needed, removing dc, offset tuning and timing, pitch correction if needed, if it wasn't done before. Tightening the timing if it wasn't done before, hopefully it was done before, but you don't know. Checking for phase issues, that was probably not done before. Removing unused tracks and files that, so when we say cleaning, earlier we said cleaning that meant the noise between Tom hits, but also unused tracks and files. You get a session in from another producer, there might be a bunch of stuff unused files that you don't need in there,

Speaker 2 (00:19:36):

Or

Speaker 1 (00:19:36):

If you recorded it yourself, you probably have a bunch of unused stuff like undeleted files or just stuff that's just clogging, clogging up the session, organizing your track groups, grouping similar tracks, creating subm mix buses, creating VCA masters, and I'm reading this off because I don't want to forget anything, but it goes on. I'm only about halfway through. So that's a lot of stuff and that's the stuff that you have to do on every single mix. If that sounds daunting, it's because it is daunting. Like I said, I just got through half of a typical mix prep scenario and so if you ignore this stuff, you ignore it at your own peril because a properly mixed track is you're like 50% or 60% of the way there to a good mix. If it's properly prepped, it's kind of yours to fuck up from that point forward.

(00:20:35):

If you don't do this, you are dealing with an unwieldy beast and will probably mix yourself into corners you can't get out of. But this can either take 90% of your time or it can take 10% or 20% of your time. And if you think about sessions where this takes 90% of your time and then you have 10% for mixing, well, if you're unhappy with your mixed results, what do you expect when you spent 10% of your time mixing and 90% prepping, right? You remember, did you ever go through that in the early days where 90% prep, 10% mix?

Speaker 2 (00:21:15):

I mean there's a couple of different scenarios I think people run into. The first is you get hired, let's just say as a mixer. And if you don't prep separately from mixing because they're two different processes, your right and your left brain are fighting, you were tripping over yourself the entire time, literally just getting excited, starting to feel a balance. And you get inspired and you're going with your gut and then all of a sudden you're like, oh crap, I got to route this over here and do this and side chain this to this and this and that. And then you're like, wait, what was I doing? And then it's like your momentum goes like this drops down, stops. It's like being in stop and go traffic. It's like stop. And you're like, alright, step on the gas, we're moving, we're moving, and oh, stop.

(00:21:55):

Okay, so it's so frustrating. The other scenario, and people do this all the time, I was especially the worst at this, and mixing as you go if you're producing the track and mixing as you go is good because in some ways it allows you to really let the band hear what it's going to sound like as you're going. But you usually run into a problem is when you're mixing as you go. But when you sit down to mix, you haven't sat down to organize anything. You have a tracking session that you are fighting the whole time because it is a mess. You've got unedited takes, you've got things that aren't named correctly or just like you call a track, like BS one, BS two, you don't have a name. It is like everything is unorganized, everything is in your way. And again, you do that ping pong thing, you're like momentum, momentum gone.

(00:22:38):

And your momentum in mixing is a fine piece of China if it's super delicate. But what happens is once you break it, you are screwed. And it's much better to sit down and just devise a system for prep, which is something we teach in speed mixing and get it all out of the way first. So then you can just a hundred percent creativity. You never come back down to the basin to the floor of your creativity. You are just taking off instead of doing this bouncing back and forth crap, which is just the worst, most ineffective way to mix. It just makes people so frustrated. Literally, this was a major problem in my life when I got busy. I have three kids and that's a lot. And what would happen is I'm sitting there working on a track and then it's like you have a certain amount of time and it's like now you're dealing with irresponsible producers who wait till the last minute to make something and love them all.

(00:23:32):

No offense to them, but I mean, come on, everybody wants to take as long as possible. And then it's like, Hey mixer, fix this. You get three hours. So you get into these situations where you're just totally screwed if you can't be prepared for that and can't keep the prep clean and you can't separate these tasks when you sit down to mix, of course you're not going to get the results that you want. It was only the fact that I had to literally reevaluate my entire life. It was just chaos because I wanted to spend more time with my kids and I was just like, this is unsustainable. I can either work 16 hour days because of other people's inefficiencies, not my own, or I can improve the things I have control over and create systems around it that allow me to control the time and the session no matter what somebody throws at me. And for me, that was life changing. That was just really, really, really powerful. It was

Speaker 1 (00:24:20):

Painful. I was thinking about the stop, go, stop, go analogy you just made and let me add to that stop, go, stop, go without a GPS or MapQuest for those of you who are older and ending up at a dead end sometimes, and what I mean by a dead end is if you're tracking and mixing at the same time mix as you go or you're not properly routing and gain staging, you can get to these situations where gain staging is all messed up, but you've got the tracking session sounding dope. However, for whatever reason, you're starting to get into the red on lots of your buses, on lots of your tracks, and you still haven't even tracked vocals. You haven't done some of the lead tracks that will jack the levels. You haven't added Tom samples, which everybody knows is a master killer. You haven't added the elements yet that you need the most headroom for, but you're already starting to hit the red on things and the moment you try to rework that whatever you had going that sounded cool is gone

Speaker 2 (00:25:33):

And

Speaker 1 (00:25:33):

You don't know how to get back. That's what I mean by mixing yourself into a corner that you can't get out of. I'm sure lots of people are like, yep, done that. Still do it.

Speaker 2 (00:25:43):

Yeah. What happens in that scenario? It's like then you're like, oh, I'm screwed, so let me just pull this back a little bit and guess what? The entire mix crumbles and then you're back at square one because you've violated the rule that we've just laid out for you.

Speaker 1 (00:25:55):

Exactly. And so we are suggesting, and if you don't take speed mixing, we're suggesting you figure it out for yourself. But if you do take speed mixing, we show you how to do this in Reaper Pro Tools and cubase specifically, if you use another D, these skills will translate. You'll need to probably figure out how to do the same thing in your job. But all major daws do this stuff and everything that we named on that list plus more, we show you how to do and how to develop the fastest way possible of getting through this so that when you're prepping, you are literally doing it at lightning speed and still doing a good job of it so that you can get done with it, get it out of the way, move on with your life. So nail the mixing.com, nail the mixing nail, the mix.com/speed mixing to get speed mixing too. So next thing is, okay, so your prep, your prep's done, you did a sick job and you still have 90% of your time to devote to actual mixing

Speaker 2 (00:27:06):

And brain and ears

Speaker 1 (00:27:08):

And brain. Yeah, yeah. Say you mastered your mix prep and now it's no longer taking up half your time or 90% of your time, you got it down to 10 to 20%, which means you have a good 80 to 90% of your time energy hearing to devote to actual mixing. But then still you see things where people will spend way too much time on one thing and then not worry or do an afterthought, kind of an afterthought level of work on other elements or worry too much about elements that are secondary and not get, for instance, not get a good low end balance or low end relationship that works between the kick and the base, but they'll have the sickest lay throws you've ever heard, or they'll get really great balance, but there's nothing really gluing everything together. There's just over focus on certain things and not enough focus on other things.

(00:28:13):

So I think the next order of operations, and this is genre specific, project specific, so this isn't something that is nailed down in stone. However, I think it's best to have a few different paths you could take if you're working on death metal, that there's a path that'll work 85% of the time. If you're working on pop, there's a path that'll work 85% of the time working in a country, there's a path that'll work 85% of the time. And what I mean by that is if you're working on death metal, you might do drums, then guitar, then bass than vocals. If you're working on pop, you might do vocals, then drums, maybe it just depends on the artist and the genre, but you need to have an actual order of operations. And that goes also for how you're processing things or balance EQ dynamics, distortion effects, all that stuff. How do you figure that stuff out, what order you're going to work in?

Speaker 2 (00:29:18):

I mean for me, I think about the target format and the types of clients that I have. So I mix a lot of stuff for radio and a lot of stuff that's mainstream. I do a lot of active rock, I do a lot of pop and alt rock and things like that. I do some metal just not as much as I used to over the years. So metal's, very guitar and drum focused. Whereas if you're mixing a pop song or a country song even or a rock song, there's a very, very, very high disposition towards vocals, meaning that I can't tell you how many times I've mixed for radio and then gotten a call back from the pd, the program director, if you don't know what a PD is and they're like, Hey, can you send me a vocal up? I need more vocals. It's not getting through the radio compression.

(00:30:03):

It's got to cut through. These people care about this stuff. And it's like your radio pitcher, the person going around trying to get you placements on stations that your band is hired is going to call you and you're going to need that asset because again, that stuff matters. They take that feedback very seriously. So what happens is you learn to mix your vocals louder. For example, if you were mixing Christian Rock, now that's a format I've had plenty of top tens in. If you're mixing Christian Rock, if you could even hear the band, I joke the vocals aren't loud enough. Now obviously if we're doing active rock, they don't need to be that loud, but they definitely need to be loud. And it's just a format difference. So it's very important to understand the format you're mixing and what's important. So if I had to give a blanket thing that would apply, of course there's edge cases for everything, but I would say for me, I think I would place vocals number one, but you don't have vocals without music.

(00:31:00):

So you got to really get the groove right, okay. And by groove, that could be drums, bass, whatever's in the session. It's the movement of the song, the energy. If you're at a wedding, go watch people drunk dance and you'll know why the groove is important. And then what's the next thing they do when they drunk dance, they sing the Whitney Houston song or whatever out loud and they slaughter it, but they're having fun, they're dancing and they're singing. That is 99% of most people. So to me that's like the top of the pyramid. And then after that, we have things like the sustained instruments. And I know in metal that would be different because obviously in metal we love our guitars and they're very, very important where it's like if we're a genre like pop, it's not as important as listening to say Katy Perry sing, right?

(00:31:48):

And then as you go down, you have your other detail elements and like that. So again, learning to prioritize what actually matters in a mix and having a strategy for it and knowing where and what to do is also super, super important. Because if you don't, and like you said earlier, Al, if you're sitting there chasing some detail, rabbit do the chase, I like to call it, it's trying to get the perfect snare drum, but it's like the snare is not even that important. The song. And it's like you've missed the vocals and the vocalist doesn't sound amazing and the guitar kind of sucks and the metal song and the drum mix is weak, but you're just focusing for three hours When you're mixing on a snare, you're not doing the thing you should be doing as a mixer. Unfortunately, that's how most people mix. They pick some little rabbit hole, they go down it with aggression and further, and then they don't look up and zoom out and just be like, what the hell am I even doing? Why am I spending an hour and a half trying to come up with this crazy little vocal effect here that happens for two seconds? It's really not that important.

Speaker 1 (00:32:47):

And now I only have two hours left to do the rest of the song,

Speaker 2 (00:32:52):

Especially when you're on a deadline. I can't even imagine professionally like sitting there and spending that long. I mean, I've done it before when I'm not on a deadline, but when you're on a deadline, you got to know what matters and you got to prioritize it.

Speaker 1 (00:33:04):

You're still in a mental deadline because there's x amount of time before you mentally check out from working on a song too.

Speaker 2 (00:33:11):

Totally.

Speaker 1 (00:33:11):

So you're working against your own, you're working against the clock no matter what, whether it's an external clock or an internal clock, you're working,

Speaker 2 (00:33:20):

Yeah, your quality like plateaus over time. There's a certain period of time where your mix is going to get better and then it levels off and you could work all day on it and maybe get that much better, but different isn't necessarily better. Meaning the more time you spend on a mix doesn't always mean it's a better mix. And usually things get worse if you spend too much time on something, which is a weird sweet spot. But I think that's really impactful if you think about what that could actually mean.

Speaker 1 (00:33:48):

Absolutely. So I want to take a second to talk about what's actually included in speed mixing. So go to nail the mix.com/speed mixing to pick it up. First of all, you get lifetime access to over 115 videos, and that's including Cubase Reaper and Pro Tools versions. If you get it before October 15th, 2024 and you follow along with us, there will be weekly instructor led Zoom calls for students of the course. We've got mini courses, one mini course on automated mixing tools. That's stuff like Soothe and Bloom, et cetera. And then also a studio business course for those of you that want to get a more efficient studio business. Those of you trying to do it professionally, this is going to take place over the course of 10 weeks and every single week a new section will come out. Included with that are 35 sets of multi-tracks, raw multi-tracks in several genres cleared for use in your portfolio so that you have material to do the course with, to practice with, and also to do the challenges, which I'm about to get to.

(00:34:57):

There's a lot of challenges in this course. We'll talk about practical training a little bit later in the podcast, but it's not enough for us to tell you what to do or how to think about something or best practices. You got to train it. And so there's a bunch of trainers like EQ trainer, compression trainer, balance trainer, et cetera, a whole lot of 'em including culminating in a 30 songs in 30 day challenge. Plus there's a private speed mixing Facebook group where you can interact with other students of the course and myself and Joel. Plus you get two months of URM enhanced and through email, the mixed sessions of your course and lifetime access to all current URM plugins. Alright, we'll talk more about some of that stuff in a bit. But another thing that you need to figure out once your order of operations still, there's stuff you can systematize, and we don't mean systematizing in terms of mixing by looking and not listening or cutting corners, but there's certain things that you're going to do the same almost every time or at least as a starting point. And there are certain things that you don't need to spend as much time on as you think because there's tools that will help you do those things faster. For instance, a compressor is kind of like an automated automation tool.

Speaker 2 (00:36:28):

It

Speaker 1 (00:36:28):

It's an automatic automator.

Speaker 2 (00:36:30):

It literally is like an automated finger on a, it's the first automated,

Speaker 1 (00:36:36):

It's got automated volume knob.

Speaker 2 (00:36:37):

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:36:40):

And we show you how, but there's ways to set compressors to where you don't need to tweak 'em again for the entire song. And probably the settings will work across multiple sessions. When you look at mixers like CLA, you see their wall of outboard and they have four copies of the same compressor times, however many compressors. That's because those settings don't really change ever. So basically they're patching into one. It don't like it, don't like it, okay, patch into the other like it or don't like it, patch into the other it cool moving on. And basically, I'm sure that there's some times where that changes, but I guarantee you that 90% of the time, one of those settings that he's got dialed in is going to work for just about everything. And if you figure that stuff out for your own mixes, what are the four options that will work 90% of the time for everything? You've already eliminated a bunch of work. If you're just going to do something the same way every time, why do it from the ground up every single time, right?

Speaker 2 (00:37:53):

Yeah. I mean, absolutely. And I could see somebody being like, oh, well that would limit your creativity. And that's absolutely wrong because I'll give you an example. I could show you Al how to set up a compression template where basically it's going to cover, like you said, A CLA would do where it's in or out, you know what I mean? And it's like, do I need compression on this or not? You have the type of attack and release you on your snare drum, but you might have five or six different compressors that you love that sound different and are unique and have different characteristics, different tones, different EQ curves, different saturation characteristics. The nerd rabbit hole goes deep, but the point is each tool has its own sound. So why not just set up all your favorite tools? For example, if you're mixing in the box and get all those plugins perfectly dialed in exactly to your tastes, and then just be like on or off, on or off, on or off.

(00:38:43):

And just find the thing where creatively you get inspired when you hear it, that sounds sick. That's all it needs to take. It's a lot of upfront work. But once you get that dialed in, and once you figure that out, guess what? Now you can just focus on being creative. I mean, again, when I'm mixing on my board or if I'm mixing the computer, it's how I've got my board set up. It's on or off. It's like, do I need compression on this? Does it sound better? Yes or no? Okay, I need some work. All right, I'll try a different compressor. Let's patch this one in or No, no, it sounds great. Or you know what? It sounds right with it off, so we're just not even going to use it. So it's such a great workflow and it saves so much monotonous, tedious, unnecessary work where you can just sit there and just be totally creative and just be like, what sounds the best? This ah, option three, that's the magic. That's exciting. Wow. And then you're keeping that momentum going and that's really what's important.

Speaker 1 (00:39:37):

And does that mean that you're never going to have to come up with something new? No, it just means that 80 to 90% of the time, there's certain things you'll do the same way every time. For instance, everybody who mixes metal and re-amp metal produces metal knows that there's a reason for why a block letter 51 50 with a tube screamer on a mesa cab with vintage thirties and an SM 57 will win a shootout against almost anything most of the time. Will it win every time? Nope. No, definitely not every time. But will it win most of the time or find its way onto the record most of the time? Yeah, most of the time. And you can ask any metal mixer except for a few contrarians out there. There's a reason for why that works and that does not take reinventing the wheel. It just works.

(00:40:37):

And so understanding what works and using it and knowing in advance, this is probably going to work, so I may as well already have it good to go will save you from having to try and reinvent the wheel for everything every time. However you got to know if it's working right, you have to be able to hear it and say no. And that's where the training part of it comes in. You have to, just because it worked last time doesn't mean that it's right this time. And that's where your critical ear comes into the equation.

Speaker 2 (00:41:10):

Absolutely. And one of the things that we really focus on in speed mixing is structured training. Now you might be thinking structured training, why would I do that? Well, you think about an athlete or even a guitarist, right? It's like if you want to sweep, pick, alright, aile, you're a guitar player, I'm a guitar player, you don't just pick up a guitar the third week, you've got the guitar and start playing inve covers note for note and then have flawless vibrato. And you have to train these things often for years, many, many, many, many hours of practice over time. These are techniques that have to be learned. Just mixing like, I mean, how many mixes do you think you've critiqued and done crits for at URM by now? 5,000? I mean,

Speaker 1 (00:41:50):

Something like that. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:41:51):

Yeah, it's insane. And I can sit here and I can say out of all of the thousands of other people's mixes that I've listened to that I've provided feedback on, there are certain trends and patterns where I'm like, this is where most people struggle. And this is where most people are weak, and this is where most people, it takes them the longest amount of time to get good. So I'm sitting here thinking as we're doing this, I'm like, those are the things we need to train. So how do we create conditions? And it's kind of like a video game where it's like you might have hypothetical stats for your character, maybe your strength and your dexterity and mixing, maybe you need work on A or B or C, but you're really strong over here. So it's like we need to focus on getting those stats up that are weak.

(00:42:35):

It's holding you back, right? It's holding you back. It's in your way. If you cannot balance properly, if you cannot feel a balanced pocket and know the right types of pockets that are going to work for a song, I don't care how good you can eq, I don't care how good your side chain trick is that you picked up from some YouTube video randomly, it doesn't matter. Your mix is going to suffer. And that is why we train these things because structured training allows us to hyperfocus in context with real songs, not some abstract tutorial that has no relevance towards what we're doing, but it allows us to hyperfocus and really, really, really put pressure on ourself and increase those skills. And those are the same skills. I mean in the real world that I've used to meet insane deadlines, like Joey and I did Attila's guilty pleasure in two and a half days, the band had one note on it, or we did the Holy Guile album and five hours flat, dude, no exaggeration, five hours including notes.

(00:43:35):

And to be able to perform at that level under that kind of deadline and that kind of stress, you have to have that stuff trained. So I do EQ training, I do balance training. When I'm sitting there at night and I'm watching Netflix or whatever and I'm waiting 10 minutes for my wife to get out of the thing and go to the bathroom and clean up or whatever, I'm sitting there on my laptop moving faders around and practicing mixing on my headphones because it's like to a timer. Because honestly, those skills, they translate, they matter, they make a difference. And structured training delivers results. If you do the work, you get the results. It's like imagine me telling you, Hey Al, if you don't practice sweep picking every day for two hours a day, oh you don't need to do it. You'll just figure it out one day. But if I say, Hey, I can't imagine, let me try that analogy again.

Speaker 1 (00:44:26):

No, that's great.

Speaker 2 (00:44:27):

You know what I'm saying? If I say to you, you need to practice sweep picking two hours a day for the next 30 days if you want to sleep pick because I can sweep and you can sweep and that's what it takes and you don't do it. Don't be surprised when you can't sweep pick in 30 days from now and you still suck at it. But if you do the work and you do it as prescribed and you train it, guess what's going to happen? You're going to sit there in 30 days and be like, holy shit, I can sweep. Maybe I'm not as good as Steve VI or Paul Gilbert, but I'm starting to get the hang of this. And

Speaker 1 (00:44:55):

Not just that. To take that analogy a little further or compare it to mixing, if you want to get good at sweep picking and all you do is play songs that have a sweep picking section, say the song is five minutes long and it has a 32nd long solo that has two sweeps in it, and that's what you do. Two hours a day is a song where there's a solo that features a little sweep picking. You might get okay at sweep picking, but what you're going to get really good at is playing a song start to finish, which is really important. However, if you don't actually say, I'm going to work on sweep picking in addition to working on songs, I'm going to drill this technique, you're never going to actually become an expert at it. And so same way with mixing, it's like yeah, if you're mixing songs start to finish only and then there are certain skills that you might spend 5% of your time on or 10% of your time on every time, yes, you will get better at them incrementally, but if you want to see quick improvement quick that's relatively quick compared to how you would've improved before, there's no amount of work that you can do that will make you better at EQ in a day or a week.

(00:46:14):

I mean, you'll be better. You might just not notice how much better until some time has elapsed. But you will get better over time if you just mix. But if you add structured training into it, it's basically like adding steroids to it. You will get better faster for sure. And it can be like you said, you have 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there. It's just the same with sweet picking. If you have to spend two hours a day only working on songs, you also want to get good at sweet picking. You find five minutes here, 10 minutes there, 10 minutes there, and you're getting better at sweet picking. You have to choose to actually do it.

Speaker 2 (00:46:54):

Think about soccer practice, right? When I take my kid to soccer practice, they're not just like, alright, there's a ball in the field. Kids go screw around for two hours. They're like, alright, over here we're going to go run suicides. Now that we're done doing that, we're going to practice this passing drill. Last week we were really weak on this. Now we're going to practice this for the next 30 minutes. And it's like it's all structured training and then they go play the game at the end of the practice and guess what? They play way better and they communicate better. And all of those skills are transferable. So structured training matters. It really, really does. Now, how many people do you think actually do structured training as mixers? One,

Speaker 1 (00:47:32):

Not many. Not enough? Well, more than before,

Speaker 2 (00:47:36):

More speed mixers. No. People who have taken speed mixing

Speaker 1 (00:47:40):

Know I used to do it, dude, I was doing it before I met you. So before we started URMI used to do ear EQ training and I know that, what was it called? Golden ears or something that cd, those CDs you could order back in the day. Is that

Speaker 2 (00:47:57):

Perfect pitch or whatever?

Speaker 1 (00:47:59):

Well, they would give you frequencies and you'd identify the frequencies. That shit's been around for a long time, I think since the nineties. So the idea of having some sort of structured training for stuff involved with audio engineering, we didn't invent that. What we invented are really, really hardcore bootcamp style structured trainings that go beyond just an abstract, oh, I can hear one k.

Speaker 2 (00:48:30):

And they work meaning that the people that actually do them, the testimonials speak for themselves. We have literally a wall of them and the amount of results that they've gotten. People are shocking When people do our 30 and 30 challenge, they're just like, that was insane, but wow, am I better now? You just know you're going to be a badass when you can get through that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (00:48:53):

The structured track, yeah, 30 songs in 30 days, we give you all the multitracks. That is the challenge and that sounds intense and it is intense.

Speaker 2 (00:49:03):

Speed mixing is not designed to be easy. It's designed to get results so you get better at mixing.

Speaker 1 (00:49:09):

But if you've done everything up until that point, and there's one more section we're going to talk about that happens before the 30 and 30, but if you do everything in the course up until that point, you've done six weeks of this training and then you do the 30 and 30, you'll have everything you need under your belt in order to be able to get through it. And in order to get through 30 and 30, you have to be a much more efficient mixer than you were before. I mean a professional, some professionals could get through it, but that's a lot no matter who you are, that's a lot. You will come out on the other side changed for sure. So let's talk about the last thing.

Speaker 2 (00:49:55):

One thing I want to say real quick, okay,

(00:49:57):

The real unexpected benefit of all of this structured training and these challenges is the confidence that it gives you. Because maybe you can relate to this if you're listening to this because anybody who's ever mixed anything knows what this feels like. Maybe you sit down and you second guess your mixed decisions that were totally fine and then you get through it, you go on that chase we were talking about, and then you're just like, what am I even doing? Am I even any good at this? You're always going to find a song that kicks your butt no matter how long you've been mixing. This happens to me all the time. I've been doing this for 20 years plus, and I still have mixes where I open it up, I'm like, do I even know how to mix? Do I even know what I'm doing? What is going on today?

(00:50:33):

It happens and you have that imposter syndrome and you feel like you're confused. And when you go through that stuff, it will boost your confidence and you will know that you can handle pretty much anything that you're going to feel good. It helps you beat that imposter syndrome and you're not going to doubt the decisions you make because you learn to just trust your instinct and be in tune with your gut feelings. And when you're mixing and just let it guide you because you instinctively usually know what the best move is when you're mixing. It's usually our brain that gets in the way and says, well, that can't be right, blah, blah, blah, and screws you up and you know exactly what I'm talking about. Like I said, we've all gone down this rabbit hole in a mix a million times in our lives. It's just something that happens. So when you get

Speaker 1 (00:51:16):

Through this stuff, that's absolutely right, and I think that that's actually where a lot of people slow themselves down is they'll make a decision and then they'll keep on and it'll be fine. They'll be good, it's time to move on, but they won't let themselves move on. They'll just keep on fucking with it, keep on fucking with it. And then that thing we were talking about earlier about your ears only having X amount of time to keep their ability to hear well in your brain, your attention waning over time. They get into these loops of it's not right or is it right? Is it not right? Does it suck? Is it good? Different? It suck is

Speaker 2 (00:51:56):

Good, not better, right? Different, not better

Speaker 1 (00:52:00):

Or worse. They go into this loop of questioning themselves as they're in that loop. Basically the hourglass, the sand is running out in that hourglass of how much time you have left, good quality time where you can make good decisions. It's going while you're running on that hamster wheel, that time is running out for that day and it's good to learn how to stop doing that. And so yes, these challenges force you to stop doing that. And what's amazing is, man, I can't tell you how many times I've dialed a tone and got in it right within like five minutes and just didn't believe it,

Speaker 2 (00:52:41):

Only to never beat it for another three months.

Speaker 1 (00:52:45):

And then 30 minutes later, I'm still trying and it's just getting worse and I'm comparing it to a will Putney tone. I'm like, God damnit. But I had it in five minutes and I didn't trust myself. And these trainings teach you how to trust yourself. You were talking about problems that we've seen in people's mixes from critiquing 5,000 plus mixes over the past 10 years. Well, it's also talking to people, and I've noticed that the amount that people second guess themselves is counterproductive to where

Speaker 2 (00:53:26):

It's incredible.

Speaker 1 (00:53:27):

It's amazing. Yeah. So the last thing that's in this course that we think is not know is kind of, I don't want to say institutional, but such a powerful way to speed up your workflow is to use technology, use modern technology to your advantage. There are all kinds of modern plugins. They started to happen in the past 10 years. I remember track Spacer 2015 ish and then I remember Soothe in 2016 or 17. So somewhere around there, and I guess Lin MB goes way back

Speaker 2 (00:54:13):

Classic. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (00:54:14):

But really intelligent plugins or automated plugins, whatever you want to call 'em. It started to really happen around 10 years ago and some came out back then that are still amazing like track spacer and soThe, but that evolution has not stopped. And what these plugins do, and there's a bunch of them now, is they do things in one step that would've previously taken three or four steps. So they don't mix for you. They're not going to make you hear things better. They're not going to get you to a hundred percent done, but say that you spent forever side chaining stuff or it just took forever to work out some really, really complicated automations when you're trying to, you have keyboards that come into a death metal song and you need to make some space for them only when they're in and then not when they're out or whatever it is.

(00:55:17):

That could take a lot of automation time or some side chaining or whatnot. And tools like Track Spacer make it way easier, or how much time have we spent trying to get symbols or guitars to have just a high end that doesn't enough, but also doesn't sound neutered. You can really tax your ears doing that, and the thing with Soothe is it can help you get a much smoother guitar tone much smoother, symbols much smoother, high end. Obviously if you let it think for you, you could totally destroy and neuter your tones, but if you use it with good taste and some restraint, which you learn through these types of challenges, if you are guiding it, you can shave so much time off of your mix. It's not going to do the work for you, but it can greatly enhance your mix by just freeing up time for you to make other decisions, focus on other things, don't ruin your ears. Trying to find the nasty frequencies in a guitar when there's a plugin that can do it for you most of the time.

Speaker 2 (00:56:35):

Frequency sniper.

Speaker 1 (00:56:37):

Frequency sniper, that's another one. Yeah, that's a URM plugin. That's exactly what it's for. I mean, Snipes frequencies you don't want remove fatigue is pretty damn good at it.

Speaker 2 (00:56:47):

Fatigue or lessens the impact. Yeah. One thing I like about the automated stuff, Al, is that it's really good at kind of giving you a second opinion too, right? Yes. Because you have own personal taste and sometimes you might not hear a 2K spike in guitars because again, we have fatigue and you've been mixing for three hours and you're sitting there and you think you're doing good, and then you throw something like Soothe or Golf OSS on a guitar, and then you're like, oh, damn, I've got this buildup. And then you turn it on and off and you're like, I can't believe I missed that. It's been masking everything in my mix and making it worse. Sometimes those types of tools can give you a different perspective even. So for me, it's almost like sometimes a second set of ears or a second opinion on my mix.

(00:57:27):

It's like going to another doctor and being like, Hey, you're having this issue. Well, here's my interpretation of it. And you can agree or disagree, but at least you have that second opinion. So that's one of the things that I think is really cool about the automated stuff is it kind of gives you a second opinion. So we really go nuts on that in this course. We make some templates that literally I make a couple of templates that literally gets you there 80% of the way. They're a great starting point. We'll call it that very quickly. And then I stress test them on other mixes, which to me is fun. Like mix a song in one genre, make a template, drop it into something completely unrelated, and it still sounds badass to me. That's a testament that you've done a pretty good job. And we go through all these different types of tools and how to use them and all these cool little tricks.

(00:58:14):

There's so many insane little cool track spacer things we talk about that are just not like transient deletion. It's impossible to explain on a podcast, but when you see it, you're just like, oh, that's amazing. It would be so hard to do any other way. But the plugin, you can set it up, put it in a template, drop it in 12 seconds, you can do it, and you can use that technique in your mix and on or off. And to me that's powerful because that saves me time in the real world. And sometimes there are mixes where I'm like, I need more perceived volume out of my drums and I needed to poke through a little bit more, but I don't want to turn them up in terms of volume because I'm already hitting the compressors and et cetera down chain hard as I could possibly ever want to. And I don't want to add more, but I need a little bit more drum push. So sometimes you have little tricks like that that you can use where you can get that perceived extra energy without having to break anything else in your mix. And again, without the automated tools, I mean, I don't even know how long it would take to set something up like that. I can't even imagined it would take hours. I feel

Speaker 1 (00:59:16):

It take a long time. And just so everyone knows, we don't just cover Soothe and Track spacer,

Speaker 2 (00:59:23):

So

Speaker 1 (00:59:23):

We cover track spacer, frequency Sniper, do you have clarify, soothe Gulf, FOSS Bloom sculptor, the Sonal bundle, some AI mastering tools and a few others. So we cover quite a few of the prominent ones. And

Speaker 2 (00:59:38):

I picked all the stuff I thought was coolest that really hits it out of the park. You know what I

Speaker 1 (00:59:43):

Mean? Yeah. By the time we put this out, I'm sure there'll be another one that comes out that we missed. But the point is though, that these are great, great tools and for people that are skeptical, if you've seen NA's Nail the mix and you've seen how he uses an analyzer, there's a lot of people who look down on using an analyzer and mixing. But I think that Ali's nail the mix is the best counter argument for how to use an analyzer properly because he doesn't just blindly do what the analyzer tells him. He uses it as an analyzer to help him hear things that he might have missed, and then he makes decisions accordingly. So some of these tools like Soothe or Frequency Sniper, it's kind of like that, but on steroids because it's not just analyzing, analyzing and then it's doing some work for you. And what I really like about the ones that are happening dynamically is that they're taking into consideration that you're not listening to a static signal.

(01:00:50):

The things change like spikes, frequency spikes change over time depending on what's happening in the song. However, that also is why you can't just set and forget these things because sometimes some of these tools, when the program info, when the, let's say the program material coming through changes goes from super heavy to really quiet, clean part, and it's looking for really heavy guitars or something, it might then think that it's just hearing really messed up heavy guitars and do some really wacky things to those really quiet cleans. So you can't just trust the machine to do the work for you. You have to use your taste. You have to use your better judgment.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):

I mean, that's a really good point I think. Sorry to interrupt you, but I think all good. I really just want to make one statement on this is that these plugins are great, but of course they have limitations. And one thing is they're just code. They don't have taste, they don't feel they need your experience, your judgment, your training, your practice, your ear to guide them and then they can take your skills and they can enhance them. And that's really, I think where they shine is, like I said, it's another opinion and it's also good at enhancing what you have and helping you elevate yourself and become an extension of yourself. It's kind of like if you could take a new tropic, what could help you concentrate? What was that movie where he takes the smart pill and he can concentrate better? Limitless. Yeah. It's like your brain has a limit to how smart you are, but you can enhance that or unlock that a little bit. Now it's like maybe you can retain information for the next two hours better or something like that. So

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):

I feel that that movie, the premise in it is wrong, but well that you only use 10% of your brain, but the idea that you can do more with your brain is absolutely right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):

Yeah, it's an extension. It's like if you can get an extra 10% on your mixing by using some of these tools, why wouldn't you use them?

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):

Yeah, exactly. So you combine everything we talked about from systematizing your mix prep and your mixing, using all these modern tools, training the crap out of your skills, put that all together and on top of that mix a lot of songs. There's no way you're not going to get better. And that's involved in speed mixing two. So if you want to get speed mixing two, it's going to be on sale till October 15th, 2024. If you're listening to this afterwards and you want to get it, just know we're going to open it up again. You could still go to nail the mix.com/speed mixing, and there will be a signup page to get notified of when we open it back up. So this podcast episode is still relevant to you, and by the time it comes back out, there will probably be some updates and new modules in it and stuff.

(01:03:55):

We make updates, but what's included is you get lifetime access to the 115 plus videos. We cover this in Cubase, Reaper and Pro Tools. However, even if you use Logic or Studio One or Cakewalk or whatever, Mixcraft actually, I don't know Mixcraft, but these skills, yeah, these skills will transfer. Maybe it's a different key command for doing something in one of those. Maybe the process is a little different, but the information is transferable. This is universal stuff. We also have weekly instructor-led Zoom calls. So this kind of goes even though you can take it at your own pace after the fact you have lifetime access. The reason that we stop selling it on the 15th is because that's when we start presenting the course. We present it if you were going to an online university class where every week there's something else, there's a new part to it, and therefore we have weekly instructor led Zoom calls where Joel or me and Joel will lead students through some q and a and helping them with problems or elaborating on things from the course.

(01:05:17):

There's also many courses included. There's one on studio business for those of you who are trying to be pros or are pros and want to have a more efficient studio business. We have that module for you. And also we talked a lot about automated mixing tools. So we have an automated mixing tool section inside the course, but then we also have a mini course that deep dives into a ton of those plugins, like lots of cool tips, tricks, best practices. I mean, it's basically like a two hour bonus course just on individual automated mixing plugins. This thing lasts for 10 weeks. I mean it is going to take some time. We include 35 sets of Multitracks, raw multitracks in several genres, some really, really sick artists. All cleared for use in your portfolio. There's 20 plus PDF DF supplements, like a workbook, spreadsheets, templates. There's a private speed mixing Facebook group for students of the course where you can interact with us and other people taking it. It's really, really great to do this with other people. The community is so helpful. Plus you get two months of U arm enhanced and three nail the mix sessions of your choice and a lifetime license to all current URM plugins at the time of this recording. So nail the mix.com/speed mixing, get speed mixing too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):

One thing we should probably mention very quickly is some, you might be wondering what's the difference between this and speed mixing one?

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):

And

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):

Yeah, I mean, okay, so it's important to say that everything in speed mixing one, so you're not missing anything, might not have taken it. Not taking speed mixing one right is in speed mixing two. Okay, so everything but it's all redone completely new. The course is four times longer, way more comprehensive. We go into a lot more of these niche things. For example, there is hardware content, you don't have to watch it, but if you want to go down that rabbit hole and you have hardware, you're going to find, I think some of the things in the workflows invaluable,

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):

Like your rapid recall process

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):

On a console or how to not have to recall on a console, right? Yeah. It's pretty mind blowing for the people that I've shown it to. So we have all of these, sorry, everything is redone. It's four times longer, way more comprehensive. All of the multi-tracks are brand new songs. It's not the same lot we had from last time. It's like these bands are way better, way higher status, way more monthly listeners, better producers. It just like there's some amazing stuff in there and it's just a great, great gamut of stuff. So it's not an update to speed mixing one, this is the next evolution period. And I think anybody taking this is going to agree with that statement.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):

Absolutely. And if you own speed mixing one, there is an upgrade cross-grade price. So it is definitely less expensive than buying it outright. And we want to show our appreciation to those of you who have been with us since the old days. So it's not full price if you already own speed mixing one. And also last thing, Joel, I'm sorry, but if you buy because of this podcast episode, but you have to buy it by October 15th and you have to specifically say that it's because of this podcast episode, send an email to our support, support at URM Academy and we'll know if you bought it because of the podcast episode because we can compare when it came out and when you sent the email and when you bought it. But you can get a free one-on-one with Joel 15 minute. So say you heard it on this podcast, get it before October 15th. See you there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):

And that will be sometime after the course starts.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well after the course starts.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):

See you later everyone. Bye.